This can be a touchy subject, but I'm curious as to what people (as Christians) here, think about this.


In other words, if a legitimate, saved, Christian, for example, goes through a heavy bout of depression, or let's say a horrible chain of events, and takes their own life, are they still going to heaven?

Personally, I do not think so. This is still self-murder is it not? I guess this would also go back to the, "Once saved, always saved" doctrine. God is indeed merciful, BUT......

Not saying this is the easy way out, because it's not, BUT, if every Christian were guaranteed to get to heaven this way and knew for sure, don't you think many would be saying, "I'm outta this world, the sooner I'm in heaven with Jesus, the better". Of course, this would be for all the wrong reasons, but think about it. Would this be the unforgivable sin? The unforgivable sin would be the rejecting of Jesus, which would blaspheme the Holy Spirit, would it not? Interesting to ponder.


What are your thoughts?

the muslims what do they beleive?

I imagine if this site was called "muslim-forum.net", I would be diligently seeking that answer. I'm more concerned with looking at the subject through the eyes of a true perspective (Christianity), not a false one. (Islam)

I just have to ask this question: Jack you said that all sins are forgiven, but we have to ask for that forgiveness and repent and turn from that sin...

If we committed suicide we are dead and can't ask for the forgivenss, how then can we be forgiven?

propergander the slang gander means to look how propergander is used as a skillful mean to get a mesage across it may be a skillfuly wovern mix of truth and lies a distortion now there could be the tinyest gem of truth hidden with in

can you add multiply devide and subtract on this one just on your own

I agree that lies can be thrown in with truth in a propaganda-like manner.

...and yes, it is good to have knowledge of things to combat other things, but my point was, in this instance, that it really doesn't matter to me what he muslim perspective is on this (from the koran). or a budhist one or a hindu one, because those are false (in my eyes as a Christian and someone who believes Jesus is who He says He is).

I didn't mean to be sharp in my previous post. I'm just trying to look at this specific question from the viewpoint of Jesus. You're certainly welcome to bring any insight that you want. I just believe that it really doesn't matter what anything other than the Bible says on this issue (as I believe most things to this effect).

Hey Jack you ask me a question and answer it for me....LOL....

But yes, no one can confess all their sin because I for one cannot remember all the sinning that I used to do...Am I without sin today? No, because we all sin. The Lord looks into my heart and knows what is in there. If murder is in my heart and I act upon that, than I am a murderer and was not truly saved....If Christ is in my heart, I have no desire to commit such an act such as murder.....

But what I mean is, suicide is murdering yourself. It is not different than killing someone else...A life is taken no matter who takes it....

This is rhetorical really, but if you killed yourself, there would be no repentance and you would not be able to be absolved from your sin because you're already dead. I know, it sounds strange... just a thought from a humble one. I would like to know that I know that I know I'd be saved before I could even fathom doing such a thing. To not KNOW would stop me from doing it.

Well, hmmmmmmm.

This is a highly debated topic. BUT... I must throw this out there:

Isn't Christ outside of time? On the cross, Christ (I believe) saw back in time and forward in time and forgave it all. So, weren't we saved from the "foundations of the earth?" And if we were truly saved, doesn't that mean saved once and for all?

I do agree with you Pam that Christ gives us a new heart and a new thirst for righteousness. But- do we fall? Yes. I do. Oh man. I may not WANT to be a liar- but I find myself lieing. The GOOD THAT I WOULD DO I DON'T.....

So I am not sure we can be adament about whether a suicide is doomed to hell.

But bottom line... NOT SURE.

A close personal friend committed suicide. She came to the Lord just before that.

It's a long sorry story but l don't for one single instant believe she is unsaved.

Jesus died for all the sins we haven't yet committed. Which is the biggest one?

What if you died of a heart attack after you whip lashed your wife and broke her heart. You didn't get a chance to repent....

It's just not logical....

I had a dream about her some time after that...I believe it was a confirmation that she is with the Lord. Take heart!!!

