I didn't know whether to put this under interpreted or or not.
May be you can see more than l.

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This morning when l first woke l saw GAZA It had a double line above and below.(one wider than the other) I kept waiting for a word or something else to explain why l saw this but nothing came...?
Then l realized 'it was just what it was' a SIGN.

So this morning as l researched Gaza l was struck with the first 7 verses of Amos who was Prophesying to the whole region and to Gaza. I read what Steadman had to say and wondered if this is what God wanted me to know....

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http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1...83188-2475.html

Ray Stedman
"Amos: God Doesn't Play Favorites .........Now, the nation evidently went on resisting the appeal of the prophet, so he addresses two particular messages to these people, aimed at the two extreme views among the people of Israel. They are almost contradictory views. First he says:

Woe to those who desire the day of the Lord! (5:18)
And to the other group, he says:


"Woe to those who are at ease in Zion..." (6:1)

Now here are two quite distinct views among the people. There were those whom we might call the pious hypocrites who first came under the judgment of God. "Woe to you who desire the day of the Lord!" What does this mean? Well, you see, there were some people who were going about saying, "Oh, isn't this a terrible day. Oh, God is so hard. Things are so terrible." They were wringing their hands, appearing to be mourning, and going through all kinds of rituals and religious ceremonies and saying, "Oh, there is no hope for anything. Oh, if God would only come at last! Oh, would that the day of the Lord would come. Would that we could go home to be in heaven." Did you ever hear that? And the prophet thunders: "Woe to you that desire the day of the Lord."

Amos says, "Do you know what that day will be like? Do you have any idea what you are saying? Why," he says, "it is darkness, not light. It is as if a man fled from a lion, and a bear met him; or he went into the house and leaned a hand against the wall and a snake bit him. You talk about the day of the Lord. Why, you don't know what you are talking about! Woe to you." And God says,


"...I despise your feasts, and I take no delight in your [religious activities] solemn assemblies...and burnt offerings...Take away from me the noise of your songs...the melody of your harps...But let justice roll down like waters, and righteousness like an everflowlng stream." (5:21-24)
Do we ever get away from this? God desires truth in the inward parts, in the center of life---not outward conformity. God sees through that sham and pretense without the slightest difficulty and it doesn't impress him when we go through religious activity. "Thou desirest truth in the inward being." (Ps. 51:6)

Well, then there was another group that said, "We are not concerned about these things. Let's eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die. Let's have as good a time as we can and make the most of life; let's enjoy it to the full while we can." And the prophet says, "Woe to those who are at ease in Zion."

Amos asks, "How can you be so restful when the nation is so restless? How can you content yourselves with riches and wealth and the good things of life when people are lying in distress outside in the streets and judgment is taken away from your courts?" So there comes this powerful message:


Woe to those who lie upon beds of ivory, and stretch themselves upon their couches, and eat lambs from the flock, and calves from the midst of the stall; who sing idle songs to the sound of the harp...(6:4, 5a)
...in the midst of the threatening judgment of God? These are the two extreme groups. As Amos goes on, he shows in a series of visions that were given to him that the nation is rapidly ripening for judgment.

At last there comes the final scene, almost always pictured by the prophets---a scene of beauty, peace, and glory. It reveals what God wants and, therefore, why God is angry at hypocrisy. Listen to these words:


In that day I will raise up the booth of David that is fallen and repair its breaches, and raise up its ruins, and rebuild it as in the days of old. (9:11)
Do you remember where that is quoted in the New Testament? In the first council at Jerusalem, in Acts 15, when they were wondering whether God would save the Gentiles without the law of Moses, James stood up and quoted this verse from Amos. "The prophets," he said, "have declared that Godis going to send his grace out to the Gentiles," and he quoted this verse. (Acts 15:15-18) God's word was that he would raise up the tabernacle or the booth of David which had fallen, and repair its breaches. That is a picture of the coming of Christ, representing the house of David. And in the raising up of the Lord Jesus, the word was to go out to all the peoples. God would bless the world through him,


"...that they may possess the remnant of Edom and and the nations [all the Gentiles] who are called by my name," says the Lord who does this. (9:12)
The comes this beautiful scene:


"Behold, the days are coming," says the Lord, "when the plowman shall overtake the reaper and the treader of grapes him who sows the seed; the mountains shall drip sweet wine, and all the hills shall flow with it. I will restore the fortunes of my people Israel, and they shall rebuild the ruined cities and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and drink their wine, and they shall make gardens and ed their fruit. I will plant them upon their land, and they shall never again be plucked up out of the land which I have given them," says the Lord your God. (9:13-15)
That is a picture, of course, of the millennial days when Israel shall at last be restored to the land, never to be removed again.

Now then, why is God so angry with this people? If cruelty makes him angry, it is because his heart is so set upon kindness toward man. If oppression stirs his wrath, it is because he wants men to live in love and peace. If pain inflicted upon others brings judgment from God, it is because his heart is set upon happiness and the well-being of humanity.

The message of this book is that God is relentless when he begins to deal with man. He will not make peace. He will not compromise. When he begins to deal with a nation, he insists on absolute values. When he begins to deal with an individual, he deals with absolute values. Just the fact that we are Christians does not mean that we escape the condemnation of the judgment of the Word of God in those areas where we are attempting to compromise. Just because we have been Christians for 40 years doesn't change the relentlessness of the Word of God as it searches and probes our hearts and lives. God doesn't change.

The word of this prophet is that we are dealing with a God of righteousness and of unbending, inflexible zeal who will not compromise in any way, and yet, our God is a God of patience and of love. The marvelous undertone of this book, as through all the prophets, is that of the outpouring of the love of God's heart moving toward the well-being and the happiness of humanity, breaking out every now and then into beautiful forms of expression. Undergirding the whole book is the promise at last to bring Israel---and likewise all the people of God---into the day when man shall live in peace and joy, with blessings to fill the hearts of men. What a message of the impartiality of God's grace this is!"
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When l went back to check my email, my favorite news letter contained the following post:
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A Fire On the Wall of Gaza - By Beth Goodtree - Bgoodtree@aol.com

I am not a particularly observant person although I practice my religion to a small extent, keeping the Holy Days and trying to adhere to the teachings as best as my imperfect soul is able. I should have been born in the 'Show Me' state and not in Brooklyn, because I am always seeking tangible proof of things esoteric or religious.

Yet I find myself fascinated with the Bible and read it frequently looking for passages that relate to current events. Certainly the prophecy of the return of the Hebrew people to their homeland is one of them. But now we are in deeply troubled times regarding war over religion and over the Holy Land. So I turned to the Bible to see what it had to say. It seems it has a lot to say about events happening now and in the near future. Recently I came across the following, and it was like a jolt of electricity down my spine:

Amos 1:6 "Thus saith the LORD: For three transgressions of Gaza, yea, for four, I will not reverse it: because they carried away captive a whole captivity, to deliver them up to Edom. 7: So will I send a fire on the wall of Gaza, and it shall devour the palaces thereof; 8 And I will cut off the inhabitant from Ashdod, and him that holdeth the sceptre from Ashkelon; and I will turn My hand against Ekron, and the remnant of the Philistines shall perish, saith the Lord GOD."

If I am reading this right, Gaza will be consumed in fire and the inhabitants -- the Arab Palestinians (as called by the ancient name 'Philistines') -- will be utterly destroyed.

Amos 1:6 evens mentions the number of times Gaza has been taken by usurpers. After having been stolen from them in ancient times, it was given back to the Jews by the Palestine Mandate. But Israel lost it through duplicity and war, and is about to lose it again -- a fourth time -- through even more duplicity.

What is even more interesting is the mention of a wall. As we all know, Israel is building a passive barrier -- a wall to prevent the genocidally-bent Arabs from murdering any more Jews. As to the palaces, it is well known that Yasser Arafat had a number of palatial residences, including his takeover of at least one ancient church for his personal use.

