I found this question posed on another forum. Interestingly enough, this particular forum has had increased 'Christian' activity lately. Various questions posed etc.....I find it interesting because a year ago - there were very few christian based threads there. Maybe we're more willing to under go the mild and not so mild persecution that goes on in these non-christian forums. Anyways - here goes.

OP - asks the question - in the bible...who is the Morning Star?

Sensible respondent replies....

Depends on which Bible translation you are using.

Check this out....
How you have fallen from heaven,
O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!
Isaiah 14:12 NIV


How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isaiah 14:12 KJV


"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you[a] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."
Revelation 22:16 NIV

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Revelation 22:16 KJV

Reading the two translations, it appears as if Lucifer is the Morning Star in the NIV and that Jesus is the offspring of David and Lucifer?!


Please bear in mind the last sentence is not my opinion. I suggested that with the casting down of satan, that Christ was then entitled to assume the title......which is just a fairly dumb explanation. The other is that it is a human title given to Christ as well as satan.


WOuld be interested in your ideas

The word Satan means "the accuser". It is not the Adversary's proper name, anymore than Lucifer was before he fell. The devil's real name is Heylel which means 'Morning Star' or 'Bright One', for that is what he once was. And to this very day he still poses as the unfallen 'Morning Star' and 'Bright One', luring and deceiving mankind. His intent is to gain worship of people and he is allowed to operate in the earth to lie and deceive, in order to test humans. He is intent on whispering in the ears of people and causing them to rebel against the wonderful and merciful God who created them. And the serpent said to the woman, "You will not die!

The term morning star is only reference in the Isaiah 14:12, refers to either Satan or Nebuchednezzar. This is similar to the King of Tyre who also has charracteristics of Satan.

In Revelation 22:16, Yeshua refers to Himself as "the bright and morning star."
Yeshua (Jesus) is the morning star and source of light. That is clear in Revelation 22:16 - I, Jesus have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and offspring of David, the bright morning star.

Hello MM, I have come across this before a few years back when it was pointed out to me and it has made me leary of the other bible translations ever since. I've relied primarily on KJV, while other translations are "secondary" (Old English is hard to follow at times).

If anything, the inconsistency is a fault in our ability to properly receive and understand the Spirit of God, especially a person who had made that ridiculous inference about David and Lucifer with Jesus.

They've made a non sequitor from an error compounding the error. Basically, KJV right, NIV wrong (IMHO)

HB

I have read that the ONLY true translation is the King James Version, who translates correctly by quoting "Lucifer", while the other version you quote mentions "Morning Star". These two are not the same.

Jesus in Revelation is called "Morning Star". Associating Jesus with Lucifer is plain blasphemy!

BTW, I said I was going to buy a KJV, well, I found a version in my house two days ago! (I had gotten it at a goodwill store a year ago and forgot about it!)

For Lucifer:

Greek "son"
) son, grandson, child, member of a group

a) son, male child

B ) grandson

c) children (pl. - male and female)

d) youth, young men (pl.)

e) young (of animals)

f) sons (as characterisation, i.e. sons of injustice [for un- righteous men] or sons of God [for angels]g) people (of a nation) (pl.)

h) of lifeless things, i.e. sparks, stars, arrows (fig.)

i) a member of a guild, order, class


and "shachar {shakh'-ar}" which means

1) dawn


a) dawn

B ) at dawn (as adverb)

So maybe it could be "angel of the dawn"

and if we look at Revelation at Jesus...He is the BRIGHT AND morning star

Rev 22:16 I 1473 Jesus 2424 have sent 3992 mine 3450 angel 32 to testify 3140 unto you 5213 these things 5023 in 1909 the churches 1577. I 1473 am 1510 the root 4491 and 2532 the offspring 1085 of David 1138, [and] the bright 2986 and 2532 morning 3720 star 792.

