SSSSWWWOOOOOOOOOSHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

http://today.reuters.com/news/articleinves...hotStocksNews-3

Revelation 16:21
And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

tal-ent. a former weight and unit of currency, used esp. by the ancient Romans and Greeks.

Strong's Number: 5006 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
talantiai'oß from (5007)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Talantiaios None
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
tal-an-tee-ah'-yos Adjective
Definition

1. a weight or worth of a talent
1. a talent of silver weighed about 100 pounds (45 kg)
2. a talent of gold, 200 pounds (91 kg)


King James Word Usage - Total: 1
weight of a talent 1


Wow that is one heavy hail stone 100 to 200 pounds. That is the weight of a man falling out of the sky.



Charlie

God is good...

I like how you look at scriptures Humble Bob.

I just thought about something, Wal-Mart has spent $1 Billion in China to build some stores.

The Great Wal-Mart of China

I saw on a special about Walmart that in one store in China, they sold 14 TONS of watermelons EACH day! They also had LIVE fowl in the deli!

YSIC, Angela

Update

http://today.reuters.com/news/articleinves...C1-ArticlePage2

and

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews....ment_n_analysis

Yep, watermelons are REALLY popular to eat here in China....last year I lived in Gansu (poorest province), where I lived the roads were sooooo bad (Iraq is better!) and it was a 6 hour journey to the nearest city (Xian- home of the Terracotta Warriors). There are heavy trucks going up and down that road all the time, and the jam is so bad sometimes you have to stop for an hour or two to wait for it to clear......so that means there are all sorts of touts along the road. The driver of the car I was in got out and bought a melon, all of us shared it on the side of the road! Aaaahhh, good times in China....

Haven't seen Walmart here yet though, there's none in my city. Wouldn't surprise me in the least about live fowl, every supermarket has massive fish tasks with live fish- the fish are bred in the supermarket and killed, gutted and scaled right there for you, can't get any fresher than that!

welcome Songbird
It looks like you are from the SHAANXI region in China?
Tell us more about yourself in our introduction thread
click here:
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...ost&p=92262



C

so, humblebob, how far are we into tribulation now?

Hi duncdrewnoah, I don't know anything about the tribulation, and I don't even know what to say about it as I don't even understand it. Sure, I've read about it from many posts but it's so overwhelming to me I get confused, so I am not sure what to say about it.

What I do say is what I believe, and I've said many things about the seventh vial for some time. About three years ago Revelation 16:21 clicked with me when I read the KJV of that scripture and understood the word "talent" to mean a monetary unit or standard. Ever since then I've been looking for signs of an economic collapse, and now it looks like its coming, hence the title of this post.

http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=9069

There is real real concern with the Feds right now, and the news is sounding more about it

http://money.cnn.com/2006/12/01/news/econo...dex.htm?cnn=yes

When it happens I believe it will last about 100 days

i agree there will be an economic collapse...the 4 horsemen are 1. antichrist, 2. war, 3. famine and 4. death.
it is obvious that the famine is partly caused by rocketing inflation, ie the price of a loaf of bread=1 days wager or more. It is like when gas went from 1.50 around here to 3.00...just from one hurricane...imagine the rapture, world war, comet strikes etc...gas will be 50.00 a gallon in the US. Food will become scarce and food lines will form like were in Russia a few yrs ago and like in the US in the 30's. But I dont think Jesus has statred opening any seals yet. In my opinion, when he does, there will be no doubt about it.

I agree. When God starts His judgments, everyone should notice. The rapture has to come first anyway.

Hi...

I am new to this forum, and was looking through some of the threads.

I was reading some of the posts in this thread and I think I am confused about something.

Is there some who think that we are already in the tribulation period?

This is something new to me, as I thought the rapture would take place first.

Thank you.