Looking at that phrase "...and the remnant of the Philistines shall perish," puts me in mind of the Amalekites. The Amalekites were always the sworn enemies of the Hebrew people, repeatedly attacking them and joining with anyone who wanted to destroy the Jews. They also were a nomadic people, mainly occupying southern Palestine. The Bible describes them as the epitome of evil and hatred, given to lying, thieving and murder. Already they're sounding more and more like those Arabs occupying Jewish Palestine today.

These Arabs lie about being 'Palestinian,' since there was never a country called 'Palestine,' and the majority of them came from Jordan and Egypt. In fact, I challenge a single one of them to show me a valid birth certificate, passport, marriage license or currency from the country of 'Palestine.'

These Arabs steal because they are trying to steal the land rightfully and legally given to the Jewish people by the Palestine Mandate, which was internationally endorsed and never abrogated. And as to murdering, their own polls show that the overwhelming majority of them approve of murdering Jews. Smells like modern-day Amalekites to me...

Meanwhile, here is what the Bible says regarding Amalek, leader of the Amalekites:

Exodus 17:14 "And the LORD said unto Moses: 'Write this for a memorial in the book, and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua: for I will utterly blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven."

Exodus17:16 "And he said: The hand upon the throne of the LORD: the LORD will have war with Amalek from generation to generation."

This seemed to be a prophetic statement. Later in Samuel we read that although the Hebrews were commanded to utterly destroy their tormentors -- the Amalekites -- they did not.

Samuel 15: 2 "Thus saith the LORD of hosts: I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he set himself against him in the way, when he came up out of Egypt. 3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ---.'

Samuel 15:7 "And Saul smote the Amalekites, from Havilah as thou goest to Shur, that is in front of Egypt. 8 And he took Agag the king of the Amalekites alive..."

Here's where Israel's big trouble comes:

Samuel 15:9 "But Saul and the people spared Agag..."

Samuel 15:10 "Then came the word of the LORD unto Samuel, saying: 11 'It repenteth Me that I have set up Saul to be king; for he is turned back from following Me, and hath not performed My commandments."

Samuel 15:18 "and the LORD sent thee on a journey, and said: Go and utterly destroy the sinners the Amalekites, and fight against them until they be consumed. 19 Wherefore then didst thou not hearken to the voice of the LORD, but didst fly upon the spoil, and didst that which was evil in the sight of the LORD?"

Apparently, in Exodus, God anticipates that King Saul will not follow his commandment to destroy every last Amalekite, for it says in Ex. 17:16 "the LORD will have war with Amalek from generation to generation."

However, in Amos it predicts "...and the remnant of the Philistines shall perish, saith the Lord GOD."

It also predicts a wall around Gaza. And it just so happens that there is now a wall, or separation fence, around Gaza where there once was none.

It's sounding more and more that today's Arabs who erroneously call themselves 'Palestinian' are in for a hot time in the old town tonight, courtesy of God. __________________________________________________________________

I haven't drawn a conclusion to this except according to Amos the Palastinians are not the only ones in for a " hot time in the old town tonight."

what do the lines mean miki ?

I don't know, but it made it look more like a sign...even a flag. Israel's flag has one broad line top and bottom, This had one thick one thin. It was very clear.

I think the first few verses of Amos are key as it was too coincidental to research the first few verses and then find the same exact verses in your in box. How often do we have Amos on the tip of our tongue?

Something just occured to me...

Israel's flag has the single bold line on top and bottom and in the vision maybe the thin line is a breakaway!

The sign was the size of a flag.

Thanks Marcus!

Ya , Amos it is then .

Ezekiel 36 v 5 ........ Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Surely in the fire of my jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the heathen, and against all Idumea, which have appointed my land into their possession with the joy of all [their] heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey.

Shekel says that the Edomites are all Arabs , but I am inclined to think they are just the Palestinians .

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Amo 1:7 But I will send a fire on the wall of Gaza, which shall devour the palaces thereof:

are the lines you see ' the wall of Gaza ' , and the 4 transgressions ? it is a double ( treble with the inbox ) , confirmation of Amos' prophecy . you are very prophetic Miki !!

The wall of Gaza is really the roadmap for peace .................

God will burn it up .

Amo 1:9 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Tyrus, and for four, I will not turn away [the punishment] thereof; because they delivered up the whole captivity to Edom, and remembered not the brotherly covenant: Amo 1:10 But I will send a fire on the wall of Tyrus, which shall devour the palaces thereof.

Tyrus , ( I believe ) , is the Babylonian emanation of America ..............

Tyrus will fall in the sea , well work that out for yourself .

When America dabbles in ungodly activities , she becomes Tyrus .

The brotherly Covenant ...........I think that would be Genesis 49 ........

And l like to look at the whole book and what's being said in context. That's why l like Stedman because he summerizes it.

But in particular;

Woe to those who desire the day of the Lord! (5:18)

And to the other group, he says:

"Woe to those who are at ease in Zion..." (6:1)

It's not just Palastinians.

who are these two groups Miki ?

Amos mentions Moloch and Chiun , who are Saturn .

The Star is the wrongly named Star of David .

I guess that takes us back to the Israeli Flag ............

You are reading way to much into that vision. One poster was right it was showing Isreal withdrawing from there and probably a state being declared.

Maybe he's trying to bait me and he's the bait

Simplebaby says:

"Prophecies are much easier to forge than other things . If someone says , Jesus told me to kill your dog , you would say , no that's not the Jesus I know , but if he says , Yashua Messiah , Adonia , Elohim , Cuthberticus , Engelberticus Humperddinkus Minkus , told me today about the moon invasion of FBI lead anti-creatures in the guise of giant homunculi , for some reason we are more likely to sit up and listen."


Just kidding Marcus. I just read our string on fallen angels and had a good laugh...

A waste of time really...I've gotta go put my Turkey in the oven.

Thanksgiving blessings to all!!

If you give up land for peace isn't it like selling out on your birth right for a bowl of stew the way Esau did? Then Jacob (unregenerate Israel) becomes like Esau....

NOW I GET IT!

Divorce turns into hate. A divided people who feel betrayed.

Oh Israel.............

saw this and thought of your dream Miki :




Dancing with Abbas


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URI DAN, THE JERUSALEM POST Mar. 23, 2005

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By handing over security control of Palestinian cities to Mahmoud Abbas, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has placed him on the horns of a dilemma. Not only has relatively quiet Jericho been transferred, but also Tulkarm, which has served as a jumping-off point for horrendous terrorist attacks.

Everyone remembers the battles waged in Jenin by the IDF in April 2002, but the suicide bomber who massacred 30 Jews on Seder night in Netanya's Park Hotel in March 2002 was given his explosive belt and his briefing in Tulkarm.

In 2003 another terrorist, who had unsuccessfully attempted to use cyanide in that same attack, was captured in Tulkarm. And only last December the Hamas commander who dispatched the suicide bomber to the Park Hotel was also arrested in Tulkarm.

Only a month ago a terrorist set out from a nearby village and murdered five Israelis at the entrance to the Stage nightclub in Tel Aviv.
In fact the IDF had to wage a series of complex operations in Tulkarm to wipe out most of the terrorist infrastructures of Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Aksa Martyrs Brigades.

It's now Abbas's turn to prove that Tulkarm, which is also capable of threatening Highway 6, will not become a base for renewed attacks against Israel.

The average Israeli may well ask himself why Sharon is continuing to hand over control of Palestinian cities when Abbas has still taken no serious steps to dismantle the terrorist organizations in Judea, Samaria and the Gaza Strip.

