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duncdrewnoah
from revelation 18-the city babylon; I posted something like this last week but my studies have me asking a couple of questions...Im hoping someone out there can help me. here is some background: I believe the city of Dubai is babylon the city. I know this sounds crazy to most of you. But i ran across it while thinking i was going to prove that the vatican was the city. Dubai exports everything listed in rev 18...in fact, it is the only city in the world to do so. check it yourself and look at what they are building, truely a city like no other. i mistakenly posted last week that the anti was either the Shiekh of Dubai or his son...further reading of Revelation tells us that the anti and the 10 kings that are in power with him destroy babylon...2 things...1-i need insight on who these 10 kings will be ( i think it is 5 european and 5 arab based on daniels description of the 10 toes)

2-why would the 10 destroy dubai? (my guess is jealousy over dubais $$$ and world status)

also, if anyone can prove dubai is not babylon i would like to hear the evidence...I hate being wrong

thanks



1LikeDeborah
QUOTE(duncdrewnoah @ Jan 24 2007, 03:17 PM) [snapback]99786[/snapback]

from revelation 18-the city babylon; I posted something like this last week but my studies have me asking a couple of questions...Im hoping someone out there can help me. here is some background: I believe the city of Dubai is babylon the city. I know this sounds crazy to most of you. But i ran across it while thinking i was going to prove that the vatican was the city. Dubai exports everything listed in rev 18...in fact, it is the only city in the world to do so. check it yourself and look at what they are building, truely a city like no other. i mistakenly posted last week that the anti was either the Shiekh of Dubai or his son...further reading of Revelation tells us that the anti and the 10 kings that are in power with him destroy babylon...2 things...1-i need insight on who these 10 kings will be ( i think it is 5 european and 5 arab based on daniels description of the 10 toes)

2-why would the 10 destroy dubai? (my guess is jealousy over dubais $$$ and world status)

also, if anyone can prove dubai is not babylon i would like to hear the evidence...I hate being wrong

thanks


Its funny how you mention Dubai because over the weekend my mom brought this city up. She had watched a show on the manmade islands out there.

I would start by reading on what God's word says concerning Arabia and Edom and literal Babylon.(and much prayer for wisdom and understanding). Also notes on Arabia--- please note that Dedan, Sheba, are included with Arabia as well as Kedar and Nabiaoth(Nabateans). The Bible also mentiones specific cities--- like Hazor and Tema. Teman is a different city that was in Edom along with Bozra(Petra).

God's word says a lot about thse places in the latter times. There is no quick answer so you will have to search and study for yourself. And please on your studies do not leave anything unturned! When you do this you may find passages that others have overlooked.

An example of this below:

Numbers 24
14And now, behold, I go unto my people: come therefore, and I will advertise thee what this people shall do to thy people in the latter days. 15And he took up his parable, and said, Balaam the son of Beor hath said, and the man whose eyes are open hath said: 16He hath said, which heard the words of God, and knew the knowledge of the most High, which saw the vision of the Almighty, falling into a trance, but having his eyes open: 17I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of Moab, and destroy all the children of Sheth. 18And Edom shall be a possession, Seir also shall be a possession for his enemies; and Israel shall do valiantly. 19Out of Jacob shall come he that shall have dominion, and shall destroy him that remaineth of the city. 20And when he looked on Amalek, he took up his parable, and said, Amalek was the first of the nations; but his latter end shall be that he perish for ever. 21And he looked on the Kenites, and took up his parable, and said, Strong is thy dwellingplace, and thou puttest thy nest in a rock. 22Nevertheless the Kenite shall be wasted, until Asshur shall carry thee away captive. 23And he took up his parable, and said, Alas, who shall live when God doeth this! 24And ships shall come from the coast of Chittim, and shall afflict Asshur, and shall afflict Eber, and he also shall perish for ever.



How many would look here for endtime prophesy? Yet compare this to Daniel 11.

Daniel 11
21And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries. 22And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant. 23And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people. 24He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time. 25And he shall stir up his power and his courage against the king of the south with a great army; and the king of the south shall be stirred up to battle with a very great and mighty army; but he shall not stand: for they shall forecast devices against him. 26Yea, they that feed of the portion of his meat shall destroy him, and his army shall overflow: and many shall fall down slain. 27And both of these kings' hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time appointed. 28Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land. 29At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter. 30For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant. 31And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

2

http://www.answers.com/topic/eber

Also a good historical study site on Edom and Arabia would be ideal--- you can read material here.

http://nabataea.net/nabajoth.html












daysofnoah
I certainly think Dubai is a type of Mystery Babylon, a glimpse of what is coming. I also believe that the Vatican is directly involved - though to say that Mystery Babylon is the Vatican is myopic in my opinion. I also believe the idea of literal Babylon must be taken seriously, though many students of prophecy do not want to consider this possibility because that means the last days 'are still a ways off.' First of all, the latter is not necessarily true to begin with, and even if it is true the Scriptures seem to hint towards a literal last days Babylon. We must take this seriously. To begin with compare Isaiah 13-14, Jeremiah 50-51, Zechariah 5, and Revelation 17-18. Furthermore, the beast of Revelation 13 has elements of all four of the empires in Daniel 2 and 7 - that is of course Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome.

You also said,
QUOTE
i think it is 5 European and 5 Arab based on Daniel’s description of the 10 toes.


I think you are right on the money except I think to say they will be five Arab states may be an over-generalization. Not to be overly technical, but not every Middle-Easterner is an Arab. Anyway, I am convinced that Turkey, Syria and Iraq will be three of the Eastern Leg states. Of the Western Leg states, I think Italy is a slam dunk and Greece is also highly probable. Of course when we start looking at Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia etc., this brings up an important point. The map may change between now and then, so when I say Iraq, Syria, etc. I'm speaking more territorially than of nation states per-se. There may be a war that re-arranges the borders and frankly it might be coming in the next few months. I'd love to Babel on (pun intended) but I gotta get going. Shalom! Thanks for the post!
duncdrewnoah
QUOTE(daysofnoah @ Jan 25 2007, 03:17 PM) [snapback]99856[/snapback]

I certainly think Dubai is a type of Mystery Babylon, a glimpse of what is coming. I also believe that the Vatican is directly involved - though to say that Mystery Babylon is the Vatican is myopic in my opinion. I also believe the idea of literal Babylon must be taken seriously, though many students of prophecy do not want to consider this possibility because that means the last days 'are still a ways off.' First of all, the latter is not necessarily true to begin with, and even if it is true the Scriptures seem to hint towards a literal last days Babylon. We must take this seriously. To begin with compare Isaiah 13-14, Jeremiah 50-51, Zechariah 5, and Revelation 17-18. Furthermore, the beast of Revelation 13 has elements of all four of the empires in Daniel 2 and 7 - that is of course Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome.

You also said,
QUOTE
i think it is 5 European and 5 Arab based on Daniel’s description of the 10 toes.


I think you are right on the money except I think to say they will be five Arab states may be an over-generalization. Not to be overly technical, but not every Middle-Easterner is an Arab. Anyway, I am convinced that Turkey, Syria and Iraq will be three of the Eastern Leg states. Of the Western Leg states, I think Italy is a slam dunk and Greece is also highly probable. Of course when we start looking at Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia etc., this brings up an important point. The map may change between now and then, so when I say Iraq, Syria, etc. I'm speaking more territorially than of nation states per-se. There may be a war that re-arranges the borders and frankly it might be coming in the next few months. I'd love to Babel on (pun intended) but I gotta get going. Shalom! Thanks for the post!


actually, a literal babylon is not far off at all esp. if it is Dubai city...they are already finished with many of the building projects that are unmatched in the world. and soon they will be finished with the on going projects. most of the wonders of the world projects they are doing are open, will open in the next 18 months or are due to finishe before the end of 2009. Im talking about the gold tower, the silver tower, the tallest building in the world, a pyramid, the hanging gardens of babylon, the underwater city, the man made islands in the shape of the world atlas etc... all are finished or will be soon..
jhamner
excl.gif
daysofnoah
QUOTE
actually, a literal babylon is not far off at all esp. if it is Dubai city...they are already finished with many of the building projects that are unmatched in the world. and soon they will be finished with the on going projects. most of the wonders of the world projects they are doing are open, will open in the next 18 months or are due to finishe before the end of 2009. Im talking about the gold tower, the silver tower, the tallest building in the world, a pyramid, the hanging gardens of babylon, the underwater city, the man made islands in the shape of the world atlas etc... all are finished or will be soon..


By literal Babylon I don't mean a literal city like Babylon, I mean geographically literal Babylon - as in 60 miles south of Baghdad on the banks of the Euphrates. And I'm saying that Dubai shows us that this city can pop up in, say, 3 1/2 years. Satan will pull out all of the stops. Incredible technology, super-efficient leadership and execution, supernatural insights, miracles, Nephilim, you name it. Enough to deceive the very elect if that were possible.
yaqub
Yes, Dubai is definitely a city to watch. I think you mean "import", not "export" everything. Total investment on Dubai exceeds $100 billion.

Another city to watch is Rabegh, less than 100 km north of Mecca, and is in the Mecca province (Makkah province). This city is known as King Abdullah Economic city. The investment on it is currently about $50 billion, and growing. The first thing they are building is the sea-port, and it is meant to rival Dubai.

