The fourth commandment is Exodus 20:8-11 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed he Sabbath day and made it holy."

What does this mean to you. I know this is one commandment I myself haven't kept. What are the thoughts of this forum's members.

I think the sabbath is a gift from God. Do we accept that gift? I have to admit that I don't always accept his gift of rest but I try and I am learning to give it a rest.

But its a command. It says on that day no one shall do any work. It doesn't say, you have the option of not working. It says no one. not yourself or your kids or slaves or even animals. I think this is a commandment we haven't kept and try to justify it. I started feeling really strongly about this yesterday for some reason.

What makes breaking the 4th commandment any different that breaking any other one.

I'm not saying it's ok to break any commandment, I'm just stating the obvious, I'm a sinner. "No one is without sin, not even one..." The point I was trying to make is that God gave us the commandment for our benefit, not for his, he doesn't need anything.

Mark 2

27And he said to them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

easy there, i'm not trying to argue just ask opinions. But what I am saying is that, we are to put sin behind us. We are not to live in constant sin. And to ingnore a command because it conflicts with jobs ect.... would have to be like lying because it makes the situation better. Right? Is this not something serious that should be address to all christians.
I don't think we can just say we're sinners its ok. Cause we are suppose to not be. Or try our hardest, and to willingly each weak the Sabbath would be like lying, or lusting(adultery) and saying well I'm human i'm gonna sin. Asking your opinion.

you need to remember that you are in a new coveant and the old no longer applys plus we are able to make any day the sabbath and keep it if we want to
Gary

So the commandment don't count anymore? or just the ones we don't like? so I can kill or steal? I understand the new covenant, but it doesn't replace the ethics of God with are his commandments.

End time do you want to owe God a debt? Other than your life?

Do you want to be judged by the law?

Rom 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


We live in the sabath, when we live in Christ. We are in Gods rest always.


PRAISE GOD!

its not a case of like or disslike its about understanding that those who enter into the new covenant have a compleatly diferant standing its a whole new and diferant ball game so to speak

I'm not talking about works, I'm talking about following the commandments. All I want is to know why this one commandment(the 4th, keep the sabbath holy) doesn't still stand with the others that do? God doesn't need rest but still rested on the seventh and made it holy.

and of course I don't want to owe God anything else I already owe him more than I'm capable of repaying now.

Its just something untill I get the right answer I'll feel guilty about. ya know. I mean its right there in the ten commandments

Bless your heart end-time, you are not seeing what is being said, we are in the sabath, we keep the sabath when we believe in Christ. The law is works.

Don't you think that the ten commandments are the infrastructure of the Mosaic law? (Which law was fulfilled in Christ)

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Laws we now keep...

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 3:27 Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Jam 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all. Jam 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. Jam 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

The beat has been incessant for two millenia...if we fail to keep one sabbath or any one of the 616 laws we are guilty of all.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]: Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ. When we are of Christ, we do as He did..he "worked" on the Sabbath. The religionists condemned Him for it. But He said, Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day. Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Jesus is our sabbath, or jubilee, our everything. In Him we find sabbath rest. EVERY DAY.

I don't know how much more plain it can be....

YEah well that makes since. I know of the new covenant, but what I was saying is we still live according to the ten commandment for our morals of living. But he abolished the sabbath, because its not a moral ethical law its a traditional law?


i wanted more evidence from yall cause thats been bothering me since yesterday for some reason

Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Do this and be free. (From rule keeping)

The "force of love" shall be predominant in all of your words and actions as you go forth to minister to My people; and as My love is outpoured through you , and as My people are ministered to, that love will draw those who truly love Me near to Me and "repel" (offend) - in some way - those whose hearts are not yet wholly given. Take no thought for what anyone "thinks" at any time. For as you go forth - adhering only to Me [and hearing only the voice of My Spirit] as I direct you moment to moment into the fulness of ministry - those of My children whose hearts are towards Me shall surely be "set free" from all hindrances and unholy attachments, to enter into a deeper revelation of My Glory and My Love and My Faith! (JTL)

The "two words" I have in front of me these days are these, "set free." There is a lot of bondage encasements in this place. Like those cement forms lowered into a grave to hold a casket and keep it from imploding in fifty years.

Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

How few realize any real freedom. They jump from one form of bondage to another.

It is important to note also that He did not abolish the law, He fulfilled it, the law is still in place. It is a righteous law because it came from God.

Its not a matter of rule keeping, its a matter of obeying the King of Kings and I just want to do that to the best of all my abilities. That means finding out if that should still be kept holy in my eyes

Exodus 31:14 states that the Sabbath is only for the JEws. So was it never for us to keep holy anyways, unless we are jews. I have never really studied the Sabbath.

This is true and if you choose that route God will honour it. But you will miss the boat in so doing. Or rather, you will get full passage on the Titanic, without the life preserver of the blood of Christ.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

whosoever looks like it means more than just jews.


but also take what is being said in context, Jesus fulfilled the law, this is what we do and teach. what is our righteousness it is the righteousness of God.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.


Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Not keeping the sabbath holy would be breaking the least, would it not?

Yes, If one believed that the mesiah had not come the first time. Jesus is the sabath, He is God's rest. By believing in Jesus we keep the sabath.

show me again what scripture say He is the sabbath

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.


Heb 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Heb 3:2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.
Heb 3:3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
Heb 3:4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
Heb 3:5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
Heb 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
Heb 3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
Heb 3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
Heb 3:9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
Heb 3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
Heb 3:16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
Heb 3:17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
Heb 3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.


Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Heb 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

I always assumed that the 7th day was Sunday, but is it saturday? What type of calendar does it refer to? Most Calendars start the week off (day 1) with Sunday, and end on Saturday...But this was probably created well (very long time) after the fourth commandment ever came to be.

Im kind of worried that I'll have to work weekends for my summer job, this summer...its my first real job ever
They'd probably fire me if I said that I couldn't work on Sunday (or saturday?) because it's against the fourth commandment. Should I hope for the best or should I break the commandment for 2 months

Don't sweat it. The Lord knows you do what you gotta do. You just have to trust him, ALWAYS

A couple of things come to mind.

First,

In my understanding of the NT, Sunday is not called a "holy day," like the Sabbath, but it is the day that Christians assemble.

1Cor16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

There isn't any other "Holy Day" in the NT for us (me) to keep.

2 Jn 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

That verse is telling me that it is a sin to promote and bind anything religious that is not found in the doctrine of Christ (like Christmas, Palm Sunday or Easter being Christian Holy Days) upon others.

Rom 14:5,6 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Some people keep Sunday as the assembly day, some people don't. Some fast, some don't. Whatever the Christian does - he/she does it unto the Lord and does it with THANKS.

I often examine myself in this matter because Paul shows that one can conform in some areas:

1 Cor 9:19-23 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

... and in other areas one cannot conform:

2 Cor 6:14-16 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Second,

Jesus was asked what the greatest commandment was/is... and he said it is to love God and that the second is like it, to love your neighbor... that all the law and the prophets are in those two commandments.

I have always found it interesting that so many Christians want the 10 commandments posted in courtrooms, etc, I'd rather see these two.

Matthew 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

It's just so much harder and easier to live the law of Love than to live the Mosaic Law. It makes me examine/judge myself - instead of others.

Hope this gives you yet another look.

God bless you.

Dani


rtkiii66,
I love your scripture post showing He is the sabbath.

Dani

Words can not explain how much God loves us, and the care He has taken so not to loose one of us.

Dear End-Time Calling (and AndrewPower16...and by the way, welcome to the site!!!!)....

I think it's wonderful that you're wanting to seek the Lord and follow Him with all your heart!!!!!

I shared something on a thread that our brother Maz started called "The Acceptable Year of the Lord" (found under "what Do You Say" I believe....) that might be able to be a help for you. The reason I say that but don't type it out or the address it's at is 1) I have problems with arthritis and my hands are giving me a real "run for my money" this morning....and 2) I'm not as computer-saavy as some of the brothers and sisters here.

God bless you abundantly in Christ Jesus!!!!!!

