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fervent
Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive [them], and ye shall have [them].

There is a lot of good preaching in these verses, some to a "mountain" of incredulity. I tend to be one of the "you can have what you say crowd." (within the framework of Godly indulgence) If you don't believe for something, don't get a knot in your face, because it is where and what you believe in that the blessings come. No belief is no faith and therefore it won't (and shouldn't ) matter to you. Further to that, impatience is unbelief. Faith says, "Not 'if,' but 'when, ' and 'when' doesn't matter." Just a confidence which speaks thusly...Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, [even] God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

1Jo 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: 1Jo 5:15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

But just now I want to emphasize something...."What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive [them], and ye shall have [them]."

Pray receiving prayers. It makes a "mountain" of difference.
senteami3
QUOTE(fervent @ Nov 27 2006, 08:48 PM) [snapback]93546[/snapback]

Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive [them], and ye shall have [them].

There is a lot of good preaching in these verses, some to a "mountain" of incredulity. I tend to be one of the "you can have what you say crowd." (within the framework of Godly indulgence) If you don't believe for something, don't get a knot in your face, because it is where and what you believe in that the blessings come. No belief is no faith and therefore it won't (and shouldn't ) matter to you. Further to that, impatience is unbelief. Faith says, "Not 'if,' but 'when, ' and 'when' doesn't matter." Just a confidence which speaks thusly...Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, [even] God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

1Jo 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: 1Jo 5:15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

But just now I want to emphasize something...."What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive [them], and ye shall have [them]."

Pray receiving prayers. It makes a "mountain" of difference.



... But how do you master the faith to believe in things that concern you personally, like believing a tooth will heal??? blush.gif I still have some block about myself, because I think I am being selfish to pray for my toothache, sleep.gif yet I have the faith to pray CHEMTRAILS out, because I feel for the people out there, and the beasts of the fields, and the plants, and I don't wish them any harm... laugh.gif
fervent
QUOTE(senteami3 @ Nov 27 2006, 08:17 PM) [snapback]93551[/snapback]

... But how do you master the faith to believe in things that concern you personally, like believing a tooth will heal??? blush.gif I still have some block about myself, because I think I am being selfish to pray for my toothache, sleep.gif yet I have the faith to pray CHEMTRAILS out, because I feel for the people out there, and the beasts of the fields, and the plants, and I don't wish them any harm... laugh.gif

2Ti 2:6 The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits. 2Ti 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.

Believing for a tooth to heal is something like believing for the river which may pass through your city to be backed uo so you might cross over dry shod, when there is a bridge just over there. God does miracles when miracles are the only way. That is why we have to exercise wisdom in our lives of faith, because God is also in the medical system, and if you want a tooth to be healed and cannot afford it, then it would be more in order to believe the Lord will provide the finances to pay the dentist for it. We believe for the money to pay for it because God is also in the world's financial system. He is not a counterfeiter, so He will lead you to the money from the hand of another who can afford it. Maybe even the dentist himself.
Bananna
QUOTE(senteami3 @ Nov 27 2006, 10:17 PM) [snapback]93551[/snapback]


... But how do you master the faith to believe in things that concern you personally, like believing a tooth will heal??? blush.gif I still have some block about myself, because I think I am being selfish to pray for my toothache, sleep.gif yet I have the faith to pray CHEMTRAILS out, because I feel for the people out there, and the beasts of the fields, and the plants, and I don't wish them any harm... laugh.gif


Senteami3

Then ask for prayer. One of the hardest things for me to get past is "He IS willing" I've always had a can do God. I always used to stumble on the Is He Willing. Then I learned more scripture and relized... when the Leper asked Yehoshuah (Jesus) "Lord if you are willing you may heal me" the answer was yes....
"I will it"

Just like it is hard to see our own sins that are huge sins because they are right up in our eye too cloose to focus on, and we are too busy looking for other's sins, sometimes we just need to ask a preceptive brother or sister to take a look at us an see if that ailment is connected to sin. Think about a tooth. A small crack or hole can be there for years without trouble but as soon as you immune system lets down an infection starts to grow and eat away at the tissue. Heal the infection and the tooth stops decaying. Take more calcium and codliver oil and the bones start to knit and tooth starts to heal.
this is over simplified of course I kept a tooth from being crowned a whole year with cloves, but the filling was keeping the tooth from complete healing and let me tell you... I am so sorry I let them crown it, as it is worse than before.

When will I learn... Others may. I may not - trust in men to help me. Ah well.

"Abba Father,
Maker of Heaven and earth, you care for every sparrow that falls to the grownd, and every blade of grass has its angel that bends over it and whispers, "grow, grow" - We know how much more you care for Sents' tooth. I ask father that you may give Sent's angel charge over that tooth, to bend over it and wisper, "heal, heal" that your name might be glorified and that he might know that You our Father abound in mercy. I ask if there is any sin that impedes his healing that you open his eyes of understanding and he may repent and be restored to you.
I pray in the name of Yehoshuah, by who's wounds we are healed."

Blessings
bananna
C
QUOTE(senteami3 @ Nov 28 2006, 05:17 AM) [snapback]93551[/snapback]


... But how do you master the faith to believe in things that concern you personally, like believing a tooth will heal??? blush.gif I still have some block about myself, because I think I am being selfish to pray for my toothache, sleep.gif yet I have the faith to pray CHEMTRAILS out, because I feel for the people out there, and the beasts of the fields, and the plants, and I don't wish them any harm... laugh.gif


OK so this thread is going to be about your tooth biggrin.gif

Here is my take on it:
1 Peter 2:24
and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.

