PREFACE

One would not be surprised if the Tigris-Euphrates area was the "cradle of civilization" if Biblical Creationism was true since the Bible says that this was man's first homeland and people are often drawn to their homeland (I realize that Noah's ark according to the Bible landed in the Ararat area).



WHERE DOES THE BIBLE SAY THE ARK LANDED?

Here is what one source says about the location where the Bible says that Noah's ark landed:







MESOPOTAMIANS CAME FROM ARARAT REGION?


Here is something I found to be very interesting:






MAN'S FIRST CITY IN TURKEY?


Here is something additional I found stated regarding city in modern day Turkey:







IS MESOPOTAMIA MAN'S FIRST CIVILIZATION?


Here are some resources which claim Mesopotamia was man's first civilization:

http://college.hmco.com/history/west/mosai...1/module16.html

http://www.v-a.com/ashurai/



IS JERICHO WORLD'S OLDEST CITY OR AT LEAST WORLD'S OLDEST CONTINUALLY INHABITED CITY?

Here is something I found that points to creationism being true regarding what maybe the world's oldest city (or possibly the world's oldest continually inhabited city):






NY TIMES REGARDING MAN'S FIRST WRITING


Here is what the people at the New York Times say about scholars opinions regarding man's first writing:

http://www.english.uga.edu/~hypertxt/04069...ly-writing.html




SUMMARY

Now the evolutionists commonly claim that man came from Africa. Why wasn't the first writing/civilization found in Africa? Was there something wrong with the Nile? On the other hand, evidence pointing to the first writing/civilization in the Tigris-Euphrates area (or Turkey) fits well with creationism.

Also, if the evolutionists are correct, why does the first city appear to be in the homeland of where the Bible says man first lived (or lived after the ark landed in the Ararat area) ? I guess Africa didn't have any rivers or good city locations a very long time ago when the evolutionist alledge that man first appeared. Perhaps the developers of the first city found that land was cheaper in the Middle East and were sick of the sky high real estate prices in Africa! I do not believe, however, that is a satifisfactory answer and the location of the first city/civilization points to the Bible being accurate.

To clarify, the data you cite deals with "postdiluvium" civilization and cities, or city-states, of Mesopotamia, not "antediluvium" civilization and its cities destroyed by the Great Flood, predating the Sumerian culture. The antediluvium civilization consisted of a global technoculture of a former Earth Age (Noah lived in a former Technological Modernity), while our current Earth Age's ancient beginnings was merely a post-catastrophic period sprinkled with a few post-catastrophic survivors from the former "Golden Age", whom were catapulted back to a state of Neo-Barbarism, and having the Herculean task to begin the slow and incremental process of "recivilization". Our current Modernity will be subjected to the same fate of global technocultural extinction, catapulting remnant survivors into a future Neo-Barbarism, and our current advance civilization will be "mythologized" as a former "Golden Age". Hence, "As in the days of Noah so shall be when cometh the Son of Man".

"And Noah was five hundred yaers old, and Noah begot Shem, Ham, and Japheth."
Genesis 5:32


Chapter 6

the ark is prepared


Chapter 7

the sevens and the twos enter the ark

seven days later it rained for forty days and forty nights

the deluge lasted 150 days


Chapter 8

covenant

"While the earth remains,
Seedtime and harvest,
And cold and heat,
And winter and summer,
And day and night
Shall not cease."


Chapter 9

the rainbow a symbol of covenant promise

Genesis 9:26,27

"And he said:

"Blessed be the Lord,
The God of Shem,
And may Canaan be his servant."

"May God enlarge Japheth,
And may he dwell in the tents of Shem;
And my Canaan be his servant."


Chapter 10

the genealogy of the sons of Noah

the nations descended from Noah

Now here a three and a half year drought and there a huricane that wipes things out. Here the seeds dry up in parched soil and there a freeze has caused crops to spoil. The workers wages have fallen rite through the holes in their pockets but what can they do? Was the promise a blessing? Was it not meant for good ? What have we missed or not understood?

There is a city far older than any current known ancient city, even far older and far more sophisticated than Jericho; it is located off the west coast of Cuba, and is approximately 2,100 to 2,800 feet BELOW sea level, between the Yucatan Peninsula and the tip of West Cuba. It covers more than 20 square kilometers, and researchers claim it is older than Sumer and Egypt. Technically, we are told that the lowest the oceanic sea level has been in recent "geological time", the time of the last Ice Age, 12,000 years ago, was only 150 feet lower than its current level. So this means that the "Sunken City" is far older that the last Ice Age (!), which is considered impossible according to the linear history of Evolution, because this vast technologically advance architectural city reflects a high intelligence far and beyond Cro-Magnon Man.

The Sunken City was discovered by Russian-Canadian oceanographer and marine biologist, Paulina Zelitsky, and her team through the use of a sophisticated sonar process that relayed digitized binary data depicting vast geometric shapes, two great pyramids on square bases, a grid thoroughfare system, tunnels, bridges, freeway-like arteries, etc.

This city is not mentioned in the Bible. Not everything is, yet it does exist.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/589562/posts

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1697038.stm

http://www.andrewcollins.com/page/articles/lostcity.htm

But if you believe the scriptures that God created a mature earth in six days then all of that is nonsense. They have made up their own reasonings and bow down and serve it.

