Most speculation about the identity of the two end-time prophets boils down to Moses and Elijah, or Enoch and Elijah for good reasons. Two New Testament passages complicate the matter, Matt.17:11-13, and John 1:21. Now since reincarnation is not an option, what did Christ mean? And why did John deny that he was Elijah? The key to understanding this, I believe, is to really focus on the symbolism God chose to employ in revealing this prophecy. But first an observation, if John was the expected Elijah, and yet was born as an infant, why should we expect Elijah to come into the world as a fully formed man next time? The answer to this mystery in my opinion, lies in Zech. ch.4. The two olive trees are the key. Trees have multiple branches. I believe Christ was telling us that John and Elijah were different branches from the same olive tree, or if you prefer, different olives from the same branch. Either way, this is the only explanation I can think of that eliminates the apparent contradiction regarding John and Elijah in the above mentioned passages. Perhaps Enoch was the first branch to sprout from that tree. After all, the similarity between Enoch and Elijah is as strong as the similarity between John and Elijah. What about the other tree? The key there I think is the Transfiguration. That's why I call it the "Moses Tree". As for other branches on that tree, it's pure speculation on my part but I would say those other two giants of the Old Testament who walked and talked with God, Noah and Abraham. If my theory is correct, the identity of the two end time prophets will remain unknown, even to themselves, until their real work begins.

YOU GOT THE END PART RIGHT , FOOD FOR THOUGHT REVELATION (10:9-11)

THAT WOULD BE JOHN, LETS CALL HIM JOHN THE REVELATOR

THE TWO WITNESSES ARE HERE AND WALKING THE EARTH JUST AS THE ANTI-CHRIST AND FALSE PROPHET ARE... SOON THEY WILL BE REVEALED.

CHRIST'S LAST CHURCH---THE BLINDMAN---MALACHI(3:1)

I've compiled and scanned in some stuff that's very important regarding the two prophets/witnesses and 'us', the soon-to-be-raptured saints.

http://www.geocities.com/twobombs/apoceli.html

This is new stuff plus some scanned pages from R.H. Charlesworth' Books.
These two pages are from the Apocalypse of Elija.

Personally, I think we are reading too litterally about the two witnesses. First of all, what are they witnesses of? Since the Bible refered to Elijah returning before the messiah, everyone expected Elijah to literally return. But Jesus response to this was that Elijah did come back, though John the Baptist. Now, since we know that reincarnation is not possible, the only other conclusion that I can come to is that the Bible refers to OT prophets to sybolize a characteristic of that prophet. For example, John the Baptist entered into a ministry of repentance as did Elijah. John also witnessed to the Messiah's arrival out in the wilderness. Elijah prophesied out in the wilderness. John convicted people of their sin by the Spirit of the Lord. Elijah stood against the enemies of God by the power of the Spirit.
Old Testament prophets have come for the purpose of their time. They grew up knowing the culture and traditions and problems of their time. The fact that Enoch, Elijah, and Moses did not see death the same as you or I will, does not negate the fact that their time was finished on earth. The two witnesses spoken of in Revelation I believe to be two regular people on earth today who will accomplish amazing things for our Lord. Whether they know themselves or not is a fact that the Lord himself will reveal to them. Does that mean that they will be super holy or something like that? No. It just means that they are sinners saved by the grace of Jesus. Purpose is decided by our Lord. Our purpose is to be a witness to the world that Jesus came, died for our sins, and is coming again very soon. These two witnesses in Revelation will be anionted by the Spirit of God and showing the character of many OT prophets including Enoch, Moses, and Elijah.

Be always prepared to give a reason for the hope we share in Jesus!

Your brother in Christ,
Kap:)

But in John the Baptist it's the SPIRIT of Elijah that comes back...And we know that John was filled with Holy Spirit even in his mothers womb.

Why? To proclaim the coming ministry of Christ. He was the forerunner.

John didn't have some personal human spirit of Elijah.

And we know the spirit of Elijah comes again in the last days to do the same thing all over again. To proclaim the second coming of Christ. Also to enable us to stand against the Spirit of Jezebel.

That would be the whole new age type thinking embodied in this kind of global community spirit, backed with false lying signs and wonders right?

But the spirit of Elijah again isn't personal but a facet of the Holy Spirit doing a specific task through chosen vessels.