I don't think we can be sure of anything. no one has ever known. they all thought they knew, but in the end they were wrong. I don't think mainstream religion will be any righter this time. If it is there won't be any judgment. God never judges when people are doing his will. It's only when we become for the most part cold, and ineffectual that God will begin to judge. When his wrath has been kindled, Which usually happens when his people are failing him. What the unbelieving world does makes little difference, but when those he calls his own begin to fall away, he gets very angry. They know better, and will recieve the greater punishment.

Hi CG, welcome to the forum. Here folks will have many perspectives on things, but I am grateful that many here believes in Christ as Lord and savior.

Because you asked I'll repeat what I've said for some time now. I don't say I am right but it is what I believe.

First I don't have a good understanding of the tribulation as though I have not studied it well. But Christ talks about the tribulation in Matthew 24. Now I believe he was talking generally from the time that spans the millenia, basically, two distinct periods, one immediately after he is resurrected and much later near the end time as I believe we are in those times. In the first part, I believe Christ talks about the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem, which does occur in 70 AD. As far as I am concerned, that part of the prophecy is historical fact as fulfilled, and if you are interested, you can research the Internet and read about the horrible account of the siege of Jerusalem written by Josephus. The description is utterly apocalyptic with a million Jews besiged in the city of Jerusalem; some of the earliest Christians given signs to flee in the days and weeks before the Passover event leading up to the revolt against the Roman Army.

Christ talks later about the earliest Christian movement to spread the Gospel. These prosecutions continue through hundreds of years, from Paul's ministry to the Spanish Inquisition and even today from missionaries trying to spread the Gospel overseas like in China or India.

Matthew 24:21-31 I believe directly applies to this period I live in today. For those "pre-tribbers" even the words from Christ contradicts the idea of a rapture taking place for the faithful sparing them from tribulation

Note verse 21

Matthew 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

...is PRECEEDED well before next verse that suggests a "rapture"

Matthew 24:31
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

If Christ spoke in sequential order of the things to happen from first to last (within each paragraph) the rapture is the very last thing to happen before judgement.



Hope that helps, but dig deeper into scripture for the answers

I agree for the most part with everything you said Bob.

One of the primary agents responsible for the end time scenario is an extrasolar body that is on a collision course with our whole Solar System. This is something I have investigated since 1992.

The plagues of Reveleation, the great bowl judgments, worldwide earthquakes, the boiling of the seas, the "flash frying" of 1/3 the earth and of the flesh of man and beast, the global civilization breakdown, the worldwide finacial collapse, the 100 pound hail stones, etc., all this has to do with the fact that our Solar System is on a collision course not with a tiny comet, asteroid, planet Nibiru, or a planet-comet, etc., but rather our whole Solar System is on a collision course with the Sirius Binary Stellar System, which happens to be the other half of our former Trinary Stellar System when the two systems were originally unified. The White Dwarf star, Sirius B, is actually our paternal star, which today orbits Sirius A, which was the outer star to the former trinary, called by the prophet Jeremiah, "the Goddess of Heaven", for Sirius A is the "goddess star".

Hence, this is one of the "Mysteries of the Ages" which Modern Science and its bogus Evolution/Uniformitarian Model is entirely blind to. God is going to use this Mystery to bring judgment upon the wisdom of Man. It will be an extinction level event, catapulting our global technoculture into a Neobarbaric Period to begin the slow and incremental process of re-civilization all over again. Thus, the Lord says, "I will make man more scarce than gold."

This is the causing agent of "global warming", not manmade pollution and carbon emissions. It deals with the electromagnetic stellar effect of the two approaching systems that is agitating the internal magma of the earth (and other planet), which is causing countless seafloor volcanic erruptions that are heating the temperature of the seas, which in turn is changing the climate and melting the polar ice caps. This is also why the polar ice caps of Mars are melting. We live in a Scientific Dark Age, thanks to Evolution.

so when are we due to hit this system?

Good question.

