From Globe and Mail March 18, 2006
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...ernational/home
God's scientist receives supreme award
Richest grant goes to cosmologist who says religion best explains laws of universe
MICHAEL VALPY
From Thursday's Globe and Mail
Cambridge University cosmologist and mathematician John Barrow was awarded $1.6-million yesterday to do research into whether God is sitting at the control panel behind the Theory of Everything about the universe.
He won the 2006 Templeton Prize for Progress Toward Research or Discoveries about Spiritual Realities, the world's richest individual scholarly research grant. Its initiator, mutual-fund investor Sir John Templeton, specified that it be worth more than the Nobel Prize (which is worth about $1.5-million) so the media would take it seriously.
Dr. Barrow, 53, author of 17 books and one play (about infinity), believes that monotheistic religious thought about God and creation offers a better explanation than anything else, including most science, of how the universe works.
He is one of the leading proponents of the anthropic principle of the universe, the dials-set-right idea -- the notion that the universe is, in Goldilocks's words, "just right" for life on Earth. Because if it were a little bigger or smaller, a little colder or warmer, a little younger or older, then life wouldn't exist.
His ideas and research fit to a T many theologians' underlying notions of the new cosmology, the idea that, because the universe did not create itself, it must have a cause separate from itself. Or as one of them, reading Dr. Barrow's acceptance speech for his award, said admiringly: "I wish I'd said that."
Dr. Barrow is director of Cambridge's Millennium Mathematics Project and Gresham professor of astronomy at London's Gresham College, the world's oldest science professorship, founded in 1596.
He has been a popular writer in Britain since the publication of his 1986 book, The Anthropic Cosmological Principle, co-authored with mathematician Frank Tipler, and has lectured on cosmology at the Venice Film Festival, 10 Downing St., Windsor Castle and the Vatican.
His most recent book is The Infinite Book: A Short Guide to the Boundless, Timeless and Endless. His 2002 play, Infinities, was a smash hit for the two seasons it ran at Milan's La Scala.
Dr. Barrow said in an interview yesterday he is not sure yet how he will use the money. He also said he doesn't think the U.S.-based John Templeton Foundation, which oversees selection of the award's annual winner, had any particular expectations of what research he would do.
The essence of his research, as he put it, is the quest for the simple laws -- "perhaps just one law" -- that lie behind all the complexities of the universe, "like the laws of nature that are so impressively, beautifully symmetrical, but can have such highly irregular, asymmetrical outcomes."
What has attracted the Templeton Foundation is his engagement with the structure of the universe and its laws that make life possible, as well as the multidisciplinary perspectives he has developed on the limits of scientific explanation and the mysteries of nothingness and infinity.
"Over the past 75 years," he says, "astronomers have illuminated the vault of the heavens in a completely unexpected way."
They have found, he says, a universe not only bigger than was once thought, but getting bigger. They have found that life on Earth comprises complicated atoms of carbon, nitrogen and oxygen whose nuclei took almost 10 billion years to be formed by "stellar alchemy" before being blasted through the universe by the explosions of dying stars.
"So you begin to understand why it is no surprise that the universe seems so big and so old. It takes nearly 10 billion years to make the building blocks of living complexity in the stars and, because the universe is expanding, it must be at least 10 billion light years in size. We could not exist in a universe that was significantly smaller.
"The vastness of the universe is often cited as evidence for the extreme likelihood of life elsewhere. [But] while there may be life, even conscious life, elsewhere, sheer size is not compelling. The universe needs to be billions of light years in size just to support one lonely outpost of life."
Dr. Barrow says that astronomy's revelations -- that a big, old, dark, cold universe with its planets and stars and galaxies separated by vast distances is necessary for the creation and existence of pinpricks of life -- have "transformed the simple-minded, life-averse, meaningless universe of the skeptical philosophers.
"It breathes new life into so many religious questions of ultimate concern and never-ending fascination. Many of the deepest and most engaging questions that we grapple with still about the nature of the universe have their origins in our purely religious quest for meaning.
"We see now how it is possible for a universe that displays unending complexity and exquisite structure to be governed by a few simple laws that are symmetrical and intelligible, laws which govern the most remarkable things in our universe -- populations of elementary 'particles' that are everywhere perfectly identical.
"There are some who say that just because we use our minds to appreciate the order and complexity of the universe around us, there is nothing more to that order than what is imposed by the human mind. That is a serious misjudgment."
Full Version: The Theory Of Everything
Christian-Forum.net > Debates (NOT FOR THOSE EASILY OFFENDED!) > Evidence for the bible and creationism debates
QUOTE(Shekel @ Mar 18 2006, 08:17 PM)
From Globe and Mail March 18, 2006
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...ernational/home
God's scientist receives supreme award
Richest grant goes to cosmologist who says religion best explains laws of universe
MICHAEL VALPY
From Thursday's Globe and Mail
Cambridge University cosmologist and mathematician John Barrow was awarded $1.6-million yesterday to do research into whether God is sitting at the control panel behind the Theory of Everything about the universe.
He won the 2006 Templeton Prize for Progress Toward Research or Discoveries about Spiritual Realities, the world's richest individual scholarly research grant. Its initiator, mutual-fund investor Sir John Templeton, specified that it be worth more than the Nobel Prize (which is worth about $1.5-million) so the media would take it seriously.
Dr. Barrow, 53, author of 17 books and one play (about infinity), believes that monotheistic religious thought about God and creation offers a better explanation than anything else, including most science, of how the universe works.
He is one of the leading proponents of the anthropic principle of the universe, the dials-set-right idea -- the notion that the universe is, in Goldilocks's words, "just right" for life on Earth. Because if it were a little bigger or smaller, a little colder or warmer, a little younger or older, then life wouldn't exist.
His ideas and research fit to a T many theologians' underlying notions of the new cosmology, the idea that, because the universe did not create itself, it must have a cause separate from itself. Or as one of them, reading Dr. Barrow's acceptance speech for his award, said admiringly: "I wish I'd said that."
Dr. Barrow is director of Cambridge's Millennium Mathematics Project and Gresham professor of astronomy at London's Gresham College, the world's oldest science professorship, founded in 1596.
