Creation:

"How you believe doesn't affect the doctrine, either at a certain moment in evolution God breathed into one particular ape-man who was Adam, or God could have taken a handful of dust and blowed and created a man just like that."


How would you assess this person and his statement?

Well, I am guessing that due to his capitalization of G-d, he IS a believer...those who are not tend to not care that to capitalize His name for believers is an issue of commen respect.

I would say that this statement coming from someone that is supposed to be a Christian is absolutely ludicrous, for if I am understanding it correctly, he is lending some credence to the darwin ape theory of evolution, if not directly.

Basically, with this statement he is saying that since man was made in the image of God, that God COULD or WOULD have to be an ape of some sort or have ape-like features. It's just a strange statement to make. Needless to say, I didn't know there was a choice.

"How you believe doesn't affect the doctrine. Either at a certain moment in evolution God breathed into one particular ape-man who was Adam, or God could have taken a handful of dust and blowed and created a man just like that" (Billy Graham, 'United Church Observer' 'Sunday Magazine' June 1966).

Well done Shaun! You've done your homework. I wasn't trying to set up anyone, but was interested in how others would react to his statement.

Graham was the same guy who said that pope John Paul II was the most respected religious leader in the world. And as you know, Romanism rejects creationism in favour of evolution ... go figure.

Comments appreciated from others about Graham's statement.

I believe the person is saying God can do what ever he wants. He's saying what you believe doesn't effect the reality of truth...Which is the word.

Since it was taken out of context to the whole.... people might think it means something it doesn't.

Taken out of context in what way, may I ask?

The context in which it was spoken.

Well, that's much more clear, thank you.

Needless to say, whether you think it was "taken out of context", which seems to be the thing to say now days to try and give someone an out, he is still saying presenting the possibility for the ape thing and giving the people that might believe this some kind of a foothold in their belief.

What I'm trying to say is that the Adam Ape man thing IS NOT biblical, so why even say it when pointing to belief?

In his statement he is pointing to the possiblity of and subscribing to theistic evolution, which is false, but he says basically it doesn't matter if you believe in this view or God creating man out of dust (which is Biblical), what is is. You can't point to something false and give it possibility as a Christian and then say whatever happened happened.

By the way this is not just a one off statment by Graham. He's said some very sketchy things throughout his life, that I imagine you can try to say it was taken out of context if you like, but they are what they are. So look at other things he's said and the statement in this topic thread will perhaps seem to be more what it actually is on the surface.


Just an example:

In 1985, Graham affirmed his belief that those outside of Christ might be saved. Los Angeles reporter David Colker asked Graham: “What about people of other faiths who live good lives but don’t profess a belief in Christ?” Graham replied, “I’m going to leave that to the Lord. He’ll decide that” (Los Angeles Herald Examiner, July 22, 1985).
There is no mystery or question about this matter, because the Bible has plainly spoken.


I think God has given us this info has he not? Context.

I think he was making the statement for effect...nothing more. He doesn't think Adam was an ape...My goodness Shaun! For example one might say for effect...If God wanted to turn the this big blue marble into a living planet he could.
Then we shouldn't say he thinks the planet is a marble...

concerning the other statement about salvation you said:



Is Abraham saved? When and how?
Where is he now and where was he after he died?

Again I say, If this was a one off thing from Graham, I would agree with you, but he has said plenty of things that one might question regarding Chrsitianity, ways to be saved etc. You don't exactly know how he meant this, honestly, it's just a perception on both of our parts. He wasn't clear enough to make it completely understandable in the first place. We just see it differently. Agree to disagree.






Abraham was saved by faith.

Paul writes, “If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. What does the Scripture say? ‘Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness’ ” (Rom. 4:2-3; cf. Gen. 15:6; Gal. 3:6-9).

But when Jesus had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy” (Heb. 10:1, 11-12, 14).

Jesus' sacrifice replaced The Old Testament Animal Sacrifices, but the difference being that Jesus' sacrifice is eternal. The Old Testament sacrifices covered their sins, but they did not completely do away with their sins. The reason they had to keep coming back is because the sacrifices did not entirely do away with their sins.



Old Testament Saints and where they are and so forth, is something that I've researched and looked at very closely.

Here's an answer that might help you, to a question that was asked about this very subject.:


The age in which one lives has no bearing on the immortality of their soul. As was stated previously, the main difference between the death of the saints before the crucifixion and resurrection of the Lord was that they were not granted immediate access to Heaven as we believers are now. Instead, they were gathered to a place of comfort and rest called Paradise which was located in Abraham’s Bosom in the heart of the Earth. There they would abide until the atonement of their souls and the payment for their sins had been accomplished by the Lord Jesus Christ’s sacrifice on the Cross (Hebrews 10). After His resurrection they were loosed from this “holding area” (Ephesians 4:8-10) and were then able to enter into Heaven where they live to this day waiting for the resurrection of their glorified bodies. We get a glimpse of this dwelling of the deceased in Luke Chapter 16 with Lazarus and the Rich Man and to a lesser extent again with Samuel in 1Samuel Chapter 28. In both cases these men are said to be dead but yet they continue to live and retain all of their mental and physical capacities that they possessed while alive here on Earth. Obviously then death in the Bible does not mean complete annihilation of a person’s being but rather the transformation from this earthly, physical existence to that of a spiritual realm. That man would cease to exist at his death or drift off into a state of unconsciousness is a false teaching propagated by various cults and is easily refuted by Scripture (Mark 9:44-48, Philippians 1:21-23, Revelations 20:4, Hebrews 12:1).

Glad you've done your homework!

Do I win a prize?





Did you ask this question regarding Abraham because you already knew the answer and wanted to see if I did, or were you truly seeking the answer?

(the above is a rhetorical question. )

Rhetorical

nd the Lord smelled a sweet savour

It sadens me to think one like B. Graham would question how God created Adam.
Did he read the BIble?

People tend to overcomplicate this fantastic book!
Since it was written by the most intelligent being in the universe, I believe it is written for our understanding.

And when I hear ANYTHING about the Catholic church, wheter it be them quoting or any one praising them, I turn a deaf ear. I was raised Catholic and the Catholic are definitely blinded spiritually!

I went to church for 20 years and NEVER heard, ney, not once, that you had to be born again in order to go to Heaven. All you had to believe is that Jesus was the son of God and do the sacraments (dead works). We never mentioned the Book of Revelation! We were told it was allegoric and fantasy to make us fear God.

HI,

Ecumenical...world church councils....ism, ism, ism



"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth". Gen 1:1

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God". John 1:1

"All things were made my him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."John1:3

Psalm 111:10
"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom"

Proverbs 8:23
"I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was"

the beginning from which all life came is the Word...creating it...speaking forth
from Wisdom which was with God...and God delighted so with their fellowship
that He created mankind to share in His delight of Jesus...

Shalom,
Signet

Stuid idoit, suits