ONLY the Vatican specifically fulfills ALL the elements of prophetic description of "Babylon the Great".

Only the Vatican has been fulfilling the description for over a thousand years before USA even existed.

In spite of the fact that America DOES NOT fulfill most of the descriptions, some insist that America [or Dubai etc] is "Babylon the Great".

Demonstrating that for many, specific fulfillment of the Revelation description means nothing.

Demonstrating a "my minds made up so don't confuse me with the facts" mentality.

Certainly the "Great Whore" does have a many children.

All the rest of what is commonly known as organized "christian" religion. Most notably the "protestant" denomionation organizations.

America was originally culturally Protestant dominated. Early on RC was vying for political power.

By around 1850 head judge of the supreme court was a Roman Catholic by name of Roger Taney.

Roger Taney wrote the "Dred Scott" decision which was greatly appreciated by slave owners.

Movement to end slavery was far and away a Protestant movement.

Protestant culture was politically defeated by Roman Catholicism some decades ago.

Mary Surrat was hanged for participating in Lincoln assassination.

Her son John Surrat, who also knew Booth berfore the assassination, was "on the run" while his mother was tried and hanged.

John Surrat was eventually found and extradited back to USA.

Where was he found ? He was found working at the Vatican as a Papal "Zouave".

America has been Roman Catholic dominated since sometime prior to the take over by JFK.

If America had been completely RC dominated in 1939, America would have supported Roman Catholic Hitler. Like most [if not all] RC countries did.

American Cathoics brought USA into the war in Vietnam to support the RC ruling class of S.Vietnam.

American Catholics caused USA to enable the RC Croats to fullfill their WW2 goal of ridding Croatia of Orthodox Serbs.

Catholics and Moslems had tactical alliance against Serbs.

Catholic educated Bill Clinton invoked name of the pope when he gave speech justifying his decision to bomb the Serbs to aid the Moslems.

As Reagan invoked name of pope to justify his aid of Cardinal Bravos "Contras".

Reagan also aided Moslems against Orthodox Russians.

Saying "America" did this or that does not convey relevant truth about WHO caused America to do "this or that".

Gideon said,


Gentalasadove, you must consider this, today Babylon repeats itself as does the so called NWO. America slaughtered the Indians for Gains sake. We did not do it because they were extraordinarily violent. The wealthiest of the world did it to get them out to the way of their intended progress. Things have not changed with Iraq. Do not fool yourself.

We only hear our president telling us what they want us to hear. The media is all part of this grand illusion, scam, or false hood if you would. They all claim that we are there, according to our president, to liberate Iraq and make them a democracy. By the way, America is no longer a democracy or a republic we just have a circus of politicians every four years to make us think we still are. This circus of phonies if you would have dooped many into thinking they are doing write by the American people. In all actuality the rich men of the world, mostly demented Americans, and Brits, went to Iraq to gain control of the great monetary resources in that region. Do not kid yourself, the people making out the most on this deal are Halliburton (Dick Chaney was their former CEO, BTW), Enron, BP, Mobile, Chevron, Ford, Chevy, Shell, Clark, Texaco and many other massive oil companies, not to mention Skidmore, Owins, and Merrill. We only here and see what they want us to here. They do not run the news you see in countries overseas it would devastate them if all Americans new what was really going on. Here is an article that may make that clearer to you.

The Arabs are like Indians that American politics, media, and corporations are taking advantage of. We slaughter the Indians into submission, and then we told them, Oh we will trade with you, btw. Nothing is different, read between the lines. Now we are telling the Iraqis, oh we can help you, we will trade with you. Iran is next on the hit list. Even if America has to wound herself and blame it on Iran to attack it she will.. Hitler used the same tactics. Now it is survival of the fittest. This corrupt government feels since we have the overwhelming power and technology, let us take advantage of it any way we can, and they are, and will.

But. I really believe we will soon enter the tribulation, 2012 does make allot of sense. America will only flex its mussels for a while and soon be annihilated. For these Indians or Arabs want vengeance and they will find it with the beast that comes from America and most likely Russia. Russia has interest in the Middle East also, as well as China.

All this US development in Dubai and elsewhere is a bunch of fewy. It is not going to work. Chicago, New York, LA, Atlanta, San Francisco, Miami, etc all developed out of necessity. Now we are doopin these people and telling them, let us build you great cities like ours and you will prosper. It does not work that way. We bomb them into submission. Make them think we are making them rich by buying their oil and raising the price of the barrel; OPEC's doing, American oil companies are making the bulk of the money, check the profit reports. Then we tell them let us build you big cities now that you have to money to do this. When the economy crashes, and it will, these nations they are trying to clone into the American way of life will go mad. After all they will realize that all their wealth has been stolen by the parasitic WASP people.

Here is an article of interest. While it is always not good to believe what you read and hear in the paper and on TV, sometimes it is good to diversify your sources. Truth will be somewhere in-between and most likely further away from anything America has to offer.. There are many other sources out there that indicate this also.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/mi...war-431114.html

Not to mention the US has more oil in Alaska now then Saudi Arabia. They even have another oil field in the Gulf now, as big as the Saudis. They are doing all this for many reasons, control of the world and America, to take away so called liberties, to keep the prices of oil going up, to make more money. Do you recall, when the politicians were saying that the Middle East was volatile and for such the gas price were high? Now that we have subdued Iraq, why do they continue to rise, because the big profiteers are fat, disgusting, hell bond, filthy rich sick and demented people? They kill on mass levels to make money. They form and tear down governments to make money. They are very evil people and they lie to you every day.

I thought so, that it was in or near sanfrancisco. They just legalized gay marriages there too..san fran is a city on seven hills too

When people talk about the "Seven Hills" of San Francisco, they refer to the seven original hills: Telegraph Hill, Nob Hill, Russian Hill, Rincon Hill, Mount Sutro, Twin Peaks and Mount Davidson.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_San_F...alifornia_Hills

cp rev 17:

9And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

This may be satans head quarters,[rev 2 : 13] in america, the great babylon..something devasting may happen to sanfrancisco very soon..the end of the world is on us..

Check this out,


http://blog.ourtask.org/2007/02/armed-robb...exxonmobil.html

Absurd speculations.

Five of the mountains [heads of the beast, human kingdoms and related king positions] have fallen according to Revelation's account. These "mountains" are not literal "mountains" at all.

