Why, when and where did all the Jewish Christians come from all of a sudden? Why would anyone want to start trying to live out the torah?

I became a Christian for many reasons and living under the laws of Moses was soooooooo hard....I knew there must be another way to heaven...and then I found Christ and His FREE gift of Grace....Why mess that up with the law instead of just being loving of each other and a lover of the Lords? Just curious as this has been on my mind.

I had a long conversation with my RC friend, who BTW is still worried that I am going to hell since I left the RCC. She finally stopped arguing with me about "how only RC's get to go to heaven" when I said EITHER YOU ARE CHRISTS OR YOU AREN'T AND DEMON-INATIONS didn't matter a lick!!! Why are some of the Christians trying to live out Jewish law? I am just soooo confused about this matter, any answers for me? your sister, hannah

YEP! that is my thoughts Hannah, exactly. Were you inside my mind today????

You silly goose, yes...I was in your head today!!! You are going to make me fall out my chair laughing! Love you sis... your sis, hannah

>Why, when and where did all the Jewish Christians come from all of a sudden?

I do not know.

I have noticed a lot more Messianic Christianity too.

I am in awe of Paul and Peter and what God has made sure remained in the Bible so that we today can see that these same arguments existed 1900+ years ago.

It is not only hard to live under the "law", it's impossible for mankind to do. And so often (just like 1900 years ago) that air of superiority exists - that I'm better than you because I am keeping law...

I am thankful for grace, liberty, freedom... I steer clear of anyone or thing that would take my Christian liberty away - in an attempt to put me under bondage.

I am so thankful that Jesus paid the price for me - and you.

Dani

God gave the law of Moses to us so that sin would have power over man, which in turn breaks the law and we are all covicted as transgresors
but where sin abounded through the power of the law of Moses, the Grace of God abounded much more.
all have transgresed the law of Moses and fallen short of Gods requirement, so the intention of God that every mouth might be stoped from its judgement
this is the function of the law to convict and to stop men from judgement
and to show Mercy for we are all in need of Mercy, and those who show no Mercy will themselves be shown no Mercy

This is what the Law of Moses was designed and given for so that all mankind could learn but some are a little slower than others


nice to see you back Hanah

Gary

It started with Jesus and his followers, they were the first "Jewish Christians".

My perspective is that some Christians are not trying to follow the legalistic Jewish laws but rather replacing some of the Christian rituals that are based on pagan custom with the Biblical holy days that are based on truth and are a celebration and reminder of God power and love. For example, instead of telling my son about a fictious easter bunny who lays painted eggs, I told him how God saved the nation of Israel out of bondage in Egypt.

I agree with Adonaicole. I have a number of friends, who are gentiles (like me!!) who have decided of late they are messianic gentiles. I think it stems from knowing Christianity comes from Judaism, and feeling that keeping torah keeps them more pure of spirit, and perhaps feel closer to Yeshua. Many of them are not convinced that G-d ever intended for the holy days to stop being practiced. It is a learning process, I suppose. Certainly, they could live much more easily under His grace, but if they choose to keep holy days, etc, I cannot imagine G-d scowling over it.

*Editing to clarify that I have many gentile friends who are grasping on to Moses' Law...I didn't mean to say that I was one of them. Back to your regularly scheduled postings...

I find it odd too Hannah, but perhaps in order to keep the Jewish feasts and observe the holidays? Use it as an excuse that you are Jewish....and observe the Jewish holidays, but wait..you're Christian and observe Christian holidays. I honestly don't know but perhaps to get more time off from work from all the holidays?

Besides, I thought Messianic Jews were simply Christians; but reading other threads I'm confused. I'm just happy to be a Christian.

I don't know!!

You know Marta, I am confused too, that was why I was asking!

I also am glad to be a Christian no matter the denomination. I just had long conversation with a dear friend who is RC and she is worried that I left the RCC and may go to hell. I asked her "Does it really matter what denomination one is...it seems to me it is more about WHO IS SURRENDERED TO CHRIST and not what someone may call themselves.