All love in Him!!!!!
devorah

Hey no offense humble bob but breaking a commandment is breaking a commandment. God doesn't says its ok because he know our hearts. Thats makes it even more important to keep his commands. If this member feels he's going to have to break a commandment from God for 2 months, telling him don't sweat it doesn't seem the right answer. Andrew if you feel as I do that all the commandments are to still be kept do what your conscience tell you. Thats why Father gave it to us. Christ never took any of the commandments away but fullfilled them. Fullfilled doesn't mean did tha work now we don't have to.

And rtiii66 not one of those scriptures you gave me says Jesus became the seventh day that to be kept holy. He says come to him for rest.
Heb 3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
Like this one, nothing about the Sabbath. His rest is his Salvation. Being saved through him. This scripture was talking to about the jews in the desert for 40 years. About having a unbelieving and sinful heart.

No where in any scripture that yall have pointed out or that I can find did it say Christ became the Sabbath. The sabbath is a day kept holy as a demand by God the Father. Not one scripture in the entire bible thats been found says not to keep the sabbath holy. It does say salvation isn't through works ect..... or by keeping the sabbath holy, but its still a commandment. If we never steal or lie and keep the sabbath holy, ya sure we are still goin to hell without Jesus, but these are still command we are to keep. We are to turn from our old ways when we accept Christ as our King, we are to stop
1. putting other god before him
2. making idols in any form
3. misuse the Lords name
4. dismissing the Sabbath
5. dishouring our parents
6. murdering
7. commiting adultery
8. stealing
9. lying
10. coveting
And if we love all, that will simply prevent us from doing most of these things. The ten commandments.

Exodus 31:16 "The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as A LASTING COVENANT.

Exodus 31:14 "Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you.
" " 31:17 "It will be a sign between me and the Israelites FOREVER, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested."

We are grafted into the root, the jews. Not the other way around.

Someone gave me a link but I'm waiting on a response, to see if that person minds if I share it with yall.

We worry about the small things to often. We think we can work our way towards God's love when he's loved us first. Alway, always, always is someone saying God will frown on you if you don't follow this and do that. Nothing is impossible for the Lord when you have faith in him. He will remove every and all my sins and on the very last day make me as white as wool forever. The person that is me now will perish, I look forward to that while I will arise a new being in Christ in the here after. No longer shall the dregs of the flesh hang upon my spirit. No longer will my soul be troubled by my vainity. The Lord will set me straight as an arrow bent right, he will mend me like the broken wheel that I am. And my sorrows weighed down by my sins he will take, to remove my transgressions as far as the east is from the west.

I await eagerly for the day and not worry then if I have kept the sabbath. If I take a coveting spirit for things not my own I am made sore and repent each time, no matter how many times, for the Lord reminds me of his constant love for me and I love him in return.

The Lord does not leave a work unfinished, he is not cruel. Love is his perfect craft to shape the hearts of people for him. He works out the burrs and polishes out the tarnish. No finer silver or gold thing can do this on its own. He plies the hammer and the cloth, the fire and water to his work, and each piece is a labor of his love.

Then when he has made such a thing all the law is fullfilled and the Lord is pleased with that child he has called his own. Here is his signature he scribes in the heart of every person he has called:

Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

The LORD is good and his love endures forever; his faithfulness continues through all generations. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him. Know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

HB

You are trying to make this something that it is not. I am in no way trying to earn Fathers love through any works. We are commanded to live a certain way, to live according to the ways of Christ. The commandment are the ways of God. Having faith and trusting in God knowing that he will wash our sins away, does not give us the right to continue sin. IT IS A SIN TO NOT KEEP THE SABBATH HOLY. I am not trying to earn extra points or get a cookie or whatever. I am trying to obey the command he's given us. Love God with all your heart, would be loving his command and living them. Coming back every time with an orray of fancy words to explain how much God loves you, doesn't omit not living to the standard he has set. Christ and all of his apostles kept the Sabbath. Why shouldn't we. Are we speacil. Do we have something he didn't. He surley had the same love and rest from the father, but still kept his commandments. Saying love covers a mulitude of sin doesn't replace the commandments, but rather further explains what they mean and the deeper purpose for them. Keeping the Sabbath holy for God is a command just as don't lie or steal or murder ect..... It is not for our rest that we keep it holy, but as a rememberance of the seventh day Father rested upon making the earth. ITs a sign from Father so that we may know that he is lord who makes us holy. (exodus 31:13) SHOW ME OTHER WISE.
Other wise I've heard your points and they don't settle it for me. And please don't come back with put your faith in Jesus. I do that every waking day of my life. That is not what this is about. ITs about whether we are to still keep the sabbath holy. Cause Father says its a covenant forever. We're still in forever.