We need to take into account the catastrophic effect of the Flood. Anything that is pre-Flood may not correspond to post-Flood data. In fact, the names may not even mean the same thing/place (for names of places often appear in different unrelated places in different times). So, while there are Tigris and Euphrates, we do not know of Pishon and Gihon, the other two rivers of Eden. Some people claimed to have found Pishon and Gihon, but the data is very unclear. So much has changed due to the Flood. We don't even know if the Tigris and Euphrates today are the same as before the Flood. What we know is that those rivers today were formed after the Flood. We do not know if those were already formed before the Flood.

However, what is significant is that all the centers of civilizations seem to appear within a short span of one another. That will be very consistent with people quickly migrating outwards after the Flood (and also dispersed after the Tower of Babel).

If Adam was taken to the Garden of Eden after his creation (Genesis 2:8) he may have been created somewhere else than in Mesopotamia. Maybe somewhere off the Cuban coast, maybe not.

Greets, Divinespark

This isn't quite what l understand scripture to say. The first may happen as you stated above but the scriptures say nothing of the sort in reference to the second part of your exposition.

Could you explain where you think Christ's millenial reign fits? Based on what l believe scripture says we will be an enlightened people in a glorified body....I don't think we will be speculating about previous ages.

There is evidence enough for there having been a technologically advanced civilization, whether it is from aliens or an originally Atlantean culture. I don't believe that technology is the criterium for establishing which Age is of Gold or not. There are as many myths and other types of info that say that it is about a spiritual state of being, a less material or materialistic one. Relying on matter rather than on God is the real issue. And that is why the Golden Age is called the Dreamtime as well. There IS hard evidence for a technologically advanced civilization from ancient times.
- Christopher Dunn's writings about the precision of granite working is hard evidence.
- The buildings off Cuba are hard evidence.
- The Sumerian, Egyptian and Indian (India) histories about their "lofty ones" in their flying machines.
- Not to count all kinds of anomalies found in archaeology.

That the Golden Age would be a technological high in a civilization is mainly the influence of authors like Von Däniken and Sitchin, who both are very eager to show all those examples where those gods are like humans and no gods. Thank God for that, for it shows at the same time that what these "gods" promote cannot make them the same as God the Almighty, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
- God was reluctant to monarchy, while the Sumerian "gods" introduced it in Mesopotamia. God's type of government is a theocracy, and man as an inbetween is undesirable. Therefore they had to be chosen, anointed and so on, from the humblest origin in order to still show that it was God who raised them.
- God forbade incest, while the Sumerian "gods" committed it.
- God didn't give technology, while the Sumerian "gods" did.
- The gods settled wars or disputes among themselves like in a peace conference, not by top-down applying universal laws to which they would be subject from higher gods.
- God drew away Abraham from Terah and his family (Joshua 24) because of the other gods served. Contrary to what Sithin says, God is NOT one of the Sumerian gods therefore, if he sincerely believes that also the bible is such an ancient clue to the truth like the Sumerian stories, let him be consequent in this.
- Those Sumerian gods were personally present according to the Sumerian stories, while God lived only as God's Name (signature, identity, influence) in the temple and didn't need a house to live in, but lived in heaven.
- They needed sex to procreate with humans. They must therefore have a similar genetical pattern. Which points to them coming from an advanced human civilization. I personally assume that it is remnants of Atlantean civilziation who escaped a great cataclysm and tried to continue the embers of their civization.
- In fact, they do exactly the same as the Sons of God in the book of Enoch...

Däniken and Sitchin don't stress that much (where the Bible does!) that our God is about health, blessing, rain and sunshine, and can also work through invisible ways, the non-revelated influence of God (as the complement of the Law of God and a number of communicative contacts).

I will show one such deliberate misreading of the Bible to show how they make people believe that it's all about techology and certain energies made subject to technological and materialistic purposes. They think that the Ark of the Covenant is a technological device. First of all, the building instructions from the Bible don't support that statement at all. Second, they base the "electricity" of the Ark only on the fact that during a transport on a wagon, someone was killed and torn apart while he tried to prevent the wagon from toppling. As if he got an electrical shock. This doesn't explain how the Ark could rapidly spread disease when ill-treated (not according to a holy protocol which does neither mention anything that reads like "technological safety measures"). The carrying rods is the main example of how pseudoscientific the clear bible text is misread. According to the bible they were gilt. Gold is a good conductor. According to Sitchin and Däniken, the carrying rods were only of wood, for insulating purposes when the Ark was carried. With such misleadings, once reading this type of stories one would have to read on and study on through a lot of wonderments and nasty questions, in order to get loose from seduction by such type of research. I only wonder how many people don't have that determination to study on, and keep hanging in such half-way misleading opinions.

So... Yes, there is hard evidence for technologically advanced civilization, no, it is not THE high point of their civilization. A high of a civilization has many other criteria in order to define that, spiritual, religious, art, music, philosophy and so on. Many ways to define a Golden Age.

Greets, Divinespark

I believe in the scriptural “6 days of creation”, but I do not believe in their skewed misinterpretation by theologians as “6 literal days”, or 6 one-thousand day periods. Clearly by the Hebrew word used for "days" it implies an "epoch" of expansive time, a long duration. Thus, what is really being referred to in the scriptures of the “6 days of creation” are “6 great epochs” to the chronological history of our Solar System. It is not in reference to the creation of the Universe, but the local Solar System. It is in reference to 6 great solar epochs to our system. This can be called “The Hexheliogenic (six + solar creation) Epochs”. These 6 epochs mirror the great epochs of every ancient culture.

