Full Version: The Two Witnesses
Oh my Lord God, Appy, your right...
QUOTE(shy1 @ Oct 27 2005, 09:43 AM)
With everything happening the way it is, they HAVE to be here now. There just can't be that many more years left until their mission starts that they could still not be born yet.
What I've been thinking about is how everybody hates them. Assume for just a minute that all the Christians are here through the tribulation (please just assume it--there are other threads for arguing the contrary--rapture threads). Would even the Christians who are here hate them? Would there be something about their message that we would find surprising or upsetting or new, considering how we have been taught to believe? I'm just wondering. Or is the hatred toward them just because the rest of the world is so wicked and doesn't want to hear that they need to repent and come to the Lord? I can't help but wonder if we would be surprised in some way by these witnesses, if we would say, "Oh, they can't be the REAL two witnesses, because I'm expecting something different" (assuming we were here, of course!).
Just something I've been wondering about a little bit lately!
Debbie
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I wonder just how close to the truth your questions are?
It is amazing what expectation, assuming and dogma can do to the truth.
QUOTE(FieryIce @ Nov 13 2005, 08:37 PM)
QUOTE(shy1 @ Oct 27 2005, 09:43 AM)
With everything happening the way it is, they HAVE to be here now. There just can't be that many more years left until their mission starts that they could still not be born yet.
What I've been thinking about is how everybody hates them. Assume for just a minute that all the Christians are here through the tribulation (please just assume it--there are other threads for arguing the contrary--rapture threads). Would even the Christians who are here hate them? Would there be something about their message that we would find surprising or upsetting or new, considering how we have been taught to believe? I'm just wondering. Or is the hatred toward them just because the rest of the world is so wicked and doesn't want to hear that they need to repent and come to the Lord? I can't help but wonder if we would be surprised in some way by these witnesses, if we would say, "Oh, they can't be the REAL two witnesses, because I'm expecting something different" (assuming we were here, of course!).
Just something I've been wondering about a little bit lately!
Debbie
[right][snapback]19832[/snapback][/right]
I wonder just how close to the truth your questions are?
It is amazing what expectation, assuming and dogma can do to the truth.
[right][snapback]22770[/snapback][/right]
Yahoo--a conversation! Welcome to the discussion, and please, elaborate! I'd LOVE to hear your thoughts, whatever they may be! This is a topic that there seem to be so many opinions on, and it all differs depending on your views on whether the witnesses are two actual people, and whether the believers will be here or be taken before the witnesses begin their work. But like I said, I'd love to hear what you have to say!
QUOTE(shy1 @ Nov 14 2005, 10:20 AM)
QUOTE(FieryIce @ Nov 13 2005, 08:37 PM)
QUOTE(shy1 @ Oct 27 2005, 09:43 AM)
With everything happening the way it is, they HAVE to be here now. There just can't be that many more years left until their mission starts that they could still not be born yet.
What I've been thinking about is how everybody hates them. Assume for just a minute that all the Christians are here through the tribulation (please just assume it--there are other threads for arguing the contrary--rapture threads). Would even the Christians who are here hate them? Would there be something about their message that we would find surprising or upsetting or new, considering how we have been taught to believe? I'm just wondering. Or is the hatred toward them just because the rest of the world is so wicked and doesn't want to hear that they need to repent and come to the Lord? I can't help but wonder if we would be surprised in some way by these witnesses, if we would say, "Oh, they can't be the REAL two witnesses, because I'm expecting something different" (assuming we were here, of course!).
Just something I've been wondering about a little bit lately!
Debbie
[right][snapback]19832[/snapback][/right]
I wonder just how close to the truth your questions are?
It is amazing what expectation, assuming and dogma can do to the truth.
[right][snapback]22770[/snapback][/right]
Yahoo--a conversation! Welcome to the discussion, and please, elaborate! I'd LOVE to hear your thoughts, whatever they may be! This is a topic that there seem to be so many opinions on, and it all differs depending on your views on whether the witnesses are two actual people, and whether the believers will be here or be taken before the witnesses begin their work. But like I said, I'd love to hear what you have to say!
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I will jump in here, I think the church will be here to see the two witnesses, I plan on being in Isreal to see them. Enoch and Elijah have never died they were translated or caught up.
I've heard others talk of the same thing. Enoch and Elijah as the two witnesses.
You know all the news channels will carry it at least some of the time. Is Armageddon going on at the same time, or at least the war that leads up to that final battle over Israel? I picture the two having to hold back some of the armies at times that come against Jerusalem. It will sure make a story that CNN couldn't resist, but I always wonder how their news anchors would comment on it. What do y'all think?
D
D
QUOTE(shy1 @ Nov 14 2005, 06:53 PM)
You know all the news channels will carry it at least some of the time. Is Armageddon going on at the same time, or at least the war that leads up to that final battle over Israel? I picture the two having to hold back some of the armies at times that come against Jerusalem. It will sure make a story that CNN couldn't resist, but I always wonder how their news anchors would comment on it. What do y'all think?
D
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Well I believe the news anchors are little chess pawns that the upper eschelon controls what to say and what not to say. Do you guys not agree with me? It is all a huge chess game and the globalists want to be queen in order to advance their king, 'THE BEAST' into a higher and more powerful level of authority. Thing is....they do it very deceptively and subconsiously. Anyone notice the movie the other night, 'Catagory 7, The End of the World'? Where they tried to make FEMA into a great and wonderful life saving organization?
PLEAZZZZZZZZE!Did you notice the line about contacting the HEAD of the EUROPEAN UNION? NO?! Well, it was there. Oh...we should really contact the head of the E.U!!!!!!!! I had to laugh my whole way through the movie because it was utterly riduculous. Mainly the part that had to do with depicting Christians in a VERY DECEPTIVE LIGHT! Thanks! How wonderful.
STUPID...............AND...............WASTE OF TIME.
Can't believe I even watched it!
QUOTE(FieryIce @ Nov 13 2005, 08:37 PM)
QUOTE(shy1 @ Oct 27 2005, 09:43 AM)
With everything happening the way it is, they HAVE to be here now. There just can't be that many more years left until their mission starts that they could still not be born yet.
What I've been thinking about is how everybody hates them. Assume for just a minute that all the Christians are here through the tribulation (please just assume it--there are other threads for arguing the contrary--rapture threads). Would even the Christians who are here hate them? Would there be something about their message that we would find surprising or upsetting or new, considering how we have been taught to believe? I'm just wondering. Or is the hatred toward them just because the rest of the world is so wicked and doesn't want to hear that they need to repent and come to the Lord? I can't help but wonder if we would be surprised in some way by these witnesses, if we would say, "Oh, they can't be the REAL two witnesses, because I'm expecting something different" (assuming we were here, of course!).
Just something I've been wondering about a little bit lately!
Debbie
[right][snapback]19832[/snapback][/right]
I wonder just how close to the truth your questions are?
It is amazing what expectation, assuming and dogma can do to the truth.
[right][snapback]22770[/snapback][/right]
I wish FieryIce would come back and discuss. Do you mean my questions are far from the truth because of expectation, assuming, and dogma, or do you suggest that they may actually be close to the truth? I'm not one who bites--I really want to hear what you think. Really! I can't tell a lot yet from your posts, so please elaborate . . .
Shy1, I was a little snarky regarding the dogma and it could have been interpreted as referring to your post but you did ask some bona fide questions. Questions that should be on a lot of peoples minds. You too recognize that dogma can get in the way of understanding sometimes.
What would the two witnesses have to say that would cause those that dwell on the earth to hate them and celebrate their deaths?
I would suggest that of those that dwell on the earth, that would have the most to lose when the King shows up, would include religion, medical, political etc. Remember Jesus condemned His leaders for making a religion out of the governing methods ordained by God.
What would the two witnesses have to say that would cause those that dwell on the earth to hate them and celebrate their deaths?
I would suggest that of those that dwell on the earth, that would have the most to lose when the King shows up, would include religion, medical, political etc. Remember Jesus condemned His leaders for making a religion out of the governing methods ordained by God.
QUOTE(FieryIce @ Nov 18 2005, 09:44 AM)
Shy1, I was a little snarky regarding the dogma and it could have been interpreted as referring to your post but you did ask some bona fide questions. Questions that should be on a lot of peoples minds. You too recognize that dogma can get in the way of understanding sometimes.
What would the two witnesses have to say that would cause those that dwell on the earth to hate them and celebrate their deaths?
I would suggest that of those that dwell on the earth, that would have the most to lose when the King shows up, would include religion, medical, political etc. Remember Jesus condemned His leaders for making a religion out of the governing methods ordained by God.
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What would the two witnesses have to say that would cause those that dwell on the earth to hate them and celebrate their deaths?
I would suggest that of those that dwell on the earth, that would have the most to lose when the King shows up, would include religion, medical, political etc. Remember Jesus condemned His leaders for making a religion out of the governing methods ordained by God.
[right][snapback]23596[/snapback][/right]
Thanks for clarifying for me. I understand what your first post was saying now. Yes, the groups you mentioned will be out of a job when Jesus returns, and His two witnesses will be a pretty concrete testimony to people that they are wrong in so many ways--lifestyle, beliefs, etc. that it's no wonder they will hate them.