God bless your heart endtimes!!! I can see you are working very hard to keep God's commandment's. When we come into God's rest it does not mean it is a free pass to sin, God forbid! But I believe if you take what is being taught in context in Hebrews chapter 3 and 4 you will see it is talking about Jesus. This is a teaching that is settled in my heart and I am at peace with it, I have no desire to turn this into a debate and I praise God for your hungry heart. Peace to you endtimes.

http://a-voice.org/discern/loseroot.htm

Check this out. It remarks on things of interest to this topic.

And I am not trying to argue, but in love debate the significants of the commandments. Christ taught to reach the lost, to bring the law before them.

THe person who showed me this link left me with a quote. "One day we will stand before the commander who wrote the commandments"

For it was said without the law I would have not known what sin is. Thats new testiment

Good subject folks.

Forgive me, I haven't read all the points made in the discussion, but I heard them made so many times before. I just thought I'd toss out my two cents worth.

God Himself kept the Sabbath during creation. The Jews were commanded to keep it and we will all keep it in heaven, even after all sin is removed. God kept it becuase He is not above His law. For those who say they don't have to, are in my opinion saying they're above the law even though God Himself is not above it. This in my opinion is very very serious.

Some say the law is fulfilled by Jesus therefore nullifed and made void even though He expressly said this is not so. So, tell that to the cop when you run stop sign and he pulls you over. "The guy in front of me stopped, so the law's been fulfilled and I don't have to." Jesus fulfilled all the requirements of the law so we could live. If He were a sinner also, He'd have been under the same death penaltly we are and a useless substitute.

Some say we're under a new covenant and the "old one" is dead. Ok then, God messed up. When He made the law, He forgot He was sending His Son later to die in our place in order to satisify the penalty of breaking the law.

Actually, if you believe the old and new covenants are opposate teachings, then the law can be set aside and made void at any time. So, God messed up again because He didn't need to sacrifice His Son for us. The law requires the blood of those who break it, period. This is imutable because God had to give-up His perfect, sinless Son as a substitute for us to SATISFY THE REQUIREMENT of the law. If the law can be made void at any time, this would not have been necessary. So, either the law is imutable and remains till heaven and earth pass away, or God made a mistake.

So, when we say the law is dead and void and old and set aside, we say that the sacrifice of the Lamb of God, the Messiah was unnecessary. I think this is kinda serious also, in my opinion.

Oh yeah, I forgot.

There's some who suggest that obeying the law is a "work" and we're not saved by works.

OK, so breaking the law is sin, because the bible is perfectly clear on this. So if obeying the law, which is avoiding sin is a "work" and a waste of time, the only thing left for us to do is sin as much as possible. I'll bet Satan would stand-up and cheer for that argument!

The Messiah was just having a bad day when He said "Go and sin no more".

The Messiah Himself obeyed the law completely, so He was wasting His time with works??

So not doing work on the Sabbath is a "work" and a waste of time? If you're saying we can't be saved by obeying God, you're right, because we've disobeyed in the past and even one time, it's the death penalty.

So why did He send Jeshua again? So we can sin freely? You can't really be serious are you? Sin and be saved? Do you think God and His Son want you to obey the laws of love or disobey?

It's really that simple. If you suggest that disobedience is what they want, then please forgive me but that doesn't make sense. Even a kid knows his parents expect obedience. If you suggest it's best to break the law, then maybe you're just unwilling to obey and looking for justification? I don't know, just asking a question here...

Oh, that's right, one more thing.

If you look at the 10 commandments and ask an atheist about them, they'll agree with nine of them.

They will say it makes perfect sense not to kill or even covet! They'll be ok with not making statues too.

