"God rarely reveals exact dates for future events, therefore everyone should be very sceptical of such things."

I agree with that Maz. God is a God of patterns. While we do not know what God will do exactly when He does it- usually when something does happen- we can look back and KNOW that it occured exactly (to the second) of when it was supposed to and when He promised.

I agree, there is good evidence to support the statement God causes the same thing to happen over and over again... making it easy to "know the season" of things. Just as the fig tree blossoms every spring, the same things happen in nations before their demise:
laziness (foreigners running and owning businesses)
unwilling to serve in the army, recruitment of foreigners, etc..
separation between rich and poor
separation between "fair and just" and reality

Nevertheless, I have seen prophecies about exact day and exact hour come true. See: Dumitru Duduman and how an angel told him he would leave Romania, giving exact month, day and hour.

DON'T PUT ANY LIMITS ON GOD!

I appreciate you guys and this space. Keep on!

yep I agree too....one of the seven miqra..but then again, that's really not a date set.


Jeep

What about date guessing

Yes!

And note that I didn't say "never," but I said "rarely". The problem is that people tends to think that they can make crazy predictions with impunity on a forum because their reputation is not at stake since they can just move on to another fourm. Thus the need for the warning.

we can know the season- we can even know the year. but as for a specific date- well my thinking is this- if i were to say Christ will return july 31, 2006 at noon time- well there would be a big problem with it for this very reason- i am using a gregorian calendar rather then Gods calendar for one- then july 31st might really be a day forward or a day backward if you live on another continent, then we have time zones on top of that.
the bible says we will not know the day or the hour.........nothing more. we cannot possibly know the day or the hour because of our times and calendar situation.

I'm not very good with numbers but this was interesting.


'After two days, He will revive us' - Hal Lindsey - WorldNetDaily.com - www.halllindsey.com

For some of my readers, this commentary may seem strange. But weigh carefully what is reported before forming an opinion.

In the 1650s, an Anglican bishop named James Ussher published his "Annals of the World," subtitled, "The Origin of Time, and Continued to the Beginning of the Emperor Vespasian's Reign and the Total Destruction and Abolition of the Temple and Commonwealth of the Jews."

It was a ponderous title, but Ussher's work was a ponderous book. First published in Latin, it consisted of more than 1,600 pages.

Bishop Ussher was no ordinary man, but one who was unmistakably blessed with incredible intelligence and insight that he devoted entirely to the study of God's Word. (By age 26, Ussher was chairman of the Divinity Department at Dublin University.)

While that in and of itself would be worthy of a lifetime achievement award, Ussher went on to full professorship, served as vice-chancellor of Trinity College twice, and, by age 44, was elevated to the rank of archbishop of Armagh, the highest position in the Irish Anglican Church.

The point is that Bishop Ussher was not just a smart man. He was an intellectual giant who used his God-given gifts to advance the understanding of God's Word.

Bishop Ussher's "Annals of the World" begins at the point of creation, which he determined was Oct. 23, 4004 B.C.

Ussher's arrival at the date of Oct. 23 was determined based on the fact that most peoples of antiquity, especially the Jews, started their calendar at harvest time.

Ussher concluded there must be good reason for this, so he chose the first Sunday following autumnal equinox.

Although the autumnal equinox is Sept. 21 today, that is only because of historical calendar-juggling to make the years come out right.

In September 1752, 11 days were dropped to bring the calendar back in line with the seasons. Another day was dropped at the beginning of the 19th and 20th century for the same reason.

Amazingly, Ussher's calculations, made centuries before these adjustments, are vindicated by them. Pretty impressive stuff for a guy working by candlelight centuries before the advent of a calculator.

The reason Ussher's work is so accurate was because he relied solely on Scripture as his source of information.

Ussher arrived at the date of 4004 B.C. by taking known dates in history, and calculating backward by using the chronologies of Genesis Chapters 5 and 11 and working backward. The calculations themselves were so complicated that, in the original documents, they covered more than 100 pages.

Notes Larry Pierce of the "Online Bible":

Astrogeophysicist Dr John Eddy, who was at the time solar astronomer at the High Altitude Observatory at Boulder, Colorado, made some revealing comments at a symposium in 1978, as reported in Geotimes, Vol. 23, September 1978, p. 18.