The reason is that Abbas gave an undertaking in Sharm e-Sheikh last month that he had achieved a cease-fire agreement with the terrorist organizations. In Arabic, he used the words "wakf itlak nar." – loosely translated as "opening fire is forbidden." However, these words were totally absent from the agreement reached by the Palestinian terrorist factions in Cairo last week. Abbas, backed by the head of the Egyptian Intelligence Services, General Omar Suleiman, did in fact announce that Hamas, Islamic Jihad and other terrorist leaders had made a commitment to maintain quiet, but here they used a different Arabic expression, "tahdiah," meaning quiet. Nowhere was the original expression, "wakf itlak nur," used, nor even "hudna," a cease-fire undertaken by Muslims when fighting a non-Muslim enemy.

As Jews we must continue to think in Hebrew when the Palestinians attempt to confuse us with their Arabic vocabulary. At first they threatened us with a Jihad – a holy war. They then promised a hudna, which exploded in a Jerusalem bus bombing in the summer of 2003.

Abbas then appeared on the scene and first promised a hudna, and later in Sharm e-Sheikh a "wakf itlak nur."

And what came of this? "Tahdiah," quiet.

According to its real meaning this expression permits the Palestinian organizations to perpetrate a terrorist attack from time to time, just as in the Yasser Arafat era, from the first years after the Oslo Accord until he started an all-out war on September 29, 2000.

Moreover, according to last week's Cairo decision, this "quiet" is conditional on further Israeli concessions and the meeting of Palestinian demands, first and foremost "the return of the Palestinian refugees to their property and homes."

Only the deaf Israeli media and blind Israeli politicians ignore the deceitful document presented in Cairo as a "cease-fire agreement."

However, Sharon likes to repeat that as far as he's concerned agreements with the Palestinians are worthless. He will judge Abbas and his gang only by their deeds. When Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak told Sharon in Sharm e-Sheikh that Abbas was still weak and must be strengthened, Sharon replied: "It makes no difference if he's weak or strong, he must meet his commitments and combat the terrorist organizations according to the road map."

It is therefore not surprising that Sharon prefers deeds to a glossary of Arabic terms. Even though he has taken no serious steps against the terrorist factions, Abbas maintains he is capable of enforcing security in the Gaza Strip, and Judea and Samaria.

Let him prove this here and now, not just by solemn declarations in Ramallah and Cairo. After all, it is obvious that if Abbas can't control matters, he will soon become a lame duck and a hostage of Hamas and Islamic Jihad.

Just to be on the safe side the Shin Bet and IDF are carefully monitoring what is happening after the withdrawal from the cities.

There's no point in wasting time on sophisticated analyses. Two trains are on their way: one will test if Abbas can halt the terrorism. The other is the cruel separation planned by Sharon from the Jewish settlements in the Gaza Strip.

Are these two trains running on parallel lines, or are they on a collision course?

Based on past experience and Abbas's impotence, there's no chance that the "tahdiah" will hold up. The Palestinians will have to invent another deceitful expression when the recent Cairo agreement turns into a scrap of paper.


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Copyright 1995-2005 The Jerusalem Post - http://www.jpost.com/

I still wonder if they will ever really pull out....

But Jerico was handed over.

There's so much in this article l got today that reminds me of all we've talked about on this forum.
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Why should the nations say: 'Where is their God?' - By Stan Goodenough

Let the priests, who minister to the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar; Let them say, "Spare Your people, O LORD, and do not give Your heritage to reproach, that the nations should rule over them. Why should they say among the peoples, 'Where is their God?'" (Joel 2:17)

Preparations are underway for extensive celebrations in the Middle East, and around the world. With less than two weeks to go to "D-Day" nothing, it is believed, can stop the "Disengagement" now.

Normally when things get hot in this part of the world, around 2000 foreign reporters swell the ranks of the already excessive international press presence in Jerusalem. This happened during Operation Desert Storm, during the IDF's Operation Defensive Shield, and again two years ago when the Americans went into Iraq to finish off Saddam Hussein.

The IDF Spokesman reports that double that number, some 4000 foreign journalists, are coming in to cover the uprooting of 10,000 Jews from their northern Samaria and Gaza Strip homes. The vast majority of these journalists work for agencies that are hostile towards Israel and favor the Arabs.

What a glorious day appears to lie ahead for them. Many will be gearing up to send glowing (and gloating) reports to their newsrooms; reports they believe will vindicate their untiring efforts to get Israel to relinquish land for a Palestinian state.

Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's resolve to remove his countrymen from areas he himself urged them to settle in will prove to these journalists that they were always right, and he was always wrong.

Meanwhile, people who have killed hundreds of Jews in thousands of acts of terrorism, and the masses that wholeheartedly support them, are arranging joint street parties for Hamas, the Islamic Jihad and the Palestinian Authority, who will celebrate together "the liberation of Palestinian lands." Praises will descend to Allah from minarets in Gaza City, Khan Yunis, Hebron, Bethlehem, Jerusalem, Ramallah and Shechem, and from mosques across the Muslim world, thanking Allah for this victory over the Zionist enemy.

And the fatal flaw in every peace deal with the Muslim world: Israel's pullout from Gaza, following its pullout from southern Lebanon and, before that, from the Sinai, will be understood to be just the latest in an inevitable series of retreats predestined to shrink Israel to the point of indefensibility, leaving her ripe for the kill.

Against the backdrop of all we have seen and know to be true, Sharon's insistences that Israel is not withdrawing because of Arab terror, and that the uprooting will not reward this terrorism and encourage more of the same, are empty, meaningless words. They will echo hollowly against the coffins of those Jews who will yet pay the price for this "Disengagement."

Here in Israel, the indigenous left-wing, anti-religious, media is intensifying its long-standing campaign to demonize those citizens who, out of conviction and religious belief, have chosen to live in the areas the press routinely calls "occupied Arab lands," even though they are not.

Joyful, too, will be the response of millions among the nations who have chosen to believe the media's lies, who reject any right of the Jews to live in Judea, Samaria and Gaza, who treat the Bible as a book of fairy tales, and who deny the existence, and spurn the sovereignty, of the Lord.

For all these people, the "Disengagement" is both Israel's admission of defeat and confession of guilt. As far as they are concerned, its implementation is already assured.

This will not be the first time that human beings shake their fists in the face of the God of Israel and declare Him impotent to intervene.

His power and might were challenged by Pharaoh in Egypt, who vowed that he would never let God's people go. He was taunted by Goliath of Gath, who scoffed at the shepherd boy confronting him, as if he could defeat a giant with a sling. More recently, He was dared by the owners of the Titanic, who brashly declared that "God Himself can't sink this ship."

These attitudes constitute a fearless and foolish mockery of our God, Who has not only undertaken to return the scattered Jews to their land after centuries in exile, but Who has also sworn that, having brought them back, He will keep them in this land as a shepherd keeps his sheep. He has tied His name, and His reputation, to Israel's survival against the greatest of odds.

More than about Israel, more than about the survival of a nation against every conceivable attempt of man to destroy them; more than anything else, this Disengagement is about His name – the name of the LORD God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the Savior of Israel.

Thousands of years ago, after He had brought the Israelites out of Egypt "with a mighty hand and outstretched arm" their sinfulness tempted Him to destroy them in the wilderness. He chose not to do so out of concern for His great name, "that it should not be profaned before the Gentiles in whose sight I brought them out." (Ezekiel 20:13-14)

God would not allow the Egyptians or the Canaanites to mock and say: "'because the LORD was not able to bring this people to the land which He swore to give them, therefore He killed them in the wilderness.'" (Numbers 14:16-17)

Centuries later, as they wandered among the nations, the people of Israel profaned His name when, hated and homeless, they caused the gentiles to say: "These are the people of the LORD, and yet they have gone out of His land." (Ezekiel 36:20)

His Name faces being profaned once more, as the godless among the nations prepare to announce that "the LORD was not able to keep them in the land He swore to give them." When they hear the news, more than one billion people will proclaim that "Allah is greater." Even a greater number will be entrenched in their belief that there is no God.

There appears to be little reason for hope. Which is precisely why, though it be foolishness to the world, we must abound in hope. Centuries ago, God told a dispirited Elijah that, as bleak as things seemed, He had reserved for Himself seven thousand in Israel who had not bowed the knee to Baal.