Right now Dubai is certainly ahead (it started earlier), but Rabegh will not be too far behind. The thing about Babylon is that the blood of the saints can be found in it, and Saudi Arabian cities fit better than Dubai.

Anyway, both cities are on the Arabian peninsula. We'll have to wait and see.
fighterofgod
Could New York city be modern Babylon.. Rev 18 kind of makes me think of 9-11.. In one hour the world mourned.. And ships can be seen.. And it is the number one trade city in the world.. maybe there is more to rev 18 that will come to past over time.. Only God really knows but one thing is for sure his Coming is very very soon.. And I can only pray that us the church would be ready for that day..
sojourner
Dear daysofnoah,

You just can't let go of the Vatican, can you? LOL, that's okay, I love you anyhow. I beg you though, to keep your heart open. For your own sake as well as any other Christian you may influence.

Peace,
sojourner

1dsz5e4.gif
duncdrewnoah
QUOTE(sojourner @ Jan 26 2007, 07:45 AM) [snapback]99910[/snapback]

Dear daysofnoah,

You just can't let go of the Vatican, can you? LOL, that's okay, I love you anyhow. I beg you though, to keep your heart open. For your own sake as well as any other Christian you may influence.

Peace,
sojourner

1dsz5e4.gif


DAYSOFNOAH,
i agree that a city can pop up very quickly during trib...look at the last 7 yrs, how much the world has changed...7 yrs ago, 9-11 had not happened...a totally different world...since then, israel went to war with hizbullah, we went to war in afghan, and iraq, have attacked somalia, nk has tested nukes and iran is about to have nukes...just think of the changes in another 7 (not to mention the domino effect if there is a pre trib rapture)


fighterforGod,

I know a lot of people hold to NY as babylon...i have never thought so for a few reasons...Revelation says Babylon trades in several items and it list specific items ie ivory vessels etc..i take this list literally...ny does not trade all of the things on the list, not even the entire US does if you include all 50 states..it list slaves too. Dubai got in trouble last yr for slave trade...it mentions the blood of prophets (sounds like a muslim country to me) or the vatican but the vatican does not import/export all things on the list and dubai does...the only city in the world that literally fits rev 18 right now is Dubai city..now in the future, it could be some place else, but for now, it needs to be watched.
daysofnoah
QUOTE(sojourner @ Jan 26 2007, 07:45 AM) [snapback]99910[/snapback]

Dear daysofnoah,

You just can't let go of the Vatican, can you? LOL, that's okay, I love you anyhow. I beg you though, to keep your heart open. For your own sake as well as any other Christian you may influence.

Peace,
sojourner

1dsz5e4.gif


I didn't even bring it up, just responding to the original post. smile.gif Besides, my opinion is hardly based upon casual examination. Trust me, it would be nice if I didn't have to deal with the issue [of Catholicism]. Furthermore, I am the first to say that main-line denominational Evangelical Protestantism is hardly any better. I'm an equal opportunity offender! smile.gif

Anyway, is NYC Mystery Babylon? Not so much...
1LikeDeborah
QUOTE(yaqub @ Jan 25 2007, 08:24 PM) [snapback]99874[/snapback]

The thing about Babylon is that the blood of the saints can be found in it, and Saudi Arabian cities fit better than Dubai.

Anyway, both cities are on the Arabian peninsula. We'll have to wait and see.


Revelation 18
By your magic spell all the nations were led astray.
24In her was found the blood of prophets and of the saints,
and of ALL who have been killed on the earth."

What did Jesus say to the pharisees? C'mon folks!

Matthew 23
29Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, 30And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. 31Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. 32Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35That upon you may come ALL the righteous blood shed upon the earth , from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Is the blood of ALL the righteouss killed found in New York? Or Dubai? Vatican city? I don't think so.



WhiteKnight
http://www.gotquestions.org/whore-Babylon-mystery.html

The link will tell you.
sojourner
Whiteknight, Vatican City is not in Rome and Jerusalem was a city of 7 hills. If I wanted to know about you, where should I go to get that information? Should I ask Kansasdad or Miki about you? Of course not, I should ask you. So why do you rely on outside sources for information about the church?

sojourner
duncdrewnoah
QUOTE(1LikeDeborah @ Jan 26 2007, 01:47 PM) [snapback]99938[/snapback]

QUOTE(yaqub @ Jan 25 2007, 08:24 PM) [snapback]99874[/snapback]

The thing about Babylon is that the blood of the saints can be found in it, and Saudi Arabian cities fit better than Dubai.

Anyway, both cities are on the Arabian peninsula. We'll have to wait and see.


Revelation 18
By your magic spell all the nations were led astray.
24In her was found the blood of prophets and of the saints,
and of ALL who have been killed on the earth."

What did Jesus say to the pharisees? C'mon folks!

Matthew 23
29Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, 30And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. 31Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. 32Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35That upon you may come ALL the righteous blood shed upon the earth , from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Is the blood of ALL the righteouss killed found in New York? Or Dubai? Vatican city? I don't think so.


two things:

one, if the city is Jerusalem, how does it get destroyed but yet suffer and earthquake at the second coming that knocks down the walls of the city....we know the mystery Babylon is not jerusalem because jerusalem is still intact (as other evidence in the bible suggest) at the second coming.

two- "blood of prophets" remeber that in the trib, many christians will be killed. If islam is rampant during the trib, dubai will be a major city in the world during early trib...the muslims have killed and will kill Christians ...if dubai city is seen as the leading city of trade for muslims (at it is now) it could very well be mystery babylon....

i believe the list in Rev 18 is literal...Jerusalem does not trade in those things listed...God loves jerusalem, he does not hate it...europe and the muslims want it, they dont want it destroyed..
1LikeDeborah
QUOTE(duncdrewnoah @ Jan 29 2007, 09:37 AM) [snapback]100168[/snapback]

QUOTE(1LikeDeborah @ Jan 26 2007, 01:47 PM) [snapback]99938[/snapback]

QUOTE(yaqub @ Jan 25 2007, 08:24 PM) [snapback]99874[/snapback]

The thing about Babylon is that the blood of the saints can be found in it, and Saudi Arabian cities fit better than Dubai.

Anyway, both cities are on the Arabian peninsula. We'll have to wait and see.


Revelation 18
By your magic spell all the nations were led astray.
24In her was found the blood of prophets and of the saints,
and of ALL who have been killed on the earth."

What did Jesus say to the pharisees? C'mon folks!

Matthew 23
29Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, 30And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. 31Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. 32Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35That upon you may come ALL the righteous blood shed upon the earth , from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Is the blood of ALL the righteouss killed found in New York? Or Dubai? Vatican city? I don't think so.


two things:

one, if the city is Jerusalem, how does it get destroyed but yet suffer and earthquake at the second coming that knocks down the walls of the city....we know the mystery Babylon is not jerusalem because jerusalem is still intact (as other evidence in the bible suggest) at the second coming.

two- "blood of prophets" remeber that in the trib, many christians will be killed. If islam is rampant during the trib, dubai will be a major city in the world during early trib...the muslims have killed and will kill Christians ...if dubai city is seen as the leading city of trade for muslims (at it is now) it could very well be mystery babylon....

i believe the list in Rev 18 is literal...Jerusalem does not trade in those things listed...God loves jerusalem, he does not hate it...europe and the muslims want it, they dont want it destroyed..


It spelt out in his word--- and of course He loves Jerusalem! But are you going to ignore what Christ said concerning Jerusalem?

Are you going to continue to rely on opinions?

Or are you going to bury your face in God's word without prejudice? Meaning include those passages many love to ignore.








Kansasdad
QUOTE(sojourner @ Jan 27 2007, 05:12 AM) [snapback]99997[/snapback]

Whiteknight, Vatican City is not in Rome and Jerusalem was a city of 7 hills. If I wanted to know about you, where should I go to get that information? Should I ask Kansasdad or Miki about you? Of course not, I should ask you. So why do you rely on outside sources for information about the church?

sojourner



Anyone who takes a real look at this will have to come to the conclusion that it is not the Vatican. There are too many things that do not fit. To hold on to this theory is nothing more than clinging to a hatred one has become confortable with. Dig deeper , the truth will set you free.

God Bless,
Kansas Dad


psssst ask Miki maybe she knows him. unsure.gif


duncdrewnoah
QUOTE(Kansasdad @ Jan 29 2007, 04:44 PM) [snapback]100209[/snapback]

QUOTE(sojourner @ Jan 27 2007, 05:12 AM) [snapback]99997[/snapback]

Whiteknight, Vatican City is not in Rome and Jerusalem was a city of 7 hills. If I wanted to know about you, where should I go to get that information? Should I ask Kansasdad or Miki about you? Of course not, I should ask you. So why do you rely on outside sources for information about the church?

sojourner



Anyone who takes a real look at this will have to come to the conclusion that it is not the Vatican. There are too many things that do not fit. To hold on to this theory is nothing more than clinging to a hatred one has become confortable with. Dig deeper , the truth will set you free.