Miki,

Sorry to hear about your friend. A guy I knew growing up had commited suicide...very sad. My brother's best friend and he definitely had some mental problems. The guy had everything going for him, but when his business wasn't quite doing as he expected...well he went out into the garage, shut the doors and turned on his exhaust. I don't believe he was ever a Christian....I'm not sure if he was ever told about Christ and being 'born again'. It still bothers me to this day, and I know it bothers my brother even more.

Where are the verses that would give someone comfort for his salvation?

People think many Christians are shallow-minded to think this way....

Jack had stated this referring to the muslims:



So Jack, all the muslims are predestined to go to hell?








This is a very good topic and I'm glad we are discussing it.

We don't even know all the sins we commit so how can we repent.

And how about the sin of omission?

When you're saved your saved. We'll give an account of all those things in heaven...even suicide.

It's all over the Bible.

Yes Jack we know that YOU do not make all the rules.

Thing is though...........PRE-DESTINATION!!! Christians say...ah well you are going to go to hell because you are a.....MUSLIM WHO IS PRE-DESTINED TO GO THERE....

So, can investigate this a little further...i.e...please allow me to play devil's advocate here.

So let's say I have several other people that I work with of all different faiths.....and
they meet a Christian who thinks they will go to hell if they don't believe in Christ.

My question is.........how do we approach people like this of other faiths?

I mean what if they never heard of Christ and what HE did for us on the CROSS?

Anyone feel free to join in...this is a good discussion!!



EDITING IN.....I see this as an entirely NEW DISCUSSION which shouldn't be under this thread....shall we start a new one?

"What passages would you use to either prove or disprove that Christians who commit suicide are able to still be saved?"

The subject of suicide, like that of abortion and other important issues, is not addressed in the scriptures, so a person’s willful self-destruction must be judged by principles given to guide our conduct.

It is thought traditionally that a person seals his or her eternal doom by suicide. Few comforting words have been offered to relieve the shock of family and friends. With resigned quietness we have left them in unrelieved grief. We would like to offer hope, but that desire must not allow us to create false hope. Is there any real hope?

When the subject is approached, it is said generally that the person who kills self dies in violation of "Thou shalt not kill," and has no chance to repent and ask for forgiveness, hence, is beyond redemption. But suicide is not necessarily a violation of "Thou shalt not kill.". That commandment had to do with murder, not manslaughter. It is not the taking of life that is sin, but it is the motivation for killing. Murder comes from ill-will, hatred, jealousy, and such evil thoughts. John explains, "Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer…" (1 John 3:15).

There are several instances of justified killing (manslaughter) in the Scriptures listed in the very law that contained the Ten Commandments (consider Exo. 21:12; 22:2; Lev. 24:16; 20:13; Exo. 21:15, 17; Num. 35; Deut.20 – instructions for battle where killing was commanded.) Manslaughter could be honorable and expedient when serving the cause of justice rather than being expressions of personal hatred, rage, jealousy, or vengeance. The higher motive outweighs the general restriction.

Jesus and other martyrs chose to die for good cause. Although they did not perform the acts of self-destruction, they willingly put themselves in the situation where it would happen. Samson willingly brought his own death for the cause of his people and he is listed as a hero of faith (Heb. 11:32f). Some person takes their own lives to spare their loved ones the extended emotional and financial burden of caring for them. Whether they are justifiable or not, we must recognize such cases as acts of selfishness.

In his grace and mercy, God does not demand the impossible of us. He does not demand sanity of the mentally ill. Even under the rigid code of Law through Moses, Jesus emphasized that the showing of mercy was of greater import-ance than keeping laws that would prevent it. His numerous "Sabbath violations" made that clear (See Matt. 12:1f; 12:9f; Lk. 14:1f; 13:10f; etc.). Law offers no mercy or grace. "Mercy triumphs over judgment" (James 2:13). God alone is able to judge, and he will judge mercifully those who seek his mercy.

Back to the question. No, those Christians who commit suicide are not "able to still be saved." No one is able. "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God…" (Eph. 2:8). None of us are able to be saved but we must depend on God’s gift. To any of us who might think we can keep a supposed code of law well enough to be saved, James would shout, "For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it" (James 2:10)! That includes all of us.

