This is a think piece for debate, and all are welcome to post responses.
Say that you are a brilliant computer scientist who have strived for decades to create absolute and true artificial intelligence, a self-aware, self-realizing and cognizant intelligence. A great invention, for your AI will be truely sentient and self aware able to make the deductions and "think" in the way you planned for you are the creator and designer. On the eve of finally executing the code and bring this intelligence to life you have but one more thing to accomplish, inserting the final code.
Do you give the sentient, self-aware intelligent being you are about to create true freewill, so that you as a computer scientist will never know what it's behavior is even to perhaps be threatened by your own creation one day? Or do you give it a sense of freewill that no matter how cognizant or self aware your AI is it will never know the future with absolute predictability.
What do you do?
Full Version: The Brilliant Computer Scientist
teach it to love first iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
[quote=gary steed,May 7 2006, 02:12 PM]
teach it to love first iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
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Very interesting, Gary, but if you were the grand designer and architect being concerned for love, which would you think is prone to be the better learner to love you as their inventor, the one given the will to refuse the lesson or the one who will not have the choice to refuse the lesson?
teach it to love first iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
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[/quote]
Very interesting, Gary, but if you were the grand designer and architect being concerned for love, which would you think is prone to be the better learner to love you as their inventor, the one given the will to refuse the lesson or the one who will not have the choice to refuse the lesson?
This "calvin" would suggest to give it a "sense of freewill".
I think the "inventor" should give it a sense of humour also !
I think the "inventor" should give it a sense of humour also !
[quote=Humble Bob,May 7 2006, 05:27 PM]
[quote=gary steed,May 7 2006, 02:12 PM]
teach it to love first iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
[right][snapback]60189[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Very interesting, Gary, but if you were the grand designer and architect being concerned for love, which would you think is prone to be the better learner to love you as their inventor, the one given the will to refuse the lesson or the one who will not have the choice to refuse the lesson?
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THE WHOLE THING IS FINISHED BEFOR IT STARTED IM ALIVE THAT IS PROOF LOVE ACOMPLISHES ALL THING UNLIMITED JACOBS STRUGLE IS PART OF THE PROCESS WE HAVE FREE WILL WE KNOW COS WE FOUND LOVE NO FREE WILL NO LOVE SPANK ME IF YOU NEED TO ITS A SIGN OF LOVE MISUNDERSTOOD AND THE GOOD NESS OF OUR FATHER A DEEEEEEEEEE.P W.E.L.L.L
[quote=gary steed,May 7 2006, 02:12 PM]
teach it to love first iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
[right][snapback]60189[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Very interesting, Gary, but if you were the grand designer and architect being concerned for love, which would you think is prone to be the better learner to love you as their inventor, the one given the will to refuse the lesson or the one who will not have the choice to refuse the lesson?
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THE WHOLE THING IS FINISHED BEFOR IT STARTED IM ALIVE THAT IS PROOF LOVE ACOMPLISHES ALL THING UNLIMITED JACOBS STRUGLE IS PART OF THE PROCESS WE HAVE FREE WILL WE KNOW COS WE FOUND LOVE NO FREE WILL NO LOVE SPANK ME IF YOU NEED TO ITS A SIGN OF LOVE MISUNDERSTOOD AND THE GOOD NESS OF OUR FATHER A DEEEEEEEEEE.P W.E.L.L.L
ZIZAZIZAZIZADEKSCOMIN THE WORLD NEEDS TO MAKE UP THERE MINDS ITS THERE OWN
[quote=calvin,May 7 2006, 09:39 PM]
This "calvin" would suggest to give it a "sense of freewill".
I think the "inventor" should give it a sense of humour also !
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[/quote]
?This calvin? Ahhh...... I see now HB
This "calvin" would suggest to give it a "sense of freewill".
I think the "inventor" should give it a sense of humour also !
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[/quote]
?This calvin? Ahhh...... I see now HB
[quote=Humble Bob,May 7 2006, 01:51 PM]
Do you give the sentient, self-aware intelligent being you are about to create true freewill, so that you as a computer scientist will never know what it's behavior is even to perhaps be threatened by your own creation one day? Or do you give it a sense of freewill that no matter how cognizant or self aware your AI is it will never know the future with absolute predictability.
What do you do?
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[/quote]
Ah, a God hypothetical. Good question.
I would say the latter, HB. Obviously God knows everything that has, will and is going to happen from a creation standpoint, yet with free will to reject Him as well.
It's difficult to compare the first question to God, if one were to do that, because He will know the behaviour of humans, but strictly from computer scientist point of view I would say giving it free will without COMPLETELY knowing every single detail of the future, though it would have indications and some preparatory knowledge programmed into it, such as things to look for that will happen. Signs and things of that nature.