I fully agree. The character of Elijah is not a human characteristic. Such characteristics are the fruit of the Holy Spirit and a sign of a follower of Jesus. And just as the Holy Spirit was active in John as he declared the coming of Jesus, the two witnesses of Revelation will also be annointed with the Holy Spirit to declare Jesus return.

Please forgive me for not clarifying this to begin with.

In Christ,
Kap:)

Dear Iyyob

please email me at carmineb@comcast.net

we need to talk BADLY regarding your position on Hawkins.....

I'll prove to yo some of the blapshemies he has made...

In Christ's love...

CArmine

I hadn't thought that possiblity, but yes, they may not know beforehand.

Elijah was not Hebrew. Elijah the Tishbit.

I've thought along these lines too, but it might not hold water because how many times did Lazarus die?

I believe: The 2 prophets are moses and elijah. Who was on the mount? Moses and Elijah. I believe they were pouring their wisdom in to Jesus on the mount. Pouring their oil in to the lamp. After all Jesus was a man with fleshly temptations. I am sure that he did not want to die on the cross but he denied himself and did the work of his father. This would take a little encouragment in my opinion. I believe that the conversation between Jesus, Moses, and Elijah was of that nature on the mount.
I believe that in the end times there will be people with the "spirit of moses and elijah" Leading and directing Gods elect out of the bondage of persecution and false teaching and doctrines. The false teachings, preachings, and doctrines are already here.

John didn't know that he was elijah because the SPIRIT of GOD did not allow him to know. But the SPIRIT of GOD allowed CHRIST to know that John was elijah. Just like the SPIRIT of GOD did not allow CHRIST to know the day and the hour of HIS return.
Because Elijah loved GOD. GOD removed the spirit of man from him and put HIS own SPIRIT in him. Because of this Elijah could not stand to be in the flesh anylonger. So GOD took him up and disipated his body and his spirit went back into GOD. The two witnesses come in the SPIRIT of GOD which elijah had by GODS measure. They are sent to the church to bring forth the great finish just before the comming of the LORD.

through faith in HIM alone
a son of man

I'm thinking that man is triune; body, soul, and spirit.

the body is the physical flesh, bone and blood.

the soul is the ever-lasting unit of person-hood. the in-destructible spark of life and consciousness that God put in us. The soul is "me", whether I have a physical body or not. People and God(?) have souls; horses, cows, and plants have no souls. Do angels have souls? I think so. They are personalities, aren't they? Angels have bodies, names, free-will, decision-making capabilities; so, I think they have souls.

the spirit is my mind (decision-making), personality, charisma (if I have any).


*********
My point is:
I doubt that God took Elijah's spirit (mind and personality) out of him.

If I understand it right:
An un-saved person makes his own decisions (perhaps under the influence and/or control of Satan and demons).
A saved, born-again, regenerated person has a mind, and he also is indwelt by the Spirit of God. So, a Christian's mind (spirit) co-operates with the Spirit of God to make decisions. If I'm led by the Spirit, God helps me to make decisions, whether I'm aware of it or not.


***********************
I read an email from Bishop Shelby Spong today. I dis-agree very much with his beliefs. But he said one thing interesting. He said "Reverend is derived from "revered one".
Some preachers that I know, don't want to be called Reverend. God is the Revered One.

dennis manning

One reason it might not be Elijah is that he's taken out. But who saw him go?
Elisha...Not that l think it is Elisha.

When the 'fullness' comes in are we taken out right away or do we walk for a time.
Do you know any Jews that need a full time job?

Maybe his manifest presence in us (and it's not fully here yet) will cause curious Jews to take a closer look.....And as they look they will see us depart...

Thus the 144,000??

Here's something l just thought of though....John the B. who had the Spirit of Eljah was beheaded...Maybe we'll get that instead of the rapture.

Catholics are triune. And the SPIRIT of GOD is not the spirit of man pretending. The SPIRIT of GOD is evident in the believer by the power. The kingdom of GOD is not in word but in power. The spirit of GOD will bear witness to those who Have received HIM by the display of HIS power.

By faith in HIM alone
a son of man

The last time that elijah was sighted was in the transfiguration on the mount after JOHNS death.


By faith in HIM alone
a son of man

[ Even so Let him come.


Glory to the lamb of God!




Jeep

They are already here.