Last week, many more than 7000 Israelis gathered in the town of Kfar Maimon, crying out in repentance before the Lord and calling on Him to stop this "Disengagement" and save Israel from her enemies. On August 2, they will gather once again to petition heaven.

Oh, do not remember former iniquities against us! Let Your tender mercies come speedily to meet us, for we have been brought very low. Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of Your name; And deliver us, and provide atonement for our sins, for Your name's sake! Why should the nations say, "Where is their God?" (Psalm 79:8-10)

It's a miracle from God (and a fulfillment of ancient Biblical prophecy, and a Sign, a wonder) that Israel returned to the Holy Land in 1948.

Did Israel deserve such a Blessing and Miracle? No. They're still in Un-belief to this day.

National Israel is a resurrection (of sorts). Israel has come back from the dead.

Dead for 1900 years. Twice dead, 4 days in the tomb. Dry, dead, bones. Then, 57 years (from 1948 to 2005) back in their homeland, as a nation.

Wow!

This is the 21st century. The Third Millenium. We're too modern for this to happen. Israel is on TV every day!!!
You'd think, we should be beyond Bible times by now!
BUT! We're *still* in Bible times. We shuttle around in outer space, and we're in Israel, all in the same day.
We just can't get rid of the Bible.

The eyes of the world are fixed on Jerusalem. The whole world is trembling, and worrying, "What will happen next in Jerusalem?!"
Zech 12;2 Amplified
Behold, I (the Lord) am about to make Jerusalem a cup or bowl of reeling (trembling, KJV) to all the peoples round about. In that day, I will make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all peoples.

If God can resurrect National Israel from the dead, then, maybe, God's promise of our resurrection is dependable? Yes! Do we deserve such a Blessing? No, but God is intensely Gracious and Generous to us. He declares the Faithful to be Righteous.

*****

After the resurrection of Lazarus, someone asked Lazarus "How do you feel?"
He said, "It's good to be alive!"
***********
Philippians 3;10 Amplified
There is power out-flowing from His Resurrection.
Jesus is back from the dead.


dennis manning

I use to think that when Russia and the Persian nations came against Israel to take the "spoil".... that it might mean they were refering to all the vegtables... Then l thought maybe it was undiscovered oil.. But lately l've been coming to think it's the very throne of God it's self.

Pray for the peace of Jerusalem. They shall prosper that love thee. Psalm 122:6


Mt. of Olives

Why not all three, Miki!

Israel is one of the largest producers of fruit in Europe, isn't it?

And they want oil.

But the devil that works in them wants power ---a throne, (for I don't think Satan eats fruit or gets around on petrol!).

I know this is not on par with the bible, but it is interesting to note that the Bible Code about the four heads of the dragon read:

"Concerning the (Red Sea) tongue of the viper---the one being moved---Behold! He will not plunder! Into hell the darting serpent ---the wicked one--- shall go! The one that plundered will himself be plundered!"
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Good point Shekel! I don't see why he would limit himself from any form of plunder knowing how he must itch to blaspheme everything he can in the Holy Land. (a bit off subject, but please read) I have recently been studying ancient religions and texts and it is startling how the rise and fall of false gods is so apparent - and how they all seem to be obviously intertwined around the same struggle for the minds and hearts of men. It also sickens me in a way to realize how greatly they have (and still) mislead us since before our current written history. I'm sure you've probably studied all of this in great detail considering your high wisdom quotient - but if by any chance you haven't I must say that the ancient gods Enki, Marduk, Moloch, Baal, Tammuz (son of Nimrod- maybe a demi-god nephilim type) are all very similar in action to the way the bible warns us that Satan operates. Moloch had people so wrapped up in believing him that they sacrificed their children to him every year - and when Moloch didn't respond by helping some of their problems they said 'maybe our god is mad at us for sacrificing only peasant children' and that same day they threw 300 more of their children into the fire pit to appease him. The old texts say that he would have them play flutes and bang loud drums all around the sacrifice pits so that the screams would be drowned out. Obviously a friend of the old adversary if you ask me! Whats more, God warns us about gods like Moloch (maybe spelled differently though I can't remember - sorry) saying things like - None of my people shall give their children to the fire of Moloch. If a man among you gives his child to Moloch take him out of town and kill him. At first I was thinking dang isn't God harsh at times. No he's not. He does everything in His power since the beginning of mankind to protect us from our own evil desires and the whims of these false gods (fallen angels). I'm sorry if this wasn't based on the subject of this thread too well - I'll try to watch out for that - I just felt compelled to say that everything is in front of our eyes if only we take time and allow Jesus to reveal it to us. This forum is a great support to my life, and I thank you all for alowing me to participate in these discussions. I learn greatly from everyone on here and it has helped me to be more expressive of my beliefs and ideas.(I'm used to being called crazy by most people I talk to. hehe!) God Bless all, and Glory to God in the Highest!

Zephania 2:1-8

Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired.

Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the day of the Lord's anger come upon you.

Seek ye the Lord, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgement; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the Lord's anger.

For Ga'-za shall be foresaken, and Ash'-kelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at noonday, and Ek'-ron shall be rooted up.

Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast, the nation of the Cher'-e-thites( executioner)! the word of the Lord is against you; O Canaan, the land of the Philistines, I will even destroy thee, that there shall be no inhabitant.

And the sea coast shall be the dwellings and cottages for shepherds, and folds(gederah, enclosure or wall) for flocks.

And the coasts shall be for the remant of Judah; they shall feed thereupon: in the houses of Ash'-ke-lon shall they lie down in the evening: for the Lord their God shall visit them, and turn away their captivity.

I have heard the reproach of Moab, and the revilings of the children of Ammon, whereby they have reproached my people, and magnified themselves against their border.




Aug 17th???

you should read all of Zephaniah...but I thought this portion was of particular interest given the pullout schedule.



God bless
Jeep

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...1400286_pf.html




Sunday Aug 14 2005

Last night, at the border crossing between Israel and Gaza Strip.

They posted a sign, forbidding any Israeli civillian from being in Gaza.
All Israelis within Gaza are now il-legal.

dennis manning

Yes, saw that too Dennis....hope they will be covering more and more of it. Actually, I'm sure they will because this will only get worse.

Jeep....great posting!

Ashkelon = a desolation (Ashkelon situated on the seacoast 12 miles north of Gaza) Shortly before the Babylonian captivity, Zephaniah prophesied that the Jews would return from Babylonia and occupy the ruins of Ashkelon. ~Zeph 2:4,7

Zecheriah also prophesied the desturction of Ashkelon (Zech 9:5)

The judgement on the neighboring nations:

"Ashkelon shall see it, and fear; Gaza also shall see it, and be very sorrowful, and Ekron; for her expectation shall be ashamed; and the king shall perish from Gaza, and Ashkelon shall not be inhabited."~Zech 9:5

Ashdod = driven out at noonday (Ashdod is situated 3 miles from the Mediterranean coast and 20 miles north of Gaza) During the time of Eli and Samuel, the ARK OF THE COVENANT accompanied Israel's army (I Sam 4:3) When the Philistines defeated Esrael, they took the ARK to the temple of Dagon in Ashdod. (I Sam 5:1-7) In New Testament times, ASHDOD WAS RENAMED AZOTUS.

"And a bastard (mixed race?) shall dwell in Ashdod, and I will cut off the pride of the Philistines. And I will take away his blood out of his mouth, and his abominations from between his teeth: but he that remaineth, even he, shall be for our God, and he shall be as a governor in Judah, and Ekron as a Jebusite"~~Zech 9:6-7

Ekron= rooted up (Ekron near Mediterranean Sea and 35 miles west of Jerusalem. ) Ekron was apportioned first to the tribe of Judah (Josh 15:45-46), then given to the tribe of Dan (Josh 19:40-43). After David killed Goliath, the Israelites pursued the Philistines to the very gates of Ekron, their fortified stronghold (I Sam 17:52) The prophets pronounced God's judgment upon Ekron, along with her sister cities (Amos 1:8).



