I place this in Contoversial Issues becaue this topic can get quite heated with some. Please remember when responding that we are GODS children and brothers and sisters in the LORD. No yelling!
This is an issue that came up in my family and I want to know what your thoughts are on it. If someone is declared "brain dead" and they are hooked up to machines, do you think it is scriptually correct to turn the machines off and let the body die? Now remember there have been cases where the patient was said to be brain dead and yet woke up and had no lasting affects. However there have also been others that have had their bodies kept alive by machines for years and never improve. I am looking for scriptures that can help us understand this hugh dilemma that some families are faced with. Even through prayer this can be a very difficult decision to make. Thankyou for any help.

Yes, the decision can be heart wrenching. My father was on a breathing apparatus, and we could not get it removed, until all his organs shut down. This is one that takes lots of prayers; to answer.

I would imagine the decision would be even more difficult if the person was not saved

Even with all the machines the decision is still in God's hands. If they are only keeping a body of flesh going the spirit is already gone! The person that is loved is not present. It really is not much different from having a potted plant and taking care of it. The only way that the spirit can come back to that body is if God wills it! I also know that there have been times that God did will it. For those who have the heart to understand, they can easily bow to the desires of those who are holding on to the unreal fact that the one they love is still present. I realize the fact that I keep pointing out Proverbs 3:5-6, but the truth of all of Proverbs 3:1-12 is valuable for the Christian. But "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your paths. That is the life boat on many troubled seas!
j

Good word justaservant!
"Trust in the Lord with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your paths.
This involved my dad. We believed what the doctors told us concerning the brain being dead. i have made peace with the issue that GOD is in charge and if the outcome was to be different then the LORD would have stepped in. I trust HIM completely. I pray that my dad was saved but do to his particular religious bringing up, it leaves me wondering. I have often wondered what others would do if faced with this decision, especially Christians.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Sorry, I just had to get that out of the way.


I believe it is merciful to take someone who may be in horrible pain and will continue to be the rest of their lives, always at the point of death, off of a machine. Also, yes, being brain dead, I would say that it would be merciful to take someone off of a machine. My Mother had the option with my Grandmother before she died to put her on a machine to "extend" her life (she died of cancer in 1996), but it would not have been a life. It would have been utter, constant pain. The doctor confirmed this as well. Fortunately, she was a Christian, but it was indeed a horrible decision to make for my mother, but a merciful and not selfish one. She didn't hook her up to a machine just to keep her around as long as she could. God has mercy here, I truly do believe. I agreed with my mother's decision and I would have done the exact same thing. In fact, I'm going to be making out a Living Will for myself, saying that I NEVER want to be hooked up to ANY kind of machine

I am sorry that you had to go through this. How I feel the pain in your heart. But we are to trust GOD in all things. All things work to HIS glory. I will be praying for you and your family.

Thankyou onetiggerroo. My dad passed away in 1996. So it has been a few years but this question has been in my mind since then. I was with my dad when he died. No one else wanted to stay. They said he was already dead and it didn't matter. It just didn't seem right to me to leave him there with no family around when his body stopped breathing. The nurses reasurred me that he would die with no pain as they would give him morphine to ease things along. They said it would take a couple of hours but my dads body went on for 10 hours before he passed on. I guess that is why i have had this question in my mind as to what other Christians think about making the decision to turn the machines off. thankyou for your prayers

My best friend said that her grandmother was on machines for about a week before the family decided to pull the plug. When they did... she sat up in bed and said, "I've been gone for a week... let me go." God allowed it to let the family know she had already passed on.
I believe you are right.

Hello jhammer,
I fully appreciated what you had to say,

This was a truth that God allowed me to see while I was still a child. An uncle that I loved dearly died and our family went to see him. This was still when they had the viewing in the home. I went in and when I say the body of my uncle, it came to me just as clearly as if someone had spoke! This is not my uncle, he is gone, this is only where he used to live.! I have never forgotten that time and it has stood me well in my ministy!
j

Thankyou jhamner and justaservant. What an amazing story your friend shared with you jhamner. justaservant, i feel the same way. That is not our loved ones just the body they lived in. Let meask everyone another question though. If the brain is dead but the body continues to function after removing the machines do you believe the soul, spirit has already left or leaves when the breathing stops as the heart stops?