I have no problem believing there were advanced cultures before Adam..

No problem believing the Genesis 6 account of the sons of God having sexual relations with the women of the earth. (And polluting the gene pool)

I have no problem believing there's probably a lot of fact related to mythology...

But---

What difference does it make to the millennial reign?

If one believes that Christ will literally rule and reign on earth for 1000 years and we will have glorified bodies that will see as we are seen....It becomes null and void based on this.

Are we going to care if we've arrived?

However--

l can see why this speculating would become important if you have no faith in this fact.

People recreate the cyclical nature of civilizations and dwell on that possibility rather than on what God says in his word will happen.

They need a scientific way of understanding rather than having to except the Divine nature of God.

Just because Christ will rule with the Saints in the Millennial Kingdom doesn't mean History (His + story) will be "the baby thrown out with the bath water." I will be one for sure amongst others who will "care that we've arrived", because nothing is in vain and the Lord has put this on my heart since childhood as well as on the hearts of others "to go to and fro and knowledge shall increase", searching out the Truth of all that is for a "Remembrance" onto posterity, and to divide it from falsehoods, because in the Millennium those with the transformed second mind will not have understanding of the former ways and the former days in which the former global technoculture shall appear to them as an alien concept in the "New Earth Age" that is coming that will be "pastoral" in nature and without self-sufficient technology. There must be an apprehension of what “was” so that when Satan is released at the end of the 1,000 years to lead a rebellion and "deceive the nations" of the world yet again and bring Gog and Magog against the Saints, then they will understand their True Strength in Christ in the face of the Evil that will confront them before it is destroyed by fire from Heaven. But even so, because the nations of the world will be deceived by Satan in Christ's Millennial Kingdom, demonstrates that Satan will take full advantage of those with the transformed minds who do not apprehend the understanding of the former ways, deceit, war, etc., and their innocent niavete will cause them to be deceived: "Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sands of the sea. (Rev. 20:7,8)

Good grief, the blasphemy in this thread! What part of 'belief' are you having problems with, people? How can one justify believing in Christ, but calling His Father's creation unbelievable? He testified to the truth of His Father, to buy any of this (previous cultures, non-6 day creation, etc.) is to deny Him. Why believe what will happen IF you don't believe what has already happened?

Adam was the first man. EVER. Period. The geneologies from Christ back to Adam are recorded. This is the truth. All other 'theories' seek to separate you from the Lord and His Word. Have some faith, people.

In Christ, Angela

You still don't get it THE SEVEN THUNDERS. Gods power is beyond what you can think. He created it all mature, with everything that man views as ancient or taking a process to arrive there, already done. Mans teachings of these things are based on what he thinks he knows. Here is a thought to get you to try and understand what I am trying to say.
If God created it all yesterday exactly the way it is right now, all of your memories intact from so many years past, How would you know that it all came into being only yesterday? The billions of years that it takes for this to occur and that to happen is only mans folly. No one of a mind of flesh can even perceive the power of God. If God were to remove Himself from His creation It would cease to exist. No explosions, no pain, no wonderment, Just cease to exist. Praise His Holy Name that is not what He has planned though. He has decided to keep His creation forever more. When it arrives at the place where He being Holy can dwell in the face of His creation without judging them then it is complete. Sin will be gone from creation completely.

28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, 'For we are also His offspring.'

10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.

I find it extremely disturbing how the typical closed-minded Christian has been duped by the false and skewed misinterpretation of Genesis prevalent throughout Christendom as depicting an "instantaneous" creation of the cosmos into a current "mature state" or within six 24 hour periods, despite the fact that the Hebrew word used for "day" in Genesis is "olam", meaning "eon" (not a 24-hour period), connoting a "great duration of undetectable time"; and despite the fact that such a naive process and skewed notion actually flies in the face of God's Universal Laws as confirmed in undeniable quantum equations. Further, I find it even more so highly disturbing when so-called Christians then accuse the Brethren of "heretic status" and of "blasphemies" if you do not believe and endorse their antiquated, false and skewed misinterpretation, so horrifically reminiscent of false accusations by the Tribunals of the un-Godly Inquisition of the Dark Ages, which was conducted by the "Church", by those "believing" they were doing and executing God's Will.

God Instanly stoped and reversed the rotation of the earth in a moment and caused time to move backward. All of that without hurling everyone off of the globe into space. You don't have a clue.

I don't think this is correct. The word is "yom", not "olam". For example, Genesis 1:5

God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. In Hebrew transliteration is :

Vaiyiqra' Elohim la'or yom v'lachosekh qara' lailah vaiy'hi erev vaiy'hi voker yom echad.

The foundation on which you have built your argument is incorrect.

Your research is entirely misapplied; "yom" is in reference to "day"-light, and is NOT in relation to the "time periods" of six "days" (olam[s]: "eon[s]") of Creation. "The foundation on which YOU have built your argument is incorrect."