The man who kills himself has no chance for repentance and asking forgiveness. Neither does the person who dies in a moment of anger, pride, or jealousy. Would his state be better than that of the suicide? If you die of compulsive speeding, overeating, or smoking, what is your hope? If you fail in "one point" while someone else fails in another, who has better standing before God?

If we must be in a state of achieved righteousness the moment we die in order to enter into eternal life, no one will make it! None are "able" to achieve it – able to be saved. So accept the gift! Because of his atonement, we struggling sinners can be in fellowship with him who accepts our sins and accounts us as righteousness. His forgiveness is continuous as we stumble along in our relationship with him.

"If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not live according to the truth; but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:6-8).

Yes, there is hope for you and me both as we die in our own imperfection while being accounted perfect through his gift of righteousness. However, there is no assurance for one who dies in deliberate sin presuming upon the grace of God and using it as a license.

If a person is actually mentally ill I don't believe that he is automatically barred from Heaven. If they are not in control of their mental state how can they be held accountable? However if they are simply giving up that is a different story. Just my opinion.

"As you believe, so it shall be"

"Abraham believed in God and it was reckoned to him as righteousness"

I think the only requirement is that you believe in God. Everything else falls into place after that. If you believe in God, then you love your neighbor. If you love your neighbor than you love Christ.

There are those who call themselves christians and he will say, I never knew you. There are those who don't call themselves christians, who will be invited in because they did the will of the father and cared for Jesus. 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

The Sheep and the Goats
31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

Those who commit suicide are not following Christ. If you are not following Christ you are not saved. Anyone who tells you different will also be guilty of your blood. Committing suicide is slapping God in the face saying "it is final I will not do it your way". You have to be converted to a little Child of God to enter the kingdom.

Mt 18
3 and said, "Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 14
33 So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.

Matthew 10
38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me

Romans 8
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.



Charlie

Charlie...Think of how illogical that statement is....

Not saved if not following Christ??

That would then be all of us.

No man follows Christ completely. (Well except maybe Enoch.)

All I can say is that we do not know one's state of mind at the time of suicide.
God does, he knows the heart and mind. Only God knows if that person will be with Him in paradise. I am only a mere mortal, who just cannot say if that person is in heaven or not.

I know it is God that takes us when He wants us. I just don't know what the person's mind is like when they even think of suicide.

Perhaps at their last breath,they ask for forgiveness.
I simply don't know the answer.

I know I must not even think of taking my life. But what if there was
a medical condition that the person just lost it- God still knows the heart.

I am rambling.
I am just a servant trying to do the will of God.
I stumble!

That brings up a good point Rosie!

Wouldn't the Lord know if this person just wasn't in their "right mind" at the time? I don't know, but when I was going through a horrible case of post pardom depression with my second child... I felt so hopeless.. although I didn't get to the point of suicide, I can understand how my mind was not right. I can't see our compassionate Father giving up on me because I stumbled horribly had I gotten to that point.

It's horrible to even think of that time, but the Lord got me through it. I don't know, maybe that's why some people make it through depression and others don't. I guess we'll know the answers to these tough questions when we get to heaven.

Blessings Everyone!!
Love, Lisa

I've read a lot of "What if the person's mind wasn't right" at the time of suicide responses here and I do have to agree to a point about that.

By this I mean, as Rosie said, only God knows the heart and mind of that Christian......and we can only speculate as Christians. If sombody's mind as a Christian is not right as far as developing some kind of mental illness or being in horrible pain in some way, I would guess that mercy would be shown, BUT I don't know. My guess also would be that someone that claims to be a Christian and because things are looking bad for some weeks in their life, either in a financial way or something that can be fixed, and can be helped eventually with support, decides to blow their head off, would not go to heaven.

We've all been had to experience horrid times in our lives, be it financial or a close family member passing away or just a period of bad times, but none of us as Christians just said oh well, I can't take it, I'm just going to end it. Even in depression, with thoughts of suicide, none would or have gone through with it.