He has been a popular writer in Britain since the publication of his 1986 book, The Anthropic Cosmological Principle, co-authored with mathematician Frank Tipler, and has lectured on cosmology at the Venice Film Festival, 10 Downing St., Windsor Castle and the Vatican.
His most recent book is The Infinite Book: A Short Guide to the Boundless, Timeless and Endless. His 2002 play, Infinities, was a smash hit for the two seasons it ran at Milan's La Scala.
Dr. Barrow said in an interview yesterday he is not sure yet how he will use the money. He also said he doesn't think the U.S.-based John Templeton Foundation, which oversees selection of the award's annual winner, had any particular expectations of what research he would do.
The essence of his research, as he put it, is the quest for the simple laws -- "perhaps just one law" -- that lie behind all the complexities of the universe, "like the laws of nature that are so impressively, beautifully symmetrical, but can have such highly irregular, asymmetrical outcomes."
What has attracted the Templeton Foundation is his engagement with the structure of the universe and its laws that make life possible, as well as the multidisciplinary perspectives he has developed on the limits of scientific explanation and the mysteries of nothingness and infinity.
"Over the past 75 years," he says, "astronomers have illuminated the vault of the heavens in a completely unexpected way."
They have found, he says, a universe not only bigger than was once thought, but getting bigger. They have found that life on Earth comprises complicated atoms of carbon, nitrogen and oxygen whose nuclei took almost 10 billion years to be formed by "stellar alchemy" before being blasted through the universe by the explosions of dying stars.
"So you begin to understand why it is no surprise that the universe seems so big and so old. It takes nearly 10 billion years to make the building blocks of living complexity in the stars and, because the universe is expanding, it must be at least 10 billion light years in size. We could not exist in a universe that was significantly smaller.
"The vastness of the universe is often cited as evidence for the extreme likelihood of life elsewhere. [But] while there may be life, even conscious life, elsewhere, sheer size is not compelling. The universe needs to be billions of light years in size just to support one lonely outpost of life."
Dr. Barrow says that astronomy's revelations -- that a big, old, dark, cold universe with its planets and stars and galaxies separated by vast distances is necessary for the creation and existence of pinpricks of life -- have "transformed the simple-minded, life-averse, meaningless universe of the skeptical philosophers.
"It breathes new life into so many religious questions of ultimate concern and never-ending fascination. Many of the deepest and most engaging questions that we grapple with still about the nature of the universe have their origins in our purely religious quest for meaning.
"We see now how it is possible for a universe that displays unending complexity and exquisite structure to be governed by a few simple laws that are symmetrical and intelligible, laws which govern the most remarkable things in our universe -- populations of elementary 'particles' that are everywhere perfectly identical.
"There are some who say that just because we use our minds to appreciate the order and complexity of the universe around us, there is nothing more to that order than what is imposed by the human mind. That is a serious misjudgment."
[right][snapback]47850[/snapback][/right]
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...ernational/home
God's scientist receives supreme award
Richest grant goes to cosmologist who says religion best explains laws of universe
MICHAEL VALPY
From Thursday's Globe and Mail
Cambridge University cosmologist and mathematician John Barrow was awarded $1.6-million yesterday to do research into whether God is sitting at the control panel behind the Theory of Everything about the universe.
He won the 2006 Templeton Prize for Progress Toward Research or Discoveries about Spiritual Realities, the world's richest individual scholarly research grant. Its initiator, mutual-fund investor Sir John Templeton, specified that it be worth more than the Nobel Prize (which is worth about $1.5-million) so the media would take it seriously.
Dr. Barrow, 53, author of 17 books and one play (about infinity), believes that monotheistic religious thought about God and creation offers a better explanation than anything else, including most science, of how the universe works.
He is one of the leading proponents of the anthropic principle of the universe, the dials-set-right idea -- the notion that the universe is, in Goldilocks's words, "just right" for life on Earth. Because if it were a little bigger or smaller, a little colder or warmer, a little younger or older, then life wouldn't exist.
His ideas and research fit to a T many theologians' underlying notions of the new cosmology, the idea that, because the universe did not create itself, it must have a cause separate from itself. Or as one of them, reading Dr. Barrow's acceptance speech for his award, said admiringly: "I wish I'd said that."
Dr. Barrow is director of Cambridge's Millennium Mathematics Project and Gresham professor of astronomy at London's Gresham College, the world's oldest science professorship, founded in 1596.
He has been a popular writer in Britain since the publication of his 1986 book, The Anthropic Cosmological Principle, co-authored with mathematician Frank Tipler, and has lectured on cosmology at the Venice Film Festival, 10 Downing St., Windsor Castle and the Vatican.
His most recent book is The Infinite Book: A Short Guide to the Boundless, Timeless and Endless. His 2002 play, Infinities, was a smash hit for the two seasons it ran at Milan's La Scala.
Dr. Barrow said in an interview yesterday he is not sure yet how he will use the money. He also said he doesn't think the U.S.-based John Templeton Foundation, which oversees selection of the award's annual winner, had any particular expectations of what research he would do.
The essence of his research, as he put it, is the quest for the simple laws -- "perhaps just one law" -- that lie behind all the complexities of the universe, "like the laws of nature that are so impressively, beautifully symmetrical, but can have such highly irregular, asymmetrical outcomes."
What has attracted the Templeton Foundation is his engagement with the structure of the universe and its laws that make life possible, as well as the multidisciplinary perspectives he has developed on the limits of scientific explanation and the mysteries of nothingness and infinity.
"Over the past 75 years," he says, "astronomers have illuminated the vault of the heavens in a completely unexpected way."
They have found, he says, a universe not only bigger than was once thought, but getting bigger. They have found that life on Earth comprises complicated atoms of carbon, nitrogen and oxygen whose nuclei took almost 10 billion years to be formed by "stellar alchemy" before being blasted through the universe by the explosions of dying stars.
"So you begin to understand why it is no surprise that the universe seems so big and so old. It takes nearly 10 billion years to make the building blocks of living complexity in the stars and, because the universe is expanding, it must be at least 10 billion light years in size. We could not exist in a universe that was significantly smaller.