The ignorance on this thread is astounding... The instantaneous perturbation of the Earth (or any rotating planetary body, or of any spinning body for that fact), its momentary halt and a reverse spin is a phenomenon of perturbed and deflected momentum generated by the application of an external force on the spinning object in direct oppositional direction to the rotational spin. What this means is that a celestial impactor, like a comet or asteroid, or even the gravitational influence of an extrasolar object passing in close proximity to the Earth and in opposite direction of the Earth's rotation, was most likely the agent responsible for this event. If it was an impactor, then it had to impact onto the Earth in a location diametrically antipodal to the location of the recorded biblical event, since no mention of the impact is relayed in the account, because it could not be witnessed by observers from the opposite side of the Earth. Consequently, to individuals on the opposite side of the Earth from the impact event the stopping of the Earth's spin and the reversal of its rotation appeared as miraculous. The Western Hemisphere from Eastern Canada to the Eastern Pacific Ocean would be the calculated location for the perturbation impact event. There are numerous impact sites within this region. But this is not to say that God did not plan the "timing" of this event, aligning the celestial mechanics within the Laws of His Universe to play out this scenario for His intended purposes.

However, this has utterly nothing to do with your fairytale fantasy of the instantaneous creation of the Cosmos into immediate full maturity. So as you say, "Get a clue."

You misapplied my application. There are two yoms in the verse. The first is in reference to the day (-light). The second is to one unit of morning and evening, which the Bible says is equal to yom echad.

Secondly, I am interested to study the reference where olam in Genesis appeared in reference to the creation. Thanks.

p/s: I'm not arguing against a young earth or an old earth. It is only in reference to yom and olam. The Bible used yom for the creation days (or period if you insist).

And this!
Come on!



You need to know this stuff because everybody is going to be walking around in pastures and somebody's gotta have a scientific mind so we'll get it when Satan is released again...?

Speaking of ancient cities, it'll be fascinating to see how literal 6000-year Creationists vainly explain away and rationalize the utterly primordial metropolis buried beneath the 1.25 mile deep alluvium layer in the Cydonia Region on the planet MARS! Particularly since the Bible "does not say" that Adam and Eve were astronauts and interplanetary commuters who vacationed in the Martian City on holidays. Yet the Martian Surveyor photographed with ground-penetrating infrared technology crystal clear images of massive city-block sized architectural structures, skyscrapers, and a vast urban metropolis riddled with countless geometric shapes, plazas, thoroughfares and tunnels buried below the surface from a primordial Martian cataclysm. Located in the region is also a 5-sided enormous pyramid, the D&M Pyramid, which is 5 times the volume of the Great Pyramid of Egypt. Obviously, to any discerning and astute mind the history of our Solar System is extremely different from what is currently espoused by Modern Science, Evolution and the literal 6000-year Creationism Worldview.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...-1%26safe%3Doff

Which God do you believe in? The Lord turned the earth backward and caused the shadow to go back. If you don't believe the scriptures then which God is it that you worship. You must not believe that God parted the red sea or protected Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego in the furnace. Of course elijah could not have brought fire down out of the sky on the heads of two captains and a hundred men. Then that would also mean that the Lords two witnesses won't be able to shut up heaven so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy or turn the oceans to the blood of a dead man and bring insects to eat every green thing on earth.

Guess what THE SEVEN THUNDERS. I know it is real and you better get a clue before you end up as stew meat for the man of sins pot.

Trust God!

You are becoming a despicable display with your deranged caustic twaddling to match the vulgar photo that you ostentatiously display with your deranged face ("Satan, get behind me!"). The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the Resurrected Jesus that I worship Who sits at the Right Hand of the Father is not the same god that inspires you to vitriolically spout threats to the Brethren, as "...you better get a clue before you end up as stew meat for the man of sins pot." Just remember that what you do (or say) to the least of His, is done (and said) onto Him. Your very own words shall judge you. Heed and mind your tongue. Furthermore, I would advise that you try to mature and learn to dialog and debate in a “civilized fashion” rather than using a modus operandi of hostile accusatory assault where you constantly throw red herring diversions having utterly no rational connection with the subject at hand aimed for the strategic tactical purpose of “confusion”. My God is not the “god of confusion.” There is a comprehensive logic to the things of the One True God to those of us who are in-filled with the Spirit of God. The folly of man’s wisdom is the earthly wisdom of man NOT filled with the Spirit of God. This you have twisted. The Lord gave me a brain, and I’m going to use it to search out the facts that scientifically support and confirm His Creation, and part of this process of apprehending the Truth will require letting go of archaic and outdated misinterpretations that skew the Truth of God, or paint a half picture of True Reality.

So you have the faith of a Scientific Atheist. Difficult words and long speeches do not add anything to me and the transparency of a lack of faith is disheartening. So I'll leave you to believing that the Power of God has a scientific explanation and is a archaic and outdated misinterpretation of man. Good luck making it through what the Lord is preparing us to do with this earth. The scientific world will fall to their knees when they see all of the oceans turned to blood and all of the weather on earth disappear.

Godsloft, in the name of Jesus I rebuke this accusation from you and I do not accept it. Additionally, atheists do not have a faith, so contrary to your erroneous statement no one can have the "faith of a Scientific Atheist". I have already declared to you that I worship the God of Abraham, etc., and furthermore I am a Spirit-filled "Born-Again" Christian. Your peculiar notion that science is entirely and diametrically antipodal to the God of the Universe is extremely bizarre, to say the least.

Rebuke a scripture believing Christian in Christ's name? You've got to be kidding. (Recall those who will ask Christ, 'Did we not cast out demons in your name? AND His reply- That He does NOT know them.)

Atheists DO have a faith- it is to disprove the Lord's existence.