It's a tough call....which makes it God's call, yet I would never take the chance, even if there was a slight one, of going to hell by committing suicide. It's russian roulette with your soul.

Okay allow me to say this as only a thought to ponder.....

This is to add to what Shaun333 is saying....

Let's look at Judas I. He walked with Jesus and followed Jesus. He was even an Apostle.

Where I am going with this is what is in the man/woman's heart truly. No we can't judge it but the action of the person shows us what is in there. Was Judas truly a follower of Christ? I say no, because greed lived in his heart, not the love for Christ. He sold the Savior out for 30 pieces of silver. Yes, he did feel remorse but could not handle this and commited suicide. Did he go to heaven? I say no again because the word is clear.

Proverbs 27: 19 As water reflects a man's face so a man's heart reflects the man.

Heb 10:15-16 The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this: First he says: "This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.

If murder is a sin according to the 10 commandents what then does Hebrews 10: 26-27 mean: "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no scarifice for sin is left. 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgement and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God...

I have been to a funeral where the person who passed lived his life in the world and for the world? He didn't believe in God and had nothing to do with God. Did he go to heaven? No, for God knows him not, but what were everyone at the funeral saying? Oh, he is in a better place now, he is with God. I am so sorry to be so blunt but is it those scales we have to remove from our eyes to see the truth. No one ever wants to imagine a loved one, friend or associate die and go to hell. But the reality is, there is a hell and it is going to be full...............

This is just thought for ponder and my opinions so don't shoot the messenger....

In Catholicism (sp?), suicide is considered a mortal sin. But mortal sins can be forgiven...if you're alive to confess.

In my opinion, it is a bad thing when someone kills themselves. Sad really. My opinion on if they burn in the depths of hell or are let into heaven? I honestly don't know any more.

Either way, it isn't a good thing for anyone...when someone kills themselves.

(This is a sad topic, is there a happier one somewhere?)

Let me bring up another point about faith....Read in Dan.3 about Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. What happened in their case Jack.

In another thread you speak about having a great deal of faith. We don't know who was a saved and unsaved in the trade towers. We cannot put on the emotional bond just because a tragic event happened. Emotions are not what we are to be lead by. It is the Holy Spirit that leads and guides our steps.

It is not the popular answer to say: No they won't go to heaven because we cannot phathom the fact that hell is a very real thing and people actually go there.

People who jumped off the trade center and were Christians, I think that it's a given were not deciding to commit suicide. If they just sat there they would have been burned to death anyway. They, in their minds were not thinking directly about wanting to kill themselves. There would be mercy.

Satan only cheats you if you let him. Satan would never have a chance to cheat me regarding suicide, because God willing, I would never turn to it. It's a chance I would never take. It's my soul. I don't play games with my soul, PERIOD!

I see what you are saying jack through scripture, but again I stress, why doesn't every Christian kill themselves and get onto eternity with Jesus. Why not? Not that suicide is easy, but hey, one moment of pain and then you can live with Jesus. It's too easy in my view.


Here are some other biblical passages:

HEBREWS 3:12-14 "Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end"


MATTHEW 24:13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

ROMANS 11:22 "Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness,if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off."

2 TIMOTHY 2:12 "If we endure, we shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us."

I believe that passage above to mean both Christian and non, wouldn't you think so?


JOHN 15:1-6 "You are already clean (saved) because of the word which I have spoken to you. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned."

1 CORINTHIANS 9:27 Paul said, ". . . lest by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a cast away."

ROMANS 11:17-20,21,22 Paul speaking to a Gentile convert says, "...some of the branches were broken off, and you ... were grafted in....." "Do not be haughty but fear, for if God did not spare the natural branches He may not spare you either." "Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God; on those who fell severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off."

1 TIMOTHY 4:1 ". . . some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits"

EZEKIEL 33:13 "When I say to the righteous he will surely live (eternally), and he so trusts in his righteousness that he commits iniquity, none of his righteous deeds will be remembered; but in that same iniquity of his which he has committed he will die (the second death)."

