there are certain Christian friends of mine that have seperated themselves around me.

they have decided to choose the road of "closing" themselves from others and being
selective on who they talk to. long point made short...we all grew up around some gay friends
when we were A LOT younger. now that we're older many of them still kept the same lifestyle.
the issue is not about them being gay because we all know where the bible stands on that issue.
the thing is that there have been many requests through myspace.com to be their "friend."
So my Christain friends have denied their "friend" request because they don't want to have their profile
affiliated with gay friends.
Me on the other hand..accepted their requests. Now I'm being removed from my Christian friends.

This is the thing. I feel comfortable of who I am. But I do not study the Word so I can keep it for myself. My myspace profile has blogs that shows I am a Christian that is studying but if I go around closing doors on people then I have not love.
I do not promote their lifestyle but didn't Jesus go have dinner with a taxpayer and everyone thought that He was mad for doing so? I am leaving a door open so the day they decide to ask questions...i am a click away.

I'm a tee-bit unsure if what I'm doing is right so has anyone else been divided on this type of circumstance?
if you have decided to "close doors" to others then please let me know why.

Amen c-los. I totally agree with what you are saying. I think you are doing the RIGHT THING. Homosexuals and bisexuals already know what your views are if you are forthcoming about your Christianity (and I know that you are)... so there are no need for lectures or declarations or finger pointing.

Jesus went to the sick... He did not shun them. The love of God draws men to Him... how can we love someone we do not talk to?

i totally hear you. however, it's interesting how some of them felt that affiliating themselves with gay profiles to their profiles would seem unChristian. Don't get me wrong, if a gay couple walked into our church our Pastor would politely talk to them after Church and explain kindly that we do not practice nor encourage that in our Church. However, there has to be some sort of room to say "if you decide to ask questions and turn your life around...here is my number and you are most welcomed here."

IMO

...Christ took an odd stance and he got his back lashed

I'm with your friends. We may associate with gay people in the course of our work or daily life but we should not consider them to be friends. Whats a friend anyway? According to the dictionary it is "a person attached to another by feelings of affection or personal regard."

By associating yourself with them you are tacitly endorsing their lifestyle.
Sure Christ conversed with and visited sinners, but did he call them friends. I doubt it. He visited them so that he could be a witness to them of the kingdom of God.

Instead he said "John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you"

By calling the gay men friends you cheapen the word "friend" and insult those who should be your friends who obey the command of our Lord.

i hear ya but i never said I'm endorsing their lifestyle. on the contrary...they see my page and there are Christian topics. they can delete me if they feel like i am too religious for them.
as i said...i'm not trying to say what i did is right.
however, do we study to keep the word to ourselves?

if they would ask me to go out with them then i would say "no." however, if they ask questions i am there.

as i said, i'm a little confused on this but i'm going to think about what i am doing.
i've already concluded that my so called Christian friends can keep each other because i never received a "hey what are you doing..."

C-los, I think that in this you have answered yourself. You have the love for all that Jesus instructed us to have. The word 'friend' has been misused, I think. These people are your associates, and you care for their souls, I'm sure. You say you would not go out with them. Would you with your friends? Of course you would, because they are your friends. You know they are not your friends if you would not go out with them. You are serving as a witness to them in a loving way, it seems. This is no different than someone working in a prison ministry. They know and visit people in prison, but that does not make them felons or criminals! Keep trying to reach these people, you may be instrumental in winning some souls for Christ! I'm sorry that your circle of christian friends are rejecting you. Maybe if you called the 'lost' the 'lost', instead of 'friends' they would realize that you are not encouraging their lifestyle? Anyway, this is just my two bits.

God bless, Angela

That was the cutest thing I have heard today (and I have spent my day around some silly people!)

I thought being gay was all about sexual matters. What has being soemones friend have to do with that? I really dont get it. I really dont. I don't mean to be so dense....but, really, so you meet a person and decide to go to dinner (I mean friends at work and you and your husband say, "have you eaten? Why don't we go to Zaxsby's?" Or if you know someone at work.....who cares what SEXUAL orientation they have? Really?????? You're going out to luch for heaven's sake, and were you to say something like, "how bout going to Zaxsby's with us, that is unless you are gay" would be not just unfriendly but weird.

leia

Unless you talk about those things on "my space".....I have never been there. Such personal matters seems rather unfitting a thing to talk about anywhere.