Spirit-filled? Then why don't you believe scripture? Your disbelief reveals you for what you are.

True science backs up scripture, not your brand of it.

Miki is right, too, TRUST GOD!

I rebuked his false "accusation" claiming that my Fatih in Christ is atheistic. You only want science to back your "misinterpretation" of scripture. On the contrary, disbelief in the Holy Scriptures is far from me as the east is from the west. And I have always trusted God daily that His truth shall prevail. Thank you.

7,

I've read enough of your 'theories' to know that you do not believe scipture. Anyone believing in 'pre-existing civilizations' and that Adam and Eve were interplanetary space travellers does not believe the sciptural account of creation. Plain and simple. Your disdain of those who follow the scriptural accounts abounds. Increase your faith and decrease your hatred of Bible believing Christians as you profess to be one. You will not be able to rebuke the truth forever.

You said,


So you deny the Lord's all-mighty power? Sure sounds like it. Perhap you should 'get a clue' as you so kindly put it, and believe what you profess. Even Jesus confirmed that a day was 12 hours and that night was 12 hours.

BTW, if anything of this magnitude had actually happened:



Then it would have been a global extermination event, which is a lot more than what scripture relates.

With love and in Christ, Angela

I see your rebuke and raise you a blessings and two prayers. Let's make the first prayer “That the Lord shows you His undeniable Power before the rest of the world is forced to see it. And the second Prayer that The Lord Pours His Spirit and Power on you without measure so you will be able to help the faithless sheep in the day of trouble. The blessing comes when the Lord answers the prayers.

[quote name='AngelaNPraise' date='Feb 21 2007, 10:01 PM' post='102975']

[quote]/ Then it would have been a global extermination event, which is a lot more than what scripture relates.

With love and in Christ, Angela
[/quote]

Well, Angela, it would depend on many other factors, like the size of the culprit impactor and the scale of the resulting impact event. For all we know it may not actually take as much energy to perturb the Earth's rotation as what we currently suspect, requiring a perturbation where the Earth still maintains its current polar axial and does not produce a more radical pole shift. Definitely, the angle of the impact event is very crucial. It was most likely not a head on collision, but an angle less than 35-degrees, or perhaps a "grazing" that did not leave any easily determinable evidence of its physical encounter. Rudimentary experiments on spinning spheres could easily determine the most rational angular possibility. In terms of damage, if there was a hit, it could have been regional, say, primarily confined to the Western Hemisphere, yet a cooling worldwide due to generated cloud cover would have been precipitated producing crop failure and most likely a famine in various regions. A more radical event that precipitates a radical axial shift of the poles, now that would definitely produce the global extermination event that you mentioned. However, this more radical onslaught would not have produced the affect of the Earth standing still for several days until the rotational spin reactivated in a reverse direction.

Also, it is highly possible that the culprit was the planet Venus as put forth in the 1950's by Immanuel Velikovsky, a brilliant Russian researcher (a psychologist) who authored the books, "Worlds in Collisions" and "Earth in Upheaval". According to his remarkable research light-years ahead of his obtuse contemporaries (the entire scientific community cruelly and brutally ridiculed him) he uncovered ancient accounts of the planet Venus' recent arrival to our Solar System. And before Venus was able to establish its orbit around the Sun, it had an erratic path that came close on several occasions, threatening the Earth at the time of the Exodus of Moses, and was the celestial agent, he proposed, that God used to cause the 10 Plagues against Egypt. This "capturing" of Venus would completely explain its unusual rotation. All the planets in our Solar System spin counter-clockwise, but Venus spins clockwise, yet was forced to orbit the Sun in the same counter-clockwise direction as the other planets orbit. This is why Venus makes one complete clockwise spin on its axis in a one year counter-clockwise orbit around the Sun. Hence, Venus' days are one year long. In addition to this I postulate in my work that Venus was torn out of its orbit from another star system that past near our system. As our system rotates counter-clockwise, this other system I propose rotates in the opposite direction, clockwise, matching Venus' clockwise planetary spin. (This may also explain the mystery why all the comets orbit our Sun clockwise against our Counter-clockwise system, for they are actually debris torn away by our Sun’s gravity from this other clockwise spinning star system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel_Velikovsky

Be well...

It is the Spirit of God that has been hidden for many many centuries. While man dreamed up all of this nonsense. Everything except the Spirit that is God is part of His creation. That includes everything. Light, Darkness, Space, Matter, Thought, time, heat, cold, galaxies, solar systems, suns. Everything that is in the Universe only continues by His act of will.
The calling of God of any man is the drawing of God for that man to pay attention. Many are called but few are chosen. Most go off on some man made tangent and start preaching and teaching a man made gospel. How many do you know that from the first have seen Christ as their example and left all to go and do what he did and what He taught to find Him? The Holy Spirit has to be asked for to be received. There are no Apostles here to impart the Holy Spirit by sight and sound because the Lord has hidden His face from the generation of His wrath. Now at the very end the Lord is waking up His end time saints who will leave all that they have and come out from among them and be separate to follow Him. When the saints are ready to receive the Lords sheep into His camps then the Lord will send His two witnesses to destroy the earth by removing the whole supply of bread and the whole supply of water from the planet. After Gods daily sacrifice to man is taken away by His two hosts then those deluded men of sin who preach a sin loving god will place there the abomination of desolation and start hunting and eating people for food and drink using their man made devises to capture their food.