This last one is very strong to me as evidence of once saved not always saved.

HEBREWS 10:26 "For if we sin (are sinning or continue to sin) willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth there remaineth no more sacrifice for sin."

Conclusion:Once saved, not always saved, in my view. Needless to say, I would never take the chance anyway.

Our battle isn't against flesh and blood.

A man brought his son to Jesus because an evil spirit (which had entered into the boy when he was a child) would make him jump into the fire and into the waters to destroy him (Mar.9:17-27).

This would be the sin of omission by some in the church who fail to bring complete deliverance. So who would be responsible? On who's hands the blood?

If we condemn the victim should we not also condemned ourselves for not intervening? Maybe...

And Jesus was tempted by the devil to commit suicide when he was in the wilderness for 40 days. But he didn't sin.

You just have to wonder if some how Jesus wanted us to read between the lines here...Oh how people suffer from this. It's a death that just keeps on giving.

It's almost like he's letting us know that those who where tempted and failed....

Well.... he's got us covered.

Oh come on you people who have lost a loved one this way. Have hope!!!!

Jesus endured and resisted the devil on our behalf. Give him Praise and Glory!!

But now Miki we are charged to resist the devil and he will flee.

If the devil in your grief, saddness, anger, wrath or any other thing can tempt you to take the your life then you have followed the devil schemes. The Lord expects you to do as He did, He resisted the devil and after a short time, the devil fled.

Pamela...This is true...but sometimes people fail...That's why Jesus came for us.

That is so true Shaun, we all experience some horrible things in this life and yes we must keep persevering. I would never consider suicide. God has given me life and it is His to take from this earth, when He is ready. When He is ready, I must be ready. I cannot take the life that He has given me.

However now my mind is good(some would question that ) I just don't know what it would be like if mental illness came on board. I pray that I would never think of taking my life. It is a precious gift from our Father.

My friends boyfriend commited suicide and this has scard her for life.
So the impact of suicide is left on many. This is not what God intended.

Yes we will all be held accountable for our actions. God knows...It's so horribly sad though...for one to take their own life, if they are in a normal state of mind, which even that in our times is being debated over and over...and again God is the judge...but it so horrible the pain and agony it leaves those who are left with being the victims of their loved ones whom took their own life...this is so sad and could haunt one for life. I don't think I could ever hurt another like that.
God keep my mind in tact too ...LOL there are sometimes I just want to scream and pull my hair out ...but I don't ever think I could do such a thing.
Rosie, we don't think you got anything to worry about...Stay close to Jesus, and pray pray pray that we can all be around to help one another in trials and errors. and so do I...

Wernotalone, you are a God send. You always have such a great message for all of us. Yes let us all stay in prayer. And oh another yes, yes I need my fellow brothers and sisters here.

Trust me Wernotalone, I have family members who think I am strange. Strange because I love my Lord sooooooooooooooooooooooo much.
I say oh well then let them think I am strange. Because I am never going to stop talking about Him or following Him.
Funny thing is, that when they have a problem they come to me. And I mean all of them. I can't solve their problems-I go to our Father and see what He says on the matter. They know I seek Him and it is good they know that. For now they are looking at things differently.

But when all goes well in their lives-they simply think I am strange.
I need Jesus in good times and in bad. For some reason that is hard
for some family members to understand. I pray that they will understand that
Jesus wants to be part of our lives. All of it!
Now when He is the centre of our lives.
What a life that is
God bless you.
we can scream and cry out Wernotalone, we can cry out to our Lord. He is always there for us. He will stop us from pulling out our hair. We can give the cares to Him. Oh why wouldn't everyone want to follow Him.

Wernotalone, it is great to be in the family of God together.
You gave me a lift to my day and I say thank you!

This poem by Frank Dempster Sherman, I send to you today.

It is my joy in life to find
At every turning of the road
The strong arm of a comrade kind
To help me onward with my load.

