Full Version: Soul Sleep
What’s up with this soul sleep doctrine?
Soul Sleep refers to the idea that when we die, our souls cease to exist or at least "fall asleep" and become totally inert, until the resurrection.
However, in Matthew 17:1-5 NKJV, we read:
Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves; and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light. And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, let us make here three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!”
Now, this was kind of difficult for Moses to do if he was "dead" in his grave, still waiting to come to life again through Christ Jesus, don't you think? Moses died; yet, he showed up at the Mount of Transfiguration. Was he not sleeping? Some may argue that God had resurrected Moses, however, the scriptures tell us that Jesus is the first to have been raised from death – never to die again. All others before him who had been broth back to life died. Thus, Moses showed up with Elijah while he had not yet been resurrected. That in itself proves that the doctrine of soul sleep is false.
Still not convince? Not a problem… The scriptures are rich on the subject.
Revelation 6:9-10 NKJV
When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
The bible is saying that martyrs go to heaven before the judgment. Note that this takes place before the resurrection, before the end of the world, before the judgment, while life is going on as usual on the earth. Also, the martyrs, despite being "dead", have their own memories, and remember that they have been martyred. So to say that these martyrs "know nothing" (Ecclesiastes 9:5) in the sense of being unconscious, or something like that, would be incorrect. As a matter of fact, Ecclesiastes is simply a book of Hebrew poetry and should not be taken literally. It’s also simply a book of mans lamentations. Some who take this book literally have wondered from the faith and have come to believe that God (The Son) was created.
Moving on…
2 Corinthians 5:8 (New King James Version)
We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
In other words, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Now, you would have to admit that those who have passed on are at home with the Lord, and what’s more, that they haven’t simply vanished into nothingness. Thus the word "sleep" in this context is intended to apply to our physical bodies.
Paul also said in Philippians 1:21-23, “For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far;
If Paul died he would "depart." Where would he go? He says he would go to be with Christ. Where is Christ? In heaven. Was Paul only speaking of the resurrection at which time he would be with Christ? No, because there will be no departing to be with Christ at the resurrection.
Revelation 13:6 NKJV
Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven.
So those who have fallen asleep (meaning their bodies) are dwelling in heaven, at home with the Lord. Present and completely aware of their surroundings!
Look it up for yourselves.
However, in Matthew 17:1-5 NKJV, we read:
Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves; and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light. And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, let us make here three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!”
Now, this was kind of difficult for Moses to do if he was "dead" in his grave, still waiting to come to life again through Christ Jesus, don't you think? Moses died; yet, he showed up at the Mount of Transfiguration. Was he not sleeping? Some may argue that God had resurrected Moses, however, the scriptures tell us that Jesus is the first to have been raised from death – never to die again. All others before him who had been broth back to life died. Thus, Moses showed up with Elijah while he had not yet been resurrected. That in itself proves that the doctrine of soul sleep is false.
Still not convince? Not a problem… The scriptures are rich on the subject.
Revelation 6:9-10 NKJV
When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
The bible is saying that martyrs go to heaven before the judgment. Note that this takes place before the resurrection, before the end of the world, before the judgment, while life is going on as usual on the earth. Also, the martyrs, despite being "dead", have their own memories, and remember that they have been martyred. So to say that these martyrs "know nothing" (Ecclesiastes 9:5) in the sense of being unconscious, or something like that, would be incorrect. As a matter of fact, Ecclesiastes is simply a book of Hebrew poetry and should not be taken literally. It’s also simply a book of mans lamentations. Some who take this book literally have wondered from the faith and have come to believe that God (The Son) was created.
Moving on…
2 Corinthians 5:8 (New King James Version)
We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
In other words, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Now, you would have to admit that those who have passed on are at home with the Lord, and what’s more, that they haven’t simply vanished into nothingness. Thus the word "sleep" in this context is intended to apply to our physical bodies.
Paul also said in Philippians 1:21-23, “For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far;
If Paul died he would "depart." Where would he go? He says he would go to be with Christ. Where is Christ? In heaven. Was Paul only speaking of the resurrection at which time he would be with Christ? No, because there will be no departing to be with Christ at the resurrection.
Revelation 13:6 NKJV
Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven.
So those who have fallen asleep (meaning their bodies) are dwelling in heaven, at home with the Lord. Present and completely aware of their surroundings!
Look it up for yourselves.
"Ecclesiastes" is known as the "Book of natural man"; (man who has not received God's revelation; the unsaved" 
I used to think along the lines of this book...
(That was, of course, before I got born again) 
I used to think along the lines of this book...