There is no evidence based solely on solar observations, Eddy stated, that the Sun is 4.5-5 x 109 years old. "I suspect," he said, "that the Sun is 4.5-billion years old. However, given some new and unexpected results to the contrary, and some time for frantic recalculation and theoretical readjustment, I suspect that we could live with Bishop Ussher's value for the age of the Earth and Sun. I don't think we have much in the way of observational evidence in astronomy to conflict with that."

We're all watching our planet and human culture heading into what looks, for all intents and purposes, the early stages of impending demise.

There are daily, breathless reports about the disintegrating environment, global warming, strange weather patterns, unusual solar activity, together with constant revisions of previously accepted scientific "facts" about the universe and how it works.

The global social structure upon which civilization is built – the family – is under attack from every direction. The war on terror is, in reality, a clash of cultures – both natural and spiritual – with the forces of Islam squaring off against Judeo-Christian culture.

The very fabric of human civilization is being rent and torn before our eyes. It is difficult, at this juncture in history, to foresee how it will survive the onslaught. No nation, seemingly, is exempt from the threat.

Recently, a Senate committee calculated a 70 percent probability, for example, of an attack against the United States with a weapon of mass destruction within the next 10 years. Given our own nuclear capability, any retaliatory response by the United States could destroy civilization as we know it.

Using Bishop Ussher's calculations, the Prophet Hosea lived from 3197 to 3246, or, 808 to 759 B.C. Ussher's dating is expressed in standard years, although he worked from the perspective of the ancient calendar of 12 months of 30 days each. At the end of each year, the ancients tacked on five days, and every four years they added six days.

The prophet Hosea wrote, "Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for He hath torn, and He will heal us; He hath smitten, and He will bind us up. After two days will He revive us; in the third day He will raise us up, and we shall live in His sight" (Hosea 6:1-2).

Further on, the prophet predicted; "Also, O Judah, He hath set an harvest for thee, when I returned the captivity of My people" (6:11).

The Jews of the tribe of Judah were "revived" on May 15, 1948, the day the world officially recognized the existence of the state of Israel. Since then, little pockets of Jews, members of the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel, have been discovered in various places and repatriated to their ancient cultures and homeland.

Hosea began with the promise of God that "He will heal us and bind us up" – a promise that was fulfilled with the Crucifixion and Resurrection of the Messiah Jesus.

With the extension of the Perfect Sacrifice for sins that washed away the sins of all men ("by the righteousness of One the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life," Romans 5:18).

We date our own calendar counting forward from Christ. So does God, which brings us back to Hosea's prophecy. "After two days will He revive us, and in the third day, raise us up," writes the prophet.

Twice in Scripture, God reveals His own reckoning of time. "For a thousand years in Thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night" (Psalms 90:4).

"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day" (2nd Peter 3:8).

Our calendar dates the birth of Christ as Year One. It doesn't much matter if Jesus was born somewhere between 6 BC and 6 AD, given the subsequent manipulation of the various calendars to make them come out right.

Based entirely in Scripture, Ussher's calculation of creation as being 4,004 years before Christ isn't based on the year of Christ's birth. Hosea's prophecy is.

Ussher took the known date of Nebuchadnezzar's death as the benchmark from which he launched his backward journey through time, using scriptural chronology to move both forward and backward in his calculations.

I hope I haven't lost you with all the numbers – it makes me a bit dizzy as I work through them myself. (Bishop Ussher was certainly an intelligent man. Even with a calculator, I have trouble going through all this.)

According to Bishop Ussher, the last time Israel marked its God-mandated Jubilee Year was the Year 4030 from the date of Creation, which would correspond to our A.D. 26. Using Ussher's calculations, therefore, the Year 2005 dates 6,009 years forward from the date of creation.

And there is a 12-year gap of uncertainty between the Anno Domini calendar and the literal date of His First Advent.

Jesus said that "ye know not what hour your Lord doth come," and I believe Him. So I am not setting a date for either the rapture or His second coming. But Hosea said that Israel's revival would come after two days.

It was restored politically in 1948, just before the conclusion of the 'two days' since the birth of Christ, but Ezekiel's chronology says that the political revival is only the first stage of Israel's "revival."

"And I looked, and behold, sinews were on them, and flesh grew and skin covered them; but there was no breath in them." (Ezekiel 37:8, NKJ) The Hebrew word translated "breath" is "ruwach," a word that primarily means "spirit," particularly in this context about "spiritual animation."

