Genesis 35;1
amplified bible

God told jacob "go up to Bethel and dwell there, and make an altar there"

Altars were for "sacrifices" or in some instances, they were only memorials.
bethel means "house of god"......in later times, a well-known holy place, a place for the ark of the covenant

verse 2
Jacob told all his people "put away the images of the strange gods, purify yourselves, and change into fresh clothes

verse 4
Jacob buried the strange gods and earings (charms for protection against evil) under a great oak tree

verse 5
a terror from god fell on the twons around them, and the towns didn't pursue jacob

verse 7
Bethel is where god revealed himself to jacob

******
Bethel
was Luz (means almond)
then, God revealed himself to Jacob at bethel
later , jacob built an altar and lived at bethel
later, during the Judges, the israelites gathered at bethel to inquire fo god
later, the ark of the covenant stayed at bethel
later, samuel held court in bethel, on his circuit
later, jeoboam placed the 2 golden calves for idolatrous worship, (the 2 divided kingdoms)
later, bethel fell into the hands of judah
later, elijah visited bethel .....the "sons of the prophets" lived at bethel
after Assyria destroyed the northern kingdom of israel, bethel still remained the abode of priests

***

My thoughts:
where is the "terror from god" today?
it seems that attacking god (and bible-believers) is very popular today.
has god abandoned the world to futility and foolishness and Satan?
The Great Rebellion (during the Trib) is possible, ONLY if the world hates god and bible.
God has removed (from the world) the "terror from god" and the Holy Spirit (the "Restrainer") , so that the Trib may begin.

Excellent point Dennis,

I have noticed a lack of fear of God in my own life and in the church as a whole, not to mention the world.
Many Christian churches teach that we should NOT fear God. They say that fear does not mean fear, it means reverential awe. Has anyone heard that? Thats actually true but what they dont tell you is that awe means fear although in our corrupted common usage it means. Wow man, that is way cool.

www.dictionary.com
1. an overwhelming feeling of reverence, admiration, fear, etc., produced by that which is grand, sublime, extremely powerful, or the like: in awe of God; in awe of great political figures.
2. Archaic. power to inspire fear or reverence.
3. Obsolete. fear or dread.

http://65.66.134.201/cgi-bin/webster/webst...xts_web1828=awe
AWE, n. aw. [Gr. to be astonished.]


1. Fear mingled with admiration or reverence; reverential fear.

Stand in awe and sin not. Ps. 4.

2. Fear; dread inspired by something great, or terrific.
AWE, v.t. To strike with fear and reverence; to influence by fear, terror or respect; as, his majesty awed them into silence.

In your opinion DM, is the Holy Spirit no longer in this word? I have never heard of the Holy Spirit as the Restrainer before. Where is that from?

DM is terribly wrong on this point. He is obviously a pretrib rapture believer. However I did not want to distract from his other excellent point to get into a debate about the pretrib rapture.

Psalm 76;10

amplified bible
verse 1
after the trib, His Name shall be GREAT

verse 2
Jesus will rule in Jerusalem

verse 3
He broke the world's armies at armegeddon, at end-of-trib

verse 4
the whole earth will see that He is Glorius and excellent

verse 5
Israel will plunder the plunderers
the birds will feast on kings and princes

verse 6
armegeddon's armies are on horses

verse 7
the trib is the GREAT ANGER of god

verse 8
the trib is the penalty (sentence) for the world's sin and Rebellion

verse 9
At armegeddon, God arose to defeat evil and bring in the Millenial Reign of Righteousness
to save the meek
The meek shall inherit the earth.........the meek are Jesus and the Bride (Church)

verse 10
God will glorify himself, even in man's rebellion, and the defeat of evil men, and armegeddon.
God's light and righteousness will shine, compared to the darkness of evil men.
His strength is Glorious compared to the weakness of evil men.
His Wisdom shines compared with men's foolishness.

the remainder of wrath shall You ***RESTRAIN*** and gird and arm Yourself with it ........i think this refers to ..........sin is not completely obliterated in the Mill Reign, but Jesus forces (with a rod of iron) all people to behave themselves during the Mill Reign, and at the End-of-the-mill-reign, satan is loosed and a great Rebellion occurs........then, all sin is obliterated forever....and we enter an endless day (eternity future)

verse 11
the world-wide survivors (jews and gentiles) of the trib will enter the Mill Reign as mortals, and they will worship god in jerusalem every year, and observe the festival of tabernacles, and bring presents to god.

verse 12
Jesus and the Saints will rule the earth for 1000 years, and the wicked rule of fallen men is ceased.
Hooray!