What I believe is we are living all at once. When we talk of 'rapture' are there not hundreds raptured daily, sometimes thousands. And have there not been millions upon millions of people raptured since the beginning? And about that 'tribulation,' everywhere you look there is some sort of tribulation. And of course there is the saving grace of our Lord evident every day in lives all over. Rapture, tribulation, and saving. The question is 'When will it end?' What is the sign of the end? The bible tells you not to be deceived 'for many will come in my NAME and say it is the end. Do not go after them. For as the lightning shines from east to west so will the coming of the Son of Man be.'

i did some research and this system is 8.6 light yrs away....which means we will not pass thru any time soon...however, there are some strange things about sirius that science hasnt been able to figure out....it is a mystery star....if it were to explode/colapse, 8.6 light yrs is not that far away....it could cause problems well before getting close to earth with magnatism and gravitational pull.

Thank you all for your responces.

However, I was surprised about this theory of this other steller star system and its effects on the Earth.
I love Earth Sciences, it is one of my favorite subjects, but is this theory really grounded in strong Scientific evidence? Is there anything to support this, or is it mere speculation?

Interesting!

...bump.

I started this thread almost a year ago to the day...

http://www.reuters.com/article/hotStocksNe...M17880720071107

Dollar tumbles to all-time lows on China comments
Wed Nov 7, 2007 12:58pm EST
By Lucia Mutikani

NEW YORK (Reuters) - The dollar tumbled to record lows against the euro on Wednesday after comments by a Chinese official stoked fears the central bank of the world's fourth largest economy would reduce its holdings of U.S. assets.

The dollar's decline was broad, also taking it to all-time lows against a basket of major currencies, as sentiment further darkened in the wake of news that General Motors (GM.N: Quote, Profile, Research) posted its biggest quarterly loss in more than two years.

That loss, coupled with warnings of potential credit-related write-downs from major financial institutions, kept alive expectations that the Federal Reserve could cut interest rates again next month.

"It's a mountain of negative sentiment for the U.S. currency. Comments from China overnight added to the dollar's already negative tone," said Omer Esiner, forex analyst at Ruesch International in Washington.

"You also have concerns about the health of the U.S. economy, the possibility for lower lending rates and the subprime mortgage concerns."

A Chinese central banker said the dollar was losing its status as the major global currency and a top lawmaker said China should balance the make-up of its $1.43 trillion foreign reserves stockpile to take advantage of appreciating currencies.

China is the second biggest holder of U.S. Treasuries, according to the U.S. government.

The euro raced to an all-time high of $1.4730 according to Reuters data, before retreating to $1.4661, still up 0.7 percent on the day. Analysts saw $1.4780 as the next key level on the move to $1.50.

One-month implied euro/dollar volatility touched its highest since the peak of credit problems in August, indicating a scramble for protection against the dollar's rapid slide.

NO SHIFT IN RESERVE DIVERSIFICATION

But some analysts did not believe that the comments from the Chinese official signal a new phase in the reserves diversification process by the country's central bank.

"I am not convinced that this is a major new step in the reserve diversification process, but it's bad news for the dollar when sentiment is already bearish," said Shaun Osborne, chief currency strategist at TD Securities in Toronto.

"In the short term, we might see a bit of stabilization in euro/dollar. The comments are more an indication that the pace of diversification that we have seen is going to continue."

The dollar got little respite from comments from the U.S. Treasury that Secretary Henry Paulson stood by remarks he made a week ago expressing commitment to a strong dollar.

The dollar's latest bout of weakness has fanned speculation that central banks may step into the market.

A Reuters survey forecast a one-in-five chance of direct intervention by the European Central Bank either on its own or with other central banks.

"There is an element of disorderliness that is starting to creep into the price action. That should be a concern to some policy makers at least," said Osborne.

"But the risk of coordinated G7 intervention at the moment is very low. We need to see a significant shift in stance from the U.S. to convince the market the G7 is serious about this."

The dollar index, which measures the dollar's value against a basket of six currencies, touched a record low of 75.077 (.DXY: Quote, Profile, Research), down around 10 percent since the start of 2007. It last traded down 0.8 percent at 75.415.