Israel is physically alive, but, to this moment, it is corporately spiritually dead. That "quickening" of the spirit is accomplished by faith in Christ ("And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins." Ephesians 2:1, NKJ).

So, to return to Hosea, we find the prophecy that after two days, Israel will be revived, but in the third day, they will be "quickened" so that Israel might "live in His sight."

Israel's physical revival has been an ongoing process for 57 years as the world's Jews, including members of the Ten Lost Tribes, are being re-gathered to the land of Israel. Ezekiel's prophecy of Israel's redemption process is almost complete.

No matter how one approaches it, either by accepting Ussher's calculations from creation, or accepting our calendar reckoning of time since the birth of Christ, the conclusion is inescapable.

Hosea said of the Jews, "after two days will He revive us, and in the third day ... we will live in His sight."

Peter says that "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9).

It is clear that God is extending His "grace period" (the Church Age of Grace) to give all men one last chance to accept the gift of pardon that He extends to them, but it is equally clear that His patience is being rapidly exhausted.

How much longer will He wait before returning for His Church and effecting Israel's national redemption at the conclusion of the Tribulation Period?

Given the 12-year gap, we are somewhere between four years before and eight years into Hosea's Third Day.

I don't believe we can calculate the Jesus' sudden coming for His Church, because Jesus said no man could know the day or the hour.

But He did say, "So, you too, when you see all these things [the predicted signs], recognize that He is near, right at the door" (Matthew 24:33). He is very near, indeed!

Maranatha!

Yes Miki I agree with this view!

I had posted a response to a topic that Maz had posted back in March

Hey,

Just thought I'd also add this verse to chew on as well. I feel it goes right along with what you are talking about. Hosea 6:1 & 2Come, and let us return unto the Lord: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up. 2 After two days will he revive us; in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. Another scripture that I have looked at also along these same lines is John 4. Where Jesus is talking with the woman at the well. In vs 40 it says,So when the Samaritans were come unto him, they besought him that he would tarry with them: and he abode there two days Then in vs 43 it says that he departed after 2 days and went to Galilee. I feel this is also a reference to Jesus coming to the Gentiles for 2 days then returning to the Jewish people at the end. I also heard one time that the 1st 2000 years God dealt as the Father in the Scriptures, and you see him dealing with the fathers Adam, Noah Abraham. The 2nd 2000 years God dealt with the sons, 12 sons of Jacob, and at the close of the years Jesus the son was born. The last 2000 years the Holy Spirit has been here and dealt in this capacity. Then on the 7th day or 7000 we will see Him as ONE!


Yes I agree that exact date setting should be avoided but, the scripture says
no man knows the day or the hour! It say nothing about the season, year?

Here is the topic that Maz started:

http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=4707&hl=

Your Friend in Christ,
Valerie

Messiahiscoming

Thanks Val...Yes this topic has been discussed several times.

But l liked this...I hadn't noticed it this way before. As l began reading it the first thing that popped into my mind was Ephraim. (Samaritans) Thanks

Shekel,

I am sorry you feel this way and use your position to limit the Holy Spirit and God's Word. You misquote the bible when you say "no one know the time" of our Lord's return. What it says it no one knows the "day or the hour" except the father in heaven, but we should know the season of his return... the general time. In fact he personally gives us a list of signs to look for at His 2nd coming in Matthew 24. What was His point of telling us those signs if we are not to look for His coming?

Secondly, you are mistaken again because there were people (Magi... learned men) that were able to determine His first coming and Jesus Himself chastised the religious leaders of the day for not recognizing his first coming (Matt 16:1-4)... another words they had enough information. The Lord told Daniel exactly when he would die... to the day and I can prove it.

The first of Nisan (3303 A.M.) in 458 B.C. was when Ezra offically left to go to Jerusalem (Ezra 7:8). This was March 9th, 458 B.C. (http://www.abdicate.net/cal.aspx). However Ezra really didn't leave until the 12th of Nisan after getting things together (Ezra 8:31). This would have been March 21th (Vernal Equinox) and the day Artaxerxes gave him the the Decree mentioned in Daniel's Seventy Sevens to aid him in his journy through the Persian Empire. We need to start counting 69 weeks of years... or 483 prophetic years from this date until the Messiah is "cut off". But prophetic years are 360 day years and not 365.25 day years or more accurately 365.2421199 day years and we need to make an adjustment to account for this. Since the prophecy was given from God's perspective we need to adjust these years into 365 day years so we can compare this prophecy to actual history. Therefore, 483 prophetic years are actually 483 X (365.2421199/360) or 490.03318 earth-years... or 490 years and 13 days.

