Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Storm Rider
Christian-Forum.net > Current Events > Signs of the Times
Gavrial
AS CONDI MADE PLANS to divide God's land last week look who was riding the storm?

click link http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=98511

February 2nd cometh America Woe Wail the day

We are almost into the last quarter of the 'vision' of 2300 days if you believe it RUN WITH IT warn your relatives, neighbors and anyone who will listen. Now is the time to return to their first love Yeshua, who is their only hope. If they won't listen tell them a storm is soon coming, maybe they'll call out his name in the time of trouble and you have planted the seed.

REPENT the Kingdom of God is at hand make your election SURE

We've been deceived study the 'detailed report' Giving Him the glory, gavrial
signet
QUOTE(Gavrial @ Jan 25 2007, 01:07 AM) [snapback]99822[/snapback]

AS CONDI MADE PLANS to divide God's land last week look who was riding the storm?

click link http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=98511

February 2nd cometh America Woe Wail the day

We are almost into the last quarter of the 'vision' of 2300 days if you believe it RUN WITH IT warn your relatives, neighbors and anyone who will listen. Now is the time to return to their first love Yeshua, who is their only hope. If they won't listen tell them a storm is soon coming, maybe they'll call out his name in the time of trouble and you have planted the seed.

REPENT the Kingdom of God is at hand make your election SURE

We've been deceived study the 'detailed report' Giving Him the glory, gavrial



thank you.

whatever time we are in...now is the time for
the kingdom of God is at hand.

signet
Miki
The crown of life is the only thing you can pack in your smallsuit case when the life boat comes.
Divorce your self from the world now so that in it's hour of need you will be in the strong and high tower of the Lord...Giving hope, instruction and rebuke when needed in Jesus name.
wernotalone
1dsz5e4.gif Good advice and not to be taken lightly...Miki remember the dream I had when I first came to Christian net...about the dragon from the Sea and I left on a ship? Wow, God lead me here to be in felllowship with beleivers. I am sooooo thankful he did...I love you all. May we continue to look to Christ in all we do and say, stay grounded in his word. wub.gif
HumbleDon
Hello and God bless all

Is it possible that there is a connection between the weather lately and the two witnesses?

Thanks,Don
ManDain
The two witnesses won't have power until 3 and 1/2 years after the rapture. And the rapture isn't supposed to take place until after Israel gives the west bank to palestine... then we can look to the skies. The church is taken away before the earth quakes with God's vengenace.
Miki
I don't remember all the details but l do remember it some what.
mmddll
John is told (Revelation 11) to measure the temple (Jerusalem) and the worshippers inside. The two witnesses are prophesying it's destruction (like Jesus said "Destroy this temple and in 3 days I shall raise it up"). The outer court is being trampled by the gentiles (dividing the land and scattering God's people, whom God promised He would bring them back into their own land)



God's temple (body of Christ) is described by Paul the apostle as an olive tree (Romans 11), the gentile believer's being wild olive branches who have been grafted in. The two witnesses are described as olive trees and lamps= the body of Christ.



QUOTE
Romans11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.



QUOTE


Revelation 11



2But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

3And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. 4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.





The roadmap to peace is based on a false "replacement theology"

Miki
QUOTE(ManDain @ Jan 31 2007, 08:41 PM) [snapback]100452[/snapback]

The two witnesses won't have power until 3 and 1/2 years after the rapture. And the rapture isn't supposed to take place until after Israel gives the west bank to palestine... then we can look to the skies. The church is taken away before the earth quakes with God's vengenace.


Way to put in a nut shell!
George
QUOTE(ManDain @ Jan 31 2007, 12:41 PM) [snapback]100452[/snapback]

The two witnesses won't have power until 3 and 1/2 years after the rapture. And the rapture isn't supposed to take place until after Israel gives the west bank to palestine... then we can look to the skies. The church is taken away before the earth quakes with God's vengenace.


The two witnesses have power now and there is no rapture. You have been listening to man, the devil, and not asking God.
George
QUOTE(mmddll @ Jan 31 2007, 02:56 PM) [snapback]100464[/snapback]

John is told (Revelation 11) to measure the temple (Jerusalem) and the worshippers inside. The two witnesses are prophesying it's destruction (like Jesus said "Destroy this temple and in 3 days I shall raise it up"). The outer court is being trampled by the gentiles (dividing the land and scattering God's people, whom God promised He would bring them back into their own land)



God's temple (body of Christ) is described by Paul the apostle as an olive tree (Romans 11), the gentile believer's being wild olive branches who have been grafted in. The two witnesses are described as olive trees and lamps= the body of Christ.



QUOTE
Romans11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.



QUOTE


Revelation 11



2But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

3And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. 4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.





The roadmap to peace is based on a false "replacement theology"


You bumped your head over on worthyboards. Christ fulfilled the replacement theology. He moved Israel from the flesh to the Spirit and from a nation of bloodline to a nation of Faith. Everyone who belongs to Christ is the only Israel that will survive. If your eyes remain in the flesh admiring those who are not a people you will perish with them.
mmddll
God has not abandoned Israel permanently. Jesus Christ came so that the Gentiles might be saved, but we never replaced Israel. God will curse those who curse the apple of His eye. May 14, 1948 is proof He still has plans for the nation of Israel. Alot of what Ezekiel wrote hasn't happened yet. There are alot of Jews who have accepted Christ, and to think that the pagan world replaced Israel borders on Naziism and Muslim extremism..