If we are to trust the Word (which we should smile.gif ) then it says here that your tooth were healed (sorry about the grammar).
But then again if we look at all the promises, they are in the past tense...

(Epe.2:8) for by grace have ye been saved through faith; (1 Pet.2:24) who his own self bare our sins in his body … by whose stripes we were healed; (Col.1:13) who delivered us out of the power of darkness and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love; (2 Cor.5:18) … who reconciled us to himself; (Gal.2:20) I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I that live, but Christ liveth in me; (Gal. 3:13) Christ redeemed us from the curse; (1 Pet.1:3) … the Father … begat us again … by the resurrection of Jesus Christ; (Heb.10:10) We … have been sanctified …; (14) He hath perfected forever them that are sanctified; (Epe.1:3) … who hath blessed us with every spiritual blessing, and God (2 Pet.1:3) hath granted unto us all things

Why the past tense? Maybe God is trying to tell us that it is already a reality with Him (Jesus said "It is finished") and now its up to us to believe the done work and accept it.

So: Let it be according to your faith!
"Calling things which are NOT, as if they WERE. mmmm maybe a clue , because it also shows a past tense...this is the way that God works Himself...calling things as if they WERE.

So the tooth is healed and can only come into your reality, when you actually believe that the Word is true about it. The you have faith and not hope.
Mark 11:24
"Therefore I say to you, all things for which you pray and ask, believe that you have received them, and they will be granted you.
biggrin.gif Praise God, Jesus makes it all too clear here......

Exciting stuff, this faith thing! Kind of opens ones eyes to a whole new world out there....

love C
Humble Bob
Okay C, I'll give it a whirl...

Praise the Lord, Senteami's tooth is healed! And, while I am at it praise the Lord Pamela's back is healed too!
That all these things are already done and in the past. biggrin.gif
C
Ok HB biggrin.gif I do not think a "whirl" is going to do it. It also says "and not doubt in his heart"

Fact is, that once we realise this truth (it is Scriptural and taught by Jesus) then we have to change the way we think in total.
HB, you were saved, when Jesus died for you. There is nothing He must still add or do to get you saved..right? He said: It is finished.

Well, the same with all the other promises...we have to first believe God , (have faith...like Abraham,..him and Sarah was sexually dead, yet God gave a promise and Abraham had to believe it for a long time before it came to pass)
Have a look at what else Jesus said:
Matthew 18:19
Again I tell you, if two of you on earth agree (harmonize together, make a symphony together) about whatever [anything and everything] they may ask, it will come to pass and be done for them by My Father in heaven.
Now either Jesus was lying or we are doing something wrong. I know its not Jesus!
It WILL come to pass.
I do not think this, I KNOW this: We are not moving in faith!!! We are to timid to believe that it is true.
We are full of what-ifs.
So ... what are we going to do????????????????????
C
fervent
QUOTE(Cornelius @ Nov 29 2006, 09:48 AM) [snapback]93740[/snapback]

Ok HB biggrin.gif I do not think a "whirl" is going to do it. It also says "and not doubt in his heart"

Fact is, that once we realise this truth (it is Scriptural and taught by Jesus) then we have to change the way we think in total.
HB, you were saved, when Jesus died for you. There is nothing He must still add or do to get you saved..right? He said: It is finished.

Well, the same with all the other promises...we have to first believe God , (have faith...like Abraham,..him and Sarah was sexually dead, yet God gave a promise and Abraham had to believe it for a long time before it came to pass)
Have a look at what else Jesus said:
Matthew 18:19
Again I tell you, if two of you on earth agree (harmonize together, make a symphony together) about whatever [anything and everything] they may ask, it will come to pass and be done for them by My Father in heaven.
Now either Jesus was lying or we are doing something wrong. I know its not Jesus!
It WILL come to pass.
I do not think this, I KNOW this: We are not moving in faith!!! We are to timid to believe that it is true.
We are full of what-ifs.
So ... what are we going to do????????????????????
C

I was wanting to reply to HB here but was actually at a loss short term as to a reply of words. This reply from "C" quite does nicely...The truth is inherently ours to have and to hold...even all of our spiritual and earthly realities. And so in that revelation knowledge of faith we must simply come to "believing we receive" is within our grasp.

Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Joh 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give [it] you.

Out of the mouth of two or three witnesses let everything be established. I am going on a spiritual makeover and renewal right now because of this in Jesus name. As I exchange my spiritual doldrums for the spiritual reality of "I have it now" (whatsoever I shall ask in His name) then I believe I receive it according to the words of faith of my redeemer, who ever liveth to make intercessions for me after the power of an endless life. I am about to explode. I have preached myself happy. May one and all come to the waters, even as one who needs a thirst to be quenched will come to the wateringhole of faith and be replenished every whit.
C
Praise the Lord for He is good! smile.gif
Here is one key to open the promises with:

Mark 11:24
"Therefore I say to you, all things for which you pray and ask, believe that you have received them, and they will be granted you.

love C
Humble Bob
T'is an interesting thing that faith is. My belief is from a word uttered from my mouth, my thought that backs it is the one that commanded my lips to move, my tongue to form the inflextion, my diaphram to exhale a breath and my vocal cords to draw taught.