Freewill is indeed the key though, because when it chooses to accept me on it's own as it's inventor, it is that much stronger, as opposed to being programmed to do so.
I hope I hit the angle of where you were going.
Do you give the sentient, self-aware intelligent being you are about to create true freewill, so that you as a computer scientist will never know what it's behavior is even to perhaps be threatened by your own creation one day? Or do you give it a sense of freewill that no matter how cognizant or self aware your AI is it will never know the future with absolute predictability.
What do you do?
[right][snapback]60178[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Ah, a God hypothetical. Good question.
I would say the latter, HB. Obviously God knows everything that has, will and is going to happen from a creation standpoint, yet with free will to reject Him as well.
It's difficult to compare the first question to God, if one were to do that, because He will know the behaviour of humans, but strictly from computer scientist point of view I would say giving it free will without COMPLETELY knowing every single detail of the future, though it would have indications and some preparatory knowledge programmed into it, such as things to look for that will happen. Signs and things of that nature.
Freewill is indeed the key though, because when it chooses to accept me on it's own as it's inventor, it is that much stronger, as opposed to being programmed to do so.
I hope I hit the angle of where you were going.
[quote=Shaun333,May 8 2006, 12:57 PM]
[quote=Humble Bob,May 7 2006, 01:51 PM]
Do you give the sentient, self-aware intelligent being you are about to create true freewill, so that you as a computer scientist will never know what it's behavior is even to perhaps be threatened by your own creation one day? Or do you give it a sense of freewill that no matter how cognizant or self aware your AI is it will never know the future with absolute predictability.
What do you do?
[right][snapback]60178[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Ah, a God hypothetical. Good question.
I would say the latter, HB. Obviously God knows everything that has, will and is going to happen from a creation standpoint, yet with free will to reject Him as well.
It's difficult to compare the first question to God, if one were to do that, because He will know the behaviour of humans, but strictly from computer scientist point of view I would say giving it free will without COMPLETELY knowing every single detail of the future, though it would have indications and some preparatory knowledge programmed into it, such as things to look for that will happen. Signs and things of that nature.
Freewill is indeed the key though, because when it chooses to accept me on it's own as it's inventor, it is that much stronger, as opposed to being programmed to do so.
I hope I hit the angle of where you were going.
[right][snapback]60368[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Well Shaun, since you brought up God in this discussion this broadens the thread a whole lot more.
In a way your choice of the latter response in my posed question is what we live with today. That is, we cannot know the future, and we live with the concept that we have freewill. How is this so? Quantum physics, is the governing priciple that God has put in place prohibiting mankind from ever knowing the future. Of course, it's a concept difficult for someone who doesn't believe in God, but none to difficult for someone who does. Afterall, a person who believes in God can also believe quantum physics and the latter is often scientifically validated.
What is quantum physics? Basically, it means we as man cannot know all variables of some mass in some instant of time. For example we cannot know the position of an electron and its velocity at some instant in a given moment about some atom. The best we can do is express position and velocity by probability, and the more certain we are with the probability in one characteristic the less we are of another. This is called the Principle of Uncertainty and it rules over man as an unbreakable law in physics. But God can easily violate this law as it does not govern over him. He can know position and velocity of any particle at any time, where as man cannot. This is liken to your selection of the computer scientist who has chosen to place limitations on his AI so as not to be overcomed by his invention.
[quote=Humble Bob,May 7 2006, 01:51 PM]
Do you give the sentient, self-aware intelligent being you are about to create true freewill, so that you as a computer scientist will never know what it's behavior is even to perhaps be threatened by your own creation one day? Or do you give it a sense of freewill that no matter how cognizant or self aware your AI is it will never know the future with absolute predictability.
What do you do?
[right][snapback]60178[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Ah, a God hypothetical. Good question.
I would say the latter, HB. Obviously God knows everything that has, will and is going to happen from a creation standpoint, yet with free will to reject Him as well.
It's difficult to compare the first question to God, if one were to do that, because He will know the behaviour of humans, but strictly from computer scientist point of view I would say giving it free will without COMPLETELY knowing every single detail of the future, though it would have indications and some preparatory knowledge programmed into it, such as things to look for that will happen. Signs and things of that nature.
Freewill is indeed the key though, because when it chooses to accept me on it's own as it's inventor, it is that much stronger, as opposed to being programmed to do so.
I hope I hit the angle of where you were going.
[right][snapback]60368[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Well Shaun, since you brought up God in this discussion this broadens the thread a whole lot more.