Isaiah 24
1 Behold, the Lord makes the earth empty and makes it waste, Distorts its surface And scatters abroad its inhabitants.
2 And it shall be: As with the people, so with the priest; As with the servant, so with his master; As with the maid, so with her mistress; As with the buyer, so with the seller; As with the lender, so with the borrower; As with the creditor, so with the debtor.
3 The land shall be entirely emptied and utterly plundered, For the Lord has spoken this word.
4 The earth mourns and fades away, The world languishes and fades away; The haughty people of the earth languish.
5 The earth is also defiled under its inhabitants, Because they have transgressed the laws, Changed the ordinance, Broken the everlasting covenant.
6 Therefore the curse has devoured the earth, And those who dwell in it are desolate. Therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, And few men are left.

Isaiah 34
1 Come near, you nations, to hear; And heed, you people! Let the earth hear, and all that is in it, The world and all things that come forth from it.
2 For the indignation of the Lord is against all nations, And His fury against all their armies; He has utterly destroyed them, He has given them over to the slaughter.
3 Also their slain shall be thrown out; Their stench shall rise from their corpses, And the mountains shall be melted with their blood.
4 All the host of heaven shall be dissolved, And the heavens shall be rolled up like a scroll; All their host shall fall down As the leaf falls from the vine, And as fruit falling from a fig tree.

Jeremiah 25
30 "Therefore prophesy against them all these words, and say to them: 'The Lord will roar from on high, And utter His voice from His holy habitation; He will roar mightily against His fold. He will give a shout, as those who tread the grapes, Against all the inhabitants of the earth.
31 A noise will come to the ends of the earth-- For the Lord has a controversy with the nations; He will plead His case with all flesh. He will give those who are wicked to the sword,' says the Lord."
32 Thus says the Lord of hosts: "Behold, disaster shall go forth From nation to nation, And a great whirlwind shall be raised up From the farthest parts of the earth.
33 And at that day the slain of the Lord shall be from one end of the earth even to the other end of the earth. They shall not be lamented, or gathered, or buried; they shall become refuse on the ground.
34 "Wail, shepherds, and cry! Roll about in the ashes, You leaders of the flock! For the days of your slaughter and your dispersions are fulfilled; You shall fall like a precious vessel.
35 And the shepherds will have no way to flee, Nor the leaders of the flock to escape.
36 A voice of the cry of the shepherds, And a wailing of the leaders to the flock will be heard. For the Lord has plundered their pasture,
37 And the peaceful dwellings are cut down Because of the fierce anger of the Lord.

Daniel 12
7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.

Deuteronomy 32
36 "For the Lord will judge His people And have compassion on His servants, When He sees that their power is gone, And there is no one remaining, bond or free.
37 He will say: 'Where are their gods, The rock in which they sought refuge?
38 Who ate the fat of their sacrifices, And drank the wine of their drink offering? Let them rise and help you, And be your refuge.
39 'Now see that I, even I, am He, And there is no God besides Me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; Nor is there any who can deliver from My hand.

Jeremiah 7
29 Cut off your hair and cast it away, and take up a lamentation on the desolate heights; for the Lord has rejected and forsaken the generation of His wrath.'

Zechariah 13
8 And it shall come to pass in all the land," Says the Lord, "That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die, But one-third shall be left in it:
9 I will bring the one-third through the fire, Will refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, And I will answer them. I will say, 'This is My people'; And each one will say, 'The Lord is my God.' "

Revelation 7
9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,
13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?"
14 And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them.
16 They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat;
17 for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."

Seven...you really know how to put together a sentence. I find my self laughing...but in a loving way.

I have to constantly go back and shorten mine up or one sentence will fill a mouth!

Hey Seven...have you ever seen any of Dr. Carl Baugh's work?

Replica of the stegosaurus carved in a ten-foot column at the
Ta Prohm Cambodian Temple dedicated in 1186.



The Museum's team, led by its Founder and Director, Carl Baugh, Ph.D., has excavated eleven dinosaurs (Acrocanthosaurus, Stegosaurus, Allosaurus, etc.), 475 dinosaur tracks, 86 human footprints, 7 cat prints, and other fossil remains - all in Cretaceous limestone. Excavations were professionally documented along the Paluxy River and various other international locations.

Among museums this entity makes a unique contribution, demonstrating that man and dinosaur lived contemporaneously.

Creation Science Briefs


Subject: Carbon Dating

A less-common form of the carbon atom, carbon-14, is used today by scientists as a method to date once-living organisms. Many people believe that carbon dating disproves the Biblical time scale of history. However, because of the difficulties with current C14 dating techniques, the dates produced have been shown to be faulty.