Bright:1) shining

a) brilliant

B ) clear, transparent

2) splendid, magnificent

a) splendid things i.e. luxuries or elegancies in dress or style


and:( I always wondered about the "and", why not just bright morning star? )

1) and, also, even, indeed, but. (apparently, a primary particle, having a copulative and sometimes also a cumulative force)


morning:There is one verse containing the words morning* orthrinos (Strong's 3720) . It is not an exact phrase match:

(Reminds me that Jesus id the only ONE )

here is means :
1) early


and star:

1) a star

Oh , I believe the Holy Spirit just showed me something here, while I was looking at this. Remember Abraham's promise from God? Your descendants will be like the stars of heaven. SO here the Word is saying ..Jesus is the Bright , Brilliant, Magnificent, Splendid, Clear, Shining, ......EARLY (like in first) Star....we are all the children (stars) of Abraham.
Jesus is the First... (early), so He was even BEFORE Abraham was He IS.

So as it looks to me, the "Bright" is independent to being a "star", which makes sense, as Jesus is shining with Glory ...the Glory does not depend on Him being part of the "Star"
Does this make sense?
Its rather beautiful and leaves Lucifers verse pale in comparison.

Hmm...
Seems like Satin is trying to pretend he is something that he is not. Seamingly the same, yet truly opposite... Isn't that what Anti means?

If Morning Star = Christ
then Anti-Morning star = Anti-christ

aint that the truth !
C

Also thought about somthing last night...
You know how they say that Jesus was hanged on a tree...
Didn't Judus hang himself on a tree too?
Hmmm...

And I remember reading that the place Judas hanged himself is now a gabage dump

What happened to Gasemathie? (love that word Im gonna name my son that... Or my dog...)
I think i read somthing about it somewhere but i cant remember...

I love the way that God uses images and metaphores.

"I love the way that God uses images and metaphores."

Yes me too. The Bible has so many layers of truth. God talks about all things , He just has to tune our spirit.Parables in parables, shadows and types. Whole stories and revelations locked up in names. Distance becomes years, measurements become prophetic. Whole stories, tells about us today and what will be.
So awesome, so incredible. Limitless in its glory, limitless in its power, limitless in its revelation. The Word Who is God, was with Him, is Him.

Here is a reply to someone who studied the NIV and found it calling satan the morning star....This is in response to his study...


http://jesus-is-lord.com/nivsatan.htm

FROM BRO. GARY:

Tracy.........having read on your sight that the NIV bible replaced Lucifer with the name morning star inspired me to do some research. I have known of the many many faults in all new bibles other than the old KJV, and we don't have to look hard to find them, this was the icing on the cake. I am and have been for a long time a KJV only man.

When I looked up the name Lucifer in my new edition of Webster's dictionary, the definition of Lucifer was morning star. As we know, Jesus Christ the Lord is the morning star. Knowing by faith and study the KJV is the pure word of God, and does not contradict itself, I knew that this could not be right. Looking in an older (1960's) encyclopedia, Lucifer does not mean morning star, as the dictionary tells us, nor does it mean day star. Lucifer was a name given to the planet Venus, by ancient astromaners in Latin, meaning as you pointed out, light bearer. Venus will sometimes appear as a morning star, however, it is not a star at all, but a planet that reflects the light of the sun. I hope you see the difference here. These folks knew that this was a planet body, rather than an actual star. How well does this fit satan? Very well indeed....because he is now the phony star, not the morning star. So to tell us that Lucifer means morning star is not accurate at all, because it is only half of the truth, which means it is a lie, and satan is the father of liars. We know and should not be surprised that satan will transform himself into an angel of light, but, he most definitly is not an angel of light, just as venus appears as a star, but it has no light of it's own, and is not a star at all. I hope this clarifies this with folks that may believe that Lucifer means morning star. Thank you for your time, in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour...

Lucifer became a king of a seaport, Tyrus. A better known name is Tyre. A telltale sign of where we are is found in Ezekiel 28:5, 'By thy great wisdom and by thy TRAFFIC hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches.' Go to verse 16 in Ezekiel, 'By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore, I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.' That is something to think about and really ponder next time you go to Wal-Mart. On to verse 19: 'And they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: and thou shalt be a terror, and NEVER shalt thou be anymore.'
So, Lucifer or Satan or the serpent, the deceiver is NO MORE.
Go to Hebrews and find out why Christ came. Because the brothers of Christ were flesh, Christ took on the form of a slave to save some.
The new world will not have merchandise or titles. The new world will not have the need of any star for light or any sun for growth. The bright Morning Star is NO MORE. It is not morning anymore. It is noonday.