"The vastness of the universe is often cited as evidence for the extreme likelihood of life elsewhere. [But] while there may be life, even conscious life, elsewhere, sheer size is not compelling. The universe needs to be billions of light years in size just to support one lonely outpost of life."
Dr. Barrow says that astronomy's revelations -- that a big, old, dark, cold universe with its planets and stars and galaxies separated by vast distances is necessary for the creation and existence of pinpricks of life -- have "transformed the simple-minded, life-averse, meaningless universe of the skeptical philosophers.
"It breathes new life into so many religious questions of ultimate concern and never-ending fascination. Many of the deepest and most engaging questions that we grapple with still about the nature of the universe have their origins in our purely religious quest for meaning.
"We see now how it is possible for a universe that displays unending complexity and exquisite structure to be governed by a few simple laws that are symmetrical and intelligible, laws which govern the most remarkable things in our universe -- populations of elementary 'particles' that are everywhere perfectly identical.
"There are some who say that just because we use our minds to appreciate the order and complexity of the universe around us, there is nothing more to that order than what is imposed by the human mind. That is a serious misjudgment."
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a good artical
thanks Dean
a big wight throne (bukingham palace)
Gary
Thanks Shekel...too much to quote in that article. But here is just one....
The TRUTH SETS us FREE. AMEN!
QUOTE
"There are some who say that just because we use our minds to appreciate the order and complexity of the universe around us, there is nothing more to that order than what is imposed by the human mind. That is a serious misjudgment."
The TRUTH SETS us FREE. AMEN!
Haven't heard of Barrow before. Sounds like an interesting fellow.
I suppose the chances are pretty small he is related to Newton's teacher, who was I believe Isaac Barrow?!
I suppose the chances are pretty small he is related to Newton's teacher, who was I believe Isaac Barrow?!
Praise be to God, Shekel! Amen.
"Intellectuals Speak Out About God",
"After the discovery of the 2.7 k radiation cosmologists began to wonder at the extremely narrow margin allowed for cosmic evolution. The universe began to appear as if an extremely narrow track had been laid ultimately for man's appearence."
sojourner
"Intellectuals Speak Out About God",
"After the discovery of the 2.7 k radiation cosmologists began to wonder at the extremely narrow margin allowed for cosmic evolution. The universe began to appear as if an extremely narrow track had been laid ultimately for man's appearence."
sojourner
Shekel, Thanks for bringing all of this to our attention, I did post this once, but it alot of science info about the "Proof of there being a God" and a dear friend told me I could share this science stuff with anyone else, so here are some really amazing links about "How God made and still works in the universe".
I hope this isn't off topic, but thought it isn't so here ya' go:
If you like physics, you'll love reading this stuff, it actually inhanced my faith, as I was taught this stuff as a child, by my dad, and now it shows me how even the universe "Praises HIM", amen!
Here is the link, with my friends persimission to share:
string theory, M theory, 11 dimensions, parallel universes, enjoy
here is a sound sample of the bigbang...
sound came first, just like in genesis and john 1:1.
listen here
http://www.astro.virginia.edu/~dmw8f/sound...s/first1Myr.wav
from this web site
http://www.astro.virginia.edu/~dmw8f/sound...files/index.php
sound creates order...the science of cymatics
http://www.cymaticsource.com/
http://www.mysticalsun.com/cymatics/cymatics.html
check my post on string theory and the Hebrew letters (sefer yetzirah)
or look here
http://www.inner.org/string/string1.htm
(forgive the kabbalah reference)
http://www.crystalinks.com/math.html
string theory is the best candidate to unite relativity, quantum physics, and quantum gravity
http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/gr/public/qg_ss.html
And here:
well Einstein called it the cosmoligical constant, then discarded it....it was the opposite of gravity
to bad because he was correct!
we now call it dark energy, which along with dark matter is the newest kid on the block of cosmology.
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050829/full/050829-18.html
Just if you like "let me know" what ya' think, I just thought it was way cool...how the universe "sings His praises", which I do even have a link up to the "sounds of the universe" for any who are interested.
to all, your sis, hannah
PS If there are any "new agey" things that make you afraid to read this stuff...remember most of the "science" guys are secular....just skip their thoughts and read about where you see "The Hand of G-d" at work, amen.
I hope this isn't off topic, but thought it isn't so here ya' go:
If you like physics, you'll love reading this stuff, it actually inhanced my faith, as I was taught this stuff as a child, by my dad, and now it shows me how even the universe "Praises HIM", amen!
Here is the link, with my friends persimission to share:
string theory, M theory, 11 dimensions, parallel universes, enjoy
here is a sound sample of the bigbang...
sound came first, just like in genesis and john 1:1.
listen here
http://www.astro.virginia.edu/~dmw8f/sound...s/first1Myr.wav
from this web site
http://www.astro.virginia.edu/~dmw8f/sound...files/index.php
sound creates order...the science of cymatics
http://www.cymaticsource.com/
http://www.mysticalsun.com/cymatics/cymatics.html
check my post on string theory and the Hebrew letters (sefer yetzirah)
or look here
http://www.inner.org/string/string1.htm
(forgive the kabbalah reference)
http://www.crystalinks.com/math.html
string theory is the best candidate to unite relativity, quantum physics, and quantum gravity
http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/gr/public/qg_ss.html
And here:
well Einstein called it the cosmoligical constant, then discarded it....it was the opposite of gravity
to bad because he was correct!
we now call it dark energy, which along with dark matter is the newest kid on the block of cosmology.
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050829/full/050829-18.html
Just if you like "let me know" what ya' think, I just thought it was way cool...how the universe "sings His praises", which I do even have a link up to the "sounds of the universe" for any who are interested.
to all, your sis, hannahPS If there are any "new agey" things that make you afraid to read this stuff...remember most of the "science" guys are secular....just skip their thoughts and read about where you see "The Hand of G-d" at work, amen.
I have just read " The Case for a Creator" by Lee Strobel. If anybody is into the scientific thoughts about creation by the biggest Christian scientific minds of our day, then you will find this facinating reading.