So if they are not his friends, then why has he accepted them onto his friends list on the forum. Clearly he is sending mixed messages here. I fear that he has accepted them on his friends list because he is afraid of their ire towards him if he rejects them. We should not be fearful of men in the world. I still say that despite the Christian profile he is still providing tacit support for their lifestyle. As we all know there are many Christians so-called today who approve of Homosexuality. Medrano should send a very clear message to these men that he does not approve.

lol!

I'm with you leia! I TOTALLY agree with what you are saying.

I was in the shower... talking to the Lord about this. This was my prayer:

"Lord, I see nothing wrong with having a relationship with someone who is gay."

God's response: "You just have to beware who it is you hang out with- the company you keep. Remember Lot. You are who your friends are."

So... I think the bottom line is- show the love of Christ to people.

I use the term "friend" very sparingly. I only have a few friends... and they are precious jewels. They lift me up, they pray for me, I call them at 3 in the morning, they make me strong, they rebuke me and humble me... they are GIFTS from Jesus. I cry when I think about it.

It is the strength and fellowship of my friends that allows me to carry God's rightousness to the dark world... gay, murderer, liar, theif. (I myself have been these things too by the way!)

I can be loving and truthful at the same time. Jesus was full of grace and truth. Truth without grace is brutality. Grace without truth is hypocrasy. GRACE and TRUTH. Love with the Word. That's what it takes to save people.

Again- I think it is important to remember that homosexuals know your stance if you are forthcoming about your faith. If the subject comes up- you state what the Word says. Otherwise... love them like you would anyone else!

Do they have an 'associates' list? I've not been there, I don't know the purpose of the 'friends' list there.

C-los should send a very clear message that the LORD does not approve. They tend to be quite contemptuous of people not approving, they need to realize that GOD does not approve.


Julie, I, too, use the term 'friend' very sparingly. I know many sinners who are still lost, and I am friendly towards them, but they are not my 'friends'. My friends are all brothers and sisters in Christ. Totally agree and identify with your post.

God bless, Angela

jhamner, if calling at 3 in the morning is criteria for "friend".......gotta think about that one!

Strong arguments on both sides of this coin. Cha know, I don't go around telling people how I feel all the time like I got some type of chip on my shoulder or a need to have them understand me. I don't go around telling anyone I work with, "can I buy you lunch but only if you are straight". Lunch is lunch and friends are friends. There are some people I know that I don't care for the way the live at all, but they work for me. They do a job that they have done from me for 25 years. They haven't changed. They still do things that are wrong and they come to lunch with us when the rest of us go. Who am I to judge? They know how I feel about God and they know how I feel about their behavior, but they also know that I do not consider myself above them.

I try to behave as if they are God's children too and they have the same salvation offered to them I do. Whether they take it or not is not my decission. Whether they will or won't be saved is not my decission. Tod o or not to do what God tells me to do is my only decission. Desertion is different than knowing how each other stands on principals. Ithink we need to learn to adree to disagree without desertion. You can not witness and desert.

How does this stuff come up in a normal conversation anyway? Did he make a pass at you? I sure don't go around telling anyone, "ya, I'm leia and I'm straight." What difference does that make to whatever else you are talking about? Now, if you ARE talking sexual matter....I don't care if you are straight or gay THAT is uncalled for in any regard.

leia

You've got it all wrong. At work going out for lunch is just a way to pass the time. You don't ask them back home for coffee and a chat.
Clearly this is a matter of conscience. If there was a homosexual at work who invited me to go to lunch one on one. I would politely tell him to clear off. If however the work group all went out for a work lunch and the homosexual was there I would talk politely with him as with everyone else.

The situation is no different here it seems to me. Why did these gay men invite a Christian to be on their buddy list? It was a challenge to his conscience. They wanted to feel the acceptance of a Christian, or else they wanted to see a Christian compromise his values. This is the attitude of the man who offers food sacrificed to the idol to watch what his response will be.
1 Cor 10:27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake. 28 But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:

The fact that the other Christian friends rejected the invite indicates that all is not well with the intentions of these gay men. I suspect that meladramos has made and error in judgement in this instance.

