Just throwing out a hypothetical question... if you don't want to participate, that's okay... this is the debate section for controversial subjects, so this is why I'm posting it here

Question:

Being that it is the end times and we are all looking for the coming of our Lord... what IF there was NO Rapture (or even if there was a 'catching up' only it wasn't what you expected) and your entire belief system was thrown out the window and there came upon you great tribulation and calamity, such as earthquakes, fires, floods, etc. and you had to lose family members, etc.

How would you handle it?

Remember, I'm not attacking anyone who believes in the Rapture, I'm just asking what would you do IF you were one of those LEFT BEHIND or EVERYONE was left behind? I'm not the first person to ask this, there's a whole Left Behind Series :-)
So no throwing stones!

[quote=lifeinhim61,Apr 20 2006, 07:45 AM]
Just throwing out a hypothetical question... if you don't want to participate, that's okay... this is the debate section for controversial subjects, so this is why I'm posting it here

Question:

Being that it is the end times and we are all looking for the coming of our Lord... what IF there was NO Rapture (or even if there was a 'catching up' only it wasn't what you expected) and your entire belief system was thrown out the window and there came upon you great tribulation and calamity, such as earthquakes, fires, floods, etc. and you had to lose family members, etc.

How would you handle it?

Remember, I'm not attacking anyone who believes in the Rapture, I'm just asking what would you do IF you were one of those LEFT BEHIND or EVERYONE was left behind? I'm not the first person to ask this, there's a whole Left Behind Series :-)
So no throwing stones!

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One has to go on and so I would be very much awaiting the Lord's next move and I would have to default to all those scriptures which speak of the saint's of God being overcome and all that. It would have to be a new mindset of hoping for a deliverance (carried to a place of protection on the earth) or else possible being martyred for the faith of the Lord. It all ends at the same place for every believer, it is just the nature of the trip in question...easy way out, or "coffee break is over heads down" mentality...

Maz

Maz, that's such a great word! It will be like putting the pedal to the metal so to speak! I love the word "overcomer" ... it speaks volumes of what we are going to have to face and we need to believe that the Lord will be on our side! Amen!

i'm honestly at a point to where i feel that if the rapture happens then "cool" and if not then "cool."
i told some one that i didnt want the rapture to happen soon because i am learning so much that i dont want study time to be over.

i personally don't think there are enough things in place for the rapture to happen anytime soon but i don't have the slightest idea of time or hour.

i just do my thing.

besides even if the rapture didnt happen then i can say i lived a good life.

Amen c-los.

I'm with you on the studying thing. There is so much to learn that I don't want to stop! That and other things, but there is only so much time in one day.

You know I just can't resist a good controversy

Your question gets at one of the concerns I have posted before. What happens if what you fervently believe turns out to be a deception. The reality is that some of us are being deceived. So you have a good question in that if we find out that we have been deceived, are we able to step back and admit the deception, or will we, because of our pride, hang on to it no matter what. The rapture is one of those topics that would fit. Some one is right and some one is being deceived. If you find out that you are the one that believed a deception will it shatter your faith? Good question. Let me turn it up a notch, and I will use myself as an example, but it will apply to all.

Lets say I have been deceived and satan is actually using the Catholic Church, and it in fact is the whore of Babylon and ushers in the false Prophet. If this becomes reality, will I be too full of pride to see the deception.

Likewise, lets say the Catholic Church is in fact the church established by Christ, passed down through the succession of the Popes, and does in fact provide the means to discover the fullness of Jesus Christ and you have been deceived. Will your pride allow you to see the deception you are in, will you come out of the deception? Or will you be too full of pride to see the deception.

Good Question! Because someone is being deceived.

God Bless,
Kansas Dad

ps. Please do not turn this into a debate on Cathlic vs Protestant, That is not what the thread is about. It is about Pride, deception, and Faith.

Ok, well what if we just looked at the bible like a child... children are not scholars, they don't dig and dig until they confuse themselves.

Look to the Lord with a child's heart. He will guide you where you need to go. Rapture or no rapture... never really mattered to me. I have a job to do while I'm here. If I happen to be here when the great tribulation goes on, well then, I'll just listen to what the Lord wants me to do.

Don't trip yourselves up thinking too much!!! Listen to your hearts... that's where our Lord is!