In a way your choice of the latter response in my posed question is what we live with today. That is, we cannot know the future, and we live with the concept that we have freewill. How is this so? Quantum physics, is the governing priciple that God has put in place prohibiting mankind from ever knowing the future. Of course, it's a concept difficult for someone who doesn't believe in God, but none to difficult for someone who does. Afterall, a person who believes in God can also believe quantum physics and the latter is often scientifically validated.
What is quantum physics? Basically, it means we as man cannot know all variables of some mass in some instant of time. For example we cannot know the position of an electron and its velocity at some instant in a given moment about some atom. The best we can do is express position and velocity by probability, and the more certain we are with the probability in one characteristic the less we are of another. This is called the Principle of Uncertainty and it rules over man as an unbreakable law in physics. But God can easily violate this law as it does not govern over him. He can know position and velocity of any particle at any time, where as man cannot. This is liken to your selection of the computer scientist who has chosen to place limitations on his AI so as not to be overcomed by his invention.
[quote=Humble Bob,May 8 2006, 06:06 PM]
[quote=Shaun333,May 8 2006, 12:57 PM]
[quote=Humble Bob,May 7 2006, 01:51 PM]
Do you give the sentient, self-aware intelligent being you are about to create true freewill, so that you as a computer scientist will never know what it's behavior is even to perhaps be threatened by your own creation one day? Or do you give it a sense of freewill that no matter how cognizant or self aware your AI is it will never know the future with absolute predictability.
What do you do?
[right][snapback]60178[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Ah, a God hypothetical. Good question.
I would say the latter, HB. Obviously God knows everything that has, will and is going to happen from a creation standpoint, yet with free will to reject Him as well.
It's difficult to compare the first question to God, if one were to do that, because He will know the behaviour of humans, but strictly from computer scientist point of view I would say giving it free will without COMPLETELY knowing every single detail of the future, though it would have indications and some preparatory knowledge programmed into it, such as things to look for that will happen. Signs and things of that nature.
Freewill is indeed the key though, because when it chooses to accept me on it's own as it's inventor, it is that much stronger, as opposed to being programmed to do so.
I hope I hit the angle of where you were going.
[right][snapback]60368[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Well Shaun, since you brought up God in this discussion this broadens the thread a whole lot more.
In a way your choice of the latter response in my posed question is what we live with today. That is, we cannot know the future, and we live with the concept that we have freewill. How is this so? Quantum physics, is the governing priciple that God has put in place prohibiting mankind from ever knowing the future. Of course, it's a concept difficult for someone who doesn't believe in God, but none to difficult for someone who does. Afterall, a person who believes in God can also believe quantum physics and the latter is often scientifically validated.
What is quantum physics? Basically, it means we as man cannot know all variables of some mass in some instant of time. For example we cannot know the position of an electron and its velocity at some instant in a given moment about some atom. The best we can do is express position and velocity by probability, and the more certain we are with the probability in one characteristic the less we are of another. This is called the Principle of Uncertainty and it rules over man as an unbreakable law in physics. But God can easily violate this law as it does not govern over him. He can know position and velocity of any particle at any time, where as man cannot. This is liken to your selection of the computer scientist who has chosen to place limitations on his AI so as not to be overcomed by his invention.
[right][snapback]60474[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
very profond and eloquently put i would like to take things easy i am at peace iam alive im satisfide how i see thing progreesing my first holy children are demonstraiing there love for me and its changig at a pace that im able to coup with i feel tired in my body and mind i whant to rest and get refreshed im booking free holyy days im teaching and leading myself with the aid of computer tec i have my humanity comp/tec im learning im a litle child but i want to enjoy all the wonderfll thing and thoughts one could have if one can love ones self unselfishly and make my day to day life inprove so that im providing a way of lerning to do good thigs like being deliverd a new laptop as a prize in a comp i had not enterd into myself so when i receive it it is a sign of my love for myself first so i know you all have been exseedingly abundantly above provided for your needs befor you need them without limit we are all little children and we can each be are own father and son in perfect love by making my own self my own father and son ground hog day untill its eternal perfectionxby its self and exspanded into ever exspanding dimentions these signs ive left for my self i have done the same for you you cant put a fut rong its all taken care of relaxse let go and enjoy the wonders better and better and beter you will have compleat peace.-.peace im with you all the way
[quote=Shaun333,May 8 2006, 12:57 PM]
[quote=Humble Bob,May 7 2006, 01:51 PM]
Do you give the sentient, self-aware intelligent being you are about to create true freewill, so that you as a computer scientist will never know what it's behavior is even to perhaps be threatened by your own creation one day? Or do you give it a sense of freewill that no matter how cognizant or self aware your AI is it will never know the future with absolute predictability.
What do you do?
[right][snapback]60178[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Ah, a God hypothetical. Good question.