Ah, very true Stephen, for in the Old Testament a mountain can be considered a nation or great kingdom. Hopefully sometime this weekend we will see how that ties into Babylon being the seventh mountain, head or horn. The statue of liberty depicts that also with the 7 horns upon her head, the seven heads, and or spikes. This indicated that as a mother of immigrants she has taken on the position of being the seventh head. Notice the beast is represented by these seven heads also, later he merges with 10 horns to destroy the harlot, sounds just like American politics and America's current day corperate structures, step and stomp on anyone attempting to climb that latter of success.

Indeed five were fallen in John’s time and one was or one was ruling in his time. That was the sixth or the Roman Empire as we know it. These ancient empires were bent on depicting symbols of the occult for national symbols. They placed these occultist symbols on money, and they even built temples or groves unto the many false gods they worshiped, especially, Moloch the owl god. America must be the Harlot or seventh empire, mountain as it fits her perfectly. She is a culmination of the previous six, finalized in the seventh. That is why we see Egyptian symbolism, Babylonian symbolism, Grecian symbolism, and a democratic or republic type of government that has been misconstrued to the point of uselessness.

Oh Stephen, I admire your tenacity and patience with those who can not see beyond the physical.

A stone is a thought
A Rock is a group of stones with extreme coherence inside
A Mountain is a high Rock and a Hill is a local smaller Rock.

THE Rock is Jesus.

Interesting..

The 7 heads of Satan's beast are 7 human kingdoms [mountains]. Five have fallen [before the first century] and there are two additional scheduled for the time of the end. First a smaller 6th and then an expanded divided 7th. All of these are Middle Eastern kingdoms. The beast is Abaddon-Apollyon [he is the fallen angelic king of the abyss] and he will operate through the human little horn, king of the northern Middle East at the time of the end. The little horn will rule both of the beast's 6th and 7th kingdoms [Daniel 7:7-8, 8:9-12, 9:26, 11:36-45, 12:7]. Abaddon-Apollyon [the beast] once "was" ruling [over the past 5 kingdoms for Satan], now is "not" because he is imprisoned in the abyss, and he will be released to rule again [Revelation 9:11, 11:7, 13:1-10, 17:8-14]. Ten other human kings will rule with him. MBG's "great city" is not a Middle Eastern kingdom and this kingdom will be destroyed by the beast and the other ten kings in one day. This kingdom is symbolized by the burning "mountain" in Revelation 8:8, 17:16-18, and 18:1-21. The beast will also conquer the Middle East, fend off all other opposition against his ambition to rule the world, and he also will invade and occupy Israel for 42 months. The beast will also incarnate the human little horn and become the 8th king himself. The Lord will destroy the beast's kingdom at Armageddon and His millennial kingdom [stone, mountain, kingdom] will replace the beast's 7th divided kingdom and fill the whole earth [Daniel 2:34-35]

gideon:



Gideon, I believe you are on target, so does the us currency have all those foreign symbols on it ?

We are skipping much in Daniel, because I believe this is where we currently are in Bible prophecy.

The ram which thou sawest having [two] horns [are] the kings of Media and Persia. This must plainly be modern day Iraq and Iran, as they became Persia, after conquering the Babylonians in about 457 BC. Later they would split into two horns or nations in about 1935 and become Iran and Iraq. Origianlly the Persian Empire even spread thinly into Asia.

And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat [had] a notable horn between his eyes.


Dan 8:6 And he came to the ram that had [two] horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power.

We see in these verses, I believe the US, Babylon, coming to the ram in fury, 911. The US has attacked Iraq in fury, rapid anger. Another interesting thing to note is that the He goat touch not the earth, jets and boats were use to arrive at the rams country or homeland; it also came from the West on the face of the whole earth or from the other side of the world, literally. The US has conquered one horn and another lager or second one remains to be conquered. That is why we believe the US will soon attack Iran. I strongly believe Iran is next on the geopolitical structures' hit list. The primary reason is not to spread democracy, but to capture control of the vast oil reserves in both nations. We see that has been accomplished with Iraq now it is time for Iran's to face this he goat beast, America. Strangely, the Bible uses an occult symbol to depict this beast, the goat.

Attempting to shift past fulfilled prophecy into the current geopolitical area will never return a correct rendering of the scriptures and your speculations will fail for sure. I already see many errors in your end time exegesis as presented in relationship to the visions of the Bible prophets.

Gideon , said what. You have got to be kidding. These are modern day prophecies not past. That is why it was told to Daniel that these were sealed up until the end. I think you are funny. I suppose the abomination that makes desolate and the rebuilding of the temple are ancient too, correct or is that incorrect.

Those pretribers have to make something up to try and fit there agenda of falacy, and error. This is the destruction of Modern day horns not past. The past is seen in here, so as I see it, you have confused the far past with the near past and present.


the far past
This image's head [was] of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,


Dan 2:33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.


Dan 2:34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet [that were] of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.


Dan 2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.


Dan 2:36 ¶ This [is] the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.


Dan 2:37 Thou, O king, [art] a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.


Dan 2:38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou [art] this head of gold. Ancient Babylon, thou art

Dan 2:39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth. Medes and Persians, Iraq and Iran and parts of Asia, Persian

The Third is Grecia, or Greece, Alexander the Great, etc, ironically, known as the kingdom of brass

Dan 2:40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all [things]: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. The Roman Empire, became divided as clay and iron and weak, ironically, known as the kingdom of iron. They ruled with iron wheels, chariots, swords, and shields

Dan 2:41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. The Roman Empire split into two parts, historical fact. One kingdom was weaker than the other, but as clay and iron do not mix, the empire clumbled and fell apart into city state provinces, eventually becoming seperate nations, at which point we arrive in modern day times, Daniel 7 and 8, a repeat of the past.


Dan 2:42 And [as] the toes of the feet [were] part of iron, and part of clay, [so] the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.


Dan 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.


Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, [but] it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Ah, Chist is born and establishes his kingdom with the power of the resurrection, literally. Figuratively, when the four systems of rule reimerge, as they have and are, His kingdom shall be established after the culmination of all four hit the scenes again. Now, we are in the final four, or last seen. The culination of the previous four four, to make it the seventh and eighth. Hope I did not confuse you. It can be and takes alot of explaining and interpretation.