Love you all more than I could possibly express with written words!!!!
Lisa

I am prepared to survive through any number of tribulations. Economic hardship? I'm prepared. Cut off the food supply? I'm prepared. Flee to the wilderness? I'm prepared. Whatever comes, I'm confident that God has prepared me well and he will guide me.

No matter what happens, I will not be afraid but will cling to the Lord in faith.

ya know what would be interesting to do.
to somehow discuss possible things that we can say with a good presentation of what some end times "keys" are.
we know that Israel was declared a nation in 48 and gained Jerusalem in 67.
these are things we all can maybe agree on and watch together.

the rest is up in the air.

well i may of gone off topic...

What happens is the devil lures you away in doubt. I really think that GOD wants us to be more concerned with bringing in the lost than which doctrinal teaching is correct. I know that it is important for each of us to know these things. There is a fine line that we are to walk. Search the scriptures, ALL of them. I posted many scritures and people just waltzed past without so much as a look at GOD'S WORD concerning the subject matter. So, what happens when we look outside the BIBLE for the answer is that the WORD becomes the doctrine of man. It becomes watered down and is of no use any longer.

This is bringing in the STONG DELUSIONS that GOD'S WORD says it will bring.

The family of GOD needs to get back on track with GOD first.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

GOD'S WORD doesn't say pick the scriptures that fit your meaning,. He wants us to know HIS MEANING. Rightly dividing the word of truth. That means reading and studying the WHOLE WORD on the subject. Reading the verses in context and understanding the true meaning of GOD'S WORD.

[quote=Roxygal,Apr 20 2006, 10:20 AM]
Ok, well what if we just looked at the bible like a child... children are not scholars, they don't dig and dig until they confuse themselves.

Look to the Lord with a child's heart. He will guide you where you need to go. Rapture or no rapture... never really mattered to me. I have a job to do while I'm here. If I happen to be here when the great tribulation goes on, well then, I'll just listen to what the Lord wants me to do.

Don't trip yourselves up thinking too much!!! Listen to your hearts... that's where our Lord is!

Love you all more than I could possibly express with written words!!!!
Lisa
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I very much agree with this statement Roxygal....

And I will add my thoughts as well....Look at how quickly children forgive on another. They can fight and tear at each other's hair, cry, get into trouble for doing it, maybe even get their britches dusted too, but 10 minutes later they are made to say, "I'm sorry" and go back to playing again with sniffling noses, and never bring up the fight ever again. It has left their heart so quickly....

Koppted has it correct as well about PRIDE. It is the down fall and it makes men/women refuse to move on their stance, even when they know they have heard truth.

I believe in pre-trib, so if there is not a gathering up of the first fruits of the saints, the Bride of Christ in a flash and I have to stay and endure the first half of the 7 year tribulation, I won't be mad, a bit sad but not mad...BUT the biggest thing I know for sure and can place my rest in is this. Noah was secured, Lot and his family was removed before, so will not the saints of God of this time also be prepared and covered by the Lord's protection as well? I believe so.

There is not one person on this earth who has it 100% correct, we are all in error in some places that we are not aware of yet. What happens if we remain in the error when He comes? It is burned out of the believer at the day of refiner's fire, the Judgement seat. The wood, hay and stubble is burned out and the gold and silver remain, rewards are given and we are allowed entrance.

[quote=Adonaicole,Apr 20 2006, 09:25 AM]
[B]I am prepared [/B]to survive through any number of tribulations. Economic hardship? [B]I'm prepared[/B]. Cut off the food supply? [B]I'm prepared[/B]. Flee to the wilderness? [B] I'm prepared[/B]. Whatever comes, [B]I'm confident [/B]that God has prepared me well and he will guide me.

No matter what happens, I will not be afraid but will cling to the Lord in faith.
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The attitude of "self reliance" and self confidence in facing obstacles into that scenario of the future is setting one up for a prideful fall.

Pro 16:13 Righteous lips [are] the delight of kings; and they love him that speaketh right. Pro 16:14 The wrath of a king [is as] messengers of death: but a wise man will pacify it. Pro 16:15 In the light of the king's countenance [is] life; and his favour [is] as a cloud of the latter rain. Pro 16:16 How much better [is it] to get wisdom than gold! and to get understanding rather to be chosen than silver! Pro 16:17 The highway of the upright [is] to depart from evil: he that keepeth his way preserveth his soul. Pro 16:18 Pride [goeth] before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall. Pro 16:19 Better [it is to be] of an humble spirit with the lowly, than to divide the spoil with the proud. Pro 16:20 He that handleth a matter wisely shall find good: and whoso trusteth in the LORD, happy [is] he. Pro 16:21 The wise in heart shall be called prudent: and the sweetness of the lips increaseth learning.