Carbon-14 is produced in the upper atmosphere by action of cosmic rays. Once the C 14 has been formed, by converting nitrogen-14 into carbon-14, it behaves like ordinary carbon-12, combining with oxygen to give carbon dioxide, and freely cycling through the cells of all plants and animals. Carbon-14 is used for a dating material because once it has been formed, C14 begins to decay radioactively back to nitrogen-14, at a rate of change that can be measured. As soon as an organism dies, the C14 atoms which decay are no longer replaced by new ones through respiration. Consequently, the ratio of C14 to C12 in that once-living organism decreases as time goes on. The problem with the carbon dating method is—scientists can not be sure of what the C14/C12 ratio was when the organism died. Carbon dating assumes that the ratio has remained constant; however, events, such as the industrial revolution, are known to have raised C12 levels. Other possible factors, such as the presence of a water canopy, would have lowered the amount of C14 in the pre-Flood world. Because pre-Flood specimens had so little carbon-14 in them, some might appear to have been decaying for tens of thousands of years. Also, the decay of the earth’s magnetic field would have direct effects on C14 level, again, giving artificially old ages the farther you go back in time. Finally, carbon dating has been shown untrustworthy with some present day aquatic specimens that were concluded to be thousands of years old. For example, the shells of living snails’ were carbon dated and showed that the snails had died 27,000 years ago. Other specimens have been carbon dated more than once, each time producing a different date varying by thousands of years. In overview, we see that the radiocarbon dating method is certainly no embarrassment to the Biblical creationist who believes in a young earth. In fact, when all data, such as the decay of the magnetic field and the canopy, is taken into accord, carbon dating seems to support a young earth.

CEM Staff


"Coal: Evidence for a Young Earth"
Abstract:

Evolutionary theory requires millions of years in the formation of coal in order to afford time for the development of living organisms whose fossils are found in coal deposits. However, laboratory and field research has demonstrated that coal is formed rapidly and in vast quantities. These vast coal deposits are unsullied by other material. The conclusion is drawn that actual research indicates a young age to the Earth that contains such coalified materials.

Introduction

"If coal takes millions and millions of years of heat and pressure to form, how is it possible that creationists are teaching that the earth is only a few thousand years old?" This is a commonly asked question among individuals seeking answers about the age of the earth and the universe. Research has been done by several creation organizations, as well as independent scientists, in order to answer such questions. The evidence actually shows that coal does not take millions of years to form, as is commonly asserted. In fact, the formation of coal has been proven to be a rapid process that can be duplicated in modern laboratories in a matter of days - or even hours.

I. Rapid Formation

In order for coal to be formed, several factors must be present. Pressure, temperature, water, time, and some sort of vegetation are the key elements for the formation of coal. According to evolutionary theory, the slow accumulation and decomposition of vegetation living in past ages accounts for the coal seams. However, this theory can not answer why such large amounts of original vegetation without soil can be found in the areas that are now coal seams, or how these coal seams became so thick - some being over two hundred feet in depth.

Scientist Robert Gentry analyzed coalified wood found on the Colorado Plateau in order to determine how long it took for coal to form.1 By treating coal with epoxy and slicing it into thin sheets, Dr. Gentry was able to examine tiny, compressed radiohalos found in the coal. Radiohalos are discolorations in the coal, ejected by radioactive elements in the centers (such as uranium).

According to evolutionary theory, in order for these halos to form, several processes must have occurred. First, water-saturated logs must have been laid down in several different geologic formations, including the Triassic, Jurassic and Eocene layers. Later, uranium solutions infiltrated the water-saturated logs, and uranium decay products were collected at tiny sites within the logs. The radioactive decay from the tiny particles ejected spherical radiation damage regions around those sites, thus producing halos. Finally, a pressure event on the site of the formations compressed the logs as well as the radioactive halos within them. However, because coal is not a malleable substance, scientists know that these logs had not turned to coal at the time the compression event occurred. This points to a quick burial and coalification of the logs – rather than a long time period.2

II. Decay Ratios

When the ratio of uranium decay to its decay product (lead) is analyzed, the conclusion is drawn that all the logs within the various geologic formations were buried at the same time. The high lead-to-uranium ratios admit the possibility that both the initial uranium infiltration and the coalification could possibly have occurred within the past several thousand years.3

III. Polystrate Fossils

The presence of "polystrate" trees (trees petrified or coalified in an upright position) point to a rapid coalification process. One of the most commonly known polystrate trees is found at Katherine Hill Bay, Australia. This fossilized tree can be seen extending over twelve feet, through several sedimentary layers. According to evolutionary theory the different sedimentary layers took hundreds of thousands of years to accumulate. However, we know this is impossible since the tree would have decomposed long before the sediments would have had time to accumulate. Rather, this tree is testimony to the catastrophic and rapid burial that must have taken place.

IV. Unsullied Deposits

Finally, coal seams such as those found in the Powder River Basin of Gillette, Wyoming, ranging from 150 to 200 feet in depth, point to a rapid coalification process. "These coal seams run remarkably thick and unsullied by other material. Usually, unwanted sediments, such as clay, washes over a deposit before coal seams can get very thick. This leaves scientists with the baffling question of how the seams get so massive and still remain undiluted by influxes of clay and other impurities before they thicken."4

Conclusion

The answer can be found in the Biblical account of Noah's Flood. The Biblical description of the fountains of the great deep breaking up gives strong reference to volcanic activity in the pre-Flood basins.5 This would have provided several of the key factors need for the production of coal, along with an explanation of how the process could have occurred at such a rapid pace.

Although the coalification process has been used in the past to support theories of an aged universe, research done by leading creation scientists reveals that this process actually supports creation teachings of a young Earth. Physical evidence demonstrates that the coalification process must have occurred rapidly, rather than over vast time periods."[/color]

http://www.creationevidence.org/cemframes.html

Miki... Are you kidding? THE Dr. Carl Baugh is my hero, I LOVE him, an absolute brilliant man of God! When I have some time later today, I will have to comb through every single letter of your posting... For now, I have to get back to work. Thanks in advance!

Where are you Seven? I want to rejoice with you!

