Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed. Gal 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, The just shall live by faith. Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree: Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Because the Seed (one) came through his lineage, we are standing in a place of commanded blessing.

Mat 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

The blessing over Abraham was for wealth and possessions, and for inheritence as the sand of the sea. Spiritual and financial well being for which Christ was the final outcome. Now we are blessed with Abraham through Christ to have and to hold, to live, to love and to behold the magnitude of an inheritene wherein we are given the opportunity to become the very sons of God and to tread where even angels have not known. (or dared to go)

Psa 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? Psa 8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. Psa 8:6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all [things] under his feet:
Psa 8:7 All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; Psa 8:8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, [and whatsoever] passeth through the paths of the seas. Psa 8:9 O LORD our Lord, how excellent [is] thy name in all the earth!

I love being in a blessed union, a new covenent relationship with Christ, for it is avbout "forever," but it is ever bit as much about "now!"

Psa 23:2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. Psa 23:3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Psa 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou [art] with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. Psa 23:5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. Psa 23:6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

No. We the born again are spiritual heirs to Abraham, therefore the same "curse and blessing" principle applies to us too!

This may sound out of balance, but actually the blessing remains and the curse has been removed....Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree:

Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us]; Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace; Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Did you know that Abraham was blessed of God BEFORE the law came to Israel or before Israel had even came to be? Therefore that covenant is not a law based covenant. It is a faith based covenant....because Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Jam 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? Jam 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

The abrahamic covenant is for the 12 tribes; it is not done away with and is still functioninng. It has nothing to do with gentile christians but rather with jews whether they be saved or not. The fulfillment of the promise regarding the land will not take full shape until the messianic age of 1000 yrs...at that time the jews will dwell in Palestine with the Lord and the Gentile nations will make yearly pilgramage trips to the Holy Land.

A good book on this is written by Arnold Frutumbaum called Hebrew Christianity:

This small book covers more than the outworkings of the Abrahamic Covenant but does give ample examples of how it works.

The Church is promises spiritual blessings....the are under the blessings of the Church age....they have blessings but they work under a different covenantal form.

Of course a Covenant theologian will tell you different; however a Dispensational view of Scripture will give you a accurate outworking of God's plan and purpose.

The Covenant Theologian who assumes that the Church inhereited former covenantal promises can never answer why I don't live in Eden....some of the covenants were eternal and they say so: Abrahamic and Davidic, some are temporary, Edenic, Adamic, Mosaic and are replaced by superior covenants: Messianic ....just because a New Covenant retains some of the old covenental promises does not mean the old is in effect....if it were true, I would have died picking up sticks on Saturday.

Well I suggest this scripture plainly details that it does have a point of contact in the gentile Christian...

Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree: Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Ecc 3:14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth [it], that [men] should fear before him.

Biblical terms can sometimes be confusing.

Avraham had a covenant relationship with God. A personal covenant, is where our personal salvation comes in. The covenant with Avraham And his seed forever is a separate covenant.
Avraham's personal covanant had a dependant clause... If you will...
The Heritage covenant was unconditional It was dependant on God alone. That is why God provided the Lamb to ratify the covenant... (Ketuvah or marriage contract)

Blessings
bananna

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

There is a great thing somehow being missed by most Christians. I cannot even explain it well, for all of my verbosity...The blessings of Abraham are ours in Christ...He was the Seed that received the promises. It has to do with an eternal inheritance, for Christ is eternal and we are positioned to be eternal. But it has to do with the temporal as well. All that occured in the Abrahamic covenent occured before the law. These verses say the law was instituted because of transgressions. God could not keep the blessings flowing while men began to do sinful acts. (continually) It even says here that the law did not (could not ) disannul the Abrahamic covenant.

Gal 3:17 And this I say, [that] the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance [be] of the law, [it is] no more of promise: but God gave [it] to Abraham by promise. Gal 3:19 Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

It is going to take me a lot of renewed depth sounding in order to accomplish anything less than a superfluous understanding of all this. But it has to do with the promises of God both eternally and temporally.

Yes,
I see you are talking of the Corporate promise. It is both physical and spiritual. In the Present we are being inscribed with the ordinances of the age to come.

However the corporate promise made through one seed does not keep us alive unless with spiritually grasp hold of it and like Joshuah make Avraham's God our God. Thus as children of Avraham... children of promise we will each have our own personal covenant/calling of God.

The Eternal promise of being one with God cannot be handed down from generation to generation. Only the Physical can be fathered by the physical Father. Avraham is our spiritual father, and Yehsoshuah is our physical substitutional payment while also being our spiritual priest and King.

Children of Faith, will walk in the light of the promises and grasp hold of them.

Bananna

Are you a messianic Jew? Just wondering.

Wish I could tell from that Question what definition you put to those words... LOL

I don't have evidence of Jewish blood in the family. No one in the last 4 generations has practiced any form of Judaism.