Adding this time to the 12th of Nisan (March 21, 458 B.C.) gives us Friday, April 3, 33 B.C. as the exact date of Jesus' crucifixion! Those that use the word of God as being completely true know this to be the day of our Lord's death!

thanks..........interesting, but a Friday crucifixcion doesn't give us the required 3 days and 3 nights.
read Jonah...........Jonah said 3 days and 3 nights

No it does not. But no time does... Curious are you not? If you want to believe that 3 days and 3 nights mean 72 hours then your belief is incorrect. The Passover was on a Sabbath in the year Christ was crucified. Furthermore the Passover itself is a Sabbath day as well. In no year do the Jews allow 2 successive Sabbaths for the observance of the Passover.

Isaac Newton records in "Observations Upon the Prophecies of Daniel and the Apocalypse of St. John",

"...Equinox which fell on the same day, and for having a fitter time for harvest, on Thursday Apr. 22. also in the year 35, on Tuesday Apr. 12. and in the year 36, on Saturday March 31. But because the 15th and 21st days of Nisan, and a day or two of Pentecost, and the 10th, 15th, and 22d of Tisri, were always sabbatical days or days of rest, and it was inconvenient on two sabbaths together to be prohibited burying their dead and making ready fresh meat, for in that hot region their meat would be apt in two days to corrupt: to avoid these and such like inconveniences, the Jews postponed their months a day, as often as the first day of the month Tisri, or, which is all one, the third of the month Nisan, was Sunday, Wednesday or Friday: and this rule they called Adu, by the letters * signifying the numbers 1, 4, 6; that is, the 1st, 4th, and 6th days of the week; which days we call Sunday, Wednesday and Friday."

and he does not dispute, but concurs the Passover was on a Friday as was believed by early Christian historians which he further quotes. He further quotes many early historians that record the birth of Christ in the year 2 B.C. and not some other year that Theologians want you to believe. They incorrectly cite a Josephus translation that speculated the year of Herod's death in 4 B.C. which was based on eclipse data based on 18th century astronomy and a writer that had no Astronomy training!

Christ died around the 9th hour of the day (3pm) and rose at sunrise (7am) the day after the Sabbath. This gives 40 hours only with my version and 64 hours with yours. Hmm... Do you think Christ was in the tomb around 64 hours or 40 hours... The three days represent: Friday (day 1.. the day of death... the 6th day of the week... man's number), Saturday (day 2... the day of rest... the day we are told to rest) and Sunday (3rd day... the 8th day?... a new beginning... the first day). Which days to you suppose he died and rose on? Do they support this kind of symbolism?

Actually, Christ died after 3 months, on the 3rd day (April 3) in the year 33 A.D. at 3 pm, 3 hours before the end of the Jewish day, after 3 hours of light and 3 hours of darkness (6 hours on the cross) at the age of 33! Hmm.... and the Hold Spirit came on the 66th day of the Jewish New Year too.

thanks,

your post went over my head,,,,,,,,,,i'm just a simple plow-boy

3 days and 3 nights is very easy to understand and believe.............Christ died on Thursday afternoon,,,,,,,,and rose on Sunday morning about dawn.

Thursday afternoon (a part of a day) counts as "a day"

thurs, friday, sat are the 3 days
thurs nite, fri nite, sat nite are the 3 nites

friday was Passover (Passover sabbath, holy day of convocation, special sabbath)
Saturday was regular (weekly) Sabbath
2 Sabbaths , back to back

There are never 2 sabbaths back to back for the Passover... just ask any Jew/Rabbi. You can check any calendar on the internet (there are many) that goes back in time all the way to 1 A.D. and at no time in the past 2007 years was there a Passover on Friday... that was what I was trying to tell you. Sorry.

i believe in the "3 days and 3 nites"

To each his own. I cannot make anyone see the truth that refuses to search further, but I respect your conviction. Those in Columbus' time believed the world was flat, but it did not make is so... and those that do not believe in Christ, or the Devil, the antichrist, God, can believe what they want, but that does not make it so. But I did notice that you believe in Christ's return and if you do, then surely you believe He is your personal Savior and in the end that is all that matters... the rest of these discussions are nothing more than excercises in man intellect. God bless you and keep studying the word... for the Holy Spirirt speaks the truth to those with open hearts. Have a good day.