I just wonder, though, whether there will be many Christians in that group or if we will have the sense to realize who those two are and make whatever adjustments we need to make to our thinking (assuming that we are here and have not been "raptured" out). Will we NEED to make adjustments--will there be anything about them and what they teach that will be surprising to us, given the way we have been taught? They will be prophets of the type that you could quote in the Bible, assuming that you could add a chapter after Revelation. They usher in the second coming of the Lord and prepare the earth for His coming, so what they will say will be what He wants them to say, and there will be no doubt about that. It won't be like Kim Clement and all these other people where we ask, "Is this a genuine prophet, or not?" They will be like Moses and Elijah, who we look at as definitely speaking and doing the will of God.
Given that, how could any Christian hate them or their message? I guess I'm answering my own question. It will just be the rest of the world that rejects them--those who don't heed their call to repent and come unto Jesus and be saved--those will hate them and reject them and be glad when they are finally killed. I'd LOVE to be a fly on the wall over in Jerusalem to watch those two in action. We get to read about the great prophets in the Bible, but imagine getting to watch TWO at once, with all the power of Moses and Elijah (who I don't think they will be, but they will be in the similitude of those two), performing miracles and crying repentance and bringing people to Christ. That will be a wonder to behold, and it just thrills me to think about it.
Do you honestly think this forum has not been infiltrated by demons?
Do you think those are all humans you are posting with?
And you wonder what would the two witnesses have to say that would cause those that dwell on the earth to hate them and celebrate their deaths?
Do you think those are all humans you are posting with?
And you wonder what would the two witnesses have to say that would cause those that dwell on the earth to hate them and celebrate their deaths?
shy1,
Alabama here. How are we going to define "the whole earth" at this point then?
Scripture says the whole earth is going to be relieved at their death and will be sending each other gifts because "these two prophets had tormentd those who live on the earth". It doesn't say just some were glad and it doesn't say that just some were tormented, unless you want to say "those on the earth" mean just a specified group of people. And I have had it intrepreted to me that way before.
It does, however, say that when the breath of life enters into them and they stand up on their feet, that terror will strike "those who saw them" and they go back to heaven "as their enemies look on".
So, everyone hears about it and is glad, but only some will see them rise again. That would be tieir enemies.
What I am wondering is what is ment by demons posting. In human form such as created bodies not of the Lord but flesh born of purely demonic creation? Or those such as where I am from that belong to covens and preformed the circle dance so that they could wed the coven master? People who are possessed by demons by choice?
Thos ones, at least the covens from California where the Warlocks are the masters of many witches and both carry demons in possession, are quite frank about what they believe in. The do not skulk and do not feel they have to. They feel not only do they have the right in America to believe as they wish but that those demons that possess them are more important than what God could give them. They do not fear their possessors and do not shrink from telling of their greatness. They are worshippers. Anything less and one would have to wonder just how important they thought their master was.
Please clarify just what type we are referring to and I would LOVE to debate this with you. I didn't go to law school with half a coven for nothing I guess.
leia
Alabama here. How are we going to define "the whole earth" at this point then?
Scripture says the whole earth is going to be relieved at their death and will be sending each other gifts because "these two prophets had tormentd those who live on the earth". It doesn't say just some were glad and it doesn't say that just some were tormented, unless you want to say "those on the earth" mean just a specified group of people. And I have had it intrepreted to me that way before.
It does, however, say that when the breath of life enters into them and they stand up on their feet, that terror will strike "those who saw them" and they go back to heaven "as their enemies look on".
So, everyone hears about it and is glad, but only some will see them rise again. That would be tieir enemies.
What I am wondering is what is ment by demons posting. In human form such as created bodies not of the Lord but flesh born of purely demonic creation? Or those such as where I am from that belong to covens and preformed the circle dance so that they could wed the coven master? People who are possessed by demons by choice?
Thos ones, at least the covens from California where the Warlocks are the masters of many witches and both carry demons in possession, are quite frank about what they believe in. The do not skulk and do not feel they have to. They feel not only do they have the right in America to believe as they wish but that those demons that possess them are more important than what God could give them. They do not fear their possessors and do not shrink from telling of their greatness. They are worshippers. Anything less and one would have to wonder just how important they thought their master was.
Please clarify just what type we are referring to and I would LOVE to debate this with you. I didn't go to law school with half a coven for nothing I guess.
leia
QUOTE(Leia @ Nov 21 2005, 10:04 AM)
shy1,
Alabama here. How are we going to define "the whole earth" at this point then?
Scripture says the whole earth is going to be relieved at their death and will be sending each other gifts because "these two prophets had tormentd those who live on the earth". It doesn't say just some were glad and it doesn't say that just some were tormented, unless you want to say "those on the earth" mean just a specified group of people. And I have had it intrepreted to me that way before.
It does, however, say that when the breath of life enters into them and they stand up on their feet, that terror will strike "those who saw them" and they go back to heaven "as their enemies look on".
So, everyone hears about it and is glad, but only some will see them rise again. That would be tieir enemies.
What I am wondering is what is ment by demons posting. In human form such as created bodies not of the Lord but flesh born of purely demonic creation? Or those such as where I am from that belong to covens and preformed the circle dance so that they could wed the coven master? People who are possessed by demons by choice?
Thos ones, at least the covens from California where the Warlocks are the masters of many witches and both carry demons in possession, are quite frank about what they believe in. The do not skulk and do not feel they have to. They feel not only do they have the right in America to believe as they wish but that those demons that possess them are more important than what God could give them. They do not fear their possessors and do not shrink from telling of their greatness. They are worshippers. Anything less and one would have to wonder just how important they thought their master was.
Please clarify just what type we are referring to and I would LOVE to debate this with you. I didn't go to law school with half a coven for nothing I guess.
leia
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Alabama here. How are we going to define "the whole earth" at this point then?
Scripture says the whole earth is going to be relieved at their death and will be sending each other gifts because "these two prophets had tormentd those who live on the earth". It doesn't say just some were glad and it doesn't say that just some were tormented, unless you want to say "those on the earth" mean just a specified group of people. And I have had it intrepreted to me that way before.
It does, however, say that when the breath of life enters into them and they stand up on their feet, that terror will strike "those who saw them" and they go back to heaven "as their enemies look on".
So, everyone hears about it and is glad, but only some will see them rise again. That would be tieir enemies.
What I am wondering is what is ment by demons posting. In human form such as created bodies not of the Lord but flesh born of purely demonic creation? Or those such as where I am from that belong to covens and preformed the circle dance so that they could wed the coven master? People who are possessed by demons by choice?
Thos ones, at least the covens from California where the Warlocks are the masters of many witches and both carry demons in possession, are quite frank about what they believe in. The do not skulk and do not feel they have to. They feel not only do they have the right in America to believe as they wish but that those demons that possess them are more important than what God could give them. They do not fear their possessors and do not shrink from telling of their greatness. They are worshippers. Anything less and one would have to wonder just how important they thought their master was.
Please clarify just what type we are referring to and I would LOVE to debate this with you. I didn't go to law school with half a coven for nothing I guess.
leia
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Leia,
That's FieryIce--NOT me! I don't think demons are posting here, and I'm WAY confused at this point!
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[/quote]
Leia,
That's FieryIce--NOT me! I don't think demons are posting here, and I'm WAY confused at this point!
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[/quote]
Sweety, I am sorry, it was my terrible ability to "cut and paste". Of course I ment that one and not you. What was it that I was talking to you about first...oh yes! The whole earth part. The rest was for FieryIce.
Sorry, shall I try to go and do that right? I am sure you would not want to claim that little item!
I was too involved in deep cover and tried to be converted by the likes of Shriners and bankers, then Warlocks and even one Middle Easter group who used to play "New York, New York" all the time to be real concerned about FieryIce. Too many CIA uncles and other cloak and dagger people to worry with any of it from either side. I am not impressed or amused with demons and the talk of them. One of the largest covens....anyway, I used to wonder if I was a geek magnet. California....it doesn't take much to be involved with the nut industry. I was only in it to try to save some of the children. Sacrafice is not dead.
But your post saying that those opposed to God's rulership in their lives and those ot watching for His return will be the ones deceived is not how I understand it. I can't tell you how Christians would be, knowing that we await the antiChrist as a deceiver and there are so many things he as to fulfill that it SHOULD point him out to us, but scripture say "the earth" will take joy at the death of the witnesses and "the earth" will give each other gifts. I used to think, maybe it just happens at a time like Christmas when we are giving gifts anyway...why would I give a gift that anyone died, even my enemy? I don't understand and can not reconcile "the earth" with doing that myself. Are we part of what "the earth" means do you think? I am at a loss.
leia
[/quote]
Leia,
That's FieryIce--NOT me! I don't think demons are posting here, and I'm WAY confused at this point!
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[/quote]
Sweety, I am sorry, it was my terrible ability to "cut and paste". Of course I ment that one and not you. What was it that I was talking to you about first...oh yes! The whole earth part. The rest was for FieryIce.
Sorry, shall I try to go and do that right? I am sure you would not want to claim that little item!
I was too involved in deep cover and tried to be converted by the likes of Shriners and bankers, then Warlocks and even one Middle Easter group who used to play "New York, New York" all the time to be real concerned about FieryIce. Too many CIA uncles and other cloak and dagger people to worry with any of it from either side. I am not impressed or amused with demons and the talk of them. One of the largest covens....anyway, I used to wonder if I was a geek magnet. California....it doesn't take much to be involved with the nut industry. I was only in it to try to save some of the children. Sacrafice is not dead.