Julie you have spoken such words of wisdom!

I agree totally with what you have said!



Love ya,

Val

Messiahiscoming

Perhaps I am just not understnding this whole matter, and I will discontinue with no ill feelings but for simply a lack of understanding.

Why in the world should ANY sexual matter be of matter to going to lunch and for having a chat? I NEVER ask people I meet ANYthing about their sexual preferences. I do not talk about it at all, Sam I Am, no not at all. That is not the topic of conversation. And if that were not the reason for the meal or the cup of coffee or the chat, why should it become so? Why should I not chat with someone about the weather over coffee, sitting together at a booth, amle or female, and regard anything other than the conversation?

perhaps I have been out of the world for too long. Maybe everything really is sexual out there and I do not understand. perhaps everything must be couched in the physical now.

I know if some girl said to me, "hey, leia, I prefer girls, wanna go out for coffee?" I would take that to mean, "wanna date?" I don't know if I would be more angry at her thinking I would bwe so accepting or whether I woul dbe angry that she would think I would cheat on my husband....but I most probably would be hurt that someone could know me so little and think they could know me so much.

But other than so blatent a line, how do you know they don't just want to "pass the time"?

I give up. See what I mean? Mu;ch more simple to just do what God tells you to do from moment to moment and then just tell people, "'cause God said to".

leia

I suppose that is what I meant by a matter of conscience. If someone is openly gay and is asking you to lunch one on one and you get that icky feeling, then it is wise not to go to lunch and chat. Of course we must struggle with difficult matters of motivations, intents & conscience. If it were not so we would have no need of passages such as 1 Cor 9 & 10. A lot of Christians want to take the lazy route and just drift along in a fog without a clue what is going on. These are the unwary and the unprepared who get swept along to embarassment and destruction.

actually i did say we were friends from years ago.

but you know...the more i think about this, the more i should just send a nice message saying that i will delete them from my list because I do not approve. You are right, i dont want to compromise my belief's.

i remember once a gay friend asked me what i thought about her being a gay Christian.
I said "i can care less what you are but it does not matter what I think. It's more about what God says and we know what He says on that manner."
She never asked me that question again.

i admire you for your question and hope you will really find an
answer, for pleasing God, not others...because this is really a
difficult thing for many to deal with...acceptance.

i know that this is there for you to grapple with because we all are
to grapple in prayer with these things...and not hide, or run from the
principalities that hold people in bondage...but we don't dance with
devils, either...

we don't have to hang out, though. like at work when a colleague
is gay, do we discuss that? no, we discuss work...if coffee is made
do we offer food and drink, yes...that is civilized...do we go out
bar hopping? no. do we hang out and bar hop with our Christian
friends? no. and true friends don't gossip, it's like cancer...

are we being drawn into their lifestyle? no, of course not! as i see
it, since you have all known each other you will have two things
to really look at; the lifestyle of your friends and under what
circumstances you will choose to minister to them if possible, maybe
it is for someone else to minister to them, while you pray for them,
and you can tell them that with all the love of Christ you have and
believe, and you can close that door in love, of leave it open for emergency...

bigger thing to sort out is why your other "Christian" friends shut
you out? They know you...and they also can pray for you without
turning their backs on you. How does it feel to be judged and to
judge others? What makes a friend? Who is a friend? Why?

how important is this other forum to you? Maybe that is the door
you need to deal with...and leave the rest to God as an offering in
your prayers...for His ways are not our ways, yes?

sometimes church friends get more mixed up and self righteous
and controlling than the world and we wonder why no one wants to go to church...
they don't want to come in and get judged to death by the person
sitting in the next pew...(Jesus already saw them and is waiting for
the heart cry) God wants more children...born again believers!

one thing really important though is this...communication. maybe,
you just want to be honest with both groups, and drop out of both
and let God send you some strong in the Lord that will help you
get a direction...and help you develop your ministry call.

