Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: One Reason I Did Not To Lose My Faith
Christian-Forum.net > Debates (NOT FOR THOSE EASILY OFFENDED!) > Evidence for the bible and creationism debates
mead777
I have some personal experiences to share with people that my be helpful to some. It does require me to give some personal background to give readers context.

My personal experiences very briefly in childhood and high school was that I was book smart and so things came easily to me. At the same time I had a alledgedly "incurable" disease that made my life harder. This was a plus in some ways because when you face adversity it has a tendency to toughen you.

I got saved in a charasmatic/church that was more experience based than many churches but nevertheless was a lot more intellectual/Bible exegesis based than many. I was somewhat stubborn but after a year of attending that church and after reading a introductory christian work called Evidence that Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell (which was a very big deal to me at the time) I became a Christian. Shortly afterwards, I did read several Christian apologetic works that were of a more introductory nature and a few of them were quite good in terms of some of their material. But obviously they were still introductory.

Now the church I got saved in had two pastors. One pastor called me "20 question Ken" . In short, I questioned my faith from day one. I even seriously considered walking away from by baptism because of my intense questioning.

I also had experienced at least one supernatural healing miracle that cannot be explained via natural explanation which made believing somewhat easier but was no cure all by any means.

I later graduated college but struggled for several years due to my illness and other reasons.

Soon after, I returned to get a second degree in computers but never graduated and health reasons played a part. During this time I took a course which spent half the semester attacking the Bible. I was known as "the bulldog" in this course by one student because I was the one who answered every objection publicly in class with the best answer I could. Yet the course had given "the bulldog" some licks to his faith. I had answered all the questions the professor had raised but I was not totally satisfied with the solutions. Eventually, I started to go to church intermittently with very long stretches of absence. Frankly rather than focus on all the answers I found, I had decided to dwell on the unanswered questions and not going to church was a bad idea. I also should have prayed more.

I did find a job I could do that I made pretty good money at finally yet my faith was still not the same.

Later this job ended due to a changing economy but the good thing is that it lead me to work for a sales/management training company which taught me the value of having a more positive attitude and to be absolutely persistent in the face of adversity. This attitude led me to search for a cure to my incurable disease which made things far easier for me once I was permanenty and completely healed (I prefer not to go into the details of the health condition I had. That part of my life is over).

At some point in my life, I started to research the faith matters more fully but of course when you research any subject you find more questions too. At some point I decided to be very tenacious and persistent. I searched and searched and searched and still did more researching. Along the way, I discovered the important principle of finding resources that could provide answers rather than rely on weaker or more introductory apologetic works. In short, I learned to be choosier.

My computer experience was helpful because it enabled me to do more effective internet searches although the internet has it problems in that internet material is often less researched and has more of a tendency to be errant. I started to gain more confidence because I was accumulating evidence but as I said before the more you know about something the more questions you develop. And as I said before I was a questioner from day one of being a Christian.

I also found out that "Evidence that Demands a Verdict" by Josh McDowell had a few factual errors in it. I was very surprised even shocked because it was the book I treasured like you so it was disappointing for sure but it was not a crushing defeat for Christianity in my mind at some level I knew it was an introductory work. At some point, perhaps soon or perhaps much later, I had found out that Evidence that Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell was definitely more of a christian apologetic primer designed for new believers and it definitely had its limitations.

At some point I became very confident in my faith although I had some remaining questions. This occurred because I was not willing to settle for poor answers to questions but researched my questions until I was satisfied. Some questions require persistence. I also think relying on the Holy Spirit can lead you to solutions.

I also started to engage in internet debating. I was a very tenacious debater but by the time progressed I became more easy going. Although I had taken logic 101 in college and related courses which make you a better reasoner (law, statistics, etc), I must say that internet debating teaches you via doing and you learn logical/historical fallacies etc. I also learned to question people and works which attack the Bible and invariably their attacks lose their teeth when they have to answer the tough questions.