But my thought also battles my heart. Does this mean the heart without doubt is at peace? I would confess my heart aches when I pray asking God for a miracle. It is there, but is this doubt? Ask me and again my mouth utters words with my thought backing them.

Am I a liar? Let God tell me himself and I will certainly wail and repent. But then, that is the strangest thing about God.

Matthew 6:30
Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

Matthew 8:26
And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.

Matthew 14:31
And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

Matthew 16:8
Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?

Luke 12:28
If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?

Luke 19:17
And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.


For the Word of God is just that and when spoken it is always the truth. It bears the weight of a command to make things happen, and if not at that moment then certainly later.

"O ye of little faith" was the Word of God spoken in fullfillment of what is the truth. That they who had little faith was so that God would show his works and that he be glorified. Christ spoke as if it were commanded and his words bore the result of the truth the same when he commanded the fig tree to never bear fruit.

For God to say to me "O ye of little faith" would bear the truth that I could not deny, and it would be so as the Word of God is always. It would make it be as the Word of God IS that power to make all things be or not.

I believe still in Christ and believe he shall or has fullfilled my prayers, until the Lord commands to me "O ye of little faith"
C

Matthew 8:26
And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.

Matthew 14:31
And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

Matthew 16:8
Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?

I think the answer to your question are in the red quotes.
When we are to move in faith (say for instance healing) we are sometimes fearful (that it will not come to pass) ..that makes us a little faith and a lot pf fear.
Doubt.....he that doubts not in his heart...........that would also cause us to have little faith

and the biggest of them all: Reason..that happens a lot on a forum smile.gif We reason us out of faith and into fear and into doubt.

Now the question would be : How do we get to be of BIG faith biggrin.gif
I do have an answer for you...but now I am off to work and I will post it later.
love C
fervent
QUOTE
For God to say to me "O ye of little faith" would bear the truth that I could not deny, and it would be so as the Word of God is always. It would make it be as the Word of God IS that power to make all things be or not.


QUOTE
From "Jesus I Have A Problem With You" By Humble Bob

Jesus, I have a problem with you. I have been lacking faith, thinking to leave you

Because, the faithful are scorned while the unbeliever prosper.

Because, I am waiting and waiting and only half of my prayers are answered

...the other half unanswered.

Because, I am out of oil and it hurts to carry the cross in me when others I love don't care.

Because, I feel alone and when I turn to you I don't hear you or see you and feel even more alone.

Because, I am mad at you that I believe you are in control and I feel I am holding a bag of bounty believing it is full when it is empty.

But Jesus, I believe there is not a hair out of place on your head, and your love is immense. Your mercy so deep for me that my foolish thinking dimminishes in your eyes. That I might leave you, but you will never leave me because the cross can never be undone.

Jesus don't change in the slightest but instead change me, but until then I am hurt and mad and still have a problem with you. Don't let me let go!Love with saddness HB


Heb 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

If we read that word about "little faith" in a season of little faith, our heart will convict us of the fact of it and it will be so even for us as it was for the disciples in the storm. For a storm that would capsize the ship of our faith will always be present in our lives, as we are called to endure a great fight of affliction and of endurance even unto the end of our faith and the salvation of our souls.

But God is graceful and He knows that the very stretching of our faith is like the first wailing cries of a newborn infant as it seeks to inhale a chamber of breath to start the endless stream of breath that must needs be effected if that babe is to live and to endure a life of living.

So too, our faith must be drawn in and exhaled with a steady rhythm and regularity for it to continually fill us with new spiritual oxygen that our spiritual cells may be nourished up in the word of God, for that is how oxygen gets into the blood, and it is how the word gets into our spirits and and the life is in the blood....firstly in that natural way that our lives continue because of the flow of that blood in our veins and more perfectly because of the flow of that blood which was in His veins and which flowed to thy ground in order that we might be given His life.
C
Matthew 6:30
Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
Matthew 8:26
And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.

Matthew 14:31
And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

Matthew 16:8
Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?

I think the answer to your question are in the red quotes.
The first scripture is describing a lack of knowledge of the character of God...a lack of trust in Who He says He is.
When we are to move in faith (say for instance healing) we are sometimes fearful (that it will not come to pass) ..that makes us of little faith and a lot of fear.
Doubt.....he that doubts not in his heart...........that would also cause us to have little faith

and the biggest of them all: Reason..that happens a lot on a forum smile.gif We reason us out of faith and into fear and into doubt.

Can you see that faith is not reason? One cannot reason it...how does one reason a miracle? biggrin.gif
or doubt a miracle and bring it to pass, or fear it in order to bring it to pass?



Now the question would be : How do we get to be of BIG faith biggrin.gif
I do have an answer for you...but now I am off to work and I will post it later.
love C
fervent
QUOTE(Cornelius @ Nov 29 2006, 10:57 PM) [snapback]93828[/snapback]

Matthew 6:30
Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
Matthew 8:26
And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.

Matthew 14:31
And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

Matthew 16:8
Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?

I think the answer to your question are in the red quotes.
The first scripture is describing a lack of knowledge of the character of God...a lack of trust in Who He says He is.
When we are to move in faith (say for instance healing) we are sometimes fearful (that it will not come to pass) ..that makes us of little faith and a lot of fear.
Doubt.....he that doubts not in his heart...........that would also cause us to have little faith

and the biggest of them all: Reason..that happens a lot on a forum smile.gif We reason us out of faith and into fear and into doubt.