Note on map legend #15. Gaza, Ashdod, Ashkelon, Ekron, Gath (the five cities of the Philistines) From these cities the Philistines often made war on Israel.

"Sing, O daughter of Zion; whout, O Israel; be glad and rejoice with all the heart, O daughter of Jerusalem. The Lord hath taken away thy judgments, he hath cast out thine enemy: the king of Israel, even the Lord, is in the midst of thee: thoushalt not seee evil anymore." ~Zeph 2:15

Jeep, I had to take it and run with that.

Zechariah 8,9, and 10 are great chapters too! Wow, there was a lot there in Zephaniah supposedly filled with vivid pictures of God's judgement.

Run with it kiddo...run with it....the map is a nice geographical reference...thanks!

God Bless
Jeep

A big network newscast. on TV, last night. ABC, or somebody. I don't have cable TV.

The reporter asked an Israeli woman, living in Gaza strip "Will you leave your home willingly?"

She answered him, "No, the soldiers will break down the door, force me out, and carry me out. I've stockpiled food and water. The Israeli govt has cut off my electrical power and water. We're hoping for a miracle from God."

She never pointed to the Scriptures. (OR maybe, that part of the interview fell on the editing-room floor.)

Our Maker speaks, and we ignore Him.

dennis manning

I WATCH THE SHOW. I FEEL THAT SHE IS UNDERSTANDING MORE THAN WHAT WAS SEEN ON T.V.
MY HEART IS ACHES FOR THEM.
KIM

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2...1549302,00.html

Describes in detail how the protestors will be removed from Gaza. Cages. Boats. Hovercraft. Cave in the roof of every home.
Possible attacks from Palestinians during evacuation.

It appears that they will spend a fortune of money to do the evacuation.

dennis manning

Israel is driven from the Promised Land, as per the Mosaic law curses.
"If you dis-obey this OT Covenant, God will send drought, flood, mildew, invaders, defeat, locusts upon you. You will be driven out of your homes by your enemies."

We're still in Bible-times! The OT Covenant is still operating. The Jews are a Sign to the whole world.


*********
Mark 11;12 Amplified Bible

Jesus was hungry (for spiritual Bread, Spiritual fruit, Truth from Heaven, the True Bread from Heaven?)

fig tree = National Israel?

No one shall EVER eat from you again. (Hence-forth, The Truth, Bread, and Fruit will come from the Church, Christian Preachers, Jesus?)
Israel no longer speaks for God. The Church does.
?

v 17
ALL nations. Israel spoke only to Israelites.
Now, the Church speaks to ALL nations.
Jesus is calling us (lowly, un-deserving) gentiles to pray to Him!
Israel sought to destroy Him.

v21
the Fig Tree was doomed by Jesus.

*************
The Jews have rejected the Good Samaritan. The Jews continue to despise the Samaritan, and His Golden Rule. They reject all of the Good News of Christ.
They've seen the excellencies of Christ, and rejected Him.
Christ spoke as no man had ever spoke before, and they seek to kill Him.

Do the Jews deserve the Covenant curses? They agreed to the Covenant blessings and curses at the time of Moses. Part of that Covenant said "When "The Prophet" like me comes, listen to Him".
The Jews have broken the most crucial part of the Covenant.

Is National Israel a reward from God to the Jews? No, they don't deserve anything from God except the Covenant curses which they agreed to, 3500 years ago. Does God love the Jews? God looks to save and bless the Jews for the Fore-fathers' sake (Abe, Issac, Jacob/Israel).
But, the presence of National Israel in the Promised Land is a Sign from God.
A Sign to both the Jews and the Gentiles.

Should we love the Jews? And pray for them? Yes.
Before we got saved, many people prayed for us to make peace with our Maker.

Could the Jews escape the Covenant curses today? Yes. Peace with God is only a moment and a (sinner's) prayer away.

****

Lord Jesus! Please accept our Praise for You. Thank You for saving us from sin.
May Your Will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.



dennis manning

a good post, dennis.

the true"Israel" is not composed of fleshly israel.

and "circumcision" is not that of the flesh, but is of the heart.

this was well established by Jesus, as you show, and throughout the christian greek scriptures. why do some look to what is old and has passed away?

and True "New Jerusalem" is not rising from the earth, but "comes down out of heaven, as a bride prepared for the bridegroom".

earthly things are but the shadow of the reality.

and the reality belongs to the Christ.

As per Peloubet's Bible dictionary:

Gaza (the fortified, the strong)

existed continuously from very early times
Alexander the Great's siege lasted 5 months


Joshua could not take Gaza
josh 10;41, 11;22, 13;3

it was assigned to the tribe of Judah. Judah did obtain possession of it, but did not hold it for long. judges 1;18
judges 3;3, 13;1,


judges 3;1-8 the five lords (cities) of the phillistines (Gaza was one of them) , left for the testing and proving of israel, to see whether israel would listen and obey the Lord's commandments.
israel inter-married with un-believers (the U.N., Bush, Babylon, etc)
____________________________________________________________
the Lord sold israel into the hand of the king of Mesopotamia (Babylon?)
(((Babylon will own, control, oppress, Israel in the Trib???)))
Yow!

How many times must Israel be captive to Babylon?
Judges, Ezekiel, Daniel and Revelations, Alexander the Great, the Roman Caesar, Pharoah, a/c, Phillistines, Hitler, Muslims, Palestinians, U.N., Bush, Syria, Iran, Saddam Hussein, the Popes.

Israel is God's Chosen people. One Jew said, "Let God choose some-one else!".
________________________________________________________________

Mesopotamia (between the rivers)
present name = The Kingdom of Iraq.



Through the times of Samuel, Saul, David,,, it remained a Phillistine city

BUT! it was within the Promised Land!

1 Sanuel 6;17, 14;52, 31;1
2 samuel 21;15

Solomon became "master of Azzah", but later, the Phillistines re-took it.
2 Chron 21;16, 26;6, 28;18


acts 8;26
the baptism of the Ethiopian eunuch
isaiah 53;7,8


acts 8;40
azotus = ashdod


ashdod (a stronghold)
assigned to the tribe of Judah, but Israel never subdued it
the Ark of God was carried to ashdod, placed in the temple of Dagon.
the city was taken by Uzziah of Judah. (a good king)
josh 13;3, 1 samuel 5;1, 16;17, 2 chron 26;6

now called Esdud.



dennis manning

****************

an ancient stronghold of Satan?
on the frontier of Egypt?

acts 8;26
on the road from Jerusalem *DOWN* to Gaza.
This is the desert route. barren land, wilderness, no fruit, no Bread, no pasture



dennis manning

The Orange bracelet: Is it worn on the left or right? Right is straight, Left is Gay? No, that can't be right.

How about the bracelet on the Left, and the Mark of the Beast on the Right? No, they would clash.

Is it guaranteed to last, till Kingdom comes?
We can't have a Kingdom without a King.

When Jesus occupies a Physical throne on the physical earth, THEN, we'll have a Physical Kingdom of God on earth.
Until then, Jesus has a Spiritual Kingdom, as Jesus is now reigning in our hearts.

Are the bracelets manufactured with Christain love? and faith?

Will I be attacked by Muslims? Will I be a bracelet Martyr?

What colors go with orange? I work very hard on my appearance.

I have some orange work shirts. Orange for safety and visibility.




*********


The Lord's prayer: Thy Kingdom come, Thy Will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.
Wow! What a prayer!
I wish I could pray like that!
I pray to God that His Kingdom will come, some day. Soon!

The thief said to Jesus: Lord, remember me when You come into your Kingdom.