I don't think that's self reliance... his last statement was that God had prepared him well and will guide him... all the glory to Him!

If the Lord tells us to prepare... how is that being prideful? not trying to start a fight... really asking humbly. Thanks!

[quote=Roxygal,Apr 20 2006, 09:45 AM]
I don't think that's self reliance... his last statement was that God had prepared him well and will guide him... all the glory to Him!

If the Lord tells us to prepare... how is that being prideful? not trying to start a fight... really asking humbly. Thanks!
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To my mind "I'm prepared" is self reliance. I have not any such feeling within me as to believe I will be prepared. Even Christ has said...

Luk 21:14 Settle [it] therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: Luk 21:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist. Luk 21:16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and [some] of you shall they cause to be put to death. Luk 21:17 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake. Luk 21:18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish. Luk 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.

Well I don’t know what to believe (rapture vs. no rapture).

In one hand I think there will be no rapture and all this end of days thing is not correct.
What I mean is, the antichrist is not a real person, there will be no 7-year trib.

In the other hand I think if the rapture happens then the only people left will be Muslims buddies, Jews (144000) and non-believers.
The Muslims will be the most aggressive and will rule the world. The will say allah destroyed the infidels and will force everyone to worship allah (satan).
Just like they did in the past they will cut off peoples heads if they don’t.

I don’t know about you but I read stories and seen pic of what they do in their countries and it doesn’t sound like the left behind book stuff.

Either way I’m taking it day by day and if it is the end of days then all I can say is cool. If it is not the bummer but that’s cool too (maybe I should put more away in my 401k )

Personaly, I'd be very suprised if there was a pre-tribulation rapture. I live with the expectation that there will not be one and troubled times are ahead. According to how I understand it, the pre-wrath rapture is more likely. Y'all just don't know how much I would sure LIKE to be snatched outta here before the snot hits the fan, though. lol

[quote=Maz,Apr 20 2006, 11:48 AM]
[quote=Roxygal,Apr 20 2006, 09:45 AM]
I don't think that's self reliance... his last statement was that God had prepared him well and will guide him... all the glory to Him!

If the Lord tells us to prepare... how is that being prideful? not trying to start a fight... really asking humbly. Thanks!
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To my mind "I'm prepared" is self reliance. I have not any such feeling within me as to believe I will be prepared. Even Christ has said...

Luk 21:14 Settle [it] therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: Luk 21:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist. Luk 21:16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and [some] of you shall they cause to be put to death. Luk 21:17 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake. Luk 21:18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish. Luk 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
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I understand that, but I don't think his statement was from "his mind" I took it from "HIS mind" How do you know that the Lord has not prepared him that way? He could have put things in his path for that very reason. I do understand how dangerous it is to "think". But if it's coming directly from the Lord should he not share it?

[quote=Roxygal,Apr 20 2006, 09:51 AM]
[quote=Maz,Apr 20 2006, 11:48 AM]
[quote=Roxygal,Apr 20 2006, 09:45 AM]
I don't think that's self reliance... his last statement was that God had prepared him well and will guide him... all the glory to Him!

If the Lord tells us to prepare... how is that being prideful? not trying to start a fight... really asking humbly. Thanks!
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To my mind "I'm prepared" is self reliance. I have not any such feeling within me as to believe I will be prepared. Even Christ has said...

Luk 21:14 Settle [it] therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: Luk 21:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist. Luk 21:16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and [some] of you shall they cause to be put to death. Luk 21:17 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake. Luk 21:18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish. Luk 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
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I understand that, but I don't think his statement was from "his mind" I took it from "HIS mind" How do you know that the Lord has not prepared him that way? He could have put things in his path for that very reason. I do understand how dangerous it is to "think". But if it's coming directly from the Lord should he not share it?
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When I share (as always) things "directly from the Lord" I am challenged and placarded as "dangerous." Anything that "originates" in self, the Lord is not obligated to bless. Having said that, He works through all things. Even unto the end of the ages.

