REV 7 (KJV)
2] And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
[3] Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
[4] And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

If God seals his servants then whose to say that the mark of the beast is actually a visual mark. Maybe it's spiritual. Nobody asks about the mark of God they only acknowledge the mark of the beast.

Both are on or "in" in this case, the forehead, the only differnce is the hand with the mark of the beast.

How are we to know the difference? anybody?

Yes it is visible and serves a two fold purpose. Those who see you during the great tribulation will think that you are sick and it will be apparent that you don't have anything that they want and they will leave you alone. And God has put it in their minds that way. The mark is Qorchah Machagoreth Saq (baldness and a girding of Sackcloth).

Charlie

I had noticed this in one of your earlier posts, and I wondered about it. Thanks for this explanation of why it would be that way.

Sorry to be the one to have to tell you this Jack. But the mark of the beast (or Nation as the messenger explained to daniel) is the doo on the head and the pen in the hand. It was there for you at birth and the leaders of the beast sent you to school to learn how to use it. You can't see it until you put the mark on paper to swear an oath to them.

Charlie

where does it say this? I'd like to check it out. But what's the "doo on the head"? i think it's an error?

The seal is given to men by angels the mark of the beast is given to men by other men. Wether or not the seal will be visible to other men is not known by me but the only ones it has to be visible to is the ones who are administering Gods wrath upon the earth.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Here is prophecy of how the mark is given to the sons of God and why.

ezek 9
1 Then He called out in my hearing with a loud voice, saying, "Let those who have charge over the city draw near, each with a deadly weapon in his hand."
2 And suddenly six men came from the direction of the upper gate, which faces north, each with his battle-ax in his hand. One man among them was clothed with linen and had a writer's inkhorn at his side. They went in and stood beside the bronze altar.
3 Now the glory of the God of Israel had gone up from the cherub, where it had been, to the threshold of the temple. And He called to the man clothed with linen, who had the writer's inkhorn at his side;
4 and the Lord said to him, "Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and cry over all the abominations that are done within it."

5 To the others He said in my hearing, "Go after him through the city and kill; do not let your eye spare, nor have any pity.
6 Utterly slay old and young men, maidens and little children and women; but do not come near anyone on whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary." So they began with the elders who were before the temple.
7 Then He said to them, "Defile the temple, and fill the courts with the slain. Go out!" And they went out and killed in the city.

The Lords two prophets come wearing the mark.
rev 11
and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth."

Isa 22
12 And in that day the Lord God of hosts Called for weeping and for mourning, For baldness and for girding with sackcloth.


Charlie

Interesting. Thank you for your insight.

We need to be careful in our definition of the mark. We have the New Testament mark 'in the forehead.' That could be baldness of the forehead. Whose forehead is not bald? We have a desciple with the marks of Jesus on the body. In the Old Testament, God put a MARK on Cain to keep him alive because he did something so bad that everybody wanted to kill him. But then there was Lamech who did the same thing Cain did, but God did not mark Lamech, he may have already had the mark because it says in Gen 4:24 'If Cain be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold.'

Ya, I am tending toward this direction because I read in Revelation where it says after a woe or trumpet or bowl that some terrible thing does not touch "those having the mark of God on their forehead". Christians don't walk around with a mark on their head and I really don't think anyone is going to force it to happen.

I have always believed the spiritual is necessarily followed by a symbolic physical....seems to be some type of God rule for a God reason....not my area to question. But it does and the mark physical in the Old Testement only foreshadows the mark spiritual (which they did not have because they did not have the Spirit living within at the time, they were saved by faith in a promise of God's future Plan).

But as far as the marking oneself to show that you have nothing anyone would want....Shy1, God is deffinatly leading THIS household in that direction. We are definately no the norm around here. We were always minimal, but now it is dowright sackcloth minimal....all at His leading. The thrift store I gave it all to loves me.

leia

Rev. 13:16 'And he caused all both small and great rich and poor free and bond to receive a MARK in their right hand or in their foreheads:'
Go to Rev. 16:2 'And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth: and there fell a noisome and grevious sore upon the men which had the MARK of the beast, and them which worshipped his image.'
Both MARKs here are engravings or impressions which would be some sort of tatoo. Rev. 14:11 is the same thing. Think of Aushewitz and the extermination camps. (That was just a thought that entered my head and I put it down)

Psalm 37:37 'MARK the perfect man and behold the upright for the end of that man is peace.' Here it means 'put a hedge around.' Ps. 130:3 is the same.

