the 17th has come and gone...no big deal.....your prediction was wrong. Now what?

Duncan, I don’t know anything about the Saturday the 17th, however read this post carefully, especially the last paragraph. Now click the ‘Signs of the times’ post linked here http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=9985

Wouldn’t now be the time to accept the Palestinian Arab leadership (Abbas and Hamas and everyone in-between) simply does not represent a viable peace partner for Israel?

Wouldn’t now be the time to accept that the ‘vision to a Road Map peace process’ is a failure, and that an alternative option is needed?

Condi Rice, one of the ‘three ribs’ in the bears mouth, feels that the answer to those questions is a resounding ‘NO’. Despite the fact she now admits the “Palestinians” government will never actually implement any peace deal it signs with Israel!

While she, Rice, is insisting direct talks with the Abbas-controlled half of the PA must continue.

CAN WE NOW ALL SEE GODS HAND, ALTHOUGH ‘UNSEEN’ TO THE MANY, IS BRINGING THE END OF THIS ‘VISION’ TO FULFILLMENT.

So Why and to what end?

Hamas will not support any deal that grants Israel any shred of legitimacy or stopping acts of terrorism, and Abbas, who is following the money, is clearly in no hurry to force the Islamists, Hamas, Hezbollah, Syria and Iran into compliance.

Abbas’ true interests in this whole affair should be regarded as a‘red flag’ or should I say a ‘green flag’ that is evidence enough for President Bush and Prime Minister Olmert to seek another way?

The media claims Abbas was trying to “moderate” Hamas so that peace could be achieved, if that was true, why didn’t he recognize Israel and renounce terrorism, the cornerstones of the power-sharing deal he signed in Mecca?

No, what was more important to him was his own party’s insertion into the government to act as a fig leaf for Hamas’ virulent positions, an internal “Palestinian” unity (meaning unity with the Hamas terrorist organization), and thereby giving the international community the opportunity it needed to restart the flow of funds.

For Abbas, it’s about money and power, not peace. For Hamas, it’s about destroying Israel. Turns out their true interests are not in opposition to one another after all.

Rice’s open realization of this makes the President George Bush, US government, lead by the architect of the ‘vision to a Roadmap to Peace’ all THE MORE COMPLICIT IN THE DEATH OF every Israeli by this terrorist, Abbas/Hamas entity that it REFUSES TO END its relationship with.

The ‘dividing time’ continues on to Berlin, Gavrial

[quote name='Gavrial' date='Feb 19 2007, 01:22 PM' post='102648']
Duncan, I don’t know anything about the Saturday the 17th, however read this post carefully, especially the last paragraph. Now click the ‘Signs of the times’ post linked here http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=9985

Wouldn’t now be the time to accept the Palestinian Arab leadership (Abbas and Hamas and everyone in-between) simply does not represent a viable peace partner for Israel?

Wouldn’t now be the time to accept that the ‘vision to a Road Map peace process’ is a failure, and that an alternative option is needed?

Condi Rice, one of the ‘three ribs’ in the bears mouth, feels that the answer to those questions is a resounding ‘NO’. Despite the fact she now admits the “Palestinians” government will never actually implement any peace deal it signs with Israel!

While she, Rice, is insisting direct talks with the Abbas-controlled half of the PA must continue.

CAN WE NOW ALL SEE GODS HAND, ALTHOUGH ‘UNSEEN’ TO THE MANY, IS BRINGING THE END OF THIS ‘VISION’ TO FULFILLMENT.

So Why and to what end?

Hamas will not support any deal that grants Israel any shred of legitimacy or stopping acts of terrorism, and Abbas, who is following the money, is clearly in no hurry to force the Islamists, Hamas, Hezbollah, Syria and Iran into compliance.

Abbas’ true interests in this whole affair should be regarded as a‘red flag’ or should I say a ‘green flag’ that is evidence enough for President Bush and Prime Minister Olmert to seek another way?

The media claims Abbas was trying to “moderate” Hamas so that peace could be achieved, if that was true, why didn’t he recognize Israel and renounce terrorism, the cornerstones of the power-sharing deal he signed in Mecca?

No, what was more important to him was his own party’s insertion into the government to act as a fig leaf for Hamas’ virulent positions, an internal “Palestinian” unity (meaning unity with the Hamas terrorist organization), and thereby giving the international community the opportunity it needed to restart the flow of funds.

For Abbas, it’s about money and power, not peace. For Hamas, it’s about destroying Israel. Turns out their true interests are not in opposition to one another after all.

Rice’s open realization of this makes the President George Bush, US government, lead by the architect of the ‘vision to a Roadmap to Peace’ all THE MORE COMPLICIT IN THE DEATH OF every Israeli by this terrorist, Abbas/Hamas entity that it REFUSES TO END its relationship with.

The ‘dividing time’ continues on to Berlin, Gavrial
[/quo
Gavrial,

I dont disagree that the powers that be are trying to divide the land. I agree this is a bad thing. Daniel tells us that the anti will divide the land for gain. That tells me that condi and the rest will not be able to do it...only the anti christ can pull it off.

Where we differ is, Jesus is not coming back in October o8...not for the second coming. There are many reasons why...for one, the anti (who has not come to power yet) will reign for 42 months. There is not enough months from now til oct 08....your time line is off.

I thought the meetings were scheduled for the 19th thru 21st of Feb, which have not passed without incident as of yet. What's up with the 17th date?

In Christ,

Mike

duncdrewnoah on Feb 19 2007 at 02:18 PM' in post #'102652'

Duncan said, “Where we differ is, Jesus is not coming back in October 08...not for the second coming. There are many reasons why...for one, the anti (who has not come to power yet) will reign for 42 months. There is not enough months from now till Oct 08....your time line is off.”

Understanding the ‘vision of 2300 days’ to most is still like a sealed book because the EMPTY WORDS of traditional teachers and prophecy gurus have so permeated and brainwashed them that they say, “I am unable to open my eyes because THIS IS TOO HARD TO CONTEMPLATE, or my teacher HASN’T TOLD ME THIS, so it can not be true?”

The one with the “seventieth week” interpretation will say “I WON’T LOOK AT THIS, I want to stay blind!”

The “2300 day vision” is the vision of a ‘Roadmap to Peace’, it is as a sealed book that has been given and opened on this forum, telling those to read it carefully and prayerfully.

