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Miki
QUOTE
The total for all the 22 Arab League countries is 6,145,389 square miles (SM). By comparison, all 50 states of the United States have a total of 3,787,318 SM. Israel has 8,463 square miles, about one-sixth of that of the State of Michigan. Iran, Turkey, Pakistan and Afghanistan are Muslim but not Arab and are not included.
World Arab population: 300 million; World Jewish population: 13.6 million; Israel's Jewish population: 5.4 million. (reference: Dr. Wilbert Simkovitz,
http://dehai.org/archives/dehai_news_archive/ apr04/0223.htmldehai.org/ archives/dehai_news_archive/apr04/0223.html)


This is a hard piece of history to understand so I'll tell you what l have so far and any that no more can offer up the history lesson.

Turkey sided with Germany in WWI and lost..The French and British where given the land to divide. This process was called the British Mandate for Palestine at the San Remo Conference in 1922. The British League of Nations...

QUOTE
"The Palestine Mandate was not created on land taken from the Syrians or the Arabs. It was taken from the Turks. It was not taken from the Turks by the Jews, but by the British and the French. They took it because Turkey sided with Germany in the First World War and, of course, lost. The Turkish empire had ruled the entire region including Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Jordan for four hundred years before Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Jordan were artificially created by the English and the French. Jordan -- a state whose majority is Palestinian -- occupies 80% of the Palestine Mandate. So it is a preposterous lie to say that the Palestinians had their own land and that it was occupied by the Jews." (David Horowitz, Front Page Magazine, December 14, 2006)


So if l'm getting this correctly...Turkey was called the Ottoman Empire but fell in 1918 to Britain and France.
Correct?...
Miki
Where is Palestine and who is a Palestinian?
Well.. evidently it was a created issue in 1967 to accommodate Arafat...

But consider this statement by Dafna Yee in an article called;

WHAT IS "PALESTINIAN LAND" AND WHO ARE THE "PALESTINIANS"?
(Notice the highlighted area)

QUOTE
......Under the Ottomans, the term "Palestinians" was not officially used at all for anyone (except Jews in the Diaspora referred to the Jews who lived there as "Palestinian Jews.") When the British controlled the area, the term "Palestinians" was ONLY USED FOR JEWISH RESIDENTS! (If you called an Arab a "Palestinian" before 1948, he would have been very insulted!) That is one reason for so much confusion and misinterpretation.

In the 19th century, what was referred to as Palestine was present-day Gaza and the rest of what is now Israel was referred to as southern Syria. (When I say "referred" I am speaking of tax records, which was really the only way of keeping records that told who lived where and what their status was throughout the empire.) Palestine under the Turks (and for centuries before that) was a territory; it was never a separate country, nation, or whatever with a recognized border and where its residents attained their identity from their government or even a shared history. Just so you know, when I say "territory," I mean a land mass with accepted geographical boundaries having nothing to do with politics. (Siberia is also a territory but the people who live there do not consider themselves to be Siberians.)

During a famous interview, Golda Meir said that she herself was a Palestinian and showed her pre-1948 passport as evidence. When she was asked about the Palestinian fighters, also known as fedayeen, being an important factor in the fighting in the Six Day War, she replied: "Important, no. A new factor, yes. There was no such a thing as Palestinians. When was there an independent Palestinian people with a Palestinian State? It was either southern Syria before the First World War and then it was a Palestine including Jordan. It was not as though there was a Palestinian people in Palestine considering itself as a Palestinian people and we came and threw them out and took their country away from them. They did not exist." (The Times of London, dated June 15th 1969)
(http://www.chretiens-et-juifs.org/article.php?voir[]=956&voir[]=4615) (One of the reasons that Golda Meir referred to the fedayeen as a "new factor" was because having Arabs fighting under the identity of "Palestinians" had only been occurring for about two years at that time.)

When saying that "Palestinians" did not exist, she (and I) both meant that these Arabs did not exist as an separate group of people with their own CULTURAL identity as such. We never meant or implied that they didn't exist as individuals or even deny that there are Arab terrorists in various groups who identify themselves as "Palestinians."