C
C
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4819370.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4816712.stm
http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/science/03/17...reut/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/03/16/h...reut/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/03/16/c...n.ap/index.html
Doesn't the BIBLE mention these things in the last days? Signs in the Sun and the Moon and the Stars....In heavenly places.....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4816712.stm
http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/science/03/17...reut/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/03/16/h...reut/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/03/16/c...n.ap/index.html
Doesn't the BIBLE mention these things in the last days? Signs in the Sun and the Moon and the Stars....In heavenly places.....
QUOTE(hannah fievel @ Mar 19 2006, 01:27 PM)
Shekel, Thanks for bringing all of this to our attention, I did post this once, but it alot of science info about the "Proof of there being a God" and a dear friend told me I could share this science stuff with anyone else, so here are some really amazing links about "How God made and still works in the universe".
I hope this isn't off topic, but thought it isn't so here ya' go:
If you like physics, you'll love reading this stuff, it actually inhanced my faith, as I was taught this stuff as a child, by my dad, and now it shows me how even the universe "Praises HIM", amen!
Here is the link, with my friends persimission to share:
string theory, M theory, 11 dimensions, parallel universes, enjoy
here is a sound sample of the bigbang...
sound came first, just like in genesis and john 1:1.
listen here
http://www.astro.virginia.edu/~dmw8f/sound...s/first1Myr.wav
from this web site
http://www.astro.virginia.edu/~dmw8f/sound...files/index.php
sound creates order...the science of cymatics
http://www.cymaticsource.com/
http://www.mysticalsun.com/cymatics/cymatics.html
check my post on string theory and the Hebrew letters (sefer yetzirah)
or look here
http://www.inner.org/string/string1.htm
(forgive the kabbalah reference)
http://www.crystalinks.com/math.html
string theory is the best candidate to unite relativity, quantum physics, and quantum gravity
http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/gr/public/qg_ss.html
And here:
well Einstein called it the cosmoligical constant, then discarded it....it was the opposite of gravity
to bad because he was correct!
we now call it dark energy, which along with dark matter is the newest kid on the block of cosmology.
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050829/full/050829-18.html
Just if you like "let me know" what ya' think, I just thought it was way cool...how the universe "sings His praises", which I do even have a link up to the "sounds of the universe" for any who are interested. to all, your sis, hannah
PS If there are any "new agey" things that make you afraid to read this stuff...remember most of the "science" guys are secular....just skip their thoughts and read about where you see "The Hand of G-d" at work, amen.
[right][snapback]47964[/snapback][/right]
I hope this isn't off topic, but thought it isn't so here ya' go:
If you like physics, you'll love reading this stuff, it actually inhanced my faith, as I was taught this stuff as a child, by my dad, and now it shows me how even the universe "Praises HIM", amen!
Here is the link, with my friends persimission to share:
string theory, M theory, 11 dimensions, parallel universes, enjoy
here is a sound sample of the bigbang...
sound came first, just like in genesis and john 1:1.
listen here
http://www.astro.virginia.edu/~dmw8f/sound...s/first1Myr.wav
from this web site
http://www.astro.virginia.edu/~dmw8f/sound...files/index.php
sound creates order...the science of cymatics
http://www.cymaticsource.com/
http://www.mysticalsun.com/cymatics/cymatics.html
check my post on string theory and the Hebrew letters (sefer yetzirah)
or look here
http://www.inner.org/string/string1.htm
(forgive the kabbalah reference)
http://www.crystalinks.com/math.html
string theory is the best candidate to unite relativity, quantum physics, and quantum gravity
http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/gr/public/qg_ss.html
And here:
well Einstein called it the cosmoligical constant, then discarded it....it was the opposite of gravity
to bad because he was correct!
we now call it dark energy, which along with dark matter is the newest kid on the block of cosmology.
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050829/full/050829-18.html
Just if you like "let me know" what ya' think, I just thought it was way cool...how the universe "sings His praises", which I do even have a link up to the "sounds of the universe" for any who are interested.
to all, your sis, hannahPS If there are any "new agey" things that make you afraid to read this stuff...remember most of the "science" guys are secular....just skip their thoughts and read about where you see "The Hand of G-d" at work, amen.
[right][snapback]47964[/snapback][/right]
Thanks!
I especially find things like "string theory, M theory, 11 dimensions, parallel universes" interesting. It just shows how unbelievably complex our universe is and therefore glorifies God. None of these theories contradict the bible as far as a can tell, though of course I know very little about any of them. They are fun to try to wrap your brain around though!
Shekels article was interesting but l didn't have to look very long before many red flags went up concerning some of the links in hanna'a post.
Mystery Babylon had (has) a lot to offer. It stimulates the intelluctual curiosity of men and boldly goes where angels fear to tread.
Mystery Babylon had (has) a lot to offer. It stimulates the intelluctual curiosity of men and boldly goes where angels fear to tread.
Well, ya know Shekel, God sure seems to be opening eyes these days. You never know what can dawn on you these days. Even physics!
sojourner
sojourner
QUOTE(Miki @ Mar 21 2006, 11:08 AM)
Shekels article was interesting but l didn't have to look very long before many red flags went up concerning some of the links in hanna'a post.
Mystery Babylon had (has) a lot to offer. It stimulates the intelluctual curiosity of men and boldly goes where angels fear to tread.
[right][snapback]48391[/snapback][/right]
Mystery Babylon had (has) a lot to offer. It stimulates the intelluctual curiosity of men and boldly goes where angels fear to tread.
[right][snapback]48391[/snapback][/right]
Yes, but we were prewarned that they were secular links. The idea is to screen it through the grid of the Word of God.
Anything that draws me closer to God and makes me marvel is fair game for me to study. Of course, as said, we must test everything by the Word of God though.
QUOTE(Shekel @ Mar 21 2006, 12:26 PM)
QUOTE(Miki @ Mar 21 2006, 11:08 AM)
Shekels article was interesting but l didn't have to look very long before many red flags went up concerning some of the links in hanna'a post.
Mystery Babylon had (has) a lot to offer. It stimulates the intelluctual curiosity of men and boldly goes where angels fear to tread.
[right][snapback]48391[/snapback][/right]
Mystery Babylon had (has) a lot to offer. It stimulates the intelluctual curiosity of men and boldly goes where angels fear to tread.