Do you still say, “I am unable to open my eyes because THIS IS TOO HARD TO CONTEMPLATE, or my teacher HASN’T TOLD ME THIS, so it can not be true?”

Your 42 month question:
The ‘vision of 2300 days’ to divide God’s land is the “time, times and dividing time”, look at these verses, what you have here is a transcription preference of the English translators, the two texts in Daniel 7 and Daniel 12 use ‘time, times and dividing or half time it’s the Revelation texts that vary.

Two verses, Revelation 12;6 & 14, describe the same event using different wording, Daniel 7:25 says the ‘saints will be given over to the antichrist during the “dividing times” while Revelation 13:5-7 it was ‘given unto him to make war with the saints 42 months’.

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and SHALL WEAR OUT THE SAINTS of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until A TIME AND TIMES AND THE DIVIDING OF TIME.

Daniel 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and swore by him that lives for ever that it shall be for A TIME, TIMES, AND A HALF; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there A THOUSAND TWO HUNDRED AND THREESCORE DAYS.

Revelation 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for A TIME, AND TIMES, AND HALF A TIME, from the face of the serpent.

Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue FORTY AND TWO MONTHS. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given unto him TO MAKE WAR WITH THE SAINTS,

No Duncan, we are in the “time, times and dividing of God’s land time”, it continues in Berlin on Wednesday, thanks for responding and may the Lord bless you richly, Gavrial

you quoted rev:11-3 about the two witnesses...where are they? this is just one of many places that i just dont see how your timeline makes any sense....they are to be here 42 months but yet you say Jesus is coming back next yr...there are no 2 witnesses going around preaching....they are not here yet.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree and then when we are still here in oct o8 or in heaven and Jesus has not returned yet. You can start looking for a new timeline...If you are right, Ill see you there.

'duncdrewnoah' on 'Feb 20 2007 at 08:46 AM' post #'102775'

Duncan said, you quoted rev:11-3 about the two witnesses...where are they?

As stated above “the two texts in Daniel 7 and Daniel 12 use ‘time, times and dividing or half time it’s the Revelation texts that vary.”

The ‘two witnesses WILL APPEAR DURING THIS ‘time, times and dividing time’, just because they haven’t appeared in the first 1703 days does not mean they will not appear in the last 597!

Duncan, Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 are ‘sister chapters’ so to speak, the ‘vision of 2300 days’ is in Daniel 8:14, notice in verse (16) a voice asks Gabriel to MAKE SURE Daniel understands the ‘vision’, then telling Daniel in (17), “the time of the end shall be the vision” then in (19) emphatically stating twice with different wording, “know what shall be in the last end of the indignation” and “for at the time appointed the end shall be”.

We know God has 7 feasts, not Israel’s or Jewish feasts, but HIS FEASTS and are His ‘appointed times’, with Yom Kippur, the holiest.

However here’s a point that is also overlooked. As Gabriel continues to give understanding to Daniel, he says in (26) “And what was said in the vision of the evenings and mornings is true. And hide the vision (of verse 13-14) for it is after many days.”

The vision of the “evening” is Chapter 7, see verse (2) and the “morning” is Chapter 8, see verse (2). The “2300 day vision” WAS HID UNTIL June 24, 2002, it is in the last end of indignation. The world being involved with ‘dividing’ His land, is drawing up His indignation.

Another ‘tradition of man’ has been uncovered, as shown above this whole chapter is an end time prophecy that started in 1991, with the invasion of Iraq and has nothing to do with Alexander the Great, you can possibly use chapter 11 with him but I believe the ‘old scholars’ not knowing or because the book was still sealed, threw the times of the ‘great one’ in. This is a today prophecy.

Duncan said, “I guess we will just have to agree to disagree”

I have a real problem with the ‘traditional’ agreeing and disagreeing’ II Timothy 2:15 tells us To study to show OURSELVES approved unto God. Are we being willfully ignorant by trusting in what a prophecy writer or Pastor or teacher says?

That 15th verse in Revelation 22 that is 7 from the end of the book should be a MAJOR CONCERN to the leaders and writers of every lecture, sermon or book ever published, myself included!

I know we are to REPENT daily for our transgressions and seek His face. However in true repentance, let’s say a book has been written that you know has been disproved, and wonder if the author has not REPENTED because of fear of public condemnation or vile emails, that monetary gifts will cease?

Unless they REPENT they will be left ‘outside the city gates’ because they did not come forth openly and repent before their congregants or subscribers’ through letter or speech.

So, with that said, I try to be very careful with what I say, knowing that I STILL SE THROUGH A GLASS DARKLY that God reveals in His own time. I look back on old postings and FIND ERRORS that I have made, but I seek forgiveness by asking Him.

He is ever faithful and continues to ‘lighten the glass’ as I ask, seek and knock for wisdom, counsel and skill in understanding. Amen

We cannot force God’s hand, if nothing happens Wednesday, it is HIS WILL. With that said, the Book of Revelation is written and the timelines can’t be changed, the Book of Daniel is now unsealed and Daniel chapter 8 is being counted down before our very eyes.

Do not remain wilfully ignorant but "study to show thyself approved", and see the ‘2300 day vision’ come alive and run with it. It is His spirit and His spirit alone that will convict you IF this 'vision' is true.

Giving Him all the glory, honor and praise Gavrial

I thought the two witnesses weren't just supposed to appear within a particular time period, but minister for a full 3 1/2 year time period that would be evident to everyone. Dropping back out of discussion now . . .

Shy1 thanks for this post and what I am going to say is in not anyway to degrade or condemn you. What has been stated throughout this thread, the Lord, in His perfect timing has brought your post to the forefront!
Here's a example of how strong traditions can be, with this one of the favorites that the many 'false teachings' the 'prophetic gurus or false teachers' have foisted upon their congregants or subscribers.

Some of you may remember that it was and only was a 'seven year tribulation'?

By not obeying II Timothy 2:15, we take this as absoulute truth, when the Book of Daniel and all the major and minor prophecies say likewise.

They will be held accountable. Again God's spirit will cut asunder and open the lies with the truth.

Thank you Shy1 and no, don't drop out of the discussions and remember you are loved by ALL on this forum.