But your post saying that those opposed to God's rulership in their lives and those ot watching for His return will be the ones deceived is not how I understand it. I can't tell you how Christians would be, knowing that we await the antiChrist as a deceiver and there are so many things he as to fulfill that it SHOULD point him out to us, but scripture say "the earth" will take joy at the death of the witnesses and "the earth" will give each other gifts. I used to think, maybe it just happens at a time like Christmas when we are giving gifts anyway...why would I give a gift that anyone died, even my enemy? I don't understand and can not reconcile "the earth" with doing that myself. Are we part of what "the earth" means do you think? I am at a loss.
leia
QUOTE(Leia @ Nov 21 2005, 10:31 AM)
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But your post saying that those opposed to God's rulership in their lives and those ot watching for His return will be the ones deceived is not how I understand it. I can't tell you how Christians would be, knowing that we await the antiChrist as a deceiver and there are so many things he as to fulfill that it SHOULD point him out to us, but scripture say "the earth" will take joy at the death of the witnesses and "the earth" will give each other gifts. I used to think, maybe it just happens at a time like Christmas when we are giving gifts anyway...why would I give a gift that anyone died, even my enemy? I don't understand and can not reconcile "the earth" with doing that myself. Are we part of what "the earth" means do you think? I am at a loss.
leia
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But your post saying that those opposed to God's rulership in their lives and those ot watching for His return will be the ones deceived is not how I understand it. I can't tell you how Christians would be, knowing that we await the antiChrist as a deceiver and there are so many things he as to fulfill that it SHOULD point him out to us, but scripture say "the earth" will take joy at the death of the witnesses and "the earth" will give each other gifts. I used to think, maybe it just happens at a time like Christmas when we are giving gifts anyway...why would I give a gift that anyone died, even my enemy? I don't understand and can not reconcile "the earth" with doing that myself. Are we part of what "the earth" means do you think? I am at a loss.
leia
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I am confused. I've asked in a few posts on this thread whether the whole earth includes the Christians on the earth at that time, and I still don't know. I believe there WILL be Christians on the earth when the two witnesses are killed, and I'd hate to think that even Christians would be glad to see them die. That's what I was asking a few pages back--is there something about them and their message that would make even Christians upset with what they have to say to the point that we would be glad to see them gone? I was hoping somebody who had studied that chapter more could explain. Maybe it means the whole earth minus the Christians. It would have to. I need to go clear my head!
QUOTE(FieryIce @ Nov 21 2005, 09:31 AM)
And you wonder what would the two witnesses have to say that would cause those that dwell on the earth to hate them and celebrate their deaths?
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No, I don't wonder why the "world" will hate them and celebrate their deaths; the world is wicked and does not want to be told to repent and come unto Christ. My question is whether the Christians on the earth at the time will also hate the two witnesses for some reason and celebrate their deaths along with the wicked. I wonder if they will be deceived about who the two are, or dislike something about their message. Who knows--maybe they will come from one religious denomination, and people will reject them for that reason. Maybe even an unpopular religious denomination--that would really make them not well received. (No, I'm not thinking about tainted Kool Aid! I'm just being off the wall from a migraine, I guess!
) I just wondered if something they have to say will be something that Christians aren't expecting to hear.
QUOTE(shy1 @ Nov 21 2005, 03:16 PM)
QUOTE(FieryIce @ Nov 21 2005, 09:31 AM)
And you wonder what would the two witnesses have to say that would cause those that dwell on the earth to hate them and celebrate their deaths?
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No, I don't wonder why the "world" will hate them and celebrate their deaths; the world is wicked and does not want to be told to repent and come unto Christ. My question is whether the Christians on the earth at the time will also hate the two witnesses for some reason and celebrate their deaths along with the wicked. I wonder if they will be deceived about who the two are, or dislike something about their message. Who knows--maybe they will come from one religious denomination, and people will reject them for that reason. Maybe even an unpopular religious denomination--that would really make them not well received. (No, I'm not thinking about tainted Kool Aid! I'm just being off the wall from a migraine, I guess!
) I just wondered if something they have to say will be something that Christians aren't expecting to hear.[right][snapback]24301[/snapback][/right]
Shy1
You are bringing up avery important point. Something is going to happen that will cause the apostosay. Math 24 in the AMP says the love of the great people will wax cold. The Word says Jesus will not return until the great falling away comes first. At this moment I am being led to the teaching of the pre trib rapture as the catalyst. Take a large group of Christians reeling from the shock of being in the tribulation and then add a strong message from the two prophets, plus the Word also says that God will deceive those who want to believe the lie of the anti-christ. All these things taken together could cause much hate.
QUOTE(rtkiii66 @ Nov 21 2005, 05:25 PM)
QUOTE(shy1 @ Nov 21 2005, 03:16 PM)
QUOTE(FieryIce @ Nov 21 2005, 09:31 AM)
And you wonder what would the two witnesses have to say that would cause those that dwell on the earth to hate them and celebrate their deaths?
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No, I don't wonder why the "world" will hate them and celebrate their deaths; the world is wicked and does not want to be told to repent and come unto Christ. My question is whether the Christians on the earth at the time will also hate the two witnesses for some reason and celebrate their deaths along with the wicked. [right][snapback]24301[/snapback][/right]
Shy1
You are bringing up avery important point. Something is going to happen that will cause the apostosay. Math 24 in the AMP says the love of the great people will wax cold. The Word says Jesus will not return until the great falling away comes first. At this moment I am being led to the teaching of the pre trib rapture as the catalyst. Take a large group of Christians reeling from the shock of being in the tribulation and then add a strong message from the two prophets, plus the Word also says that God will deceive those who want to believe the lie of the anti-christ. All these things taken together could cause much hate.
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I am in total agreement that the world is wicked and we are not to enter into it. That the world will meet its just reward is a matter of time.
When it says "entire world", I always thought that to mean affecting all people everywhere. Even Christians.
But be that as it may, I am of the opinion that there are alot of folks who believe that the tribulation begins with the seals and so they will be leaving before "the moon turns red as blood" and so forth. When that doesn't happen and the witnesses appear, there will already have been such a falling away from the disappointment, that they will have decided not to "be taken in again".
Perhaps it is merely a disfellowship of those who went to worship the Lord but really thought more of what they had left at home than they did of Him.
It is not until after the seals, after the trumpets, after the witnesses, after the dragon, and after the beast of the sea and the beast of the earth, when a voice from heaven says, "Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on." And not until after six of the seven bowls that Jesus warns again, "Behold, I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes with him, so that he may not go naked and be shamefully exposed." Revelation 16:15.
That is alot to go through up to that point, and He has not even come as a thief in the night yet.
I believe the disallusionment of those who have been told they will see no turmoil may be quite great. Perhaps this is the cause of the great falling away and their unwillingness to listen to "anyone else" who would deceive them.
Anyway, that is my best guess. That there will be alot of folks whose Christianity is shallow and will fall if they suffer. That they will suffer. And that their disappointment will cause them not to listen to the two true witnesses. And I think it will happen within the entire earth.
leia
QUOTE(Leia @ Nov 21 2005, 09:17 PM)
QUOTE(rtkiii66 @ Nov 21 2005, 05:25 PM)
QUOTE(shy1 @ Nov 21 2005, 03:16 PM)
QUOTE(FieryIce @ Nov 21 2005, 09:31 AM)
And you wonder what would the two witnesses have to say that would cause those that dwell on the earth to hate them and celebrate their deaths?
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No, I don't wonder why the "world" will hate them and celebrate their deaths; the world is wicked and does not want to be told to repent and come unto Christ. My question is whether the Christians on the earth at the time will also hate the two witnesses for some reason and celebrate their deaths along with the wicked. [right][snapback]24301[/snapback][/right]
Shy1
You are bringing up avery important point. Something is going to happen that will cause the apostosay. Math 24 in the AMP says the love of the great people will wax cold. The Word says Jesus will not return until the great falling away comes first. At this moment I am being led to the teaching of the pre trib rapture as the catalyst. Take a large group of Christians reeling from the shock of being in the tribulation and then add a strong message from the two prophets, plus the Word also says that God will deceive those who want to believe the lie of the anti-christ. All these things taken together could cause much hate.
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I am in total agreement that the world is wicked and we are not to enter into it. That the world will meet its just reward is a matter of time.
When it says "entire world", I always thought that to mean affecting all people everywhere. Even Christians.
But be that as it may, I am of the opinion that there are alot of folks who believe that the tribulation begins with the seals and so they will be leaving before "the moon turns red as blood" and so forth. When that doesn't happen and the witnesses appear, there will already have been such a falling away from the disappointment, that they will have decided not to "be taken in again".
Perhaps it is merely a disfellowship of those who went to worship the Lord but really thought more of what they had left at home than they did of Him.
It is not until after the seals, after the trumpets, after the witnesses, after the dragon, and after the beast of the sea and the beast of the earth, when a voice from heaven says, "Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on." And not until after six of the seven bowls that Jesus warns again, "Behold, I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes with him, so that he may not go naked and be shamefully exposed." Revelation 16:15.
That is alot to go through up to that point, and He has not even come as a thief in the night yet.
I believe the disallusionment of those who have been told they will see no turmoil may be quite great. Perhaps this is the cause of the great falling away and their unwillingness to listen to "anyone else" who would deceive them.
Anyway, that is my best guess. That there will be alot of folks whose Christianity is shallow and will fall if they suffer. That they will suffer. And that their disappointment will cause them not to listen to the two true witnesses. And I think it will happen within the entire earth.
leia
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Leia
How do you see this scripture in to relation to what you wrote.