I would say the latter, HB. Obviously God knows everything that has, will and is going to happen from a creation standpoint, yet with free will to reject Him as well.
It's difficult to compare the first question to God, if one were to do that, because He will know the behaviour of humans, but strictly from computer scientist point of view I would say giving it free will without COMPLETELY knowing every single detail of the future, though it would have indications and some preparatory knowledge programmed into it, such as things to look for that will happen. Signs and things of that nature.
Freewill is indeed the key though, because when it chooses to accept me on it's own as it's inventor, it is that much stronger, as opposed to being programmed to do so.
I hope I hit the angle of where you were going.
[right][snapback]60368[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Well Shaun, since you brought up God in this discussion this broadens the thread a whole lot more.
In a way your choice of the latter response in my posed question is what we live with today. That is, we cannot know the future, and we live with the concept that we have freewill. How is this so? Quantum physics, is the governing priciple that God has put in place prohibiting mankind from ever knowing the future. Of course, it's a concept difficult for someone who doesn't believe in God, but none to difficult for someone who does. Afterall, a person who believes in God can also believe quantum physics and the latter is often scientifically validated.
What is quantum physics? Basically, it means we as man cannot know all variables of some mass in some instant of time. For example we cannot know the position of an electron and its velocity at some instant in a given moment about some atom. The best we can do is express position and velocity by probability, and the more certain we are with the probability in one characteristic the less we are of another. This is called the Principle of Uncertainty and it rules over man as an unbreakable law in physics. But God can easily violate this law as it does not govern over him. He can know position and velocity of any particle at any time, where as man cannot. This is liken to your selection of the computer scientist who has chosen to place limitations on his AI so as not to be overcomed by his invention.
[right][snapback]60474[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
very profond and eloquently put i would like to take things easy i am at peace iam alive im satisfide how i see thing progreesing my first holy children are demonstraiing there love for me and its changig at a pace that im able to coup with i feel tired in my body and mind i whant to rest and get refreshed im booking free holyy days im teaching and leading myself with the aid of computer tec i have my humanity comp/tec im learning im a litle child but i want to enjoy all the wonderfll thing and thoughts one could have if one can love ones self unselfishly and make my day to day life inprove so that im providing a way of lerning to do good thigs like being deliverd a new laptop as a prize in a comp i had not enterd into myself so when i receive it it is a sign of my love for myself first so i know you all have been exseedingly abundantly above provided for your needs befor you need them without limit we are all little children and we can each be are own father and son in perfect love by making my own self my own father and son ground hog day untill its eternal perfectionxby its self and exspanded into ever exspanding dimentions these signs ive left for my self i have done the same for you you cant put a fut rong its all taken care of relaxse let go and enjoy the wonders better and better and beter you will have compleat peace.-.peace im with you all the way
[quote=Humble Bob,May 7 2006, 01:51 PM]
Do you give the sentient, self-aware intelligent being you are about to create true freewill, so that you as a computer scientist will never know what it's behavior is even to perhaps be threatened by your own creation one day? Or do you give it a sense of freewill that no matter how cognizant or self aware your AI is it will never know the future with absolute predictability.
What do you do?
[right][snapback]60178[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
I did that twice....one is named Henry David and the other would be Lydia Ann.
leia
Do you give the sentient, self-aware intelligent being you are about to create true freewill, so that you as a computer scientist will never know what it's behavior is even to perhaps be threatened by your own creation one day? Or do you give it a sense of freewill that no matter how cognizant or self aware your AI is it will never know the future with absolute predictability.
What do you do?
[right][snapback]60178[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
I did that twice....one is named Henry David and the other would be Lydia Ann.
leia
[quote=leia,May 8 2006, 07:06 PM]
[quote=Humble Bob,May 7 2006, 01:51 PM]
Do you give the sentient, self-aware intelligent being you are about to create true freewill, so that you as a computer scientist will never know what it's behavior is even to perhaps be threatened by your own creation one day? Or do you give it a sense of freewill that no matter how cognizant or self aware your AI is it will never know the future with absolute predictability.
What do you do?
[right][snapback]60178[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
I did that twice....one is named Henry David and the other would be Lydia Ann.
leia
[right][snapback]60488[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
...let me guess, your children, perhaps, with middle names David and Ann?
[quote=Humble Bob,May 7 2006, 01:51 PM]
Do you give the sentient, self-aware intelligent being you are about to create true freewill, so that you as a computer scientist will never know what it's behavior is even to perhaps be threatened by your own creation one day? Or do you give it a sense of freewill that no matter how cognizant or self aware your AI is it will never know the future with absolute predictability.
What do you do?