May God bless you in these days ahead. Gavrial

But Rev 11:3 clearly says the two witnesses will prophecy 1260 days. Not 500 or 590 or whatever..it says 1260. So if we both AGREE that they are not here yet, even if they appear today, this cannont be fufilled by your timeline. Either the Bible is wrong and they wont prophecy 1260 days or you are wrong and the end cannot be oct 08.

I don't think anyone will recognize the 2 witnesses, because, like Gavrial said, they have been trusting in traditions of men. They can't see the "forest" for the "trees".

Duncan don't let the traditions of men delude you, go threw this whole thread again, line by line, look at these two verses as a good of example of what you are expounding on!

Here we have the same event being transcribed or translated TWO DIFFERANT WAYS, Revelation 12:6 has the same wording as your TWO WITNESSES verse but Revelation 12:14 says, time, times and half a time.

Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there A THOUSAND TWO HUNDRED AND THREESCORE DAYS.

Revelation 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for A TIME, AND TIMES, AND HALF A TIME, from the face of the serpent.

I'm sticking with "the time, times and dividing time" as first recorded in Daniel, remembering also how the Catholic Church feared the Book of Revelation, so the translators may have been a little nervous. Trust Daniel, that is where the 2300 day vision counts down from.

With that said, the 'time, times and dividing of time' I believe are the correct translation. Remember "sudden destruction" comes. Wilfull ignorance will cause many to take the mark, heed the leading of God's holy spirit. Much love Gavrial

forests and trees

Here's an interesting excerpt from a writing by Ellis Skolfield (www.ellisskolfield.com) on the two witnesses. This is part of the pdf file "Chapters 1-9", seen here: http://www.ellisskolfield.com/downloadable-books.shtml

It throws another interpretation in the mix by showing how these events have played themselves out over the last 2000 years, rather than bunched up in a seven-year or shorter time period. As a preview, Ellis shows below how it is exactly 1260 years from 688 A.D. to 1948 (day=year principle).

This may paste in a little awkwardly, but the info will still make one ponder the possible implications.