Are you kddding me, this is happening now. Daniel 7 and 8. We see clearly that history is repeating itself. God is speeking prophetically and figuratively, not literally in the sense you have described. If he were, why does he mention the antichrist, the end, the saints possessing the kingdom, the rebuilt temple, the sacrifices, and the abomination desolation. It is you that are thoroughly confuded. History is merely repeating itself and God uses old Kingdom names to dipict the presence of ancient forms of governments and false worship. For such we see the Kingdom of Grecia mentioned along side the sacrifices being stopped and the abomination that makes desolate. ooooh, this will take some time to reason and explain.

The student of Bible prophecy must rightly divide the Word of God knowing what is fulfilled prophecy and what is left to be fulfilled. I am not kidding you. 40 years of in detail study of the prophetic scriptures and related geopolitical movements from the flood forward has taught me much. Most of your speculations are fast and loose and there is much indication to me that you need more time in the scriptures. You are way off course on some very major foundational precepts of the visions of the Bible prophets.

By the way, I take back my apology as you did infer that the Roman Catholic church was Babylon the harlot. I thought you did, I just had to find it. Here it is.

I agree with this last paragraph you posted above. Daniel 7 is an out line of the events that are the end of the Age. Daniel 8 goes into more of the details then chapter 7. Chapter 9 is very informative from another angle of the End of the Age as 7 and 8, the prayer Daniel is praying has great meaning to the end of the Age. Daniel is praying for his PEOPLE that concerns them in the End of the AGE. Daniel9:7 says: Lord, THIS DAY we are covered with SHAME--THE MEN OF JUDAH and the people of JERUSALEM, AND ALL ISRAEL. (a time that is God's wrath upon the people, to make atonement as Isa 27:9) When his eyes were opened to the vision Dan 8:27 states that Daniel was APPALLED by the vision, it was BEYOND UNDERSTANDING. God was giving Daniel different visions through out his captivity that concerned the end of the Age. As Daniel was given understanding in each vision he reacted as described in scriptures. This time for God's people is a day of destruction for those that have not worshiped the great God and only a remnant is saved in it to start the millennium from what I read and understand in the prophets that speak also on the End of the Age.

To read the prophecy on the end of the Age by the other prophets of the bible give more understanding in what is going to take place with the house of Israel, the nations involved and the terrifying time upon the earth. We The Saints are going before this beast/8th king spoken of in Dan 7:25, Rev 13:7. The Good News is that our God will be with us and He will bring us through this BIRTH CANAL we are going to go through, called a tribulation. Like a woman in child birth. The joy we feel upon delivery is beyond description. Praise be to our God that delivers us Isa 26:17 As a woman with a child about to give birth writhes and cries out in her pain, so were we in your presence, O Lord. Our Lord is coming!

"By the way, I take back my apology as you did infer that the Roman Catholic church was Babylon the harlot. I thought you did, I just had to find it. Here it is."

>Hobgoblin

>By the way, you must not be able to read what is in front of you face:

>This is exactly what I wrote and you posted it again. Do you need glasses? Is English your primary language?


"The position of the "woman" at the time of the end is global and her "great city" part is a financial, economic, and commercial trading center ..... not the Vatican. The description in Revelation 17 and 18 is not the RCC. The 7 "hills" are not the hills of Rome either."

"So for example, the crusades and inquisitions are not even in the scope. The idea that these visions described the Pope and the RCC alone is reformation theology which was designed to fit the reformers' day and is not an accurate rendering of the prophetic scriptures."


>One who resorts to deliberate lying about an issue is very suspect in my opinion.

Gideon said,

Yes, I understand. I also went to a very "prominent Bible college", they attempted to cram their theological interpretations of prophecy and scriptural interpretations down my throat, also. Fortunately, time has proven them wrong in both Christian practice and theological interpretations. I do not claim to know all prophecies, but I definitely believe I am on the straight and narrow tract, not only with prophecy and eschatology, but also with regards to the second coming, two areas in which most local, new testament congregations and churches fail grossly: The reason for this failure: church wealth and family, and church traditions. No one wants to step outside the box and think on their own, most let others do it for them.

I was taught the same doctrines you are leaning to and I know them quite well. I was also taught the pretrib false doctrine and know for a fact; Christ can not come back at any moment, at least currently as pretribers claim. There is just simply too much in prophecy that has to be fulfilled first. Once the prophecies are fulfilled, then and only then, can Christ my Savior come back at any moment? We have not arrived at that stage yet. I do not see a world government yet; though I see a conspiracy to create one. I do not see a Jewish Temple built, yet. Though there is a desire and an organized plan, effort, and people in place to do that today. We do not see many, many things, yet. All we see is a bunch of so called deceived Christians that can not defend this false doctrine of the second coming, pretibulationalism. I suggest we start here as it was mentioned first.

I have a suggestion, let me finish this Babylon being a mountain first. It will not take long. Secondly, we can go on to each of us presenting our proofs for the second coming of Christ. We can do this step by step, verse by verse, with what fundamentalism holds as a literal interpretation, using the most effective, expository interpretation and order. I believe most will find it is not literal at all, but rather as I stated before, wishful, fairytale thinking. You being pretriber, and naturally, I will present the posttrib fact. I will also display and prove that the pretrib fallacy is heresy. Our churches have lead believers on a wishful, thinking fairytale of some sorts, as today’s Bible colleges and seminaries have done, also.

Remember you said this on May 7, 2008.



I stongly suggest we start right were you left off. This could take 2 weeks.

"Remember you said this on May 7, 2008."

>You don't have to remind me of what I said. I have said the same for years, know every related nook and turn of the various theories regarding the Lord's coming judgment, and do not forget anything. Your stand against the Lord's early "harpazo" action is satanically driven in my opinion even though you may not be aware of its origin. So there is no need to debate this issue with me. I also will ask you not to miss-quote me as you did in order to discredit my views. I will catch you every time and you will discount your own reputation in the view of the readers on this forum. Your mix and brand of scriptural content with loose handed foretelling does not impress me at all.

Gideon7620 said,


Interesting, frankly, I think the pretrib fallacy is inspired by Satan. I am very convinced of that. It is believed by most merely because they have been taught to believe it and not because they have studied it for themselves and have become learned in this subject. After the post of Babylon being a mountain, then I will go along and discuss the postrib rapture, fact. I do not believe I misquoted you, as I recall you misquoted your self and denied any link to inferring the Roman Catholic Church was Babylon, as you did. Do not get me wrong, I appreciate your input, but what exactly is your view on the Harlot. These are two completely different views you suggested were right.