They have no Gods period, so they're fine with not having any before Yahweh.

The only one they'd have trouble with is the Sabbath, becuase there isn't an atheist reason to obey it.

So, how are we different than atheists again? If you obey 9 of ten, you're just the same as an atheist from an obedience standpoint. If you obey the same way, will your fate be the same perhaps?

I wonder how things will work-out in the end for the atheists...

Why limit it to just the 4th commandment ...

Is it time to reinstitute circumcision...

We should be keeping all the commands in the Old Testament. No more shrimp and lobster and ham! Oh. Wait a minute. Jesus said that it doesn't matter what goes into your mouth, what matters is what comes out. Whoa! Did God, who wrote Leviticus, just wipe out the whole book of Leviticus? No wonder the Pharisees hated Jesus.

Being Christian means something totally different to a Gentile, than it does to a Christian who used to be Jewish - number one there will be a deeper Jewish understanding of the Jewish ways of life that Jesus put himself into.

Galations! What say you about Galations? Paul and Peter really had it out!

Why dismiss what Jesus said, Love God, Love your neighbor... "On these two commandments hang all the law". Why do you want to add commandment # 4 to what Jesus has said?

When Jesus said "It is finished" (Jn 19:30) what exactly did that mean?

Dani

I was just reading Galatians last night--highly recommended reading!

...you keep the Sabbath everyday when you behold Christ within you everyday.

Indeed it would be great to make every day the Sabbath.

I hope to someday, but right now I'm not weathly enough to quit my job. Even then, in order to make every day the Sabbath, I wouldn't be able to do my laundry even or mow my lawn ever again.

If I pay somebody else to do my laundry, I'm causing them to work on the Sabbath and I can't do that. I can't cause anyone to sin.

So you see, there will always be some sort of work for everyone, so we can't make every day the Sabbath or no work will ever get done. Even in the garden of Eden there was work to tend the garden wasn't there?

Even in the desert, the Israelites who gathered manna didn't gather it on the Sabbath.

Even in heaven there will be a sabbath.

On circumcision, was that written in stone? You can decide that because the animal sacrifice in the temple was finished by the Messiah, that any and all law can be tossed out. You can decide which ones you like and which one's you don't, because you have free will.

You can decide for yourself if circumsicion has meaning still or not. If it's for the children of Abraham or for everyone. The Sabbath of the Lord means something different than a sign between God and the Jews in my opinion anyway.

If the new covenant is the law written on your hearts, what law?

I agree Ed14. We were NEVER commanded by JEsus to stop keeping the laws he fullfilled them. It is time to return to the way God wanted us to live than how the mostly spiritually dead churches teach today. "Be happy, don't worry about anything, do what you want because God knows your heart and knows you want to follow his command its just not easy" And if Jesus became the Sabbath, PLEASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSE show me a scripture in the entire bible that says Jesus became the Sabbath. Yes we can come unto his rest, but that in no way states that his "rest" is the same as keeping the Sabbath holy. Show me! I just say this because those whom say differently have no biblical evidence that we are not to keep the sabbath holy. As a matter of fact it says its a covenant Forever.

May the Lord bless you because you seek earnestly.

Luke 6:5
And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

I hope this helps

Yes indeed It provides biblical truth that Christ is Lord of the Sabbath, not the Sabbath. He himself kept the Sabbath holy.

I am just picking one of your post's to put a response to. Who are you refering to. I think what you are saying is missing the point of the sabbath and what it actually is. If we want to get to the point, then we must work six days before we are to rest, so if we do not work six days are we breaking the sabbath by resting when we should not be. I believe it is very serious when we live by the letter of the law without the Spirit.

Again you are missing the point of what the sabbath is, they have trouble with the sabbath because they do not believe in Jesus, Just as the pharisee's did when He walked the earth and they put Him to death. Read hebrews three and four, Jesus is the sabbath, He is Gods rest. When we believe in Christ we keep the sabbath. The point that is being missed here is the sabbath is not a day of the week, it is God's rest. We are commanded to enter God's rest, not to rest on a certain day of the week.

HB God bless you!! Amen!!!