Two Witnesses
CHAPTER 6
Can a woman forget her sucking child,
that she should not have compassion
on the son of her womb?
Yea, they may forget,
yet will I not forget thee.
ISA 49:15
AS already discussed, Revelation is not a mystery, but Jesus.
solution of one (Rev 1:1). Consequently, we can.t go to that book
with our doctrines in place and expect to learn what Jesus may
have there for us. The Two Witnesses of Rev 11:3-7 are good
examples of why. Most believe these two witnesses to be a couple
of Old Testament saints like Enoch and Elijah, but they might be
someone else entirely:
Rev 11:3 ... and I will grant authority to my two witnesses,
and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days,
clothed in sackcloth..
Taking the day-year principle of Eze 4:5-6 into consideration,
those two witnesses would have to witness for 1260 years. No one
in this age lives that long, so who can they be?
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two
candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Hummm ... olive trees and candlesticks. What can those figures
mean? Unless the Lord.s Two Witnesses are a pair of real elderly
fruit-bearing olive trees and a couple of really ancient, oil-dripping
candlesticks, then, like it or not, we are dealing with figurative
60 The False Prophet
1 Hermeneutics is the science of interpretation, especially of the Scriptures. The
branch of theology that deals with biblical exegesis.
2 Candlesticks and olive trees are used figuratively in Zec 4, but the figures within
that chapter were defined for us as things that existed during Zechariah.s time (the
Jewish leader Zerubbabel being one of them). So on the basis of the definitions in
Zec 4, could Zerubbabel and .the two anointed ones. be the Two Witnesses of Rev
11? Not very likely since he died about 2500 years ago. We see no end-time refer-
ence to a personage like Zerubbabel in the New Testament, and furthermore
Revelation does not call the two witnesses of the Christian Era .anointed ones..
However, since Zechariah.s two .anointed ones. are not clearly identified, they
might possibly be an OT reference to the Two Witnesses in Revelation 11.
language. So let.s see if we can find biblical definitions for olive
trees and candlesticks.
To sort these figures out we probably need to apply one of the
rules of hermeneutics1. Now, hermeneutics is not a discipline we
play games with to fit our doctrines. It is a sound study of how to
interpret either the spoken word or a written document. Hermen-
eutics has some excellent, time-tested rules. Among them is the
rule of .scriptural adjacency.. That rule states: When you read
something you don.t understand, first study the surrounding text,
then the chapter, then the book in which that chapter appears,
then the testament that contains that book, and finally, relate the
verse to the whole Bible. That is one of the rules, and it.s a very
good one. In other words ...
We don.t go to the Old Testament for definitions of New
Testament figures when there are New Testament definitions
that fit perfectly! 2
In Rev 11:4 quoted above, the Two Witnesses of the Christian Era
are described as olive trees and candlesticks. To find the correct
definition for those figures, we should find the closest contextual
address which explains them. Lo and behold, right in Revelation
we find candlesticks defined:
Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest
in My right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The
seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the
seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven
churches.
Two Witnesses 61
1 Jer 11:16 The Lord called your name, .A green olive tree, beautiful in fruit and
form;. With the noise of a great tumult He has kindled fire on it, And its branches
are worthless.
Isa 17:6 Yet gleanings will be left in it like the shaking of an olive tree, Two or
three olives on the topmost bough, Four or five on the branches of a fruitful tree,
Declares the Lord, the God of Israel.
Isa 24:13 For thus it will be in the midst of the earth among the peoples, As the
shaking of an olive tree, As the gleanings when the grape harvest is over.
Hos 14:6 His shoots will sprout, And his beauty will be like the olive tree, And his
fragrance like Lebanon.
Right in Revelation 1, candlesticks are defined as churches. If
candlesticks are churches in Rev 1, then guess what? Candlesticks
are still churches in Rev 11. The only way they would not be
Churches is if the Lord God Himself changed the symbolic
meaning of that word somewhere between Rev 1:20 and Rev
11:4. No change of definition appears there (or anywhere else in
Scripture for that matter) so the candlesticks of Rev 11:4 are
churches. That interpretation is not the product of some clever
theologian.s overactive imagination. Candlesticks are churches
because the Bible itself defines them as such.
So, if the seven candlesticks of Rev 1 are seven churches, what
do you suppose the two candlesticks of Rev 11 might be? Why,
two churches of course. But if the Two Witnesses are only two
churches, which churches are they? Probably every denomination
in the world would like to believe it is one of the Two Witnesses
(with the rest of Christendom being heretics, of course), but God.s
churches of the Christian Era are far broader than man.s sectarian
restrictions, and the Olive Trees figure positively identifies who
they are.
Still applying the principle of scriptural adjacency, we first try
for a definition of olive trees in Revelation and then in the rest of
the New Testament. Four times in the Old, and twice in the New,
Israel is defined as an olive tree.1 Old Testament verses are
included in footnote, but we still don.t use Old Testament
62 The False Prophet
definitions to define New Testament figures when there are New
Testament definitions that fit perfectly:
Rom 11:17 And if some of the [Jewish] branches be broken
off, and thou [the Gentile church], being a wild olive tree,
wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the
root and fatness of the olive tree.
Rom 11:24 For if thou [the Gentiles] wert cut out of the
olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary
to nature into a good olive tree [the Jews]: how much more
shall these [the Jews], which be the natural branches, be
grafted into their own olive tree?
Revelation is a New Testament book, and a New Testament
definition for olive trees appears in Romans 11. According to that
whole chapter, the Gentile church is one olive tree, and the Jewish
people are the other. As a result ...
One witness is the Jewish people
and the other witness is the Gentile church!
If we just accept the scriptural definitions for olive trees and
candlesticks, we are not left with a lot of doctrinal options. Take
a realistic look at history. The nation of Israel could not have
maintained its identity through nineteen centuries of dispersion,
under constant persecution, were it not for the protecting hand of
the Lord our God. The Bible itself affirms it. Listen to what
Scripture says:
Jer 31:35-37 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for
a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the
stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the
waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: If those
ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the
seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me
for ever. Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be
measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out
beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that
they have done, saith the LORD.
Two Witnesses 63
1 Gen 17:7 speaks of an unconditional everlasting covenant with the physical seed
of Abraham. Lev 26:44-45 shows that Israel.s restoration was not to be conditional.
Isa 11:11 speaks of a second restoration of the Jews. Isa 26:20-27:1 speaks of a
final hiding of the children of Israel followed by Satan.s complete judgment. Isa
27:12-13, in context with the above, speaks of a final re-gathering of Israel. Jer
30:4-8 speaks of the time of Jacob.s trouble and future restoration. Jer 30:18-24
states that a restoration for the tents of Jacob will take place in the latter days, i.e.
not the first restoration of 536BC. Jer 31:35-37 speaks of the permanent nation of
Israel. Jer 33:24-26 is a definitive unconditional covenant with Jacob.s descen-
dants. Eze 16:60-63 speaks of an unconditional everlasting covenant with the Jews.
Eze 37:1-28 speaks of an unconditional future restoration of Israel, followed closely
by Armageddon in Exe 38-39. Hos 11:9-10 speaks of a future restoration of Israel
from the West. Joe 3:1-3 predicts the restoration of Judah, followed by Arma-
geddon. Amo 9:11-15 speaks of an Israel restored to the land. Zec 8:8 speaks of a
post-exilic, unconditional restoration of the Jews to Jerusalem and the land. Zec
10 and 12 are more prophecies of a future restoration of the Jews. Zec 14 speaks
of Armageddon, with the Jews in Jerusalem. Luk 21:24 speaks of a dispersion, the
time of the Gentiles, and a restoration following. Rom 11:11 states that the Jews
have not fallen so as to be lost. Rom 11:17 states that only some of the branches
were broken off. Rom 11:17 states that the church was grafted in among the Jews.
Rom 11:28 states that the gospel-age Jews are still elect. Rom 11:29 states that
God.s calling of the Jews is irrevocable. Rev 7:4-9 speaks of the 12 tribes of Israel
in the Christian Era. Rev 12:1-6 speaks of Israel in the Christian Era. Rev 15:3 is a
passage primarily about the Christian Era; there are two songs, one for the Jews,
one for the Gentile church.
2 Simply stated, Replacement Theology is the belief that the Church, as adopted
Israel, has totally replaced the physical seed of Abraham and that God is
completely finished with the Jews of the Christian Era. This view holds that during
this era, the Church is all the Israel there is. The Scriptures cited in the preceding
footnote, plus Rom 11:15, stand directly against such a doctrine.
Our eternal Heavenly Father has not forgotten those words.
He stated right there that the children of Israel would be a nation
before Him forever, so He has remembered His chosen people all
along. The Lord.s plans for the physical seed of Israel throughout
all time, including the Christian Era, are recorded in too many
Scriptures to ignore.1
Replacement theology2 notwithstanding, from the multitude
of verses cited in the footnote, it appears that the Lord never
intended to forget the physical seed of Israel. Let me tell you how
important that is. If the Jews could not trust the promises God
made to them in the Old Testament, how can the Church trust the
promises God made to us in the New? It.s comforting to know,
despite man.s doctrines to the contrary, that our God is an
absolutely Holy God who keeps His Word in eternity.
64 The False Prophet
1 Since there have been Hebrew believers all the way back to Abraham.s time, and
the Church has existed since Pentecost, why do the 1260 days start in 688 AD?
Before that date, both Jew and Christian were free to worship in Jerusalem, even
on the temple mount itself. After 688 the Moslems persecuted the Christians and
Jews and drove them out of the land. That is when the most final of all the
dispersions of the Jews took place. By now we should begin to get the picture.
God.s Word is eternal, and regardless of what nation ruled in the Holy Land, that
old temple site was always of inestimable importance to the Lord.
2 Eze 20:35 .And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people,. shows the
Gentile nations to be the wilderness.
Psa 33:11 The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the
thoughts of his heart to all generations.
But if the Two Witnesses are two churches, when are they
going to witness? If we stand by the day-year principle, they
would have to witness for 1260 years:
Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and
they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore
days.
The time of the Two Witnesses cannot come after the time of
the Gentiles because Jesus told us there would be only ONE
generation following 1967: .This generation [after the time of the
Gentiles] will not pass away until all things are fulfilled. (Luk
21:24, 32). A generation cannot be over 70 years (Psa 90:10), and
is usually considered to be 40 years, so we have to look back in
history for these 1260 years. The author could find only one 1260
year time period that had any spiritual significance at all during in
the whole Christian Era:1
1948AD - 1260 = 688 AD and the Dome of the Rock!
And this fits history perfectly! As of 1948, the Jews are no
longer witnessing in the nations. The Abomination that maketh
Desolate was set up in 688, and the Jews were driven into the
.wilderness. of the nations at that time.2 Now, 1260 years later,
there is a new autonomous nation of Israel, and the Jews are back
in the Holy Land again. So the Jewish people are one of the Two
Witnesses of the Christian Era.
Two Witnesses 65
1 The National Council of Churches (to which your own church might belong)
joined the World Council of Churches in 1948. That organization has a declared
goal of causing social change rather than teaching the gospel of Jesus Christ. That
is what .Liberation Theology. is all about. It is reported that through them,
millions of dollars from mainline denominational churches (your tithes included)
have gone to buy guns to support various third-world insurgent .liberation fronts..
As a result, it appears that the Gentile church has fallen into apostasy. As one
indicator of church conditions, elders and deacons within mainline churches have
become occultists and satanists or are into New Age.
THE OTHER WITNESS
We can see 688 to 1948 as the time of Jewish witness, but
what about the second witness, the Church? How can the church.s
time of witness be over since we are still here? Well, look at what
has happened to the Church since 1948. Most Christian homes
have a Bible, but few Christians still read them or continue to
witness to the lost. The immorality, involvement in the occult and
satanism in the western nations has mushroomed since 1948, and
the church has done little to slow the decay. As a result of our
apathy and questionable lifestyles that followed, much of the
Gentile church has fallen into apostasy.
Most churches in this country are terminally ill, many have
already fallen away, and Europe is far worse. Many are beyond
reach, .the sin unto spiritual death. (1 Jo 5:16). Since our battle
is really spiritual, one is inclined to wonder if the coming destruc-
tion of the visible Church may not be more spiritual than physical.
If it is, we are frighteningly close to that hour:1
Rev 11:7 And when they [the Two Witnesses] shall have
finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the
bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall
overcome them, and kill them.
One way or another, in the final hours of this age, the Two
Witnesses are going to be destroyed. Read Rev 11:7 in the original
Greek or in any translation you like. All predict the end of the
visible Church. How can that be? Didn.t Jesus promise that the
gates of Hell would not prevail against His church? Yes, but the
66 The False Prophet
true Church that remains isn.t all those big buildings out there, it.s
only a remnant now... a few hairs hidden in a hem of the Lord.s
garment (Eze 5:3).
For the first time since the invention of the printing press,
books on astrology, satanism, and the occult are outselling the
Bible. Truth has fallen in the street (Isa 59:14), and the
consciences of our people have been seared as with a branding
iron (1Ti 4:2). This will eventually lead to a worldwide rejection
of the Bible and of the Lord. As the spiritual decay deepens, a
ruthless and devastating evil will be unleashed upon this planet,
and it will come with an intensity unknown since the flood. It has
already begun.