Falling global and U.S. stocks on the back of GM's loss and the dollar's decline weighed on risk appetite, encouraging investors to unwind carry trades funded in yen and boosting the Japanese currency.

The dollar fell 1.4 percent to 113.03 yen, after earlier dipping to 112.79, the lowest level in two months.

Sterling jumped to a fresh 26-year high at 2.1071, while the dollar slid to 12-year lows against the Swiss franc at 1.1259 francs.

The currencies of resource-rich countries such as Australia and Canada were the biggest gainers from a commodities rally.

The original link has vanished Humblebob

Hmmm...it sure did! Maybe it portends of the rapture

It was just an article of the dollar back then. My, how the mighty has fallen!

The stock market ups and downs is acting just like it did after 9-11.
Something seems to be on the Horizon,,,lets see what happens after the summit meeting on November 11th...wow that's so strange HB the timeing...and odd too that this summit meeting is taking place on Sunday.

Now the summit is November 26th...did they change the date? where did I come up with November 11th

Could it be that God is angry with the north american peoples, who have in effect
turned from their Creator God and have let liberal minds and powers create laws that go
directly against God's devine will for mankind? Same sex marriages, are purely evil and
laws that protect these new life styles make our governments complicate to the act.
God thru out history has used the enemies of a people to bring forth His judgement!
Israel spent many, many years in captivity because of their disobedience. Do you think
God is doing the same thing to America and Britain? The Americas and Britain can not be
called Christian nations anymore. We have thrown God out of our society and even out
of our churches! Many ministries welcome sinful people into their churches without any need
for them to repent. A very popular ministry in the USA is welcoming all people into his
church under the blanket of love. Jesus said "repent, the Kingdom of God is at hand".
Their is NO forgivness without repenting. Don't let the devil fool you, people. I wonder
what St. Paul would say to some of these popular ministries today?

Thunder.

I agree with what you have said....and I also believe no nation or no individual is exempt from the judgment of God....that includes me and you...
And do I look to the WORLD to be approved ? or God...he knows our hearts and our ways. blessed is he THAT COMES IN THE NAME OF OUR LORD, JESUS.
For all nations will be judged, and all peoples(individually) will be too...for all like lost sheep have gone astray and looked to other Gods.

He also tells us, that THOSE OF OUR OWN HOUSEHOLD will be those who turn against one another.

This only convinces me more to look to Jesus in all things...and pray for one another, not condemn one another with judgment.

Jesus also tells us, to walk by Faith not by Sight...and that he came to save the LOST.
And he said on the Cross, Father forgive them for they know not what they do...
For they gather his GARMENTS FOR LOTS...
Remember too, when the disciples bickered over whom was the greatest in the Kingdom of God...and Jesus gave them the example of the Master and the Servant.
there are none worthy oh no none...
So Praise Jesus, who taketh away the sins of the World.

Blessed are the PURE in SPIRIT for they shall see God.

your questioning is pointing a finger...I ask you to examine yourself...for as you judge and we all do judge one another, so shall the Words we speak come back upon us...what we sow we shall also reap.
REMEMBER and NEVER FORGET, when Satan tempted Eve, and Adam and Eve disobeyed God and where shamed by Satan...GOD was looking for them in the Garden and they hid...because the Devil is a LIAR and a THIEF, come to Steal, Kill and Destroy and shamed them in their nakedness, and God said where are you and saw them and he SAID WHO TOLD YOU THAT YOU ARE NAKED?
Do not shame one another, for he tells us WHO TOLD YOU that you are NAKED...he didn't shame them, the Devil did, and they where also convicted by their disobedience to God.

So remove you MOCKING SPIRIT, in the Name of the Father, the son, and the Holy Ghost. Amen

I am a Reborn Christian, and though I am not perfect in the eyes of World(and I know of no one that is for it is by Grace we are saved, and God chastises those he loves, I still pray daily and examine myself and ask for his guidance and mercy. This is my blessed Hope,that I may be found faithful.... that I die daily more of you Jesus and less of me...and I repent of my sins, and lay my burdens down at the Cross.
God's Blessings to you.