1Cor 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and [that] there be no divisions among you; but [that] ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all. Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Col 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also [do] ye. Col 3:14 And above all these things [put on] charity, which is the bond of perfectness. Col 3:15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.

Maz, I'm sorry if you thought I was referring to you... writing is so much harder than talking... sorry. I just think that people cannot know what's in eachother's hearts regarding what the Lord is telling them to do. Sure we can discern to an extent, but we can't truly know what's in their hearts.

[quote=Roxygal,Apr 20 2006, 10:16 AM]
Maz, I'm sorry if you thought I was referring to you... writing is so much harder than talking... sorry. I just think that people cannot know what's in eachother's hearts regarding what the Lord is telling them to do. Sure we can discern to an extent, but we can't truly know what's in their hearts.
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+ Fear not the religious traditions and "structures" of man. Fear not "any" aspect of the world order! For truly I say to you, My living Word and My Spirit are more than enough to overcome all that you will confront, and all that shall confront you!

+ This is not a time of "levity" in the midst of the congregations of My people, but rather a most "serious time" of consecration and receptiveness to the words of My holy apostles and prophets.

+ My church is no longer going to be a church that only "talks" of Me. They shall be a church with "Me" in their midst!

+ I have anointed you unto a "holy destruction" of all that is apart from Me in the midst of My people!

+ To the degree that My children measure My forgiveness towards them, it will be to that degree that they are "enabled" to abide in forgiveness towards others!

+ "Social fellowship" [rooted in self-desire] in the midst of My children is a "curse" for it tends only to keep them in bondage to what men require rather than what I require.

JTL Ministries

I do not speak out of pride. I do not deserve to be saved, it is only in God's grace and mercy that I have hope, wretched sinner that I am.

Matthew 25
1Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

2And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

3They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

4But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

5While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

6And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

7Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

8And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

9But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

10And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

13Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.


Who is the foolish virgin? The one who is prepared and watching or the one who says I have no need to prepare or watch.

That's a lot better than what I had to say... Well said, Adonaicole.
I'm sure everyone knows I'm not a bible scholar. I believe what the Lord puts in my heart.

[quote=NoFool,Apr 20 2006, 11:50 AM]
Personaly, I'd be very suprised if there was a pre-tribulation rapture. I live with the expectation that there will not be one and troubled times are ahead. According to how I understand it, the pre-wrath rapture is more likely. Y'all just don't know how much I would sure LIKE to be snatched outta here before the snot hits the fan, though. lol
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I am in complete agreement. I believe that there will be a pre-trib rapture, therefore the question of there not being IS hypothetical, yet......if this did not end up being the case, the only thing you could do is use the extra time to try and witness to family and friends that have not accepted Jesus, for time truly would be just about at an end.

Pray, pray, pray.

If God told me 7 years of plenty and 7 years of drought l'd prepare.

If God said don't bring anything just go. I'd do it.

If God told me to stand and die with his name on my lips l'd do it.

Well Rose, I think your question is a great one. I've seen so many post-trib people assert that rapture believers are just ill-prepared because they are in deception.

I don't want to be brash like Peter. Really, I have no idea what my reaction will be to the seven trumpets, bowls, viles. Oh dear, I just don't know.

However, I will close my eyes and Praise the God of heaven and earth. He is worthy! He is worthy in my storms. He is worthy in all my dry places. He is worthy of all my worship and praise.

What an unbelievable honor it would be to give my life to the cause of Christ... I know that my life, just like Stephen's life, would glorify Him and bring more souls into the kingdom.

Beyond all of that, my fervent prayer during that horrible time would be that God would USE ME to bring in lost souls. That He would sure my steps. AND FINALLY, that He would bring on fire believers in my life that would walk in His promises and power.

Julie, amen! I have read so many theories about the rapture and not one stands out to me, though about the catching up, I have many questions and am still studying it through... but if there really is no rapture, I always wondered what others who did believe in it would do if they were all of a sudden faced with the reality that it was all a lie...

I appreciate everyone's answers here... I feel like I am part of a warrior forum!!!! You all have such great love and faith! thank you!

