No I consider Second Coming prophecy to be unfolding throughout the Christian Era as I demonstrated mathematically, just like First Coming prophecy did throughout that era, also demonstrated mathematically. Regarding the "Lord's hour of trial" I am not sure to what you refer.

The Lord's return, and likely some considerable unpleasantness, still await. The earthly worst of which awaits specifically whom, is open for debate, particularly employing an ethnographic view of prohecy. I try not to delve into idle speculation regarding the future. Just like prophetic mathematics the final judgments will also prove the perfection of God's Holy Word AFTER they have come to pass.I had said that the thought had occurred even to myself a time or two before I was saved.
Sadly, no. There is only one "rapture" - at the last trump - just like scripture says. They will have missed the boat and it will have been the result of their Church's false eschatological doctrine and the MacDonald/Darby "pre" tribulation rapture.

1 Chronicles 15:51-52 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

"Sadly, no. There is only one "rapture" - at the last trump - just like scripture says. They will have missed the boat and it will have been the result of their Church's false eschatological doctrine and the MacDonald/Darby "pre" tribulation rapture"

>What about a person who is a genuinely true believer who has no or very little understanding of eschatological doctrine of any sort. Will they miss the boat ?

"No I consider Second Coming prophecy to be unfolding throughout the Christian Era as I demonstrated mathematically, just like First Coming prophecy did throughout that era, also demonstrated mathematically. Regarding the "Lord's hour of trial" I am not sure to what you refer"

>I am refering to His statement in Revelation 3:10 for starters.

No "believer" with a true circumcision of the heart will miss the boat, regardless of what eschatological doctrine they did or did not buy.
The last game I am going to play with someone who has posted to threads whose posts would indicate he hasn't even read the thread is to accommodate a single verse. Nor will I follow you into idle speculation regarding future events.
Further you are asking me to squeeze an entire linear-historic view of prophecy, through the filter of your Darby doctrine, by way of a doorway of a single verse.

Maybe "The Last Trumpet" thread will help:
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=5788

"The last game I am going to play with someone who has posted to threads whose posts would indicate he hasn't even read the thread is to accommodate a single verse. Nor will I follow you into idle speculation regarding future events.
Further you are asking me to squeeze an entire linear-historic view of prophecy, through the filter of your Darby doctrine, by way of a doorway of a single verse"

>No playing. I just asked you to respond to some very significant verses of Scripture that contain time values and related subjects. You should be able to do that easily using Skolfield's point of view. I have read his website and the False Prophet. I believe he has some very good explanations, but I don't agree with his time values. We all have our positional points of view. I have read your threads by the way.

And did. http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=7586 http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=7614
What you have choosen to do is take the mathematical problems that demonstrate, and cross-confirm fulfilled prophecy as partially previewed through the 7 problems provided in this link http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=7586 , which no reasonable person could chalk up as an accident, and trade them for an inverted pyramid of entirely unprovable Darby style presumption, that moves virtually the entire book of Revelation into some indefinite period into the future, by ignoring sound principles of hermeneutics. Then you go on to ask questions about the future, from the top of this messy heap, like prophecy was intended to entertain us as some sort of personal ouija board, to conjure up fables about the future. Up to you. If you had, I can't imagine why you would be asking for me to explain math problems the explainations of which already lie in the 2 related threads. You pretty well took me to my limit. Sorry.

See why l'm glad l'm not good with numbers... God will provide!

MH,

"If you had, I can't imagine why you would be asking for me to explain math problems the explainations of which already lie in the 2 related threads. You pretty well took me to my limit. Sorry"

>you can be assured that I did and I do think you know why I asked for clarafication related to the Scriptures given. I can see that you have reached your own limitations.

HI,

I was aware for the last 2 days that there were no cars on the road.
The freeway is usually packed and bumper to bumper...as I drove
home today...I thought ...the mid tribs must have made their exit..
the pre tribs should have already departed...and there we are...a
few less cars on the road...then I realized school is about to start
and everyone is at the mall...post tribs are reprieved...

Repent, the Kingdom of God is at hand.

Blessings,
Signet

http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=5788

But then, Peter, Andrew; James, John, Philip, Bartholomew, Thomas and Matthew, James, Thaddaeus, Simon, And Paul whom Christ chose on the road to damascus to replace Judas, : All died as part of the body of Christ. All things of the flesh are temporal. Until the Lord returns and raises those who are worthy back to "life eternal".
Not long after the two witnesses of the Lord come back up off of the ground and ascend up into heaven alive.

Did Jesus know who he was before he started?

Joh 2:3 And when the wine failed, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.
Joh 2:4 And Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

I'm sure they have an inclination as to what's going to happen, lol.

The Lord has existed from the beginning and has always known who He is. The worlds were created through Him and by Him.

My opinion is that God will give (or has already given) signs of increasing clarity and frequency to the Two Witnesses as to their calling and identity. I don't think they will be called in the same way Moses was (as though "out of the blue") - I think they will have a very strong inkling prior to the beginning of their ministry that that will indeed be their ministry, and I think this inkling will have grown over time.

This is not as hard to understand as it may seem. The keys are the two candle sticks, they have always been there even before Moses and Elijah. Though Elijah has not returned, yet Jesus said he did in the spirit of John the baptist. Yet he must come again, but as John, he will not be Elijah, just another from the presence of God representing one of the candlesticks. The GIfts of Moses and Elijal all came from the presence of a Holy God. God always will have witnesses. Someone should be able to figure this out. The two witnesses are not Moses and Elijah, but as Moses and Elijah represent the two olive branches, or two candlesticks before the GOD of Heaven.

Someone care to elaborate.

The correct wording is Lampstand. The Two prophets in revelation are described as:
THE TWO BRANCHES,
THE TWO WITNESSES,
THE TWO PROPHETS,
THE TWO LAMPSTANDS,
THE TWO WATCHMEN, AND
THE TWO OLIVE TREES.
The Bible refers to them by all of these descriptions.

The word ‘lampstand’ is used in the NIV, and ‘candlestick’ in the KJV. Strong’s Concordance renders the word from the Greek ‘luchnia’ (3087) the seven golden lampstands or candlesticks are a lesser light. --Ex 25:31 “Make a lampstand of pure gold and hammer it out, base and shaft; its flower-like cups, buds and blossoms shall be of one piece with it.” [V37] “Then make its seven lamps and set them up on it so that they light the space in front of it.”

The Lampstand was used to light up the inside of the temple or tabernacle. The lamps were fueled with pure olive oil. They were kept burning from evening till morning. The two prophets are described as two lampstands. According to Ezekiel the two Olive trees provide the nourishing sap for the lamps to keep burning. We also understand that Revelation says that these lamps are the seven churches. These lamps will feed from these two prophets’ nourishing sap provided at the proper time.

These two prophets are also referred to as two Olive branches. These grow from a root, an olive tree root, this root is the Christ. These two branches is NOT speaking of two branches of the Christian Religion, but two branches of the 12 tribes of Israel - the northern and southern kingdoms that branched in the days of Solomon's son. The Gentile Christians who follow the requirements of God are grafted into this olive tree. And they too partake of the nourishing sap.

The Seven Churches mentioned above are part of group of saints who are part of the 144,000, and they are predominantly Jews. All tribes are mentioned, except the Tribe of Dan. There is no mention of it in Revelation, all others are composed of 12,000.