By faith in HIM alone
a son of man

So.............what does that mean exactly?

It means that the LORD's two witnesses are already here.



By faith in HIM alone
a son of man

And.....How do you know that? Where are they? Who are they?

Because there was one of them walking in the storm that we had a couple of weeks ago. It was raining hard except in the pillar of light that he was walking in. You could see the pillar of light right through the storm and every where he walked the ground became dry in front of him. He payed no attention to the storm just like it wasn't there. Where are they? They are on their way to begin the work that the LORD has sent them to do. Who are they? They are the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel: 'Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,' Says the Lord of hosts. 'Who are you, O great mountain? Before Zerubbabel you shall become a plain! And he shall bring forth the great finish With shouts of "Grace, grace to it!"



By faith in HIM alone
a son of man

Elijah says:

"Because there was one of them walking in the storm that we had a couple of weeks ago. It was raining hard except in the pillar of light that he was walking in. You could see the pillar of light right through the storm and every where he walked the ground became dry in front of him. He payed no attention to the storm just like it wasn't there. "

So did you see this or did someone tell you?

Yeah did you see this?

Jeep

I will answer that question after you answer two questions for me.

1. Do you believe Jesus was talking to you in the following scripture?

Mr 11:23
For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be removed and be cast into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says.

2. Do you believe what he said?


By faith in HIM alone
a son of man

I do

This post is so close. Christ was simply having fellowship with two who knew what was happening in a world of people who didn't. the rest of this post is absolutly true.

By faith in HIM alone
a son of man

We are to submit one to another, not play semantics with scripture.

Matthew 12
48 But He answered and said to the one who told Him, "Who is My mother and who are My brothers?"
49 And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, "Here are My mother and My brothers!
50 For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother."

2Co 6:14
Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

Joh 14:12
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.

Re 2:5
Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place--unless you repent.

Re 2:5
Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place--unless you repent.
[right][snapback]4882[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]



WHat does "do your first works" actually mean to you guys?

Jeep

[quote=FMDJeep,Jan 26 2005, 11:17 PM]
Re 2:5
Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place--unless you repent.
[right][snapback]4882[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]



WHat does "do your first works" actually mean to you guys?

Jeep
[right][snapback]4883[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]


Joh 14:12
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.

works,

can be good works or evil works

And, of course, Jesus wants us to do good works

Apparently those people had done good works, but they back-slid. They were not as eager to do good works as when they first got saved.
They had helped the poor, prayed, studied the Bible, fed the hungry, preached the Gospel. But, later they reduced (or quit) their good works.

Good works are a "labor of love". There is a lot of work in the Christian life, but we work with Joy, and Peace of mind, and Peace of heart. How good it is to be tired at the end of the day, because we have sent medecine to the sick, and Bibles to the Bible-less!

Jesus commands us to do good works, but He does not force us to do so. We have free-will.

Rev 2:5 NLT You don't love Me or each other as you did at first. Look how far you have fallen from your first love! Turn back to Me again and work as you did at first. If you don't, I will come and remove your lampstand from its place among the churches.

Love is the motivation for doing good works.

Jesus commanded us to "Love your enemies".
Love is very often a decision, not an emotion. If I don't FEEL love for my enemies. then I DECIDE to love my enemies. It's an act of faith. God is testing our faith. If we choose to obey His commandments, we are 'Heros of Faith" (Hebrews chapter 11). If we fail to love our enemies, we've failed God's test of our faith.

Here is where we Persevere in the faith. Endure till the end.

If we fail to obey the Scripture, that proves that we don't believe the Scripture.

This Scripture seems to contradict "eternal security, once saved always saved".


dennis manning

Unfortunatly we live in the days of darkness that CHRIST said would come.

Joh 9:4
I must work the works of Him who sent Me while it is day; the night is coming when no one can work.

Lu 18:8
I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?"

Mt 6:23
But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

Am 5:18
Woe to you who desire the day of the Lord! For what good is the day of the Lord to you? It will be darkness, and not light.
Am 5:20
Is not the day of the Lord darkness, and not light? Is it not very dark, with no brightness in it?