Can you see that faith is not reason? One cannot reason it...how does one reason a miracle? biggrin.gif
or doubt a miracle and bring it to pass, or fear it in order to bring it to pass?



Now the question would be : How do we get to be of BIG faith biggrin.gif
I do have an answer for you...but now I am off to work and I will post it later.
love C

I would say that big faith is generated by big love, for faith worketh by love...(Gal 5:6)
George
QUOTE(fervent @ Nov 27 2006, 06:48 PM) [snapback]93546[/snapback]

Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive [them], and ye shall have [them].

There is a lot of good preaching in these verses, some to a "mountain" of incredulity. I tend to be one of the "you can have what you say crowd." (within the framework of Godly indulgence) If you don't believe for something, don't get a knot in your face, because it is where and what you believe in that the blessings come. No belief is no faith and therefore it won't (and shouldn't ) matter to you. Further to that, impatience is unbelief. Faith says, "Not 'if,' but 'when, ' and 'when' doesn't matter." Just a confidence which speaks thusly...Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, [even] God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

1Jo 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: 1Jo 5:15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

But just now I want to emphasize something...."What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive [them], and ye shall have [them]."

Pray receiving prayers. It makes a "mountain" of difference.


There is a group of people that are believing and doing the same things worshiping the "Law of attraction" instead of God. Based on the same principals that Christ taught, only leaving Christ out of it. They have developed faith in what they believe is a law of the universe. Most of them are wealthy beyond measure and have what ever things they want. It is really sad when a group of "man" worshipers can develope a way to have more faith in what is not God than God's children have in Him.
Notice How quickly faith will work if you do not doubt. The fig tree died imediatly. Christ said you can say to this mulberry tree, 'Be pulled up by the roots and be planted in the sea,. "and It would obey you". That is an emediate responce. The key is in another scripture that at first glance does not seem to have much to do with the topic at hand. But truly I tell you "it is the key".



Matthew 17
21 However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting."
Mark 9
29 So He said to them, "This kind can come out by nothing but prayer and fasting."
Luke 17
6 So the Lord said, "If you have faith as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, 'Be pulled up by the roots and be planted in the sea,' and it would obey you.
C
Hi Godsloft, and welcome, please carry on and explain how you see the relationship in the scriptures you have mentioned..

The faith I am talking about is not the "name-it -and -claim-it" faith. I am talking about the promises of God.
Faith in the fact that we have been healed by His stripes, that our needs are met,we have been sanctified, sin has no dominion over us etc.
If we believe that we have died, been crucified with Christ, then He now lives in us, by faith. I have the mind of Christ, and I trust and believe that God will place His will IN me, so that I will not will anything against His will.....biggrin.gif lot of wills
I have surrendered my will, belongings, career, ...all to Him...including my life...By faith I believe that He will guide me .He is sovereign and so I pray that He will cause my heart to be turned towards Him in all things, that He will place His desires in me and allow me to walk in His ways.

So HB, when I need faith, I ask for it. I pray (ask and ye shall receive) for faith and receive it. Done.
Its a gift, but we each also have a portion, it can be exercised, it can grow, it is tested, its worth more that gold.

I will tell you that its also a journey. I know this only from experience. You pray it out with God, you ask for it, you ask for understanding, you ask for a pure heart.
I really prayed and continued (I am still in that process) to ask God to teach me real faith...faith that pleases Him.
I am not interested in wealth...I have my needs met with some left over.I believe that we should share with our brothers and sisters in need ...look around and help where we can. God will always help the helper to help.

Oh before I forget, I was thinking today: Faith is believing God, not just believing IN God.
Abraham believed God and it was accounted as righteousness to him.

HB,I found it is as simple as: When God says, when two agree it shall be done...then we must decide to believe God (righteousness) or not.The we have to STAND, while we see nothing and still believe God, because He is truth.I think the standing is the patience that the Bible talks about smile.gif it exercises our faith.

mmmm, I am rambling on without much scripture backup, forgive me. I will get back to scripture.

Godsloft...I am interested in what you have to share with us
C
fervent
QUOTE(Godsloft.com @ Nov 30 2006, 04:05 AM) [snapback]93834[/snapback]

QUOTE(fervent @ Nov 27 2006, 06:48 PM) [snapback]93546[/snapback]

Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive [them], and ye shall have [them].

There is a lot of good preaching in these verses, some to a "mountain" of incredulity. I tend to be one of the "you can have what you say crowd." (within the framework of Godly indulgence) If you don't believe for something, don't get a knot in your face, because it is where and what you believe in that the blessings come. No belief is no faith and therefore it won't (and shouldn't ) matter to you. Further to that, impatience is unbelief. Faith says, "Not 'if,' but 'when, ' and 'when' doesn't matter." Just a confidence which speaks thusly...Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, [even] God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

1Jo 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: 1Jo 5:15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

But just now I want to emphasize something...."What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive [them], and ye shall have [them]."

Pray receiving prayers. It makes a "mountain" of difference.


There is a group of people that are believing and doing the same things worshiping the "Law of attraction" instead of God. Based on the same principals that Christ taught, only leaving Christ out of it. They have developed faith in what they believe is a law of the universe. Most of them are wealthy beyond measure and have what ever things they want. It is really sad when a group of "man" worshipers can develope a way to have more faith in what is not God than God's children have in Him.
Notice How quickly faith will work if you do not doubt. The fig tree died imediatly. Christ said you can say to this mulberry tree, 'Be pulled up by the roots and be planted in the sea,. "and It would obey you". That is an emediate responce. The key is in another scripture that at first glance does not seem to have much to do with the topic at hand. But truly I tell you "it is the key".