As for the names Jesus and Lucifer being man given names, you could say that, because Peter called Immanuel Christ. Joseph was told to name him Jesus and that he was fulfilling a prophesy of a son being named Immanuel. Lucifer was called the 'annointed cherub that covers.' You have to understand the Greek form of those words. It means the distribution of duties that would identify; the distributor of the gifts of God. Jesus the Christ said, 'And behold I come quickly and my reward is with me to give to every man according as his work shall be.'
Jesus the Christ, Immanuel, 'God with us,' Jesus did not assume any function of any creature or being or angel. The old life is no more, it just takes time to dissolve or be burned up. Volcanoes will come and cover everything with lava. The earth will start anew as it has done these billions of years.

There are to morning stars 1 real 1 fake The morning star in revelation is true the one in isaiah is fake....

In my opinion, this stud is biased because he is a KJV only man, and i do not think it is the most accaurate, also going to an older dictionary doesn't prove anything because it's a dictionary written by someone who might not know the Bible very well.

Here's the verse as I have it,(The NT one.)
Revelation 22:16
16 I Jesus have sent mine :angel to witness to you these things over the
churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright, the morning :star.

ISAIAH 14;12
AMPLIFIED BIBLE

the foot-note in my AMPLIFIED BIBLE........Isa 14;12
says
"Light-bringer" or "Shining one" was originally translated LUCIFER, but because of the association of that name with Satan it is not now used. Some students feel that the application of the name LUCIFER to Satan, in spite of the long and confidant teaching to that effect, is erroneous. LUCIFER , THE LIGHT BRINGER, is the Latin equivalent of the Greek word PHOSPHOROS, which is used as a title of Christ in 2 Peter 1;19 and corresponds to the name "bright Morning Star" in Rev 22;16, which Jesus called Himself. The application has existed since the third century AD, and is based on the supposition that Luke 10;18 is an explanation of Isaiah 14;12, which some authorities feel is not ture.



http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?searc...amp;version=45;



12How have you fallen from heaven, O [b]light-bringer and daystar, son of the morning! How you have been cut down to the ground, you who weakened and laid low the nations [O blasphemous, satanic king of Babylon!]

13And you said in your heart, I will ascend to heaven; I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will sit upon the mount of assembly in the uttermost north.

14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.

15Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol (Hades), to the innermost recesses of the pit (the region of the dead).

16Those who see you will gaze at you and consider you, saying, Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms?--

17Who made the world like a wilderness and overthrew its cities, who would not permit his prisoners to return home?

18All the kings of the nations, all of them lie sleeping in glorious array, each one in his own sepulcher.

19But you are cast away from your tomb like a loathed growth or premature birth or an abominable branch [of the family] and like the raiment of the slain; and you are clothed with the slain, those thrust through with the sword, who go down to the stones of the pit [into which carcasses are thrown], like a dead body trodden underfoot.

20You shall not be joined with them in burial, because you have destroyed your land and have slain your people. May the descendants of evildoers nevermore be named!

21Prepare a slaughtering place for his sons because of the guilt and iniquity of their fathers, so that they may not rise, possess the earth, and fill the face of the world with cities.

22And I will rise up against them, says the Lord of hosts, and cut off from Babylon name and remnant, and son and son's son, says the Lord.

23I will also make it a possession of the hedgehog and porcupine, and of [c]marshes and pools of water, and I will sweep it with the broom of destruction, says the Lord of hosts.

24The Lord of hosts has sworn, saying, Surely, as I have thought and planned, so shall it come to pass, and as I have purposed, so shall it stand--

25That I will break the Assyrian in My land, and upon My mountains I will tread him underfoot. Then shall the [Assyrian's] [d]yoke depart from [the people of Judah], and his burden depart from their shoulders.

26This is the [Lord's] purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth [regarded as conquered and put under tribute by Assyria]; and this is [His omnipotent] hand that is stretched out over all the nations.