By faith in HIM alone
a son of man

Since this thread is about the two witnesses here is their whole ministry. page 1


THE TWO WITNESSES
For the LORD will send out two others, and they will prophecy, one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.
Therefore come out from among them and be separate, Says the LORD. Do not touch what is unclean, and I will receive you.
These two, did not know the LORD from the time they were born. The SPIRIT of the LORD drew them to search for HIM. The SPIRIT led them to CHRIST, to repentance and forgiveness, and to thirst for the righteousness of the LORD. These two, are the anointed ones, the two olive trees that stand beside the LORD of the whole earth. One on this river bank and the other on that river bank. They are sent out by CHRIST who is above the waters of the river, and the waters of the river are the people who claim to be the people of GOD. They are sent out to measure the people, on earth, who call themselves, the people of GOD. They have been given the plum line, which is the righteousness, of the LORD. The rod of righteousness is their measuring tool. And they will bring justice to those who are upright and straight in the LORD, and disaster to those who are not. These two come in the spirit of ELIJAH and MOSES, with the full power of the SPIRIT of the LORD. Now the SPIRIT of the LORD, is also their rear guard, so that no one can harm them, until their ministry is finished. If any one would try to lay hands on them to cause harm, or lay in wait to shoot them, the LORD will warn them before hand, then they will turn and speak the words, and fire will proceed down on the heads of their enemies, and totally consume their enemies. The two witnesses of the LORD, have been instructed to hack off their hair and to put on sacks for clothes and to tie a rope around their waist for a belt, as a witness against the people.
When they begin their ministry, They are sent to, large congregations of people, who claim they are CHRIST'S people, Where they will be laughed at, mocked and treated spitefully. Then when the word is given by the church leaders, for them to be thrown out of the congregation, then fire will consume the young men, who try to lay hands on them, and great fear will fall on all who see it. Then the LORD'S two witnesses will speak to the sky and to the heavens, in front of these, two congregations, who have rejected them. Then lightning, thundering, and earthquakes will go out from these two different parts of the earth, over the face of the whole earth, And the two witnesses of the LORD will have given the order, that no more rain shall fall on the face of the earth, for three and a half years, or a time, times, and a half time, or one thousand two hundred and sixty days, or forty two months. Then all weather, over the face of the whole earth, will disappear, for that amount of time.


By faith in HIM alone
ason of man



page 2 comming

page 2


Immediately the sun will cause blistering heat everywhere . It will become like a death valley summer everywhere on earth.
Although witness of these events will go out from the two
congregations. Not every one on earth will know the truth about what has happened. Most people will be subject to the rumors and debates produced by the news medias and talk shows. Even the prominent scientists and leaders will give their opinions. But the truth will remain, That GOD, has begun to take away his daily sacrifice to man, and the great trouble, of which there has been none greater since there was a nation, no, nor will there be any greater, HAS BEGUN. This is also the beginning of the time period, for the setting up, of the abomination of desolation.
The two witnesses, will continue their ministry, only to be rejected by most Christian assemblies. Then not many days after the weather on earth disappears, and because the people, that call themselves, the people of GOD, will not receive correction from the LORD'S two witnesses, They will speak to the oceans and seas, in front of the congregations who have rejected them. Then going out from those two different parts of the earth, The oceans and seas, of the earth, will turn to blood. Like the blood of a dead man, and every living thing in the oceans and seas, will die.
The LORD'S two witnesses will continue their ministry, going out to more Christian congregations. Even though most of them will be in a panic by then. The two witnesses will still be mocked and treated shamefully. Then because those who speak in the name of the LORD, will not listen to the word of the LORD, through HIS two witnesses. They will speak to the inland waters, from two different parts of the earth, in front of two different congregations. Then the waters of the rivers, lakes, reservoirs, levies, canals, wells, springs, bottles, cans, and all fresh water supplies, will turn to blood, Like the blood of a dead man, And every living thing in the waters will die. Even the remainder of the polar ice caps that did not melt from the blistering heat, will turn to blood.
The slanderers of the earth will give all kinds of reasons and theories about why and what has happened. But all of their efforts to explain and to overcome, will come to nothing.
This plague of blood will change things here on earth, very rapidly. Electricity will stop, because of no water to turn their generators. Business will stop, because of no electricity. Darkness will fall on the seat of the beast, on every nation on earth. All manufacturing will stop, all over the globe. Not many days will pass, and people will abandon their homes. Because of the heat, and when they turn on their faucets and flush their toilets, blood will come out instead of water. And so after a while, EVERY HOUSE IS SHUT UP SO THAT NONE MAY GO IN.