There was a period of about 2 years where I focused like laser beam on researching Biblical and Christian matters.

I then read a book which made my mind more peaceful. It said that some people when they find bedrock to build their house/worldview are not satisfied. They want to blast beyond the bedrock and are never completely satisfied. In some ways I could see myself as the guy who wanted to keep digging. Ironically enough the book was co-authored by Josh McDowell although I cannot remember the co-author or title. I realized that no person is ever going to know everything in relation to Biblical matters because to do so you would have to be an expert in: Greek/Hebrew/ancient languages/ancient history/linguistics/all the natural sciences/theology/etc. In short, at some point you need to decide to have peace and rely on the good evidence and experience you have accumulated and not dwell on the things you do not know.

Then later I had found an answer to my last Bible question that was bugging me which made me have peace because I am not one to kid myself into believing something I sincerely have issues with but given my previous educational/work training I should have learned to focus less on the anomoly and more on the compelling evidence I had found. I have learned that anomolies to my faith have invariably been due without exception to my ignorance and as I learned more they disappeared. Life is a learning experience though and some bad habits you continue to do despite its unprodcutiveness (the question I had was regarding Acts 7:1- 16 [especially Acts 7: 16] The information is now availaible at this site by the way: http://www.tektonics.org/TK-LK.html ).

I can honestly say at this point I have peace as far as the solidness of Biblical Christianity. There is really nothing for me to dwell on now in terms of anonomolies to my faith that at least I am aware of! LOL


IMPORTANT QUESTIONS


I now have some helpful questions for those who may be in the process that I was in or who are looking at Christianity currently:

1. How many Christian apologetic works have you read?

2. What is the quality of the Christian apologetic works you have read? Are you trying to be a thoughtful Christian who can handle the tougher (requiring more knowledge) questions but relying on books merely designed for the introductory seeker?

3. Have you ever gone to a theological/seminary to resolve a question you have had regarding the Bible even though you are not a student (they do not check your student ID at the door and are open to the public)?

4. Could you tell me your 7 most favorite Christian Apologetic sites?

5. Are you over relying on your most favorite Christian Apologetic sites?

6. Have you ever approached a person who is very knowledgeable in Greek or Hebrew to answer a Bible question?

7. Have you ever written a Christian apologetic site and told them in a friendly way that you are not completely satisfied with their solution to a Bible question and offered to co-research it?


THE REASON I ASK THESE QUESTIONS

The reason I ask those questions is because this is the process I have used to answer my Bible questions. I think you cannot have it both ways in that if you want to be an intense questioner you should be willling to be an intense researcher. Thomas Edison said, "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." Of course, researching can be hard work. On the other hand, it is very satisfying to find a solution to questions particularly the tougher ones.


SOME RESOURCES


Here are some written sources for anyone who wishes to begin the journal of answering their question regarding Christianity:

Introductory works:

http://www.tektonics.org/books/arsenal.html

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~gbl111/books.htm (some of the books in the science department I do not agree with since I do not subscribe to Big Bang theory (see: http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=180 ).


Advanced works

http://www.tektonics.org/books/jaltusrec.html


Here are some helpful internet resources:

http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=180


Sincerely,

Ken
Crankitup
QUOTE(kendemyer @ Sep 28 2004, 09:50 AM)
I have some personal experiences to share with people that my be helpful to some. It does require me to give some personal background to give readers context. 

My personal experiences very briefly in childhood and high school was that I was book smart and so things came easily to me.  At the same time I had a alledgedly "incurable" disease that made my life harder.  This was a plus in some ways because when you face adversity it has a tendency to toughen you.

I got saved in a charasmatic/church that was more experience based than many churches but nevertheless was a lot more intellectual/Bible exegesis based than many.  I was somewhat stubborn but after a year of attending that church and after reading a introductory christian work called Evidence that Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell (which was a very big deal to me at the time)  I became a Christian.  Shortly afterwards, I did read several Christian apologetic works that were of a more introductory nature and a few of them were quite good in terms of some of their material. But obviously they were still introductory.