Romans 16:17 'MARK them ' means to pay attention to, observe. Phil. 3:17 is the same.

You have, 'Press on to the MARK of the calling' which is a sign placed to signify the end or, I guess, in this case it would be the beginning. Like you are running the race to see who will reach the point to where you would be the first to be called. Sort of like starting a business and being the first one to start it so you would have no competition for awhile at least.

Charlie, pretend I'm a little, dense, because I am, lol! What do you mean about the doo on the head? We're born with hair, yes, but how is that the mark of the beast, and how does that serve the beast? Could you explain the statement above a little more for me? If we're born with the mark of the beast, do we have any chance?!? How do we swear an oath on paper? Are you thinking of a specific act of writing, or just several general ideas? I don't want to assume that I understand what you mean. I can guess, but I don't like guessing. Thanks,
Debbie

Hi Charlie!

How about some scripture for that one? To me anyway, since God says something really bad will happen to you if you accept the mark of the beast He'd want you to know what it is. The bible is full of explanations and warnings and the like, so it doesn't make sense to me to think that we can just make-up what the mark is. I would think the bible would explain it in advance.

Gabriel actually told Daniel the mark is your hairdoo and a pen in your hand? I need some help understanding this!!

For sure. The word for mark in the oldest writings is (cavragma). It is only used eight times in the writings of scripture so I go to a different place to learn what the word truly means and not what the flesh of men want it to mean. Here is the word used in the Acts.

King James
Acts 17
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone,[ graven(cavragma)] by art and man's device.

New American Standard
Acts 17
29 Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something [ shaped (cavragma)] by art and man's devising.

Complete Jewish Bible
Acts 17
29 So, since we are children of God, we shouldn't suppose that God's essence resembles gold, silver or stone [shaped(cavragma)] by human technique and imagination.

Webster's Bible Translation
Acts 17
29Being then the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like to gold, or silver, or stone [graven (cavragma)] by art and man's device.

New World
Acts 17
29 Since we are God's children, you must not think that God is like something that people imagine or [make(cavragma)] from gold, silver, or rock

The Holman Christian Standard Bible
Acts 17
29 Being God's offspring, then, we shouldn't think that the divine nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image [fashioned(cavragma)] by human art and imagination.

Fashioned, carved, made, shaped, sculpted, formed. So you see the original word for mark is the result of an action. The signature is an action required by all nations to secure your oath to them. The sculpting of the hair on your head is also the result of an action required by those of your nation who teach you to be beastly beautiful for the glory of the flesh. Looking like and acting like those of your perspective nation as described by the messenger of the Lord to Daniel. The fact that the Lord removes this kind of activity from the earth is also a good scriptural indicator.

Isaiah 3
24 And so it shall be: Instead of a sweet smell there will be a stench; Instead of a sash, a rope; Instead of well-set hair, baldness; Instead of a rich robe, a girding of sackcloth; And branding instead of beauty.


Charlie

Sounds Greek to me!!

Actually charlie..one small correction... it is: CHARAGMA

Another interesting point that a fellow member posted on here a while back is that it can also mean to prick or stick.......

Digital Angel....hmmm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The English word mark (Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, No. 5480) is from the Greek word charagma (pronounced Khar'-ag-mah). Charagma is connected by The Expanded Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words to stigma, Strong's No. 4742, in which Strong's references stigma back to the Greek word stizo, then defines stizo as follows:
. . . to prick, stick, incise, or punch for recognition of ownership. . . Scar of service: a mark

Editing in....Has anyone every plugged Walmart into Gematria numbers? Miki?
It equals 666.....joking.

Not so Marta
Charagma is the transliterated word in old Latin from the ancient Greek word caragma. And Caragma in the Greek meaning is an unused picturesque word that tells the story of being grasped, tubular and pressed in or down. You need to check out your Strongs again and find out what the original word was. Then throw that Strongs away and find a pre 1974 Strongs when they had the real meaning in them and had not changed to popular opinion for book sales.