you mentioned that you have grown alot since you have been at
the forum...fellowship which allows us freedom to grow in the
Word, exchange thoughts, seek out and refine our understanding
is happening to all of us...you really have grown as evidenced
by your desire to penetrate what God's heart is, rather than what
man's heart would tell you...

we do know that we have one that sticks closer that a brother...
let Him become your best friend...let the light of Him outshine the
doubt and fear of people that judge...let the wisdom of Him grow
up in you as a strong oak tree and understanding be the fruit that
feeds many in your life.

i am praying for God to really move strongly in your heart and
give you direction, intention, discernment, and a strong fellowship
of His choosing. ok?

signet

thanks Signet. you've put perrspective in some things I'm wrestling with on both sides.

C-los, two of my very good friends are gay...One female and one male...
This is what I have chosen to do: I live as Christ leads me to live....I pray that the light of Christ shines through me.....That's all I can do....I can't judge another person for what they have chosen to do, as others should not judge me for what I have chosen to do...Yes, their lifestyle is sinful, BUT all ours are...Yes, being gay is an abomination before the Lord but it is still sin. Not one sin is more grievous than another except for blashpheming the Holy Spirit. The world and even the most Chrisitians deplicts being gay as if it were blashpheming while it is not....It is a sexual sin and the word tells us it will harm the body as all sexual sins will. There is a "price to pay," (curses) for all sins...
Even though we are instructed to come up out of this world, I just don't believe that instruction means to stop talking to sinners...What I believe that means is to stop sinning as the world sins, that to me is coming up out of the world...
We are not to seperate ourselves from each other, as we are all sinners.....

acutally that is the other side that pulls me too.
forget that they are gay. i can say with assureness that my Christian friends are not all virgins and have practiced pre-marital sex. Most of them are not married but talk about how they "gave in and they struggle"...so it's funny how they close the doors on sinners that are open about their sexuality but they somehow chat with each other as if they are saints themselves. even if they try to be good now, i remember a time when they were doing all kinds of sin then all of a sudden now that they've "found Christ" they do not want to affiliate themselves with people who do not meet their criteria.
funny world sometimes...

I don't forget that they are gay, I just don't judge them for being gay....
But yes, I can relate to what you have shared...The last church we attended, the women's group were well rather "talkative" about their exploits...But on Sunday morning they were the loudest praise singers....That's exactly what I was saying...The world and Christains have put a, will you say, a % on sin....Well, my sin was only a 30% sin, so no biggie...But being gay in their eyes would be a 100% sin and not forgiven...Sin is sin, but blashphemy is in a different light....If your brother or sister in Christ, (or not) would fornicate, it is the same in God's eyes if that brother would lay with another brother...No different...

Leia, I understand you completely.
And I too agree it is much simpler living moment to moment and doing what God tells you.
My doors have always been open to all. Whoever God sends along, I am a servant and pray
that I will always show love to all people.

love,
rosie

Why is nobody quoting any scripture.
I quoted a scripture which most of you have utterly ignored, instead boasting about how you keep company and friendship with abject and evil people. Most of these posts are people waffling on with I think this and I think that. Who cares. What do the scriptures say. Lets be guided by the scripture not by the wafflings of fallible men.

John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Clearly therefore if we do not do the things which the Lord commands then we are not his friends.
Are we followers of Jesus or not? If we are then we should take the same approach as Christ. We must choose friends who keep his commandments.

If you befriend an evildoer then you are committing adultery with the world as explained here in James.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Someone even mentioned churchgoers boasting about their exploits. This is one of the most shameful things I have heard lately. The gay guys approaching a Christian for friendship. The Christian man caught in pornography. But this is far worse. Worshipping God on Sunday and rampant sin during the week and boasting about it in the small group meeting. This is an utter abomination, utter wickedness. Surely the Lord will bring judgement on the house of God for this misdeed. Surely the Lord will purge his church of this impurity.

The Bible teaches that we should not even eat or have any association with such a brother or sister who professes Christ and yet persists and boasts in sin.

1 Cor 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, .. deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus... 7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person
So clearly these wicked women must be purged from the church, and if the pastor is weak, which is highly likely, then you must shun and ignore these vile women. And if that becomes impossible because there are too many of them, then with regret and sadness you must leave that fellowship and find a body of true saints to fellowship with.