P.S. I understand that bloodlines make no difference in Christ, but at the same time, God had chosen Israel to glorify His name, and nothing has changed. He will save the nation of Israel for His glory, not theirs. We who are not Jews were grafted in according to His grace and He can remove us just as easily as he has removed the non believing Jews.

mmddll
QUOTE
Listen again to what he said through Ezek 36 which we looked at before – Verse 22-24 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD, declares the Sovereign LORD, when I show myself holy through you before their eyes.

You believe that because of Israel’s sin and unfaithfulness, God has replaced them with the church and God will not fulfill His promises to them as a nation. (Such as your example of Isaiah 2 where you took a clear prophecy of Israel’s future in the Millennial Kingdom and apply it to the church.) But look at what God says above – it isn’t because of Israel’s faithfulness, but Gods that leads to God fulfilling his promises to that nation!



http://www.jesusplusnothing.com/questions/IsraelsFuture.htm

bonomike
QUOTE
You bumped your head over on worthyboards. Christ fulfilled the replacement theology. He moved Israel from the flesh to the Spirit and from a nation of bloodline to a nation of Faith. Everyone who belongs to Christ is the only Israel that will survive. If your eyes remain in the flesh admiring those who are not a people you will perish with them.


Hence the need to closely examine the scriptures and filter our beliefs through them.

Let's look at Romans 11 again: 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

How many branches off the vine were broken off? Some, not all.

We that have been grafted in certainly need not boast against those that remain of the house of Israel.

Yes, there is a spiritual Israel. God will call those of physical Israel to that spiritual vine in a final act of ultimate grace and mercy made possible by the blood of Jesus Christ, such that even a remnant of physical Israel will be saved.

For further Biblical research, check out these scriptures:

Gen 17:7 speaks of an unconditional everlasting covenant with the physical seed of Abraham.
Lev 26:44-45 shows that Israel.s restoration was not to be conditional.
Isa 11:11 speaks of a second restoration of the Jews.
Isa 26:20-27:1 speaks of afinal hiding of the children of Israel followed by Satan.s complete judgment.
Isa 27:12-13, in context with the above, speaks of a final re-gathering of Israel.
Jer 30:4-8 speaks of the time of Jacob.s trouble and future restoration.
Jer 30:18-24 states that a restoration for the tents of Jacob will take place in the latter days, i.e.
not the first restoration of 536BC.
Jer 31:35-37 speaks of the permanent nation of Israel.
Jer 33:24-26 is a definitive unconditional covenant with Jacob.s descendants.
Eze 16:60-63 speaks of an unconditional everlasting covenant with the Jews.
Eze 37:1-28 speaks of an unconditional future restoration of Israel, followed closely by Armageddon in Exe 38-39.
Hos 11:9-10 speaks of a future restoration of Israel from the West.
Joe 3:1-3 predicts the restoration of Judah, followed by Armageddon.
Amo 9:11-15 speaks of an Israel restored to the land.
Zec 8:8 speaks of a post-exilic, unconditional restoration of the Jews to Jerusalem and the land.
Zec 10 and 12 are more prophecies of a future restoration of the Jews.
Zec 14 speaks of Armageddon, with the Jews in Jerusalem.
Luk 21:24 speaks of a dispersion, the time of the Gentiles, and a restoration following.
Rom 11:11 states that the Jews have not fallen so as to be lost.
Rom 11:17 states that only some of the branches were broken off.
Rom 11:17 states that the church was grafted in among the Jews.
Rom 11:28 states that the gospel-age Jews are still elect.
Rom 11:29 states that God.s calling of the Jews is irrevocable.
Rev 7:4-9 speaks of the 12 tribes of Israel in the Christian Era.
Rev 12:1-6 speaks of Israel in the Christian Era.
Rev 15:3 is a passage primarily about the Christian Era; there are two songs, one for the Jews, one for the Gentile church.

Above references from "The False Prophet" chapters 1-9 by Ellis Skolfield, pg. 63. www.ellisskolfield.com.

May the Lord Jesus Christ be glorified now and forever.

In Him,

Mike
dennis mann
Romans 11;26 amplified bible
And so all Israel will be saved.

Ath End-of-Trib, the un-saved Jews who survive the Trib, will PHYSICALLY see Jesus Return to the Promised Land, .........THEN ***ALL*** those Jews will believe in Jesus, and will be saved. BUT! Not with Spiritual Salvation. They were looking for a PHYSICAL Sign, Savior, Salvation, Kingdom, ........so, they will get a PHYSICAL Salvation , and they will enter the Millenium Reign as mortals.

We Christians (today) believed in Jesus BEFORE we (Physically) saw Jesus, so we gat a SPIRITUAL SALVATION from sin, and we will enter the Mill Reign as immortals.