God Bless,
Kansas Dad


psssst ask Miki maybe she knows him. unsure.gif

duncdrewnoah
QUOTE(Kansasdad @ Jan 29 2007, 04:44 PM) [snapback]100209[/snapback]

QUOTE(sojourner @ Jan 27 2007, 05:12 AM) [snapback]99997[/snapback]

Whiteknight, Vatican City is not in Rome and Jerusalem was a city of 7 hills. If I wanted to know about you, where should I go to get that information? Should I ask Kansasdad or Miki about you? Of course not, I should ask you. So why do you rely on outside sources for information about the church?

sojourner



Anyone who takes a real look at this will have to come to the conclusion that it is not the Vatican. There are too many things that do not fit. To hold on to this theory is nothing more than clinging to a hatred one has become confortable with. Dig deeper , the truth will set you free.

God Bless,
Kansas Dad


psssst ask Miki maybe she knows him. unsure.gif


1likedeb,
I am not ignoring God's word....infact, I am forming my conclusions based soley on scripture; i believe rev 18 to be literal. Right now, Dubai is the ONLY city that meets every requirement on the list...Jerusalem does not...and if we look at scripture, Jerusalem is intact when Jesus comes back and then has a major quake...it cant be destroyed (like babylon will be) and then destroyed again....you accuse me of ingnoring scripture based on opinion. I say, i base my opinion on scripture and scripture only. My opinion was that the vatican was mystery babylon until I studied the scripture on it...am I correct in assuming that you think Jerusalem is the mystery babylon?
1LikeDeborah
QUOTE(duncdrewnoah @ Jan 30 2007, 08:07 AM) [snapback]100292[/snapback]

QUOTE(Kansasdad @ Jan 29 2007, 04:44 PM) [snapback]100209[/snapback]

QUOTE(sojourner @ Jan 27 2007, 05:12 AM) [snapback]99997[/snapback]

Whiteknight, Vatican City is not in Rome and Jerusalem was a city of 7 hills. If I wanted to know about you, where should I go to get that information? Should I ask Kansasdad or Miki about you? Of course not, I should ask you. So why do you rely on outside sources for information about the church?

sojourner



Anyone who takes a real look at this will have to come to the conclusion that it is not the Vatican. There are too many things that do not fit. To hold on to this theory is nothing more than clinging to a hatred one has become confortable with. Dig deeper , the truth will set you free.

God Bless,
Kansas Dad


psssst ask Miki maybe she knows him. unsure.gif


1likedeb,
I am not ignoring God's word....infact, I am forming my conclusions based soley on scripture; i believe rev 18 to be literal. Right now, Dubai is the ONLY city that meets every requirement on the list...Jerusalem does not...and if we look at scripture, Jerusalem is intact when Jesus comes back and then has a major quake...it cant be destroyed (like babylon will be) and then destroyed again....you accuse me of ingnoring scripture based on opinion. I say, i base my opinion on scripture and scripture only. My opinion was that the vatican was mystery babylon until I studied the scripture on it...am I correct in assuming that you think Jerusalem is the mystery babylon?


No sir what you have done is based your idea on one passage in Revelation. There are loads more scriptures in the Old Testament--- what I am saying is that you have to look at some of these passages. Many of these passages work into prophecies of Revelation. There is far more biblical passages that support Jerusalem over Dubai. I might be wrong but I'm the kind of person that likes to search look all(LOL I'm very detail oriented).

Consider Revelation 17

One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters. With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries." Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. This title was written on her forehead: MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. Revelation 13:1-6

First of all I believe that all things in scripture will be found elsewhere too. The same would apply to the woman of wickedness who rides the beast.

We are in fact told about this same woman in the old Testament.

Zecheriah 5
4I will bring it forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief, and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name: and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof. 5Then the angel that talked with me went forth, and said unto me, Lift up now thine eyes, and see what is this that goeth forth.6And I said, What is it? And he said, This is an ephah that goeth forth. He said moreover, This is their resemblance through all the earth. 7And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this is a woman that sitteth in the midst of the ephah. 8And he said, This is wickedness. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth thereof. 9Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven.

Consider how the harlot is dressed. Why is she almost dressed in the colors of Israel?

Revelation 17
The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. This title was written on her forehead: MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. Revelation 17:1-6

Notice the the colors of the tabernacle.

Exodus 26
1Moreover thou shalt make the tabernacle with ten curtains of fine twined linen, and blue, and purple, and scarlet: with cherubims of cunning work shalt thou make them.2The length of one curtain shall be eight and twenty cubits, and the breadth of one curtain four cubits: and every one of the curtains shall have one measure.

Exodus 26
30And thou shalt rear up the tabernacle according to the fashion thereof which was shewed thee in the mount. 31And thou shalt make a vail of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen of cunning work: with cherubims shall it be made: 32And thou shalt hang it upon four pillars of shittim wood overlaid with gold: their hooks shall be of gold, upon the four sockets of silver.

The colors of the courtyard

Exodus 27
16And for the gate of the court shall be an hanging of twenty cubits, of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen, wrought with needlework: and their pillars shall be four, and their sockets four.17All the pillars round about the court shall be filleted with silver; their hooks shall be of silver, and their sockets of brass.

The colors of the priests Ephod

Exodus 28

5And they shall take gold, and blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen. 6And they shall make the ephod of gold, of blue, and of purple, of scarlet, and fine twined linen, with cunning work. 7It shall have the two shoulderpieces thereof joined at the two edges thereof; and so it shall be joined together. 8And the curious girdle of the ephod, which is upon it, shall be of the same, according to the work thereof; even of gold, of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen. 9And thou shalt take two onyx stones, and grave on them the names of the children of Israel

Exodus 39
And of the blue, and purple, and scarlet, they made cloths of service, to do service in the holy place, and made the holy garments for Aaron; as the LORD commanded Moses. 2And he made the ephod of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen.

The colors of Israel are Purple Scarlet and Blue. Notice how Mystery Babylon is missing the color blue?
Why blue?

Numbers 4
10And they shall put it and all the vessels thereof within a covering of badgers' skins, and shall put it upon a bar. 11And upon the golden altar they shall spread a cloth of blue, and cover it with a covering of badgers' skins, and shall put to the staves thereof:And upon the golden altar they shall spread a cloth of blue, and cover it with a covering of badgers' skins, and shall put to the staves thereof: 2And they shall take all the instruments of ministry, wherewith they minister in the sanctuary, and put them in a cloth of blue, and cover them with a covering of badgers' skins, and shall put them on a bar:

37And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 38Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a ribband of blue: 39And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them ; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring:

The blue was symbolic of obediance to the Lord--- a symbol of purity and ministering unto the Lord. We are told. Proverbs 20: 30The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do stripes the inward parts of the belly.


This is why Mystery Babylon is missing blue-- she is without purity--a harlot.

Hosea 5:1-4
Hear ye this, O priests; and hearken, ye house of Israel; and give ye ear, O house of the king; for judgment is toward you, because ye have been a snare on Mizpah, and a net spread upon Tabor. And the revolters are profound to make slaughter, though I have been a rebuker of them all. I know Ephraim, and Israel is not hid from me: for now, O Ephraim, thou committest whoredom, and Israel is defiled.

Hosea 13:1-3
When Ephraim spake trembling, he exalted himself in Israel; but when he offended in Baal, he died. And now they sin more and more, and have made them molten images of their silver, and idols according to their own understanding, all of it the work of the craftsmen: they say of them, Let the men that sacrifice kiss the calves. Therefore they shall be as the morning cloud and as the early dew that passeth away, as the chaff that is driven with the whirlwind out of the floor, and as the smoke out of the chimney.

And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate naked,and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Hosea 13:4-9
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me. I did know thee in the wilderness, in the land of great drought. According to their pasture, so were they filled; they were filled, and their heart was exalted; therefore have they forgotten me. Therefore I will be unto them as a LION : as a LEOPARD by the way will I observe them: I will meet them as a BEAR that is bereaved of her whelps, and will rend the caul of their heart, and there will I devour them like a lion: the wild BEAST shall tear them.

Revelation 13
1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2And the beast which I saw was like unto a LEOPARD , and his feet were as the feet of a BEAR , and his mouth as the mouth of a LION : and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

These are just some scriptures. Its late I have to sleep.









Miki
You were sarcastic when you brought up my name but you're right. I don't know and when l read all this l felt discouraged...How can l ever understand it? Or do l need to? Stephen would say yes...Systematic study. Why is that so overwhelmingly difficult for me. We're reading Acts in my small group and it lists the towns where Paul and the others went and we can't even pronounce them let alone remember them.

Doesn't Shekel say Mystery Babylon is spread out around the world. Religious (Rome) Economic (NY) Plus literal Babylon. Lots of types that give hints. In the end the loose ends of the mystery come together to form what we can't see now. That's why it's still a mystery. The same with the Mystery Church that Stephen pointed out. There will come a time when the wheat is divided from the tare and we will see what was hidden among the weeds. It will no longer be a mystery. In case some of you are wondering. Signs and wonder don't prove a thing in the last day...Every body's going to be doing it. Then how will we know? I've got a good guess...Do you?

I'm not mad by the way or offended.. blush.gif
l see what you've said as an opportunity to add my 1/2 shekel.

For those of you who are teachers and find it easy to grasp the many details l give you thanks. Even if it's hard sometimes l read and press in to understand. Progress is slow.

Under Types Patterns and imageries l posted Donkey Stories. Towards the end l talk about Jacob...This has been, in one paragraph, a 6 or 7 year learning revelation for me. All this time and l'm just now getting it. Just understanding Jacob and the why of him and the events that led up to Israel becoming the Jacob she is today...and the events leading up to Jacob become Israel...