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
the last trumpet is the final trumpet of Revelation.
Jesus said about the signs of the end times, He revealed in matthew 24.
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The Parable of the Fig Tree32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things , know that it[d] is near—at the doors!
See how he said when we see all these things. If we are not around to see these things then why would Jesus say to us "when you see all these things" we will see the tribulation we will see the sun darkened and the stars fall from heaven. We will be here seeing the Son of Man coming in the clouds with power and great glory.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Jesus said about the signs of the end times, He revealed in matthew 24.
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The Parable of the Fig Tree32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things , know that it[d] is near—at the doors!
See how he said when we see all these things. If we are not around to see these things then why would Jesus say to us "when you see all these things" we will see the tribulation we will see the sun darkened and the stars fall from heaven. We will be here seeing the Son of Man coming in the clouds with power and great glory.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
QUOTE(Adstar @ Nov 22 2005, 09:20 PM)
the last trumpet is the final trumpet of Revelation.
Jesus said about the signs of the end times, He revealed in matthew 24.
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The Parable of the Fig Tree32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things , know that it[d] is near—at the doors!
See how he said when we see all these things. If we are not around to see these things then why would Jesus say to us "when you see all these things" we will see the tribulation we will see the sun darkened and the stars fall from heaven. We will be here seeing the Son of Man coming in the clouds with power and great glory.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
[right][snapback]24609[/snapback][/right]
Jesus said about the signs of the end times, He revealed in matthew 24.
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The Parable of the Fig Tree32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things , know that it[d] is near—at the doors!
See how he said when we see all these things. If we are not around to see these things then why would Jesus say to us "when you see all these things" we will see the tribulation we will see the sun darkened and the stars fall from heaven. We will be here seeing the Son of Man coming in the clouds with power and great glory.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
[right][snapback]24609[/snapback][/right]
Adstar,
Sould you come on to the "Rapture" thread and read my post and respond....I would SO like to be convinced of this.....could you please, please, please?
Tell me where I am going wrong in my logic and I would be SO glad to become one with this post. I don't mind being convinced as long as it makes sense and my is proven wrong. And when it comes to something I think I know and don't really like the conclusion, I am going to welcome open debate with open arms.
Convince me I pray...
leia
QUOTE(Leia @ Nov 24 2005, 01:35 AM)
Adstar,
Sould you come on to the "Rapture" thread and read my post and respond....I would SO like to be convinced of this.....could you please, please, please?
Tell me where I am going wrong in my logic and I would be SO glad to become one with this post. I don't mind being convinced as long as it makes sense and my is proven wrong. And when it comes to something I think I know and don't really like the conclusion, I am going to welcome open debate with open arms.
Convince me I pray...
leia
[right][snapback]24696[/snapback][/right]
Sould you come on to the "Rapture" thread and read my post and respond....I would SO like to be convinced of this.....could you please, please, please?
Tell me where I am going wrong in my logic and I would be SO glad to become one with this post. I don't mind being convinced as long as it makes sense and my is proven wrong. And when it comes to something I think I know and don't really like the conclusion, I am going to welcome open debate with open arms.
Convince me I pray...
leia
[right][snapback]24696[/snapback][/right]
Hi Leia
I am not sure what post you want me to reply too this is your last post in the rapture thread. I have already posted my thoughts in the rapture thread so i am not sure what you want me to comment on.QUOTE
I have just started really talking to some of us. I was pretty sure yesterday. Today I am very sure. We were all led here. There are too many of us that are similare for it to be a coincidence.
So we will go through it together as God is directing us.
I have narroed it down to accepting Revelation as not three stories as some say or reading it backwards as some say, but that it reads straight through. This because there are too many scriptures that say "now after this".
With that premise I began fro the beginning and repeatedly asked the question: "are Christians still being spoken to as if we were still living?
Chapter by chapter.
Through the "churches" and the "scroll and the lamb. I accept us as here.
To the fifth "seal" it says "How long before you judge the inhabitants..." so I accept we are still here.
Through chapter 9 to verse four where it says "do not hurt those who have the seal of God on their forehead" I accept that we are still here.
Up to chapter 10 "where those who did not stoop to worship idols, I accept that we are still here
Through the two witnesses, through the last trumpet, through the beast of the sea and the beast of the earththrough chapter 14 which call for endureance of the saint who obey God's commandments and remai nfaithful to Jesus, I accept that we are still here.
There IS a harvest at this time. But I read on through the seven plagues and up to the sixth bowl and see the kings gathering for the great attle and scripture says "Behold I come as a thief. Blessed is her who..." and accept that He is still talking to Christians on the earth. hence no rapture yet.
That is as far as I have gotten. Up to the last "bowl".
Simplistic...childish even....but that is how I studied it.
leia
So we will go through it together as God is directing us.
I have narroed it down to accepting Revelation as not three stories as some say or reading it backwards as some say, but that it reads straight through. This because there are too many scriptures that say "now after this".
With that premise I began fro the beginning and repeatedly asked the question: "are Christians still being spoken to as if we were still living?
Chapter by chapter.
Through the "churches" and the "scroll and the lamb. I accept us as here.
To the fifth "seal" it says "How long before you judge the inhabitants..." so I accept we are still here.
Through chapter 9 to verse four where it says "do not hurt those who have the seal of God on their forehead" I accept that we are still here.
Up to chapter 10 "where those who did not stoop to worship idols, I accept that we are still here
Through the two witnesses, through the last trumpet, through the beast of the sea and the beast of the earththrough chapter 14 which call for endureance of the saint who obey God's commandments and remai nfaithful to Jesus, I accept that we are still here.
There IS a harvest at this time. But I read on through the seven plagues and up to the sixth bowl and see the kings gathering for the great attle and scripture says "Behold I come as a thief. Blessed is her who..." and accept that He is still talking to Christians on the earth. hence no rapture yet.
That is as far as I have gotten. Up to the last "bowl".
Simplistic...childish even....but that is how I studied it.
leia
If this is not the post please direct me to the one you want comments on.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
QUOTE(Adstar @ Nov 22 2005, 10:20 PM)
the last trumpet is the final trumpet of Revelation.
Jesus said about the signs of the end times, He revealed in matthew 24.
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The Parable of the Fig Tree32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things , know that it[d] is near—at the doors!
See how he said when we see all these things. If we are not around to see these things then why would Jesus say to us "when you see all these things" we will see the tribulation we will see the sun darkened and the stars fall from heaven. We will be here seeing the Son of Man coming in the clouds with power and great glory.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
[right][snapback]24609[/snapback][/right]
Jesus said about the signs of the end times, He revealed in matthew 24.
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The Parable of the Fig Tree32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things , know that it[d] is near—at the doors!
See how he said when we see all these things. If we are not around to see these things then why would Jesus say to us "when you see all these things" we will see the tribulation we will see the sun darkened and the stars fall from heaven. We will be here seeing the Son of Man coming in the clouds with power and great glory.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
[right][snapback]24609[/snapback][/right]
Adstar
Are you speaking of the 7th angel trumpet?
QUOTE(rtkiii66 @ Nov 24 2005, 03:50 PM)
QUOTE(Adstar @ Nov 22 2005, 10:20 PM)
the last trumpet is the final trumpet of Revelation.
Jesus said about the signs of the end times, He revealed in matthew 24.
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The Parable of the Fig Tree32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things , know that it[d] is near—at the doors!
See how he said when we see all these things. If we are not around to see these things then why would Jesus say to us "when you see all these things" we will see the tribulation we will see the sun darkened and the stars fall from heaven. We will be here seeing the Son of Man coming in the clouds with power and great glory.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
[right][snapback]24609[/snapback][/right]
Jesus said about the signs of the end times, He revealed in matthew 24.
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The Parable of the Fig Tree32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things , know that it[d] is near—at the doors!
See how he said when we see all these things. If we are not around to see these things then why would Jesus say to us "when you see all these things" we will see the tribulation we will see the sun darkened and the stars fall from heaven. We will be here seeing the Son of Man coming in the clouds with power and great glory.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
[right][snapback]24609[/snapback][/right]
Adstar
Are you speaking of the 7th angel trumpet?
[right][snapback]24852[/snapback][/right]
Yes:
Revelation 10
7 "but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.
When all humanity sees The Messiah returning in the clouds there will be no more mystery as to who the Messiah is. Remember scriptures says that even the jews will mourn when they see Him coming .
Revelation 1
7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
QUOTE(Adstar @ Nov 24 2005, 08:43 AM)
QUOTE(rtkiii66 @ Nov 24 2005, 03:50 PM)
QUOTE(Adstar @ Nov 22 2005, 10:20 PM)
the last trumpet is the final trumpet of Revelation.
Jesus said about the signs of the end times, He revealed in matthew 24.
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The Parable of the Fig Tree32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things , know that it[d] is near—at the doors!
See how he said when we see all these things. If we are not around to see these things then why would Jesus say to us "when you see all these things" we will see the tribulation we will see the sun darkened and the stars fall from heaven. We will be here seeing the Son of Man coming in the clouds with power and great glory.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
[right][snapback]24609[/snapback][/right]
Jesus said about the signs of the end times, He revealed in matthew 24.
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The Parable of the Fig Tree32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things , know that it[d] is near—at the doors!