27For the Lord of hosts has purposed, and who can annul it? And His hand is stretched out, and who can turn it back?

28In the year that King Ahaz [of Judah] died there came this mournful, inspired prediction (a burden to be lifted up):

29Rejoice not, O Philistia, all of you, because the rod [of Judah] that smote you is broken; for out of the serpent's root shall come forth an adder [King Hezekiah of Judah], and its [the serpent's] offspring will be a fiery, flying serpent.©

30And the firstborn of the poor and the poorest of the poor [of Judah] shall feed on My meadows, and the needy will lie down in safety; but I will kill your root with famine, and your remnant shall be slain.


--------------------

Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Ephesians 5;11 Amplified Bible
11Take no part in and have no fellowship with the fruitless deeds and enterprises of darkness, but instead [let your lives be so in contrast as to] [d]expose and reprove and convict them.

THE WHOLE WORLD, AND TIME ITSELF, REVOLVES AROUND JESUS CHRIST.
either,...... you're busy promoting Him, ........or you're busy fighting Him,....... (whether you realize it or not).


dennis mann

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Find Member's Posts Nov 1 2007, 02:30 AM Post #69


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isa 14;12

12How have you fallen from heaven, O light-bringer and daystar, son of the morning! How you have been cut down to the ground


IMO, God is mocking satan, calling him the SUN-GOD............satan claims to be the sun-god (O light-bringer and daystar, son of the morning!)

(the son of the morning is the sun)

satan is a cheap substitute of the TRUE DAY-STAR (JESUS)...........REV 22;16


--------------------

Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Ephesians 5;11 Amplified Bible
11Take no part in and have no fellowship with the fruitless deeds and enterprises of darkness, but instead [let your lives be so in contrast as to] [d]expose and reprove and convict them.

THE WHOLE WORLD, AND TIME ITSELF, REVOLVES AROUND JESUS CHRIST.
either,...... you're busy promoting Him, ........or you're busy fighting Him,....... (whether you realize it or not).


dennis mann

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Find Member's Posts Nov 1 2007, 02:38 AM Post #70


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IS THE COMET A .........FAKE-STAR?

IS SATAN A .........FAKE-GOD?

ISAIAH 14;22...........GOD WILL DESTROY SATAN AND BABYLON.



21Prepare a slaughtering place for his sons because of the guilt and iniquity of their fathers, so that they may not rise, possess the earth, and fill the face of the world with cities.

22And I will rise up against them, says the Lord of hosts, and cut off from Babylon name and remnant, and son and son's son, says the Lord.

23I will also make it a possession of the hedgehog and porcupine, and of [c]marshes and pools of water, and I will sweep it with the broom of destruction, says the Lord of hosts.

24The Lord of hosts has sworn, saying, Surely, as I have thought and planned, so shall it come to pass, and as I have purposed, so shall it stand--

25That I will break the Assyrian in My land, and upon My mountains I will tread him underfoot. Then shall the [Assyrian's] [d]yoke depart from [the people of Judah], and his burden depart from their shoulders.

26This is the [Lord's] purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth [regarded as conquered and put under tribute by Assyria]; and this is [His omnipotent] hand that is stretched out over all the nations.

27For the Lord of hosts has purposed, and who can annul it? And His hand is stretched out, and who can turn it back?



--------------------

Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Ephesians 5;11 Amplified Bible
11Take no part in and have no fellowship with the fruitless deeds and enterprises of darkness, but instead [let your lives be so in contrast as to] [d]expose and reprove and convict them.

THE WHOLE WORLD, AND TIME ITSELF, REVOLVES AROUND JESUS CHRIST.
either,...... you're busy promoting Him, ........or you're busy fighting Him,....... (whether you realize it or not).


dennis mann

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Find Member's Posts Nov 1 2007, 02:45 AM Post #71


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in most ancient POLY-THEISTIC religions and cultures........the sun-god was the MOST POWERFUL GOD
egypt had her RA

the sun is the most powerful and obvious HEAVENLY POWER (PHYSICALLY speaking)

and satan wants to be the MOST HIGH GOD, so he claims to be the SUN-GOD.

satan is RA.