From birth I was taught to believe in a pre-rapture. Not until a friend challenged my beliefs did I begin to dig for myself. I must admit that I could not reconcile some of the scripture from the pre-trib view. I now lean towards a pre-wrath view BUT, I am not so dogmatic that I do not listen to what others have to say. To me it just really does not matter what you believe on this subject We just need to be ready.

If God raptures us out prior to the Trib, Praise the LORD! I would not be any happier. BUT if it does not go down that way I will not be surprised.
If the rapture takes place 1st then we need to be ready to stand before our
Maker.
Yet if we are left to go through this period than we need to be ready spiritually,
and physically.

Once again I will say that God revealed to Joseph the need to PREPARE For the famine. Because of his obedience he saved many people. So I do think God does reveal to his children the need to prepare. Yet I am not so naive as to think that being prepared physically will be what will cause me to endure if we are left behind.
It will ultimately be the protection that comes from God Almighty. And even then His will may for me to die for my faith. I just need to focus on my walk with the Father, and remain steadfast in His Word!

Your Friend In Christ,
Valerie

Messiahiscoming

I was reading a commentary on Revelation by Vernon McGee, he did the Thru the Bible Series... and he was pretty explicit about the church being taken away, but only one kind of church, the Church of Philadelphia because they kept His Word and did not deny His Name. The rest of the 'church' was left behind... because they were lax in their ways, were causing others to fall away, etc. There were 7 letters to 7 churches, yet only 1 type church was told they would be taken away. So he is saying that not ALL Christians will be raptured, but those who have a profound love and desire to obey and are on fire for the Lord. This was an eye opener!!!

Thanks Don, Maz, Shaun, Lisa, Tig, Pamela and Valerie. I always wondered what others would do in a situation such as this. I am so glad I asked! The faith of this forum is awesome! May the Lord bless us all. Tig, thanks for the pep talk! :-)

[quote=lifeinhim61,Apr 20 2006, 07:49 PM]
Thanks Don, Maz, Shaun, Lisa, Tig, Pamela and Valerie. I always wondered what others would do in a situation such as this. I am so glad I asked! The faith of this forum is awesome! May the Lord bless us all. Tig, thanks for the pep talk! :-)
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ANYTIME!

[quote=Roxygal,Apr 20 2006, 10:20 AM]
Ok, well what if we just looked at the bible like a child... children are not scholars, they don't dig and dig until they confuse themselves.

Look to the Lord with a child's heart. He will guide you where you need to go. Rapture or no rapture... never really mattered to me. I have a job to do while I'm here. If I happen to be here when the great tribulation goes on, well then, I'll just listen to what the Lord wants me to do.

Don't trip yourselves up thinking too much!!! Listen to your hearts... that's where our Lord is!

Love you all more than I could possibly express with written words!!!!
Lisa
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Amen Lisa!!!
I want to stay childlike in faith and mature enough to handle whatever our
Lord has prepared. He has it all planned out and what is His perfect will,
I must accept.

I just want to be with Him forever and ever.
What I hear from the Lord lately on my daily
walks, is percivere and endure I am coming soon.

That might even mean I will die before His return.
He may be taking me home soon. Maybe my time is
soon up. But I will live each day knowing I love Him
and He loves me and letting that love shine to everyone
I meet. Having the love of my family and my family
here, sure makes the journey a happy one. So if I stop
writing it will only be because I have gone to be with the
Lord, or my computer crashed, or no one has hydro.
Okay I know that isn't funny, but it could happen.

God bless you all,
from rosie

[quote=onetiggerroo,Apr 20 2006, 10:29 AM]
What happens is the devil lures you away in doubt. I really think that GOD wants us to be more concerned with bringing in the lost than which doctrinal teaching is correct. I know that it is important for each of us to know these things. There is a fine line that we are to walk. Search the scriptures, ALL of them. I posted many scritures and people just waltzed past without so much as a look at GOD'S WORD concerning the subject matter. So, what happens when we look outside the BIBLE for the answer is that the WORD becomes the doctrine of man. It becomes watered down and is of no use any longer.

This is bringing in the STONG DELUSIONS that GOD'S WORD says it will bring.

The family of GOD needs to get back on track with GOD first.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

GOD'S WORD doesn't say pick the scriptures that fit your meaning,. He wants us to know HIS MEANING. Rightly dividing the word of truth. That means reading and studying the WHOLE WORD on the subject. Reading the verses in context and understanding the true meaning of GOD'S WORD.