I'm holding onto that word Justaservant.
You have blessed me beyond words tonight.

my mother was told that she should not to expect to survive her breast cancer in the early 60's.....i was maybe 6-7 years old. the oldest of three girls.
she is now 73 years old, having survivied THREE re-currences....

My dadddy? ...
he suffered a heart attack ....in the mid-80's....while in for a "minor"
surgery to remove a mole from his face....

the prognosis was--(he was in coma)---that he may never wake up...
and if he did he may be a "vegetable".....needing continual care...


but he did wake up....slowly at first...not able to speak....
but able to write upon a tablet.


he recovered fullly.


and i had the joy of 10 more years....with him ...alive.


the last attack was sudden, and final,,and quick...
although he was in coma still for 12 hours ....
allowing us all to be there.
by his side...
when he died.

his arms rose up....
at the moment the monitors went flat....


we cried.



i say..........


do ALL that is in you ability to do....
to save the life of a loved one....


you have really no control.
God, our Father, calls those to himself in his own time.


but i would and will do all that is possible to help.


.........and i think of Terri Shiavo.


love,
bz

This is to my mind an example of what God wanted us to avoid when He commanded Adam & Eve not to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Now we have to wrestle moral dilemnas which men's minds are not consrtructed to have to answer. That incumbency has been amplified as knowlege has increased to a point where men are trying to make decisions which only God can make in His perfect wisdom and justice.

Having said that, I would lay my cards on the table as respecting this issue in the arena of remembering that not too many years ago it would not have been possible to keep someone alive by the use of artificial life support systems. So in so doing, we are artificially maintaing a life which could not be supported in the natural ability. Therefore it is best for that person to accept the reality of their situation and allow their spirit to go back to God who gave it....

I would definitly instruct the doctors to write DNR (Do Not Ressucitate) on my medical card at the foot of that hospital bed....

Ecc 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Hi His Love abides,
Your questions concerning what happens at death,

The spirit is what has communication with God. The soul is our thinking, emotions, and all that makes us, us. If the brain is gone and all that is keeping the body going is machines, both the soul and the spirit are already gone. Sorting out the soul and the spirit is another question but they are separate. This verse explains, Heb. 4:12
This says that the Word of God can sort the difference between what is us, soul, and what is in tune with God, spirit.
This may be more than you asked, but I trust that it makes things clearer!
j

Thank you for sharing this. I had goosebumps.
What a testimony of your love!

I wasn't sure where to post this, and saw this thread about unplug the machines or not...so here it goes.

I was watching a video on my computer tonight, and paused it, got up to go to the washroom (i won't go into any detail ) and listened.

What I heard was the rain, hitting the roof outside the bathroom window. I hadn't noticed it because I had been covered by technology (my headphones) which caused me to be (the words i used) "Blinded from nature. Deafened from nature." But when I left the "machines" behind, I was reunited with nature, as I could hear the rain.

However when I finished in the bathroom, I turned off the light and was overcome by darkness (it's midnight you see...) I quietly rushed to my room, where my light was turned on (I have a tiny fear of the dark). I realized then that technology protects us, both from things that can hurt us and from things that cannot (the darkness).

As for this topic of unplug/keep plugged in...I am unsure. Sometimes we must let nature (God) decide.

Thankyou everyone for your response. They have all been heartfelt and sincere. Your sharing has just reaffirmed in me what I already believed and that is that GOD is always in charge. If it is our time to go home then there is nothing anyone or any machine can do to stop that from happening. So indeed this is a personal decision that can only be made after a time spent in prayer. We must trust the Lord and praise HIM in all things.


Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on Thee: because he trusteth in Thee. Trust ye in the LORD for ever...." Isaiah 26:3

"Whenever I am afraid, I will trust in You.
In God... I have put my trust;
I will not fear. What can flesh do to me?" Psalm 56:3

You are in my prayers. I am so sorry that you had to go through this. It sounds like that you have peace and thats what counts. I will be praying for you through this difficult time.

Your Friend In Christ,
Valerie

Messiahiscoming

Valerie, Thankyou so much for your kind thoughts and prayers. You are a dear sister in Christ.