[right][snapback]48391[/snapback][/right]
Yes, but we were prewarned that they were secular links. The idea is to screen it through the grid of the Word of God.
Anything that draws me closer to God and makes me marvel is fair game for me to study. Of course, as said, we must test everything by the Word of God though.
[right][snapback]48417[/snapback][/right]
Thank you Shekel for reiterating that these are "secular" sites...and "yes" as Miki mentioned "there are some red flags"...but we are smarter than the average human and can glean "where we DO see G-d in the universe" and in all things that He made. I did warn of some "new agey" sounding things, but none the less "if something does line up with the word" then it can be seen by a Christian, true?
Miki, just curious, did you read about the "double helix and black hole they found in our galaxy" and this was found just recently I might add, I don't know how to hook to another thread, sorry about that, but it is under "proof for the bible" I believe! A double helix is "what a human genome looks like" and to think there is actualy a "genetic code in our galaxy" just blew me away! The fingerprints of G-d are everywhere! Too cool if ya' ask me, but I am a science buff...so that may be why I find "all of the theories of the universe soooo interesting". Hope these sites haven't led anyone astray, as that was totally not the point. The point was to show "How perfectly G-d created everything"!!! AMEN!
to all, your sis, hannah
It is true...but people who don't know skip by.... It may bring confusion. No l didn't read the double Helix. Might stop back.
QUOTE(onetiggerroo @ Mar 22 2006, 12:05 AM)
Double helix......
http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/03/16/h...reut/index.html
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http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/03/16/h...reut/index.html
[right][snapback]48490[/snapback][/right]
wow
This stuff's right up my alley. The heavens declare the glory of God. The language of physics and mathematics scream "spiritual", yet still leaves room for the need of faith. This is NOT a bad thing. Irrefutable proof = no choice = no free will. The 95% certainity principle is good enough for me.
QUOTE (hannah fievel @ Mar 19 2006, 12:27 PM) 
Shekel, Thanks for bringing all of this to our attention, I did post this once, but it alot of science info about the "Proof of there being a God" and a dear friend told me I could share this science stuff with anyone else, so here are some really amazing links about "How God made and still works in the universe".
I hope this isn't off topic, but thought it isn't so here ya' go:
If you like physics, you'll love reading this stuff, it actually inhanced my faith, as I was taught this stuff as a child, by my dad, and now it shows me how even the universe "Praises HIM", amen!
Here is the link, with my friends persimission to share:
string theory, M theory, 11 dimensions, parallel universes, enjoy
here is a sound sample of the bigbang...
sound came first, just like in genesis and john 1:1.
listen here
http://www.astro.virginia.edu/~dmw8f/sound...s/first1Myr.wav
from this web site
http://www.astro.virginia.edu/~dmw8f/sound...files/index.php
sound creates order...the science of cymatics
http://www.cymaticsource.com/
http://www.mysticalsun.com/cymatics/cymatics.html
check my post on string theory and the Hebrew letters (sefer yetzirah)
or look here
http://www.inner.org/string/string1.htm
(forgive the kabbalah reference)
http://www.crystalinks.com/math.html
string theory is the best candidate to unite relativity, quantum physics, and quantum gravity
http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/gr/public/qg_ss.html
And here:
well Einstein called it the cosmoligical constant, then discarded it....it was the opposite of gravity
to bad because he was correct!
we now call it dark energy, which along with dark matter is the newest kid on the block of cosmology.
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050829/full/050829-18.html
Just if you like "let me know" what ya' think, I just thought it was way cool...how the universe "sings His praises", which I do even have a link up to the "sounds of the universe" for any who are interested. to all, your sis, hannah
PS If there are any "new agey" things that make you afraid to read this stuff...remember most of the "science" guys are secular....just skip their thoughts and read about where you see "The Hand of G-d" at work, amen.
I hope this isn't off topic, but thought it isn't so here ya' go:
If you like physics, you'll love reading this stuff, it actually inhanced my faith, as I was taught this stuff as a child, by my dad, and now it shows me how even the universe "Praises HIM", amen!
Here is the link, with my friends persimission to share:
string theory, M theory, 11 dimensions, parallel universes, enjoy
here is a sound sample of the bigbang...
sound came first, just like in genesis and john 1:1.
listen here
http://www.astro.virginia.edu/~dmw8f/sound...s/first1Myr.wav
from this web site
http://www.astro.virginia.edu/~dmw8f/sound...files/index.php
sound creates order...the science of cymatics
http://www.cymaticsource.com/
http://www.mysticalsun.com/cymatics/cymatics.html
check my post on string theory and the Hebrew letters (sefer yetzirah)
or look here
http://www.inner.org/string/string1.htm
(forgive the kabbalah reference)
http://www.crystalinks.com/math.html
string theory is the best candidate to unite relativity, quantum physics, and quantum gravity
http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/gr/public/qg_ss.html
And here:
well Einstein called it the cosmoligical constant, then discarded it....it was the opposite of gravity
to bad because he was correct!
we now call it dark energy, which along with dark matter is the newest kid on the block of cosmology.
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050829/full/050829-18.html
Just if you like "let me know" what ya' think, I just thought it was way cool...how the universe "sings His praises", which I do even have a link up to the "sounds of the universe" for any who are interested.
to all, your sis, hannahPS If there are any "new agey" things that make you afraid to read this stuff...remember most of the "science" guys are secular....just skip their thoughts and read about where you see "The Hand of G-d" at work, amen.
The physical earth of today could not have possibly existed until the Fourth Day of the Creation, because it was not until then that God made the stars. I am a devout Creationist, somebody please explain this to me.
reddneo
QUOTE (kenneth g @ Apr 30 2008, 04:08 PM)
The physical earth of today could not have possibly existed until the Fourth Day of the Creation, because it was not until then that God made the stars. I am a devout Creationist, somebody please explain this to me.
reddneo
reddneo
It's really very simple, but it has nothing to do with the current astronomical scenario that the Sun is the original star to our system as astronomers have erroneous assumed, so this notion needs to be understood. In the first day (epoch) of our stellar system's 6-phase chronological history the Earth and our paternal star, Sirius B, were created. There were only 2 members to our initial system. At that time our current Sun did not exist, nor did today's current companion to Sirius B, being the huge star Sirius A... and 10 other planets did not exist; all these were still in the "belly" of Sirius B, originally a B-1 class Blue Supergiant, called in Genesis 1 "or", being light as in a "star"... "There was OR (light)."