[right][snapback]60178[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
I did that twice....one is named Henry David and the other would be Lydia Ann.
leia
[right][snapback]60488[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
...let me guess, your children, perhaps, with middle names David and Ann?
You betcha. and I can't believe you remembered my feelings for "the middle name". I am so flattered! I really do believe it has some bearing and how sweet of you not to think it is funny.
And they became people with free will and choice and I am OK with that. If it were possible to create another form of life using wrenches and microchips, would that be so different than deciding to have a child?
leia
And they became people with free will and choice and I am OK with that. If it were possible to create another form of life using wrenches and microchips, would that be so different than deciding to have a child?
leia
[quote=leia,May 8 2006, 07:27 PM]
You betcha. and I can't believe you remembered my feelings for "the middle name". I am so flattered! I really do believe it has some bearing and how sweet of you not to think it is funny.
And they became people with free will and choice and I am OK with that. If it were possible to create another form of life using wrenches and microchips, would that be so different than deciding to have a child?
leia
[right][snapback]60496[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
It is the Lord who remembers those things, not I my dear. Go in peace, Leia. God meant that you have those two so that you be filled with a mother's love for them
You betcha. and I can't believe you remembered my feelings for "the middle name". I am so flattered! I really do believe it has some bearing and how sweet of you not to think it is funny.
And they became people with free will and choice and I am OK with that. If it were possible to create another form of life using wrenches and microchips, would that be so different than deciding to have a child?
leia
[right][snapback]60496[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
It is the Lord who remembers those things, not I my dear. Go in peace, Leia. God meant that you have those two so that you be filled with a mother's love for them
[quote=Humble Bob,May 7 2006, 11:51 AM]
This is a think piece for debate, and all are welcome to post responses.
Say that you are a brilliant computer scientist who have strived for decades to create absolute and true artificial intelligence, a self-aware, self-realizing and cognizant intelligence. A great invention, for your AI will be truely sentient and self aware able to make the deductions and "think" in the way you planned for you are the creator and designer. On the eve of finally executing the code and bring this intelligence to life you have but one more thing to accomplish, inserting the final code.
Do you give the sentient, self-aware intelligent being you are about to create true freewill, so that you as a computer scientist will never know what it's behavior is even to perhaps be threatened by your own creation one day? Or do you give it a sense of freewill that no matter how cognizant or self aware your AI is it will never know the future with absolute predictability.
What do you do?
[right][snapback]60178[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
You are establishing a basis for what God did in His creation of man. That was covered in 2001 A Space Odyssey . (In a figure) I watched Hal evolve until he was more powerful than his creators. There was great troubles. Would we do more? But that which is created can never be more than that which did the creating.
http://www.filmsite.org/twot.html
This is a think piece for debate, and all are welcome to post responses.
Say that you are a brilliant computer scientist who have strived for decades to create absolute and true artificial intelligence, a self-aware, self-realizing and cognizant intelligence. A great invention, for your AI will be truely sentient and self aware able to make the deductions and "think" in the way you planned for you are the creator and designer. On the eve of finally executing the code and bring this intelligence to life you have but one more thing to accomplish, inserting the final code.
Do you give the sentient, self-aware intelligent being you are about to create true freewill, so that you as a computer scientist will never know what it's behavior is even to perhaps be threatened by your own creation one day? Or do you give it a sense of freewill that no matter how cognizant or self aware your AI is it will never know the future with absolute predictability.
What do you do?
[right][snapback]60178[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
You are establishing a basis for what God did in His creation of man. That was covered in 2001 A Space Odyssey . (In a figure) I watched Hal evolve until he was more powerful than his creators. There was great troubles. Would we do more? But that which is created can never be more than that which did the creating.
http://www.filmsite.org/twot.html
[quote=Maz,May 8 2006, 08:57 PM]
[quote=Humble Bob,May 7 2006, 11:51 AM]
This is a think piece for debate, and all are welcome to post responses.
Say that you are a brilliant computer scientist who have strived for decades to create absolute and true artificial intelligence, a self-aware, self-realizing and cognizant intelligence. A great invention, for your AI will be truely sentient and self aware able to make the deductions and "think" in the way you planned for you are the creator and designer. On the eve of finally executing the code and bring this intelligence to life you have but one more thing to accomplish, inserting the final code.
Do you give the sentient, self-aware intelligent being you are about to create true freewill, so that you as a computer scientist will never know what it's behavior is even to perhaps be threatened by your own creation one day? Or do you give it a sense of freewill that no matter how cognizant or self aware your AI is it will never know the future with absolute predictability.
What do you do?