See how he said when we see all these things. If we are not around to see these things then why would Jesus say to us "when you see all these things" we will see the tribulation we will see the sun darkened and the stars fall from heaven. We will be here seeing the Son of Man coming in the clouds with power and great glory.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
[right][snapback]24609[/snapback][/right]
Adstar
Are you speaking of the 7th angel trumpet?
[right][snapback]24852[/snapback][/right]
Yes:
Revelation 10
7 "but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.
When all humanity sees The Messiah returning in the clouds there will be no more mystery as to who the Messiah is. Remember scriptures says that even the jews will mourn when they see Him coming .
Revelation 1
7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
[right][snapback]24874[/snapback][/right]
This is prior to the bowls or vials of wrath?
QUOTE(rtkiii66 @ Nov 27 2005, 12:47 PM)
QUOTE(Adstar @ Nov 24 2005, 08:43 AM)
QUOTE(rtkiii66 @ Nov 24 2005, 03:50 PM)
QUOTE(Adstar @ Nov 22 2005, 10:20 PM)
the last trumpet is the final trumpet of Revelation.
Jesus said about the signs of the end times, He revealed in matthew 24.
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The Parable of the Fig Tree32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things , know that it[d] is near—at the doors!
See how he said when we see all these things. If we are not around to see these things then why would Jesus say to us "when you see all these things" we will see the tribulation we will see the sun darkened and the stars fall from heaven. We will be here seeing the Son of Man coming in the clouds with power and great glory.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
[right][snapback]24609[/snapback][/right]
Jesus said about the signs of the end times, He revealed in matthew 24.
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The Parable of the Fig Tree32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things , know that it[d] is near—at the doors!
See how he said when we see all these things. If we are not around to see these things then why would Jesus say to us "when you see all these things" we will see the tribulation we will see the sun darkened and the stars fall from heaven. We will be here seeing the Son of Man coming in the clouds with power and great glory.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
[right][snapback]24609[/snapback][/right]
Adstar
Are you speaking of the 7th angel trumpet?
[right][snapback]24852[/snapback][/right]
Yes:
Revelation 10
7 "but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.
When all humanity sees The Messiah returning in the clouds there will be no more mystery as to who the Messiah is. Remember scriptures says that even the jews will mourn when they see Him coming .
Revelation 1
7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
[right][snapback]24874[/snapback][/right]
This is prior to the bowls or vials of wrath?
[right][snapback]25285[/snapback][/right]
Yes in the book of Revelation the trumpets start in Chapter 8 and the bowles start in chapter 16
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
QUOTE(AFriend @ Dec 27 2004, 03:39 PM)
I believe: The 2 prophets are moses and elijah. Who was on the mount? Moses and Elijah. I believe they were pouring their wisdom in to Jesus on the mount. Pouring their oil in to the lamp. After all Jesus was a man with fleshly temptations. I am sure that he did not want to die on the cross but he denied himself and did the work of his father. This would take a little encouragment in my opinion. I believe that the conversation between Jesus, Moses, and Elijah was of that nature on the mount.
I believe that in the end times there will be people with the "spirit of moses and elijah" Leading and directing Gods elect out of the bondage of persecution and false teaching and doctrines. The false teachings, preachings, and doctrines are already here.
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I believe that in the end times there will be people with the "spirit of moses and elijah" Leading and directing Gods elect out of the bondage of persecution and false teaching and doctrines. The false teachings, preachings, and doctrines are already here.
[right][snapback]4006[/snapback][/right]
What always jumped out to me regarding the Transfiguration (Moses and Elijah appearing with Jesus and God making sure it's known that Jesus was the One to listen to) was in the Jewish faith, Moses was the representative of the Law...Elijah was the representative of the Prophets...But God told the disciples to get the line-up right....that Jesus was (and for us still is to be) the One with TOP priority!
What always jumped out to me regarding the Transfiguration (Moses and Elijah appearing with Jesus and God making sure it's known that Jesus was the One to listen to) was in the Jewish faith, Moses was the representative of the Law...Elijah was the representative of the Prophets...But God told the disciples to get the line-up right....that Jesus was (and for us still is to be) the One with TOP priority!
[right][snapback]26744[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Moses and Elijah dissappeared, leaving only Christ... They were the two witnesses required for the apostels to see who Christ is...
the two witnesses are ETERNAL, they are not dead men like Moses..... Zerubabel saw two who stand in front of the whole earth... those words were current for His day, at that time........ They are the only two who fulfill the words, they stand in the presence of or God. How many have considered taking EACH AND EVERY SINGLE point made, clues and try to find scriptures taht fulfill those clues rather than try to guess at them?
TWO and only TWO in the whole of CRATION qualify from the beginning of time to pour from them, the oil............
I'll give ou all a hint for now, as I belive if you do an archive search, you will find the study I posted here over a year ago....
TWO stand in front of the mercy seat, in his presence..... ONLY TWO.........
All clues are found in the old testament as to who they are........... SPECIFICALLY, not guesswork........ INCLUDING the pattern of what they were made of, (Oilve trees)
CArmine
[right][snapback]26744[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Moses and Elijah dissappeared, leaving only Christ... They were the two witnesses required for the apostels to see who Christ is...
the two witnesses are ETERNAL, they are not dead men like Moses..... Zerubabel saw two who stand in front of the whole earth... those words were current for His day, at that time........ They are the only two who fulfill the words, they stand in the presence of or God. How many have considered taking EACH AND EVERY SINGLE point made, clues and try to find scriptures taht fulfill those clues rather than try to guess at them?
TWO and only TWO in the whole of CRATION qualify from the beginning of time to pour from them, the oil............
I'll give ou all a hint for now, as I belive if you do an archive search, you will find the study I posted here over a year ago....
TWO stand in front of the mercy seat, in his presence..... ONLY TWO.........
All clues are found in the old testament as to who they are........... SPECIFICALLY, not guesswork........ INCLUDING the pattern of what they were made of, (Oilve trees)
CArmine
I found the archived article, and it promised more clues in future posts . . . .
[quote=carmineb,Dec 12 2005, 08:59 AM]
What always jumped out to me regarding the Transfiguration (Moses and Elijah appearing with Jesus and God making sure it's known that Jesus was the One to listen to) was in the Jewish faith, Moses was the representative of the Law...Elijah was the representative of the Prophets...But God told the disciples to get the line-up right....that Jesus was (and for us still is to be) the One with TOP priority!
[right][snapback]26744[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Moses and Elijah dissappeared, leaving only Christ... They were the two witnesses required for the apostels to see who Christ is...
the two witnesses are ETERNAL, they are not dead men like Moses..... Zerubabel saw two who stand in front of the whole earth... those words were current for His day, at that time........ They are the only two who fulfill the words, they stand in the presence of or God. How many have considered taking EACH AND EVERY SINGLE point made, clues and try to find scriptures taht fulfill those clues rather than try to guess at them?
TWO and only TWO in the whole of CRATION qualify from the beginning of time to pour from them, the oil............
I'll give ou all a hint for now, as I belive if you do an archive search, you will find the study I posted here over a year ago....
TWO stand in front of the mercy seat, in his presence..... ONLY TWO.........
All clues are found in the old testament as to who they are........... SPECIFICALLY, not guesswork........ INCLUDING the pattern of what they were made of, (Oilve trees)
CArmine
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[/quote]
Don't make me wait, I have three boys (7,6,3) and work a full time and a part time job. Sometimes I do not have the time to do in depth studies, be a blessing to a brother,He will bless you in return. Praise God!!!!!!
What always jumped out to me regarding the Transfiguration (Moses and Elijah appearing with Jesus and God making sure it's known that Jesus was the One to listen to) was in the Jewish faith, Moses was the representative of the Law...Elijah was the representative of the Prophets...But God told the disciples to get the line-up right....that Jesus was (and for us still is to be) the One with TOP priority!
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[/quote]
Moses and Elijah dissappeared, leaving only Christ... They were the two witnesses required for the apostels to see who Christ is...
the two witnesses are ETERNAL, they are not dead men like Moses..... Zerubabel saw two who stand in front of the whole earth... those words were current for His day, at that time........ They are the only two who fulfill the words, they stand in the presence of or God. How many have considered taking EACH AND EVERY SINGLE point made, clues and try to find scriptures taht fulfill those clues rather than try to guess at them?
TWO and only TWO in the whole of CRATION qualify from the beginning of time to pour from them, the oil............
I'll give ou all a hint for now, as I belive if you do an archive search, you will find the study I posted here over a year ago....
TWO stand in front of the mercy seat, in his presence..... ONLY TWO.........
All clues are found in the old testament as to who they are........... SPECIFICALLY, not guesswork........ INCLUDING the pattern of what they were made of, (Oilve trees)
CArmine
[right][snapback]28018[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Don't make me wait, I have three boys (7,6,3) and work a full time and a part time job. Sometimes I do not have the time to do in depth studies, be a blessing to a brother,He will bless you in return. Praise God!!!!!!
Don't make me wait, I have three boys (7,6,3) and work a full time and a part time job. Sometimes I do not have the time to do in depth studies, be a blessing to a brother,He will bless you in return. Praise God!!!!!!
[right][snapback]28112[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
I am checking some archives I might have left on line becaseu my personal archives are in my old compiuter and I am transfering them over, not all have been transfered yet....
email me at carmineb@yahoo.com so I have your email address and as soon as I get it all together, I'll send it to you. In fact, the study spans about 4 posts becasue it gets into the entie description of the witnesses and how each description is found in scripture as to who they are. I also go into why it isn't any of the other ones many think they are, also thr scripture to prove it....