Firstly, it is our (the moderators and myself) responsibly to oversee the forum so that it does not degenerate into chaos.

Secondly, your assessment about the decree to Ezra is mostly correct, (assuming your exact number is calculating a lunar year, that is Nisan 12 458BC to Nisan 12 AD 33. But I will not bicker about a few days!

However, what you fail to mention is that there were four decrees that bible students were pondering at that time as being the decree that commenced this 490-year countdown (or 483 years to AD 26, the start of His ministry if traditional AD 30 date is correct, so that He died in the middle of this last "week" according to Dan. 12.)

The four decrees were in 538, 519, 458, and 445 BC. So which one was it?

We know now which of the four decrees it was, but back then God left it uncertain because He did not want people setting the exact date, but only the general time period. So your argument actually runs against yourself.

Did God make a mistake in there being four potential decrees as the terminus ad quem?

No, if you take the average of those above four dates you arrive at 490 BC in agreement with Dan. 9 and Rev. 12.

A coincidence?

I think not. It is God's way of saying that all four decrees were on purpose and in His plan. Why? To teach us to not set dates but to give room for God to do things His way!

About the grand sceme of the jubilees, please see my acticle...

http://www.1260-1290-days-bible-prophecy.o...ng-Sabbaths.htm

Note that I use the dates commonly used by modern scholars as contained in most study bibles and books. Therefore, my work is without manipulation of the facts.

Do not worry... this will be my last day visiting your website. As I told you in the E-mail, I recognize cement when I see it and I have but a few seeds. I am well aware of all the decrees written... and clearly Ezra's is the correct decree... the math is exact... not even off by two days.

Secondly, what have I wrote that would make you think these discussions would degenerate into chaos? I only quote the word, don't curse or swear, and have never called anyone a bad name? I debate those that have their understanding of the word, just as I do. My job is to find the lost not really to debate with the believer... although it is hard to not instruct with so many that do not know the word.

Daniel says in chapter 12, "My Lord, what will the outcome of all this be?" The outcome of the vision in Chapters 10 and 11... a description of history from the Persian Empire until the Lord's return. Do you really believe that by some one predicting a year of our Lord's return that will some how limit God's ability or make Him change His plan? My God is an awesome, powerful God and nothing I do will make Him change what He foretold to Daniel... because then what he wrote would be a lie and the Bible is 100% true... "for what has been determined must take place" and it will happen at the "appointed time".

Furthermore, the heavenly being's reply to Daniel's question is as follows, " Go your way Daniel, cause the words are closed up and sealed UNTIL the time of the end. Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand." As I told you, the converse is true. At the time of the end, the words will be opened, unsealed. Now Christians have but one question to ask themselves. Do they believe we are living in the end times? If one answers yes, then they will know the time if they are wise. If they answer yes, and they don't know the time, are they wicked? And if they answered no, then regardless if they are wise of wicked they will not know the time... But know this, Israel came back into existance in 1948 as you are well aware and this is a key sign that we are living at the "end" of the end times.

As a side note, Christ was not in the tomb 3 days and 3 nights. This is a passage in Matthew only. For God's word to be true, all of His word needs to be true. One passage misunderstood, misinterpreted, taken out of context that makes other passages a lie can only mean the interpretation is false one. If you read all the Gospels and not just one verse in Matthew, every other occurance that Christ predicts his death says he will rise on the third day... see Mark 10:10:34, Luke 18:33 and others. If he was in the tomb 3 days and 3 night, then he would have rose on the 4th day... hmm. Is this the correct teaching? Or is Christ's own words a lie in Luke when He says he will rise on the "third" day and not the forth day?