QUOTE (Stephen @ May 18 2008, 12:59 PM)
Your view is warped and based upon the idea of "double" fulfillment of O.T. prophecies. The city of ancient Babylon no longer exists in the Middle East and it will not. What is in the development stage there is a confederation and consolidation of 10 Islamic states that will be lead by the little horn presented in Daniel's visions and the same as Revelation's beast. These are the ones who will destroy the "great cty" part of MBG and its location will not be in the Middle East. These same intransigents will also invade and occupy Israel for 42 months.



QUOTE (Stephen @ May 6 2008, 09:42 AM)
"Ever heard of the Inquisitions ? Vatican been mass murdering Jesus's people [labeled "heretics" by the "great whore"] for many centuries.

How people can avoid seeing that the Vatican is the "geat whore" is a mystery to me. It is so obvious.

"seven hills", "shed the blood of martyrs", "fornicating with kings", "very rich", "dominating multitudes of people", fulfillment, fulfillment, fulfillment like nothing else on earth.'

>MBG is much greater than an just an apostate religious system and is "total" intransigent unbelieving humanity existing from the post flood era to this very day. The position of the "woman" at the time of the end is global and her "great city" part is a financial, economic, and commercial trading center ..... not the Vatican. The description in Revelation 17 and 18 is not the RCC. The 7 "hills" are not the hills of Rome either. These are "mountains" dominions, kingdoms of the beast which have existed over time in the Middle East in the scope of the vision. Five of them have fallen and are historical. Five of the "hills" of Rome have not fallen .... this makes no sense at all. MBG is guilty for killing "all" who have been slain on the earth in one way or another. This statement incorporates "all" of the ways in which lost human society [organization] and self government has and eventually will destroy the human spirit .... count them. The other thing one needs to know is that the scope of the visions is limited and it does not include any earthly events from the end of about 33 A.D. to this very day. The unfulfilled portion of the events of the scope are still future. So for example, the crusades and inquisitions are not even in the scope. The idea that these visions described the Pope and the RCC alone is reformation theology which was designed to fit the reformers' day and is not an accurate rendering of the prophetic scriptures.




Gideon7620 said,

For we are told in II Thes.,

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,
The rapture of dead and living, our gathering together unto him same event as I Thes


2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Do not be confused by a false letter, false spirit, or false word, as if it came from us, it did not. The day is at hand.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
There must first be a great rebellion, or falling away, an apostasy from traditional order, and the antichrist must be revealed.


2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
He must oppose and exalt himself above all that is called God or that is worshipped, the Jewish Temple must be rebuilt, and the abomination that makes desolate must occur, first, the great tribulation must occur.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

Paul reminds him, he told them of this before, he even depicts a portion of it in his first letter to the Church of Thessalonica.
And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
Pretribers claim this is the Holy Spirit leaving earth with the church. There are two problems with that: the Holy Spirit can never leave earth, even if it did, it would be impossible for people to be saved without his presence as he must be present. In the Great Tribulation time there will be more people saved than ever in history. How can this be if the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, The one to guide us in all truth is gone? It is impossible. At the same time this is there claim or one of them to pretribulationalism and it also is their audiles heal.

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.


2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


2Th 2:9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
Wait a minute, they say Jesus came in verses 6 and 7, but here Paul tells us no, he will not come until Satan does his horrific work. Even Him, whos coming is after the working of Satan, His coming is after the working of Satan, not before. This verse 6, 7 they try to establish as a second coming. The church age ends they. Claim. But wait a minute, Jesus said his resurrection made the believer a Jew also and that circumcision was of the heart and not flesh. Then they, pretribers say Christ comes again in verse nine after the workings of Satan. When the bible is taken in context and you do not add something imaginary to it, you discover there is and can only be one second coming. Therefore, there is no first, second, secret, invisible coming of Christ. Christ second coming will be loud, powerful, extremely brilliant as the sun, parocia, and there certainly will not be anything secret about it; as in first Thessalonians, it is said the 7th, trumpet sound will be so loud it will wake the dead to everlasting life, those that are alive and remain will be caught up into the clouds of Christ brilliant parocia. There is nothing secret, hidden, or disguised about this event as we see it in I or II Thessalonians. .


2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
Those that love not the truth shall perish; that is why it is very important to know what you believe and why, especially with this matter.


2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
Guess what, God will send you strong delusion, and you will believe a lie if you currently are a pretriber and are unsaved, and you are here when Satan appears. Now do not get me wrong, I believe even if you are a pretriber and you are saved, that if Satan does appear, he will not be able to deceive you. The Spirit of Truth, Holy Spirit works in the saved and he will lead you to all truth, even if what you think you believe to be truth is not truth, HS can change that in an instant. If your life cycle and time allows you to be here as an unsaved person that thought you were Christian, You will believe his lies. Evidently, the inference is possibly such were never Christians. Oh they had bus routes and tried to preach God's word. They even tithed and did many other works. God will not allow true believers to be vulnerable to this deception
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. He will only allow the self righteous glory hounds of our churches to fall prey to Satan's deception.

Keep in mind this is all being done to edify the body of Christ. For too long, we have aloud corrupt American politics, lost ministers, and a sinful culture to lead us in the wrong directions. Some worship an evil government that has misconstrued our constitution to the point of uselessness. Many follow preachers, especially in large churches, that have misled flocks to hell with false doctrines, corrupt practices, and a wicked beliefs system. These preachers live in ivory towers and even now can not imagine what it is to pay $4.00 per gallon for gas. The common every day person knows, but these pretiber preachers, especially large church preachers have not the faintest ideal. They are merely political pawns used by extreme right wing politicians to mass up votes for them. I have learned a lot about American Politics, economics, and religion in the past 10 years, especially in the past 3 or so. It is a vicious cycle and frankly it does not matter who gets in office. Decision are being decided in the back somewhere/ now do not get me wrong. I voted and I voted for Ron Paul. At least he tells the truth and understands what is going on. Will he win, no, not even if he does win.

We are living in the final years before the coming of Christ. We will see tribulation, no doubt in my mind. Christ will not come to save anyone from the wrath of the antichrist, at least not yet, no doubt in my mind. Some will be deceived and follow the antichrist, because he will come in peaceably, as an angel of light. Satan’s ministers transform themselves into ministers of light, and unless you know some bible they will deceive you, even a pastor or should I say wolf in a local church can bring great deception, corruption, and destruction to lives in a local church congregation. I have seen it over and over again in right wing, independent, fundamentalist, Baptist churches. There is not anyone farther from the truth than many of these. Do not get me wrong. I am Baptist, but I am shameful to say that and say it with hesitation. I have seen the lives these so called cult leaders have wrecked.