Charlie

Good question regarding physical mark. Certainly all would agree that God doesn't need a physical mark to know who is marked and who is not. Maybe it will be physical but would it have to be? Could it be as simple as having to make a declaration that "God has no Son" every time you buy groceries, punch into work, or even get pulled over for a routine traffic stop? Or perhaps even as a greeting. It worked this easy during the reformation. Read Fox's Book of the Martyrs (every Christian should) to get an idea as to how it worked back then, and how easy it works today in countries like the Sudan or Nigeria or Cambodia. Nationals are simply asked if they are Christians. If the answer is yes, then they are beheaded in Afganistan and ever so "civilized" Saudi Arabia - in the Sudan maybe crucified on crosses, beheaded or the "lucky" lones only getting their hands or feet cut off.

Was Cain marked physically? I don't know.
Gen 4:15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

Why, l wonder, was there such a punishment for taking his life when Old Testament law was so ridged?

[quote=jason benoit,Mar 3 2006, 10:40 AM]
REV 7 (KJV)
2] And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
[3] Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
[4] And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

If God seals his servants then whose to say that the mark of the beast is actually a visual mark. Maybe it's spiritual. Nobody asks about the mark of God they only acknowledge the mark of the beast.

Both are on or "in" in this case, the forehead, the only differnce is the hand with the mark of the beast.

How are we to know the difference? anybody?
*******************************************************************
And the Lord set a MARK upon Cain lest any finding him should kill him.
(Remember logic: 1, 2, 3)
Then we have the flood, everything and everybody except eight people were destroyed, and Jehovah tells Noah after the flood,
'And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth . . .' That is the MARK, the fear and the dread that is upon every beast of the field.
The SEAL of the Living God is LIFE.
The Mark is not visible, but you can SEE the Seal.
You have the head, which could be called Adam,
and the forehead which could be called the power of Adam, so
the sealing of the servants of God in their foreheads could mean
Giving Life to the power of Adam.
Remember, flesh is enmity against God; Eve is the flesh.
The hand has to do with the use of the power.
In Job, Satan was given the power over everything belonging to man, but on the man, the head of the woman, he could not lay a hand.
In Job, Satan said to God, 'Put forth thy hand now and touch all that he has and he will curse you to your face.'
In Genesis, God said 'lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life . . .'
Jesus sits at the right hand of God in power.
Jesus Christ is the power of God. Jesus Christ overcame the power of Satan, who is the deceiver.

[quote=Marta,Mar 26 2006, 09:30 PM]
Sounds Greek to me!!

Actually charlie..one small correction... it is: CHARAGMA

Another interesting point that a fellow member posted on here a while back is that it can also mean to prick or stick.......

Digital Angel....hmmm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The English word mark (Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, No. 5480) is from the Greek word charagma (pronounced Khar'-ag-mah). Charagma is connected by The Expanded Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words to stigma, Strong's No. 4742, in which Strong's references stigma back to the Greek word stizo, then defines stizo as follows:
. . . to prick, stick, incise, or punch for recognition of ownership. . . Scar of service: a mark

Editing in....Has anyone every plugged Walmart into Gematria numbers? Miki?
It equals 666.....joking.


**********************************************************
666 is the number of a man and all men shop at Wal-Mart. Marta, CHARAGMA could be traced from the word charisma which is an unseen force that draws. Jehovah told Noah that the fear and the dread of man is upon every beast of the field, the air, and the swimming creatures. The MARK is the CHARISMA.

'man' is quite different from 'a man'. I have heard that the 'a' is often left out of scripture and is inserted incorrectly in translation. It could make quite a difference, could it not? The Word was God translated into The Word was a God?

Have you heard that there was a trial run of a major hurricane drill just the other day? They are getting ready for the season. They actually put tracers into the mock dispersed population so that they could track of where they went and could find them again.....

Spoooooooooky!

leia

If God seals his servants then whose to say that the mark of the beast is actually a visual mark. Maybe it's spiritual.

CONSIDER THE WORLD WE LIVE IN……………… A CASHLESS SOCIETY IS AT THE DOOR………… I CAN STEAL YOUR IDENITY……………WIPE YOU OUT……………………WITH YOUR CREDIT CARDS AND S.S.#.
EASILY……………………..

PERSONAL CHECKS……………….. CAN BE WASHED AND REWRITTEN…………TO HIGHER AMOUNTS………..EASY …….THEY RECOMMEND YOU NEVER USE GEL INK………….FOR THAT PURPOSE.