When will Zechariah 8;23 be fufilled? In the Mill Reign.
George
The great multitude is out of every nation tribe and tongue and the 144,000 are out of every nation tribe and tongue. There is no scripture in the new testament that says that any whole nation of the flesh makes it. Only a remnant from everywhere. No one else makes it. Those who reject Christ will suffer the consequences.
dennis mann
Genesis 17;7-8 amplified bible
an everlasting covenant.........God gave to Abraham and to his posterity after him the land (the Promised Land) , all the land of Canaan for AN EVERLASTING POSSESSION

acts 7;5
God promised that God would give Canaan to Abraham for a PERMANENT POSSESSION and to his descendants after him, even though as yet he had no child.

Replacement theology is false.
God never promised Canaan (or any other PHYSICAL land) to the Christian Church.
If the Church has replaced Israel, then, why don't we occupy Israel, the Promised Land?
If we own the Promised Land, then, we need to be certain that the Land enjoys it's Sabbath-year rest every 7th year.
Why doesn't Bush and Condi give Gaza, Judea, and the Golan Heights to the Church?
The Truth is: The Church did not replace the nation Israel.

Jesus said "The meek shall inherit the earth". The meek include Jesus, the OT Saints, and the NT Saints.


But, sadly, many people don't believe that God promised the Promised Land to Abraham, Issac, Israel.

203 times in the Bible, Jesus calls Himself "the God of Israel".
George
QUOTE(dennis mann @ Feb 9 2007, 07:22 PM) [snapback]101536[/snapback]

Genesis 17;7-8 amplified bible
an everlasting covenant.........God gave to Abraham and to his posterity after him the land (the Promised Land) , all the land of Canaan for AN EVERLASTING POSSESSION

acts 7;5
God promised that God would give Canaan to Abraham for a PERMANENT POSSESSION and to his descendants after him, even though as yet he had no child.

Replacement theology is false.
God never promised Canaan (or any other PHYSICAL land) to the Christian Church.
If the Church has replaced Israel, then, why don't we occupy Israel, the Promised Land?
If we own the Promised Land, then, we need to be certain that the Land enjoys it's Sabbath-year rest every 7th year.
Why doesn't Bush and Condi give Gaza, Judea, and the Golan Heights to the Church?
The Truth is: The Church did not replace the nation Israel.

Jesus said "The meek shall inherit the earth". The meek include Jesus, the OT Saints, and the NT Saints.


But, sadly, many people don't believe that God promised the Promised Land to Abraham, Issac, Israel.

203 times in the Bible, Jesus calls Himself "the God of Israel".


Has everyone gone mad. Who gives a hoot about replacement theology? That is just a title that ignorant people who want to worship a group of people made up. The truth is the truth and the Scriptures plainly state it. The covenant of faith is the only way into the kingdom. Abraham pleased God by faith.

Galatians 3
16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed," who is Christ.

Romans 4
For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
dennis mann
In OT times, only a few of Abraham's blood-line descendants "believed God" and were saved, by faith. The majority of the children of Israel were un-believers, and were not "saved from their sins".

2000 years ago, ALL of the Israelites SHOULD have become Christians, by faith. But, only a Few believed and were saved.

2000 years ago, ALL Gentiles SHOULD have believed and got saved, but only a FEW believed.

Today, when a Non-messianic jew dies, he dies un-saved.

BUT! how will Romans 11;26 be fulfilled? amplified bible
And so all Israel will be saved.

It can only happen when ALL of the Jewish Trib-survivors PHYSICALLY see Jesus Return, and THEN, ALL of them will be saved, by faith. BUT! they believed ONLY after they saw Jesus with PHYSICAL vision. Which is a very different "faith" from OUR faith (today). We believed without SEEING Jesus. We have an invisible God. We found jesus to be attractive in a Spiritual way.
Romans 11;26 speaks of "ALL ISRAEL" which will believe ONLY when they see Jesus with PHYSICAL vision.
dennis mann





deut 28;63-64
God will bring ALL israelites from ALL the nations, and will bring them back into your own (Promised) Land

this fulfillment is in the future.

romans 9;1-3
the nation israel has NOT been replaced by the church.
paul wished that he could be eternally damned and lost, if that would save his brethren and natural kinsmen, and his fellow countrymen.
(so, it's obvious that the non-messianic israelites were un-saved. and it's obvious that the Church has not replaced israel. Here, Paul laments that israel (not the Church) is un-saved.

romans 11;31
paul says : israel is now un-saved, but, they will be saved "one day" (in the future)

dennis mann




Ezekiel 39;7,22
God said "I will make My Holy Name known in Israel; and I will not let them pollute My holy Name any more...........Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day and forward"

this is in the future at Armegeddon

ALL Isarel will SEE and BELIEVE at Armegeddon

Eze 39;29
God will pour out His Spirit upon the house of Israel , at Arrmageddon.

Not one Jew will be left in the world outside of the Promised Land, at Armegeddon

All Israelites will be miraculously brought back to the Land, in time for Armegeddon.