He would quote this passage: Revelation 3:16

There is also no forgiveness for those whom do not forgive.

Are you Exempt Stephen?

Wow, HERE IT COMES.

Bump... hold your breath...

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idU...0071212?sp=true

Central bankers take high-stakes economic gamble

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Central banks have gambled big on whether they can solve the credit crisis by clubbing together to revive bank lending.

If their efforts to boost liquidity succeed, the financial market upheaval can be relegated to history as a painful but brief episode. If they fail, the U.S. economy looks headed for recession, dragging much of the world down with it.

"This medicine was designed specifically to go after the economy's core ailment, which is the growing scarcity of lending capital by banks," Bernard Baumohl, managing director of the Economic Outlook Group, wrote in a note to clients.

"What this coordinated central bank action has done is reduce the (chances) of a recession from 65 percent to 50 percent in the U.S.," he said.. "A lot more still needs to be done to keep the economy out of any real trouble, both in terms of further interest rate cuts and even more creative strategies to facilitate bank lending. We're not out of the woods yet."

By teaming up on Wednesday to announce efforts to ease financial market strain, the U.S. Federal Reserve, European Central Bank, Swiss National Bank, Bank of Canada and Bank of England sent a clear signal to investors that they grasped the magnitude of the credit market distress and were prepared to act.

It will not be a quick fix, however, as banks need time to rebuild battered balance sheets and regain confidence in sound lending practices. And it may be too little, too late to undo the damage already done to the world economy.

MILD OR SEVERE DOWNTURN?

There is little doubt that global economic growth will slow next year, dragged down primarily by weakness in the United States. The International Monetary Fund cut its 2008 global growth forecast to 4.8 percent from 5.2 percent in October, and is expected to trim it further next month.

But whether the downturn is mild or severe depends almost entirely on how the credit crisis plays out beyond the financial markets.

Economists have long warned that easy credit terms were leading to asset bubbles, and many saw tightening credit conditions as a welcome development after years of excess. The concern is that panicky banks have now overcorrected, curbing credit to worthy borrowers and stifling economic growth.

Banks have taken a $50 billion hit from bad loans, primarily tied to the U.S. subprime mortgage market, and analysts expect billions more in losses.

That leaves less money for companies wanting to build new factories, or consumers hoping to remodel their homes, hurting economic growth. That is why central bankers are eager to restore confidence among lenders to get money flowing again.

"The main problem in credit markets has not been that (interest) rates are too high, but that financial institutions have been unwilling to lend," said Alan Skrainka, chief market strategist at Edward Jones. "This added liquidity should relieve some of that pressure."

The Fed's most recent survey of senior loan officers found credit terms tightening well beyond the housing market. About one-fifth of domestic banks surveyed said they tightened lending standards for commercial and industrial borrowers. One fourth of domestic banks reported tighter credit standards for consumer loans other than credit cards.

Conditions looked somewhat better in Europe. ECB Vice President Lucas Papademos said there had been only limited spillover so far from tensions on the euro money market -- where banks get funding -- over to the interest rates that they charge businesses and consumers.

"Neither the price of credit extended to the private sector nor the quantity of credit extended to the private sector has changed much," he said on Wednesday.

But credit markets have clearly been feeling the strain as wary banks hoard cash. The spread between the London interbank offered rate, or Libor, and the Fed's key overnight lending rate remained abnormally wide, a sign that banks were holding back.

Many economists said the actions announced on Wednesday were aimed at addressing that Libor anomaly.

"It is likely to take months before spreads begin to narrow again, and will only happen once institutions begin to trust each other once more. And this will only happen when the frequency of write-downs begins to diminish," Commerzbank analyst Peter Dixon wrote in a note to clients. "That said, if we get through December without a major liquidity squeeze, the world is likely to look a brighter place come early January."