It wasn't until the conclusion of the 4th day (epoch) of creation that Sirius B received a cometary impact, called "Comet Metis" ("Knowledge" or "Prudence"). It was this cosmocataclysmic event that precipitated the Flood of Noah, for ejected stellar debris jettisoned outwardly from the colossal impact and sprayed the Edenic Earth with mass celestial bombardment. This in turn collapsed the “upper hydrospheric shield” (water vapor canopy: “Prima Altohydrosphere”) which had been apart of the Earth’s original ecosystem and formed during the coalescing of the primordial Earth when it was initially a “plasmosphere”. This shield condensed the atmospheric pressure so that there was a 30% greater oxygen concentrate and it increased the geomagnetic amplitude, which created the fine tuned conditions for the generation of “Gigantism” (giantism) where all life grew to tremendous stature (60% greater) and also created immense longevity of all life.
This Prima Altohydrosphere encapsulated the Edenic earth like a bubble and was composed of frozen H2O (water), nitrogen, carbon and other trace elements. From the view of an earthbound viewer it appeared much like the diffusional affect of, say, frosted Plexiglas, like a shower door. As a result, in the Antediluvium Period the light from the stars was diffused and undetectable; the only celestial object visible was the “Ouranian Sun”, being our paternal star Sirius B. The Moon did not exist at this time. When the upper hydrospheric shield collapsed SUDDENLY for the first time the stars were visible from Earth, but in reality they were always there; they always existed; it was this catastrophe that made it seem as if they were SUDDENLY created at the conclusion of the 4th day (epoch) of creation.
After the impact of Comet Metis, 140 days later at the conclusion of the Flood another catastrophe ensued… where the photosphere of Sirius B tore open when the crater bulge from the cometary impact exceeded its maximum tolerance and ruptured 180º around the equator of the star… when it reached the area of displaced internal mass and pressure build-up caused by the Metisian Impact, this internal stellar mass ejected out in a great mass stellar ejection episode, creating two new stars, Sirius A and our Sun, technically Sirius C, and 10 new planets. Thus, the creation of Sirius A and Sirius B were the creation of the "two great lights" described at the conclusion of the 4th day (epoch) of creation. This was the formation of our former “Osirian Tertiary Stellar System”, containing 14 celestial members. Sirius B became a diminished F-1 class star because it lost 70% of it mass from the mass stellar ejection episode. The tertiary system was structured as such: Sirius B and Sirius C (our Sun) were in a binary relationship at the core of the system; Sirius A was the outer star that encompassed the "body" of the system; between were located 11 planets; Earth had an orbit as far away from the stellar center as Pluto today is from our Sun (in mean distance); Earth was sandwiched in an orbit between Jupiter and a larger planet, being the farthest planet from the stellar center named "Kingu" (according to the Ancient Babylonians); it dwarfed Jupiter as the largest planet; and it had a figure-8 orbit around the "body" of the system and around the outer star, Sirius A. When the tertiary system split in half (into our current Solar System and the Sirius Binary)due to Sirius B exploding into a planetary nebula, Kingu's atmosphere was torn away during the cosmocataclysm revealing its tiny solid iron-silica core... and it was hurled on a collision course with the Earth... Earth gravitationally "caught" it and it has been our Moon ever since.
-7
QUOTE (Shekel @ Mar 18 2006, 08:17 PM)
From Globe and Mail March 18, 2006
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...ernational/home
God's scientist receives supreme award
Richest grant goes to cosmologist who says religion best explains laws of universe
MICHAEL VALPY
From Thursday's Globe and Mail
Cambridge University cosmologist and mathematician John Barrow was awarded $1.6-million yesterday to do research into whether God is sitting at the control panel behind the Theory of Everything about the universe.
He won the 2006 Templeton Prize for Progress Toward Research or Discoveries about Spiritual Realities, the world's richest individual scholarly research grant. Its initiator, mutual-fund investor Sir John Templeton, specified that it be worth more than the Nobel Prize (which is worth about $1.5-million) so the media would take it seriously.
Dr. Barrow, 53, author of 17 books and one play (about infinity), believes that monotheistic religious thought about God and creation offers a better explanation than anything else, including most science, of how the universe works.
He is one of the leading proponents of the anthropic principle of the universe, the dials-set-right idea -- the notion that the universe is, in Goldilocks's words, "just right" for life on Earth. Because if it were a little bigger or smaller, a little colder or warmer, a little younger or older, then life wouldn't exist.
His ideas and research fit to a T many theologians' underlying notions of the new cosmology, the idea that, because the universe did not create itself, it must have a cause separate from itself. Or as one of them, reading Dr. Barrow's acceptance speech for his award, said admiringly: "I wish I'd said that."
Dr. Barrow is director of Cambridge's Millennium Mathematics Project and Gresham professor of astronomy at London's Gresham College, the world's oldest science professorship, founded in 1596.
He has been a popular writer in Britain since the publication of his 1986 book, The Anthropic Cosmological Principle, co-authored with mathematician Frank Tipler, and has lectured on cosmology at the Venice Film Festival, 10 Downing St., Windsor Castle and the Vatican.
His most recent book is The Infinite Book: A Short Guide to the Boundless, Timeless and Endless. His 2002 play, Infinities, was a smash hit for the two seasons it ran at Milan's La Scala.
Dr. Barrow said in an interview yesterday he is not sure yet how he will use the money. He also said he doesn't think the U.S.-based John Templeton Foundation, which oversees selection of the award's annual winner, had any particular expectations of what research he would do.
The essence of his research, as he put it, is the quest for the simple laws -- "perhaps just one law" -- that lie behind all the complexities of the universe, "like the laws of nature that are so impressively, beautifully symmetrical, but can have such highly irregular, asymmetrical outcomes."
What has attracted the Templeton Foundation is his engagement with the structure of the universe and its laws that make life possible, as well as the multidisciplinary perspectives he has developed on the limits of scientific explanation and the mysteries of nothingness and infinity.
