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daysofnoah
Check out this article from CBN.com:

(CBN News) - A year ago, Greg Martin says he could not have led a devotional with his teenage daughters. The reason: he was playing in a Sunday baseball league that took priority over going to church.

As a result, Martin was feeling disconnected to a place where, in the past, he had felt at home. And he found himself unable to be the father he wanted to be.

“You start to see compromises take place when you're not sitting under good teaching, good preaching, and perennial fellowship with believers…,” Martin said. “If I'm not setting a good, godly example to my children by being in church, and I'm out playing baseball, that was a pretty poor example for my children to see.”

For Martin, the desire to play baseball became more important than the desire to be in church. While he did not intend to leave the church, Martin just found less and less time for worship, a problem not uncommon for many men.

And a recent study shows many Christian men feel the same way.

A recent George Barna survey conducted for the men's ministry Promise Keepers found that more than 85 percent of Christian men are only marginally satisfied with their church experience. The study also revealed faith and spirituality are not top priorities for Christian men.

Family and children top the priority list at 42 percent, with career and money following at 39 percent. Health concerns rounded out men's priorities.

The survey also discovered that many men could not identify spiritual needs or goals. These numbers may sound surprising, especially in the past few years, with millions of men turning out for Promise Keeper rallies.

So why with so many Christian men pledging their faith are so many men dissatisfied? Pat Morley heads the ministry Man in the Mirror.

He believes the problem has to do with discipleship. “I think one thing we need to grasp is that it takes a long time to make a disciple,” Morley said. “Most of the big ideas about Christianity take about 10-20 years to sink in…think about words like grace, redemption, salvation, sanctification -- what's that all about? So somebody can become a Christian like that (snap his fingers)? But then, it takes about 10-20 years for these concepts to make sense.”

One of the problems with men and their church experience may be the expectation level.

Dever is with Nine Marks Ministry and is a pastor at Capitol Hill Baptist Church in Washington.

“I think, a lot of times, we try to make church just like another social club,” Dever said.

Dever believes that, for too many men, support fades after the sermon ends. “I don't think the task of evangelism mainly takes place on Sunday morning, when we gather,” he said. “The task of evangelism mainly takes place throughout the week, when the church scatters.”

It is this task that Dever believes churches need to improve in order to disciple men. And how does he plan to do it?

Many theological scholars and ministers believe part of the problem is what they call the ‘feminization of the church,’ meaning that worship and preaching focus a lot on the aspects that appeal to women, such as introspection and love, instead of masculine traits such as power and mission.

This feminization may be seen no further than the church hymnal. Songs like “Onward Christian Soldiers and “A Mighty Fortress is My God” have been replaced with softer praises of a God only found in one's heart.

Steve Turley is founder of Fretboard Fellowship, an evangelical Christian ministry that seeks to awaken all peoples to the worship of God by using music as a means to proclaim, teach, and enjoy the fullness of His glory.

Turley writes that modern "Christian worship is not characterized by a people who celebrate the fact that their King sits on heaven's throne, having conquered all the nations. But instead, focuses more on the pleasure and relief that God brings to the individual experience."

Turley is not the only theologian concerned that the church is feminizing men. Ergun Caner is a professor of theology at Liberty University

“Men are almost scared to speak of masculine things,” Caner asserted. “They want us to speak in terms of ‘I feel’ as opposed to ‘I believe.’ We take responsibility, but they don't want us to do [it] so loudly. We take responsibility, but they don't want us to do so in a way that is boisterous.”

He added, “I think they're not challenged because we're terrified of challenging them…we're so terrified of offending anyone by speaking about true masculinity, about men rising up, and taking -- not control of their wives – but -- joining their wives, together, and being the godly men they're suppose to be.”

Understanding the ideals of a godly man and a godly father is what eventually led Greg Martin back to attending church. He offers this advice to men: “I think they will be satisfied if they find a church where God's word is being taught. There is adequate preaching and there is instruction for men on how to be godly leaders in the home. Somewhere down the line, we have lost biblical masculinity. We have lost the manhood. God called us to be male, he called us to be holy. You can be both at the same time.”

Source: http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/usnews/060413c.asp
c-los medrano
i agree.
go ahead and "boo" me.

edited to say: did i just read that salvation may take up to 20 years?
hmmm not sure about that part. *scratches head*
Miki
I just don't think it's true. I don't see it in my church at all. In fact, it's just the opposite. The men run the show. It's a man's church all the way. I've been to other churches and don't see that issue.