Lastly, I have looked at your webpage you listed... your effort should be commended if you wrote that, but it is based on the work of others that use things other than the word of God! You are knowledgeable on some dates so you should be aware that the second temple was burned by the Babylonians in the summer of 587 B.C... some incorrectly believe it was 586 B.C... but using either one and God's word will not get you to 1446 B.C. as the exodus date... God's word has given all the time neccessary for you to calculate dates from that point all the way to Adam... one only needs to read the word for themselves and to the math. (1st and 2nd Kings, 1st and 2nd Chronicles). Those that believe what they read without understanding the motives of those who write it only help to promote these false beliefs. Now if you aspire to believe this is the true date, then what you are saying is that parts of the Bible are in significant error, the word or the Lord can not be trusted, or it is a lie. For in one thing we can all agree is when God says a king reigned 30 or 40 years or even just 3 months, there can be no misunderstanding with this language. I choose to believe the word is 100% reliable and never trust those theologians when it comes to math... being a trained engineer myself.

Note: your work is based on study bibles and may not have been manipulated by you, but it was maniputlated by those that wrote it because it doesn't match the word of the Lord... do the math yourself.
No need to reply to this post I will not be responding to anymore posts... the time is too short to waste it on fellow Christians they will be saved... My purpose is to spread the revelation the the Holy Spirit has given me these past 6 months to as many as I can in the remaining time we have. For those who seek the truth of that revelation they may contact me at Christsreturn2028@yahoo.com.

May the Lord Bless you all and all those you care about and help you to complete the "good works" He has prepared for you to do at the begining of creation.

Hi Shekel and All,
If one understood the significance of Melchisedec in Hebrews 7, and appreciated the organization of the book of Psalms, one could certainly set a year. However, please allow me to propose that that timeline would not meet most expectations. Of these expectations, the seven year tribulation is a misapplication of Daniel 9, and the Rev. 13 forty-two months is the correct duration.

If one were to consider all the western movies ever made, I don't think any every started with the town folk being abused by the bad guys, the good guy shows up, the bad guys throw down their guns, throw up their hands, march off to jail, and the movie ends within ten minutes. No, instead there's always a protracted struggle which takes the bulk of the movie, and the good guy usually wins.

In the timeline above, certainly we can approximate the arrival of the good guy, but does he arrive at the end of the forty-two months? -- Obviously not.

In this process, one should consider that the worse curse in the entire bible is reserved for the worse person to draw a breath of air. So per, we should be able to confirm both the pinnacle of this persons presence and the arrival of the good guy within a year span respectively. The victory timeline may also be discernable.

Having said this, and as others has stated, no one knows the DAY or the HOUR of that return. Even the week and month may be a challenge, but the season should be reasonably attained.

With Best Regards,
DaDad

The great tribulation begins in July. The Kingdom starts 1335 days later. Sorry you can't calculate the day and the hour from that.

So...Godsloft.....what signs will there be to tell us we are in the great trib in July? Economic collapse? War? Natural Disaster? Israel being divided?

If something is prophesied according the the Holy Spirits direction and the same thing is prognosticated according to the spirit of divination...and it comes to pass, what should we think?

This comes from what bonomike has brought into the forum via prognostication. It leaked into some of our posts as stated below. If it even comes true what does that mean for the source? should we jump on the prognosticators wagon because of the ability to divine by techniques and methods? Do many resort to this method because they couldn't hear the Spirit in an empty room even if he was shouting? Yep..

First, the weather over the face of the planet will disappear. The heavens will be shut up so that no rain or dew or snow will fall on the face of the earth for 1260 days. Nothing on the satellite pictures worldwide. It will become a death valley summer everywhere on earth all at the same time. Then not many months will pass and all of the water supplies on earth will be turned to blood like the blood of a dead man.

Faith in the Lord alone will be the only way to survive. Those who are trusting in what money will buy in the name of the Lord will fall hard. With no water on earth for over three years it will take faith to bring the water out of the face of the rock. what ever anyone stores up will be turned to blood also.

After reading this thread, a question occurred to me. Which is better? For us to know the season (and maybe even the month or week), or is it better for us to show love to one another?

I’m all for debate about issues such as how specific can we get beforehand in our knowledge of exactly when something will occur. We should try to understand the signs and times we are in.

However, some of the rhetoric on this thread (and threads like it) comes across to me as if some people are more concerned that their point is absolutely correct and everyone sees it exactly as they do, rather than displaying love for one another. In other words they would rather be right than be loving. That is only my opinion and not intended to be a judgment, but rather an observation to think about.