And, I say, "Lord, please remember me, too."

dennis manning

Orange here...orange there....orange everywhere!!!! We still must continue to pray and support the Jews, God blesses those who bless the Jews. Besides, who wants to give good land to a bunch of terrorists? Soon they will be marching with their guns towards the 'holy city' of Jerusalem proclaiming it is their capital. God will take his vengeance out on them!

dennis you are f-u-n-n-y.
you make me laugh. you are just like a kid...(and you know that can't be baaad, yeah- yeah- yeah.)

regarding the city of Jerusalem.
Jesus, looking out upon it, wept. he wept over it.
"...if you, even YOU, had discerned the time of your inspection--
how i wanted to gather you as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings!!...
but you would not have it!
LOOK! Your house is ABANDONED to you!"

(did Jesus not mean what he said?)

look not to earthly Jerusalem....it has been abandoned!
For the True Jerusalem is the city having REAL foundations, and she is from above, and She is our Mother.

love,

bz

oranga' glad that i didn't say anything about orange?
home, home, on the o-range... where the deer and the antelope play.
where seldom is heard,
a discouraging word,
and the skies are not cloudy all day. LOL
(zebras get to play on the range too....yehaaa~!!)
LOL

(*tears) I am so grieved . I don't understand the evacuation. I know that God has a plan......... I know that one day He will defend Israel............. the whole world will then know that HE IS GOD!

Amen sis, Amen!

the "Israel of God", (the one that He will defend,)
is NOT FLESHLY ISRAEL, or literal Jerusalem.
Jerusalem has been ABANDONED. THe JEWS do not even ACKNOWLEDGE THE MESSIAH, who is JESUS!
a NEW nation of people to serve God was chosen, from EVERY nation of men!


i am amazed at some of you!

you have read the scriptures for so long now.
for so long!
and yet still, you do not grasp this teaching of the scriptures?

i groan, GROAN in my spirit!


you CAST OUT the fact that the NEW JERUSALEM IS HEAVENLY?
your sensibilites have been dulled!

i am just about finshed here!

for on the one hand you say PRAISE JESUS!
and yet, then on the other, you say, save JERUSALEM--the killer of the prophets!
the murderer of JESUS!

what?

i WEEP! A BITTER LAMENTATION!

Oh so what about the messianic Jews that this pullout affects?

The NT says that the OT is void, and at the vanishing point.

3500 years ago, God gave ALL of the Promised Land to Abraham and his blood-descendants, without any stipulations, an ir-revocable covenant.

So, Abe and the Israelites have owned the Promised Land continuously ever since and into eternity future.
Israel owned the Land during the 400 years in Egypt.

At the time of the Babylonian captivity, Israel owned the Land through-out that 70 years of captivity and beyond.

In AD 70, the Jerusalem and the Stone Temple was destroyed, the Jews were scattered throughout the world, for 1900 years. Do they still own the Land continuously, without interuption in the ownership?
Yes.

Does that mean that their valid religion should be OT? No. The OT became void in the first century AD, 1900 years ago.

How can they still own the Land, if the OT is void? The gift of the Land is ir-revocable. The gift of the Land is not conditional. (The OT way of salvation was conditional). The New Covenant has fulfilled the OT Scriptures.
The Jews knew that they were to identify their Messiah, and listen to Him, and they refused to do that. They're suffering in un-belief now.

The OT won't save them; the OT is void now.
The NT won't save them, until they accept the Lord Jesus Christ as their Savior.

The Jews are *Still* suffering under the OT Covenant curses.

The Jews agreed to the OT Covenant at the time of Moses. The Jews said, "We and our descendants will accept the OT Covenant."
The Jews are Still in un-belief and dis-obedience to the Covenant. And said Covenant is void.

Jesus (a Jew) told the Jews, "I am the Messiah. I'm the only Savior. Jesus is the only Name under Heaven by which you MUST be saved".

Christ is the Fulfillment of the OT Covenant.

Ownership of the Land was (and is) not subject to the OT Covenant.

*************

So, do the Jews own Gaza, Jericho, the West Bank, Syria, parts of Iraq, ALL of the Promised land? Yes. But, they don't believe it.
And, they don't control and occupy most of the Promised Land.

Why don't the Jews enjoy and occupy ALL of the Land? Their un-belief and dis-obedience. And the gentiles (Babylon system, U.N., E.U., Russia, China, Muslims, the USA, etc) are in un-belief. Very few believe God's Word.
The Gentiles are pressuring Israel to give away the Land that they will own forever.

Israel gives away the Land, and they STILL own it!!!!
They can't get rid of it!
God's Word over-rules our un-belief.
Like a boomer-rang, the Land comes back!
Even beyond the end of the Mill reign, in the new Heavens and the new earth, in Eternity future, the Jews will own the Promised Land forever.

Reminds me of the Jubilee. The family Land always returns to the original family, every 50 years.
If the Palestinians believed God's Word, they would know that they can't EVER own the Land, from Egypt to the River, from the River Jordan to the Mediteranean Sea.

WHAT A MESS of un-belief!!!!!!
Layers upon layers of un-belief.
The gentiles, churches, moslems, the UN, the EU, Babylon, the Jews, are in un-belief.

Who does believe? The In-visible Church. The Under-ground Church. The meek, the humble, the repentant, the good samaritan, those who are sorry for their sins, those who love the Truth, those who are zealous to do good works, those who have thirsted for righteousness, the baptized, those who love the Lord,

Those who love their neighbor, the poor, their enemies.

dennis manning

NOW THIS.....is an oxymoron...the UNITED NATIONS paying for propaganda to DIVIDE A NATION.

UN Pays For Anti-Israel Bumper Stickers, Mugs, Shirts, etc.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

United Nations Bankrolled Latest Anti-israel Propaganda

BY JACOB GERSHMAN - Staff Reporter of the Sun
August 17, 2005

The United Nations bankrolled the production of thousands of banners, bumper stickers, mugs, and T-shirts bearing the slogan "Today Gaza and Tomorrow the West Bank and Jerusalem," which have been widely distributed to Palestinian Arabs in the Gaza Strip, according to a U.N. official.

The U.N. support of the Palestinian Authority's propaganda operation in the midst of the Israeli evacuation of Jewish settlers from the Gaza Strip has provoked outrage from Israeli and Jewish leaders, who are blaming Turtle Bay for propagating an inflammatory message that they say encourages Palestinian Arab violence.

"The intifada worked. That's contextually what this message is saying," the director of U.N. affairs for the Washington-based Jewish organization B'nai Brith, Amy Goldstein, said.

The Arabic slogan, which refers to disputed territories of the West Bank and East Jerusalem, has become ubiquitous in Gaza, where Israeli soldiers this week are evacuating 21 settlements. It's served as the central message of a Palestinian Arab effort to spin the withdrawal as a victory.

A special representative of the United Nations Development Program in the Gaza Strip, Timothy Rothermel, told Fox News that his office provided financial support for the production of materials that make up the Palestinian Authority's propaganda campaign, timed to coincide with the Gaza pullout. The Palestinian Authority's withdrawal committee developed and produced the posters and other items using U.N. money, Mr. Rothermel said.

In addition to the slogan "Today Gaza and Tomorrow the West Bank and Jerusalem," many of the materials displayed the logo of the United Nations Development Program, which operates in 166 countries and spends about half a billion dollars a year.

Asked by a Fox News correspondent about one of the banners bearing the words implying an impending Palestinian Arab takeover of the disputed areas, Mr. Rothermel, said, "That particular poster was prepared by the disengagement office with financial support from the United Nations Development Program."

UNDP officials at the United Nations headquarters in New York City, however, denied that money from the program went directly to the propaganda campaign.

A UNDP spokesman, William Orme, said his office gave money to the Palestinian Withdrawal Committee to "help the Palestinian Authority communicate to the populace about the withdrawal and its economic and social impact."

The money was funneled to the committee through a subagency called Program of Assistance to the Palestinian People. U.N. officials were not told about the propaganda campaign or about the slogan, he said.