Matthew 24......"they shall see the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. and He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together [back to israel] his elect from the four winds.







There is a PHYSICAL elect (the blood-line descendants of Abraham)
and a Spiritual Elect (those who are FAITHFUL as Abraham was).

BEFORE Armegeddon, the PHYSICAL Elect (if they die without faith) are still in their sins.

AFTER Armegeddon, the PHYSICAL Elect get a PHYSICAL salvation (not a SPIRITUAL Salvation).
BEFORE Armegededon, they rejected the Spiritual Christ, Kingdom, Spirit, Fruits, things of God,.........and they looked for a PHYSICAL Savior, Kingdom, Salvation ...........so they'll get what they wanted (and deserve)...........a PHYSICAL salvation








And, of course, a SPIRITUAL salvation is infinitely better than a PHYSICAL salvation.

Jesus told (doubting) Thomas, "You have believed because you have seen Me and My Wounds. Blessed! are they who have not seen , and yet, believed."
George
QUOTE(dennis mann @ Feb 10 2007, 02:06 AM) [snapback]101582[/snapback]

In OT times, only a few of Abraham's blood-line descendants "believed God" and were saved, by faith. The majority of the children of Israel were un-believers, and were not "saved from their sins".

2000 years ago, ALL of the Israelites SHOULD have become Christians, by faith. But, only a Few believed and were saved.

2000 years ago, ALL Gentiles SHOULD have believed and got saved, but only a FEW believed.

Today, when a Non-messianic jew dies, he dies un-saved.

BUT! how will Romans 11;26 be fulfilled? amplified bible
And so all Israel will be saved.

It can only happen when ALL of the Jewish Trib-survivors PHYSICALLY see Jesus Return, and THEN, ALL of them will be saved, by faith. BUT! they believed ONLY after they saw Jesus with PHYSICAL vision. Which is a very different "faith" from OUR faith (today). We believed without SEEING Jesus. We have an invisible God. We found jesus to be attractive in a Spiritual way.
Romans 11;26 speaks of "ALL ISRAEL" which will believe ONLY when they see Jesus with PHYSICAL vision.


All of Israel will be saved
because all who are saved are Israel.
There is no other Israel but the Israel of Faith.
Why is that not sinking in?


This is the total sum of all of the survivors of the great tribulation. There are no others except of course Christ's 144,000 Saints, Firsfruits, elect, Holy messengers(Angels) ,and Christ's two witnesses, 12 apostles, 24 elders, 4 living creatures.

Revelation 7
9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,
10 and crying out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!"
13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?"
14 And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them.
16 They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; 17 for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."
bonomike
QUOTE
All of Israel will be saved
because all who are saved are Israel.
There is no other Israel but the Israel of Faith.
Why is that not sinking in?


Because the scriptures are speaking louder than the traditions of men.

I've been watching you two bat this back and forth. Earlier I posted no less than 24 scripture passages of God's attitude toward the Jews. I'll post them again below, but first...

I just noticed something interesting about the Romans 11 passage. Check out the words in bold:

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. (In other words, God doesn't change his mind.)

Let's look at Romans 11 again: 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

How many branches off the vine were broken off? Some, not all.

We that have been grafted in certainly need not boast against those that remain of the house of Israel.

Yes, there is a spiritual Israel. God will call those of physical Israel to that spiritual vine in a final act of ultimate grace and mercy made possible by the blood of Jesus Christ, such that even a remnant (those left after much tribulation) of physical Israel will be saved. This is in accordance to the Romans 11 passage quoted at the first, with key words in bold.

Now, what of these scriptures?

Gen 17:7 speaks of an unconditional everlasting covenant with the physical seed of Abraham.
Lev 26:44-45 shows that Israel.s restoration was not to be conditional.
Isa 11:11 speaks of a second restoration of the Jews.
Isa 26:20-27:1 speaks of afinal hiding of the children of Israel followed by Satan's complete judgment.
Isa 27:12-13, in context with the above, speaks of a final re-gathering of Israel.
Jer 30:4-8 speaks of the time of Jacob's trouble and future restoration.
Jer 30:18-24 states that a restoration for the tents of Jacob will take place in the latter days, i.e.
not the first restoration of 536BC.
Jer 31:35-37 speaks of the permanent nation of Israel.
Jer 33:24-26 is a definitive unconditional covenant with Jacob.s descendants.
Eze 16:60-63 speaks of an unconditional everlasting covenant with the Jews.
Eze 37:1-28 speaks of an unconditional future restoration of Israel, followed closely by Armageddon in Exe 38-39.
Hos 11:9-10 speaks of a future restoration of Israel from the West.
Joe 3:1-3 predicts the restoration of Judah, followed by Armageddon.
Amo 9:11-15 speaks of an Israel restored to the land.
Zec 8:8 speaks of a post-exilic, unconditional restoration of the Jews to Jerusalem and the land.
Zec 10 and 12 are more prophecies of a future restoration of the Jews.
Zec 14 speaks of Armageddon, with the Jews in Jerusalem.
Luk 21:24 speaks of a dispersion, the time of the Gentiles, and a restoration following.
Rom 11:11 states that the Jews have not fallen so as to be lost.
Rom 11:17 states that only some of the branches were broken off.
Rom 11:17 states that the church was grafted in among the Jews.
Rom 11:28 states that the gospel-age Jews are still elect.
Rom 11:29 states that God.s calling of the Jews is irrevocable.
Rev 7:4-9 speaks of the 12 tribes of Israel in the Christian Era.
Rev 12:1-6 speaks of Israel in the Christian Era.
Rev 15:3 is a passage primarily about the Christian Era; there are two songs, one for the Jews, one for the Gentile church.