Matthew 17
21 However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting."
Mark 9
29 So He said to them, "This kind can come out by nothing but prayer and fasting."
Luke 17
6 So the Lord said, "If you have faith as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, 'Be pulled up by the roots and be planted in the sea,' and it would obey you.


I certainly concur with your astute observations there newbie Godsloft. There is a thing to be reckoned with however. Spiritual laws are laws. That means they will work for anyone. It also means they will work against anyone. The fact is that as a good standard of measurement, a righteous man will fall to the earth from a pinnacle as readily as a wicked man will, for gravity is an inescapable law. In like manner, prosperity laws are laws. That means they work when they are applied. Even a worldly man may give to a thing and there will be a harvest from it. A drunkard can scatter apple seed on the ground and some of it will take root and grow. So also will his money. The rain falls upon both the just and the unjust. The laws of prosperity are reflective laws and that means those same laws can bring poverty and lack.

Wisdom is the right application of knowledge. The event into which you speak appears to be the common thrust of anyone who has a latent indignation for those who believe in what is after all a word of Christ, "he shall have whatsoever he saith." (Mark 11:23 in part) But that is between an individual and God as to how the relationship unfolds. It says in 1 Kings 8:35 When heaven is shut up, and there is no rain, because they have sinned against thee; if they pray toward this place, and confess thy name, and turn from their sin, when thou afflictest them: 1Ki 8:36 Then hear thou in heaven, and forgive the sin of thy servants, and of thy people Israel, that thou teach them the good way wherein they should walk, and give rain upon thy land, which thou hast given to thy people for an inheritance.

I think that having what you say is grounded as a point of law which works to build and also to destroy. For it also says in the word of God Pro 18:20 A man's belly shall be satisfied with the fruit of his mouth; [and] with the increase of his lips shall he be filled. Pro 18:21 Death and life [are] in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.

I try to be found wanting in no good thing. Psa 84:11 For the LORD God [is] a sun and shield: the LORD will give grace and glory: no good [thing] will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.
Humble Bob
QUOTE(fervent @ Nov 30 2006, 01:56 AM) [snapback]93827[/snapback]

QUOTE
For God to say to me "O ye of little faith" would bear the truth that I could not deny, and it would be so as the Word of God is always. It would make it be as the Word of God IS that power to make all things be or not.


QUOTE
From "Jesus I Have A Problem With You" By Humble Bob

Jesus, I have a problem with you. I have been lacking faith, thinking to leave you

Because, the faithful are scorned while the unbeliever prosper.

Because, I am waiting and waiting and only half of my prayers are answered

...the other half unanswered.

Because, I am out of oil and it hurts to carry the cross in me when others I love don't care.

Because, I feel alone and when I turn to you I don't hear you or see you and feel even more alone.

Because, I am mad at you that I believe you are in control and I feel I am holding a bag of bounty believing it is full when it is empty.

But Jesus, I believe there is not a hair out of place on your head, and your love is immense. Your mercy so deep for me that my foolish thinking dimminishes in your eyes. That I might leave you, but you will never leave me because the cross can never be undone.

Jesus don't change in the slightest but instead change me, but until then I am hurt and mad and still have a problem with you. Don't let me let go!Love with saddness HB


Heb 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

If we read that word about "little faith" in a season of little faith, our heart will convict us of the fact of it and it will be so even for us as it was for the disciples in the storm. For a storm that would capsize the ship of our faith will always be present in our lives, as we are called to endure a great fight of affliction and of endurance even unto the end of our faith and the salvation of our souls.

But God is graceful and He knows that the very stretching of our faith is like the first wailing cries of a newborn infant as it seeks to inhale a chamber of breath to start the endless stream of breath that must needs be effected if that babe is to live and to endure a life of living.

So too, our faith must be drawn in and exhaled with a steady rhythm and regularity for it to continually fill us with new spiritual oxygen that our spiritual cells may be nourished up in the word of God, for that is how oxygen gets into the blood, and it is how the word gets into our spirits and and the life is in the blood....firstly in that natural way that our lives continue because of the flow of that blood in our veins and more perfectly because of the flow of that blood which was in His veins and which flowed to thy ground in order that we might be given His life.


For me, my faith rounded the Cape when I read C's post. It makes a lot of sense to me and it has put pep in my stride with Christ. wub.gif

I still want to see him, though wink.gif

IPB Image
C
HB, I wanted to still post in this thread, but this morning I sense a "halt" in the Spirit.
I will honour that . I know that the Lord will continue what He has started to reveal to all of us.
Godsloft, I am however still interested to hear your side as well. (I am not implying that we stop talking in this thread.)
I will just say, that it seems that door is opening in the spirit, as even around me here in SA, people are starting to "get it". Its the Lord Himself that is waking us up, ...me included.
Praise Him!!!
love C
George
QUOTE(Cornelius @ Nov 30 2006, 05:31 AM) [snapback]93846[/snapback]

Hi Godsloft, and welcome, please carry on and explain how you see the relationship in the scriptures you have mentioned..