GRAPH NUMBER 9
The Two Witnesses
Rev 11:3-4 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy
a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the
two olive trees, and the two Candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

688AD 1948AD
Dome of the Rock The New nation of Israel

1948AD - 1260 Days = 688.66AD

Note: Before 688, both Christians and Jews could freely worship in Jerusalem, and
on the temple mount. They were not prophetically in the nations until the Moslems
made it unsafe for them to worship in that city. That is why the time of the Two
Witnesses began in 688.
What is a true Church to do when conditions become unbearable?
Later in this book, you will read how we may become united with
Two Witnesses 67
the faithful Jews, to stand with them in steadfast array against the
enemies of the Lord:
Isa 11:13-14 The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the
adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy
Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim. But they shall fly
upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west; they
shall spoil them of the east together.
That verse may not seem applicable to a true Church today, but
its relevance will be explained in later chapters.

Thanks. Let me know what your take is on this.

In Christ,

Mike

Wow! that is very believable indeed. I made mention in another thread of the date 688 A.D. based on my own independent research. I had never read this.





Here are a couple of threads where I threw some ideas together. This doesn't go against Gavrial's timeline necessarily because I believe it is all linked. God's wisdom is described by Paul as "manifold" so there may be several interlocking timelines involved as well.



http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...amp;#entry95961



http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...ost&p=99533







http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...ost&p=95956

A brother in Jesus Christ, awhile back had invited me to a forum.....I have read some of his topics.....His insight is very good!.....Today< read another one of his topics, which I cannot resist posting it here.......I believe that our brother in Jesus....is right on target ................................................................................................................................................................................... Hi bill, I appreciate the questions...

1. How do you know the sacrifices restart on day 220?

I determined that from Dan 8 of the 2300 days of the sacrifices being resumed, stopped, the temple defiled,....before the defilers, the AC and the AOD are removed. 2520days - 2300days = day 220.


2. Why do you have the AOD occurring before the middle of the Tribulation or 1260 days?

Because in Dan 12:11-12, there are 1290 days and 1335 days measured from the time the AOD is setup to be worshipped. The long of those two the 1335th days, it says blessed is he that remains - faithful IMHO.... for they will be rescued on the day that Jesus returns which ends the 2520 days.

3. If the Jews are protected for a time, times and half a time or 3 1\2 years shouldn't that start at the 1260 mid-way mark?

No, there is a specific reason that the expression a time, times and half times in not EXACTLY the 1260 days. That reason is that in Revelation 12:6 the Jews are in the wilderness, a spiritual wilderness, nourished by the two witnesses feeding them the world of God during that first half of the tribulation period. Revelations 12:6 says exactly 1260 days.... which leaves 1260 days, the second half of the seven years, that they are
not in that spiritual wilderness. So, the Jews will become Christians, speaking as a group, with exactly 1260 days left. Them being Christians from the 1260 mid point to the end agrees with what you are saying, Bill. (it is on the chart near the bottom, just above the yellow).

The time, times, and a half time, though, is the time that they are protected from Satan after his being kicked down to earth....woe to the inhabinants of the earth. That focus is a little different from them being Christians....which I agree with you that they are Christians for the 1260 days.

In Revelation 12:7, the war in heaven occures just after that exact 1260 days of the first half of the seven years. We don't know how long that war lasts, could be a few hours, minutes, or days.....we just don't know..... but the result is that there is a GAP just after the 1260 days exact mid-point that Satan finds himself here on tera firma.

Since that GAP eats into the 1260 days of the second half... the expression of a time, times, and a half times is used...in Rev 12:14 of how long the Jews are protected from Satan's wrath.

4. When you say the vial and bowl judgments start at 1260 don't you mean the trumpet and bowl(vial) judgments?

Yeah, I got that wrong. Thanks.