Now the church I got saved in had two pastors.  One pastor called me "20 question Ken" .  In short, I questioned my faith from day one.  I even seriously considered walking away from by baptism because of my intense questioning.

I also had experienced at least one supernatural healing miracle that cannot be explained via natural explanation which made believing somewhat easier but was no cure all by any means. 

I later graduated college but struggled for several years due to my illness and other reasons. 

Soon after, I  returned to get a second degree in computers but never graduated and health reasons played a part.  During this time I took a course which spent half the semester attacking the Bible.  I was known as "the bulldog" in this course by one student because I was the one who answered every objection publicly in class with the best answer I could.  Yet the course had given "the bulldog" some licks to his faith.  I had answered all the questions the professor had raised but I was not totally satisfied with the solutions. Eventually, I started to go to church intermittently with very long stretches of absence.  Frankly rather than focus on all the answers I found, I had decided to dwell on the unanswered questions and not going to church was a bad idea.  I also should have prayed more.

I did find a job I could do that I made pretty good money at finally yet my faith was still not the same. 

Later this job ended due to a changing economy but the good thing is that it lead me to work for a sales/management training company which taught me the value of having a more positive attitude and to be absolutely persistent in the face of adversity.  This attitude led me to search for a cure to my incurable disease which made things far easier for me once I was permanenty and completely healed (I prefer not to go into the details of the health condition I had. That part of my life is over).

At some point in my life, I started to research the faith  matters more fully but of course when you research any subject you find more questions too.  At some point I decided to be very tenacious and persistent.  I searched and searched and searched and still did more researching.  Along the way, I discovered the important principle of finding resources that could provide answers rather than rely on weaker or more introductory apologetic works.  In short, I learned to be choosier. 

My computer experience was helpful because it enabled me to do more effective internet searches although the internet has it problems in that internet material is often less researched and has more of a tendency to be errant. I started to gain more confidence because I was accumulating evidence but as I said before the more you know about something the more questions you develop.  And as I said before I was a questioner from day one of being a Christian.

I also found out that "Evidence that Demands a Verdict" by Josh McDowell had a few factual errors in it.  I was very surprised even shocked because it was the book I treasured like you so it was disappointing for sure but it was not a crushing defeat for Christianity in my mind at some level I knew it was an introductory work.  At some point, perhaps soon or perhaps much later, I had found out that Evidence that Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell was definitely more of a christian apologetic primer designed for new believers and it definitely had its limitations.

At some point I became very confident in my faith although I had some remaining questions.  This occurred because I was not willing to settle for poor answers to questions but researched my questions until I was satisfied.  Some questions require persistence.  I also think relying on the Holy Spirit can lead you to solutions.

I also started to engage in internet debating.  I was a very tenacious debater but by the time progressed I became more easy going.  Although I had taken logic 101 in college and related courses which make you a better reasoner (law, statistics, etc), I must say that internet debating teaches you via doing and you learn logical/historical fallacies etc.  I also learned to question people and works which attack the Bible and invariably their attacks lose their teeth when they have to answer the tough questions.

There was a period of about 2 years where I focused like laser beam on researching Biblical and Christian matters. 

I then read a book which made my mind more peaceful.  It said that some people when they find bedrock to build their house/worldview are not satisfied. They want to blast beyond the bedrock and are never completely satisfied.  In some ways I could see myself as the guy who wanted to keep digging.  Ironically enough the book was co-authored by Josh McDowell although I cannot remember the co-author or title.  I realized that no person is ever going to know everything in relation to Biblical matters because to do so you would have to be an expert in: Greek/Hebrew/ancient languages/ancient history/linguistics/all the natural sciences/theology/etc.  In short, at some point you need to decide to have peace and rely on the good evidence and experience you have  accumulated and not dwell on the things you do not know.