The director of international affairs for the American Jewish Congress and a Sun op-ed columnist, David Twersky, criticized the UNDP for failing to better track their funds.

"How come they don't know what's happening to their money?" he said. "Where's the audit? Where's the transparency? How could responsible U.N. officials living off of tax dollars have the chutzpah to say I don't know what they're spending their money on?"

New York-based U.N. officials learned of the slogan, Mr. Twesky said, when they received a letter of complaint on Monday from the American Jewish Congress. The letter, signed by the chairman of the American Jewish Congress, Jack Rose, said the United Nations "has no business paying the costs of this propaganda." The letter was addressed to the development program's new administrator, Kemal Dervis.

Mr. Orme, who said his office was investigating the details of the letter, refused to say whether the United Nations stands behind the slogan printed on the propaganda materials.

He said: "We are emphatically neutral ...We do not lend ourselves to political messaging in favor of any particular faction or ideology."

Mr. Rothermel, in the Fox News interview, argued that the slogan, which predicts an Israeli disengagement from the West Bank and, presumably, East Jerusalem, is a message that is "consistent with the relevant U.N. resolutions and Security Council resolutions about the status of Palestine."

A former Israeli ambassador to the United Nations, Dore Gold, said the funding of the propaganda campaign is "simply outrageous."

"The West Bank is disputed territory under U.N. Security Council Resolution 242. The U.N. has no business getting involved in sloganeering to call on the Palestinians to also take tomorrow the West Bank and East Jerusalem," Mr. Gold told Fox News.

The Palestinian Authority's top leaders have echoed the slogan in recent public comments. "The process of national struggle will continue until we reach Jerusalem and celebrate there and in the West Bank," its prime minister, Ahmed Qurei, said. according to a report in the Jerusalem Post.

www.nysun.com/article/18710

****************************************************************

BZ....bad day? Aren't we to pray for the Jewish nation for God to open their eyes to the true messiah? Doesn't it say in the Bible that God blesses those that bless the Jews and curse those that curse the Jews? There are Messianic Jews there, they are unfortunately considered a cult.

Hey, I never professed to know so much about the Bible.... I feel for these people.....why not give them the whole land eh? A bunch of Hamas terrorists are moving into the land!!!!!!!!!!!! They are going to keep pushing them out too!!!!!!!!!!!! They will make their way to Jerusalem and proclaim it to be their capital!!!!!!!!!!! My heart says IT IS WRONG! No way!! Everyone will be against the Jews, they are the most hated people. It is wrong to hate, you must love your neighbor and treat them as you want to be treated......and pray for them.

I think we all just need to gather for a group hug.



BZ, you better not leave us


Jeep

*********************

The Messianic Jews that this pullout affects???
They would be Christians.
Paul was a Jew, He converted to Christianity.
In Christianity, there is neither Jew nor Gentile, barbarian nor Greek, male nor female.

Should the Jews assert their ownership of Jericho, Gaza, the West Bank, NOW?

First, let the Jews assert that Jesus is Lord!!!!!!!

Let's get the horse in FRONT of the cart. Let's get our priorities straight.

The Jews wouldn't care about building the THIRD Temple if they accepted the NT.

The NT Temple is our human bodies, NOT a Stone (OT) Temple.

The Jews have dis-believed the OT and the NT (they didn't accept Jesus). SO, they're SUPPOSED to be suffering in exile, drought, mildew, blight, defeat, flood, sickness, and Phillistines. Their fore-fathers agreed to the Covenant Curses.

The Jews' presence in the Holy Land is an End-time Sign. The Sign is NOT because the Jews have done anything faith-ful;;; The Sign is IN SPITE of their continued un-belief.



Today, the Jews could escape the curses by believing the OT and the NT. They could fall in Love with the Good Samaritan, the Truth, the Golden Rule, the NT, at any time that they want to. And they (like many gentiles) have refused to do so. The Jews are no better (or worse) than the gentiles. Many are called, Few are chosen.

dennis manning

God owns the whole earth. It is his creation.
all of it belongs to Him, to give it to whom He chooses.
blessed are the meek
for they shall inherit
the EARTH.

August 19, 2005 Washington: 7:34:26 am Jerusalem: 2:34:26 pm
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America’s Role In Dividing Israel
Has Brought Judgment -

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Bill Wilson, KIN Senior Analyst

WASH—Aug 16—KIN— The role of America in the eviction of Jews from the covenant land has been pivotal in bringing political disruption, natural disasters, economic disaster and violence against the United States.


Every President since Jimmy Carter has tried to broker peace by putting Israel on a path to give up its land. President George W. Bush is the first President to ever advocate a Palestinian state and apply constant and forceful pressure for Israel to give up its land.


And since this pressure has become so intense during the Bush Administration, Islam has prosecuted the war on terror ferociously against America; fuel prices have more than doubled; the direct nuclear threat against the U.S. has increased; temperatures, droughts, earthquakes and hurricanes have increased; and America lives in constant vigilance against attacks on its own soil.


A thorough understanding of Biblical prophecies, the Word of God, would indicate that modern Israel is the fulfillment of prophecy and the standard by which future prophecies will be fulfilled. In Ezekiel 37:5, the Lord said unto the dry bones of Israel, “Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you and you shall live.” And on May 15, 1948, Israel came alive once again as a nation. And Jesus, speaking of the end times in Matthew 24, said to learn the parable of the fig tree, that when its branches sprout leaves that “this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.” The fig tree is Israel and many of the events of Jesus’ Matthew 24 prophecies are being fulfilled in this very generation.


The world has focused itself on Israel, this tiny little nation whose dry bones became flesh by the vote of the United Nations. All Arab states at that time voted against the establishment of Israel and vowed to destroy it. The world has come against the nation it created by intensely pressuring Israel to give up the heart of the covenant land—Judea and Samaria, commonly known today as the West Bank.


Under intense pressure from the United States for Israel to comply with U.N. Resolution 242, requiring Israel to give up the land it acquired as a result of war in 1967 and 1873, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has unilaterally given up Gaza as a peace offering to the Palestinians with Smaraia and Judea not far behind.


The Palestinians have answered with the slogan “Gaza today, Jerusalem tomorrow.” Palestinian leaders at the Palestinian Authority, Hamas, and at Islamic Jihad now claim victory and demand Jerusalem.


The United States may be facing God’s judgment for its role in forcing Israel to give up land for peace. Not since the war of 1812 was America attacked on her own soil. And now America is under attack by the same enemy of Israel—radical Islam. America is mentioned in the same breath with Israel at the United Nations, in Iran and Syria, and on the lips of every terrorist who stands on the violent passages of the Koran. America is joined with Israel, grafted in by the covenant of those who dedicated America in its infancy to God and to the advancement of the gospel of Jesus Christ.


The pattern is clear--so long as America continues to advocate the division of Israel, judgment will be commensurate with the increasing pressure. Pray for the peace of Jerusalem! Pray that America is not “cut in pieces” for coming against Jerusalem as the prophecy of Zechariah promises.


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dennis manning

The world has focused itself on Israel, this tiny little nation whose dry bones became flesh by the vote of the United Nations.


there is the clue...


it is not be means of the United Nations
that the true israel will come to life.

nope.


nope.


but by means of God's spirit.

(and you will not find the spirit of GOD in the United Nations.)


UN means "NOT".


God calls the things that are not, as if they "are"...so certain is his word.

and also, he sees as "not", the things that now are.

BZ, I believe the United Nations is a very corrupt organization...I've read so much about them it is pretty disturbing. On that same not here is something equally as disturbing...rewarding terrorist behavior by giving them land.

What in the world is happening? How none of this makes any sense!! It is all beyond me!
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Killing Jews has proven to be successful.
Posted: Sunday, August 21, 2005
- written by jerry golden

To see Jewish families being carried out of their homes kicking and screaming to the IDF soldiers asking them how can you do such a thing, aren’t you a Jew? Never in the history of the nation of Israel has there been such tears of anguish and torment in the hearts of Jews who believed in their Government, a belief that will not be easily restored if ever.