[right][snapback]60178[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
You are establishing a basis for what God did in His creation of man. That was covered in 2001 A Space Odyssey . (In a figure) I watched Hal evolve until he was more powerful than his creators. There was great troubles. Would we do more? But that which is created can never be more than that which did the creating.
http://www.filmsite.org/twot.html
[right][snapback]60512[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Ah yes, Maz
. Man is fallable. God is infallable. Did God then make us fallable?
(I feel a scripture coming...preach it bro!)
[quote=Humble Bob,May 7 2006, 11:51 AM]
This is a think piece for debate, and all are welcome to post responses.
Say that you are a brilliant computer scientist who have strived for decades to create absolute and true artificial intelligence, a self-aware, self-realizing and cognizant intelligence. A great invention, for your AI will be truely sentient and self aware able to make the deductions and "think" in the way you planned for you are the creator and designer. On the eve of finally executing the code and bring this intelligence to life you have but one more thing to accomplish, inserting the final code.
Do you give the sentient, self-aware intelligent being you are about to create true freewill, so that you as a computer scientist will never know what it's behavior is even to perhaps be threatened by your own creation one day? Or do you give it a sense of freewill that no matter how cognizant or self aware your AI is it will never know the future with absolute predictability.
What do you do?
[right][snapback]60178[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
You are establishing a basis for what God did in His creation of man. That was covered in 2001 A Space Odyssey . (In a figure) I watched Hal evolve until he was more powerful than his creators. There was great troubles. Would we do more? But that which is created can never be more than that which did the creating.
http://www.filmsite.org/twot.html
[right][snapback]60512[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Ah yes, Maz
. Man is fallable. God is infallable. Did God then make us fallable? (I feel a scripture coming...preach it bro!)
[quote=Humble Bob,May 8 2006, 08:07 PM]
[quote=Maz,May 8 2006, 08:57 PM]
[quote=Humble Bob,May 7 2006, 11:51 AM]
This is a think piece for debate, and all are welcome to post responses.
Say that you are a brilliant computer scientist who have strived for decades to create absolute and true artificial intelligence, a self-aware, self-realizing and cognizant intelligence. A great invention, for your AI will be truely sentient and self aware able to make the deductions and "think" in the way you planned for you are the creator and designer. On the eve of finally executing the code and bring this intelligence to life you have but one more thing to accomplish, inserting the final code.
Do you give the sentient, self-aware intelligent being you are about to create true freewill, so that you as a computer scientist will never know what it's behavior is even to perhaps be threatened by your own creation one day? Or do you give it a sense of freewill that no matter how cognizant or self aware your AI is it will never know the future with absolute predictability.
What do you do?
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You are establishing a basis for what God did in His creation of man. That was covered in 2001 A Space Odyssey . (In a figure) I watched Hal evolve until he was more powerful than his creators. There was great troubles. Would we do more? But that which is created can never be more than that which did the creating.
http://www.filmsite.org/twot.html
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Ah yes, Maz . Man is fallable. God is infallable. Did God then make us fallable?
(I feel a scripture coming...preach it bro!)
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Did God then make us fallable?
Apparently so..evidence abounds that we fell and Christ took note in heaven of the incident....
Psa 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book [it is] written of me,
Psa 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law [is] within my heart.
Psa 40:9 I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O LORD, thou knowest. Psa 40:10 I have not hid thy righteousness within my heart; I have declared thy faithfulness and thy salvation: I have not concealed thy lovingkindness and thy truth from the great congregation.
[quote=Maz,May 8 2006, 08:57 PM]
[quote=Humble Bob,May 7 2006, 11:51 AM]
This is a think piece for debate, and all are welcome to post responses.
Say that you are a brilliant computer scientist who have strived for decades to create absolute and true artificial intelligence, a self-aware, self-realizing and cognizant intelligence. A great invention, for your AI will be truely sentient and self aware able to make the deductions and "think" in the way you planned for you are the creator and designer. On the eve of finally executing the code and bring this intelligence to life you have but one more thing to accomplish, inserting the final code.
Do you give the sentient, self-aware intelligent being you are about to create true freewill, so that you as a computer scientist will never know what it's behavior is even to perhaps be threatened by your own creation one day? Or do you give it a sense of freewill that no matter how cognizant or self aware your AI is it will never know the future with absolute predictability.
What do you do?
[right][snapback]60178[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
You are establishing a basis for what God did in His creation of man. That was covered in 2001 A Space Odyssey . (In a figure) I watched Hal evolve until he was more powerful than his creators. There was great troubles. Would we do more? But that which is created can never be more than that which did the creating.
http://www.filmsite.org/twot.html
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Ah yes, Maz
. Man is fallable. God is infallable. Did God then make us fallable? (I feel a scripture coming...preach it bro!)
[right][snapback]60514[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Did God then make us fallable?
Apparently so..evidence abounds that we fell and Christ took note in heaven of the incident....