Well anyways, I will show that mountain equals nation or empire if you would. Then I will move on to the second coming, The Blessed Hope in which we will cover in quite a bit of detail. For those of you interested, I suggest you read all the accounts of the second coming in the Gospels, and also in I, and II Thessalonians. It will make it easier to understand and you will be able to see this pretrib, wishful thinking fantasy is just that, a fantasy of false doctrine. If I can help one person learn this true ancient doctrine, it will be well worth the efforts put forth. Pretribulationalism recently came on the scenes in the 1800's, Postribulationalism goes way back to the scriptures and even unto all of the early church fathers. Would you rather believe a bunch of disgruntled American pastors from the 1800's that obviously stretch the truth or our fathers, like Justin Martyr from the second century, who died for the cause of Christ,btw, They do not have to stretch the truth in the bible and obviously they did not fear dying for Christ. The truth is plainly there. It does not require a pastor or pope to teach you. You can learn it as a Christian for yourself, by laterally interpreting it. The pretribers claim to be verbal plenary, literalist in there interpretations, but you will discover quickly, there is nothing literal about their interpretations. They are hogwash interpretations that lack common sense and common decency. I believe these false doctrines were created by a satanic conspiracy and most likely by unsaved men

This post has been edited by Gideon7620: Today, 10:04 AM



Well anyways, I will show that mountain equals nation or empire if you would. Then I will move on to the second coming, The Blessed Hope in which we will cover in quite a bit of detail. For those of you interested, I suggest you read all the accounts of the second coming in the Gospels, and also in I, and II Thessalonians. It will make it easier to understand and you will be able to see this pretrib, wishful thinking fantasy is just that, a fantasy of false doctrine. If I can help one person learn this true ancient doctrine, it will be well worth the efforts put forth. Pretribulationalism recently came on the scenes in the 1800's, Postribulationalism goes way back to the scriptures and even unto all of the early church fathers. Would you rather believe a bunch of disgruntled American pastors from the 1800's that obviously stretch the truth or our fathers, like Justin Martyr from the second century, who died for the cause of Christ,btw, They do not have to stretch the truth in the bible and obviously they did not fear dying for Christ. The truth is plainly there. It does not require a pastor or pope to teach you. You can learn it as a Christian for yourself, by laterally interpreting it. The pretribers claim to be verbal plenary, literalist in there interpretations, but you will discover quickly, there is nothing literal about their interpretations. They are hogwash interpretations that lack common scenes and common decency. I believe these false doctrines were created by a satanic conspiracy and most likely by unsaved men

It is so incredibly unbelievable that Justin Martyr, in spite of being martyred knew the tribulation was not upon the church yet.

Well anyways, I will show that mountain equals nation or empire if you would. Then I will move on to the second coming, The Blessed Hope in which we will cover in quite a bit of detail. For those of you interested, I suggest you read all the accounts of the second coming in the Gospels, and also in I, and II Thessalonians. It will make it easier to understand and you will be able to see this pretrib, wishful thinking fantasy is just that, a fantasy of false doctrine. If I can help one person learn this true ancient doctrine, it will be well worth the efforts put forth. Pretribulationalism recently came on the scenes in the 1800's, Postribulationalism goes way back to the scriptures and even unto all of the early church fathers. Would you rather believe a bunch of disgruntled American pastors from the 1800's that obviously stretch the truth or our fathers, like Justin Martyr from the second century, who died for the cause of Christ,btw, They do not have to stretch the truth in the bible and obviously they did not fear dying for Christ. The truth is plainly there. It does not require a pastor or pope to teach you. You can learn it as a Christian for yourself, by laterally interpreting it. The pretribers claim to be verbal plenary, literalist in there interpretations, but you will discover quickly, there is nothing literal about their interpretations. They are hogwash interpretations that lack common scenes and common decency. I believe these false doctrines were created by a satanic conspiracy and most likely by unsaved men [/b][/u]

It is so incredibly unbelievable that Justin Martyr, in spite of being martyred knew the tribulation was not upon the church yet. What would you believe if you were being murdered for your faith? I think most would have the tendency ot believing the antichrist was here living, breathing, and persecuting the saints. Yet, Justin Martyr did not see it that way. This is a perfect dipiction of his faith. to realize that the focal point of persecution had not arrived yet, the antichrist. What an extraordinarily powerful testimony, that can not be denied by the most erudite theologians.


To be continued........

"They are hogwash interpretations that lack common scenes and common decency. I believe these false doctrines were created by a satanic conspiracy and most likely by unsaved men"

A similar utterance in the Islamic religion is that "Jews" are the descendents of monkey's and pig's. Is this where you got your ideas? I would say so. Satan is a clever guy.

Babylon, the Nation, A Mountain

And this whole land shall be a desolation, [and] an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.


Jer 25:12 ¶ And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished, [that] I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith the LORD, for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans, and will make it perpetual desolations.


Jer 25:13 And I will bring upon that land all my words which I have pronounced against it, [even] all that is written in this book, which Jeremiah hath prophesied against all the nations.


Jer 25:14 For many nations and great kings shall serve themselves of them also: and I will recompense them according to their deeds, and according to the works of their own hands.


Jer 25:15 ¶ For thus saith the LORD God of Israel unto me; Take the wine cup of this fury at my hand, and cause all the nations, to whom I send thee, to drink it.


Jer 25:16 And they shall drink, and be moved, and be mad, because of the sword that I will send among them.

Rice a Roni is the San Francisco treat. Now, I like Rice a Roni but is it Satanic?

Depends upon where you buy it

Gideon7620 said,

No, it was Adolph Hitler that held to the belief of Aryanism, the belief that white people are more evolved than all other races. This supported evolution to the enth degree. He even believed that a blond haired, blue eyed person was the most superior. Hitler committed atrocities against the Jews, most of which we know about. Some do not realize he mutilated Jews while they were alive to study their reactions and to see how their body parts seemed inferior to him, in comparison to the WASP, or White Anglo Saxon People's. I think you have an obvious misunderstanding on this subject matter. You talk as if though you believe I am Satan incarnate.