UNCLE SAM LIKES TO TAX YOU………………..TO THE PENNY.
HOW CAN HE …………..WHEN YOU CAN WORK UNDER THE TABLE FOR A FEW BUCKS HERE AND THERE? HIDDEN PROFITS UNTAXED.

THAT MONEY IS IN YOUR POCKET AND UNTAXED……………

THE BEST WAY TO TAX TO THE PENNY AND NOT CHEAT UNCLE SAM
IS TO HAVE A CASHLESS SOCIETY………………..
NATURALLY ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,YOU WILL BE SOLD ON ……
…..ITS BETTER FOR YOU………
HEY……YOU CANT HAVE YOUR IDENTITY STOLEN FROM YOU.

SO WE ALL WIN………………….. OR DO WE?

YOU EVOLVE INTO AUTO CHECK DEPOSIT SYSTEMS………
..
AUTO PAYMENT DRAFT SYSTEMS………
.
ATM MACHINES NO LONGER OFFER CASH…………….THEY OFFER RECEPTS OF BALANCE AS TO YOUR ACCOUNT.

WHAT WENT IN ON WHAT DATE……………….WHAT CAME OUT AND TO WHOM ON WHAT DATE.

IN A ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT SYSTEM……………… ALL FALLING INTO A CASHLESS SOCIETY………………….

THE CHIP………………….IN THE BACK OF YOUR HAND OR YOUR FOREHEAD……………….. CHOICE HERE………..AND CONSIDER SOME OF US DO NOT HAVE HANDS OR ARMS…………..
BUT WE ALL HAVE HEAD OR WE WOULD NOT BE HERE.

THE CHIP WITH OUR IDENTIY ANYTHING THERE IS TO KNOW OF US IS RECORDED IN THE CHIP……………. WE WAVE IT………..AT THE SHOPS OF OUR CHOICE…………..

THE ATM…………… ANYWERE………………
IT WILL OPEN AND CLOSE DOORS………………. FREE FROM THEIVES ……………WE CAN NOT LOOSE IT………………… IT IS WITH US ………………….

THE MARK OF THE BEAST IS A CHIP………..HIS NUMBER WILL BE BEFORE YOUR S.S.#

COMPUTTERS RUN AT SUPPER SPEED ON 666………………. IT IS A TWO FOLD PURPOSE………… THE SPEED OF WHICH COMPURTER WILL RUN………AND PROCESS INFORMATION…….( look up Terri grid. I think that is the spelling……….if anyone knows of it please do post on it…….it is the brain computer of the end times…………….. It talks of speed of 666.)

The mark of the beast is visual………….. We will be scanned…………… it is not difficult to phantom……………. Being aware of technology in the light of the day we live in.

The mark of the Lord is unseen……………………. It is salvation……………Salvation is unseen……………… Once saved not only do we have our names written in the Lambs Book of Life………….

WE ARE MARKED FOR JESUS……………..UNSEEN TO US……………YET SEEN TO DEVILS AND ANGELS…………. GOD KNOWS HIS OWN.
TO THE POWERS AND PRINCIPALITIES WE ARE MARKED AS IN WASHED IN THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB.

PRAISE JESUS………….FOR HIS SAVING GRACE…………

I believe the devil has to mark his people with a sign he can see.

After all, he is spiritually blind!

I think both sides of the issue are correct here when put together. The mark of the beast is a spiritual mark that will ultimately manifest in the physical realm. The spiritual side is that those that take this mark will do so because they have there faith, love and trust in man and the love of money were Christ's servants have there faith and love and hope in Him. I think those that look to only the physical sign of this mark miss the important spiritual root that would cause many to take the mark. Those that look here only at the spiritual will miss it at its physical manifestation. The truth is both sides are correct when viewed in balance.

Okay, could someone fill me in?? The only mark I've heard of is that of the beast...What is the other mark you talk about and what purpose does it serve??? I'm just confused, sorry...

As Satan has a physical Mark on his own................... {I must add here....the blindness to his mark being non physical will be a fall for many}{this is also a part of His tool} {we must beware}

Satan in not omnipresent................ He does not have the power of Jesus.......
Unlike God Satan needs all the tools man has to offer to keep track of us.
Along with his demons…………..