But this trend to return to Mosasic law has me worried that some do not believe or trust in Jesus's atonement for ALL OF OUR SINS...no matter how small or great they are, so I am in the same boat as you!

I am glad to see that I am not the only one who is noticing this...do I think it bad...no, not necessarily, if one has faith in Christ and is loving the Lord and their brother, I think His gift of grace can cover "law keeping" as well as other sins. I guess if you consider law keeping a sin, I dunno, I just love HIM and trust in His gift of grace to get me through....And when I have been there ten thousand years I will still be amazed by GRACE, amen!!!

Well, now I am singing a joyful noise of Amazing Grace unto our Lord, amen! to all, your sis, hannah ALWAYS!

Here's what wikipic says about it:While some Messianic Jews are possibly ethnically Jewish (and as such would be considered Jews even by traditional Jewish standards), Messianic Judaism is not recognized as a legitimate form of Judaism by recognized Jewish organization or leaders. Mainstream Jewish denominations and organizations hold that Messianic Jews are not practicing Judaism, but Protestant Christianity. Messianic Judaism is held to be non-Jewish by Reform, Orthodox, Conservative, and Reconstructionist Judaism. Most Jewish groups consider the movement to be an evangelizing tool created and supported by larger Christian denominations.

Many Messianic leaders are ordained clergy of various Christian denominations and a number of the Messianic clergy have no ethnic connection to Judaism. A growing list of Christian denominations, such as the Southern Baptist Convention and the Assemblies of God movement, actively participate in establishing Messianic congregations as part of their efforts to evangelize the Jewish people. At the present time, more than ten different Christian denominations count Messianic congregations as members of their denomination. These congregations almost by definition begin at the far evangelical pole (if they can be considered Messianic at all), but often move towards the Torah pole. Some Christians, mostly liberal, feel that Messianic groups are guilty of false advertising. In 1977, for example, the Board of Governors of the Long Island Council of Churches (New York) accused Jews for Jesus of "engaging in subterfuge and dishonesty," and of "mixing religious symbols in ways that distort their essential meaning." The Jews for Jesus organization filed a lawsuit, which was ultimately rejected, against the 600-member council in the New York State Supreme Court in Manhattan. (The New York Times, July 2, 1977). (In New York State, a Supreme Court is a general trial court equivalent to a District Court in most other states.)

Another organization critical of the Messianic Movement is the Interfaith Conference of Metropolitan Washington. In 1997 this group, comprising liberal Christian, as well as Jewish and Muslim leaders, put out a strongly worded statement, condemning the proselytization efforts of the Messianic Movement. Most Evangelicals reject the criticism and defend evangelism among Jews.

Some Evangelicals, however, have criticized the Messianic Movement on entirely different grounds. Some consider the movement to be "too Jewish" for holding on to parts of the Old Testament that many Christians believe are not applicable today. This criticism is not widespread in Evangelical circles, but appears to be growing, especially as the movement defines itself as a Judaism.

Pamela,
Thank you for the posting but I have to reply to someone here:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hannah,

OH man...pleazeeeeeeee!! I'm sorry; but if your friend is concerned that since you left the RC then you will go to hell?

Do you know how WRONG that sounds?

CHRIST WILL NEVER LEAVE YOU NOR FORSAKE YOU AND IT IS THROUGH HIS GRACE AND HIS BLOOD, THAT WE ARE SAVED!!! Yeah I can work all I can to be as perfect as I can be..........but I cannot be perfect! Maybe it is just me, but the only person that came down to earth and was perfect was JESUS CHRIST.....GOD INCARNATE IN THE FLESH!

Nobody and I mean nobody can do what HE did...the ULTIMATE SACRIFICIAL LAMB that we all may rejoice and be comforted that HE DIED FOR US!

How hard is that to get??

I'm not mad at you at all by any means Hannah, but your friend who condemns you to hell because you have abandoned the RCC??