5. How do you know the judments begin at 1260 days?

Because the two witnesses complete their ministry at the exact mid-point, when they are killed. Just prior to day 1185, the Antichrist is killed and resurrected, there will be an effort to kill the two prophets. It is during that time that the two prophets will send the plagues....stoppint the rain, etc. of Revelation 11. Those plagues are not part of the trumphet and vial judgments.

The Antichrist beast - beast is the designation in Rev 11:7 of the AC to denote that he has already ascended from the bottomless pit when he kills the two prophets, as it says making war against them.

In Revelation 13:4 the world says who is able to make war against the beast..... and just after that passage it says the beast rules for 42 months. So it appears to me that the Antichrist had just killed the two prophets right at the exact midpoint.

Three days later the two prophets come back alive - the world which had been celebrating their death is sent into shock..... and there is a big earthquake the same hour killing 7000. That is the first installment to the judgements that God pronounces over the next three and a half years... until the world see the sign of Jesus coming in the heavens... because in Matthew 24:29 it says immediately after the tribulation of those days, the world will see the sign of the Son of Man. See my chart, of when the trumphets and vials end.

6. You have the AC ressurrected before the mid-way point but Satan being cast down after the 1260 days. How do you know it isn't Satan coming into the AC that ressurrects him as in the Left Behind Series?

The Left Behind Series is flawed in that regard. Satan does not incarnate the Antichrist. We know this because of two reasons.... (1) at the end when Jesus returns, the AC beast is cast alive into the lake of fire....while Satan goes to a different place the bottomless pit. (2) in Revelation 16:13 the three frogs, the seductive evil spirits that convince the world's leaders team up to stop Jesus's return, come out of the mouth of (1) the beast (2) the false prophet (3) the dragon - Satan.

I listend to an Audio version of the Left Behind series, and it was very glaring to me that Lahaye tried to make up for his error of Satan incarnating the AC, by saying TWO of the three frog evil spirits came out of the AC.... and one out of the false prophet. His story line was in error... and I think he was trying to salvage a lot of work.

7. How do you know the signs in the sun, moon and stars occurs 45 days before Jesus returns?

There is some sort of huge actions that makes the armies of the world stop attacking the AC in Daniel 11. Well, first why are they attacking him anyway? IMHO, it will be because initially they will buy into his claim of being god....
but as the real God of heaven is slamming the AC's world and followers with one judgment after another.... their confidence that the Antichrist is god will wane... and they will rebel against him.

However, while they are battling the AC there in the middle east, with the AC winning btw, Daniel 8 says he can not be broken by human hand..... that's when the heavens will peel back... and the world will see the Sign of the Son of Man in the heavens.

Needless to say that will be a surreal sight....the world of the 666ers will panic.... because for one thing Jesus's garments will be soaked in blood.... of all of the tribulation saints that they have martyred.

That is when the AC, the False, and the Satan - who will be incarnating the AOD statue at that time which speaks and breaths, Revelation 13:15, convince the world leaders to unify their forces already in the middle east at armageddon and march down to Jerusalem, not only to stop Jesus's return, but to wipe out the Jews held captive there so that
God's promise to rescue the Jews couldn't be fulfilled... giving the victory to the AC and Satan, in their twisted logic.

It takes some time to get those armies and all of the weaponry, mobilized and in movement.... that is why there is the 45 days... the 1335th day - 1290 days of Daniel 12:11-12

Okay, I hope that I was clear. If you have some more questions, let me know. I would appreciate it if you go back and look at my chart having read some of my rationale.

Peace,

Doug L. ...........................................reposted by benny

bump

Hi Lemuel, sorry for not responding but this has been answered several times on this forum, the ‘traditions of men’ are again the culprits. To keep your eyes off the ‘truth’ so you will be unaware as the day the ‘SUDDEN DESTRUCTION” nears.

Simplicity is the key, as we are told in 2 Corinthians 11:3;

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Let’s take a "simple" look at what is said about this "knoweth no man" quotation, so often misinterpreted. We must not overlook the preceding statement or we will miss the simplicity of Yeshua’s words! Then we can easily know just what "day" is being spoken of.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, BUT my words shall not pass away.
36: BUT OF THAT DAY AND HOUR knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Mark 13:31: Heaven and earth shall pass away: BUT my words shall not pass away.
32: But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

The simplicity is this; Gods word WILL NOT PASS AWAY heaven and earth WILL, and is a day sometime NEAR THE END OR AT THE END of the millennial reign of Yeshua.

Now we ask where is "that day" found?

II Peter 3:10: But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Revelation 21:1; And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Again, simply put, the "day and hour knoweth no man" is THE day GOD destroys HEAVEN AND EARTH and the new one comes!

Where all of the supposition comes from surrounding the return of Yeshua and this passage shows us that we are under the ‘strong deluding’ spell of the ‘traditions of men’. God gave simple instructions, perhaps we would be better off to heed them.

Deuteronomy 4:2; You shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall you diminish ought from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Proverbs 30:5-6: 5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Sticking to the simplicity of His Word, eliminates all of the explanations that seem to add more than is truly there.
The ‘traditions of men’ have become lies, Revelation 22:15 says to the liars and those “loving and making” them, that they will be left outside the ‘city gates’!

Unless they REPENT and come to the truth and we adhere to II Timothy 2:15 and not trust on the teachings of men. Search the scriptures, His word is true.

Giving Him the glory, gavrial

so now we are at feb 26th and nothing has happened....so all that feb 21st or 19th or whenever stuff was wrong. correct?

[quote name='duncdrewnoah' date='Feb 26 2007, 12:14 PM' post='103512']


Duncan asked, "so now we are at feb 26th and nothing has happened....so all that feb 21st or 19th or whenever stuff was wrong. correct?"

Duncan I'm not quite sure what you are asking here, but if it is in regard to weather or storm events, I and no one else can 'FORCE GOD'S HAND'.

The book 'Eye to Eye' is a documented account of events happening whenever the 'dividing of Gods land' is brought into question.

If nothing happened so be it! What I will tell you today is the 'vision of 2300 days' has 592 days left. Get your house in order, destruction cometh suddenly.

May God richly bless you Duncan and everyone on this forum including myself as WE continue to study to show ourselves approved. Gavrial

what happens in 592 days?

