This is one of the most interesting items I've read in the past six months. It talks about the supra-national agenda of the EU (and it's origins), and the Roman Catholic Church as the unspoken 'unifying factor' operating behind the scenes. It talks about Mary as Our Lady of the Nations, that is, Mary as the Supra-Religious commonality that could unite the world's religions. I've been talking about Mary unifying Islam, Catholicism, and the Eastern Orthodox religions, but author Dr. Robert R. Congdon fills in some of the holes I knew I was missing. This is a great read, but it's 51 pages long, so give yourself plenty of time.

http://www.pre-trib.org/article-view.php?id=253

Hi,

and we are all still here...have we yet been given the great grace to
witness the resurrection of the dead? Not yet...still counting...

2 Thessalonians

"Let no man deceive you by any means; for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition"

come out of her...

Signet

So... ALL pre-tribbers have NOTHING to say worth merit???

Even in 51 pages?

WOW.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

Hi,

This is not personal....it is not the cornerstone of salvation...

The scripture says clearly what it says...not everyone will be in
agreement about this...

I don't believe in the pre tribulation rapture, however, I hope that is the case, but for me it is a false hope...I don't know if the church of the day has been given clear understanding fresh rhema...to
claim this...I have been in churches that teach all three, and some
churches that don't teach on it at all...so I am willing to accept
that unless the Lord reveal this to me...that time, the scripture of
2Thessalonians is extremely clear.

Adhering to any
specific doctrine...may be heartbreaking for many, that if the times are
being revealed and taught by the Spirit don't line up with the doctrine
that has been widely taught then many will have sudden panic
and not realize what is happening...

Not being able to discern what time it is will add to the confusion
of the times...we are already seeing that...and we have to drop
our favorite doctrines, in light on the burgeoning of evidence that
we should not look for the way out...but how to live through the tribulation, and do God's will.

"The son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity".

There is no condemnation...

First the church, then the world...

Signet

Well, if there is no pre-trib rapture, I believe it will be pretty easy to discern the times.

Jesus returns 7 years after the false treaty in Israel is put in place and after the anti-christ shows himself. We need only go to Daniel to find out about these things (as I am sure you are familiar).

I would imagine that at the MOST believers could narrow down Jesus' return within a few months. I think we'll probably even know His return in terms of narrowing it down to days (if we are still around).

I get upset when people insenuate that pre-tribbers will be ill-prepared to deal with the trials and tribulations that go along with those 7 years. We serve the same Jesus. He gives strength to ALL. I also think that you underestimate people's ability to adapt... especially if they are true believers. We have hope that others do not and a Savior that others do not. If the pre-trib theory is wrong, I would imagine folks regrouping very quickly and digging their heals in in order to brace for what is to come (all the while looking up and praying for supernatural strength).

Just as an aside, a lot of what the afore mentioned article covers has nothing to do with the pre-trib (it is just in the web address). Refusing to even LOOK at the article seems a lot like a toddler, lips pursed and arms crossed, saying no to a new food (because he already "knows" he won't like it). Who knows, you MAY like what you read. Who says we have to agree on everything.

PS My favorite doctorine is this:

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except through Him.

AMEN!!!!! Did I say AMEN???!!!!

By the way, Scott (daysofnoah), WOW!

How do you read all that without glossy eyes????

You are SUCH a theologian and researcher. Praise the LORD!!! Work your gift!

I read MOST of it and it was incredible.

Praise the Lord that I am one of His.

Hi,

I am not sure if you are addressing me or not...I didn't dismiss the article.
I am going to read it in hopes of learning something from it...however,
if someone determines not to look at it...it is still not personal.

I agree with you 100% the Jesus is the way, the truth, and life. However,
this is not doctrine it is the Word and needs no interpretation... and right
you say the Spirit of God will lead us into all truth...

My life verse is Luke 10:27

"...Thou shall love the Lord thy God with all they heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself".

I am also held accountable to pray for all people, whether they are
Christians or not...and those held in bondage and darkness...that God
would intervene even in the last days...The Rapture...does not fit in with
what the Lord has put in my heart...in fact, it is far from how the Lord has
lead me over the years...I always believed that I would be here through it.

When we feel offended we have to take it to the Lord, yes? Noone is insinuating
anything. If the church is not here, then they have been taken out before the
falling away...and if that is the case, well, we are all still here...either these
are the days and if so we are already in the count down...which by now, the pre trib church would be gone...and we wouldn't have to worry...we are here, though,
and the tribulation is happening whether we agree on rapture theology or not. Like
you say people will have to regroup...take heart, and be strengthened by
the Lord, his Word, and each other...Yes?

This is the shaking of the foundation...about preparing the bride...purification,
holiness, and the pattern is through suffering to the degree that all will
let go of their stuff...the true church is the one being purified, not the apostate
church...this purified church will be hidden in the wilderness bringing forth
and travailing for the manchild. We are soon to see some really amazing things
but at the same time as the horrific things happen, God is pouring out His
Spirit upon us and many miracles will take place, and signs and wonders
abound as is now happening on a daily basis...and this is to stengthen us to
strenghthen each other...I long for the day to sit a the feet of Jesus...

Shalom,
Signet

YEP! AMEN to that for sure!!

J you said that with grace and tact...

You know... I should've just ignored the pre-trib comment in this thread. We all know that the rapture conversation causes division.

After reading the article, it has NOTHING to do with the rapture. Absolutely nothing.

I apologize Scott for getting off course.

Jack... I believe in Jesus and I believe that the Bible is the true inspired God breathed Word of God.

I believe in Noah, the ark and the flood.
I believe Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt.
I believe that Elijah was a prophet.
I believe in the virgin birth.
I believe that Jesus suffered and died on a rugged cross.
I believe He rose again.
I believe He is coming back again.

Can we agree to agree on this???

Let's not talk about things that divide us but instead things that unite us.

you crack me up

Here's another great article along the same lines...it's not quite as long either.

http://www.harpazo.net/Queen.html


Also, check out this page:

http://www.harpazo.net/EternalProductions/ApparitionsofMary/


Here's an entire ebook on the subject:

http://www.harpazo.net/EternalProductions/...sofMary/MFH.pdf


Finally, Roger Oakland has some audios up right now (hurry though, they won't be up for very long):

http://www.understandthetimes.org/

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**Please take the Pre-Trib comments elsewhere.