By faith in HIM alone
a son of man


page 3 comming

page 3



At this point, The general public will be in a great panic.
There will be violent runs on super markets, gas stations, stores of all kinds. Finally every place that bought or sold or stored anything, will be looted and destroyed by the people. Fires will consume much, because there will be no water to put them out. Very quickly all of the supplies of everything in the world, will be gone.
Most of the people will become vicious, because of the heat and no food and water. Then those who love evil and despise GOOD will begin robbing, killing, raping, pillaging and hating each other, even their own brothers and sisters, over whatever they can find.
The LORD'S two witnesses will continue their ministry, Even though a congregation is hard to find by human standards, the SPIRIT of the LORD leads them on. Now many people have come to the knowledge of the truth. But there are many more who have not. So in front of congregations who have rejected them. They will speak the words, and great swarms of insects, both flying and crawling insects, will appear all over the earth. Then the insects will eat every remaining plant and tree. Because of the amount of meat eating and stinging insects, many people will die from this plague. Then the wild animals, even the pets that once befriended them, will turn on them in packs. The birds will start feeding on the dead bodies of people, That will start lining the streets of the cities of the world. Nuclear power plants will melt down and kill many, because of the suddenness of no water to cool them. Things will really start to escalate. Prisoners will walk out of the prisons, when they are abandoned by the people who can no longer feed and water them. The militaries and policing agencies, of the world, will disband, because they will be as worthless and vicious as everyone else, in the world. And thus those who restrain, are taken out of the way, and the man of sin is now revealed. "O" that men would have believed our report. For even PAUL wrote witness for you, saying "FOR YOU YOURSELVES KNOW PERFECTLY THAT THE DAY OF THE LORD SO COMES AS A THIEF IN THE NIGHT. FOR WHEN THEY SAY, PEACE AND SAFETY THEN SUDDEN DESTRUCTION COMES UPON THEM AS LABOR PAINS UPON A PREGNANT WOMAN. AND THEY SHALL NOT ESCAPE". Now will GOD not bring forth the birth of his holy nation? Will birth pains not precede the birth? Or will the birth pains last forever? Even after the birth? Will those who are being delivered, not go through the birth? "O" man why have you not understood these things? For there will be a crying in the streets, on the hills, in the mountains and in the valleys for water, food, wine, drugs, cigarettes, medicines, all that anyone had grown fond of will be gone, And all that their souls long for they will not find.


By faith in HIM alone
a son of man


page 4 comming

page 4

The blood in the oceans, seas, and inland water supplies will
coagulate, harden and rot. The stink will go up into the air, and be hard to bare, along with the smell of rotting bodies everywhere.
All that man has created by worshiping the works of his hands, has come to nothing. All of the gold, silver, jewels, money, cars, trucks, fuels, talent, causes, knowledge, songs, ability, ministries, Nothing will be able to buy a single drop of water, to drink, or a single bite of food to eat, or a way out of the extreme heat of the days. So everyone is in the same condition, as with the rich so with the poor, as with the buyer so with the seller, as with the shepherd so with the sheep. All who have rejected the LORD and his two witnesses, are in agony.
Things will get so bad, Bands of people will form all over the world, That will start killing people and eating them for food and drinking their blood for water. They will be using, and trusting in, guns, knives, bows and arrows, cross bows, machine guns canons, airplanes, helicopters, tanks. All kinds of arms to do this thing. Now if anyone chooses this path of eating people for food and drinking blood for water. They will be sealed for destruction at the coming of the LORD. Regardless of whether it is distilled or any other deception. Those who have not found the truth by then, who would be called a child of LIGHT, will eat any other thing, Insects, animals, ect. Finally every animal will have been killed or eaten for food.
Those who have believed will be in the camps of the LORD. The LORD'S true shepherds will have started up camps where the SPIRIT of the LORD will feed the people with manna. The true shepherds will bring water out of the face of the rock to water the flocks. There will be nothing in the camps of the LORD except people. The people will be bald with their hair hacked off, it will be the same with men, women, and children. They will all be clothed in sack cloth, with a rope around their waist. Everyone will be dirty and smell like people who have not bathed in a long time. No one justified will wear any ornaments or paint on the bodies that are called the temple of GOD, because of the fear of the LORD. All of the people in the camps, will give praise and thanks to the LORD day and night in fear and trembling. For the fear of the LORD had been taught by the commandments of men, teaching their god who loves perversity. But now they can see that man was wrong, and after all that has happened, The LORD has delivered them from it all. The SPIRIT of the LORD has fed and watered them and protected them with HIS fire that comes down from the sky on the heads of his enemies. The SPIRIT of the LORD is also their unseen shade from the heat of the days.
All of this will take place after the hirelings, who were in charge of the LORD'S sheep in THE GREEN WOOD, have come to nothing in the DRY. Those who divined for money and taught and prophesied for a bribe. For they could not show or tell their followers what to do to cure their ills.