(Editing by Frank McGurty)

...it's almost here. Next month...

yes, here it comes...


i have been involved in the building industry in an entry level
for a few years. the industry is dropping out and seeking outside
investment to bolster it, to no avail. that is not the answer.

many companies that have gone "foreign investor" still have not
made it. many are trying to regroup. those that have investors
are seeking bankcruptcies or larger take overs. what this means
is that the land is sold outside.

america for sale is something i heard walking past the tv the other
day, and i am afraid that is what we will see in the next year, as
this has been condoned for a long time without being so blatant.
so, now we see. i hope that there is a turn around, and yet i
praise the Lord for His unfolding word in our time.

blessings,
signet

Well, the time has come. It's here...Market crash. Just like the 1920's but this time much worse.

Revelation 16:21
And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

Watch this plague come full strength.

I tremble but I trust in Jesus. May the Lord's will be done...Amen

I will be watching with great pecuniary interest as to the magnitude of the collapse. I find news and stock analysts guarded so as not tio incite panic. I don't know why precisely but I find myself feeling extremelyexcited, and I am at risk. Along with countless others.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

"I raise my voice in objectivity to My cause as I instruct you in the way in which you shall go. It has been said in the world that one should not burn one's bridges behind him. But I tell you of a truth, this is the very thing I call you to do, for you are in the world, but not of it.

I have said in My word that it is a woe unto him that would go down into Egypt for help, to rediscover dependence on the world system with all of it's abuses, and want and lack, and to be taken captive by the arm of flesh. Do not trust in kings and princes, neither stay your faith upon horses or trust in chariots, but trust only in Me. I have said that it is not for you to so embark on a backward journey of fear, as I have called you to possess your possessions and to inherit the promises.

There is no salvation offered in the world, or in it's riches when acquired in distrust of My purpose. I have called you across Jordan to occupy the territory hidden and prepared for you from the foundation of the world. The territory of which I speak is not the promise of land, but the inheritance of riches in glory. It is a journey which, when embarked upon must not be quitted, for once the hand is set to the plough there can be no looking back. My soul will have no pleasure in whosoever would distrust Me in favor of the world. It shall be a calamity unto My people who are so occupied, for these temporal things are but as chaff unto Me in the world, saith God.

I call you to record this day, to light the fire of faith and to set on fire those bridges which would allow the turning back and the crossing over into the wilderness of sin and into the wilderness of dependence upon the worldly resource. Manna was supplied in the wilderness, but full and total daily bread is offered in Me in this preparatory stage before My advent. My call and My purpose and My heart are set solely upon the redemption of man.

On the periphery of that cause is the subsequent blessing to do the works I have ordained, even to go into all the world and speak all the words of this life to whosoever will hear them. For this cause I will grant complete and total occupation of temporal blessing in this life, and in the life to come, eternity in glory. I will turn over the wealth of the wicked into the hands of the righteous in order that you are enabled to go forth, and stay the course as you trust in Me, for I am the Lord God almighty, who lives and reigns.

Be comforted in Zion all who mourn, for lo, I come quickly and My reward is with Me. I am the captain of your salvation and the water brook of life, and in Me shall all the children of men be blessed. I am the basket and store of provision for every perfected work. Turn unto Me, all children of revolt, for in that day every man shall cast away his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which their own hands have made for sin. Then shall the mighty man fall; and the sword shall devour him: but they that shall flee from the sword shall be discomfited. Princes of this world shall be afraid of the ensign, saith the Lord, whose fire is in Zion, and his furnace in Jerusalem. For thus hath the Lord spoken, amen."

Larry, what you will see is a severe and dramatic slide in stocks and what happens to gold is that it will slide also, but it will go back up just as quick. The largest holders of gold reserves are the central banks and the likes such as the IMF. They will sell off large portions of their gold reserves in a desprate bid to cover massive loan defaults which will send gold stocks plummeting, but ensuing inflation will drive gold back up.