There are only TWO that have EVER STOOD in the PRESENCE Of the LORD.. ONLY two. and they came before ELijah or Moses.
In fact, Moses gave witnes of them if we look very closely....
[right][snapback]28112[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
I am checking some archives I might have left on line becaseu my personal archives are in my old compiuter and I am transfering them over, not all have been transfered yet....
email me at carmineb@yahoo.com so I have your email address and as soon as I get it all together, I'll send it to you. In fact, the study spans about 4 posts becasue it gets into the entie description of the witnesses and how each description is found in scripture as to who they are. I also go into why it isn't any of the other ones many think they are, also thr scripture to prove it....
There are only TWO that have EVER STOOD in the PRESENCE Of the LORD.. ONLY two. and they came before ELijah or Moses.
In fact, Moses gave witnes of them if we look very closely....
If you find it, would you please post it here? Thanks!
QUOTE(shy1 @ Dec 15 2005, 05:46 PM)
If you find it, would you please post it here? Thanks!
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yes I will, but I want to read thru all the parts and make a concise study to present.
Carmine
QUOTE(dennis mann @ Jan 20 2005, 08:44 AM)
I'm thinking that man is triune; body, soul, and spirit.
the body is the physical flesh, bone and blood.
the soul is the ever-lasting unit of person-hood. the in-destructible spark of life and consciousness that God put in us. The soul is "me", whether I have a physical body or not. People and God(?) have souls; horses, cows, and plants have no souls. Do angels have souls? I think so. They are personalities, aren't they? Angels have bodies, names, free-will, decision-making capabilities; so, I think they have souls.
the spirit is my mind (decision-making), personality, charisma (if I have any).
*********
My point is:
I doubt that God took Elijah's spirit (mind and personality) out of him.
If I understand it right:
An un-saved person makes his own decisions (perhaps under the influence and/or control of Satan and demons).
A saved, born-again, regenerated person has a mind, and he also is indwelt by the Spirit of God. So, a Christian's mind (spirit) co-operates with the Spirit of God to make decisions. If I'm led by the Spirit, God helps me to make decisions, whether I'm aware of it or not.
***********************
I read an email from Bishop Shelby Spong today. I dis-agree very much with his beliefs. But he said one thing interesting. He said "Reverend is derived from "revered one".
Some preachers that I know, don't want to be called Reverend. God is the Revered One.
dennis manning
[right][snapback]4612[/snapback][/right]
the body is the physical flesh, bone and blood.
the soul is the ever-lasting unit of person-hood. the in-destructible spark of life and consciousness that God put in us. The soul is "me", whether I have a physical body or not. People and God(?) have souls; horses, cows, and plants have no souls. Do angels have souls? I think so. They are personalities, aren't they? Angels have bodies, names, free-will, decision-making capabilities; so, I think they have souls.
the spirit is my mind (decision-making), personality, charisma (if I have any).
*********
My point is:
I doubt that God took Elijah's spirit (mind and personality) out of him.
If I understand it right:
An un-saved person makes his own decisions (perhaps under the influence and/or control of Satan and demons).
A saved, born-again, regenerated person has a mind, and he also is indwelt by the Spirit of God. So, a Christian's mind (spirit) co-operates with the Spirit of God to make decisions. If I'm led by the Spirit, God helps me to make decisions, whether I'm aware of it or not.
***********************
I read an email from Bishop Shelby Spong today. I dis-agree very much with his beliefs. But he said one thing interesting. He said "Reverend is derived from "revered one".
Some preachers that I know, don't want to be called Reverend. God is the Revered One.
dennis manning
[right][snapback]4612[/snapback][/right]
I can say "Amen" to that. I never liked the term Reverend. Anytime anyone called me Reverend, I told them there is nothing reverend about me. I am a pastor.
justaservant
Dennis,
I always thought the soul included mind, emotions and personality.
The spirit is totally different...It's the conscience...and can't be defined.
Therefore animals do have souls. Who said they didn't?
I don't for a minute think your mind is your spirit!
They're at war with each other. Your mind is the very thing that keeps you from believing. How can it be the Spirit!
I always thought the soul included mind, emotions and personality.
The spirit is totally different...It's the conscience...and can't be defined.
Therefore animals do have souls. Who said they didn't?
I don't for a minute think your mind is your spirit!
They're at war with each other. Your mind is the very thing that keeps you from believing. How can it be the Spirit!
This is a qoute from Kobus van Rensburg:
Practice and be spiritual. Galatians 5:16-18 says that when you walk in the Spirit, you shall not fulfil the lusts of the flesh. The spirit and the flesh oppose each other and you cannot do what you want to do. You want to do well, but another force interferes and tries to overrule. Ask God to touch your mind and deliver you from fear. Do not pray for faith; get rid of fear. Do not try to train your spirit man; get your soul under control. God trains your spirit and you must get your soul in agreement with your spirit. Train your soul by renewing it with the Word. Think God's thoughts and walk God's ways. If you do it and do not get a double thought, you will not be unstable and you will get answers to your prayers.
Just think about what you would've done for God if you did not have fear? Stick to the Word, which is the first Word and you'll be a spiritual man. You will walk in faith and you'll see the results.
Practice and be spiritual. Galatians 5:16-18 says that when you walk in the Spirit, you shall not fulfil the lusts of the flesh. The spirit and the flesh oppose each other and you cannot do what you want to do. You want to do well, but another force interferes and tries to overrule. Ask God to touch your mind and deliver you from fear. Do not pray for faith; get rid of fear. Do not try to train your spirit man; get your soul under control. God trains your spirit and you must get your soul in agreement with your spirit. Train your soul by renewing it with the Word. Think God's thoughts and walk God's ways. If you do it and do not get a double thought, you will not be unstable and you will get answers to your prayers.
Just think about what you would've done for God if you did not have fear? Stick to the Word, which is the first Word and you'll be a spiritual man. You will walk in faith and you'll see the results.
QUOTE(Miki @ Dec 27 2005, 04:48 AM)
Dennis,
I always thought the soul included mind, emotions and personality.
The spirit is totally different...It's the conscience...and can't be defined.
Therefore animals do have souls. Who said they didn't?
I don't for a minute think your mind is your spirit!
They're at war with each other. Your mind is the very thing that keeps you from believing. How can it be the Spirit!
[right][snapback]30130[/snapback][/right]
I always thought the soul included mind, emotions and personality.
The spirit is totally different...It's the conscience...and can't be defined.
Therefore animals do have souls. Who said they didn't?
I don't for a minute think your mind is your spirit!
They're at war with each other. Your mind is the very thing that keeps you from believing. How can it be the Spirit!
[right][snapback]30130[/snapback][/right]
The Soul as defined by the scriptures is the breath of life from God combined with the body of dust.
The words translated to mean Spirit in the scriptures in the old languages mean the "Breath of Life from God".
For what it's worth.
QUOTE(justaservant @ Dec 26 2005, 10:33 PM)
QUOTE(dennis mann @ Jan 20 2005, 08:44 AM)
I'm thinking that man is triune; body, soul, and spirit.
the body is the physical flesh, bone and blood.
the soul is the ever-lasting unit of person-hood. the in-destructible spark of life and consciousness that God put in us. The soul is "me", whether I have a physical body or not. People and God(?) have souls; horses, cows, and plants have no souls. Do angels have souls? I think so. They are personalities, aren't they? Angels have bodies, names, free-will, decision-making capabilities; so, I think they have souls.
the spirit is my mind (decision-making), personality, charisma (if I have any).
*********
My point is:
I doubt that God took Elijah's spirit (mind and personality) out of him.
If I understand it right:
An un-saved person makes his own decisions (perhaps under the influence and/or control of Satan and demons).
A saved, born-again, regenerated person has a mind, and he also is indwelt by the Spirit of God. So, a Christian's mind (spirit) co-operates with the Spirit of God to make decisions. If I'm led by the Spirit, God helps me to make decisions, whether I'm aware of it or not.
***********************
I read an email from Bishop Shelby Spong today. I dis-agree very much with his beliefs. But he said one thing interesting. He said "Reverend is derived from "revered one".
Some preachers that I know, don't want to be called Reverend. God is the Revered One.
dennis manning
[right][snapback]4612[/snapback][/right]
the body is the physical flesh, bone and blood.
the soul is the ever-lasting unit of person-hood. the in-destructible spark of life and consciousness that God put in us. The soul is "me", whether I have a physical body or not. People and God(?) have souls; horses, cows, and plants have no souls. Do angels have souls? I think so. They are personalities, aren't they? Angels have bodies, names, free-will, decision-making capabilities; so, I think they have souls.
the spirit is my mind (decision-making), personality, charisma (if I have any).
*********
My point is:
I doubt that God took Elijah's spirit (mind and personality) out of him.
If I understand it right:
An un-saved person makes his own decisions (perhaps under the influence and/or control of Satan and demons).
A saved, born-again, regenerated person has a mind, and he also is indwelt by the Spirit of God. So, a Christian's mind (spirit) co-operates with the Spirit of God to make decisions. If I'm led by the Spirit, God helps me to make decisions, whether I'm aware of it or not.
***********************
I read an email from Bishop Shelby Spong today. I dis-agree very much with his beliefs. But he said one thing interesting. He said "Reverend is derived from "revered one".