I wonder if others already understand why Jacob felt unworthy and why he needed his own revelation and his own blessing? God made it come alive for me over these last few years and especially these last few months. He did it with types and patterns mostly...I guess l'm slow but at least l'm getting it. And l get it in a personal way as there is nothing new under the sun at what one goes through others go through as well...The road to redemption is a rough one for the stubborn types...Is that all of us? I don't know but l do know that defiance is the poisonous bite of the serpent and the mystery of both God and Hell are soon to be realized...

Keep the stories coming. We're reading and trying to learn in Jesus name! wub.gif
sojourner
QUOTE(1LikeDeborah @ Jan 31 2007, 01:52 AM) [snapback]100398[/snapback]

QUOTE(duncdrewnoah @ Jan 30 2007, 08:07 AM) [snapback]100292[/snapback]

QUOTE(Kansasdad @ Jan 29 2007, 04:44 PM) [snapback]100209[/snapback]

QUOTE(sojourner @ Jan 27 2007, 05:12 AM) [snapback]99997[/snapback]

Whiteknight, Vatican City is not in Rome and Jerusalem was a city of 7 hills. If I wanted to know about you, where should I go to get that information? Should I ask Kansasdad or Miki about you? Of course not, I should ask you. So why do you rely on outside sources for information about the church?

sojourner



Anyone who takes a real look at this will have to come to the conclusion that it is not the Vatican. There are too many things that do not fit. To hold on to this theory is nothing more than clinging to a hatred one has become confortable with. Dig deeper , the truth will set you free.

God Bless,
Kansas Dad


psssst ask Miki maybe she knows him. unsure.gif


1likedeb,
I am not ignoring God's word....infact, I am forming my conclusions based soley on scripture; i believe rev 18 to be literal. Right now, Dubai is the ONLY city that meets every requirement on the list...Jerusalem does not...and if we look at scripture, Jerusalem is intact when Jesus comes back and then has a major quake...it cant be destroyed (like babylon will be) and then destroyed again....you accuse me of ingnoring scripture based on opinion. I say, i base my opinion on scripture and scripture only. My opinion was that the vatican was mystery babylon until I studied the scripture on it...am I correct in assuming that you think Jerusalem is the mystery babylon?


No sir what you have done is based your idea on one passage in Revelation. There are loads more scriptures in the Old Testament--- what I am saying is that you have to look at some of these passages. Many of these passages work into prophecies of Revelation. There is far more biblical passages that support Jerusalem over Dubai. I might be wrong but I'm the kind of person that likes to search look all(LOL I'm very detail oriented).

Consider Revelation 17

One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters. With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries." Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. This title was written on her forehead: MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. Revelation 13:1-6

First of all I believe that all things in scripture will be found elsewhere too. The same would apply to the woman of wickedness who rides the beast.

We are in fact told about this same woman in the old Testament.

Zecheriah 5
4I will bring it forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief, and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name: and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof. 5Then the angel that talked with me went forth, and said unto me, Lift up now thine eyes, and see what is this that goeth forth.6And I said, What is it? And he said, This is an ephah that goeth forth. He said moreover, This is their resemblance through all the earth. 7And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this is a woman that sitteth in the midst of the ephah. 8And he said, This is wickedness. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth thereof. 9Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven.

Consider how the harlot is dressed. Why is she almost dressed in the colors of Israel?

Revelation 17
The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. This title was written on her forehead: MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. Revelation 17:1-6

Notice the the colors of the tabernacle.

Exodus 26
1Moreover thou shalt make the tabernacle with ten curtains of fine twined linen, and blue, and purple, and scarlet: with cherubims of cunning work shalt thou make them.2The length of one curtain shall be eight and twenty cubits, and the breadth of one curtain four cubits: and every one of the curtains shall have one measure.

Exodus 26
30And thou shalt rear up the tabernacle according to the fashion thereof which was shewed thee in the mount. 31And thou shalt make a vail of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen of cunning work: with cherubims shall it be made: 32And thou shalt hang it upon four pillars of shittim wood overlaid with gold: their hooks shall be of gold, upon the four sockets of silver.

The colors of the courtyard

Exodus 27
16And for the gate of the court shall be an hanging of twenty cubits, of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen, wrought with needlework: and their pillars shall be four, and their sockets four.17All the pillars round about the court shall be filleted with silver; their hooks shall be of silver, and their sockets of brass.

The colors of the priests Ephod

Exodus 28

5And they shall take gold, and blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen. 6And they shall make the ephod of gold, of blue, and of purple, of scarlet, and fine twined linen, with cunning work. 7It shall have the two shoulderpieces thereof joined at the two edges thereof; and so it shall be joined together. 8And the curious girdle of the ephod, which is upon it, shall be of the same, according to the work thereof; even of gold, of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen. 9And thou shalt take two onyx stones, and grave on them the names of the children of Israel

Exodus 39
And of the blue, and purple, and scarlet, they made cloths of service, to do service in the holy place, and made the holy garments for Aaron; as the LORD commanded Moses. 2And he made the ephod of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen.

The colors of Israel are Purple Scarlet and Blue. Notice how Mystery Babylon is missing the color blue?
Why blue?

Numbers 4
10And they shall put it and all the vessels thereof within a covering of badgers' skins, and shall put it upon a bar. 11And upon the golden altar they shall spread a cloth of blue, and cover it with a covering of badgers' skins, and shall put to the staves thereof:And upon the golden altar they shall spread a cloth of blue, and cover it with a covering of badgers' skins, and shall put to the staves thereof: 2And they shall take all the instruments of ministry, wherewith they minister in the sanctuary, and put them in a cloth of blue, and cover them with a covering of badgers' skins, and shall put them on a bar:

37And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 38Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a ribband of blue: 39And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them ; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring:

The blue was symbolic of obediance to the Lord--- a symbol of purity and ministering unto the Lord. We are told. Proverbs 20: 30The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do stripes the inward parts of the belly.


This is why Mystery Babylon is missing blue-- she is without purity--a harlot.

Hosea 5:1-4
Hear ye this, O priests; and hearken, ye house of Israel; and give ye ear, O house of the king; for judgment is toward you, because ye have been a snare on Mizpah, and a net spread upon Tabor. And the revolters are profound to make slaughter, though I have been a rebuker of them all. I know Ephraim, and Israel is not hid from me: for now, O Ephraim, thou committest whoredom, and Israel is defiled.

Hosea 13:1-3
When Ephraim spake trembling, he exalted himself in Israel; but when he offended in Baal, he died. And now they sin more and more, and have made them molten images of their silver, and idols according to their own understanding, all of it the work of the craftsmen: they say of them, Let the men that sacrifice kiss the calves. Therefore they shall be as the morning cloud and as the early dew that passeth away, as the chaff that is driven with the whirlwind out of the floor, and as the smoke out of the chimney.

And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate naked,and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Hosea 13:4-9
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me. I did know thee in the wilderness, in the land of great drought. According to their pasture, so were they filled; they were filled, and their heart was exalted; therefore have they forgotten me. Therefore I will be unto them as a LION : as a LEOPARD by the way will I observe them: I will meet them as a BEAR that is bereaved of her whelps, and will rend the caul of their heart, and there will I devour them like a lion: the wild BEAST shall tear them.

Revelation 13
1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2And the beast which I saw was like unto a LEOPARD , and his feet were as the feet of a BEAR , and his mouth as the mouth of a LION : and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

These are just some scriptures. Its late I have to sleep.






Dear ILikeDeborah, I do believe that the Lord is revealing things to you at an eccelerated rate. You amaze me.

I think that this particular problem began when the reformers began studying prophecy about 500 years ago. Each generation believing that their generation would see the return of Christ. The Bible being a work that speaks to every era, it's easy to see how someone could make these mistakes. The RCC with its Vatican and the fine robes are practicing ancient traditions that began with Judaism. Why? Because the original Christians were Jews. Anyway, it is easy to see how someone in the 15th or 16th century could make this mistake. Particularly since Israel did not exist as a nation with no hint that it would any time soon. I do believe that people who are sold on interpretations made by people 500 years ago need to seriously reconsider.

Peace,
sojourner

Dear Miki, I did not mean to offend you. I understand that you don't much care for me, but I like you alot. I find that you have a remarkable way of putting things into words. Your form of speaking is like a diamond in the rough.

sojourner
duncdrewnoah
QUOTE(sojourner @ Jan 31 2007, 09:09 AM) [snapback]100412[/snapback]

QUOTE(1LikeDeborah @ Jan 31 2007, 01:52 AM) [snapback]100398[/snapback]

QUOTE(duncdrewnoah @ Jan 30 2007, 08:07 AM) [snapback]100292[/snapback]

QUOTE(Kansasdad @ Jan 29 2007, 04:44 PM) [snapback]100209[/snapback]

QUOTE(sojourner @ Jan 27 2007, 05:12 AM) [snapback]99997[/snapback]

Whiteknight, Vatican City is not in Rome and Jerusalem was a city of 7 hills. If I wanted to know about you, where should I go to get that information? Should I ask Kansasdad or Miki about you? Of course not, I should ask you. So why do you rely on outside sources for information about the church?

sojourner



Anyone who takes a real look at this will have to come to the conclusion that it is not the Vatican. There are too many things that do not fit. To hold on to this theory is nothing more than clinging to a hatred one has become confortable with. Dig deeper , the truth will set you free.