Above references from "The False Prophet" chapters 1-9 by Ellis Skolfield, pg. 63. www.ellisskolfield.com.

May the Lord Jesus Christ be glorified now and forever.

In Him,

Mike

dennis mann
Many people say that , in the NT , after Pentecost, in the Church age,.........."Israel" is code for the Church.
This belief is called Replacement Theology, meaning:........The Christian Church has replaced Israel, and .......God has no further plans for the nation (physical) Israel.

Romans 9;1-4
here , paul laments that israel (meaning the Christian Church?) is not saved! And Israel (the church?) is cut off from christ?!?

No, the Truth is:........romans chapters 9-11 is primarily concerned with the (physical, bloodline) nation Israel.

The 144,000 is 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel...........No way can that be Gentiles. It is Blood-line Israel.

George
QUOTE(bonomike @ Feb 10 2007, 03:09 PM) [snapback]101646[/snapback]

QUOTE
All of Israel will be saved
because all who are saved are Israel.
There is no other Israel but the Israel of Faith.
Why is that not sinking in?


Because the scriptures are speaking louder than the traditions of men.

I've been watching you two bat this back and forth. Earlier I posted no less than 24 scripture passages of God's attitude toward the Jews. I'll post them again below, but first...

I just noticed something interesting about the Romans 11 passage. Check out the words in bold:

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. (In other words, God doesn't change his mind.)

Let's look at Romans 11 again: 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

How many branches off the vine were broken off? Some, not all.

We that have been grafted in certainly need not boast against those that remain of the house of Israel.

Yes, there is a spiritual Israel. God will call those of physical Israel to that spiritual vine in a final act of ultimate grace and mercy made possible by the blood of Jesus Christ, such that even a remnant (those left after much tribulation) of physical Israel will be saved. This is in accordance to the Romans 11 passage quoted at the first, with key words in bold.

Now, what of these scriptures?

Gen 17:7 speaks of an unconditional everlasting covenant with the physical seed of Abraham.

Paul spoke about this and shined the light on it. He said Galatians 3
16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed," who is Christ.

So you see you are wrong and are contradicting the Covenant of Faith that Christ delivered to us.

Lev 26:44-45 shows that Israel.s restoration was not to be conditional.
Isa 11:11 speaks of a second restoration of the Jews.
Isa 26:20-27:1 speaks of afinal hiding of the children of Israel followed by Satan's complete judgment.
Isa 27:12-13, in context with the above, speaks of a final re-gathering of Israel.
Jer 30:4-8 speaks of the time of Jacob's trouble and future restoration.
Jer 30:18-24 states that a restoration for the tents of Jacob will take place in the latter days, i.e.
not the first restoration of 536BC.
Jer 31:35-37 speaks of the permanent nation of Israel.
Jer 33:24-26 is a definitive unconditional covenant with Jacob.s descendants.
Eze 16:60-63 speaks of an unconditional everlasting covenant with the Jews.
Eze 37:1-28 speaks of an unconditional future restoration of Israel, followed closely by Armageddon in Exe 38-39.
Hos 11:9-10 speaks of a future restoration of Israel from the West.
Joe 3:1-3 predicts the restoration of Judah, followed by Armageddon.
Amo 9:11-15 speaks of an Israel restored to the land.
Zec 8:8 speaks of a post-exilic, unconditional restoration of the Jews to Jerusalem and the land.
Zec 10 and 12 are more prophecies of a future restoration of the Jews.
Zec 14 speaks of Armageddon, with the Jews in Jerusalem.
Luk 21:24 speaks of a dispersion, the time of the Gentiles, and a restoration following.
Rom 11:11 states that the Jews have not fallen so as to be lost.
Rom 11:17 states that only some of the branches were broken off.
Rom 11:17 states that the church was grafted in among the Jews.
Rom 11:28 states that the gospel-age Jews are still elect.
Rom 11:29 states that God.s calling of the Jews is irrevocable.
Rev 7:4-9 speaks of the 12 tribes of Israel in the Christian Era.
Rev 12:1-6 speaks of Israel in the Christian Era.
Rev 15:3 is a passage primarily about the Christian Era; there are two songs, one for the Jews, one for the Gentile church.

Above references from "The False Prophet" chapters 1-9 by Ellis Skolfield, pg. 63. www.ellisskolfield.com.

May the Lord Jesus Christ be glorified now and forever.

In Him,

Mike


The old covenant of the flesh through the law is dismantled and is no more.