I have my DVR set to record all of his programs! Would love to go to the Creation Evidence Museum some day, too.

In Christ, Angela

BTW, the Santini volcano erupted at the same time as Exodus, and (according to secularists) was responsible for the plagues in Egypt.

Hi, Miki...

I was detained over the last two days with work for a client’s deadline and couldn't break away.

Dr. Baugh is a genius; I love his eloquence, so well spoken, and such a great gentleman. Dr. Baugh greatly inspired me in the early 90's to examine our origins with "open eyes", and to think "out of the box". As a result I was able to postulate, through various disciplines our origins and how life emerged on Earth (i.e. via empirical observation, the scientific method, examination of cultural traditions, biblical analysis, etymology of pagan (stellar & solar) deity names and epithets, and most significantly understanding the process and purpose of mythology, being “cosmocryptography”, a symbolic language recording celestial and cosmocatastrophic events where the celestial agents were “personified” into the pagan deities [these gods simply don’t exist, instead they are stars]).

Unlike Evolution and its Uniformitarian Model of these gargantuan ages (5 billion years) that never existed, my hypothesis puts forth that life emerged via a “polybiological explosion”, which I identify as “Spontaneous Polybiological Mass Profusionism”. The entire genetic species pool of life was created in “unison” with all of its variety and genetic “kinds”, thus all life was originally contemporaneous. Hence, what is called by secular science as Homo sapiens (the “Paleo-Adamic Race”) was contemporaneous with dinosaurs and all the variety of other anthropomorphic species (hominids and anthropoids). This polybiological explosion was precipitated by certain and specific conditions on the Edhenic Earth which created a “Geocrucible Effect” in which the Earth became the “Womb of Life”. Dr. Baugh speaks of these conditions in his research dealing with the original “hydrosphere” (I term it the “Prima Altohydosphere”) of frozen water (ice) and other elements that once encapsulated the Earth creating greater geomagnetic amplitude and 30% greater oxygen concentrate, thus creating conditions producing gigantism, longevity and regeneration.

Secular science has misinterpreted to Geological Column. It is not the result of a slow and incremental process over gargantuan geological time. Instead, it was primarily created suddenly from an abrupt cosmocataclysm of a transterrestrial nature. And “stratification” through hydraulics created the layers of the Geological Column in which the suspended material of varying viscosity and weight layers itself into layers as the water level recess, like the different levels of rings (strata) that form in a bath tub as the dirt water slowly drains. After the Earth’s first extinction level event produced by Noah’s Flood, the Earth has actually been subject to other cosmocataclysms, but of different natures from the Flood. Hence, the original genetic species pool of life has been subject to a whole series of periodic extinction level events produced by cosmocataclysms, resulting in the incremental whittling away in percentile chunks of the original polybiological species pool and entombing the dead into the hydraulic mud fossilizing it. In some cases, passing stars have “flash fried” the flesh before its alluvium entombment. Because the Earth is a water-planet, hydraulics are a key element in the fossilization process, but as the scriptures say, there will never be another Flood of such a titanic global magnitude again as Noah’s Flood. For one thing this can’t happen because the original Prima Altohydrosphere was collapsed by the original cosmocataclysm that generated Noah’s Flood. Consequently, this is how the Geological Column formed causing “Periodic Mass Polybiolysis” entombed into geological stratification.

Geologists’ misinterpretation of the Geological Column can be illustrated in the following way: Let’s say that today a comet impact strikes the Earth causing an extinction level event. The Earth is catapulted out of its orbit; the poles wander freezing everything in their path way; all cities are destroys into rubble; fire from the titanic detonation fries half the Earth; people and animals are flash-fried; 2,000-mile per hour hypercyclonic winds ravage the Earth; all objects are pulverized to be no bigger than a golf ball due to the winds; due to inertia the oceans displace out of their basins and overrun the continents; all evidence of our global technoculture is buried underneath 2 miles of alluvium soil; and all dead species are mixed into the hydraulic medium. Thousands of years pass. From remnant survivors a new civilization emerges. Ultimately, culture reaches the level of a new global technoculture. They dig up the fossilized bones of a Tea Cup Poodle, Terrier and a Great Dane. They note that the remains were found at different levels in the “Geological Column”. In the more shallow strata were located the bones of the Tea Cup Poodle. Further down the layers were located the bones of the Terrier. And finally, in the more ancient lowers layers of the strata were located the bones of the Great Dane. The scientist conclude that these bones are from the same species type, but different eras, and “obviously” have “evolved” in which the more primordial creature, the Great Dane, eventually evolved into the Terrier, and then the Terrier finally evolved into the Tea Cup Poodle. It makes perfect sense and fits the pattern of “Evolution”.

In reality we know these creatures were all contemporaneous. The bones of each animal ended up in different levels in the hydraulic stratification process, because of their weight. The Tea Cup Poodle remained suspended in the hydraulic medium longer because it was lighter and became fossilized in the highest level of the stratification; while the heavier bones of the Great Dane sank quicker in the medium where it became fossilized in the lower level of the Geological Column.

P.S. What an awesome picture!

OK Seven...I gotcha! ...

Have you seen the Privileged Planet?....http://www.illustramedia.com/tppinfo.htm



or any of the work of Hugh Ross?

He has some studies along that same line.
I don't know which was birthed first.
Hugh Ross has been doing a weekly series on the Day Star Network.
It's been pretty interesting.