Psa 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book [it is] written of me,
Psa 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law [is] within my heart.
Psa 40:9 I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O LORD, thou knowest. Psa 40:10 I have not hid thy righteousness within my heart; I have declared thy faithfulness and thy salvation: I have not concealed thy lovingkindness and thy truth from the great congregation.
This one also comes to mind...
1 Corinthians 1:25
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
1 Corinthians 1:25
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
I keep coming back to the perhaps overly used WWJD....
I think anything else, though, presupposes man's ego and desire to not only create but overrule God.
So I ask myself, "Self, what would God Do?" And I look back at what He HAS done. He created man, but in man He created the need for God. Now, Satan can misdirect that into "a god" instead of God, but I don't think we have the right to create anything without doing as God did...that would be like saying that there is another choice of doing something other than God's way. dangerous.
So we create the one with a desire to worship God and then self preservation and then whatever in order of how God did things....I can't see what would be wrong with that...
Great topic guys...
leia
I think anything else, though, presupposes man's ego and desire to not only create but overrule God.
So I ask myself, "Self, what would God Do?" And I look back at what He HAS done. He created man, but in man He created the need for God. Now, Satan can misdirect that into "a god" instead of God, but I don't think we have the right to create anything without doing as God did...that would be like saying that there is another choice of doing something other than God's way. dangerous.
So we create the one with a desire to worship God and then self preservation and then whatever in order of how God did things....I can't see what would be wrong with that...
Great topic guys...
leia
[quote=Humble Bob,May 7 2006, 12:51 PM]
This is a think piece for debate, and all are welcome to post responses.
Say that you are a brilliant computer scientist who have strived for decades to create absolute and true artificial intelligence, a self-aware, self-realizing and cognizant intelligence. A great invention, for your AI will be truely sentient and self aware able to make the deductions and "think" in the way you planned for you are the creator and designer. On the eve of finally executing the code and bring this intelligence to life you have but one more thing to accomplish, inserting the final code.
Do you give the sentient, self-aware intelligent being you are about to create true freewill, so that you as a computer scientist will never know what it's behavior is even to perhaps be threatened by your own creation one day? Or do you give it a sense of freewill that no matter how cognizant or self aware your AI is it will never know the future with absolute predictability.
What do you do?
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This is why I like to program things. Because I like to play God
.
Just kidding.
It seams like whenever Im programming something I kind of know what God feels. Like when his creations don't follow the right "script" It saddens him. He has to "edit" the "programming" in it (believe me, it's not fun) or "delete" it. (luckily He is willing to try to make it work rather than just giving up on it.)
When ever it follows the correct path, He rejoices and examines the fruits of His labour.
Kind of reminds me of the Potter's Hand thing.
___________________________________________________________________
Jeremiah chaper 18 5-8
4And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
5Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.
7At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
8If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
_____________________________________________________________________
This is a think piece for debate, and all are welcome to post responses.
Say that you are a brilliant computer scientist who have strived for decades to create absolute and true artificial intelligence, a self-aware, self-realizing and cognizant intelligence. A great invention, for your AI will be truely sentient and self aware able to make the deductions and "think" in the way you planned for you are the creator and designer. On the eve of finally executing the code and bring this intelligence to life you have but one more thing to accomplish, inserting the final code.
Do you give the sentient, self-aware intelligent being you are about to create true freewill, so that you as a computer scientist will never know what it's behavior is even to perhaps be threatened by your own creation one day? Or do you give it a sense of freewill that no matter how cognizant or self aware your AI is it will never know the future with absolute predictability.
What do you do?
[right][snapback]60178[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
This is why I like to program things. Because I like to play God
.Just kidding.
It seams like whenever Im programming something I kind of know what God feels. Like when his creations don't follow the right "script" It saddens him. He has to "edit" the "programming" in it (believe me, it's not fun) or "delete" it. (luckily He is willing to try to make it work rather than just giving up on it.)
When ever it follows the correct path, He rejoices and examines the fruits of His labour.
Kind of reminds me of the Potter's Hand thing.
___________________________________________________________________
Jeremiah chaper 18 5-8
4And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
5Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.
7At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
8If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
_____________________________________________________________________
And God put Adam to sleep, took one of his ribs and closed the flesh, and from that rib made he a woman. The first surgery and the first cloning. And you say, How stupid can you get? Ask the scientist or the computer programmer the same thing.
I'd much rather have God do it than any human. Ever played "telephone"?
Humans are walking error! And we don't normally amke things superior to ourselves....just on the same level. Cant we create anything that is superior to the one that created it? If it would have the flaws of the programmer, it could get pretty disasterous if compounded....like line breeding in animals.