There were indeed ARABS living in what is now Israel during the 19th and early 20th centuries but NOT millions of them, as too many people assume and accept! Indeed, there were not millions of residents in that area of any distinct culture/religion until the creation of modern political Zionism brought waves of Jewish immigrants to Eretz Yisroel. The total population of the entire area ranged from about 200,000 to about 450,000 from 1800 to 1880. (http://www.zionism-israel.com/zionism_history.htm) Therefore, the vast majority of Arabs who are called "Palestinians" today, even those who did have ancestral ties to present day Israel, had actually resided in that area for less time than the Jews living there now. The increased Arab population was caused more by immigration that was stirred by the Jewish presence which created job/education opportunities than by birth rates. This is especially true for the disputed areas considered "Palestinian land" where new Arab settlements often grew faster than Jewish ones.

The Jews who went to the Palestine territory before the first world war, went to a deserted and barren land with the north being marshes and the south being desert. (Read Mark Twain's memoirs of his trip to the Holy Land or Henrietta Szold's travels around Palestine which led her to found Hadassah; the emptiness of the land figures prominently in both accounts.) There were many Jewish villages, and some cities, built near Arab villages during this period, particularly around cities like Jerusalem, but the Jewish villages did NOT replace the Arab ones when they were built. Ever! (There was NOTHING where Tel Aviv is now except sand dunes and new Jerusalem was created from digging enormous stones out of the barren ground.)

There is absolutely no parallel with the history of Native Americans and early settlers in the US with what is happening in Israel today; that is just another hoax. However, for the sake of argument, consider this. If a group of Native Americans whose ancestors had lived on the land where your house is now, decided to bomb your house and deliberately waited until your children were asleep in their beds to blow it up, would you really just shrug it off with the statement that, since you didn't have a clear title (at least in their eyes), you could understand why they killed your family and they shouldn't be arrested and stopped from killing anyone else? And if an entire group of Native Americans tried to take back their "ancestral lands," which included major cities and would displace thousands of people, do you really think the government of the United States, or any other government, would allow it? Yet, that is exactly what people who believe the Arab propaganda about "Palestinian lands," are saying that Israel should do when this lie is accepted as truth!

One way that I am sure of what I'm saying has been to use those sources written before 1967 and usually before 1948 or at least use ones that cite sources published before that time. There is not a single reference to the ARABS as "Palestinians" in the British Mandate of Palestine for example. (For the record, yes, I have read the entire document, nearly 1000 very boring pages; it took me nearly two weeks of sitting in the New York Public library!)

An important point to remember when checking sources on Israel: if you ever see a reference to "ancient Palestine" or "biblical Palestine" you should recognize immediately that it is bogus or a mark of the author's misinformation. The name "Palestine" was coined by the Romans when they conquered Judea in the first century BCE, which was six hundred years before there were ANY ARABS living there at all! This was done in order to deliberately erase records of the Jewish population. ANY source actually written before 1964, refers to "Arab-Israeli" or "Arab-Jewish" wars, riots, etc. and never uses the term "Palestinians" at all to refer to a separate or specific group of Arabs. (Just stick the words "1929 Hebron" into a search engine and see for yourself.)


It's hard to understand this history but l want to try. If you have anything to add to the factual historic account l would appreciate it............
yaqub
QUOTE(Miki @ Feb 16 2007, 07:06 AM) [snapback]102327[/snapback]

Turkey sided with Germany in WWI and lost..The French and British where given the land to divide. This process was called the British Mandate for Palestine at the San Remo Conference in 1922. The British League of Nations...


The British Mandate was given by the then League of the Nations (predecessor of UN) to administer that piece of land called Palestine. The British did a terrible job at it. Finally, the LoN decided to partition up Palestine between the Arabs and the Jews. (this part of the history is very interesting and miraculous).

QUOTE

So if l'm getting this correctly...Turkey was called the Ottoman Empire but fell in 1918 to Britain and France.
Correct?...


The Ottoman Empire actually came to an end in 1922. The modern nation of Turkey came into being. Various parts were partitioned up and the modern nations we see today began to gain independence in subsequent decades. The Ottoman Turks were the ones to destroy the Eastern Roman Empire.
Miki
Yaqub

QUOTE
The British did a terrible job at it.
So l've been told by sources l trust but l'm not sure in what way? Then you said...
QUOTE
Finally, the LoN decided to partition up Palestine between the Arabs and the Jews. (this part of the history is very interesting and miraculous).


LoN...you lost me...is this a typo?

I'm interested in the interesting and miraculous...Any additions?

Also, l guess a person would have to look at the definition of a "territory".
When l looked it up it still seemed ambiguous?
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