The faith I am talking about is not the "name-it -and -claim-it" faith. I am talking about the promises of God.
Faith in the fact that we have been healed by His stripes, that our needs are met,we have been sanctified, sin has no dominion over us etc.
If we believe that we have died, been crucified with Christ, then He now lives in us, by faith. I have the mind of Christ, and I trust and believe that God will place His will IN me, so that I will not will anything against His will.....biggrin.gif lot of wills
I have surrendered my will, belongings, career, ...all to Him...including my life...By faith I believe that He will guide me .He is sovereign and so I pray that He will cause my heart to be turned towards Him in all things, that He will place His desires in me and allow me to walk in His ways.

So HB, when I need faith, I ask for it. I pray (ask and ye shall receive) for faith and receive it. Done.
Its a gift, but we each also have a portion, it can be exercised, it can grow, it is tested, its worth more that gold.

I will tell you that its also a journey. I know this only from experience. You pray it out with God, you ask for it, you ask for understanding, you ask for a pure heart.
I really prayed and continued (I am still in that process) to ask God to teach me real faith...faith that pleases Him.
I am not interested in wealth...I have my needs met with some left over.I believe that we should share with our brothers and sisters in need ...look around and help where we can. God will always help the helper to help.

Oh before I forget, I was thinking today: Faith is believing God, not just believing IN God.
Abraham believed God and it was accounted as righteousness to him.

HB,I found it is as simple as: When God says, when two agree it shall be done...then we must decide to believe God (righteousness) or not.The we have to STAND, while we see nothing and still believe God, because He is truth.I think the standing is the patience that the Bible talks about smile.gif it exercises our faith.

mmmm, I am rambling on without much scripture backup, forgive me. I will get back to scripture.

Godsloft...I am interested in what you have to share with us
C


Greetings Cornelius
Forty days and forty nights seems to be the number of days of prayer and fasting that it takes to aquire the faith that Christ jesus had and taught. It seems to be a prime number between all of the powerfull men of God.


Matthew 17
21 However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting."

Moses
Exodus 34
28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Elijah
1 kings
8 So he arose, and ate and drank; and he went in the strength of that food forty days and forty nights as far as Horeb, the mountain of God.

Christ
Matthew 4
2 And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry.



It is also the number of days that the Lord required of Nineveh to sit in sackcloth and not eat or drink anything to not be destroyed.

4 And Jonah began to enter the city on the first day's walk. Then he cried out and said, "Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!"
5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest to the least of them.
6 Then word came to the king of Nineveh; and he arose from his throne and laid aside his robe, covered himself with sackcloth and sat in ashes.
7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published throughout Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything; do not let them eat, or drink water.
8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily to God; yes, let every one turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands.
9 Who can tell if God will turn and relent, and turn away from His fierce anger, so that we may not perish?
C

I can see me without food, but not water biggrin.gif It has to be a supernatural fast, ordained by God!
Exodus 34
28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water.

I think, the "with the Lord" makes it possible.
I know that 40 is the number for trial as well. 40 years in the wilderness etc.
So yes, it is an important factor (fasting and prayer) I must admit that the 40 day fast seems to me so out of reach. I know people who have done it repeatedly...the one guy I know even goes without sleep (last I saw him, he was without food and sleep, for 30 days and looking OK-ish...but he drank water)
The one disturbing factor about this guy though is that he has now moved into huge error and taken his congregation with him. They are walking around claiming huge houses for themselves, so when Jesus "raptures the sinners out of the world" they can move into these beautiful homes.For the righteous "shall inherit the earth"

OK, but that is besides the point. Fasting is of the Lord , and so is prayer.
Error comes through our own hearts.
C
Humble Bob
QUOTE(Cornelius @ Dec 1 2006, 01:40 AM) [snapback]93972[/snapback]

HB, I wanted to still post in this thread, but this morning I sense a "halt" in the Spirit.
I will honour that . I know that the Lord will continue what He has started to reveal to all of us.
Godsloft, I am however still interested to hear your side as well. (I am not implying that we stop talking in this thread.)
I will just say, that it seems that door is opening in the spirit, as even around me here in SA, people are starting to "get it". Its the Lord Himself that is waking us up, ...me included.
Praise Him!!!
love C


...it's all about God's timing, C. He has even shut the mouths of lions, so what is a lion to do but to keep it's mouth shut... happy.gif wink.gif
fervent
QUOTE(Cornelius @ Dec 1 2006, 10:35 PM) [snapback]94103[/snapback]

I can see me without food, but not water biggrin.gif It has to be a supernatural fast, ordained by God!
Exodus 34
28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water.

I think, the "with the Lord" makes it possible.
I know that 40 is the number for trial as well. 40 years in the wilderness etc.
So yes, it is an important factor (fasting and prayer) I must admit that the 40 day fast seems to me so out of reach. I know people who have done it repeatedly...the one guy I know even goes without sleep (last I saw him, he was without food and sleep, for 30 days and looking OK-ish...but he drank water)
The one disturbing factor about this guy though is that he has now moved into huge error and taken his congregation with him. They are walking around claiming huge houses for themselves, so when Jesus "raptures the sinners out of the world" they can move into these beautiful homes.For the righteous "shall inherit the earth"

OK, but that is besides the point. Fasting is of the Lord , and so is prayer.
Error comes through our own hearts.
C

"I can see me without food, but not water" biggrin.gif

In the Spirit we see with our ears. Many of us speak with our eyes, but that is lost here. We can also hear with our hearts. But that is also lost here, for no one knows with what we see or hear through a keyboard save it be we reveal it through our written words, which appear to be more of a litanic monotone by nature of this medium. I am not able to fast like that either. Error is all around us.
George
QUOTE(Cornelius @ Dec 1 2006, 09:35 PM) [snapback]94103[/snapback]

I can see me without food, but not water biggrin.gif It has to be a supernatural fast, ordained by God!
Exodus 34
28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water.