You can sell before this happens (at a record high) and buy back after when it does (all time low). But do pray to Christ about it and not take my word. Only Christ knows exactly what shall be, and may he guide your steps

May your investments be blessed and covered in his protection.

Love HB

Bump. Lots in the economy has happened, but the bottom has not yet been reached...

I can honestly not believe that you are talking about money and stocks.

Since 2002 I stopped the roller coaster of a frenzy circus called stocks. Disgusted I was.

Then in 2005 I quit my job, for I had enough of others stealing the credits of my work.
May their incompetence be exposed without me.

Two weeks ago after I joined this forum I understood that I was not to be attached to worldy things.
So I made a paper signing all my possessions over to my companion. We quickly run out of funds to live by.

Although I have material enough to publish at the same time a Prose book in dutch about my countries current state,
and a Poem Book of Praise Verses for God, I can not publish them for that would mean to acquire worldy possession
and making money off something that is not even my own but Gods property.

God said, it would be enough forever, till yeah... till when?
So honestly, it can not be long till the day is here that money is worthless and a new economy will emerge without division.
It is simply a matter of deduction.

God Bless You

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home


Dollar's Slump Puts Morgan, Goldman on `Intervention Watch'

By John Fraher and Simon Kennedy

March 13 (Bloomberg) -- The dollar's record-breaking slide may trigger the first coordinated effort to prop up the currency in 13 years, say strategists at Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs Group Inc.

The currency today fell below $1.56 per euro and slumped to the lowest level in 12 years versus the yen. That has prompted complaints from European Central Bank President Jean-Claude Trichet and Japanese Finance Minister Fukushiro Nukaga. U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson said today he backs a ``strong dollar'' and refused to elaborate when questioned at a press conference in Washington.

The challenge for policy makers is fighting the $3.2 trillion-a-day currency market while the Federal Reserve cuts interest rates and the U.S. economy falters. With traders increasing bets on a weaker dollar, the Group of Seven nations may be compelled to act, some strategists said.

``We're on an intervention watch,'' Stephen Jen, Morgan Stanley's London-based head of foreign-exchange research, said in a telephone interview today. ``While I don't think we have reached the threshold yet, the argument in favor of it is gradually becoming compelling.''

The dollar today dipped below 100 yen for the first time since 1995, when the G-7 last stepped in to prop up the U.S. currency. It's lost 15 percent against the euro since September as the Fed's rate reductions dull the currency's allure. The slide has accelerated in the past two weeks, putting the euro at $1.5624.

Executives and politicians across the world say they're becoming increasingly worried about the dollar's decline.

Watanabe Anxiety

Toyota Motor Corp. President Katsuaki Watanabe said on March 7 the stronger yen is making conditions ``tough'' for the carmaker. Germany's MTU Aero Engines Holding AG, the largest independent provider of jet-engine maintenance, said today that the dollar's drop may ``cancel out'' the company's growth in euro terms this year.

The U.S. currency's drop may also infect other markets by further weakening confidence in U.S. assets, said Jim O'Neill, chief economist at Goldman Sachs. Morgan Stanley's Jen said the weaker dollar is already spurring higher commodity prices.

``The dollar's fall will worry other markets, which are so fragile right now,'' O'Neill said in a telephone interview today. ``Intervention will definitely be on the minds of policy makers.''

The dollar's drop accelerated after a Carlyle Group Inc. fund moved closer to collapse.

Any action by the G-7 would be the first since its governments united in September 2000 to boost a falling euro. The dollar sank as low as 79.75 yen in 1995 to prompt a rescue then.

Concentrating on China

Since 2002, the G-7 has focused on lobbying China to stop meddling to weaken the yuan while leaving itself with some room to maneuver by noting its aversion to ``excess volatility and excessive movements in exchange rates.''

A united bid to aid the dollar may still not be around the corner. For now, a falling U.S. currency and surging euro are giving support to a weakening American economy by spurring its exports. It's also helping the ECB contain inflation, which is at a 14-year high of 3.2 percent.