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Amen!

[quote=Miki,Apr 20 2006, 05:49 PM]
I God old me 7 years of plenty and 7 years of drought l'd prepare.

If God said don't bring anything just go. I'd do it.

If God told me to stand and die with his name on my lips l'd do it.
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Amen!
His will be done!

I believe its in God's hands for sure. There's nothing it seems for me to change or prevent anything but to go about doing what I've been doing while I work around HIS plans. Jus t to trust him. It's hard and I believe I know how the whole thing will wrap up, but I am so eager to get the end-time show on the road. It's gonna be tough but I have the promise of Revelations 3:10 tucked in my shirt pocket and in my heart (thanks rtk ).

Though the things in my life might seem contrary to how I would like it to go, I realize later he has moved me here and there keeping me out of harms way, and I believe he's doing it again, even on the surface one would think I am loosing my job. Not to worry. I believe the Lord is bringing about this change for something bigger, not like bigger in the sense of better job (though I hope for that anyway) but to have me dodge a big bullet, which he had done literally before in my life.

It's like positioning me to watch a dramatic crisis unfold from a safe distance. May the Lord keep all of you out of harms way. I pray!

Roxy says:

"Ok, well what if we just looked at the bible like a child... children are not scholars, they don't dig and dig until they confuse themselves.

Look to the Lord with a child's heart. He will guide you where you need to go".
------------------------------------------------------------------

Ha! A rhema word for sure Roxy!

You might dig a hole so deep you can't get out again.

I could say what I would do, but it matters not. For wherever God leads us, those of us whom wish to follow, he will provide us with what we need, even if we think we always NEED MORE.
I faced death before, I know that I had to let go of everything and just Trust him.
He then filled my spirit and heart with so much Peace that I told my family, that I love you so much, but if it is God's will for me to leave this Worldly plain, please trust in God...his love is so Powerful, nothing can compare.
His love overcame Everything...all the sins of the World.
As they wheeled me to the operating room, I was smiling and asking everyone I saw...Do you beleive in God. I wanted to go out trying to convince others that God's love is Amazing...and some smiled and said nothing, and one man that gave me a shot in the neck seemed irratated with my sounding off about how much I love God...and therefore ended up having to try in find my vain in my neck 4 times...it was so painful and I knew he was in real spiritual pain for my joy of God irratated him. When I finally was in the operating room. I said so this is what an operating room looks like, and everyone chuckled. Then I looked up into the face of the assisting surgeon and all I could see was his eyes for they all had blue masks on. I asked him, Will you pray for me...he nodded and I could see his eyes smiling. The next scene was me waking up, The first face I saw was my surgeon surrounded in white light (his face) SMILING NO CANCER.

a word for reflection..

please consider what the three Hebrew boys, shadrach, meshach, and abedneggo, were faced with due to the order of king nebuchadnezzar of babylon, who set up the image of gold...to be bowed down to...

he put the order out...there was an inauguration ceremony....music from many instruments played...the order was to bow before it, when they heard the sound of the music played.

any that would not bow to this image were to be cast into the burning fiery furnace and destroyed....

but...look it up , and SEE and LISTEN to the manner in which these three replied to the kings command...!!!

it think it is in daniel, chapter 3 ..?

but their response to the kings order is appropriate to consider in this topic.

perhaps, someone could post precisely what they said to the king....
i do not have my bible here...

but the exact words are appropriate in this discussion. and it is my thought that this should be our attitude in these perilous time. this is the kind of faith that we should also have, in our Holy God.

love,
bz

wernotalone... that is a POWERFUL testimony!!! You have a sweet spirit and a very immense love for God... I am so glad you are here with us to tell us this testimony... no cancer... YAYAYAY!!! God love you so much!

it is also appropriate for our time, for the scripture says that " an image will be set up to be worshipped, the "image of the wild beast"
and that any that will not worship the wild beast, along with the false prophet that decieves people into the worship of it, will be killed.

all that will not worship the image....

-from the revelation given to John.

found my sister's husband's bible here in the house..
it is, DANIEL CHAPTER 3.

please notice the reply of the hebrews to the fury of king nebuchadnezzar....