Some preachers that I know, don't want to be called Reverend. God is the Revered One.
dennis manning
[right][snapback]4612[/snapback][/right]
I can say "Amen" to that. I never liked the term Reverend. Anytime anyone called me Reverend, I told them there is nothing reverend about me. I am a pastor.
justaservant
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actually dennis the definitions you gave for spirit and soul are reverse, spirit is the spark, soul is the mind,emotions, the chooser if you will.
you wrote:
the soul is the ever-lasting unit of person-hood. the in-destructible spark of life and consciousness that God put in us.
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. does not look in-destuctible to me.
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Maybe the mind could better be referred to as the bridge between the soul and the spirit...? It would work better.
I like these pictures of the Royal Gorge Bridge. In Texas l think?
I like these pictures of the Royal Gorge Bridge. In Texas l think?
A soul is a sole individual comprised of the spirit, or breath of life from God, and the physical body. Humans and animals are souls. The mind is what is aware of the soul and in possesion of it, and is also a part of the soul. Going from this, when we are resurrected we will most likely have every detail of our minds at the moment of death simply placed into a brand-new body.
QUOTE(Miki @ Dec 28 2005, 05:30 AM)
Maybe the mind could better be referred to as the bridge between the soul and the spirit...? It would work better.
I like these pictures of the Royal Gorge Bridge. In Texas l think?
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I like these pictures of the Royal Gorge Bridge. In Texas l think?[right][snapback]30264[/snapback][/right]
Body,soul,mind, spirit?
Body+Spirit=Soul
Mind is part of soul, aware of soul
Death is the cessation of function in the body, and the return of the spirit back to God. God remembers every aspect of your mind, right down to the molecules, and when he resurrects you he can replicate your mind perfectly, taking out the bad and adding things as He will, and give you back your spirit within a new spiritual physical body.
Mind is part of soul, aware of soul
Death is the cessation of function in the body, and the return of the spirit back to God. God remembers every aspect of your mind, right down to the molecules, and when he resurrects you he can replicate your mind perfectly, taking out the bad and adding things as He will, and give you back your spirit within a new spiritual physical body.
QUOTE(tribulation-witness @ Sep 25 2005, 10:38 PM)
The two witnesses are here now! And they will be revealed through the scroll Daniel was told to seal until the time of the end. This is also the epistle from Laodicea Paul told us to read at the end of Colossians! This final letter to the children of God Almighty will have many new prophecies in it, and as these all come to pass, the Bride of Christ will fully understand these two are the two lampstands prophesied to come in the book of Zechariah and Revelation, and this is the time of the end spoken of by the prophets of old and the Lamb Himself!
The oldest of the two is the one the Holy Spirit is writing this letter through.
This is all I can reveal at this moment in time -for the Father will not let me reveal anything else other than the fact that this final letter to His children will be finished in the year 2006 -and soon after that it will be published and these two witneeses will be revealed to the children of the Most High.
And yes their ministry will be filled with miracles -and many saints of the Lord who have resently stepped into eternity will be brought back from the dead as proof given to the children of God Almighty!
For the Lord God of all of creation has decreed it to be!
[right][snapback]14604[/snapback][/right]
It's 2006 now. Any updates on this?!?! And nobody ever commented on this post that I saw, unless it was deleted. I thought surely Elijah would have. Maybe since he was back today . . . !
I just wonder what happens to a person that causes them to feel a "calling" like this (is that the right word?). Elijah, if you're still around, how did you come to feel called as a witness? I think people asked for your testimony on that, but I don't remember reading it.
QUOTE(shy1 @ Jan 3 2006, 03:42 PM)
QUOTE(tribulation-witness @ Sep 25 2005, 10:38 PM)
The two witnesses are here now! And they will be revealed through the scroll Daniel was told to seal until the time of the end. This is also the epistle from Laodicea Paul told us to read at the end of Colossians! This final letter to the children of God Almighty will have many new prophecies in it, and as these all come to pass, the Bride of Christ will fully understand these two are the two lampstands prophesied to come in the book of Zechariah and Revelation, and this is the time of the end spoken of by the prophets of old and the Lamb Himself!
The oldest of the two is the one the Holy Spirit is writing this letter through.
This is all I can reveal at this moment in time -for the Father will not let me reveal anything else other than the fact that this final letter to His children will be finished in the year 2006 -and soon after that it will be published and these two witneeses will be revealed to the children of the Most High.
And yes their ministry will be filled with miracles -and many saints of the Lord who have resently stepped into eternity will be brought back from the dead as proof given to the children of God Almighty!
For the Lord God of all of creation has decreed it to be!
[right][snapback]14604[/snapback][/right]
It's 2006 now. Any updates on this?!?! And nobody ever commented on this post that I saw, unless it was deleted. I thought surely Elijah would have. Maybe since he was back today . . . !
I just wonder what happens to a person that causes them to feel a "calling" like this (is that the right word?). Elijah, if you're still around, how did you come to feel called as a witness? I think people asked for your testimony on that, but I don't remember reading it.
[right][snapback]31346[/snapback][/right]
oh my!!!! this i am sorry, made me laugh not your post by the one from Sept....
Doing Bible research for some 35 years now. Grant R. Jeffrey in his book, "Prince of Darkness" page 265 has it correct. Elijah and Enoch will be the two witnesses. Did a research paper on same. Elijah is female, Enoch male. These two people have been tried in the burning, blazing, hotter than you can ever know furnace; molded beyond belief and are here now. Both people, as expected are very reluctant. Elijah and Enoch are not the same people as in the Old Testament, but two with the same powers. Did a paper on "The Prophet Elijah and the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel."
On page 267 Grant Jeffrey tells how (Elijah) will restore the tribal identities of the Jews. This also is true. Here's a little something I have also researched and have had a word from the Lord. Long story, so will give it to you in a nutshell. The Latter-Day Saints known as the Mormons are one of the lost tribes of Israel. Very true. For a start you can check their background; and try not to be prejudice. They sort of got sidetracked "big time" along the way. God is good.
Blessings
On page 267 Grant Jeffrey tells how (Elijah) will restore the tribal identities of the Jews. This also is true. Here's a little something I have also researched and have had a word from the Lord. Long story, so will give it to you in a nutshell. The Latter-Day Saints known as the Mormons are one of the lost tribes of Israel. Very true. For a start you can check their background; and try not to be prejudice. They sort of got sidetracked "big time" along the way. God is good.
Blessings
You are right on target Pamela. How did YOU find out that the two witnesses are here now? I am very excited you have been given this information. Tell me more. My email - ashethel2004@yahoo.com
Tell me more about this scroll of Daniel. I just posted info on same. The time is perfect. Blessings.
The two witnesses are here now! And they will be revealed through the scroll Daniel was told to seal until the time of the end. This is also the epistle from Laodicea Paul told us to read at the end of Colossians!
This final letter to the children of God Almighty will have many new prophecies in it, and as these all come to pass, the Bride of Christ will fully understand these two are the two lampstands prophesied to come in the book of Zechariah and Revelation, and this is the time of the end spoken of by the prophets of old and the Lamb Himself!
The oldest of the two is the one the Holy Spirit is writing this letter through.
This is all I can reveal at this moment in time -for the Father will not let me reveal anything else other than the fact that this final letter to His children will be finished in the year 2006 -and soon after that it will be published and these two witneeses will be revealed to the children of the Most High.
And yes their ministry will be filled with miracles -and many saints of the Lord who have resently stepped into eternity will be brought back from the dead as proof given to the children of God Almighty!
For the Lord God of all of creation has decreed it to be!
[right][snapback]14604[/snapback][/right]
It's 2006 now. Any updates on this?!?! And nobody ever commented on this post that I saw, unless it was deleted. I thought surely Elijah would have. Maybe since he was back today . . . !
I just wonder what happens to a person that causes them to feel a "calling" like this (is that the right word?). Elijah, if you're still around, how did you come to feel called as a witness? I think people asked for your testimony on that, but I don't remember reading it.
[right][snapback]31346[/snapback][/right]
oh my!!!! this i am sorry, made me laugh not your post by the one from Sept....
[right][snapback]31369[/snapback][/right]
Tell me more about this scroll of Daniel. I just posted info on same. The time is perfect. Blessings.
QUOTE(Pamela @ Jan 3 2006, 07:13 PM)
QUOTE(shy1 @ Jan 3 2006, 03:42 PM)
QUOTE(tribulation-witness @ Sep 25 2005, 10:38 PM)
The two witnesses are here now! And they will be revealed through the scroll Daniel was told to seal until the time of the end. This is also the epistle from Laodicea Paul told us to read at the end of Colossians! This final letter to the children of God Almighty will have many new prophecies in it, and as these all come to pass, the Bride of Christ will fully understand these two are the two lampstands prophesied to come in the book of Zechariah and Revelation, and this is the time of the end spoken of by the prophets of old and the Lamb Himself!
The oldest of the two is the one the Holy Spirit is writing this letter through.
This is all I can reveal at this moment in time -for the Father will not let me reveal anything else other than the fact that this final letter to His children will be finished in the year 2006 -and soon after that it will be published and these two witneeses will be revealed to the children of the Most High.
And yes their ministry will be filled with miracles -and many saints of the Lord who have resently stepped into eternity will be brought back from the dead as proof given to the children of God Almighty!
For the Lord God of all of creation has decreed it to be!