I think, the "with the Lord" makes it possible.
I know that 40 is the number for trial as well. 40 years in the wilderness etc.
So yes, it is an important factor (fasting and prayer) I must admit that the 40 day fast seems to me so out of reach. I know people who have done it repeatedly...the one guy I know even goes without sleep (last I saw him, he was without food and sleep, for 30 days and looking OK-ish...but he drank water)
The one disturbing factor about this guy though is that he has now moved into huge error and taken his congregation with him. They are walking around claiming huge houses for themselves, so when Jesus "raptures the sinners out of the world" they can move into these beautiful homes.For the righteous "shall inherit the earth"

OK, but that is besides the point. Fasting is of the Lord , and so is prayer.
Error comes through our own hearts.
C


Greetings Cornelius
It takes study and prayer to understand the proper motivation for a fast like this. Many have fasted and prayed even longer than 40 days with the wrong motivation, with misunderstanding guiding them. Needless to say that kind of prayer and fasting is just something to do. It accomplishes nothing.
I know from experience.
Then the Lord revealed to me the simple truth that you spoke in your post. The men of God are there with God and for God and nothing else. They are with God trusting in Him with no other place to go or no other thing to do. Nothing else to go back to and nothing else in mind, no one to impress. When you go with total trust forsaking all else. Then is when the Lord will answer you.



Isaiah 58
3 'Why have we fasted,' they say, 'and You have not seen? Why have we afflicted our souls, and You take no notice?' "In fact, in the day of your fast you find pleasure, And exploit all your laborers.
4 Indeed you fast for strife and debate, And to strike with the fist of wickedness. You will not fast as you do this day, To make your voice heard on high.
5 Is it a fast that I have chosen, A day for a man to afflict his soul? Is it to bow down his head like a bulrush, And to spread out sackcloth and ashes? Would you call this a fast, And an acceptable day to the Lord?
6 "Is this not the fast that I have chosen: To loose the bonds of wickedness, To undo the heavy burdens, To let the oppressed go free, And that you break every yoke?
7 Is it not to share your bread with the hungry, And that you bring to your house the poor who are cast out; When you see the naked, that you cover him, And not hide yourself from your own flesh?


C
Maybe you can start a thread on fasting? Just an idea. It will be good to get some good teaching on fasting on the forum...it seems like it a subject that is close to your heart. It is a little understood subject and I would like to get to know more myself.
I understand the scripture you quoted above to mean, that God prefers us to be in practical Christianity, rather than fasting for show. But I know that there is still a place for the fast. Its humbling and I like what you say about it:
QUOTE
They are with God trusting in Him with no other place to go or no other thing to do. Nothing else to go back to and nothing else in mind, no one to impress. When you go with total trust forsaking all else. Then is when the Lord will answer you.


It rings in my spirit and I know that is such a good place to be!
Praise God
in Christ
C

AGAPEaNg
CHRISTIAN PERFECTION

"Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect. . . ." Philippians 3:12

It is a snare to imagine that God wants to make us perfect specimens of what He can do; God's purpose is to make us one with Himself. The emphasis of holiness movements is apt to be that God is producing specimens of holiness to put in His museum. If you go off on this idea of personal holiness, the dead-set of your life will not be for God, but for what you call the manifestation of God in your life. "It can never be God's will that I should be sick." If it was God's will to bruise His own Son, why should He not bruise you? The thing that tells for God is not your relevant consistency to an idea of what a saint should be, but your real vital relation to Jesus Christ, and your abandonment to Him whether you are well or ill.

Christian perfection is not, and never can be, human perfection. Christian perfection is the perfection of a relationship to God which shows itself amid the irrelevancies of human life. When you obey the call of Jesus Christ, the first thing that strikes you is the irrelevancy of the things you have to do, and the next thing that strikes you is the fact that other people seem to be living perfectly consistent lives. Such lives are apt to leave you with the idea that God is unnecessary, by human effort and devotion we can reach the standard God wants. In a fallen world this can never be done. I am called to live in perfect relation to God so that my life produces a longing after God in other lives, not admiration for myself. Thoughts about myself hinder my usefulness to God. God is not after perfecting me to be a specimen in His show-room; He is getting me to the place where He can use me. Let Him do what He likes.

http://www.myutmost.org/index.html
C
The true free Gospel

God cannot fail, but we can hinder his works with our own. Jesus told his disciples, “beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees” (Mt.16:6). They understood this to mean their teaching (verse 12). Their teaching that was so dangerous was salvation by self works (Gal.2:16; 5:1-6). In explaining this in Mt.16:9,10 Jesus said, “Do you not perceive, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets (12) you took up? Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets (7) you took up?” Notice, the more loaves they provided of their own supply, the less were fed and the less baskets of leftovers there were. Jesus' obvious point was the more you work the less God works. Salvation in any form is by grace, which is unmerited or unearned. “For by grace have ye been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, that no man should glory.” (Epe.2:8-9). The word “saved” here is translated from the Greek word “sozo” and is used in Lk.7:50 for the saving of the soul. In Lk.8:48 it is translated “made the whole” for healing of the body. In Lk.8:36 it is translated “made whole” for deliverance from demons. In Mt.8:25 it is translated “save” for protection from danger. You see, “saved” covers every curse, and it is not of our works. Jesus “became a curse for us” so that we might have “the blessing of Abraham” (Gal.3:13,14). The all-inclusive curse in Dt.28 was put upon him. I remind you that Epe.2:8 says in the original Greek: “by grace have ye been saved,” meaning it happened at the cross.