Werenotalone,

Wow, what a wonderful testimony!!!! The Lord must be very proud of you.. you placed everything in His hands! And He gave you peace and healing... what a wonderful way to go through life! Isn't the Lord so great!!!

So very glad to hear that He had different plans for you!!!

Many Blessings!!
Love, Lisa



Miki... I guess being around children so much has taught me a thing or two about our Lord!!!

Werenotalone thank you for sharing that, YES that was a great testimony...

the scripture must be fulfilled.
it is written in Daniel, concerning the time of the end, that the power of the holy ones must be broken. Daniel 12.

it is written in Revelation that ENDURANCE will be necessary on the part of the holy ones. Revelation 14:12.

the holy ones must also drink from the same cup that their Lord himself did.

Revelation 6:10, 11 must also come to be. it must be fulfilled.
indeed, all the holy ones must be killed, as their fellow servants of times past were.

it is written.

JESUS said this:
"Do you think that i cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen this way?"
-Matthew 26:53
the scriptures clearly tell of what must happen to the holy ones,
and it shall be according to how it is written.

God's word will be true. It will prove to be.

but, how do you read, what is written?

-bz

[quote=lifeinhim61,Apr 20 2006, 07:47 PM]
I was reading a commentary on Revelation by Vernon McGee, he did the Thru the Bible Series... and he was pretty explicit about the church being taken away, but only one kind of church, the Church of Philadelphia because they kept His Word and did not deny His Name. The rest of the 'church' was left behind... because they were lax in their ways, were causing others to fall away, etc. There were 7 letters to 7 churches, yet only 1 type church was told they would be taken away. So he is saying that not ALL Christians will be raptured, but those who have a profound love and desire to obey and are on fire for the Lord. This was an eye opener!!!
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i agree with what your saying but these 7 churches are church ages. We make that last church age. However the 7 churches also describe the different types of Christians.
If some one disagrees then that's cool. this isn't my strongest subject yet.

I am pre-trib so far and I also feel that not all Christians will be raptured. There will be many left behind even more than one thinks.

Well, to your original question...What will someone do if there is no rapture....


WE WILL PLACE OUR TRUST IN THE LORD....through it all, amen!

That is a good question sis! For me personally I am being taught at the moment to lay down my life and just trust HIM in everything! I pray I am learning His will for me and for all His children! Amen. you sis, your sis, hannah

[COLOR=blue][quote=messiahiscoming,Apr 20 2006, 07:32 PM]
From birth I was taught to believe in a pre-rapture. Not until a friend challenged my beliefs did I begin to dig for myself. I must admit that I could not reconcile some of the scripture from the pre-trib view. I now lean towards a pre-wrath view BUT, I am not so dogmatic that I do not listen to what others have to say. To me it just really does not matter what you believe on this subject We just need to be ready.

If God raptures us out prior to the Trib, Praise the LORD! I would not be any happier. BUT if it does not go down that way I will not be surprised.
If the rapture takes place 1st then we need to be ready to stand before our
Maker.
Yet if we are left to go through this period than we need to be ready spiritually,
and physically.

Once again I will say that God revealed to Joseph the need to PREPARE For the famine. Because of his obedience he saved many people. So I do think God does reveal to his children the need to prepare. Yet I am not so naive as to think that being prepared physically will be what will cause me to endure if we are left behind.
It will ultimately be the protection that comes from God Almighty. And even then His will may for me to die for my faith. I just need to focus on my walk with the Father, and remain steadfast in His Word!

Your Friend In Christ,
Valerie

Messiahiscoming
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{{Valerie}}

That's what happened to me

[U]ALL [/U]of you have written some very good things here!

{{wernotalone}}
Thank you for sharing that with us!!

We should be ready at all times to meet the Lord and at all times we should be sharing our faith with everyone

May you all be blessed by Yahweh


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thank you and Much Love and Peace to you all.

Before I accepted Jesus Christ, I realized that we were in deep doo doo as a planet. I could accept all the bad parts of Revelation, but had a hard time believing that God was real. Even after accepting the LORD, I still had a hard time accepting the possibility of a pre-Trib rapture. This was despite many, many rapture dreams I had as a little girl, despite no knowledge of the rapture. It was only this year that I began to believe in the possibility of a first fruits/pre-trib rapture. What a relief! I've been waiting for plagues and persecution since before I ever knew the LORD, and it is great to find that at least some Christians will be spared from the tribulation (whether He will have us die before the tribulation or whether He will raise us into the sky, only He knows for sure). I have been able to imagine the terror of the tribulation for many, many years, but now I continually obey the LORD by praying that my little family and I "will be accounted worthy to escape all these things," and that we will be offered the open door that was promised to the Church of Philadelphia.