[right][snapback]14604[/snapback][/right]
It's 2006 now. Any updates on this?!?! And nobody ever commented on this post that I saw, unless it was deleted. I thought surely Elijah would have. Maybe since he was back today . . . !
I just wonder what happens to a person that causes them to feel a "calling" like this (is that the right word?). Elijah, if you're still around, how did you come to feel called as a witness? I think people asked for your testimony on that, but I don't remember reading it.
[right][snapback]31346[/snapback][/right]
oh my!!!! this i am sorry, made me laugh not your post by the one from Sept....
[right][snapback]31369[/snapback][/right]
You are right on target Pamela. How did YOU find out that the two witnesses are here now? I am very excited you have been given this information. Tell me more. My email - ashethel2004@yahoo.com
Tell me more about this scroll of Daniel. The time is perfect. Blessings.
Not sure how this works; I'm new.
The two witnesses are here now! And they will be revealed through the scroll Daniel was told to seal until the time of the end. This is also the epistle from Laodicea Paul told us to read at the end of Colossians!
This final letter to the children of God Almighty will have many new prophecies in it, and as these all come to pass, the Bride of Christ will fully understand these two are the two lampstands prophesied to come in the book of Zechariah and Revelation, and this is the time of the end spoken of by the prophets of old and the Lamb Himself!
The oldest of the two is the one the Holy Spirit is writing this letter through.
This is all I can reveal at this moment in time -for the Father will not let me reveal anything else other than the fact that this final letter to His children will be finished in the year 2006 -and soon after that it will be published and these two witneeses will be revealed to the children of the Most High.
And yes their ministry will be filled with miracles -and many saints of the Lord who have resently stepped into eternity will be brought back from the dead as proof given to the children of God Almighty!
For the Lord God of all of creation has decreed it to be!
[right][snapback]14604[/snapback][/right]
It's 2006 now. Any updates on this?!?! And nobody ever commented on this post that I saw, unless it was deleted. I thought surely Elijah would have. Maybe since he was back today . . . !
I just wonder what happens to a person that causes them to feel a "calling" like this (is that the right word?). Elijah, if you're still around, how did you come to feel called as a witness? I think people asked for your testimony on that, but I don't remember reading it.
[right][snapback]31346[/snapback][/right]
oh my!!!! this i am sorry, made me laugh not your post by the one from Sept....
[right][snapback]31369[/snapback][/right]
Tell me more about this scroll of Daniel. The time is perfect. Blessings.
Not sure how this works; I'm new.
QUOTE(Pamela @ Jan 3 2006, 07:13 PM)
QUOTE(shy1 @ Jan 3 2006, 03:42 PM)
QUOTE(tribulation-witness @ Sep 25 2005, 10:38 PM)
The two witnesses are here now! And they will be revealed through the scroll Daniel was told to seal until the time of the end. This is also the epistle from Laodicea Paul told us to read at the end of Colossians! This final letter to the children of God Almighty will have many new prophecies in it, and as these all come to pass, the Bride of Christ will fully understand these two are the two lampstands prophesied to come in the book of Zechariah and Revelation, and this is the time of the end spoken of by the prophets of old and the Lamb Himself!
The oldest of the two is the one the Holy Spirit is writing this letter through.
This is all I can reveal at this moment in time -for the Father will not let me reveal anything else other than the fact that this final letter to His children will be finished in the year 2006 -and soon after that it will be published and these two witneeses will be revealed to the children of the Most High.
And yes their ministry will be filled with miracles -and many saints of the Lord who have resently stepped into eternity will be brought back from the dead as proof given to the children of God Almighty!
For the Lord God of all of creation has decreed it to be!
[right][snapback]14604[/snapback][/right]
It's 2006 now. Any updates on this?!?! And nobody ever commented on this post that I saw, unless it was deleted. I thought surely Elijah would have. Maybe since he was back today . . . !
I just wonder what happens to a person that causes them to feel a "calling" like this (is that the right word?). Elijah, if you're still around, how did you come to feel called as a witness? I think people asked for your testimony on that, but I don't remember reading it.
[right][snapback]31346[/snapback][/right]
oh my!!!! this i am sorry, made me laugh not your post by the one from Sept....
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Excellent insight. Where did you get your information on the witnesses? Elijah is female and Enoch is male. Both, right now are very reluctant messangers. God is good. Posted info today on same. You can talk to me at ashethel2004@yahoo.com. Interested in your personal research into these two people. Blessings.
QUOTE(THE BLINDMAN @ Dec 26 2003, 03:35 AM)
YOU GOT THE END PART RIGHT , FOOD FOR THOUGHT REVELATION (10:9-11)
THAT WOULD BE JOHN, LETS CALL HIM JOHN THE REVELATOR
THE TWO WITNESSES ARE HERE AND WALKING THE EARTH JUST AS THE ANTI-CHRIST AND FALSE PROPHET ARE... SOON THEY WILL BE REVEALED.
CHRIST'S LAST CHURCH---THE BLINDMAN---MALACHI(3:1)
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THAT WOULD BE JOHN, LETS CALL HIM JOHN THE REVELATOR
THE TWO WITNESSES ARE HERE AND WALKING THE EARTH JUST AS THE ANTI-CHRIST AND FALSE PROPHET ARE... SOON THEY WILL BE REVEALED.
CHRIST'S LAST CHURCH---THE BLINDMAN---MALACHI(3:1)
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Responding to Miki. God never just gives a person a mission without the furnace and lots, and lots of study.
Just as John the Baptist was the first forerunner for the first coming of Jesus, so Elijah (in spirit and power, not the same person of the OT) will be the forerunner of the second coming of Jesus. After studying in synagogue for 26 years, the Jews will be told who their Messiah is - and the veil will be lifted from their eyes. Did a bible research study on this. Very long. Enoch is the second witness. Blessings.
Just as John the Baptist was the first forerunner for the first coming of Jesus, so Elijah (in spirit and power, not the same person of the OT) will be the forerunner of the second coming of Jesus. After studying in synagogue for 26 years, the Jews will be told who their Messiah is - and the veil will be lifted from their eyes. Did a bible research study on this. Very long. Enoch is the second witness. Blessings.
QUOTE(Miki @ Feb 12 2004, 08:22 AM)
But in John the Baptist it's the SPIRIT of Elijah that comes back...And we know that John was filled with Holy Spirit even in his mothers womb.
Why? To proclaim the coming ministry of Christ. He was the forerunner.
John didn't have some personal human spirit of Elijah.
And we know the spirit of Elijah comes again in the last days to do the same thing all over again. To proclaim the second coming of Christ. Also to enable us to stand against the Spirit of Jezebel.
That would be the whole new age type thinking embodied in this kind of global community spirit, backed with false lying signs and wonders right?
But the spirit of Elijah again isn't personal but a facet of the Holy Spirit doing a specific task through chosen vessels.
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Why? To proclaim the coming ministry of Christ. He was the forerunner.
John didn't have some personal human spirit of Elijah.
And we know the spirit of Elijah comes again in the last days to do the same thing all over again. To proclaim the second coming of Christ. Also to enable us to stand against the Spirit of Jezebel.
That would be the whole new age type thinking embodied in this kind of global community spirit, backed with false lying signs and wonders right?
But the spirit of Elijah again isn't personal but a facet of the Holy Spirit doing a specific task through chosen vessels.
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QUOTE(ethel @ Jan 20 2006, 02:22 PM)
Excellent insight. Where did you get your information on the witnesses? Elijah is female and Enoch is male. Both, right now are very reluctant messangers. God is good. Posted info today on same. You can talk to me at ashethel2004@yahoo.com. Interested in your personal research into these two people. Blessings.
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QUOTE(THE BLINDMAN @ Dec 26 2003, 03:35 AM)
YOU GOT THE END PART RIGHT , FOOD FOR THOUGHT REVELATION (10:9-11)
THAT WOULD BE JOHN, LETS CALL HIM JOHN THE REVELATOR
THE TWO WITNESSES ARE HERE AND WALKING THE EARTH JUST AS THE ANTI-CHRIST AND FALSE PROPHET ARE... SOON THEY WILL BE REVEALED.
CHRIST'S LAST CHURCH---THE BLINDMAN---MALACHI(3:1)
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THAT WOULD BE JOHN, LETS CALL HIM JOHN THE REVELATOR
THE TWO WITNESSES ARE HERE AND WALKING THE EARTH JUST AS THE ANTI-CHRIST AND FALSE PROPHET ARE... SOON THEY WILL BE REVEALED.
CHRIST'S LAST CHURCH---THE BLINDMAN---MALACHI(3:1)
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Wow, I just came across this post today....fabulous insights have been given. I will only say in part, something the Lord revealed to me some thirty years ago...yes, the witnesses are humans who will have HIS Holy Spirit abiding in them totally! I even had a vision of the Two at the wall, and yes, one was female and the other male....no one could know this without the Holy Spirits help....I had never mentioned my vision before, UNTIL NOW!!!
Let me look for one scripture in Zechariah that may shed light on the subject...."These are the two anointed ones who stand by the Lord of the whole earth." If this referred to "some saint from the past or an angel of the Lords" I think this would have been worded differently...not just as "the two anointed ones" which means to me, they have to be upon this earth, not already anyone who has already been here. Of course this is all just IMHO. I am sitting thinking "this cannot just be a coincedence" that this is being brought into His light, at this particular moment in time, IMHO. Nothing in my opinion is by coincedence...I truly think HE is trying to tell us something! Amen! YSIC hannah fievel
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