"Over the past 75 years," he says, "astronomers have illuminated the vault of the heavens in a completely unexpected way."
They have found, he says, a universe not only bigger than was once thought, but getting bigger. They have found that life on Earth comprises complicated atoms of carbon, nitrogen and oxygen whose nuclei took almost 10 billion years to be formed by "stellar alchemy" before being blasted through the universe by the explosions of dying stars.
"So you begin to understand why it is no surprise that the universe seems so big and so old. It takes nearly 10 billion years to make the building blocks of living complexity in the stars and, because the universe is expanding, it must be at least 10 billion light years in size. We could not exist in a universe that was significantly smaller.
"The vastness of the universe is often cited as evidence for the extreme likelihood of life elsewhere. [But] while there may be life, even conscious life, elsewhere, sheer size is not compelling. The universe needs to be billions of light years in size just to support one lonely outpost of life."
Dr. Barrow says that astronomy's revelations -- that a big, old, dark, cold universe with its planets and stars and galaxies separated by vast distances is necessary for the creation and existence of pinpricks of life -- have "transformed the simple-minded, life-averse, meaningless universe of the skeptical philosophers.
"It breathes new life into so many religious questions of ultimate concern and never-ending fascination. Many of the deepest and most engaging questions that we grapple with still about the nature of the universe have their origins in our purely religious quest for meaning.
"We see now how it is possible for a universe that displays unending complexity and exquisite structure to be governed by a few simple laws that are symmetrical and intelligible, laws which govern the most remarkable things in our universe -- populations of elementary 'particles' that are everywhere perfectly identical.
"There are some who say that just because we use our minds to appreciate the order and complexity of the universe around us, there is nothing more to that order than what is imposed by the human mind. That is a serious misjudgment."
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...ernational/home
God's scientist receives supreme award
Richest grant goes to cosmologist who says religion best explains laws of universe
MICHAEL VALPY
From Thursday's Globe and Mail
Cambridge University cosmologist and mathematician John Barrow was awarded $1.6-million yesterday to do research into whether God is sitting at the control panel behind the Theory of Everything about the universe.
He won the 2006 Templeton Prize for Progress Toward Research or Discoveries about Spiritual Realities, the world's richest individual scholarly research grant. Its initiator, mutual-fund investor Sir John Templeton, specified that it be worth more than the Nobel Prize (which is worth about $1.5-million) so the media would take it seriously.
Dr. Barrow, 53, author of 17 books and one play (about infinity), believes that monotheistic religious thought about God and creation offers a better explanation than anything else, including most science, of how the universe works.
He is one of the leading proponents of the anthropic principle of the universe, the dials-set-right idea -- the notion that the universe is, in Goldilocks's words, "just right" for life on Earth. Because if it were a little bigger or smaller, a little colder or warmer, a little younger or older, then life wouldn't exist.
His ideas and research fit to a T many theologians' underlying notions of the new cosmology, the idea that, because the universe did not create itself, it must have a cause separate from itself. Or as one of them, reading Dr. Barrow's acceptance speech for his award, said admiringly: "I wish I'd said that."
Dr. Barrow is director of Cambridge's Millennium Mathematics Project and Gresham professor of astronomy at London's Gresham College, the world's oldest science professorship, founded in 1596.
He has been a popular writer in Britain since the publication of his 1986 book, The Anthropic Cosmological Principle, co-authored with mathematician Frank Tipler, and has lectured on cosmology at the Venice Film Festival, 10 Downing St., Windsor Castle and the Vatican.
His most recent book is The Infinite Book: A Short Guide to the Boundless, Timeless and Endless. His 2002 play, Infinities, was a smash hit for the two seasons it ran at Milan's La Scala.
Dr. Barrow said in an interview yesterday he is not sure yet how he will use the money. He also said he doesn't think the U.S.-based John Templeton Foundation, which oversees selection of the award's annual winner, had any particular expectations of what research he would do.
The essence of his research, as he put it, is the quest for the simple laws -- "perhaps just one law" -- that lie behind all the complexities of the universe, "like the laws of nature that are so impressively, beautifully symmetrical, but can have such highly irregular, asymmetrical outcomes."
What has attracted the Templeton Foundation is his engagement with the structure of the universe and its laws that make life possible, as well as the multidisciplinary perspectives he has developed on the limits of scientific explanation and the mysteries of nothingness and infinity.
"Over the past 75 years," he says, "astronomers have illuminated the vault of the heavens in a completely unexpected way."
They have found, he says, a universe not only bigger than was once thought, but getting bigger. They have found that life on Earth comprises complicated atoms of carbon, nitrogen and oxygen whose nuclei took almost 10 billion years to be formed by "stellar alchemy" before being blasted through the universe by the explosions of dying stars.
"So you begin to understand why it is no surprise that the universe seems so big and so old. It takes nearly 10 billion years to make the building blocks of living complexity in the stars and, because the universe is expanding, it must be at least 10 billion light years in size. We could not exist in a universe that was significantly smaller.
"The vastness of the universe is often cited as evidence for the extreme likelihood of life elsewhere. [But] while there may be life, even conscious life, elsewhere, sheer size is not compelling. The universe needs to be billions of light years in size just to support one lonely outpost of life."
Dr. Barrow says that astronomy's revelations -- that a big, old, dark, cold universe with its planets and stars and galaxies separated by vast distances is necessary for the creation and existence of pinpricks of life -- have "transformed the simple-minded, life-averse, meaningless universe of the skeptical philosophers.
"It breathes new life into so many religious questions of ultimate concern and never-ending fascination. Many of the deepest and most engaging questions that we grapple with still about the nature of the universe have their origins in our purely religious quest for meaning.
"We see now how it is possible for a universe that displays unending complexity and exquisite structure to be governed by a few simple laws that are symmetrical and intelligible, laws which govern the most remarkable things in our universe -- populations of elementary 'particles' that are everywhere perfectly identical.
"There are some who say that just because we use our minds to appreciate the order and complexity of the universe around us, there is nothing more to that order than what is imposed by the human mind. That is a serious misjudgment."