God Bless,
Kansas Dad


psssst ask Miki maybe she knows him. unsure.gif


1likedeb,
I am not ignoring God's word....infact, I am forming my conclusions based soley on scripture; i believe rev 18 to be literal. Right now, Dubai is the ONLY city that meets every requirement on the list...Jerusalem does not...and if we look at scripture, Jerusalem is intact when Jesus comes back and then has a major quake...it cant be destroyed (like babylon will be) and then destroyed again....you accuse me of ingnoring scripture based on opinion. I say, i base my opinion on scripture and scripture only. My opinion was that the vatican was mystery babylon until I studied the scripture on it...am I correct in assuming that you think Jerusalem is the mystery babylon?


No sir what you have done is based your idea on one passage in Revelation. There are loads more scriptures in the Old Testament--- what I am saying is that you have to look at some of these passages. Many of these passages work into prophecies of Revelation. There is far more biblical passages that support Jerusalem over Dubai. I might be wrong but I'm the kind of person that likes to search look all(LOL I'm very detail oriented).

Consider Revelation 17

One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters. With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries." Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. This title was written on her forehead: MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. Revelation 13:1-6

First of all I believe that all things in scripture will be found elsewhere too. The same would apply to the woman of wickedness who rides the beast.

We are in fact told about this same woman in the old Testament.

Zecheriah 5
4I will bring it forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief, and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name: and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof. 5Then the angel that talked with me went forth, and said unto me, Lift up now thine eyes, and see what is this that goeth forth.6And I said, What is it? And he said, This is an ephah that goeth forth. He said moreover, This is their resemblance through all the earth. 7And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this is a woman that sitteth in the midst of the ephah. 8And he said, This is wickedness. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth thereof. 9Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven.

Consider how the harlot is dressed. Why is she almost dressed in the colors of Israel?

Revelation 17
The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. This title was written on her forehead: MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. Revelation 17:1-6

Notice the the colors of the tabernacle.

Exodus 26
1Moreover thou shalt make the tabernacle with ten curtains of fine twined linen, and blue, and purple, and scarlet: with cherubims of cunning work shalt thou make them.2The length of one curtain shall be eight and twenty cubits, and the breadth of one curtain four cubits: and every one of the curtains shall have one measure.

Exodus 26
30And thou shalt rear up the tabernacle according to the fashion thereof which was shewed thee in the mount. 31And thou shalt make a vail of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen of cunning work: with cherubims shall it be made: 32And thou shalt hang it upon four pillars of shittim wood overlaid with gold: their hooks shall be of gold, upon the four sockets of silver.

The colors of the courtyard

Exodus 27
16And for the gate of the court shall be an hanging of twenty cubits, of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen, wrought with needlework: and their pillars shall be four, and their sockets four.17All the pillars round about the court shall be filleted with silver; their hooks shall be of silver, and their sockets of brass.

The colors of the priests Ephod

Exodus 28

5And they shall take gold, and blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen. 6And they shall make the ephod of gold, of blue, and of purple, of scarlet, and fine twined linen, with cunning work. 7It shall have the two shoulderpieces thereof joined at the two edges thereof; and so it shall be joined together. 8And the curious girdle of the ephod, which is upon it, shall be of the same, according to the work thereof; even of gold, of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen. 9And thou shalt take two onyx stones, and grave on them the names of the children of Israel

Exodus 39
And of the blue, and purple, and scarlet, they made cloths of service, to do service in the holy place, and made the holy garments for Aaron; as the LORD commanded Moses. 2And he made the ephod of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen.

The colors of Israel are Purple Scarlet and Blue. Notice how Mystery Babylon is missing the color blue?
Why blue?

Numbers 4
10And they shall put it and all the vessels thereof within a covering of badgers' skins, and shall put it upon a bar. 11And upon the golden altar they shall spread a cloth of blue, and cover it with a covering of badgers' skins, and shall put to the staves thereof:And upon the golden altar they shall spread a cloth of blue, and cover it with a covering of badgers' skins, and shall put to the staves thereof: 2And they shall take all the instruments of ministry, wherewith they minister in the sanctuary, and put them in a cloth of blue, and cover them with a covering of badgers' skins, and shall put them on a bar:

37And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 38Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a ribband of blue: 39And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them ; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring:

The blue was symbolic of obediance to the Lord--- a symbol of purity and ministering unto the Lord. We are told. Proverbs 20: 30The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do stripes the inward parts of the belly.


This is why Mystery Babylon is missing blue-- she is without purity--a harlot.

Hosea 5:1-4
Hear ye this, O priests; and hearken, ye house of Israel; and give ye ear, O house of the king; for judgment is toward you, because ye have been a snare on Mizpah, and a net spread upon Tabor. And the revolters are profound to make slaughter, though I have been a rebuker of them all. I know Ephraim, and Israel is not hid from me: for now, O Ephraim, thou committest whoredom, and Israel is defiled.

Hosea 13:1-3
When Ephraim spake trembling, he exalted himself in Israel; but when he offended in Baal, he died. And now they sin more and more, and have made them molten images of their silver, and idols according to their own understanding, all of it the work of the craftsmen: they say of them, Let the men that sacrifice kiss the calves. Therefore they shall be as the morning cloud and as the early dew that passeth away, as the chaff that is driven with the whirlwind out of the floor, and as the smoke out of the chimney.

And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate naked,and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Hosea 13:4-9
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me. I did know thee in the wilderness, in the land of great drought. According to their pasture, so were they filled; they were filled, and their heart was exalted; therefore have they forgotten me. Therefore I will be unto them as a LION : as a LEOPARD by the way will I observe them: I will meet them as a BEAR that is bereaved of her whelps, and will rend the caul of their heart, and there will I devour them like a lion: the wild BEAST shall tear them.

Revelation 13
1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2And the beast which I saw was like unto a LEOPARD , and his feet were as the feet of a BEAR , and his mouth as the mouth of a LION : and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

These are just some scriptures. Its late I have to sleep.






Dear ILikeDeborah, I do believe that the Lord is revealing things to you at an eccelerated rate. You amaze me.

I think that this particular problem began when the reformers began studying prophecy about 500 years ago. Each generation believing that their generation would see the return of Christ. The Bible being a work that speaks to every era, it's easy to see how someone could make these mistakes. The RCC with its Vatican and the fine robes are practicing ancient traditions that began with Judaism. Why? Because the original Christians were Jews. Anyway, it is easy to see how someone in the 15th or 16th century could make this mistake. Particularly since Israel did not exist as a nation with no hint that it would any time soon. I do believe that people who are sold on interpretations made by people 500 years ago need to seriously reconsider.

Peace,
sojourner

Dear Miki, I did not mean to offend you. I understand that you don't much care for me, but I like you alot. I find that you have a remarkable way of putting things into words. Your form of speaking is like a diamond in the rough.

sojourner


1likedeb,

if Jerusalem is mystery bab....we have plenty of time before trib starts....jerusalem does not currently trade slaves, vehicles, ivory vessels etc...almost nothing on the list.....the world doesnt trade with israel, a lot of countries even have embargos against them...if Jerusalem is the city, we can all take a deep breath cause they are many yrs away from being able to fufill this prophecy literally. And Jerusalem may be the city but again i dont think so...you do...no big deal..at least one of us is wrong, maybe both of us. my point is, if we are very close to the end times, Dubai city is the only current city that currently fufills the prophecy literaly.
Miki
QUOTE
Dear Miki, I did not mean to offend you. I understand that you don't much care for me,


WHAT!! My dear sweet brother or sister. You are never on my mind. I don't even know you to care or not care???? Be at peace.

sojourner
Hey Miki, that's what I mean. biggrin.gif
1LikeDeborah
QUOTE(duncdrewnoah @ Jan 31 2007, 09:45 AM) [snapback]100418[/snapback]

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Whiteknight, Vatican City is not in Rome and Jerusalem was a city of 7 hills. If I wanted to know about you, where should I go to get that information? Should I ask Kansasdad or Miki about you? Of course not, I should ask you. So why do you rely on outside sources for information about the church?

sojourner



Anyone who takes a real look at this will have to come to the conclusion that it is not the Vatican. There are too many things that do not fit. To hold on to this theory is nothing more than clinging to a hatred one has become confortable with. Dig deeper , the truth will set you free.

God Bless,
Kansas Dad


psssst ask Miki maybe she knows him. unsure.gif


1likedeb,
I am not ignoring God's word....infact, I am forming my conclusions based soley on scripture; i believe rev 18 to be literal. Right now, Dubai is the ONLY city that meets every requirement on the list...Jerusalem does not...and if we look at scripture, Jerusalem is intact when Jesus comes back and then has a major quake...it cant be destroyed (like babylon will be) and then destroyed again....you accuse me of ingnoring scripture based on opinion. I say, i base my opinion on scripture and scripture only. My opinion was that the vatican was mystery babylon until I studied the scripture on it...am I correct in assuming that you think Jerusalem is the mystery babylon?


No sir what you have done is based your idea on one passage in Revelation. There are loads more scriptures in the Old Testament--- what I am saying is that you have to look at some of these passages. Many of these passages work into prophecies of Revelation. There is far more biblical passages that support Jerusalem over Dubai. I might be wrong but I'm the kind of person that likes to search look all(LOL I'm very detail oriented).