What Sharon has done to the Jewish Nation of Israel is beyond the understanding of any sane person living in this land. He has destroyed the trust we had in our armed forces and brought us to a place of deep suspicion towards our leaders.

While Jews are being forced out of their homes to reward Hamas and the Islamic Jihad for killing our children in buses and café’s bulldozers are tearing down the homes and dreams of Jews who came from many countries knowing this is where God said they should live.

At the same time Abbas is making speeches in Gaza claiming victory, giving praises to the suicide bombers saying they ran the Jews out of Gaza. Then going on to say that all of Palestine will be taken. What the west doesn’t understand is he is not talking about the so-called West-Bank (Judea and Samaria) he is talking about the land between the river Jordan and the Mediterranean Sea.

Hamas has already begun training more troops even Islamic women with the permission of their husbands, fathers and brothers.



Many of these women are mothers, yet their husbands still encourage them to not only be terrorist but even suicide bombers. Daily now we see on Israeli TV pictures of the streets full of Hamas terrorists marching with their weapons, saying next the West Bank and then Jerusalem. No one is fooled we all know that the Disengagement was a gigantic mistake and it will cost many Jewish lives, for it has only encouraged the terrorists knowing that they have won both Southern Lebanon and now Gaza, both times the IDF has run under fire. They have a system that works it is called killing innocent Jews wherever they can find us.

To make matters even worse we are now faced with the very real possibility of a major terrorist state and operation center in the middle of Israel that will not only effect Israel but the rest of the world as well. They are being financed by the US, EU and Russia all with no regards to the security of Israel, in fact, it looks like the plan is the total destruction of Israel, but if my Bible is correct and I think it is, God has another plan, even if it upsets Sharon and Bush.

In the next couple of days they will begin evacuating two Jewish villages in Samaria, the upper Galilee, right in the heart land of what God gave the Jewish people, don’t be surprised if they (the IDF) don’t run into a little stiffer resistance there.

The only comfort one can get from all of this, is Rom. 8:28, we know that God’s Will is going to take place regardless of what Sharon and Bush do, and it makes little to no difference what we think. Or for that matter what we like or don’t like. You see God works on a level of true or false, it is true to His Word or it isn’t. And the truth of God’s Word cannot be effected by events or by men. What we believe does not make something the truth. Or what we don’t believe has no effect on the truth. The truth of God is simply the truth and will come to pass, like they say, come hell or high water.

For those of us who know God on a personal basis through the Jewish Messiah Yeshua we will have a certain comfort that others will not understand; that should shine through as a witness when times get really difficult.

Pray for the peace of Jerusalem, for our son Joel and all the IDF soldiers. Pray for those who have come to fight the Islamic enemy. Pray for this Ministry and your part in it.

Shalom, jerry golden

UMMMMMmm........What did Sharon and the rest of the Israeli government think was going to happen? I don't get it, I really don't! I don't understand WHY Israel would give up their land like that for the Palestinian Hamas groups to settle in? Don't you think they knew this would happen!!!!!!!!!!

What is the real reasoning here!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Someone please explain, this makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT/WHO is behind this....is it all about MONEY - AGAIN? That's what it always seems to come down too!! WHY DID THIS HAPPEN AND WHAT IS THE REAL REASON?

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Israel: Massive arms smuggling into Gaza in past 3 days

SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM
Wednesday, September 14, 2005
TEL AVIV — Israeli military sources said hundreds of weapons, including anti-aircraft missiles, anti-tank rockets and bomb components, have been smuggled over the last three days from the Sinai Peninsula to the Gaza Strip.

The sources said Palestinian insurgents brought the equipment from Egypt in wake of the Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip.

So far, more than 10,000 Palestinians have crossed the Gaza border and made their way to towns in eastern and northern Sinai. The sources said they included hundreds of operatives from Fatah, Hamas and Islamic Jihad, some of whom directed the flow of Palestinians into Sinai.

Marta, you said:
"BZ, I believe the United Nations is a very corrupt organization...I've read so much about them it is pretty disturbing. On that same not here is something equally as disturbing...rewarding terrorist behavior by giving them land.

What in the world is happening? How none of this makes any sense!! It is all beyond me!"

-----------

Confusion comes when we look according to the flesh, to ancient Jerusalem.

But NEW JERUSALEM is not of this earth...it comes down out of heaven.
and She is our CITY and SHE IS OUR MOTHER.

Jesus opens so no one can shut,
and shuts so no one can open.

He said of Jerusalem: LOOK! your house is abandoned to YOU!

He wanted to gather them together
as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings.
but they would not have it.

they REJECTED him. and they remain in that rejection to this very day.
They still have not come to Jesus, who is the WAY.

It breaks my heart to see the hatred that is displayed here...and to be so nieve to think that this would bring peace.
The only peace will be the peace that God provides...anything else is false peace.

Well here in the Gaza strip they call on Eygpt to provide help with keeping peace.
WHAT A JOKE. Even Isreals own miltary are asked to take a step back and let others supposedly keep the Peace...what a joke. Sounds to me like Sharon and Egypt are making some undercover agreement.

I wish I knew what verse it says in the Bible that says don't RELY Or PUT YOUR TRUST IN EYGPT!! Oh now I see it is in Ish.30:2 and 30:3...thanks Sailstoawe.

God BLess you all

Survey: Disengagement was 'useless'


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JPost.com Staff, THE JERUSALEM POST Feb. 13, 2006

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"The majority of the Israeli public believes that the disengagement from the Gaza Strip was of no practical value, according to a survey conducted by the Geocartographic Institute on behalf of Army Radio.

Most of those who participated in the survey held that the evacuation of settlements in Gush Katif was damaging, or at the very least, was ineffective in the fight against Palestinian terror.

Some 70% of those surveyed replied that the implementation of the disengagement plan did not contribute anything towards peace, while only 20% thought the plan was a stimulus for improved relations with the Arab world.

However, a significant majority believed that the withdrawal from Gaza aided relations with Europe.

Strong feelings surfaced about the treatment of evacuees. 68% of survey participants thought that the government neglected the settlers who were evacuated from Gush Katif.

The head of the Disengagement Authority (Sela), Yonatan Basi, reacted to the survey, saying that "the measures that the Israeli government took before and especially after the disengagement, when we had cooperation from the settlers, were unprecedented. I believe that Sela is acting appropriately."

Neveh Dekalim evacuee Hana Fikar, a resident of a caravilla in Nitzan, described the hardships she has endured since the disengagement in August of last year. "200 families from Neveh Dekalim live here, but it is not Neveh Dekalim," she said. "It is impossible to say that we have rebuilt a community. You have destroyed a community, you have destroyed values and moral principles. It's all gone."

Some 50% of those surveyed categorically denounced any future unilateral withdrawal from Judea and Samaria. 18% supported a future disengagement on condition that it created conditions conducive to a peace agreement with the Palestinian Authority. 23% said that a unilateral withdrawal was necessary, since the Palestinians were not partners for peace".
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I sure as heck hope they don't withdraw from Judea and Samaria!!!

All of that for nothing and two leaders are dead. Will a third complete the trio?

I still just can't believe they did it.

I know, it makes me sick too. The palestinians ruin the cities when they take them over. It happened to Jericho. I saw it firsthand. Bethlehem is the same.

Maybe l'm just imagining stuff but it's all about a divided kingdom isn't it?



The axe layed to the root...

There's a virus...an infection.

Seems like there is always two to together. One over laying the other. And one a leech. A wind up toy. A monkey banging his clanging cymbals. Without Love that's what we are.

Miki,

You have done much work and posting here. I just picked up on the post which seems to have been started a while ago. What are you seeing here regarding Gaza and what is your latest insight ?