I've read the secular scientist opinions and would like to read Barrow for comparison. Which of his works do you recommend?
I have "The Constants of Nature" by John Barrow. It's the only book of his that I've read, I think. I am impressed with his intelligence and moderation in theorizing (he avoids "pontificating") (this is as opposed to, say, Richard Dawkins, for example).
QUOTE (THE SEVEN THUNDERS @ Apr 30 2008, 07:06 PM)
QUOTE (kenneth g @ Apr 30 2008, 04:08 PM)
The physical earth of today could not have possibly existed until the Fourth Day of the Creation, because it was not until then that God made the stars. I am a devout Creationist, somebody please explain this to me.
reddneo
reddneo
It's really very simple, but it has nothing to do with the current astronomical scenario that the Sun is the original star to our system as astronomers have erroneous assumed, so this notion needs to be understood. In the first day (epoch) of our stellar system's 6-phase chronological history the Earth and our paternal star, Sirius B, were created. There were only 2 members to our initial system. At that time our current Sun did not exist, nor did today's current companion to Sirius B, being the huge star Sirius A... and 10 other planets did not exist; all these were still in the "belly" of Sirius B, originally a B-1 class Blue Supergiant, called in Genesis 1 "or", being light as in a "star"... "There was OR (light)."
It wasn't until the conclusion of the 4th day (epoch) of creation that Sirius B received a cometary impact, called "Comet Metis" ("Knowledge" or "Prudence"). It was this cosmocataclysmic event that precipitated the Flood of Noah, for ejected stellar debris jettisoned outwardly from the colossal impact and sprayed the Edenic Earth with mass celestial bombardment. This in turn collapsed the “upper hydrospheric shield” (water vapor canopy: “Prima Altohydrosphere”) which had been apart of the Earth’s original ecosystem and formed during the coalescing of the primordial Earth when it was initially a “plasmosphere”. This shield condensed the atmospheric pressure so that there was a 30% greater oxygen concentrate and it increased the geomagnetic amplitude, which created the fine tuned conditions for the generation of “Gigantism” (giantism) where all life grew to tremendous stature (60% greater) and also created immense longevity of all life.
This Prima Altohydrosphere encapsulated the Edenic earth like a bubble and was composed of frozen H2O (water), nitrogen, carbon and other trace elements. From the view of an earthbound viewer it appeared much like the diffusional affect of, say, frosted Plexiglas, like a shower door. As a result, in the Antediluvium Period the light from the stars was diffused and undetectable; the only celestial object visible was the “Ouranian Sun”, being our paternal star Sirius B. The Moon did not exist at this time. When the upper hydrospheric shield collapsed SUDDENLY for the first time the stars were visible from Earth, but in reality they were always there; they always existed; it was this catastrophe that made it seem as if they were SUDDENLY created at the conclusion of the 4th day (epoch) of creation.
After the impact of Comet Metis, 140 days later at the conclusion of the Flood another catastrophe ensued… where the photosphere of Sirius B tore open when the crater bulge from the cometary impact exceeded its maximum tolerance and ruptured 180º around the equator of the star… when it reached the area of displaced internal mass and pressure build-up caused by the Metisian Impact, this internal stellar mass ejected out in a great mass stellar ejection episode, creating two new stars, Sirius A and our Sun, technically Sirius C, and 10 new planets. Thus, the creation of Sirius A and Sirius B were the creation of the "two great lights" described at the conclusion of the 4th day (epoch) of creation. This was the formation of our former “Osirian Tertiary Stellar System”, containing 14 celestial members. Sirius B became a diminished F-1 class star because it lost 70% of it mass from the mass stellar ejection episode. The tertiary system was structured as such: Sirius B and Sirius C (our Sun) were in a binary relationship at the core of the system; Sirius A was the outer star that encompassed the "body" of the system; between were located 11 planets; Earth had an orbit as far away from the stellar center as Pluto today is from our Sun (in mean distance); Earth was sandwiched in an orbit between Jupiter and a larger planet, being the farthest planet from the stellar center named "Kingu" (according to the Ancient Babylonians); it dwarfed Jupiter as the largest planet; and it had a figure-8 orbit around the "body" of the system and around the outer star, Sirius A. When the tertiary system split in half (into our current Solar System and the Sirius Binary)due to Sirius B exploding into a planetary nebula, Kingu's atmosphere was torn away during the cosmocataclysm revealing its tiny solid iron-silica core... and it was hurled on a collision course with the Earth... Earth gravitationally "caught" it and it has been our Moon ever since.
-7
When the upper hydrospheric shield collapsed SUDDENLY for the first time the stars were visible from Earth, but in reality they were always there; they always existed; it was this catastrophe that made it seem as if they were SUDDENLY created at the conclusion of the 4th day (epoch) of creation.
What you are saying is that the 6 day period of Creation is not literal, but it looked as though there were no sun and stars on Earth until the fourth day.
Jack777,
The wording in the Genesis Creation account says that God made, not "showed", the Sun and Moon and stars on the fourth "Earth-day". "Made", versus "showed". There is a difference.
QUOTE
What you are saying is that the 6 day period of Creation is not literal, but it looked as though there were no sun and stars on Earth until the fourth day.
The wording in the Genesis Creation account says that God made, not "showed", the Sun and Moon and stars on the fourth "Earth-day". "Made", versus "showed". There is a difference.
QUOTE (Godsword @ May 21 2008, 09:51 AM)
Jack777,
The wording in the Genesis Creation account says that God made, not "showed", the Sun and Moon and stars on the fourth "Earth-day". "Made", versus "showed". There is a difference.
QUOTE
What you are saying is that the 6 day period of Creation is not literal, but it looked as though there were no sun and stars on Earth until the fourth day.
The wording in the Genesis Creation account says that God made, not "showed", the Sun and Moon and stars on the fourth "Earth-day". "Made", versus "showed". There is a difference.
read this again, I was responding to a post
When the upper hydrospheric shield collapsed SUDDENLY for the first time the stars were visible from Earth, but in reality they were always there; they always existed; it was this catastrophe that made it seem as if they were SUDDENLY created at the conclusion of the 4th day (epoch) of creation.
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