Whether someone is exactly right in their interpretation of the timing of future events is far less crucial to me than if that person demonstrates love toward others. Jesus said we would be known as his disciples by our love for one another. He never said we would be known as his disciples by how correctly we interpreted prophecies and future events.

I think we have to be careful in this area. Even the prophets of the Old Testament did not understand exactly how the prophecies of Messiah would be fulfilled, or exactly when. (In hind sight it is much easier for us to see.) And the religious leaders of the time when Jesus was born and lived did not understand either. They spent their lives studying scripture and still did not understand.

My feeling is we have to be careful not to set ourselves up as being superior to other generations in our understanding of prophecy and its fulfillment. Yes, God does reveal hidden things, but it comes from God, not from our own intellect. I feel it is far more important to know Him and demonstrate his love than it is to be 100% correct in an interpretation of prophecy.

Just my personal opinions.

David A says:



But let's break this thinking down a little. While it's good to love and be generous when it comes to opinion let's be sure we know what the opinion is based on. Are they hearing the Spirit or are they prognosticating.. This is a big difference and God has big rules that are only transcended by grace when one repents.

When the Apostles saw sex sin in the church and exposed it for what it was and turned the people out...we don't find others coming up and admonishing him about loving people according to grace. Sort of patting him on the back and saying "Now now Paul... We differ in how we see things so lets be gracious and show our love for one another".

How do we reach our interpretive conclusions? By the Spirit and the word or are we simply resorting back to prognostication. God is very clear about it in his word and it didn't change with the new covenant.

If we don't address it and call it for what it is then it will be so ingrained among us that we'll be choked out...By what Spirit do we propheci? Or do we calculate by taping keys according to ancient methods?

Because we've refused to address these things the entangle places have gone untouched by those called according to his purpose...If someone is called to places it must first be to address the prognostication that goes on unchecked at every level. Have l made mistakes? Yes...I try to check myself and learn. This was never intentional on my part nor have l turned a deaf ear to the spirit of correction.

But those who have no intention of hearing by anything other than their own methods will continue to infiltrate and strangle out every word purposed in us by the Spirit ... not because God isn't able to over ride this...but because he won't until we are obedient to take a stand over the infiltration according to his word.

True, and I agree.

My point is there is a HUGE difference between pointing out sin because we love a person and want what is best for them, and attacking a person because of what we perceive as being a sin. Some things are obviously sin, some things (like interpretation of scripture) are not necessarily sin.

When things are obviously sin, then yes we are supposed to confront sin. But we are also supposed to do that out of concern and love for the person’s well being, not out of our having to prove they are wrong and make them see the error of their ways. It is not up to use to make someone see things our way.

It is up to God, and the Holy Spirit to bring conviction and draw them to repentance. We are supposed to confront and speak the truth in love. That is our obligation. But making someone change their opinion is never our job.

The following statements apply to areas of scripture that are open to interpretation and are not obviously sin if we have different interpretations of them.

Attacking a person because their interpretation does not agree with my own is much different than having a discussion based on love, the Holy Spirit, and scripture. If I believe so strongly that my interpretation is correct that I want to impose my viewpoint on them ( even if they are wrong in their interpretation), I am also wrong in trying to force them to see it my way.

In this case I have to choose. Do I want to impose my will on them (especially when I am convinced that I am right), or do I want to be loving and have a relationship with them? If I choose that I must make that person see it my way then I have crossed a line and am saying that my will and my viewpoint is more valid than their will and their viewpoint.

I can and should talk with them and explain why I interpret the passage as I do. But I don't think God ever gave us the right to try to make someone see interpretation the same way we do. When we try to force them to see it our way we are then guilty of sin ourselves. Even if my intentions are for their good, God never gave me the right to force them to see things as I do. And he definitely never gave me the right to attack another person.

As a believer I have every right and obligation to go after sin in my life and others lives. But I never have the right to attack the person, regardless if they agree with me or not.

So in this thread the discussion is about setting dates and about the timing of the great tribulation. This is a matter of interpretation, not a matter of sin if we interpret the passages differently.

My personal opinion is that we should all be able to post our interpretations without trying to make others see it our own way. We can see what others say. Often in my life, the Holy Spirit will use the words of others to reveal truth to me that I did not see before. I think that is what these forums are about.