By faith in HIM alone
a son of man


page 5 comming

page 5

They were worthless because of what they believed. So some of them will become sheep needing help themselves, because of true humility. Others will try to flee the persecution of their own followers, only to find, there is no place to run. Some will be dashed to pieces, because they were treacherous dealers, Indeed they were very treacherous dealers.
Still the LORD had true shepherds out there, waiting for all of this to happen, and more sheep will be added to their flocks daily, even from the beginning of troubles. And the saying of the LORD is remembered, "WHO THEN IS A FAITHFULL AND WISE SERVANT, WHOM HIS MASTER MADE RULER OVER HIS HOUSEHOLD, TO GIVE THEM FOOD IN DUE SEASON? BLESSED IS THAT SERVANT WHOM HIS MASTER WHEN HE COMES, WILL FIND SO DOING".
The SPIRIT of the LORD will also send out to gather, the poor in spirit, the meek of the earth, the pure in heart, those who thirst after righteousness, and all who sit in sack cloth with bald heads and cry out to the LORD for comfort.
Now there will be a group of people, who will have been surviving on processed people for food, and processed blood for water, They are also a religious group. Their leaders will have stumbled onto some of the LORDS power, But by the LORD'S design. They will gain power over most of the existing world and they will have all of mans devices at their disposal. They will lie to themselves and to all who follow them. They will say that the true GOD of heaven is with them, They will show the power of GOD to prove it. They will cause many to become sacrifices for their stomach. Then when the time has been fulfilled, And when they have reestablished their T.V. transmissions, They will kill the LORD'S two witnesses, who will be together at that time, by the power of GOD. It is part of the two witnesses ministry to die.
Now the devils who will kill them, will further deceive themselves, because when the two witnesses die, the weather will return to the earth, just like it was before the two witnesses of the LORD came. Now because it has become a common thing, to let dead bodies lay where they die, over the past three and a half years, and because of fear. No one will bury the two witnesses, of the LORD. Their dead bodies will lay in the street where they are killed, for three and a half days.
The evil ones and everyone who has followed them, will be happy and full of joy, thinking that it is all over, That the two devils who tormented those who live on the earth are dead. They will send gifts to one another and rejoice and party it up for days. They will work hard on trying to restore as much as
possible of the world, to the way it was before. For they are
lovers of the world, and this is where their hearts and minds are.


By faith in HIM alone
a son of man


page 6 comming

page 6

Then on the fourth day, half way through the fourth day, making it three and a half days, with their cameras in place, because of their arrogance, to disprove the rumors, The breath of life, from GOD, will inter back into the two witnesses, and they will stand up on their feet. Then a loud voice from the sky will say "COME UP HERE". Then the two witnesses, will ascend up into the sky, and go out of sight into a cloud. Great fear will fall on all who see and hear this. Then there will be a great earthquake, in the same hour and seven thousand of the evil ones will be killed.
When the evil ones come to their senses, after being shaken by, the great earthquake, the death of their people and the resurrection of the two witnesses, They will muster their forces and go out with red faced angry fury, to annihilate the camps of the LORD. But when they come to the places where the camps of the LORD had been, They will be gone, and they will not find them.
The SPIRIT of the LORD will have warned HIS true shepherds, And they will have started out on a journey, in one aspect like JONAH on his way to Nineveh.
The evil ones will search for many days and not find them. Then the evil ones will regroup and search the scriptures, to find out where they could have gone. They will eventually find them. Then they will muster all of their vast forces and army, and head for that place on earth, where the now combined camps of the LORD are dwelling. Then when the evil ones are approaching the Camps of the LORD, Suddenly there will be a great cracking of thunder, A great flashing of lightning, Flashing from the eastern sky toward the western sky. And as that mighty flash twinkles in the eye of the beholder, The LORDS first fruits, HIS elect, HIS true shepherds, HIS saints, HIS holy messengers, First those who were put to death for their testimony, those who sleep in the dust of the earth, Then those who are alive, those who are attending the LORD'S sheep. Will be taken up into the air , in that flash of light, And will just seem to be coming with the LORD. Thus the LORD will come riding on the clouds of glory, with all of HIS holy messengers with HIM.
Then the LORD will utter HIS voice before HIS army of saints, there will be noises, thundering, lightning and a great earthquake. Such a great and mighty earthquake, as has not happened since men were on the earth. And all of the buildings and cities of the earth will crumble to the ground, Every Island will flee away, and the mountains will not be found. Then great hail will fall out of the sky, on the evil ones, and they will blaspheme GOD because of the hail. The saints of GOD will fly out like eagles and the evil ones will run to hide. But not one of the evil ones will escape the lake of fire that comes down on their heads out of the sky like lightning.