LemuelReyes on Feb 28 2007, at 4:29 AM' in post 3 103771
asked, "what happens in 592 days"?

The 'vision of 2300 days' has 592 days left. Get your house in order, destruction cometh suddenly.

A recap:

The President scheduled June 18, 2002 to announce his 'vision'
a.) terrorist attack in Jerusalem killed 19 Israelis

President rescheduled it for June 19
a.) another terrorist attacked killed 7 in Jerusalem

'Vision' of Roadmap to Peace announced at a ceremony from Whitehouse on June 24, 2002
a.) Daniel 8:13-14 '2300 day vision began

January 4, 2006 and 1290 days from June 24, 2002
a.) recipient of Roadmap vision' Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon had massive stroke fulfilling Daniel 12:11
b.) is still in a comatose state this very day

October 9, 2008, 591 days from now, BOTH 'VISIONS END' ,its the 'Day of Atonement' the sanctuary is cleansed!! The millenial reign of YESHUA BEGINS!

etc, etc, and etc (there's more)

Lemuel, go back at reread other posts for more information

Have a blessed day Gavrial

Gaviel I have a question for you...

How you sure that this is not just more preparation for times to come yet? I am not making light of the times of preparedness, I am truly wanting to know why you are so sure that this is the final "TIME."

Please keep it short and simple.....

Thanks!

Pamela' on 'Feb 28 2007, at 10:10 AM' in post #'103807' said, 'Gaviel I have a question for you...

Are you sure that this is not just more preparation for times to come yet? I am not making light of the times of preparedness, I truly want to know why you are so sure that this is the final "TIME."

Please keep it short and simple....."

Thanks! Hi Pamela,
I love your picture of the ‘little kitty’ under the protection of the ‘big dog’ that’s a parallel of you being under God’s wings! The wing of His angels read Psalm 91: 11-16

Pam,

I am sure because I have taken the vision of Habakkuk 2:2 believing it is the 2300 day vision of Daniel 8:13-14 that began on June 24, 2002 when the President announced his ‘vision’ of a Roadmap to Peace to ‘divide God’s land’ with a Palestinian state.

This is the “Covenant with death and hell” of Isaiah 28:15, it is the ‘Abomination that is causing Devastation’ in the regions surrounding Israel. When the land is divided and it will be (Daniel 11:39) by the antichrist, the people in Israel will flee into the wilderness.

In Matthew 24:15 Yeshua told us “MAKE SURE WE UNDERSTAND”. “Preparation for times to come yet” is quickly slipping away, I believe this time between Purim March 3, 2007 and Passover April 2, 2007 will be critical. (in preperation of spiritual strengthening)

As I have stated before, it is the count of the ‘DAYS OF THE ‘SIXTH’ TRUMPET that hold the key, so to speak, as to how much preparedness time we have. Most scholars believe it is a literal “year, month, day and hour or 397 days.

If that is true that would bring you back to the end of August 2007 then taking 5 months off for the ‘fifth’ trumpet brings us back EXACTLY TO Passover, April 2, 2007!!

With that said, we can see the next 33 days may be very volatile. If the day count of the ‘sixth’ trumpet is lets say ‘just a unknown day, then we may have a leeway (6 mo.) till the fall feasts in September, however I will be watching closely the days ahead, if I hear something important I’ll post it here.

Pamela, just remember, you are like that ‘little kitty’ you are UNDER HIS WINGS.

Much, much love Gavrial

Gavrial,

I find it very interesting that we will have an eclipse at purim. however, God seems to have used these in the past as signs and warnings, not something for that exact time. Like during rosh hashanna of 05. Total solar eclipse in mid east-went right over spain (home to javier solana). But nothing happened...it was a warning. It is my opinion that nothing big will happen on Purim this yr but this is a warning to those like Haman that tried to do away with the jews.

these things are for us to understand the times

the more we see...the closer we are...without the definitive day and hour

Val, i see you are on...lets press into Psalm 107...i am going to be reading it
outloud right now...
right now...

I am led to this first,

Psalm 119:38 which is under the HEY/five 33-40 segment
the Hey/HEI denotes the breath of God in creation/Torah

"Establish Your word to Your servant,
Who is devoted to fearing You...

...O my!



i turned to Psalm 107 and began reading...outloud

i glanced at the top of the page...

of the Psalms,
this is included in Book 5/Psalm 107-150/the Hey/Hei/Torah


God is good. this is awesome and incredibly wonderful...


signet


_________________________________________________________________________




thank you Gavrial...there is something specific...as i was
just made aware...5/Hey/Torah...

and i believe that
if we study and follow out the Jewish feasts and holydays...that
we will see and know that our redemption draws nigh...

i don't know about the timetable...however, i came up with
the 2300 scripture independantly...just yesterday...it has not
opened to me, yet...it was letting the numbers speak...with
a friend...i was amazed...and thought of this thread...

last year i had a dream that the wheel spoke...resh...the letter
and i knew it was rosh...rosh hashannah...the head of the year...
and in our calendar...we have also just passed over the beginning
of the new year...and we have been examining prayerfully,
Psalm 107.

blessings,
signet

2/28/2007

Yes Signet I will seek the Lord about this scripture again! I am not on lunch for about an hour so I will see where the Lord leads me.



duncdrewnoah

It is my opinion that nothing big will happen on Purim this yr but this is a warning to those like Haman that tried to do away with the jews





Yes duncdrewnoah I agree with what you are saying as far as warning thing goes. But at some point they will play out! I am of the opinion when they do they will correspond to the Jewish Feast Days! They will fall exactly on them and be fullfilled just as the Spring Feast were fulfilled at the Messiah's 1st coming!


Your Friend in Christ,
Val
Messiahiscoming

Okay, next question...

You are using Roman time to count, right? If you were to calculate this using the Jewish calendar your dates would not be same, right?
For example. The Jewish month of Nisan consists of the days of March 22-April 21.

Did you factor in that our Roman calendar and the Jewish calendar days are not the same...Only then will they show a true time, not a date setting time, because I don't attempt that, just a true time...Right????

I've checked his dates and Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) does in fact fall on October 9th 2008 which is 2300 days from June 24th 2002 (the "vision" of "peace, peace" (sudden destruction))



Hebcal interactive Jewish calendar

did you get this....