Fun facts: Cocaine was apparently a "gift" from the sun-god to indigenous South-Americans.

Some gift! Lol.

MadMickie,

When I first gave my life to Jesus...I was shown 2 bright yellow round stars??? I saw every single day for a couple of months straight!

Now...In the spirit I have heard: "Ringworm." When I looked it up on the computor, it is a cleansing herb [used in alcohol?]
But it goes on to say: "It is a star which will appear before Armagedeon." Has anyone ever heard of this? The very next day after hearing "Ringworm..." I had a vision: As I was walking to the store I saw in the sky, a white cloud. Instead of the cloud going from side to side as most clouds do...this one was straight up & down!!! Then it formed like a snake's head!!! Then quicly turned into Jesus Fist breaking thru the clouds!!!


Ryxennesu

Here's a reference to there being more than one morning star.

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

This verse is describing what was going on during the creation of the earth etc.
Apparently there are more than one. Seems likely there are two. We know Satan fell, and, he is mentioned as a morning star. Before he fell, apparently he was one. Jesus is one obviously. I assume now the only one. Satan, formerly a morning star, caused the fall in the garden, Jesus, apparently the only other morning star, came to undo the works of the first who fell and caused man to sin and death to enter the world. Jesus, The morning star, was sent to undo the work of the one who fell.

The whole world is under the fallen morning star, Satan
1Jn 5:19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in the evil one.

But soon, will be under The Morning Star.. Jesus
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God the Almighty, and the Lamb, are the temple thereof.
Rev 21:23 And the city hath no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine upon it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the lamp thereof is the Lamb.
Rev 21:24 And the nations shall walk amidst the light thereof: and the kings of the earth bring their glory into it.

It's Morning Star verses Fallen Morning star.

Apparently, that's why the Morning Star.. Jesus, had to become a man. To redeem us from the other one.

In looking into what Leviathan means....in answer to a post yesterday, I came across:


Isaiah 27:1 In that day the Lord with His sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and He shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.


As discussed in the other thread, leviathan is Satan....he is the piercing serpent (pierced Christ) in the sea (of people) and he shall be slayed.


Why I bring this up in relation to your post is this. In the description of leviathan we are shown:

Leviathan #3882 ~ livyathan, from 3867; a wreathed animal, i.e. a serpent (espec. the crocodile or some other large sea-monster); fig. the constellation of the dragon, also as a symbol of Babylon: - leviathan, mourning.

One word really stands out..."mourning." This is very far-fetched, but it is funny to me that our Saviour is the Morning Star. Is Lucifer, Satan, Levithan the.....mourning star? It probably has nothing to do with it but it is odd for "mourning" to be stuck on the end of the definition of Leviathan.


Something else to think about.......Whirlwind

The key to understanding the difference between the description of satan and Jesus is the word BRIGHT.

satan is described as a morning star.

Jesus is the BRIGHT Morning Star...the one who gives out the light.

That is true. I wonder how many will understand that the fake morning star comes first? How many will be taken in by his deception?


The "serpent" in [Gen.3:1] is in Hebrew, Nachash....a shining one. The old serpent [2 Cor.11:3] is transformed as an angel of light. He will be very deceptive.


...Whirlwind

YAY, WE FINALLY AGREE ON SOMETHING. PRAISE GOD!!!

........Whirlwind

Lol!!!!!! Omgoshgeewillickers!, lol. That's Totally funny. Mourning star. Lol!

can anyone tell me how come I am unable to post up a topic starting thread with my own questioning? Thank you

Hi BibleScholar......You have to reply to a few posts first and then you can post. I'm not certain how many but believe it is just 5 or so.


Welcome to the forum........Whirlwind

thank you senior poster
and I've noticed that this thread is old when first started. Wow, what a way to bring back a topic for discussion

They are both called "morning star" why? Because they both come in the "morning" of the Lord's day.

Satan is cast out of heaven at the beginning of the Millenial reign.

Jesus is also on earth at the same time, like in the NT when Satan was with Jesus in the wilderness.

Also notice in the western sky the morning star is the brightess star before day break...

Jesus resurrected before daybreak as we see when Mary found the tomb empty.