By faith in HIM alone
a son of man


page 7 comming

page 7

Then the LORD, will send HIS saints into HIS camps of sheep, that were left here on earth without a shepherd and HIS saints will gather everyone who is not wearing the proper wedding apparel. They will be gathered and set before the throne of CHRIST, on the left side, and the LORD will slay them with the words of his mouth.
Then the LORD will turn HIS attention to his sheep on his right, the number of which only the LORD HIMSELF could count, who are now before HIS throne here on earth. And HE will say come, you blessed of MY FATHER, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from before the beginning of the world.
This will begin the millennial reign of CHRIST, in the kingdom of GOD.



By faith in HIM alone
a son of man


A true beginning

wow!

So l guess you're saying you are one of the witnesses..God said to test everything. Anybody can quote the word of God. Even the devils.

We see a lot of Gods word laced with your word and we should take it at face value because you can quote scripture? Sorry. I'm not buying you.

I don't reject God's word l reject you. God doesn't come in by the back door. He comes in the front for all to see. He doesn't hide under a cover of mystery and darkness.

Luke 4: 8

“It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only."

Of coarse you will test it. Because time will tell. What does it matter then wheather you reject me or not? Our LORD and FATHER knows everyones heart. The threat of a nuclear bomb couln't stop this from comming to pass. And the mystery thing.

Mr 4:11
And He said to them, "To you it has been given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God; but to those who are outside, all things come in parables,

Ro 16:25
Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began

1Co 2:7
But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory,

And you are hiding your member name under the cloak of Guest. Is that hiding you from the LORD?

By faith in HIM alone
a son of man

No one's talking about the mystrey of Gods word..I'm talking about your cloak and dagger approach. Paul didn't slip a message under the door.
He proclaimed it in the light.

We know God's word will come to pass.

I'm not hiding from the Lord. I'm in the center of his will. TEST EVERYTHING!

We can't test something that's hiding.

I believe: The 2 prophets are moses and elijah. Who was on the mount? Moses and Elijah. I believe they were pouring their wisdom in to Jesus on the mount.


it seems a bit of a stretch to suppose that anyone could teach Our Lord Jesus Christ , by whom the worlds were made , anything about wisdom .

Pro 3:19 The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens.

Col 2:2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

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I don't know Jeep , does anyone here ?
But it must be related to their First Love .

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have [somewhat] against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.


maybe this will help

II Criticism: Lack of Love
A The Christ Who walks among the golden lampstands, the Christ Who knows the works done by His church, can look into hearts and see what is really there. This Christ looks at the church of Ephesus and says, "Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken your first love" (vs 4).

"First love." Do you remember your first love? Do you remember how you felt? Your heart turned to jelly every time she or he looked at you. You would have given a kingdom, or half a peanut butter sandwich, only to have been kissed by her or him. You were crazily in love and would have done anything for her or him.

The Ephesian church had a "first love." When they were first formed they were known for that love. The Apostle Paul could write to them, "I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love ..." (Eph 1:15). They were known for their love for God, their love for each other, their love for their fellow man. They were crazily in love, and for this love they were willing to do anything.

But now it is some 25 or more years later. And, says Jesus with pain and sorrow in His heart, "You have forsaken your first love" (vs 4).