And since I have not gold to give,
And love alone must make amends,
One of my prayers is, while I live--
God make me worthy of my friends.

Wernotalone,
and I do too

Rosie,

I can see that you love our Lord with everything you've got!! I know that if I'm having a hard day to just come and look for your posts because you always say something to brighten things up.

I get the same thing in my family too... they laugh at me and think I'm goofy, but when it all falls apart.... yup, they come to me. Thanks for being such a bright light for me today!

Many blessings!!
Love, Lisa

From my own experience, if the life of a Christian is so bad, they feel sucide is the only way, they are being selfish not considering what God would have to say about it, they need to ask God for help. God will send emergency relief

JOB considered his situation,
and considered it better to not have been born.
he even wished for death.

Job was a man that was pleasing in God's eyes.
but the Adversary asked to put him to the test.
to "test him out"....


the situation became so bleak-- that he wished to die.
and asked that His Creator appoint a time to remember him.


JONAH, too, prayed to die. --see Jonah chapter 4.


it is never EASY to be a child of GOD in this world.


but never NEVER LOSE HOPE.



love to you all!!


NEVER GIVE UP AND DO NOT GIVE OUT IN YOUR FAITH>


it will all work out fine in the end. GOd loved the world so much,
that He gave his only begotten SON.
just believe in him.

For he is real.

love,

bz

Lisa, we are sisters in Christ. You are all my sisters and brothers.
Lisa, Our Lord is brightening our day. Oh that He can use us to
cheer another up. Let us give the glory to Him.

I do love Him and with every breath I have, I will keep proclaiming the love that He first gave to us. He loves us Lisa. He really does. He loves you so much and will never let you go.

I lay my wants on Jesus;
All fullness dwells in Him;
He healeth my diseases,
He doth my soul redeem;
I lay my griefs on Jesus,
My burdens and my cares;
He from them all releases,
He all my sorrows shares.

Stay as sweet as you are Lisa.
Your not goofy, you are a precious child of God.
And really I don't think goofy is a bad thing. I rather like it myself.
love ya,
from rosie

Jesus said there was only one unforgivable sin. That is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Suicide is not Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. So therefore i must believe that suicide is a forgivable sin. But i find it hard to believe that a true Christian would ever murder themselves.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

It happens.

Just like everybody else Christians do get sick.

Severe depression, a sickness, is the major cause of suicide.

Thanks Rosie!! Your poem made me want to sing... I can't right now because the baby is asleep in my lap! You know what? I really like being goofy too... makes for a interesting life for sure!!
Love you too!!
Lisa

GOD IS WITH US

When has the logic of man produced the righteousness of God? Yet your righteousness must be greater than those who only hear and do not do to even see the kingdom of God. The test by fire is coming where will you stand?

James 1
22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.


46 "But why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do the things which I say?
47 Whoever comes to Me, and hears My sayings and does them, I will show you whom he is like:
48 He is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently against that house, and could not shake it, for it was founded on the rock.
49 But he who heard and did nothing is like a man who built a house on the earth without a foundation, against which the stream beat vehemently; and immediately it fell. And the ruin of that house was great."

Matthew 7
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.




Charlie

Charlie says:

"When has the logic of man produced the righteousness of God"?


God gave us a mind to use. For all kinds of logic and reasoning...Numbers for one....Weighing scripture for two and for stretching our minds and exercising our consciences by rightly dividing the word. We aren't a mystic floating on a mat above the mountains. He wants us to think.

If we read his word there is such simple logic there. Children can understand it.

Come let us reason together...

Logic and reasoning are given early in the book of Isaiah (1:18), Jehovah here invites man to, as it were, sit down and think seriously with Him on matters of grave importance.

This is the verse that helped deliver me out of Astrology so you won't much win with me on this one.

Miki,

I agree with your ideas, but I believe that understanding is generally given by God in His own time. I have beaten my brains out over things and gotten nowhere. Then at some later time, sometimes years later the answer comes to me effortlessly and I am so amazed that I ever missed it in the first place.

sojourner

First I will say "sorry" I don't have time to read each of the posts here, but DO want to address the question at hand.