2 thess 2;7
amplified bible
the mystery of lawlessness is already at work in the world, [but it is] ***RESTRAINED*** only until he who ***RESTRAINS*** is taken out of the way.

Who is the Restrainer?
the footnote in my amplified bible says: many think the a/c is restrained by the holy spirit, who lives in all believers who will be removed with them at Christ's Coming.
A majority think it refers to the Roman Empire.


my thoughts:
notice , verse 7 and 8
the Restrainer is taken out of the way, THEN, the a/c is revealed.
the a/c will come with
lawless
working of satan
great power
all sorts of pretended miracles, signs, delusive marvels, lying wonders,
unlimited seduction
all wicked deception

God sends a misleading influence on those who loved NOT the Truth (Jesus).

Shekel told us: he didn't know if the rapture is pre, mid, or post-trib. If Shekel can't figure it out, i doubt that i can. Am i smarter than Shekel? no



psalm 75 is a warning from god to the wicked, before the trib starts

verse 8
in the hand of the lord there is a cup [of his wrath], and the wine foams and is red, well mixed; and he pours out from it, and all the wicked of the earth must drain it and drink its dregs
see psalm 60;3.......jer 25;15........rev 14;9, 10......16;19

this is trib language!

jer 25;26-28
the little fulfillment of this was the destruction of babylon , before christ.

the GREAT FULFILLMENT of this , is the trib


verse 29
assuming that there is a Trib-application of this verse, God's Judgement will begin with the household of Faith (the Church) , and then later , the wrath of God will fall on the wicked.

in my opinion , there are GREAT problems (apostacies, heresies, etc) in the Church today.

1 peter 4;12, 17, 18
god is testing our quality , with a fiery ordeal

1 peter 4;8
love covers a multitude of sins

genesis 22;1
god tested Abraham's faith

1 peter 1;7
the genuineness of your faith may be tested, as gold is tested and purified by fire........Yikes!
our faith is infinitely more precious than gold.......wow!

2 cor 8;2
in the midst of severe tribulation , their abundance of joy and the depth of their poverty.......

hebrews 11;36
others had to suffer the trial of mocking and scourging, and even chains and prison

Stay is God's word...and delight in his councel...he will instruct, and comfort, and be our Rock and Fortress.

The Fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom...fear in Reverance of the Mighty works of a loving father, whom disciplines whom he loves and also a God of wrath who will DESTROY THE WICKED...he is the all consuming Fire...Refining Fire...for his PURPOSE will PREVAIL and HIS GLORY WILL BE SEEN...for all those who have ears to hear and eyes to see, and every tongue will confess and every knee bow to the GLORY OF THE LORD...all POWERFUL, ALL GLORY AND WISDOM AND HONOR TO THE KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS, he is our strength, he is our Deliverer and Reedemer, JESUS is the WAY AND THE TRUTH and the LIFE.

He said as well, when the dsiciples asked to send down fire upon the unbeliever, I have not come to Destroy but to Save. Unfortunately the stubborn and evil whom hate him, and love to war against his Kingdom will meet their fate due to their urepentive hearts....and still his hand is stretched out in HIS TIME, and IN HIS PATIENCE, and long suffering...he wishes none to perish but have everlasting life.

Isaiah 29:22-24 Therefore thus saith the LORD, who redeemed Abraham, concerning the house of Jacob, Jacob shall not now be ashamed, neither shall his face now wax pale.
23. But when he seeth HIS CHILDREN, the work of mine hands, in the midst of him, they shall sanctify my name, and sancitfy the HOLY ONE OF JACOB, and SHALL FEAR THE GOD OF ISRAEL.
24. They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.

30. Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering , but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin.

PRAISE him Dennis....listen to his Word and pray....me too...God Bless you

just chiming in..all the posts are a great read on the topic, I just wanted to say that I interrpreted 'fear' of GOD meaning respect, when the one thief crucified with Christ says to the other, "Do you not fear GOD?" when the other was insulting JESUS I took that to mean even if people hated GOD, cursed Jesus, they would still have respect. Respect for Christian beliefs doesn't even exist anymore. It used to be politically correct to at least respect what you believe. Now it seems, if you are a Christian, its now a requirement to target you and your beliefs, to eradicate all influence. The Gideons are being arrested for just handing out Bibles in public! Its to the point now that there is a concertrated effort to erase all traces of the Bible and Christian ideas...to eradicate every little thing that reminds people of Christ. I believe, besides being under Satanic influence, the reason is that unbelieving people are familar enough with the BIBLE to know that the life they lead is wrong and they want to erase all reminders of that. Do as thou wilt seems to be the rule of law anymore.

we have TREMENDOUS motivation to "do right"

we have positive motivation.........we gain Jesus, the Church, and Heaven

we have negative motivation.......we want to avoid satan, the wicked , and hell-fire

so, we have the "love" to draw us toward Jesus.......and the "fear" to draw us away from satan.

and yet, the "Many" are still not saved!
Wow!