Ed I am sorry but you are getting way off track here.

Okay, my last at bat. My first post I tried to share that you can keep the Sabbath but you have to settle it in your own mind and not force it on others. The second post was really that Gentiles do not need to convert to Judaism to become Christian. This third is probably my last post in this subject - I’m going to try to take on the Decalogue OT 4th commandment viewpoint. Anytime I get into the OT - it’s the harder approach.

The 10 commandments are indeed an expression of the eternal moral nature of our Father. They govern all humans because God created us. We are required to keep God’s laws. The 10 Commands were never intended to be used to justify yourself before God. Hence Jesus and Paul going against all the legalism of their time. The commands were specifically directed to Israel! Though the moral code is written into the hearts of both the saved and unsaved.

The 10 commandments are the basis of all our legal codes and government. It is our duty to God and to our neighbors. However, you will not be saved by keeping the Law. You are saved by grace through faith.

The nation of Israel, alone, was recipient of the Law (Ex 20:2). Israel was supposed to be “a kingdom of priests and an holy nation” (Ex 19:5-6). The priesthood and all those animals that were sacrificed were part of the Mosaic system to show Israel they were saved by grace through faith. The Law was their school master. Offering grace through faith is God’s only method of dealing with us - to bring us back into fellowship with Him. The Law was given to show Israel that everyone is a sinner. Because we are fallen, we have the natural tendency to sin.

The New Testament tells me -
The Law is not Grace (Rom 10:5, Gal 3:10, Heb 10:28).
The Law is holy, righteous good and spiritual (Rom 7:12, 14).
The Law declares and proves all creatures guilty (Rom 3:19).
The Law justifies no one (Rom 3:19).
The Law cannot impart righteousness or life (Gal 3:21).
The Law causes offenses to flourish (Rom 5:20, 7:7-13, 1Cor 15:56).
The Law served as an instructor until Jesus appeared (Gal 3:24).
To the believer the Law absolutely does not save anyone (Gal 2:21).
A believer does not live under the Law (Rom 6:14, 8:4)
Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
The believer stands and grows in grace (Rom 5:2, 2Pet 3:18).

The 4th commandment ….

“Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.”

It is an exclusively unique commandment. A command from the very beginning. Keep in mind Adam and Eve had not fallen into sin yet!
Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.


God’s creative rest was broken that day that man fell into sin. God immediately began working the redemption.
Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Genesis 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
John 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.


Men did attempt to observe the Sabbath - from Adam to Moses but it was without divine sanction! Since then, this commandment was never imposed on any nation or people except (and until) Israel.

No where is keeping the Sabbath ever made enforceable upon a Christian in this age of grace.

The opposite is true:

Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Galatians 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


The Abrahamic covenant had it’s token in circumcision.
The Mosaic covenant - the keeping of the Sabbath. This was a distinctive mark of a chosen nation. It looks back and memorializes God’s creation rest. It looks forward to Israel’s Messianic future when God’s creation rest will be restored. (Isa 11:10-16, 60:1-22, Acts 1:6; Rom 11:26-36)


THE SABBATH NOW IS TEMPORARILY INACTIVE , SUSPENDED, NON OPERATIONAL.

Hosea 2:11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.


It will be reestablished when God has completed His present purpose in the church.

Deuteronomy 30:5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.
Deuteronomy 30:8 And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.

Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Ezekiel 46:1 Thus saith the Lord GOD; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon it shall be opened.

The restoration of the Sabbath will restore Israel’s ministry to the nations as Christ rules in the millennial kingdom (Mt 24:20, Rev 19:11-21)… and into eternity when Jesus delivers the kingdom to his Father, that God may be “all in all”.

1 Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1 Corinthians 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1 Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1 Corinthians 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

THEN God’s creation rest will be restored (by Israel, which was set apart from all other nations by the mark of the Sabbath observance).

MEANWHILE

John 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

God the Father worketh on the Sabbath, Jesus works on the Sabbath … and I celebrate the Lord’s Day in honor of Christ’s resurrection.

My 3rd attempt (4 hours in the writing) at answering your question is done. Perhaps I have struck out. Regardless…

May God bless you in your quest.

Dani