Hebrews 8
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


________________________________________________________


The seed that the promise was made to was Christ and his elect. Paul teaches it. But if you reject His teaching who am I to try and straighten you out. But for those who view this thread who can read hear and understand Here is the Scripture.

Galatians 3
16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed," who is Christ.


______________________________________________________


The Covenant of faith delivered by Christ is the only way to God. There is no other way for anyone. Everyone who rejects Christ and does not repent befor Christ rises and closes the door, will be condemed no mater who they are. There has never been any special treatment for those who kill Gods messengers but instead destruction.

Romans 4
For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
mmddll
Here's a question for you, Godsloft.



Did Jesus reject Paul (Saul) who was a pharisee, when he persecuted and had Christians killed? What makes the current nation of Israel (or any nation for that matter) any different? If God wants to save Israel, there's nothing you can do to stop it.

George
QUOTE(mmddll @ Feb 11 2007, 06:00 AM) [snapback]101703[/snapback]

Here's a question for you, Godsloft.



Did Jesus reject Paul (Saul) who was a pharisee, when he persecuted and had Christians killed? What makes the current nation of Israel (or any nation for that matter) any different? If God wants to save Israel, there's nothing you can do to stop it.



God has saved Israel mmddll. Every one of them who's names are written in the Lambs book of life will come to Zion with singing, With everlasting joy on their heads.

Now I have a question for you mmddll.
God chose the Jewish race to send forth His Son into the world. Do you worship the Son because He is God or because He was Jewish?

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.


9 And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10 And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth."
mmddll
I understand all of that, so would God bring back the nation of "physical" Israel (unbelieving as most of them are) just to deceive us? I think He brought the nation back so that His name would be glorified after the attempted genocide by Hitler. Has the Magog war happened yet? No, there's nothing in history that matches that event yet, and it is clearly an attack against Israel after they return to the promised land. No offense, but it seems to me you are deliberately overlooking prophecies that have yet to come to pass that deal with the tribes of Israel, and I suspect that 144,000 is a symbolic number just as 666 is symbolic. If Islam were to wipe Israel off of the map as most of them wish to do, what would be said of the Christian God then? God's concern is not glorifying Israel, but His own glory by keeping His promises, and the promise to Israel is irrevocable. We'll just have to disagree on that point and leave it there. I'll even let you have the last word.
George
QUOTE(mmddll @ Feb 11 2007, 03:29 PM) [snapback]101753[/snapback]

I understand all of that, so would God bring back the nation of "physical" Israel (unbelieving as most of them are) just to deceive us? I think He brought the nation back so that His name would be glorified after the attempted genocide by Hitler. Has the Magog war happened yet? No, there's nothing in history that matches that event yet, and it is clearly an attack against Israel after they return to the promised land. No offense, but it seems to me you are deliberately overlooking prophecies that have yet to come to pass that deal with the tribes of Israel, and I suspect that 144,000 is a symbolic number just as 666 is symbolic. If Islam were to wipe Israel off of the map as most of them wish to do, what would be said of the Christian God then? God's concern is not glorifying Israel, but His own glory by keeping His promises, and the promise to Israel is irrevocable. We'll just have to disagree on that point and leave it there. I'll even let you have the last word.

God did not bring back the nation of "physical" Israel. The beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit brought themselves back by doing what deceived men do. Likewise those who believe that God brought back a nation who rejects Him, in that state, deceives themselves. God raised Hitler for the purpose that he served the same as He raised Pharaoh for the purpose that he served. But this one thing has always been the case throughout history "if men are believing it and serving it" "it is wrong". The twisted imaginations of man have alway twisted and perverted the truth of God. So if it is a popular belief you better turn to God in the Spirit and ask for the truth.

21 They have provoked Me to jealousy by what is not God; They have moved Me to anger by their foolish idols. But I will provoke them to jealousy by those who are not a nation; I will move them to anger by a foolish nation.

17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth."
18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?"
20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?"
21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,
24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

bonomike
Godsloft,

QUOTE
The Covenant of faith delivered by Christ is the only way to God. There is no other way for anyone. Everyone who rejects Christ and does not repent befor Christ rises and closes the door, will be condemed no mater who they are.


Is this what you think is being argued; that there is a different way for the Jews to be saved? That's not it at all. The fact is that we all (Jews and Gentiles) come to Christ the same way--the Father draws us by his Holy Spirit, we respond in conviction of sin. We repent and come to faith in Jesus Christ--yielding our very lives to his lordship.

What's being said is that due to the grace of God to "choose" the Israelites in the first place to reveal his Son through, that same grace is going to bring God to go to great lengths in these last days to draw them with many infallible proofs, just as Jesus showed himself to doubting Thomas.

QUOTE
There has never been any special treatment for those who kill Gods messengers but instead destruction.


Let's not forget that you and me are just as guilty of murder of God's beloved as the Jews. The Father had to crush his Son to pay for our sin.

While there has been plenty of scriptures listed to argue the point that today's Jews are as chosen for salvation as they ever were (through repentance and faith in Jesus), world events will soon make it so clear as to be undeniable.

