http://koti.phnet.fi/elohim/baptism_of_the_Holy_Spirit

During the next pages, we are going to examine teachings on the baptism of the Holy Spirit, to which the next verses among other things refer. In the Bible it is also called by other names like filling with the Holy Spirit, the gift of the Holy Spirit, the promise of the Father, power from on high and so on, but we will use the baptism of the Holy Spirit in this text.

In the page of Jari Iivanainen is some good points relating to this subject.

Praise God PetriFB it is a good subject to talk about. It should be under Bible Study, but I am leaving it here.
I pray for the wisdom of God and that God will give light to those who need it
blessings C

John 14:16,17

"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, tht he may abide with you for ever;

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him; but ye know him for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you"

Signet

Amen ..........

A very tuff subject from one faith to another.

Worthlittle, there are many faiths, but there is only one Spirit and one cannon, so it is always possible to approach things with the desire for enlightenment and in the spirit of Love.

I have a question, if I may. I have always thought that the Spirit, whom I call Richard, lives within us and will "never leave us" but I was just told by my pastor last week that it is Jesus that lives within us and the Spirit who guides us.

Now I understand that they are seperate and that they are one, I do not want to go there for that is another study entirely. But, I do know that Jesus was not praying to Himself in the garden as well and that when He cried out to the Father, He was not talking to Himself so I am going to come from the vantage point that I can actually see a space between them...I beg your pardon.

So...don't laugh....but who is it in there?

leia

Agreed , "many faiths , one Holy Spirit ". I'm not laughing , but I have never heard HS called "Richard" By "tuff" I meant the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the speaking in tonges thingy . The subject seems to open up Pandura's box when talked about . The mystery of the Trinity , seperate yet one , I think we will never be fully able to understand untill the veil is lifted . I think its a take it by Faith type of issue untill the veil is lifted or we reach the other side .

Ahhhhhhhh......the speaking in tongues thingy.....

Anyway, have you ever had one of those sermons preached 'directly at you' that answers all the questions you have thought about that day? Tonight was one and I just got home. But enough with the 'who is in there, anyway?" question.

I have had the pleasure, I think that is what it was, of having my perfectly sane grandmother who raised me in the Lord and saved me from becoming like the rest of the people around me...unsaved and, well, dangerous....speak in tongues right next me in church. That was bad enough but then my pappa did too once and I KNEW he was the most reasonable, level headed person I ever met talking insane.

They told me later that if I was not able to open myself up to speaking in tongues then I was, in effect, preventing Richard from coming into my "heart" and life and I would not be saved from eternal torment. Really. My only source of religious people said that to me. I could not, Worthlittle. I just could not. Still can not.

I can not be irrational intentionally. I can not become so undisciplined and in control of myself to accept behavior that I do not understand.

I resigned myself to going to hell. I really did. I love you Lord, and if you need me to do that then I love you that much too.

It was very difficult to come out of that, so strong wsa their influence. Even now I think "what if they are right?"

I guess I will know soon.

leia

P.S. Thank you for not laughing. Richard is His name because I was very young, a mere toddeler when I knew I loved the Master. And the Father was Jehovah and the son was Jesus but the Spirit was just 'the spirit' (remember, I couldn't read yet enough to understand the capital letters thingy) so I asked Him if he like the name Richard. To me, it is strength and dedication and command of oneself. A great name for such as Him. He just laughed and said it was "good".

The scripture I referenced doesn't discuss "tongues". If you want to
discuss that then read about the gifts in Corinthians...Tongues, is a gift
the requires the flesh to bow...all of the gifts are. What the temporal
mind cannot comprehend the Spirit does...and works with us and within
us at all times.

Blessings,
Signet

Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
-----

leia I love you. You are wonderful!

I think your grandmother and pappa were wrong to imply that if you don't speak in tongues you'll suffer eternal torment. I hope I'm not sounding like a know it all... The Lord told us that he is the way, truth and life... and that he'd send the Holy Spirit to comfort us... speaking in tongues is merely one gift of the Spirit... like 1 Cor 8-11 : the word of wisdom, word of knowledge, faith, the gifts of healing, the working of miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits, the interpretation of tongues...

The Spirit is our comforter.

Galatians 4:6
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Ephesians 3:17
That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

1 Corinthians 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Ephesians 1:12,13
That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


Dani

Dani,
Totally awesome reply! Those are some of the very same verses I rely on when discussing this topic with others.
I have been in a church omce that said the same thing - "All believers SHOULD speak in tongues" to prove they have been baptized by the HOLY SPIRIT. There are other gifts that are from the HOLY SPRIT as well - none are more important than the other.
Thanks!

Todd

Hi Leia,

The Holy Spirit and Jesus both reside within our spirit, because Jesus and the Spirit are the same, and we are one spirit with them:

2 Cor 3:17 "Now the Lord is the Spirit..."
1 Cor 6:17 "But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him."

The Holy Spirit seeks no glory for Himself, but joys in revealing the presence of Jesus Christ within us:

Col 1:27 "Christ in you, the hope [confidence] of glory [His manifest presence inside of us]"
Eph 3:17 "so that Christ may dwell in your hearts [the human spirit] through faith"
Gal 2:20 "it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me..."