I totally believe if "Anyone is that mentally ill that they took their own life" through their faith and His love and grace "They still can be heaven bound". I have been on that prepice of debating "life over death" Yes, that is how "depressed" I was, joyfully I am still here, but I think "if I had done it"...I totally believe that He would have understood and forgiven me! Just IMHO, your sis, hannah

Short and sweet... I vote "No". I consider suicide to be an act of "high treason". It is saying "no, God, I don't want to stay on Earth anymore. So you have a job for me to do here? So what? I really don't give a rat's behind. Take Your Plan and shove it, because I'm gonna do it MY WAY!!"

What kind of heart does that sound like?

Clue: It says in the Book "no murderer hath the Truth in him." Is not suicide an act of self-murder?

When Job prayed to God to die, he was still putting it in God's hands, not his own.

My friend didn't have those thoughts at all. She had been tormented by a spirit of suicide for years and years. It spoke into her life and finally she took it after a botched deliverance session by a Pastor supposedly full of the Spirit of God. An old man who became weak to her beauty and vulnerabilities and of all things...
married her...
I was in another state hearing the unbelievable news that tore at my heart and there was nothing l could do but tip toe around in letters. I saw the writing on the wall. She couldn't handle being Pastors wife, came home, and before l could meet with her put a bullet to her head.

Let's seee....what's the word called rage mean...? l discovered a new definition.
I could even release it now but won't.

That poor mans error caused a domino effect with all who knew him and her.
I've never recover from it. But l believe she is with the Lord. I knew for sure she accepted him and until that man got his hands on her...

You can't trivialize peoples lives with a few short sentences and think you''ve got it wrapped up in a nut shell. Men and women of God who don't do the job of exhorting in times of need do more damage than than any eye but God sees.

Lift up those struggling with faith. Know how powerful the enemy can be when his client is weakened and vulnerable. Don't be afraid to step in. One word can change a life and one can end it. The war is one but battles are lost.

I know exactly how God wanted to use me in that situation and yet in my own life the enemy had me cuffs. Even though her life was lost her soul was not. And you can huff and puff all you want but the house won't blow down. Her salvation was set in stone!

Her precious daughter who came to the Lord indirectly through my witness as well, will stand in spite of the enemy in her life and will help light the fire of many for the Lord.

Talk to people. Encourage them when they can't get up. When their lives are swallowed up in drugs and failure. Encourage. Don't think you have to throw your hands up and walk away because they can't hear your presentation of the gospel..Don't worry about it. Just let God love the person through you. He knows you are incapable but he will work anyway.

Witness with tender loving care and make sure you're called into the deliverance ministry before you go around rebuking imagined demons or real ones. The Bible clearly warns us about this and unless you've had first hand experience...

l tell you a teaspoon of what l know.

If you aren't grounded in Love an attempt to even intercede for those tormented by demons your in for a nasty surprise..

During my time at working in an institution The Lord showed me many truths about this. (Ya Marie...I worked there l wasn't a resident though sometimes l felt right at home) When it say's "principalities and powers" Power is exactly what it is. If you don't stay in love and think it's a word game you will endanger yourself and your family and cause the very person you are praying for to be tormented even further. What do l mean by staying in love?

It's a decision.

Oh the temptation to stray from the path when quick growing vines entangle the way. Are your feet shod? By staying steadfast the Glow of Spirit will enlighten the plan of the enemy.

This decision will cause every vine that seeks to trip you up to wither in the presence of the Lord.

Sometimes he catches us and sometimes he let's us fall. But the wisdom of the Lord always bears fruit...

How easily we forget the advice the Lord gives us....I will learn it again today.

Well said, Miki.... very well said!!

To well said...because it made me realized l haven't let it go.....

I'm sorry sweetie... know that you know you haven't let it go you need to pray about it and finally hand it over to the Lord. He wants to take this burden from you... I know you know that.

I'll pray for you honey. If you ever need to talk, you know where to find me!

Love to you!!
Lisa