What really terrifies me is to imagine being taken up to heaven, but not being able to save my loved ones who have no interest in the LORD. It would be terrible to have the LORD take my husband and children, leaving me behind, or vice versa. As imperfect as my children, husband and I are, I pray that the LORD will take us all together, by whatever means He sees fit, rather than separate us during the Tribulation. I have resigned myself to the fact that I can't reach my friends and extended family.

Until the LORD comes again for me, I will wait. I know He will come, because even if the Tribulation does not come in our lifetimes, our lives will eventually end. He will come for us. Years ago I used to worry that maybe the Gospel was a lie, but God has opened my heart and has taken away my doubts. We just have to keep the faith, keep waiting, and keep working--trying to bring others to repent and accept the free gift of salvation from Jesus Christ. We are going to see Jesus. Maybe tomorrow, maybe in a few decades...

God bless you!

God does provide a way of escape from the Great Tribulation it is true. This escape is described in Rev 12 where the church flees into the wilderness to a place of safety where she is fed for the tribulation period. There is no scripture to indicate that we will be raptured into heaven to escape the tribulation. The rapture (properly called the resurrection) occurs AFTER the Tribulation when the Lord returns with a blast of the trumpet and with brightness of lightning across the sky.

As for your question about earthquakes fire etc. These events have come upon men during all ages of the world and are not peculiar to the end times. They will probably increase in intensity toward the end time. However preparation for disaster is something which we all should undertake as a matter of prudence. Getting out of doors and confronting our fears by spending days and weeks in the bush in rough conditions is a very valuable exercise. You will learn not to take for granted the comforts we have in this life. This modern world sits on a knife edge. We are all living under damoclese sword. It wouldnt take an intervention by God to bring the whole house of cards crashing down. Economic collapse, world war, pandemic, any number of things could blow the house down. These events are far more likely to occur in our lifetimes than the Great Tribulation is. So we can start preparing ourselves now by getting off our tails and toughening ourselves up through self-imposed hardship, thrifty living, stocking up supplies, growing vegetables in the back yard, weaning ourselves off all the pleasures and entertainments of this world. This will prepare us to some extent for what may well come soon. If we don't prepare we will be in for an awful, awful shock and that's even before we get close to the Great Tribulation. It seems to me that if we spend our time fearing these events and figuring out how we are going to escape them then we are simply retreating into our hermetically sealed bubble and building up a greater monster out there than it really is. Rather we should be preparing ourselves to be able to cope with these events.

The human being is capable of surviving incredible hardship and deprivation. His natural instinct to survive is unsurpassed in all the creatures. His adaptability to survive in the harshest of environments is unmatched by any other species. When we add to this the providence of the Lord God who looks after us as he looks after the little sparrows, then we really have nothing to worry about. Which is why God says to take no thought about what you shall eat and what you shall wear. Think about renouncing and giving up this life as a way of preparing for and be counting for worthy of escape. Notice again that God promises a way of escape to those who are worthy from the Great Tribulation, but no such promise is given to indicate that we can escape every disaster.

What I find most tragic about your post is the concept which the pre-trib rapture teaching has left you with that hardship, trial and tribulation even great tribulation is an indication that God has failed in a promise to you. Nothing could be further from the truth. God's punishments are given to us because he loves us, he chastises every son which he loves. In the pretrib scenario the poor people left behind are left to feel as if they have been abandoned by God who has left them without a church, without the Holy Spirit, missing out on the wedding supper, not included as a bride of Christ. This is a disgraceful and vile teaching which should be hated by all bible believing scriptures.

For your encouragement here is Hebrews 12 one of the most magnificent passages in all the scriptures although there are so many:
12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author [1] and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. 5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after [2] their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. 11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby. 12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;

Fear God and his scourging by correcting ourselves and purging ourselves of all sin so that we need not fall into the hands of the living God. But if he does scourge us, rejoice, as it evidences that we are his beloved children who our Father is purifying so that we may take our place in his heavenly kingdom.