Consider Revelation 17

One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters. With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries." Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. This title was written on her forehead: MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. Revelation 13:1-6

First of all I believe that all things in scripture will be found elsewhere too. The same would apply to the woman of wickedness who rides the beast.

We are in fact told about this same woman in the old Testament.

Zecheriah 5
4I will bring it forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief, and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name: and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof. 5Then the angel that talked with me went forth, and said unto me, Lift up now thine eyes, and see what is this that goeth forth.6And I said, What is it? And he said, This is an ephah that goeth forth. He said moreover, This is their resemblance through all the earth. 7And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this is a woman that sitteth in the midst of the ephah. 8And he said, This is wickedness. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth thereof. 9Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven.

Consider how the harlot is dressed. Why is she almost dressed in the colors of Israel?

Revelation 17
The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. This title was written on her forehead: MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. Revelation 17:1-6

Notice the the colors of the tabernacle.

Exodus 26
1Moreover thou shalt make the tabernacle with ten curtains of fine twined linen, and blue, and purple, and scarlet: with cherubims of cunning work shalt thou make them.2The length of one curtain shall be eight and twenty cubits, and the breadth of one curtain four cubits: and every one of the curtains shall have one measure.

Exodus 26
30And thou shalt rear up the tabernacle according to the fashion thereof which was shewed thee in the mount. 31And thou shalt make a vail of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen of cunning work: with cherubims shall it be made: 32And thou shalt hang it upon four pillars of shittim wood overlaid with gold: their hooks shall be of gold, upon the four sockets of silver.

The colors of the courtyard

Exodus 27
16And for the gate of the court shall be an hanging of twenty cubits, of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen, wrought with needlework: and their pillars shall be four, and their sockets four.17All the pillars round about the court shall be filleted with silver; their hooks shall be of silver, and their sockets of brass.

The colors of the priests Ephod

Exodus 28

5And they shall take gold, and blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen. 6And they shall make the ephod of gold, of blue, and of purple, of scarlet, and fine twined linen, with cunning work. 7It shall have the two shoulderpieces thereof joined at the two edges thereof; and so it shall be joined together. 8And the curious girdle of the ephod, which is upon it, shall be of the same, according to the work thereof; even of gold, of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen. 9And thou shalt take two onyx stones, and grave on them the names of the children of Israel

Exodus 39
And of the blue, and purple, and scarlet, they made cloths of service, to do service in the holy place, and made the holy garments for Aaron; as the LORD commanded Moses. 2And he made the ephod of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen.

The colors of Israel are Purple Scarlet and Blue. Notice how Mystery Babylon is missing the color blue?
Why blue?

Numbers 4
10And they shall put it and all the vessels thereof within a covering of badgers' skins, and shall put it upon a bar. 11And upon the golden altar they shall spread a cloth of blue, and cover it with a covering of badgers' skins, and shall put to the staves thereof:And upon the golden altar they shall spread a cloth of blue, and cover it with a covering of badgers' skins, and shall put to the staves thereof: 2And they shall take all the instruments of ministry, wherewith they minister in the sanctuary, and put them in a cloth of blue, and cover them with a covering of badgers' skins, and shall put them on a bar:

37And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 38Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a ribband of blue: 39And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them ; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring:

The blue was symbolic of obediance to the Lord--- a symbol of purity and ministering unto the Lord. We are told. Proverbs 20: 30The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do stripes the inward parts of the belly.


This is why Mystery Babylon is missing blue-- she is without purity--a harlot.

Hosea 5:1-4
Hear ye this, O priests; and hearken, ye house of Israel; and give ye ear, O house of the king; for judgment is toward you, because ye have been a snare on Mizpah, and a net spread upon Tabor. And the revolters are profound to make slaughter, though I have been a rebuker of them all. I know Ephraim, and Israel is not hid from me: for now, O Ephraim, thou committest whoredom, and Israel is defiled.

Hosea 13:1-3
When Ephraim spake trembling, he exalted himself in Israel; but when he offended in Baal, he died. And now they sin more and more, and have made them molten images of their silver, and idols according to their own understanding, all of it the work of the craftsmen: they say of them, Let the men that sacrifice kiss the calves. Therefore they shall be as the morning cloud and as the early dew that passeth away, as the chaff that is driven with the whirlwind out of the floor, and as the smoke out of the chimney.

And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate naked,and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Hosea 13:4-9
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me. I did know thee in the wilderness, in the land of great drought. According to their pasture, so were they filled; they were filled, and their heart was exalted; therefore have they forgotten me. Therefore I will be unto them as a LION : as a LEOPARD by the way will I observe them: I will meet them as a BEAR that is bereaved of her whelps, and will rend the caul of their heart, and there will I devour them like a lion: the wild BEAST shall tear them.

Revelation 13
1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2And the beast which I saw was like unto a LEOPARD , and his feet were as the feet of a BEAR , and his mouth as the mouth of a LION : and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

These are just some scriptures. Its late I have to sleep.






Dear ILikeDeborah, I do believe that the Lord is revealing things to you at an eccelerated rate. You amaze me.

I think that this particular problem began when the reformers began studying prophecy about 500 years ago. Each generation believing that their generation would see the return of Christ. The Bible being a work that speaks to every era, it's easy to see how someone could make these mistakes. The RCC with its Vatican and the fine robes are practicing ancient traditions that began with Judaism. Why? Because the original Christians were Jews. Anyway, it is easy to see how someone in the 15th or 16th century could make this mistake. Particularly since Israel did not exist as a nation with no hint that it would any time soon. I do believe that people who are sold on interpretations made by people 500 years ago need to seriously reconsider.

Peace,
sojourner

Dear Miki, I did not mean to offend you. I understand that you don't much care for me, but I like you alot. I find that you have a remarkable way of putting things into words. Your form of speaking is like a diamond in the rough.

sojourner


1likedeb,

if Jerusalem is mystery bab....we have plenty of time before trib starts....jerusalem does not currently trade slaves, vehicles, ivory vessels etc...almost nothing on the list.....the world doesnt trade with israel, a lot of countries even have embargos against them...if Jerusalem is the city, we can all take a deep breath cause they are many yrs away from being able to fufill this prophecy literally. And Jerusalem may be the city but again i dont think so...you do...no big deal..at least one of us is wrong, maybe both of us. my point is, if we are very close to the end times, Dubai city is the only current city that currently fufills the prophecy literaly.




There are two nations in all the earth that make the kings of the earth drunk... these are Israel and Babylon.

Jeremiah 49
6Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the LORD's vengeance; he will render unto her a recompence. 7Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD's hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad. 8Babylon is suddenly fallen and destroyed: howl for her; take balm for her pain, if so be she may be healed.

Jeremiah 25
15For thus saith the LORD God of Israel unto me; Take the wine cup of this fury at my hand, and cause all the nations, to whom I send thee, to drink it. 16And they shall drink, and be moved, and be mad, because of the sword that I will send among them.17Then took I the cup at the LORD's hand, and made all the nations to drink, unto whom the LORD had sent me: 18To wit, Jerusalem, and the cities of Judah, and the kings thereof, and the princes thereof, to make them a desolation, an astonishment, an hissing, and a curse; as it is this day; 19Pharaoh king of Egypt, and his servants, and his princes, and all his people; 20And all the mingled people, and all the kings of the land of Uz, and all the kings of the land of the Philistines, and Ashkelon, and Azzah, and Ekron, and the remnant of Ashdod, 21Edom, and Moab, and the children of Ammon, 22And all the kings of Tyrus, and all the kings of Zidon, and the kings of the isles which are beyond the sea, 23Dedan, and Tema, and Buz, and all that are in the utmost corners, 24And all the kings of Arabia, and all the kings of the mingled people that dwell in the desert, 25And all the kings of Zimri, and all the kings of Elam, and all the kings of the Medes, 26And all the kings of the north, far and near, one with another, and all the kingdoms of the world, which are upon the face of the earth: and the king of Sheshach shall drink after them.

Notice here that in Jeremiah 25 that literal Sheshach(ie King of Babylon) is judged LAST. This is not so concerning Mystery Babylon in Revelation. Mystery Babylon must be the other nation that made all the kings of the earth mad.
Since there only two that do so then-- you can see why there is support in scripture that Mystery Babylon may be Jerusalem.




Now look in New Testament in Romans 11.

Romans 11
1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying, 3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. 7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.



Jeremiah 16
9For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will cause to cease out of this place in your eyes, and in your days, the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride.

Revelation 18
22And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;23And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. 24And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.


10And it shall come to pass, when thou shalt shew this people all these words, and they shall say unto thee, Wherefore hath the LORD pronounced all this great evil against us? or what is our iniquity? or what is our sin that we have committed against the LORD our God? 11Then shalt thou say unto them, Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the LORD, and have walked after other gods, and have served them, and have worshipped them, and have forsaken me, and have not kept my law; 12And ye have done worse than your fathers; for, behold, ye walk every one after the imagination of his evil heart, that they may not hearken unto me: 13Therefore will I cast you out of this land into a land that ye know not, neither ye nor your fathers; and there shall ye serve other gods day and night; where I will not shew you favour.

14Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; 15But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers. 16Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the LORD, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks. 17For mine eyes are upon all their ways: they are not hid from my face, neither is their iniquity hid from mine eyes. 18And first I will recompense their iniquity and their sin double; because they have defiled my land, they have filled mine inheritance with the carcases of their detestable and abominable things.

Notice Isreal will be judged double AFTER God puts them back in their land?

Jeremiah 16
9O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. 20Shall a man make gods unto himself, and they are no gods? 21Therefore, behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know mine hand and my might; and they shall know that my name is The LORD.

Romans 11
9And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: 10Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway. 11I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Romans 11
26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. 29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.


IfI am incorrect it could not be Dubai-- even if they started sending Christians to the chopping block tomorrow Dubai could not be responsible for every matyr on the face of the earth.

Jesus However said Jerusalem would be in MAtthew 23 and Luke 11. How much this must have brokeChrist's heart to say those words. sad.gif Christ can not come back until Jerusalem proclaims Him Messiah. smile.gif














Miki
Well...It is a sort of funny retort and seems to fit..However in all honesty l know l will never know some of you here. Perhaps the Lord will open a string for us to chew Sojourner. Are you male or female? Aren't you Catholic? Seems all my brain can pull out of the file.
sojourner
Yeah, I'm a female who happens to be catholic, Miki. I think that you and I are on different paths, but every now and then I look over and follow some of your discussions. I think that you could write your own book of Wisdom. It would be thought provoking and a few good laughs. wink.gif

sojourner

Miki
Well...Catholics don't bother me...only their theology. tongue.gif Did l tell you my Doctor whom l love dearly is a Catholic? God looks at our heart not our theology... Are we really on different paths? There is only one. Jesus. He is the way the truth and the light. May God bless you as you continue in love.
THE SEVEN THUNDERS
I have conceived created and will be proposing to California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger the construction of a world-premiere "New City" to be located on the San Joaquin River in Central California. It will be a major export/import global financial center, a neo-geopolitical diplomatic capital, and a world-class premiere vacation resort destination that will initially cover 26 square miles. I have named it "New Garden City", and it is in the midst of the "Garden of the World", the Great Central Valley of California, which exports billions of dollars annually in produce and agricultural by-products throughout the Earth. The city will radiate from a 3 by 5 mile island and feature a Worldport 5-berth cruise ship terminal.

As I have developed this project, I have often wondered if it is the “New City Babylon” to serve the purpose of fulfilling God’s prophetic scenario at the end of our age, for it does appear to be the "New City" that Nostradamus spoke of that will be near the "garden of the world" with its gleaming hollowed-out mountains (skyscrapers). The center of the city is named “Metrocore” and will showcase a 2013-feet tall world trade tower, which will be the tallest building in the United States. New Garden City will continue the legacy theme to a major World Expo upon which the city is based that I am simultaneously planning and designing for the site, which will have its grand opening in the spring of 2013, and will feature breathtaking monuments to rival any world-class city. It will be the largest World’s Fair in human history covering 1,700 acres, about double the size of New York City’s Central Park. Additionally, a prime element to the Expo and City will be a regional world trade agreement and the establishment of an economic trade alliance between 53 nations. The project will be a 25-year building program with a 50 to 75 billion dollar price tag.

The Lord has appeared to have selected the Expo/City site, for it is geographically aligned in such a way to the town of Bethlehem and the Great Pyramid of Giza in Egypt, for reasons too complicated to explain here. The design and plan is impregnated with sacred numbers and sacred geometry affiliated with the Resurrected Christ, particularly with the Christ Code Number “888”, which sums to the “Dominical Number 24”. Oddly, the name “San Joaquin” from Saint Joachim, the reputed father of the Virgin Mary, literally means “God establishes”. Due west of the site is the “Golden Gate” where the Golden Gate bridge is located. I think it is peculiar that the Jews are waiting for their Messiah to enter through the “Golden Gate” in the ruined walls of Jerusalem; the parallel is uncanny. The other oddity is that due southwest in the western horizon can be seen the highest mountain in the region, Mt. Diablo (Devil Mountain), perhaps a formidable portent of things to come.

I guess time will tell if New Garden City will eventually become corrupted into the New City Babylon. Satan corrupts everything. And if so, then it is obviously part of God’s plan to fulfill His Word.
Messiahiscoming
duncdrewnoah said....

QUOTE
Dubai exports everything listed in rev 18...in fact, it is the only city in the world to do so. check it yourself and look at what they are building, truely a city like no other.


I am a little confused.... I have always read that Mystery Babylon is not the exporter of the merchandise but the buyer. That is why the merchants of these things are weeping and mourning.... because there is no one to buy their merchandise any longer.

Revelation 18

10Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
11And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
12The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
13And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
14And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
15The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
16And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
17For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
18And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city! 19And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate
.

So in my opinion the candiate for Mystery Babylon does not have to be an "Exporter" of these goods.... only the receiver of them. smile.gif and although I have not done much research into this.... I would safely say that we in the US would be a receiver of everything that is listed in Rev 18.

I have done a little checking around on this city of Dubai and it is sure enough quite a city..... and I of course have looked into the Vacitcan..... but NY is still standing tall in my opinion,

Your Friend in Christ,
Val
Messiahiscoming

Simple
Wherever it is, Babylon is a city on 7 hills.
duncdrewnoah
QUOTE(simplebaby @ Oct 15 2007, 04:14 AM) [snapback]124295[/snapback]

Wherever it is, Babylon is a city on 7 hills.


messiahiscoming,

Dubai produces almost nothing but buys it and then resales it (exports)...they either produce it (they make cars now but import the parts) or they buy it from other countries (like ivory) and resale it...everything on the list in revelation....notice to that the beast and his 10 kings hate babylon and destroy it....dubai is already hated among the arab nations because they host rich westeners for profit and are not actively islamic....
Messiahiscoming
QUOTE
Dubai exports everything listed in rev 18...in fact, it is the only city in the world to do so. check it yourself and look at what they are building, truely a city like no other.


I am curious to know where you got your information concerning that Dubai is the only city to export these goods? What exactly was on the list that other cities did not export? I did do some checking but I am not finding what you are saying. And were you looking at the leading exporter of these goods or the leading importers of them? I do understand of the trade thing that you repsonded to me about in the above thread. Yet I feel that whomever this city is must be the Major Importer ... not exporter. I did do some checking but I am not finding what you are saying. I was just wondering if you could post your source?

Like I said in another post.... it is certainly quite a city..... My husband watched a special on I believe 60 Min. last night. It is certainly a happening spot. Yet I am reminded of a post I read here a very long time ago..... and I am wondering if the City of Dubai would fit all of these prophecies as well....



http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=24&hl=

QUOTE
Understanding who THE PLAYERS ARE is essential if you are to come to any understanding of THE TRUTH OF BIBLE PROPHECY, and why world events are happening as they are. Remember that Jesus warned us that DECEPTION was the KEY TO THE RISE OF ANTICHRIST. That means HE COMES TO POWER IN A PLACE NOT RECOGNIZED, AT A TIME NOT RECOGNIZED, and IN A MANNER NOT RECOGNIZED even by the vast majority of God's people, let alone the world at large. The prophetic world today is in a DEEP DELUSION, and they are looking in the WRONG AREA for the rise of the antichrist forces and LUCIFER.

We begin with an understanding of THE ACTUAL PARAMETERS that God laid down to IDENTIFY THE CHIEF PLAYER OF THE END TIMES - BABYLON THE GREAT, THAT MIGHTY END TIME NATION THAT THINKS ITS LIFE IS ETERNAL, AND WILL NEVER SEE SORROW.