There are many more verses that explain this, or make reference to it. Usually when the term "in Christ" is used by Paul he is refencing that Jesus Christ lives in us... bottom line is that Jesus Christ dwells inside you by the Holy Spirit... yes, He is seated at the right hand of the Father in heaven, but He also dwells within you, only an omnipresent God could do this. So when you pray, seek the Lord who resides within you and you will find Him there if you wait in silence, in patience, and looking with the eyes of your spirit.

Blessings,

Caneman

Thanks, I feel sheepish....

You ever went through a sermon when all the questions you had during the week were answered at once? God is good. And that happened last night. My preacher is so wonderfully led...and after a whole night of clearing up in my mind what he could not have know I was grappling with, he closed with the "grace of the Jesus who lives ithin us through the Holy Spirit" and I understood.

I am aware of the whole three in one...seperate but inseperable for they are all god but together they are God.

I love you guys.

leia

Leia,
You make me smile ! Perhaps if you found yourself in the right situation you would'nt think of speaking in tounges as "insane". Some years ago I found myself at the bottom of the barrel . It's a place none of us like to be in, but God is able to get alot of work done on us cause we have no place to run and hide . I also felt , for lack of a better word "emberased" about praying in the Spirit . So here I am at the bottom of the barrel and no clue of what to pray or how to pray or even the energy to pray if I knew what to pray !! The Holy Spirit prayed for me through me and from then on it never seemed nuts to me again .

I am so glad that we are all different....I would love to worship with all of you.

Y'all could just jabber away happily and I would be happy for you, smiling all the time for you and pround of you.... while I make supper. Mary's heart...the hands of Martha. Yours is undoubtably the better part.

leia

HI,

The first time I heard tongues I didn't know what it was it sounded
like angels singing. I closed my eyes and for those moments at
the end of the service I was transported.

then I knew what it was but I did not know the Bible or anything about
the gifts.

Anyway, I got a call from a friend in the ministry who was a
musician and had traveled the country through prayer and song.
She fell under such an attack that she could hardly move...it was
night time and she had asked a couple over that had a Christian
broadcast, very dedicated to God's people. And there were 2
others in the ministry.

We arrived. We sat at the table at first because this was a shared
home, so we were limited and time was of the essence. We
took hands and began to pray against attack that was manifesting
in fear, sirens, doors slamming, helocopters, stray cats running
through the house...you get the picture.

We pressed in praising God, then moving into intercession. As
we were joined in holding hands the others began praying in
tongues...at the same time I felt electricity flow through our hands
and I just prayed scripture. It got so intense that we had to go
out to the car, everyone piled in and continue....

This went on for several hours...at the end God revealed somethings
and we got ready to leave. I asked the minister about the
electricity...He just said...do you have 20 minitutes a day to praise God.
I said yes. He told me not to ask for anything but to praise him and
thank him. I said I would. Since I was not working at that time
I had hours to spend praising and would spend a couple hours in
the am and pm on my knees...pretty soon I was singing, not a
song I knew , but singing...and my voice went up...a pretty soon I
was singing with words and sounds that I did not know ....I that
is how God brought this gift to me.

For along time, I have been walking in my faith about 21 years,
in recent years since I have moved several times over the years
I haven't always been in churches that teach on the gifts(sad)
and kinda put it aside.

It the last 2 years God has told me to plow the fields, break up
to fallow ground...and that is what it means. So because things
are getting so intense I spend my private time praying. Praying
in tongues is for edification between God and myself....Even in
church for the interpretation the God wants to bring forth, but all
things in order.

So much of this, the gifts, are based upon our traditions. I can
tell you before I heard tongues in the first "born again" church
I had no idea of what it was...However, my flesh was not affended
and it was beautiful to me. Even so it was a few more years
after that the I got simple instruction.

I later contacted the ministry couple. I told them what had happen
and how blessed I was for the practical guidance...never new when
I asked about the electricity that the outcome would be a gift.

I sounds silly to pray without knowing what the words are, sometimes
you will get the words...and interpret your own praying...or you will
surpass your want-need list and be lifted to something outside
yourself that will touch your heart and God's heart.

Now as far as doctrine...well, God gives gifts...and commandments,
and the Bible, and Jesus, and the Holy Spirit...one or three, He is not
totally apprehendable in any of our understanding and is the source that we cannot comprehend. We cannot even begin a relationship without a
renewed mind. However, all of the Bible is good for instruction and
reproof...and God is the Gift and the Giver. He is the same, yesterday, today
and always...

Gods way is not man's way...what be it to Martha what Mary doesl
unto the Lord.

Blessings,
Signet

I had to search to even find this thread! But it has worried me for the last week, just as it always has since my Penticostal grandmother told me that I had to speak in tongues or I was not really saved....scary.

Well, I had been pondering and asking about it and then one day in the choir loft while we were singing...I began to sing different words as I often do. Same music, but different sentences....and it happens enough that I can talk and listen to myself at the same time now. Both say it and learn from what I am saying; like looking at myself as two people.

When questioned about it, I was told "well THAT is the Holy Spirit, you know!"

I never considered this. It is just something that has happened for many years. Could this be the case? It is not in a language that I don't understand....any it only happens when I am singing, because that is when I am most free with emotions. Otherwise, I have to confess, I am more comfortable under control.

What sway you forum? Is this "Him" or is it just weird?"

leia

only you know for sure...

I say Amen.