What I was pointing out is that it really bothers me to see people get so upset and defend their interpretation to the point of attacking another person. It is difficult (especially when I think I am correct), to have someone raise a question or objection to my interpretation. But that never gives me the right to try and make them agree with me.

When making someone see it my way becomes more important to me than loving them and having a relationship with them as a brother or sister in the Lord, then I have gone too far.

You will find that case to have the ascendancey as I wrap the quote here...



This is more in support of Miki's reply, I am just wanting to give voice. The over riding principal throughout any forum I have every been involved with is just that...those who presume to be teachers will vehemently defend their position. Now that defense may fly in the face of what any number of others are saying. But they still say "Bless God I am entirely correct on this!" One has to try and determine what part of a person who posts is opinion and what is word. That further gets tampered with because interpretation of the word becomes subject to every nuance that will make that word fit the program of that one who is affording the "teaching." It is a circus and a merry go round of activity and it causes no end of loveless consternation and, even if it is an unintended bi product, it becomes the exhaltaion of self. One then gets insight into the spirit of the teacher easily enough. Because the word that is validated becomes obvious...2Ti 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all [men], apt to teach, patient, 2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth...I find this entirely a good benchmark...If someone can be right or even wrong and just accept the forbearance of others with a measure of humility. It rarely happens and in that I see a duality in the nature of the proponents of any given issue. Miki has said also a thing and it is well said. One must be ready to afford oneself the ability to judiciously administer the "left foot of fellowship" in certain cases.

Miki,

I'm concerned that I'm being talked about as if I had a rabid pit bull on a thread and led him into the room. If you have had concerns about the information that I've merely attempted to make folks aware is out there, feel free to message me your concerns personally.

Have you actually read much of the website I've passed along?

The author of the website is simply trying to point out a good number of things that he's stumbled across in scripture that seem to mirror modern-day events, i.e. 9/11. Yes, he has mentioned gematria. That, in itself, shouldn't necessarily warrant tossing the whole thing out. One would think that the creator God of the universe should be able run circles of numbers around the created god wanna-be.

Our Lord told us to watch and pray. Watch what? Perhaps events in the world that act as little guideposts to those actually paying attention and not sleeping?

If there is a shred of truth to the possible fact that 9/11 wasn't just a random act by terrorists upon the leader of the modern-day Babylonian system, but a marker that two millennia are now gone since Christ was on Earth, and that the world system is about to be judged by a holy God, then maybe it's important enough for God also to put out a few signs--again, for those awake and watching. Was it the start of a seven-year countdown? I suppose we'll find out shortly.

1 Corinthians 10:11
Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

I believe I can safely say that we are the ones "upon whom the ends of the world are come."

It certainly wasn't my intention to bring anything "in" that causes division, confusion, or whatever. I encourage everyone here to search the scriptures to build a foundational support for their beliefs, not blindly running with anything that posters on an internet forum claim to be from God or the Bible.

Prognostication--use a fancy word and it makes 'em sound really bad. For those that don't know, that means "predicting the future." I prognosticate a rain in a few hours, after all, it is getting rather cloudy and windy. (Not really--I'm just making an example.)

Steve has a lot of "could be," "might be," and "possibly" on his website. He's pointing out a lot of coincidences that taken one for one wouldn't be that big a deal. However, the number of coincidences is beginning to reach a laughable, unbelievable frequency.

One of two things is true:

1) That's all it is--a bunch of coincidences, and it means nothing (yes, maybe even Satan trying to distract believers from more important things), or

2) God is doing everything short of yelling through a megaphone from heaven for all to hear, so that possibly a few are awake enough to pray, seek him, and perhaps even move themselves out of the danger zone, so that they can continue to impact the world with the gospel and the love of Christ.

The information is out there. Judge it for yourself. Seek the Lord.

In Christ,

Mike

To All,
I was aware of a Thursday crucifixion premise which I was actually partial to, but was caught off guard with the obvious logistical argument. Are others aware of a Jewish convention which circumvented a double-sabbath? (Please provide a citation!)
With Best Regards,
DaDad

Hi Godsloft and All,
It would seem that your premise is probably not as obvious in this topic, as it might could be in some other venue. Would you care to elaborate, like maybe the year, and what your presumptions entail?
With Best Regards,
DaDad

Daniel 12
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.
12 Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.
13 But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days."

does it have to be guessing? can't it be a probability based of knowledge, study & pattern?