If you take a bred ewe and cross the offpring with the original ram....you accentuate any imperfections. Imagine THAT on a scale magnified by something as vast as a computer! Hatred of something by the programmer may mean senseless killing of anything remotly looking like it was of that origin...
I think I saw a Star Trek episode like that....Veger....
leia
Humans are walking error! And we don't normally amke things superior to ourselves....just on the same level. Cant we create anything that is superior to the one that created it? If it would have the flaws of the programmer, it could get pretty disasterous if compounded....like line breeding in animals.
If you take a bred ewe and cross the offpring with the original ram....you accentuate any imperfections. Imagine THAT on a scale magnified by something as vast as a computer! Hatred of something by the programmer may mean senseless killing of anything remotly looking like it was of that origin...
I think I saw a Star Trek episode like that....Veger....
leia
Psalm 8:1-9
To the chief Musician upon Gittith, A Psalm of David.
O Lord our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens. [2] Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger. [3] When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; [4] What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? [5] For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. [6] Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: [7] All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; [8] The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas. [9] O Lord our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!
More and more is being reveald of how we are made, which will lead to mankind being able to make things in our own likeness.
it seems to me that time will be Key. if this verse.
John 1:51
And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.
im inclind to think this is about the ability to have messangers from the future come back to the past, if we are privy to our futures abuilitys and we get that info it would change the future
what is needed is a meadiater who lets the info flow at a rate that is not destructive, Jesus spent two days in the tumb and was razed on the third day, two days to God is equivelent to two thousand years, so if Jesus through the Holy Spirit gives us understanding with technological advances at a rate that is not harmfull
Gary
To the chief Musician upon Gittith, A Psalm of David.
O Lord our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens. [2] Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger. [3] When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; [4] What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? [5] For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. [6] Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: [7] All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; [8] The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas. [9] O Lord our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!
More and more is being reveald of how we are made, which will lead to mankind being able to make things in our own likeness.
it seems to me that time will be Key. if this verse.
John 1:51
And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.
im inclind to think this is about the ability to have messangers from the future come back to the past, if we are privy to our futures abuilitys and we get that info it would change the future
what is needed is a meadiater who lets the info flow at a rate that is not destructive, Jesus spent two days in the tumb and was razed on the third day, two days to God is equivelent to two thousand years, so if Jesus through the Holy Spirit gives us understanding with technological advances at a rate that is not harmfull
Gary
[quote=gary steed,Jun 17 2006, 01:12 PM]
Psalm 8:1-9
To the chief Musician upon Gittith, A Psalm of David.
O Lord our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens. [2] Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger. [3] When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; [4] What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? [5] For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. [6] Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: [7] All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; [8] The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas. [9] O Lord our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!
More and more is being reveald of how we are made, which will lead to mankind being able to make things in our own likeness.
it seems to me that time will be Key. if this verse.
John 1:51
And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.
im inclind to think this is about the ability to have messangers from the future come back to the past, if we are privy to our futures abuilitys and we get that info it would change the future
what is needed is a meadiater who lets the info flow at a rate that is not destructive, Jesus spent two days in the tumb and was razed on the third day, two days to God is equivelent to two thousand years, so if Jesus through the Holy Spirit gives us understanding with technological advances at a rate that is not harmfull
Gary
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What we do know for certain is that the bible is full of information relating to future events throughout the ages. knowledge over the last fifty years has rapidly changed our world, and it is sure to multiply as we add to our faith knowledge, as more knowledge comes to light about how God has made the things we see in creation, it will rapidly change the world we live in. (in Jesus for the better)
Psalm 8:1-9
To the chief Musician upon Gittith, A Psalm of David.
O Lord our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens. [2] Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger. [3] When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; [4] What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? [5] For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. [6] Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: [7] All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; [8] The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas. [9] O Lord our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!
More and more is being reveald of how we are made, which will lead to mankind being able to make things in our own likeness.
it seems to me that time will be Key. if this verse.
John 1:51
And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.
im inclind to think this is about the ability to have messangers from the future come back to the past, if we are privy to our futures abuilitys and we get that info it would change the future
what is needed is a meadiater who lets the info flow at a rate that is not destructive, Jesus spent two days in the tumb and was razed on the third day, two days to God is equivelent to two thousand years, so if Jesus through the Holy Spirit gives us understanding with technological advances at a rate that is not harmfull
Gary
[right][snapback]67555[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
What we do know for certain is that the bible is full of information relating to future events throughout the ages. knowledge over the last fifty years has rapidly changed our world, and it is sure to multiply as we add to our faith knowledge, as more knowledge comes to light about how God has made the things we see in creation, it will rapidly change the world we live in. (in Jesus for the better)
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