(That was, of course, before I got born again)
QUOTE
2 Corinthians 5:8 (New King James Version)
We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
In other words, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Now, you would have to admit that those who have passed on are at home with the Lord, and what’s more, that they haven’t simply vanished into nothingness.
We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
In other words, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Now, you would have to admit that those who have passed on are at home with the Lord, and what’s more, that they haven’t simply vanished into nothingness.
Hey Jack dear brother, I think we finally have something we agree on.
This is a great post.
Thankyou.
QUOTE(His love abides @ Nov 18 2006, 04:36 PM) [snapback]92312[/snapback]
Hey Jack dear brother, I think we finally have something we agree on.
This is a great post.
Thankyou.
Ah, you gotta tell me that we also agree that God has a Son.
Reason being is that we can disagree on all kinds of doctrines, but to be family we have to believe in God’s eternal and unique Son. If we believe on Him we are truly family.
We can disagree on His coming, on who the Holy Spirit is, about heaven and Hell, but we gotta believe on Him. We can disagree on life and death, angels and powers, the pass, future and the present, but we gotta believe on Him. Heck, we can even disagree on what we can disagree on. We can disagree on His birth, even His death, but we gotta believe that He exist in order to be family.
You see, I have 5 brothers and 3 sisters, one mother and one father, but unless they believe on Him we aren’t family.
Matthew 12:47-50 (New International Version)
Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you." He replied to him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."
Indeed, we can even disagree on which bible to use, but again, we gotta believe in Him to be family.
Love and peace to all who believe in the biblical Christ.
The King of kings and Lord of lords.
Yes sir my lord, we gotta believe in Him!
In Him, God’s One and Only! Unique, eternal and true!
QUOTE
Ah, you gotta tell me that we also agree that God has a Son.
Reason being is that we can disagree on all kinds of doctrines, but to be family we have to believe in God’s eternal and unique Son. If we believe on Him we are truly family.
Reason being is that we can disagree on all kinds of doctrines, but to be family we have to believe in God’s eternal and unique Son. If we believe on Him we are truly family.
Well now Jack dear brother, rest assured we agree on that. There are many on this board that agree too that Jesus is GODS Son. He died on the cross and rose from the dead to save us of our sins and HE sits at the right hand of the FATHER.
"He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36
"And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life." 1 John 5:20
"....this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent." John 17:3
"...by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. This is the stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’ Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." Acts 4:10-
Jesus said, "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him." John 6:44"
I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." Galatians 2:20
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. I am the bread of life. ... I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.” John 6:47-51
“... if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, 'Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.' For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For 'whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.'" Romans 10:9-13
My heart goes out to you because I’ve been struggling to find unity among those who confess Christ and I’m confident that you’ve also been experiencing the same thing. My prayer is that God would personally teach His people and bring them into a deeper understanding of who He truly is. I know that He has been teaching us but for some reason my heart longs to see His people at peace. I myself haven’t been able to bring myself to this peace but I have known it and if God was to grant my request, it would be that His people would be well grounded in what they have come to know and that in abundance.
You know, knowledge is good, but if we haven’t got love flowing through us we may as well turn to stone. If only God would take each of us aside and firmly establish us!
I can only hope that I’ll live to see the day when I’m surrounded by well grounded, mature, God fearing people who know what they know. And oh, to be counted among them.
He is real you know – beyond any reasonable doubt!
Where does all these insane doubts come from? How does someone silence them? There must come a time of refreshment… Better days for God’s people before they face the coming storms. Otherwise it’s gonna be hell for us!
Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. - Ephesians 4:14 NIV
Peace to all of you who have been loved of Christ.
You know, knowledge is good, but if we haven’t got love flowing through us we may as well turn to stone. If only God would take each of us aside and firmly establish us!
I can only hope that I’ll live to see the day when I’m surrounded by well grounded, mature, God fearing people who know what they know. And oh, to be counted among them.
He is real you know – beyond any reasonable doubt!
Where does all these insane doubts come from? How does someone silence them? There must come a time of refreshment… Better days for God’s people before they face the coming storms. Otherwise it’s gonna be hell for us!
Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. - Ephesians 4:14 NIV
Peace to all of you who have been loved of Christ.
http://www.beholdhecomes.net/music/HOLINESS_HOLINESS.mp3
Could very well be that the answer to my prayer for God’s people is found in the following. Of course we would have to put His word into practice. Maybe the old saying is true that says, you get what you put into it.
Philippians 4:6-9 (New International Version)
Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.
Could very well be that the answer to my prayer for God’s people is found in the following. Of course we would have to put His word into practice. Maybe the old saying is true that says, you get what you put into it.
Philippians 4:6-9 (New International Version)
Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.
QUOTE
My prayer is that God would personally teach His people and bring them into a deeper understanding of who He truly is.