I practice Messianic Judaism of a Torah observant sect and am a Messianic Gentile. Usually we just say Messianic.

This question can come across as rather a rude questions seeing that there is no Jew and Gentile in the body of Christ. I'm not offended, but just to give people an etiquette heads up. Since I can't really tell how you mean to ask the question or why... I hope at least I answered the question you intended to ask.

Blessings

No offense meant but I think the term Messianic Jew is routinely used...apparently as a deliniation between Jews who have accepted Christ and those who have not.

I find the term "Messianic gentile" interesting...never heard it before...I guess I would have thought that a born again person other than that from the sect of the Jews would automatically be messianic.

I practice Messianic Judaism of a Torah observant sect and am a Messianic Gentile. Usually we just say Messianic.

That would answer the question. In a round about way, is it not the same thing to "practice" as to "be" a Messianic Jew? None of this matters. Was just curious at the way you word things at times.

I wonder what your thoughts are on this?

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]: Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.

I read into this that as a Christian we are free from ordinances which are only a shadow of things. There are folks around these parts who place weight on the idea of obedience to the Jewish feast days. The Shekel codes seem to infer that most events of magnamious proportion revolve around those feast day dates. I am not pinging you to get an argument going or to underpin you in any way, I just feel led by the Spirit to think you may have a perspective on it...

At the time of Pauls discussion in Colosions there were several sects following Yehoshuah
"Followers of The Way" may celebrate each of those areas of Halacha "good deeds" in a different manner.

It means That if I follow the Hillel calendar and you follow the Karaite calendar then we are not to be divided by our differing practices, which may cause us to observe on different days.

Same with the food issue. If you feel you may eat meat sacrificed to an idol, I am not to judge you personally fit or unfit. There is one Judge Of you and me that is our Messiah and we may not usurp his Judgement seat. I must encourage you to follow what God is telling you to do and you must encourage me to follow what God is telling me to do and we must not be divided on these issues.

The shadow casts a form of what is truly imortant. When we are gathered in the day of the Lord to worship him in spirit and in truth, then God will show us what we all must do in the Real City, On those real feasts. For now the shadows are all we have to know of what is coming. Those feasts that have not yet been fulfilled will reveal to us the Season of Christs return and like a dress rehersal prepare us for the real events to come.

In this case, If you feel that you are not to keep feasts because it is against God's law

And I feel I must keep the feasts according to God's law

Then we are to be at peace with that and encourage one another all the more, for we preach Messiah piered for our transgressions and wounded that we may be healed and restored unto God.

Paul made great distinction between man's laws and burdens and Gods precepts for living.

One must understand that Torah to Paul = God's blueprint for living.
Rabbinic Ordinances were laws to govern civil conducts and were also given for our good. Like we follow a speed limit.

What makes the speed limit such a burden to most people? Lack of Love.
What makes the Feasts such a burden to keep? They do not love them.

Those who love God's Precepts for living, such as written about in Psalm 119, will not have a burden, but a joy. I've always loved studying the Hebrew scriptures and I find no burden in them. What then released Paul from his burden? It was the love he had for the "living Torah" our messiah the torah made flesh.

Messianic Judaism and Messianic Jews are unrelated terms at this present time. The words have grown to mean other things.
It is proper to simply ask if I'm Jewish by birth, which I am not.
If you leave out the by birth part... some may think you are talking spritiual Jews. A term some apply to mean gentiles can be Jewish by just believing. This would be like Ruth.

Feel free to pm me on off topic issues. It keeps the threads easier to follow.
bananna

Hey Bananna,

I want to say thankyou so much for the nice way you have presented this. I see a balance in you that is exemplary, and much needed in today's quest for truth. I marvel at your ability to emphasize "we are to be at peace with that and encourage one another all the more, for we preach Messiah pierced for our transgressions and wounded that we may be healed and restored unto God." For indeed, this is the cenral focus fo each of us...

You have what is for me a unique vocabulary, first "Messianic gentile" and now also "living Torah." I can see how one could get "religious" about that idea, but I also see that one could establish the propriety that Jesus (Messiah) has left us with doctrines to follow...commandments of love and of placing the needs of others ahead of oneself...

Looking forward to rubbing shoulders in the spirit with you over the days ahead...

fervently...

Ah gee thanks,
I've enjoyed reading your comments and thoughts.

The lingo will change brother, probably faster than most of us can keep up with. I tend to get long winded because a simple question tends to bring up the huge number of definitions for one term.... LOL

I'm a Mercy. The primary directive is

Love one another

"1Jo 3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another."

blessings
bananna

"I tend to get long winded because a simple question tends to bring up the huge number of definitions for one term.... "LOL

You've been "reading my mail"

LOL
Was that the one on the multiple difinitions or the one on the prime directive.... tee hee