Boy Jack Van Impe, and Tim F. LaHaye have really assisted in spreading false doctrine to the masses by propagating the pretrib rapture in extraordinary numbers. Tim LaHaye with his Left Behind fiction tale, and Jack Van Impe with his weekly News Cast Session have misled the masses. Do not get me wrong, I like to watch JVI, as they show many world events you do not see on US TV. However, I do not care to hear him spread the false pretrib doctrine to the great masses via TV network, when he makes statements as Jesus is coming, he could come anyday, not true, not yet. There is too much that must be fulfilled before we can say Jesus can come anyday. Tim LaHaye has sold over 60,000,000 Left Behind books to "Christians". I can assure you most of these Christians have never studied the doctrine themselves. Tim LaHaye has a very fat pocket book as a result also. Christ told us to follow the narrow path, because the broad path leads to destruction. I guess we will have to see which doctrine is right. Unfortunately for pretribers, if you were passsing this doctrine around like candy and are unsaved when the antichrst appears, you will no longer be able to get saved, if you were unsaved to begin with. Keep in mind, there are unsaved so called Christians and pastors. Read II Peter Chapter 2 and the Book of Jude if you do not believe me. God will send you strong delusion, that you should believe a lie. That they might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. Think about it for a while, Jesus does not come as you expect him too. The antichrist appears, what are you going to do? Maybe you will believe he is Jesus. If Jesus comes now as you suggest, it will not affect me. I am saved and I know it, that is why I know he can not come yet. Wow that is strong my friends. I strongly believe, if one has studied the doctrine and does not see the postrib rapture as truth, he or she may not be saved. Most likely Jack Vam Impe preaches it because he has been taught it, and more importantly, you can not as a TV evangelist claim any other doctrine. Are you kidding me? They, the prominent pastors of our day will shun him to death; he will be shunned out of business because of peoples' lack of knowledge and ignorance in the subject matter. Naturally, since most Christians do not know any better, they follow the flow of things. Very few think outside the box. Once again, the Protestant movement is caught up in Paradosis, tradition and church wealth, Just as the Roman Catholic church is amd has been for centuries. What makes fundamentalist any differenet. Actually, I believe most of them are more carnel than the supposed apostate RC. I as a Baptist am shameful of our disgraced movement of so called Fundamentalism.

If we read II Peter Chapter 2 we see the affects of the fundametalist movement. It's corrupt practices can be seen in the teachings of Christ also where he talks about the wolves in sheep's clothing. Do not misunderstand me, I am not saying that all pastors and teachers are wolves, but it is obvious many times which are. The ones that tell you in their news letters and broadcast, send us more money, do not forget us in your will are usually wolves. Watch out for the pastor that clings to dying widows and widowers; they usually do so to devour the estates of the dying. These false preaches break up families and tear up homes for moneys sake. They are self willed and presumptuous.

Do not get me wrong, I love JVI and Roxella. They have been an inspiration to me for years. I pray for them and have much respect for them. I only wish they would study this very deeply and come to knowledge of the truth. I get fearful and frustrated for someone that has that kind of charisma and knowledge and yet shuns truth. I will pray that Mr. Impe sees the truth in God’s word someday, renounces his error, affects many souls for the cause of Christ. Mark my Word the Devil and his mischievous deeds will precede the coming of Christ, and all of you will be here to see it. This generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled.

Back to the subject matter, please no more rabbit trails. Now I feel l know what Grace Slick meant when talking about chasing rabbits.

Read the Koran

Satan sings the same song where ever he goes

Don't ever follow the flow

Gideon7620 said,

I have and find it to be corrupt, but remember the Lord's admonishion. To go with the flow is foolish, especially if the flow is broad and one can prove it wrong.

Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.


Mat 7:13 ¶ Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:


Mat 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.


Mat 7:15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.


Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?


Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.


Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.


Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.


Mat 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.


Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?


Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


Mat 7:24 ¶ Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:


Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.


Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:


Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.


Mat 7:28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:


Mat 7:29 For he taught them as [one] having authority, and not as the scribes.



Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

You side track the issue. My point is that your views hold anti-semitic and racial predjuice and these very values are satanically induced. This feature of your presentation cuts you off and reveals a mix of truth and falsehood. Your story is riddled with speculation and unscriptual values.

Once again, I agree with you Stephen.

Gideon said,

Wo, I am assuming you are talking to me seeing you continue to attack these factual doctrines. Now you are stating that I am racist towards Jews. Let it be known, how can I be racist torards Jews when I am one myself, a Saphardic Jew, from the tribe of Levi, as a matter of fact. There is no value, only absolute. That is the problem with modern day American Christianity it thrives on weak variable values rather than on non variable absolutes. I am absolutely positive your view is wrong and corrupted as you consider it a value. I am absolutely confident God speaks truth in His word and man has a tendency of corrupting these absolutes and they come up with fairy tales like the pretrib rapture, and title them as values. There is no value to the word of God it is absolute purity, truth, power, forever enduring, never changing, and it has no variance as you suggest. I find your race card offensive, a cheap shot, and a desperate radical tactic.

I suggest to readers they read your past 7 post or so, and that you quit gibbering and putting on meaningless post, as to hide your ridiculous past few statements. Please readers, read his statement. He calls me a racist, incinuates that I am a muslim of some sorts, when in fact I am the very opposite. I am just not as naive as he, I know what is going on in America, I know what is going on in this world we live in and Stephen, sorry to pop your bubble, but America is the Whore we read about in Revelation. Every vial thing you can imagine comes out of America, even racism.
So

Gideon, have you come here to lay snares on us, in order to satisfy your deep desire to do so?
Come out of your deception.

America bashing ...

you say "America slaughtered the Indians".

Certain Americans [having left Europe a few decades earlier they were now labeled "Americans"] killed Indians.
And various Indian tribes killed other Indians. And Zulus killed other Africans. And Hutus killed Tutsis. And Croats killed Serbs.
And Russians killed Checkistanis [or somebody]. And Turks killed Armenians. And Turks kill Kurds. And Normans killed Celts. And Germans killed French.
And English killed real Indians from India. And Chinese killed Tibetans. And Chaing Kai Shek and his army killed Tiwanese.
And Moslems kill Jews. And Jews kills Moslems. And SriLankans kill Tamils.

Special award to who knows who sang the following:

The whole world is festering with unhappy souls,
the French hate the Germans, the Germans hate the Poles.

Italians hate Yugoslavs, S.Africans hate the Dutch,
and I don't like anyone very much !

BTW- A lot of the world would love to be like common Americans. Like have clean running water and sewage disposal and electricity and paved roads and garbage pick up and a car in which to go to the local shopping mall and the freedom to worship any way you want to without some demented "Mulla" calling for your murder.