Supporting the dollar may also prove futile as its decline partly reflects the Fed's cuts and the ECB's decision not to follow, said Chris Turner at ING Financial Markets.

The Fed has cut its main rate by 2.25 percentage points since September to 3 percent, while the ECB's rate is still at a six-year high of 4 percent.

`Worse' Than Nothing

``Failed intervention is worse than no intervention,'' said Turner, ING's head of currency research in London. ``Policy makers have their hands tied and will defer to the global priority of the Fed slashing interest rates.''

Japan may be more willing to step into markets at a time when its economy is deteriorating and as investors start to bet the Bank of Japan will cut rates by year-end, said Ashley Davies, a currency strategist at UBS AG in Singapore.

``Intervention could easily become consistent with monetary policy,'' said Davies. ``We don't see any major reason why the Bank of Japan cannot resume.''

Eisuke Sakakibara, dubbed ``Mr. Yen'' for his ability to influence the currency during his 1997-1999 tenure as a vice finance minister, is more skeptical. He told a conference in Tokyo on March 11 that the yen is still cheaper than when he sold dollars a decade ago.

``The yen is still pretty much weak against major currencies such as the euro,'' Sakakibara said.

`Excessive Movements'

Policy makers are still stepping up their rhetoric. Trichet said March 10 that he's ``concerned'' about the euro's surge, while Nukaga said today that ``excessive movements'' are undesirable.

O'Neill also senses a shift in the Bush administration's stance. Paulson said on March 7 that ``the long-term fundamentals are strong, and I'm confident they'll be reflected in our currency market.''

O'Neill said G-7 finance ministers may sound an alarm when they convene in Washington on April 11, perhaps by inserting Paulson's statement of support for the dollar.

``A change in the G-7 statement is highly likely in April,'' said O'Neill. ``Whether they can last until then without doing anything is another question.''

Last Updated: March 13, 2008 15:50 EDT

I've known about this video series for few months now, but I decided to share it with the rest of you all here.

I highly encourage anyone to watch it. It's very educational and it shows how the Federal Reserve Banking system works (no it is not an office of the US government but a private enterprise).

If this doesn't get you mad I won't know what will

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy-fD78zyvI

Nope does not get me mad, but chuckle.
Does the Word not warn enough about earthly attachments?

God is certainly amazing and he gives out many signs to forewarn. Now, I didn't see the connection until today with some very recent events.

On March 16 there was a crane collapse in New York the same day a large investment firm Bear Stern collapsed.

Well, its happened again except there's even a greater sign. A crane collapsed on a house at a construction site in Miami today. Also a part of a huge Antarctic ice chunk was reported today as collapsing. Get this the news report says the shelf is seven times the size of Manhattan, a subliminal reference to Wall Street. Both news events that I believe portends of more economic strife.

I don't believe in coincidences, either. It's not a Kosher word.

Crane Story
http://www.local10.com/news/15703171/detail.html

Antarctic Story
http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/03/25...e.ap/index.html

So HB,

So what do you think all these things mean at a spiritual level.

Hi Marc. I don't have a clue.

LOL I love you brother ))))))))))HUG((((((((((((((

Greetings all. I bump this thread up once in a while to remind folks on my belief that Revelation 16:21 is actually a prophecy for an economic collapse. Its a way for me to mark the time as to where things are regarding prophecy and the eventual return of Christ. The economic situation has been a long while in the making and more and more stronger signs emerge.

I never thought it would come this this way with the real estate market collapsing, oil prices sky rocketing (I did say that the US dollar would collapse in value, though). I do feel the economic pinch myself but my faith is in the Lord Jesus Christ to see me through this national and global mess.

Anyway, more bad news as the media becomes open in what may happen next. Honestly, there are things said behind closed doors in sotto voce that are meant for the public to never know, but when the bed is burning it hard to keep it a secret from the people sleeping in it.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/stor...C-8DDF75D838DA}

another story of a crane collapse.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/05/30/crane.collapse/index.html