The passage in 1 Cor 5:1 concedes that we may have to keep company with fornicators in the world as part of our daily operations of making a living. But this is far different to making them our friends and bringing them into our fellowship. But if the fornicator calls himself a Christian and a brother then we are taught to not have anything to do with the fornicating Christian AT ALL.

There is too much feel-good tolerance of the world being expressed in these posts. Are we going to be led by the spirit-child within and the precepts of this world. Or are we going to be led by the pure and Holy Spirit of God which reveals all truth to us from the pages of the Holy Scripture. Smarten up people of God lest you be carried away with the depravity of this present evil age.

Why is nobody quoting any scripture.
I quoted a scripture which most of you have utterly ignored, instead boasting about how have friendship with abject and evil people. Most of these posts are people waffling on with I think this and I think that. Who cares. What do the scriptures say. Lets be guided by the scripture not by the wafflings of fallible men.

John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Clearly therefore if we do not do the things which the Lord commands then we are not his friends.
Are we followers of Jesus or not? If we are then we should take the same approach as Christ. We must choose friends who keep his commandments.

If you befriend an evildoer then you are committing adultery with the world as explained here in James.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Someone even mentioned churchgoers boasting about their exploits. This is one of the most shameful things I have heard lately. The gay guys approaching a Christian for friendship. The Christian man caught in pornography. But this is far worse. Worshipping God on Sunday and rampant sin during the week and boasting about it in the small group meeting. This is an utter abomination, utter wickedness. Surely the Lord will bring judgement on the house of God for this misdeed. Surely the Lord will purge his church of this impurity.

The Bible teaches that we should not even eat or have any association with such a brother or sister who professes Christ and yet persists and boasts in sin.

1 Cor 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, .. deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus... 7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person
So clearly these wicked women must be purged from the church, and if the pastor is weak, which is highly likely, then you must shun and ignore these vile women. And if that becomes impossible because there are too many of them, then with regret and sadness you must leave that fellowship and find a body of true saints to fellowship with.

The passage in 1 Cor 5:1 concedes that we may have to keep company with fornicators in the world as part of our daily operations of making a living. But this is far different to making them our friends and bringing them into our fellowship. But if the fornicator calls himself a Christian and a brother then we are taught to not have anything to do with the fornicating Christian AT ALL.

There is too much feel-good tolerance of the world being expressed in these posts. Are we going to be led by the spirit-child within and the precepts of this world. Or are we going to be led by the pure and Holy Spirit of God which reveals all truth to us from the pages of the Holy Scripture. Smarten up people of God lest you be carried away with the depravity of this present evil age.

What fellowship can darkness have with light?
What common ground can good have with evil?

How good a friend can you be to someone who is lost?
What intimacy can there be between one who serves God,,,and one who follows Satan? (intimacy meaning relationship,,,not physical)

Theres a difference in being a friendly witness, and being a friend.
(and something about being unevenly yolked comes to mind)


Does letting yourself be listed as this persons friend give a message to others who might see?
What possible message could be twisted?
Could it be seen as an endorsement to other onlookers who dont know you or your friend?

Will it be interprited as,,,hey,,,this guy and Tom are just one of so an so's friends,,,,
OR
John Doe is Gay, and has 135 friends who endorse his choice,,,1 of them is even a christian.

This is definately a black and white issue, if you list them on your myspace friends page, and someone visits them, will they not go on to see all that are listed on their site with various links to all kinds of evil. You have allowed yourself to be opened up for this by excepting them in the begining, and now a hard decision must be reached. I will pray that God will give you wisdom to handle this, without destroying them, and leaving the door open to minister to their need of Christ. As stated earlier, God looks at all sins the same, theres no little and big, just sin. I just keep feeling that wisdom is needed, Provs.4:11 I have taught thee in the way of wisdom; I have led thee in right paths. Prov.9:1 Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars. You need to pray yourself for wisdom before you do anything to drastic, the Lord can lead you, and turn this around for the good if you will listen for that small still voice. We are all quick to give advice, no doubt trying to help, but maybe we should all be praying for her too. Mouser