Sometimes the choice of worship music is a little subjective and puts people off.
But it's no excuse.

It's never long enough. That's the real problem. wub.gif

The worship experience is important for men and l find most won't take their guard down. Many hold out and can't seem to enter in...You can't blame it on the worship songs.

If men could examine themselves in this we'd have guys stepping up to the plate in ministry much more. And by that l mean sharing from their hearts...not just passing the collection plate and handing out bulletins.

Men...do you allow yourselves to enter into the worship experience?

Some of you use to do it when you smoked dope and listened to Pink Floyd...
And you shout when your team scores a touch down.

Do you praise? "Shout to the Lord all the earth let us sing! Power and majesty praise to our King...Mountains bough down and seas will roar at the sound of his name".

Or do you hang your hands at your side watching the women glorify him?

If that's the case maybe what you see as feminizing is just your excuse because you refuse to bare your heart. That's what a real man does. That's what our Savior did and that's what the Holy Spirit teaches us through worship if you let him.

No body's asking you to cry (though that would be ok too.) Just to exalt him like you really mean it....

You know those poignant moments...When you desire to lift your hands yet they hang at your sides...

The bridge for me to really worship him came from the revelation of the word worthy.

He's worthy...nothing else is worthy of my worship and praise. Why is he worthy?

For me it's because He is the God of Love...He's good...truly good. He's just and he doesn't lie. He's tender hearted and merciful and full of power and might. He created the universe and everything that was made he made...And we could go on and on...

So l remember when l'm standing in church next to a bunch of sticks,

that my hands go up...

not to show off some supposed holiness

but to show off my adoration and honor to my creator and deliverer....

The worship experience is designed to bring you out of the mindset of the world and and into reality...into his real presence. Try it...You'll like it!
Miki
QUOTE(c-los medrano @ Apr 14 2006, 03:41 PM)
i agree.
go ahead and "boo" me.

edited to say: did i just read that salvation may take up to 20 years?
hmmm not sure about that part. *scratches head*
[right][snapback]53802[/snapback][/right]


No...What he's saying is the true meaning of the word elder. For many it takes years of trial and error to reach this place. You don't just hand eldership to someone because they have a good testimony. They have to show themselves approved. Some sanctification is required here and a knowledge of the word.

How willing are you men to put God first to narrow those years down from 20 to say 7 for instance? I've been the servant for a long time. I'd like to see men show themselves approved through servitude as well.

You need to humble yourselves and participate in small things thereby showing your children an example of a humble man. I believe every man, including the Pastor, should be involved once a week in some form of community service.

Now l'll let me show you the baby bitter root l try to dig out... sad.gif

You think you're so important because you worked all day and you want to come home and sit down. I've got news for you! So did we.

Community service is just as important as cell group once a week.

Nursing homes. Assisted Living.

Don't just leave it to the women. Old people need someone to read to them...and someone to wave a hand in front of their face to let them know they're still alive.

Do you know how many people need transportation? What an opportunity to witness. See...maybe this is why men think women are running the show. You know what? God will use and exalt those who say yes.

Each community has a different responsibility. Look around yours to see what God's needs are. Because when you do it to one of the least of these you do it to him.

Then Sunday morning when worship begins you can raise your hands in truth because you've honored him during the week by putting the needs and desires of HIS heart first! Amen..
gary steed
QUOTE(Miki @ Apr 15 2006, 06:13 AM)
QUOTE(c-los medrano @ Apr 14 2006, 03:41 PM)
i agree.
go ahead and "boo" me.

edited to say: did i just read that salvation may take up to 20 years?
hmmm not sure about that part. *scratches head*
[right][snapback]53802[/snapback][/right]


No...What he's saying is the true meaning of the word elder. For many it takes years of trial and error to reach this place. You don't just hand eldership to someone because they have a good testimony. They have to show themselves approved. Some sanctification is required here and a knowledge of the word.

How willing are you men to put God first to narrow those years down from 20 to say 7 for instance? I've been the servant for a long time. I'd like to see men show themselves approved through servitude as well.

You need to humble yourselves and participate in small things thereby showing your children an example of a humble man. I believe every man, including the Pastor, should be involved once a week in some form of community service.

Now l'll let me show you the baby bitter root l try to dig out... sad.gif

You think you're so important because you worked all day and you want to come home and sit down. I've got news for you! So did we.