I'm sorry but do I have this correct? If so; then somebody in the RCC needs to check their faith and correction, because it all seems so wrong!

it is a distortion of the true gospel that man has used the gospel to make captives to religion
Jesus did not set men free to become slaves to religion he set us free to serve Him the apostle Paul warns us not to become the slaves of men

it is God who teaches us through His word and the Holy Spirit and we need no man to teach us 1 John

there will be a lot of red faces amoungst ministers of religion

It will be a lot worse than red faces.

30 "Therefore prophesy against them all these words, and say to them: 'The Lord will roar from on high, And utter His voice from His holy habitation; He will roar mightily against His fold. He will give a shout, as those who tread the grapes, Against all the inhabitants of the earth.
31 A noise will come to the ends of the earth-- For the Lord has a controversy with the nations; He will plead His case with all flesh. He will give those who are wicked to the sword,' says the Lord."
32 Thus says the Lord of hosts: "Behold, disaster shall go forth From nation to nation, And a great whirlwind shall be raised up From the farthest parts of the earth.
33 And at that day the slain of the Lord shall be from one end of the earth even to the other end of the earth. They shall not be lamented, or gathered, or buried; they shall become refuse on the ground.
34 "Wail, shepherds, and cry! Roll about in the ashes, You leaders of the flock! For the days of your slaughter and your dispersions are fulfilled; You shall fall like a precious vessel.
35 And the shepherds will have no way to flee, Nor the leaders of the flock to escape.
36 A voice of the cry of the shepherds, And a wailing of the leaders to the flock will be heard. For the Lord has plundered their pasture,
37 And the peaceful dwellings are cut down Because of the fierce anger of the Lord.


Charlie

Salvation is for All Beleivers:

Romans 11:11
I say, then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

12. Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the gentiles, how much more their fulness? (SOUND FAMILAR?)

13. For I speak to you Gentiles inasmuch as I am the apostle of the gentiles, I magnify mine office:

14. If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

15. For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

16. For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy, and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17. And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree:

18. Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19. thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed IN..
NOTE THIS VERSE and understand through the spirit of the LORD our God.

20. Well: because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith.
Be not HIGHMINDED, but FEAR:

21. For if God spared not the natural branches, Take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, svereity; but toward thee, goodness if thou continue in his goodness; otherwise thou also shall be cut off.

23. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graft them in again. AGAIN AMEN

24. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

25. For I would not, brethren that ye should be ignorant of this MYSTERY, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits, that blindness in part is happened to Israel, UNTIL THE FULNESS OF THE GENTILES BE COME IN.

26. And so ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED, as it is written. There shall come out of Sion the DELIVERER, and shall TURN AWAY ungodliness from Jacob.

27. FOR THIS IS MY COVENANT UNTO THEM, when I SHALL TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS.

28. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes, but as touching the election, they are beloved for the FATHERS' sakes.

29. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

30. for as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through THEIR UNBELIEF:

31. Even so have these also now not believed, that through YOUR MERCY THEY ALSO OBTAIN MERCY.

32. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy UPON ALL.

33. O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

34. For who hath known the mind of the LORD? or who hath been his Councellor?

35. Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
AGAIN AGAIN AMEN

36. For OF HIM, and THROUGH HIM, and TO HIM, are ALL things: to whom be GLORY FOR EVER AND EVER. AMEN



Give these verses to the RCC.

Romans 10: 4....Elenor...LOL

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that beleiveth.

5. For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

6. But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise. Say NOT IN THINE HEART, WHO SHALL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)

7. Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

8. But what saith it? the word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that is, the word of faith, which we preach:

9. That if thou shlat confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and shalt beleive in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10. For with the heart man beleiveth unto righteousness: and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth OH HIM shall not be ashamed.

12. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich unto all the CALL UPON HIM.

13. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the LORD SHALL BE SAVED.

14. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not beleived? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15. And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THEM THAT PREACH the gospel of Peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

YOU ARE ALL PRECIOUS IN HIS SIGHT...GLORY TO GOD IN THE HIGHEST, PEACE ON EARTH GOOD WILL TOWARDS MAN and WO MAN