FlyingSquirrel, soooo true! Two of the women working for John Edwards' campaign have a blog out where they are calling us (Christians) MFs and saying vulgar things about Mary's conception of Christ, yet he won't fire or even discipline them. It's too popular to demean Christ and our faith.

DM, I loved the opening post with 'Bethel' used. My recently departed grandmother's name was Bethel Isaiah and, oh, how she loved the Lord!

I don't know where I stand on pre-, mid-, or post-trib raptures; I tend to lean mid-trib. I'll just keep watch no matter when!

In Christ, Angela

That is where I find myself on this as well Angela...I don't even feel the need to find out until God reveals it too me Himself. I've seen it cause too much division and strife. I too just watch always for the beloved return of my Lord and Savior with much anticipation!!

The pre-trib rapture is one of the teachings which the devil is using and will use increasing as we near the end times, to trap Christians. This evil and utterly incorrect teaching must be combated and defeated so that Christians may be properly prepared for the end times. Your attitude is incorrect Gypsy. You know that you don't understand and you expect God to click a switch and make all the lights go on for you. He will not do it because you have a Bible in front of you and you should be making it a priority to study it, so that you may understand the issue. Watching for the beloved Lord and Saviour is the crux of the problem because the antichrist will appear as the saviour of the world as if he were God himself. Without proper training in the scriptures you may not recognise his deception which the Bible calls a "powerful delusion". Only a remnant of Christians "the elect" will perceive the lie and the great bulk of Christians will sell their souls to the antichrist.

Today is the day to attain understanding and wisdom. Do not leave it till tomorrow for by the time you realise that the Lord is coming it will be too late and you will have gone out to buy and sell your soul for bread.

You don't know me well enough to make that judgement about me...just because I choose not to argue the matter does not mean I will worship the antichrist....that is the worse thing anyone has ever said to me

I have not criticised you for not arguing the matter. I have criticised you because you are not researching your Bible or interviewing your pastors to resolve this issue in your mind. You are happy to just coast along waiting for a blinding flash to come. I tell you now as a warning that the first blinding flash which will come will be from the antichrist and his deceptive and false signs and wonders. If you do not prepare now to recognise his craft, his manner and his tactics you will most assuredly be swept away in the tide of adoration which the world will lavish upon him.

Millions of Christians will sell out. As you say I do not know you well enough to know whether you will be one of them, however I do know that it is those who exhibit a lack of concern over this issue which will be the most likely to sell out because of their lack of preparation.

My object is not to accuse you but to warn you for the safety of your soul.

Do not take offence. Take heed.

I have just read thru your recent posts, and it seems to me that you speak very harsh to many, so I will just consider the source. Again I say...you don't know me, my situation, my walk with the Lord...and have no right to criticize or judge me. That being said, I won't respond to this further except to say that a kind and loving heart that speaks with patience and love garners more attention and learning than attacking others constantly! May God bless and keep you
YSIC
Elaine

Would you like me to warn you with pan pipes and a flute. Would you like me to sing you a lullaby and give you a pillow for your sweet head?
Of course I warn you with a blaring trumpet so that you will wake up and get busy with your Bible Study.
I do not attack others unless they are utter heretics of which there are a couple on this forum.
I also forcefully oppose false teaching of all kinds everywhere I go.

There are plenty of people with soothing words to tickle with love and comfort. But what's the use of that if they stay sleeping and go drowsing to their end. It is because I love the truth and love the Saints of God that I am abrasive and at times harsh. So that the people of God will wake up and attend to important matters. I do have a kind and loving heart, ask my little children and my wife of 15 years. It is because of my loving heart that I cry out in anguish at the terrible slide of the church of the west. What can I do to warn my brothers and sisters in Christ. But no they do not want to hear. They want soft words, they want lullabies, they choose teachers who tell them "God loves you" "God has not appointed you to wrath" God will rescue you out of tribulation" "God will not let you face the temptations of the antiChrist" "God will rapture into a fuzzy white world where you won't have to worry".

Yes God does love us which is why he chastens those he loves.
Hebrews 12:5 My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after [2] their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

Will you say that God is harsh and unloving too because he chastens and rebukes. Believe me, my words are mild compared to the Lord who is terrible and whose voice thunders and makes the earth to shake upon its foundations.