Number 10

"And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying:1

"Make two silver trumpets for yourself; you shall make
them of hammered work; you shall use them for calling the assembly
and for directing the movement of the camps."2

"When they blow BOTH of them, all the assembly shall gather
before you at the door of the tabernacle of meeting."3

"But if they blow only one, then the leaders, the heads of the divisions
of Israel, shall gather to you."4


The horns are silver...one for the Jews and one for the Gentiles

to me, this is a picture of the two witnesses just waiting to blow
their horns...

i experienced avodah on yom kippur. it was very amazing and the
Holy Spirit brooded over the service. The kohane, priests are called
up to the bemah...covered tightly in the tallit...and the shofar is
sounded in a specific series of repetitions...long, short, staccato...
i don't remember what each sounding represents...


blessings,
signet

If Psalm 107 corresponds to the year 2007 as JR Church suggested, look at what the year 2008 corresponds to:




Psalm 108

A song. A psalm of David.
1 My heart is steadfast, O God;
I will sing and make music with all my soul.

2 Awake, harp and lyre!
I will awaken the dawn.

3 I will praise you, O LORD, among the nations;
I will sing of you among the peoples.

4 For great is your love, higher than the heavens;
your faithfulness reaches to the skies.

5 Be exalted, O God, above the heavens,
and let your glory be over all the earth.

6 Save us and help us with your right hand,
that those you love may be delivered.

7 God has spoken from his sanctuary:
"In triumph I will parcel out Shechem
and measure off the Valley of Succoth.

8 Gilead is mine, Manasseh is mine;
Ephraim is my helmet,
Judah my scepter.

9 Moab is my washbasin,
upon Edom I toss my sandal;
over Philistia I shout in triumph."

10 Who will bring me to the fortified city?
Who will lead me to Edom?

11 Is it not you, O God, you who have rejected us
and no longer go out with our armies?

12 Give us aid against the enemy,
for the help of man is worthless. 13 With God we will gain the victory,
and he will trample down our enemies.

Okay...I was just checking....Not knocking this body of work...I lean on the side of caution when dates are set...I am looking through his work trying to learn what I can from it...So, my question are to learn only...

I know Gav does not mind questions...

Thank you mmddll for posting the answer to my question though....I am still leaning on calling you Skippy...

QUOTE

Thank you mmddll for posting the answer to my question though....I am still leaning on calling you Skippy...

Oh yes, I remember that in the "for flying squirrel" thread I think...you're welcome



This is interesting about Shechem. It is also the place where Joseph was buried...



(source)



apparently the Israeli government under Sharon allowed the Palestinians to take over the site...

http://www.shechem.org/kyos/engkyos.html

verse eight...

speaking of Gilead and Manasseh...then

Ephraim also is the helmet for MY HEAD;
Judah is MY LAWGIVER.



the sticks...

Ezekiel 37

"As for you, son of man, take a stick for yourself and write on it:
For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions.
Then take another stick and write on it, For Joseph,
the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel, his companion. 16

"Then join them one to another for yourself into one stick,
and they will become one in your hand."17

"And when the children of your people speak to you,
saying, Will you not show us what you mean by these?"18

"Say to them, Thus says the Lord God: Surely I will take the
stick of Joseph, which in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel,
his companions; and I will join them with it, with the stick of Judah,
and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand."19

"And the sticks on which you write will be in your hand before their eyes."20

"Then say to them, Thus says the Lord God: Surely I will take the
children of Israel from among the nations, where ever they have gone,
and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land;"21

And I will make them one nation in the land, on the moutains of Israel;
and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations,
nor shall they ever be divided unto two kindgoms again".22


this is huge...

Judah and Ephraim...the divided kingdom will be reunited...in the
same powerful way...that the body is fitly joined...the authority
of God...poured out...and in order...dominion....of our God.

the recognizable...that have been the focus for thousands of years
and those that have been in the diaspora...and have not known
their roots...

this is spiritual, as well as physical...for this is going to happen,
is upon us...and it is spiritually discerned...

can you see it? can you see the cloud of His presence...hoovering
do you feel it?

the same hoovering presence of G-d over the waters of creation.
over each of us...the same hoovering of G-d over the Word of His
promise...the same hoovering presence of the Day of Atonement,
at the tabernacle of meeting.


all the angels sing...

HOLY, HOLY, HOLY
LORD GOD ALMIGHTY

signet

2/28/2007

It's evident how it paralles how it is said that Joesph is being sold again...Never at rest so to speak and always without a home land....That's how I see it...

Isaiah 6
1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and his train filled the temple.
2 Above him stood the seraphim: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.
3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is Jehovah of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
4 And the foundations of the thresholds shook at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.
5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, Jehovah of hosts.
6 Then flew one of the seraphim unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:
7 and he touched my mouth with it, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin forgiven.
8 And I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then I said, Here am I; send me.
9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they sea with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and turn again, and be healed.
11 Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until cities be waste without inhabitant, and houses without man, and the land become utterly waste,
12 and Jehovah have removed men far away, and the forsaken places be many in the midst of the land. 13 And if there be yet a tenth in it, it also shall in turn be eaten up: as a terebinth, and as an oak, whose stock remaineth, when they are felled; so the holy seed is the stock thereof.

NIV version

Isaiah 6
Isaiah's Commission
1 In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of his robe filled the temple.
2 Above him were seraphs, each with six wings: With two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying.
3 And they were calling to one another:
"Holy, holy, holy is the LORD Almighty;
the whole earth is full of his glory."
4 At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook and the temple was filled with smoke.
5 "Woe to me!" I cried. "I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the LORD Almighty."
6 Then one of the seraphs flew to me with a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with tongs from the altar.
7 With it he touched my mouth and said, "See, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away and your sin atoned for."
8 Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"
And I said, "Here am I. Send me!"
9 He said, "Go and tell this people:
" 'Be ever hearing, but never understanding;
be ever seeing, but never perceiving.'
10 Make the heart of this people calloused;
make their ears dull
and close their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed."
11 Then I said, "For how long, O Lord?"
And he answered:
"Until the cities lie ruined
and without inhabitant,
until the houses are left deserted
and the fields ruined and ravaged,
12 until the LORD has sent everyone far away
and the land is utterly forsaken.
13 And though a tenth remains in the land,
it will again be laid waste.
But as the terebinth and oak
leave stumps when they are cut down,
so the holy seed will be the stump in the land."

This is pretty exciting alright.