Satellite…………
Scanners……….
X-ray eyes……….. The police have these…….the ability to see through any dwelling and know where all are located within.

The chip or the mark………… is a tracking device……………..
He will know where we are……………….

God does not need man made tools …………to find us or know what we are up to.

The mark of God is a spiritual one…………………. When you are Saved…………
You are sealed and marked………………. UNSEEN ………………God sees it…….
Demons see it…………Angels see it…………..
Man can only know you are saved by the change in you………..

Satan needs materialistic things to accomplish his mission……….
God does not.

During the bondage of the Jewish people when they were release
from bondage of Egypt...they commemorated their freed om with the
Passover as God proscribed...they were taken out of the way from the
the killling of the people because of Pharoah. The angel with the
inkhorn writes a letter on the people that are of God...and the people
that are not of God are marked with blood...because they are of the
lawless one and he has blood on his hands. The children written with
a mark in ink are written in the Book of Life...

Blessings,
Signet

Exodus 12:7
And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.

Ok what do ya think of this one?

Physical action..........not on a body but.......... a visible marking that the Lord would pass over.... Hence no death in this dwelling.

Exodus 12:23
For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.

The Lord knew who was to die and who was not........... yet.......... he required some sort of action on the behalf of the believers.

Jesus when he performed miracles of healing usually required some action on the receiver’s part:

Jesus could have filled the vessels to the brim with wine.
Others were told to fill them with water first.
Lepers were told to wash.
At the tomb Jesus could have rolled away the stone with a word.
He told others to roll away the stone.
Jesus could have opened his hand and produced a coin to pay taxes.
Go fishing.



So I’m thinking that this is a critical decision we will make.
Could the Lord want to see some action in a physical sense....
Something like:
Take yourself to the center that injects the chip.
Or take yourself to the guillotine.
Will it require an action on our part first?

God Bless

I'm new to the Christian-Forum and this is my first reply. Sorry I came in so late on this topic. However, The Bible is very clear that only 144,00 Jews will be sealed by God in the End-Time. There will be no mistaking which "mark" or seal to take because there will only be one "mark" or seal available. The seal of God will be given to His elect; not offered to anyone for the taking. Another key is that The mark of the Beast will not be optional for those who wish to continue operating in the economy. (i.e. buy, sale, work, travel, etc.)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Things you should research and lookout for:

The real ID act A.K.A The National I.D. card coming in 2008 Nationwide.
RFID (radio frequency Identification) Small ID chip implanted under the skin.
United Nations. yup, the one-world Government (anti-christ) mentioned in the Bible has been here for some time now and plans to complete its' missions by 2015

Stay ready!
God bless

http://gdtr.topcities.com/life/mark.html

The mark of God is given by the man with the Ink Horn at his side.


1 Then He called out in my hearing with a loud voice, saying, "Let those who have charge over the city draw near, each with a deadly weapon in his hand."
2 And suddenly six men came from the direction of the upper gate, which faces north, each with his battle-ax in his hand. One man among them was clothed with linen and had a writer's inkhorn at his side. They went in and stood beside the bronze altar.
3 Now the glory of the God of Israel had gone up from the cherub, where it had been, to the threshold of the temple.And He called to the man clothed with linen, who had the writer's inkhorn at his side;
4 and the Lord said to him, "Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and cry over all the abominations that are done within it."
5 To the others He said in my hearing, "Go after him through the city and kill; do not let your eye spare, nor have any pity.
6 Utterly slay old and young men, maidens and little children and women; but do not come near anyone on whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary." So they began with the elders who were before the temple.
7 Then He said to them, "Defile the temple, and fill the courts with the slain. Go out!" And they went out and killed in the city.
8 So it was, that while they were killing them, I was left alone; and I fell on my face and cried out, and said, "Ah, Lord God! Will You destroy all the remnant of Israel in pouring out Your fury on Jerusalem?"
9 Then He said to me, "The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceedingly great, and the land is full of bloodshed, and the city full of perversity; for they say, 'The Lord has forsaken the land, and the Lord does not see!'
10 And as for Me also, My eye will neither spare, nor will I have pity, but I will recompense their deeds on their own head."
11 Just then, the man clothed with linen, who had the inkhorn at his side, reported back and said, "I have done as You commanded me."