A simple observation of most of the world's attitude toward Israel reveals Satan's attitude toward them as well. The world, and Satan, hate them. If God has indeed written them off, they would be the least of Satan's targets to persecute. However, that just isn't the case. Satan is as hell-bent as ever to destroy our older brothers (once they come to Christ) as he ever was. Israel, which virtually disappeared from existence, is back, and wouldn't you know--the whole world is focused on one, tiny, little, insignificant country on the East side of the Mediterranean Sea.

Another observation will reveal how the more land America and/or Europeans take from Israel and give to the Palestinians, the more judgment from God will come upon them. In fact, it's already been happening. Every time America urges Israel to give up land for peace, BAM!, we get hit with a disaster.

In any case, neither your thoughts or my thoughts on the matter really make any difference toward our salvation in Christ. Let God be true, and every man a liar. I'm certain we can both agree on that.

May Christ be glorified.

In Him,

Mike
signet
QUOTE(bonomike @ Feb 13 2007, 08:32 PM) [snapback]102027[/snapback]

Godsloft,

QUOTE
The Covenant of faith delivered by Christ is the only way to God. There is no other way for anyone. Everyone who rejects Christ and does not repent befor Christ rises and closes the door, will be condemed no mater who they are.


Is this what you think is being argued; that there is a different way for the Jews to be saved? That's not it at all. The fact is that we all (Jews and Gentiles) come to Christ the same way--the Father draws us by his Holy Spirit, we respond in conviction of sin. We repent and come to faith in Jesus Christ--yielding our very lives to his lordship.

What's being said is that due to the grace of God to "choose" the Israelites in the first place to reveal his Son through, that same grace is going to bring God to go to great lengths in these last days to draw them with many infallible proofs, just as Jesus showed himself to doubting Thomas.

QUOTE
There has never been any special treatment for those who kill Gods messengers but instead destruction.


Let's not forget that you and me are just as guilty of murder of God's beloved as the Jews. The Father had to crush his Son to pay for our sin.

While there has been plenty of scriptures listed to argue the point that today's Jews are as chosen for salvation as they ever were (through repentance and faith in Jesus), world events will soon make it so clear as to be undeniable.

A simple observation of most of the world's attitude toward Israel reveals Satan's attitude toward them as well. The world, and Satan, hate them. If God has indeed written them off, they would be the least of Satan's targets to persecute. However, that just isn't the case. Satan is as hell-bent as ever to destroy our older brothers (once they come to Christ) as he ever was. Israel, which virtually disappeared from existence, is back, and wouldn't you know--the whole world is focused on one, tiny, little, insignificant country on the East side of the Mediterranean Sea.

Another observation will reveal how the more land America and/or Europeans take from Israel and give to the Palestinians, the more judgment from God will come upon them. In fact, it's already been happening. Every time America urges Israel to give up land for peace, BAM!, we get hit with a disaster.

In any case, neither your thoughts or my thoughts on the matter really make any difference toward our salvation in Christ. Let God be true, and every man a liar. I'm certain we can both agree on that.

May Christ be glorified.

In Him,

Mike



Good word!

Signet
George
QUOTE(signet @ Feb 13 2007, 07:32 PM) [snapback]102042[/snapback]

QUOTE(bonomike @ Feb 13 2007, 08:32 PM) [snapback]102027[/snapback]

Godsloft,

QUOTE
The Covenant of faith delivered by Christ is the only way to God. There is no other way for anyone. Everyone who rejects Christ and does not repent befor Christ rises and closes the door, will be condemed no mater who they are.


Is this what you think is being argued; that there is a different way for the Jews to be saved? That's not it at all. The fact is that we all (Jews and Gentiles) come to Christ the same way--the Father draws us by his Holy Spirit, we respond in conviction of sin. We repent and come to faith in Jesus Christ--yielding our very lives to his lordship.

What's being said is that due to the grace of God to "choose" the Israelites in the first place to reveal his Son through, that same grace is going to bring God to go to great lengths in these last days to draw them with many infallible proofs, just as Jesus showed himself to doubting Thomas.

QUOTE
There has never been any special treatment for those who kill Gods messengers but instead destruction.


Let's not forget that you and me are just as guilty of murder of God's beloved as the Jews. The Father had to crush his Son to pay for our sin.

While there has been plenty of scriptures listed to argue the point that today's Jews are as chosen for salvation as they ever were (through repentance and faith in Jesus), world events will soon make it so clear as to be undeniable.

A simple observation of most of the world's attitude toward Israel reveals Satan's attitude toward them as well. The world, and Satan, hate them. If God has indeed written them off, they would be the least of Satan's targets to persecute. However, that just isn't the case. Satan is as hell-bent as ever to destroy our older brothers (once they come to Christ) as he ever was. Israel, which virtually disappeared from existence, is back, and wouldn't you know--the whole world is focused on one, tiny, little, insignificant country on the East side of the Mediterranean Sea.

Another observation will reveal how the more land America and/or Europeans take from Israel and give to the Palestinians, the more judgment from God will come upon them. In fact, it's already been happening. Every time America urges Israel to give up land for peace, BAM!, we get hit with a disaster.