Oh yes dear brother that is my prayer also for HIS people. A deep personal spiritual relationship with the Father. HE so much wants that with us. So many of GODS children miss out on what HE is teaching us personally because we are not seeing or hearing with the spirit.
"Jesus answered, 'Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.'” John 3:5-8
"'It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh [human nature] profits nothing. The
words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you who do not believe.'" John 6:63 '''
...the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it
neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you." John 14:17
QUOTE
You know, knowledge is good, but if we haven’t got love flowing through us we may as well turn to stone. If only God would take each of us aside and firmly establish us!
Amen.
"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another." John 13:34-35
"...that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height— to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us, to Him be glory..." Ephesians 3:17-21
"Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh [human nature]. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. "Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy.... those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit." Galatians 5:16-25
QUOTE
He is real you know – beyond any reasonable doubt!
Oh so so true......Amen
"Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: 'Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent." John 17:1-3
"...as it is written: 'Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.'
But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God....
"But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For 'who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?' But we have the mind of Christ." 1 Corinthians 2:9-16
We must continue to pray for our brothers and sisters, never ceasing but also trusting and truly believing that GOD hears. We can pray and be a witness but really a persons personal relationship with the Father is not in our control.
"Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." Philippians 4:6-7
"Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit." Romans 15:13
Is it possible that the unsaved will simply be annihilated and pass out of existence?
Hell involves everlasting punishment!
Matthew 25:46 sums up the judgment on the "sheep and goats" with the words. "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." The same word (eternal) is used to describe the punishment of the wicked and the blessing of the righteous.
Whatever we say about the duration of "eternal" life for believers must be said about "eternal" punishment for unbelievers. Since life for believers is “everlasting” (John 10:28), so must be the punishment for unbelievers.
The Apostle John describes those in the "lake of fire" being "tormented day and night forever and ever." The expression day and night is used in Revelation to express the concept of "forever."
The lake of fire is described in Revelation 19:20 as a place that "burns with brimstone." John declares that anyone whose name is not written in the book of life is "thrown into the lake of fire" (Revelation 20:15).
The doctrine of eternal punishment for those who have rejected Christ is thoroughly biblical. It may not be easy to except from your point of view, however, the unpleasantness of a doctrine should not cause us to deny it.
As a matter of fact, the more you understand this doctrine, the more you’ll come to appreciate it. Indeed, Jesus said that you’ll know the truth and that the truth will set you free. Thus, once you come to understand this subject you’ll find that it will no longer be seen as a dreadful doctrine, but rather, a revelation of the true and living God.
I have an audio message that I would strongly encourage everyone to listen to. Its been a fantastic blessing to me in that I no longer see the biblical doctrine of eternal punishment as unfair or may I say meaningless.
AUDIO HERE
Remember this one thing my friends, all things have been created to glorify God. Thus those who will suffer the horrors of eternal punishment will in fact bring glory to God!
You however glorify Him as objects of affections and not wrath. For you have not been appointed to wrath but rather, to salvation, and that to glorify God.
Hell involves everlasting punishment!
Matthew 25:46 sums up the judgment on the "sheep and goats" with the words. "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." The same word (eternal) is used to describe the punishment of the wicked and the blessing of the righteous.
Whatever we say about the duration of "eternal" life for believers must be said about "eternal" punishment for unbelievers. Since life for believers is “everlasting” (John 10:28), so must be the punishment for unbelievers.
The Apostle John describes those in the "lake of fire" being "tormented day and night forever and ever." The expression day and night is used in Revelation to express the concept of "forever."
The lake of fire is described in Revelation 19:20 as a place that "burns with brimstone." John declares that anyone whose name is not written in the book of life is "thrown into the lake of fire" (Revelation 20:15).
The doctrine of eternal punishment for those who have rejected Christ is thoroughly biblical. It may not be easy to except from your point of view, however, the unpleasantness of a doctrine should not cause us to deny it.
As a matter of fact, the more you understand this doctrine, the more you’ll come to appreciate it. Indeed, Jesus said that you’ll know the truth and that the truth will set you free. Thus, once you come to understand this subject you’ll find that it will no longer be seen as a dreadful doctrine, but rather, a revelation of the true and living God.
I have an audio message that I would strongly encourage everyone to listen to. Its been a fantastic blessing to me in that I no longer see the biblical doctrine of eternal punishment as unfair or may I say meaningless.
AUDIO HERE
Remember this one thing my friends, all things have been created to glorify God. Thus those who will suffer the horrors of eternal punishment will in fact bring glory to God!
You however glorify Him as objects of affections and not wrath. For you have not been appointed to wrath but rather, to salvation, and that to glorify God.
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