Truth bounces off the heads of Great Whore servants the way cannon balls bounced off the sides of "old Ironsides"

Gideon said,

Gideon7620 said,

Side track, what side track? You seem to be the accomplice here, not me as you have desperately attempted to do so on many occasions, recently. So here you go, Woe, I am assuming you are talking to me seeing you continue to attack these factual doctrines. Now you are stating that I am racist towards Jews. A Question must be asked. How can I be racist towards Jews when I am one myself, a Sephardic Jew, from the tribe of Levi, as a matter of fact? There is no value as you suggest, only absolute. That is the problem with modern day American Christianity it thrives on weak variable values rather than on non variable absolutes. I am absolutely positive your view is wrong and corrupted as you consider it a value. I am absolutely confident God speaks truth in His word and man has a tendency of corrupting these absolutes and they come up with fairy tales as the pretrib rapture, and title them as values. There is no value to the word of God it is absolute purity, truth, power, forever enduring, never changing, and it has no variance as you suggest. I find your race card to be offensive, a cheap shot, and a desperate radical tactic.

I suggest to readers they read your past 7 post or so and that you quit gibbering and putting on meaningless posts, as to hide your ridiculous past few statements in an obvious, desperate attempt at burying the truth in God's word, through your foolishness. Can you not just be quiet for a while and listen? Maybe that is impossible for you; that concern me. Please readers, read his statements. He calls me a racist, insinuates that I am a Muslim of some sorts, when in fact I am the very opposite. I am just not as naive as he, I know what is going on in America, I know what is going on in this world we live in; and Stephen, and sorry to pop your bubble, but America is the Whore we read about in Revelation.

Every vial thing you can imagine comes out of America, even racism. Oh I bet you have never had parking blocks thrown through your business window by your local KKK fire department, just because you caught their firemen robbing you, by means of paying a reward to have someone come forward. Have you? I suppose you have never had a cross burned in your yard or feases spread all over your business storefront, because you got them caught. Have you? You have never been face with any racial issue in America, because most likely you are a WASP. Well my family and I have had these things happen to us, by a local, KKK, fire department in Shelby, Indiana. Do you care to hear the horrific stoies of how Lake County Police let the perpetrators go, because they were inbread firemen, of course not. Sounds crazy to you, but it is true. Do not tell me about racism, you do not know what racism is. I do and I understand how they work, how they are organize and what they are up to. Do you. Believe me racism does not sleep in America, it only lies dormant until the time is ripe. We have about 20 filed police reports some of them contianing winesses, with no results from America, the land of the slaves and cowards

So maybe it is you that is antichrist, anti-Semitic, and definitely pro American, and pro follow the stupid, corrupt, hell bound leaders that have misguided us for years. I simply refuse to allow them to misguide me any longer. Yup, I am sticking to God's Word like glue. Are you?

Do not tell me, just because that antichrist, Bush is in Israel trying to form a peace treaty that America the whore loves Israel? Wake up, smell the coffee. Do not be gullible. Christ tells us that the antichrist would make a treaty in Daniel and that he would break it in the middle of the weak. Now, personally, I do not believe Bush is the antichrist, but rather a want to be one. He loves power and thinks he is God's gift to the world as does Dick Chaney. Whether you want to admit it or not Bush is a member of Skull and Bones, a Natzi, high level masonic group that came from Germany to Havard University. They pick out 15 men a year to join and it is Satanically inspired. These men are inbread, made men. The antichrist is going to be far more cunning than that. These guys are armatures compared to him. He will come in peaceably as a man of God, and then he will get really evil and violent in the middle of the weak. America is ready and very near ripe for this personality as we swing more to the right wing. Guess what, he is going to slaughter hundreds of millions of Jews and Christians alike. I guess that means Jesus is not coming anytime soon to take us away from the wrath of Satan; therefore, we will be here to see it.

You many be Jewish, but you hold anti-semitic theology. Strange indeed. Now I really wonder about you even more. Are you Messianic, Orthodox, or secular .... or something else even more mysterious.

Easy to list sinful actions of Americans and sleazy aspects of American culture.

Just as easy to list sinful actions and sleazy aspects of the Rest Of the Worlds nations and cultures.

"all have sinned" No temporal nation serves Jesus Christ. Satan is the "god of this world".

Compare America to heaven/perfection, America falls short. So does the rest of the world.

Compare America to the rest of the world, America has no reason for shame.

The only way America looks worse than much of the world, is due to the "more given more expected" principle.

Americans have been and are given so much more easy and constant access to the truth of Jesus Christ than much of the world.

America as a whole has degenerated and corrupted. Becomeing more like most of the rest of the world has been all along.

But ONLY the Vatican perfectly ,uniquely ,visably and verifiably fulfills the Revelation prophetic description of the "Great Whore".

In a city of "seven hills". And yes, as the Rev states, the hills ALSO refer to kings.

The Great Whore and final supreme "beast" are connected [Rev 17].

Therefore correctly identifying the Great Whore is a key to correctly identifying the final "beast".

Those who adamently remains decieved regarding the "Great Whore" will probably also be decieved regarding the "beast"s and the "marking"
and will probably end up taking the "mark" and therefore end up in the lake of fire. Forever and forever.

Gideon7620 says,

Obviously you snare yourself. for truth is absolute it has no snares nor is it variable.

Matt.12
[43] When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

Stephen, let us stop feeding him, it is what he wants, for us to take the bait.

What does one do when an unclean spirit forces the door to your mind with a crobar? One hooks up the crobar to the power grid!

Gideon7620 said,

No, no the whore is a nation not a church; though the RCC shall give birth to the false prophet, most likely. The ancient mystery Babylon shall give birth to the beast, the political figure. That is very obvious in Revelation 13, 16, 17, and 18. The Vatican has no seaports, nor is it the capital of music, nor does the Vatican trade on any level of any nation, nor is it a naiton......We could go on and on. America does all this and regardless of what you may think, it is a fact, America has more murder, crimes, injustice, and corruption than any country in the world. She is doomed and those that follow her will be also. Those that cling to the American way of life and all the riches and what have you that are involved with it are going to be doomed. It is ok to be independently wealthy, but when you cling to it as a means of escape and place yourself in denial of the facts that can be dangerous.