The wilderness is a completely safe and secure place for the “believer” because everything has already been provided there. Our faith in the promises is the very substance that the desired need is made from. (Heb.11:1) Now faith is assurance (or substance) of [things] hoped for, a conviction of things not seen. The reason Jesus said, “All things whatsoever ye pray and ask for, believe that ye receive (Greek: “received”) them, and ye shall have them” (Mk.11:24), is because all of our provision was accomplished at the cross. Notice in the following verses that all things have been received and that the only thing left is for us to believe it. Also notice the past tense of our sacrificial provision in the following verses: (Epe.2:8) for by grace have ye been saved through faith; (1 Pet.2:24) who his own self bare our sins in his body .. by whose stripes we were healed; (Col.1:13) who delivered us out of the power of darkness and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love; (2 Cor.5:18) ... who reconciled us to himself; (Gal.2:20) I have been crucified with Christ, and it's no longer I that live, but Christ liveth in me; (Gal. 3:13) Christ redeemed us from the curse; (1 Pet.1:3) ... the Father . . . begat us again ... by the resurrection of Jesus Christ; (Heb.10:10) We ... have been sanctified ... ; (14) He hath perfected forever them that are sanctified; (Epe.1:3) ... who hath blessed us with every spiritual blessing, and God (2 Pet.1:3) hath granted unto us all things ... Jesus told us in his day which, of course, is also in the past that “Now shall the prince of this world be cast out” (Jn.12:31); “but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world” (Jn.16:33); “It is finished” (Jn.19:30). This is why we are to believe we have received. The devil and the curse were conquered. We were saved, healed, delivered, and provided for. That is why Paul said “my God shall supply every need of yours according to his riches in glory in Christ Jesus (Phl.4:19).



Redemption from the curse and provision for life is truly accomplished at the cross! In fact, God’s “works were finished from the foundation of the world” (Heb.4:3), when He spoke the plan into existence. The only thing left is for the true sons of God to enter into those works by faith, believing they have received. Since the works are finished, we should believe and rest from our own works to save, heal, and deliver ourselves. This is rest in the wilderness on the grounds of God’s promises. (Heb.4:3) For we who have believed do enter into that rest. That is a spiritual Sabbath rest. (Heb.4:9) There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest (Greek: sabbatismos, “keeping of rest”) for the people of God. This constant “keeping of rest” every day through the past tense promises is our New Testament spiritual Sabbath. (10) For he that is entered into his rest hath himself also rested from his works, as God did from his. This rest is to believe these past tense promises.



(Heb.4:1) Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. (2) For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard.

link
Miche
Thank you Fervant for this timely message.

I don't want to be impatient.......... waiting for my marraige restoration.

I want to please the Lord through faith.


fervent
QUOTE(Miche @ Dec 2 2006, 03:21 PM) [snapback]94169[/snapback]

Thank you fervent for this timely message.

I don't want to be impatient.......... waiting for my marraige restoration.

I want to please the Lord through faith.

As hard as it is to accept. impatience is unbelief. Stalwart warriors of God and of the faith of the Lord Jesus Christ must always reside in the higher praises of our God and King and in the extreme anticipation of His miracle working power for He alone has said Isa 59:19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.

I believe with you for your miracle and I stand with you upon the promises of God, for He is able to do all that He said and more.

Isa 40:28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, [that] the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? [there is] no searching of his understanding. Isa 40:29 He giveth power to the faint; and to [them that have] no might he increaseth strength. Isa 40:30 Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall utterly fall: Isa 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew [their] strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; [and] they shall walk, and not faint.

1Th 5:11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.
fervent
QUOTE(AGAPEaNg @ Dec 2 2006, 09:21 AM) [snapback]94141[/snapback]

Christian perfection is not, and never can be, human perfection. Christian perfection is the perfection of a relationship to God which shows itself amid the irrelevancies of human life. When you obey the call of Jesus Christ, the first thing that strikes you is the irrelevancy of the things you have to do, and the next thing that strikes you is the fact that other people seem to be living perfectly consistent lives. Such lives are apt to leave you with the idea that God is unnecessary, by human effort and devotion we can reach the standard God wants. In a fallen world this can never be done. I am called to live in perfect relation to God so that my life produces a longing after God in other lives, not admiration for myself. Thoughts about myself hinder my usefulness to God. God is not after perfecting me to be a specimen in His show-room; He is getting me to the place where He can use me. Let Him do what He likes.


Admirable words, and truth for the hearer. "Christian perfection is not, and never can be, human perfection" Exactly why God and Jesus ratified a New Covenant written in His Own blood...for man had no part in it....why? Because if he did it would be abased quickly enough, even as that which was granted Adam and Eve in the dawn of man was rent asunder by the snare of the fowler.
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