Community service is just as important as cell group once a week.

Nursing homes. Assisted Living.

Don't just leave it to the women. Old people need someone to read to them...and someone to wave a hand in front of their face to let them know they're still alive.

Do you know how many people need transportation? What an opportunity to witness. See...maybe this is why men think women are running the show. You know what? God will use and exalt those who say yes.

Each community has a different responsibility. Look around yours to see what God's needs are. Because when you do it to one of the least of these you do it to him.

Then Sunday morning when worship begins you can raise your hands in truth because you've honored him during the week by putting the needs and desires of HIS heart first! Amen..
[right][snapback]54012[/snapback][/right]


i did leave a message for you in a post about how the Holy Spirit let me feel female, and i can say that there is a vast differance between us, but the Holy Spirit is able to Change what we can not, what you see about men can only be resolved in the spiritual, it needs to be serched out with spiritual wisdon and understanding so that we can target the right root spiritualy and get us men set free

Gary
Miki
Thank you both...
Miki
Gary...The Holy Spirit does bring this quality. I pray men will allow themselves to experience the fullness of God in this regard. Thank you.
Roxygal
QUOTE(Miki @ Apr 15 2006, 07:13 AM)
QUOTE(c-los medrano @ Apr 14 2006, 03:41 PM)
i agree.
go ahead and "boo" me.

edited to say: did i just read that salvation may take up to 20 years?
hmmm not sure about that part. *scratches head*
[right][snapback]53802[/snapback][/right]


No...What he's saying is the true meaning of the word elder. For many it takes years of trial and error to reach this place. You don't just hand eldership to someone because they have a good testimony. They have to show themselves approved. Some sanctification is required here and a knowledge of the word.

How willing are you men to put God first to narrow those years down from 20 to say 7 for instance? I've been the servant for a long time. I'd like to see men show themselves approved through servitude as well.

You need to humble yourselves and participate in small things thereby showing your children an example of a humble man. I believe every man, including the Pastor, should be involved once a week in some form of community service.

Now l'll let me show you the baby bitter root l try to dig out... sad.gif

You think you're so important because you worked all day and you want to come home and sit down. I've got news for you! So did we.

Community service is just as important as cell group once a week.

Nursing homes. Assisted Living.

Don't just leave it to the women. Old people need someone to read to them...and someone to wave a hand in front of their face to let them know they're still alive.

Do you know how many people need transportation? What an opportunity to witness. See...maybe this is why men think women are running the show. You know what? God will use and exalt those who say yes.

Each community has a different responsibility. Look around yours to see what God's needs are. Because when you do it to one of the least of these you do it to him.

Then Sunday morning when worship begins you can raise your hands in truth because you've honored him during the week by putting the needs and desires of HIS heart first! Amen..
[right][snapback]54012[/snapback][/right]



Wow Miki! Excellent advice for everyone!!!

Most people... including myself, are so busy in their own lives that we tend to forget what we are really here for. We need to step out of our comfort zones and spread the Good News whereever we can.

You're right... look around your community... Ask God to place these people in our paths so that we may have that opportunity to minister to them.

I believe our older citizens have been swept aside. If you've never been to a nursing home, you'll be in for a huge awakening. It's a horrible existance for most. Start somewhere... anywhere... Men and women alike!!! We're all apart of the body... Team Christ!!! rolleyes.gif

Blessings to all!
Love you Miki!!
Lisa
RosielovesJesus
I'm anxious to see what you are working on.
But I will be patient.
God bless,
from rosie
jhamner
Miki... the Spirit has given you wisdom.

There is NOTHING unmanly about showing emotion. And it takes a real man to serve.

But our society is trying to shove lies down the throats of young and old men alike telling them that feeling hurt, showing any emotion, and admitting you need help is somehow wrong. My heart really goes out to men... I can't imagine how frustrating that must be.

onetiggerroo
What did Jesus do?

HE showed us HIS emotions.

Here is but one example....

Jesus wept. (John 11:35).

He also showed us HE was a MAN of GOD, and the SON OF GOD....

Didn't HE die to save us from our sin?

Didn't HE conquor the grave?

Is HE seated at the right hand of the FATHER in Heavenly places.

HE did what HE said HE would do....and HE will come again.

So, is it manly for a man to show emotions? Just follow the example of JESUS! wub.gif
NoFool
Personally, I think the current political climate in the most "advanced" Western nations is feminizing men more than any church.
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