Those that have pleasure in unrighteousness shall perish with the antichrist, for God shall send them strong delusion that they should believe a lie.

ah but i see a twist to this justice when ginger cat bashed america and the ones who are active soldiers in our armed forces you said nothing to ginger cat all you did was come down on us who wear against what she was saying ginger cat even had an america bashing thread up on this forum but no one stepped in to correct ginger cat

so why are you bashing a brethren up who says he is not a racist do you see what he cant see can you see beyond the screen you look at when you are on this forum ?


Gideon ignore justice she has caused a bit of trouble for me by stating silly things like she can tell wear a person is at by looking at the screen

welcome to this forum just put what justice says to you to the side brother i am croation my self and i know what its like to be told to your face you are a racist


god bless from damo

Gideon said,

I would not take your own statements lightly, as the bible tells us, to the Jew first and then to the Gentile. He that blesses Israel shall be blessed. He that curese Israel shall be cursed. Stephen your statement has no proof, No wording, no foundation, and is wreckless and meaningless.

Gideon said,

Its funny, the Pharisees claimed Christ and his disciples were demon possessed also, as they could not understand true doctrinal dispensations. They were caught up in their lavish world of materialism. That is all they knew and could chew on. That is why you here many people on this bulletin board making meager comments about the physical, and material, blessings they receive in America. When they are taken away, they will cry like stiff necked, little Hebrews going through the Exodus. Unfortunately that is all they have and they are so blinded, they can not see how this has a direct correlation and connection to Babylon, she is a people that have glorified themselves in her filthy wealth resulting from extortions. She is an ideology, a way of life, a materialistic concept that those that are part of, can not let go, not even in words. Such Woods reflect weak character. They all prove unwillingness and the inability to free ones self form the materialistic setting in America.

Do not misunderstand me, I have very nice home, very nice clothing and live in a good neighborhood. I certainly appreciate it and have worked very hard for it. However for me to pay worship to my 60" 1080 P Sony TV screen, any other material thing, or to worship America is blasphemous. We have what we have because God gave us these material things. The Lord giveth and taketh away. I have discovered that those that pay worship to the American way of life have a hard time letting go of anything material when hard times arrive... When judgment comes in America and against the American way of life these will be in complete chaos, and discomfort. If you rely on materialism and not on God solely, when the material is gone, and it will be, you will have nothing. It will be consumed by the fire of God. send them strong delusion that they should believe a lie.

Some dogs bark at the wind

And neither do they always tell the truth

Gideon7620 said,



Thank you for the kind comments Damo 7,

I am glad there are a few people here that have a working brain, unlike some of these mindless zombies, here. Do you understand that Babylon is an attitude, a way of life, a prideful heart attitude, a culture of mindless zombies, a following of people that worship America and the American way of life, a movements of a culture that can not understand right from wrong when facts are presented to them? You could show them a perfect depiction of modern day Babylon and they will still deny it. These can be told by their spiritual leaders that the sky is yellow and they would believe it. They are the ones that will not respond to the call of God, when the Holy Spirit will prompt His own to come out of her, Ancient Mystery Babylon. It eats them up, that some are able, as true believing Christians, to see it plainly, and they are completely oblivious to the facts; though they are presently in front of them.

Interesting thought..

hay Gideon


i hear you this is just not over america but we are also noticing this in australia and we have been praying over our country a long time ago us christians hear use to look to america as god was moving but from what i am hearing know Gideon to much of the world has snuck in muslims are given more rights than the christians in america you can no longer witness i read sevral cases wear christians have been taken to court but the ones that are being called out are also praying

i am in cotact with sevral christians we no longer look to america but focus on what god is doing in australia i am sorry that you get harrased Gideon as i said just ignore what is said to you you know who god is you know what he has done in your life

the particular person that has been giving you a hard time did this with me to the point wear i began to question her not one honest responce did i get from her


the lord shook me and has called me out and is calling others hear to him self hear wear i live we get together and pray over our churches we pray over our city and over our polaticans next week i am going to attend a worship service at parliment house we have christian polaticans and they put in prayer requests a message is going to be given then is just going to be wear we worship god together


this is what i am observing from my side of the world



god bless from damo

Sorry we got side tracked,

"Your mother shall be sore confounded;

she that bare you shall be ashamed:

BEHOLD, THE HINDER-MOST OF THE NATIONS

shall be a wilderness, a dry land, and a desert."


Here we see a direct connection to BABYLON THE GREAT, which is also called THE DAUGHTER OF BABYLON. Jeremiah refers to her as THE HINDERMOST OF THE NATIONS. As he saw prophetic fulfillment through the annals of time,
- The HINDERMOST from him would be the Modern day Babylon. This is the final BABYLON TO RISE during and before the tribulation. The last and the YOUNGEST OF ALL THE GREAT NATIONS AT THE END TIME is what are being interpreted here. Comparing her to other nations during the final years, she will be the youngest and most powerful nation the world has ever known. No nation can compare to America's power. Currently, her military and technical advantages are far superior to any nation. America fits that description perfectly.


"For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans (New Babylon),

THAT BITTER AND HASTY NATION, America

BABYLON THE GREAT IS A NATION. We would not need any other reference to prove it, because ONE DIRECT REFERENCE IS ENOUGH! For all those dobting Toms, there are many more. Habakkuk is a key prophet in identification of BABYLON THE GREAT. For some strange reason he is usually all together ignored by prophecy "experts".


which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwellingplaces,
that are not their's sea to shining sea

(Habakkuk 1:6)".

"And BABYLON, THE GLORY OF KINGDOMS,

the beauty of the Chaldee's excellency,

shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah

(Isaiah 13:19)."

One important thing to note is the singularity of Babylon. It is called a nation, not a city, not a group of nations, but one nation. Sounds familiar, One Nation under god, it is alway described singularly, even as a kingdom, not kingdoms. Even when God discribes her as a mountain, it is used in the singular form, not mountains. There fore the Babylon we see sit on seven mountains is the dipiction of it being the seventh empire, John spoke about it in Revelation. He says five are fallen or past, one is or is presently operating and one is yet to come. With common sense we know which one was opprating in his day, The Roman Empire. The one yet to come is Babylon. For we read in revelation, the antichrist would come from the seventh. He would then form an unholy alliance with 10 kings to burn the whore, and make an eighth empire, that will be short lived. He will gather them to war against the lamb when he returns. Here it is, do not believe me. Read it carefully for yourself. The more study one puts into it, the plainer it becomes.

The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.


Rev 17:9 And here [is] the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.


Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.


Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.


Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.


Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.


Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful.


Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

Take careful notice to the diversity, t