In any case, neither your thoughts or my thoughts on the matter really make any difference toward our salvation in Christ. Let God be true, and every man a liar. I'm certain we can both agree on that.

May Christ be glorified.

In Him,

Mike



Good word!

Signet


Only God is good. The only parts that are good are the parts not interjected with mans views.
Such as "You and me are just as guilty of murder of God's beloved as the Jews".
I am not guilty. I have accepted the new covenant of faith and put the quilty party to death at foot of the cross.
I don't know what you are doing with the forgiveness that Christ has offered to those who will repent and receive it, but once forgiveness has been received from God who is able to convict of guilt.
If you have read the scripture that states that none are righteous no not one and have used it as a cloak for continuing in sin then weigh up the measure of your guilt. But Almighty God has forgiven me and granted my request for His Spirit to Inhabit this body and I assure you nothing is left of the former tenant who died. But all of this will come out into the Light real soon and all of the false gospels of man will soon be swept away by the Power of the Spirit of God.

4 These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God.

bonomike
QUOTE

Only God is good. The only parts that are good are the parts not interjected with mans views.
Such as "You and me are just as guilty of murder of God's beloved as the Jews".
I am not guilty. I have accepted the new covenant of faith and put the quilty party to death at foot of the cross.
I don't know what you are doing with the forgiveness that Christ has offered to those who will repent and receive it, but once forgiveness has been received from God who is able to convict of guilt.
If you have read the scripture that states that none are righteous no not one and have used it as a cloak for continuing in sin then weigh up the measure of your guilt. But Almighty God has forgiven me and granted my request for His Spirit to Inhabit this body and I assure you nothing is left of the former tenant who died. But all of this will come out into the Light real soon and all of the false gospels of man will soon be swept away by the Power of the Spirit of God.

4 These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God.



Just curious...how fast do you usually drive?

Mike
George
QUOTE(bonomike @ Feb 14 2007, 03:04 PM) [snapback]102173[/snapback]

QUOTE

Only God is good. The only parts that are good are the parts not interjected with mans views.
Such as "You and me are just as guilty of murder of God's beloved as the Jews".
I am not guilty. I have accepted the new covenant of faith and put the quilty party to death at foot of the cross.
I don't know what you are doing with the forgiveness that Christ has offered to those who will repent and receive it, but once forgiveness has been received from God who is able to convict of guilt.
If you have read the scripture that states that none are righteous no not one and have used it as a cloak for continuing in sin then weigh up the measure of your guilt. But Almighty God has forgiven me and granted my request for His Spirit to Inhabit this body and I assure you nothing is left of the former tenant who died. But all of this will come out into the Light real soon and all of the false gospels of man will soon be swept away by the Power of the Spirit of God.

4 These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God.



Just curious...how fast do you usually drive?

Mike

I don't have any need for driving. But I am curious as to why you would ask such a question. What is the relevance?
signet


...so are you in process?
George
QUOTE(signet @ Feb 14 2007, 09:10 PM) [snapback]102203[/snapback]

...so are you in process?

If you mean do I put off until tomorrow doing right today, the answer is no. If you mean do I follow the devils gospel chasing my tail around in circles, going nowhere, the answer is no. I am however in the process of waiting on the Lord for the word to go forth and then it's on. If you weren't talking to me then please disregard this reply.
bonomike
QUOTE
Only God is good. The only parts that are good are the parts not interjected with mans views.
Such as "You and me are just as guilty of murder of God's beloved as the Jews".
I am not guilty. I have accepted the new covenant of faith and put the quilty party to death at foot of the cross.


Well, of course. I'm talking about our pre-forgiveness state before God. We were all in the same boat of wrath before God's grace was bestowed upon us. So, let's not be pointing our fingers at the Jews.

QUOTE
I don't know what you are doing with the forgiveness that Christ has offered to those who will repent and receive it, but once forgiveness has been received from God who is able to convict of guilt.


True enough. "Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect?" Rom. 8:33

QUOTE
If you have read the scripture that states that none are righteous no not one and have used it as a cloak for continuing in sin then weigh up the measure of your guilt.


It's actually a better scripture for remembering where I've been, so that I don't think of myself more highly than I ought. (Rom. 12:3)

QUOTE
But Almighty God has forgiven me and granted my request for His Spirit to Inhabit this body and I assure you nothing is left of the former tenant who died.


Nothing is left? Could you list a few scriptures on this?

QUOTE

I don't have any need for driving. But I am curious as to why you would ask such a question. What is the relevance?


Nevermind. If you don't drive, the illustration is pointless.

In Christ,

Mike
George
QUOTE(bonomike @ Feb 15 2007, 07:28 PM) [snapback]102301[/snapback]



QUOTE
But Almighty God has forgiven me and granted my request for His Spirit to Inhabit this body and I assure you nothing is left of the former tenant who died.


Nothing is left? Could you list a few scriptures on this?


In Christ,

Mike

Ephesians 2
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Luke 11
13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Romans 8
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2009 Invision Power Services, Inc.