WHAT THE PROPHETS SAID ABOUT BABYLON

1. Babylon would be an END TIME GREAT NATION (Rev 17,18; Isa 13:6).

2. Babylon would have a huge seaport city within its borders (Rev 18:17).

3. The Great City Babylon is the home of a world government attempt (Rev 17:18).

4. The Great City Babylon would be the economic nerve center of the world (Rev 18:3).

5. Babylon would be the center of a one world Luciferian religious movement (Jer 51:44).

6. Babylon would be the center for the move to a global economic order (Rev 13:16).

BABYLON THE NATION

1. Babylon would be the youngest and greatest of the end time nations (Jer 50:12).

2. Babylon would the QUEEN AMONG THE NATIONS (Isa 47:5,7; Rev 18:7).

3. Babylon would be the most powerful nation in the world (Isa 47, Jer 50, 51, Rev 18).

4. Babylon would be the HAMMER OF THE WHOLE EARTH (Jer 50:23; Rev 18:23).

5. Babylon is called a lady, and has the symbol of the Lady (Isa 47:7-9).

6. Babylon would be the praise of the WHOLE EARTH (Jer 51:41).

7. Babylon is center of world trade (Jer 51:44; Rev 17:18; 18:19).

8. Babylon would grow to be the richest nation in the world (Rev 18:3, 7, 19, 23).

9. All nations that traded with Babylon would grow rich (Rev 18:3).

10. The merchants of Babylon were the GREAT MEN OF THE EARTH (Rev 18:23).

11. Babylon is a huge nation, with lands, cities, and great wealth (implied throughout).

12. Babylon is nation "peeled", or timbered, a land of open fields (Isa 18:2).

13. Babylon is land quartered by mighty rivers (Isa 18:2).

14. Babylon is a land that is measured out, and populated throughout (Isa 18:2).

15. Babylon destroys her own land, with pollution and waste (Isa 14:20, 18:2, 7).

16. Babylon is a land rich in mineral wealth (Jer 51:13).

17. Babylon is a the leading agricultural nation of the world (Jer 50, 51; Rev 18).

18. Babylon is the leading exporting nation in the world (Jer 51:13; Rev 18).

19. Babylon is the leading importing nation of the entire world.(Jer 50, 51; Rev 18).

20. Babylon is a nation filled with warehouses and granaries (Jer 50:26).

21. Babylon is the leading INDUSTRIAL NATION OF THE WORLD (Isa 13, 47, Jer 50, 51; Rev 18).

22. Babylon is noted for her horses (Jer 50:37).

23. Babylon is noted for her cattle, sheep and other livestock (Jer 50:26, 27; Rev 18:13).

24. Babylon is noted for her fine flour and mill operations (Rev 18:13).

25. Babylon is a nation of farmers and harvests huge crops (Jer 50:16, 26, 27).

26. Babylon is a huge exporter of MUSIC (Rev 18:22).

27. Babylon's musicians are known around the world (Rev 18:22)

28. Babylon has a huge aviation program (Isa 14:13-14; Jer 51:53; Hab 1:6-10).

29. Babylon's skies are filled with the whisper of aircraft wings (Isa 18:1; Jer 51:53).

30. Babylon has a huge space industry, has "mounted up to the heavens" (Jer 51:53).

31. Babylon fortifies her skies with a huge military aviation program (Jer 51:53).

32. Babylon is portrayed as a leading in high tech weapons and abilities (Jer 51:53; Hab 1:6-10; implied throughout).

33. Babylon is a nation filled with warm water seaports (Rev 18:17-19).

34. Babylon is a coastal nation and sits upon MANY WATERS (Jer 51:13).

35. Babylon trades with all who have ships in the sea year round (Rev 18:17-18).

36. Babylon is nation filled with a "mingled" people (Jer 50:37).

37. Babylon is a SINGULAR NATION founded upon OUT OF MANY, ONE (Isa 13, 47, Jer 50, 51, Hab 1).

38. Babylon is a REPUBLIC or a DEMOCRACY, it is ruled by many counsels (Isa 47:13).

39. Babylon's governmental system breaks down (Isa 47:13).

40. Babylon is bogged down with deliberations and cannot govern properly (Isa 47:13).

41. Babylon's leaders use astrology, seers and mystics for guidance (Isa 47:13; Rev 18:2).

42. Babylon labored in the occult from her very inception (Isa 47:12).

43. Babylon falls to the occult just before her end by nuclear fire (Rev 18:2)

44. Babylon was born as a CHRISTIAN NATION (Jer 50:12).

45. Babylon turns upon its heritage and destroys it all in the end (Jer 50:11).

46. Babylon's Christian leaders lead their flock astray in prophecy and salvation (Jer 50:6; implied Rev 18:2).

47. Babylon's Christian leaders are "strangers" in the Lord Houses of Worship (Jer 51:51).

48. The people of Babylon are deep into astrology and spiritism (Isa 47:12; Rev 18:2).

49. Babylon becomes the home of all antichrist religions in the world (Rev 18:2).

50. Babylon is a nation of religious confusion (Isa 47:12-13).

51. Babylon turns upon its own people and imprisons and slays them by millions (Jer 50:7,33; 51:35; 39; Dan 7:25; Rev 13:7; 17:6; 18:24).

52. Babylon sets of detention centers for Jews and Christians and rounds them up for extermination (Jer 50:7, 33; 51:35, 49; Rev 17:6; 18:24).

53. Babylon has a mother nation that remains in existence from her birth to death (Jer 50: 12).

54. The mother of Babylon has the symbol of the LION (Dan7:4; Eze 38:13; Jer 51:38; Psalms 17:12).

55. The mother of Babylon will rule over her daughter her entire life (Dan 7:4; Jer 50:12).

56. The mother of Babylon will be a state of major decline as the end nears (Jer 50:12).

57. Babylon is considered to be a lion's whelp (Eze 38:13; Jer 51:38).

58. Babylon will have the symbol of the EAGLE and builds her nest in the stars (Dan 7:4 EAGLE WINGS; Isa 14:13-14; Jer 51:53).

59. Babylon turns totally antichrist and is the leading antichrist power at the end (Rev 18:2; Isa 14:4-6).

60. THE KING OF BABYLON is called LUCIFER, the ANTICHRIST (Isa 14:4-6).

61. The King of Babylon will rule from THE GREAT CITY BABYLON (Isa 14:4-6; Rev 17: 18).

62. A world government entity will rise up to rule the world from BABYLON THE CITY (Isa 14; Hab 2, Rev 13, 17, 18).

63. This world entity will be a diverse entity, different than all other ruling bodies of the world (Dan 7:7, 23).

64. This entity will be a TREATY POWER ENTITY (Dan 7:7, 23 DIVERSE).

65. This entity will rise up and use the military power of Babylon the nation to RULE THE WORLD (Isa 14:4-6; Hab 1 & 2, Rev 13, 17).

66. Babylon is a huge producer and exporter of automobiles (Jer 50:37; Rev 18:13).

67. Babylon is a nation of CRAFTSMEN, experts in their trade (Jer 50, 51, Rev 18:22).

68. Babylon is noted for her jewelry of gold and silver (Rev 18:22).

69. Babylon is a huge importer and exporter of spices (Rev 18:13).

70. Babylon is a huge exporter of fine marble products (Rev 18:22).

71. Babylon is noted for her iron and steel production (Rev 18:12).

72. Babylon has huge corporations that have bases around the world (Rev 18:23, implied throughout)

73. Babylon is a nation of higher education and learning (Isa 47:10, implied throughout).

74. Babylon is a nation with a GREAT VOICE in world affairs (Jer 51:55)

75. Babylon is a VIRGIN NATION, untouched by major war (Isa 47:1).

76. Babylon has a vast military machine (Jer 50:36; 51:30; Hab 1 & 2, Rev 13:4).

77. Babylon will be instrumental in the setting up of Israel in the Middle East, and is the home of God's people (Jer 50:47; 51:45).

78. Babylon will have a major enemy to her north (Jer 50:3, 9, 41).

79. Babylon's enemy will lie on the opposite side of the world, over the poles (Isa 13:5)

80. The enemy of Babylon will be a FEDERAL OF NATIONS (Jer 50:9).

81. The enemy of Babylon will be largely Moslem in make-up (Jer 50:17; Rev 17:16; Psalms 83:5-12).

82. The enemy of Babylon will have nuclear missiles capable of reaching Babylon (Jer 50:9, 14,; Rev 18:8, 18).

83. The enemy of Babylon will be noted for her cruelty (Isa 13, 14, Jer 50, 51, Rev 17, 18).

84. The enemy of Babylon will also have a huge aviation military machine (Jer 50:9, 14, Rev 18:8, 18 implied throughout).

85. The enemy of Babylon will come into Babylon unnoticed (Isa 47:11, Jer 50:24; 51:2, 14).

86. Babylon will be filled with her enemies brought in under the guise of peace (Dan 11:21).

87. Babylon will have all of her borders cut off, and there will be no way of

escape (Jer 50:28; 51:32).

88. Babylon will be destroyed by nuclear fire (Implied throughout)

89. Babylon is land vast land with huge cities, towns and villages throughout (Implied throughout).

90. Babylon will have been a huge missionary nation for Jesus Christ (Jer 50:11; 51:7).

91. Babylon would be a home to multitudes of Jews who leave (Jer 50:4-6, 8; 51:6, 45)

92. The people of Babylon would not know their true identity (Jer 50:6, implied throughout).

93. The people of Babylon would think they are God's elect and eternal (Isa 47:7-8, Rev 18:7).

94. The people of Babylon would enjoy the highest standard of living in the world (Rev 18:7).

95. The people of Babylon would grow mad upon their idols (Jer 50:2, 38; Hab 2:18).

96. The people of Babylon would go into deep sins of all kinds (Rev 18:5).

97. The nation Babylon dwells carelessly before the Lord (Isa 47:8).

98. Babylon becomes proud, haughty, and does not consider her end (Isa 47:7-8).

99. Babylon deals in the occult, in sorceries and drugs (Isa 47:9, 12; Rev 18:23)


Your Friend in Christ,
Val
Messiahiscoming


duncdrewnoah
QUOTE(Messiahiscoming @ Oct 15 2007, 11:30 AM) [snapback]124360[/snapback]

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Dubai exports everything listed in rev 18...in fact, it is the only city in the world to do so. check it yourself and look at what they are building, truely a city like no other.


I am curious to know where you got your information concerning that Dubai is the only city to export these goods? What exactly was on the list that other cities did not export? I did do some checking but I am not finding what you are saying. And were you looking at the leading exporter of these goods or the leading importers of them? I do understand of the trade thing that you repsonded to me about in the above thread. Yet I feel that whomever this city is must be the Major Importer ... not exporter. I did do some checking but I am not finding what you are saying. I was just wondering if you could post your source?

Like I said in another post.... it is certainly quite a city..... My husband watched a special on I believe 60 Min. last night. It is certainly a happening spot. Yet I am reminded of a post I read here a very long time ago..... and I am wondering if the City of Dubai would fit all of these prophecies as well....