What a devastating charge! The Ephesian church has and shows little or no love.

Jesus says they have "forsaken" their first love. That word "forsaken" implies deliberate action on their part. Purposely – not accidentally – they have set aside, they have let go of, their first love.

What happened? How come this sad state of affairs has come about? As already mentioned, one of the strong points of the Ephesian church was her emphasis on sound doctrine, correct teaching, and lack of tolerance for false prophets. However, in their zeal the Ephesian church carried this too far and created a climate of suspicion in which brotherly love could no longer exist. Their (over)eagerness to root out all error ended in a sour and rigid orthodoxy. Church and kingdom work, pure doctrine, and holy living became substitutes for love. The Ephesian hatred of heresy and their involvement in the works of faith became more important than love.

B Love, however, is one of the marks of the true Christian and the true church. You all know what the Apostle Paul says:
(1 Cor 13:1-3) If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (2) If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. (3) If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.
Hanging on the wall in my office is a plaque with one of my favorite Bible texts:
(Jn 13:34-35) "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. (35) By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

Remember what the church is? The church is a lampstand. Its place and task is to show forth the light which is Christ. A church without love fails completely to show forth the light of Christ; in fact, without love a church cannot show forth the light of Christ – it is simply not possible.

C Jesus appeals to the Ephesian church to return to her first love:
(Rev 1:5) Remember the height from which you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first.
The church's first love is pictured as a "height." Like any new lover, the church was flying high, it was scaling the mountain tops. But it has fallen from the "heights" of its first love. And, it has fallen quickly. "Repent," says the Lord. That word "repent" comes up twice in our passage. It means to turn around, to change direction, to turn over a new leaf.

D And then comes a warning, a terrible frightening warning: "If you do not repent," if you do not turn around, if you do not change direction, if you do not return to your "first love," says Jesus, "I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place" (vs 5). To remove the lampstand is to destroy the church. If the church of Ephesus does not return to the way of love, it will be destroyed.

Tell me, where is the church of Ephesus today? I'm afraid it is no more. It has disappeared. It has been destroyed. Which leads us to suppose they did not listen to this warning from the Lord.

E We cannot look at the church of Ephesus without taking a close look at ourselves. We need to ask, "has our love also grown cold?" Does Christ have reason to criticize us too? Does He Who holds the seven stars and walks among the lampstands have reason to tell us to also repent and to return to our first love?

Let me tell you something I have noticed. When a church first starts everyone is full of enthusiasm. There seems to be so much love, unity, fellowship, and peace in the body. But after 25 years – when the next generation has taken over – it seems to be a different story. Much of the enthusiasm is gone. And, there is not near the love, unity, fellowship, and peace that there was before. I have seen this a number of times. When this congregation is 25 years old – the same age as the church of Ephesus in front of us this evening – will your pastors (myself, Rev. Klompien) find that you have forsaken your first love too?

Let me ask some questions that only you can answer because I cannot look into your heart. Those of you before me this evening are very faithful in church attendance. Why do you come so faithfully – because you love the Lord, or out of habit? The Trinity congregation gives so generously to the poor and needy. Why do you give so generously – because you are filled with love for the needy, or for some other reason? This congregation supports Christian Education very strongly. Why do you do this – because you love the kingdom, the covenant, and our children, or because it is the thing to do? This congregation is so orthodox and Reformed. Why – out of love for the Reformed faith, or because we know no different? Do we speak about and to each other in love? Do I write my sermons in love and do my visits in love, or is it just a job? The elders and deacons, the organists and pianists, the Church School teachers and Coffee Break leaders, the GEMS and Cadet counselors, the youth leaders – do they serve in love, or for their own glory?

Conclusion
"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches" (vs 7).

What has the Spirit said? That the Lord praises us when we work hard for the gospel and kingdom, when we are doctrinally pure, when we live holy lives. But the Spirit also tells us that the Lord wants us to be filled with love – love for God, love for each other, love for our fellow man.

This message of the Lord is not only for Ephesus or the other six churches of Asia Minor. This message is for all those in whom the Spirit works and lives; this message is for the church of all ages – including us.

"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches" (vs 7).
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You can e-mail our pastor at: Pastor, Trinity Christian Reformed Church

I absolutely agree.

Michelle, does this belong to you?
http://www.geocities.com/starrgerl/inkhorn.htm