Then later I had found an answer to my last Bible question that was bugging me which made me have peace because I am not one to kid myself into believing something I sincerely have issues with but given my previous educational/work training I should have learned to focus less on the anomoly and more on the compelling evidence I had found.  I have learned that anomolies to my faith have invariably been due without exception to my ignorance and as I learned more they disappeared. Life is a learning experience though and some bad habits you continue to do despite its unprodcutiveness (the question I had was regarding Acts 7:1- 16 [especially Acts 7: 16]  The information is now availaible at this site by the way: http://www.tektonics.org/TK-LK.html ). 

I can honestly say at this point I have peace as far as the solidness of Biblical Christianity. There is really nothing for me to dwell on now in terms of anonomolies to my faith that at least I am aware of!  LOL


IMPORTANT QUESTIONS


I now have some helpful questions for those who may be in the process that I was in or who are looking at Christianity currently:

1. How many Christian apologetic works have you read?

2. What is the quality of the Christian apologetic works you have read?  Are you trying to be a thoughtful Christian who can handle the tougher (requiring more knowledge) questions but relying on books merely designed for the introductory seeker?

3. Have you ever gone to a theological/seminary to resolve a question you have had regarding the Bible even though you are not a student (they do not check your student ID at the door and are open to the public)?

4. Could you tell me your 7 most favorite Christian Apologetic sites?

5. Are you over relying on your most favorite Christian Apologetic sites?

6. Have you ever approached a person who is very knowledgeable in Greek or Hebrew to answer a Bible question?

7. Have you ever written a Christian apologetic site and told them in a friendly way that you are not completely satisfied with their solution to a Bible question and offered to co-research it?


THE REASON I ASK THESE QUESTIONS

The reason I ask those questions is because this is the process I have used to answer my Bible questions.  I think you cannot have it both ways in that  if you want to be an intense questioner you should be willling to be an intense researcher.  Thomas Edison said,  "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work."  Of course, researching can be hard work.  On the other hand, it is very satisfying to find a solution to questions particularly the tougher ones.


SOME RESOURCES


Here are some written sources for anyone who wishes to begin the journal of answering their question regarding Christianity:

Introductory works:

http://www.tektonics.org/books/arsenal.html

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~gbl111/books.htm (some of the books in the science department I do not agree with since I do not subscribe to Big Bang theory (see: http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=180 ).


Advanced works

http://www.tektonics.org/books/jaltusrec.html


Here are some helpful internet resources:

http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=180


Sincerely,

Ken
[right][snapback]2967[/snapback][/right]



Thanks for this post. Very encouraging.

I came to this site to post a question that has somewhat eroded my faith now for over a year. I have posted it in the 'Bible Questions' section. Your experience has encouraged me whilst I continue to seek answers to my questions.



L

Miki
Ken...This is the first time l've seen this!...One thing you said..

QUOTE
Along the way, I discovered the important principle of finding resources that could provide answers rather than rely on weaker or more introductory apologetic works.  In short, I learned to be choosier. 


Sometimes it's hard to know without reading the work first. I'm not very educated but l've found for myself that if the writer is to clinical it looses me. I find l give up and start looking for more personalized sources for information...
but all you guys are top busy reading books... tongue.gif biggrin.gif just kidding...

As Marcus use to say "You throw the bird up on the table and expect us to pluck it and prepare it for you too..

Thanks for the personal info. even if l'm a couple years late in reading it.
ingraceigo
I guess I have always felt the reassurance of God in my life, some of what I have seen in my life can only be from God. That said, I also believe it is very important to question,and to seek answers on everything, it helps to strengthen our faith journey and to assist others in their own journey!

There are so many resources out there to turn to...obviously the main one is biblical scripture from the holy book - however, scripture can be difficult to interpret and understand at times. That is when I feel true prayer for discernment and understanding comes in. God will lead us in finding the answers when we ask.

This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2008 Invision Power Services, Inc.