I have had trouble coming to grips with this if any one can tell me a great answer that would be excellent
Now consider the love you have for someone close to you like mother child etc now Gods love for that person is greater than our love now if that is true how can God then send that person if they do not confess jesus as their lord and saviour to hell do you get where I am coming from I wouldnt send my mum to hell if she wasnt a beliver I love her to much anyhow help however thanks

A question well worth asking, I think.

My answer begins with the observation that God is not just loving, but holy, too. In fact, in scripture God is called "holy, holy, holy." Thrice described this way, God is established as especially characterized by this quality. No where in scripture is God called "Love, love, love" or "Mercy, mercy, mercy". ONly concerning holiness is God given this three-times-proclaimed description.

It is a principle of scripture that when a thing is repeated like this it is being given greater weight. So, then, God's pre-eminent quality is not love, but holiness. And it is this holiness that provokes God to judge sin with eternal Hell. He is "light and in HIm is no darkness at all", which is hard for us to understand since we are born into sin. God is not perfectly balanced between light and dark; He is totally, 100% light. He has never sinned --- never. He does not have evil thoughts, nor is He tempted by evil. He is perfectly pure and holy. For this reason, He looks upon sin with hatred and judges it with extreme severity.

Fortunately, as you have noted, God is also Love. And it is because this is true that He sent His Son to die in the place of sinners for their sin. God doesn't want anyone to end up in Hell and died on a cross to prove it. It is not just that God sends people to Hell -- this isn't the whole picture by any means!

I've no idea if you'll consider this a great answer. Probably not. BUt this is the answer of scripture, I think.

IN Christ, Aiki.

Aiki thankyou for your response theres another thing you might like to answer you say god is only light and their is no darkness in hom if that is so then how did satan come about, God created everything heavens angels us etc so Satan is a fallen angel the thing is where did Satan ever get the idea to be how can I put it well evil you see if god is all light love etc then everything that comes from god ie created by him must also be light love etc so God must have created the knowledge of evil but where did gods thoughts on evil derive from or how would satan have any idea or concept of it. Hope you understand where I am coming from. any thoughts????

God wanted a people who would choose to love Him, so He gave us free-will. He allows to accept, or reject, Him.
And He created angels with free-will. They can rebel against Him if they choose to. Satan was created by God. Satan has free-will, and he chose to rebell against God. He wanted to be God (or like God).

God could have created mankind with no ability to sin, and no free-will. Mankind could have been made to be like robots, loving God and His righteousness automatically (with no free-will). But God wanted us to have a choice.

Most people choose to reject God and His love. A few people choose to beleive the Bible, confess their sins, and repent of their sins. These people are very precious to God. They chose love, righteousness, truth, humility, charity. And they rejected hate, apathy, sin, lies, pride, selfishness.

When people choose to sin and reject God's love, other people get hurt. That's very un-fortunate. But the alternative is: We could be robots.

dennis manning

Denis I understand what you are saying but my point was well did god created sin

then because where did satan get the concept from for eg I make a cake I choose

particular ingredients so when the cake is cooked it is perfect the cake cannot taste

bad because it was created with the right ingredients so god created satan the

mindset that satan chose to live by must have first been apart of god. I

understand that God wants us to choose him and not just be born perfect. So

is God maybe refereing to Satan as apart of his mind for which he teaches us to

overcome did God create satan on purpose for this peticular reason our decisions

to choose him to see if we his creation could choose to follow him or choose to live

in a lower form of life (sin). God created man in his image

I am not sure about what I said I am just putting things out there I am not sure if this makes sense to you or not any ideas

Free will is free will.

If God had made me to be a robot, then there's no possibility that I could do wrong. I could do only the perfect will of God.

BUT, He made me with Free Will. I choose what I will. And for many years, I chose sin, rebellion, foolishness, selfishness, lies, pride, laziness, murder, apathy for the poor, etc.

I now choose His will over mine (not perfectly, but enough to get saved).

Since I have chosen His love, wisdom, humility, etc., then God finds my repentance very precious and satisfying.

Apparently, Satan was the first to bring sin into the universe. God didn't have anything to do with that, except that God gave Satan free will, and God foreknew that Satan would sin after his creation. Apparently, God can travel to and fro within time as well as in space. (God is omni-present in time and space). How else can He know the future before we, in our free will, decide the future? God knew the future, that Satan would sin. But that doesn't make God culpable. Satan is culpable.

I decided to have children (2 daughters). I knew that they would have free will before they were conceived. I (sort of) foreknew the future. They might choose to sin. If they choose to rebell against God and goodness, am I culpable? Didn't they have the same chance at repentance and salvation as I did?

God does not hold me responsible for my children's sin.

Apparently, Satan came up with the idea of pride, sin, rebellion against God without any "help" from God. Otherwise, God would be culpable. Remember, all sin hurts people. So, Satan knew that he was hurting people when he chose to sin. Sin indicates a lack of love for all others, which is un-acceptable to God. God is love.

Apparently, Satan's sin is worse than My sin. He has NO opportunity for redemption and salvation. I do.
He started as sinless, then sinned. I was "born in sin, conceived in iniquity", then I repented. I chose righteousness instead of continuing in sin.

dennis manning

Hello.

Dennis has some good things to say. Not much to add, really. But, since narrowpath asked me explicity to answer his/her questions, I'll take a stab at it.



Actually, the Bible says that "God is light and in Him is no darkness at all." (1 John 1:5) It's not just my personal take on the matter. HOw did Satan come about? All evil is, at its root, simply putting Self before God. The Bible says that Satan was lifted up with pride and desired to be as God. God didn't put it in his head to do this. Satan's pride was completely his own. And God didn't make him this way from the beginning. Satan was serving God as a chief angel perfectly well before he got a swollen head. Not being a robot, however, Satan had the freedom to consider not serving God, which, ultimately, he chose to do. And so, the birth of evil was accomplished. God's only involvement in this was in giving SAtan the capacity to choose to serve Him.

Basically, what Dennis said.

IN Christ, Aiki.

I thank you all for your replys I still cant quite grasp the idea yet being the same reason how did satan get the understanding of sin
Ill put my thoughts into a picture you have this large ball this represents God out of this ball comes lots of little balls this is say angels, then other little balls come out humans etc know the original ball ie God is made of PURE LIGHT AND GOODNESS and all the other balls because they came from the origianl ball must then with no doubt be PURE LIGHT AND GOODNESS also guaranteed now the uniververse and humans etc all came from this original ball so therefore must also be PURE LIGHT AND GOODNESS now for some of the balls to be made of darkness and evil this isnt possible so there are some options either the original ball contained darkness and evil for some of the ball to form or be of darkness and evil or there is another enitire separate ball made up of evil and darkness. I am writing this again because I understand your answers but I still dont think they answer my original question. and I am female just so you know

Thanks for the question,

The reason why God never lies, steals, murders, thinks proud thoughts, sins, etc is:
God is love. Anything that we do or say or think that is not motivated by love is going to hurt people. God is love. I want to be with people who LOVE me. And I want to LOVE them. God chooses (by His free will) to be love. Every kind of sin is going to hurt someone. God chooses not to hurt anyone, and He chooses to love all, and He chooses to help all. He's not partial to certain people.

If God chose to hurt someone (let's say Fred), not only would Fred get hurt. But God would be hurting Himself (God would have a flawed character, a guilty conscience, the "culture" in God's home would be injured, etc.).
Every time that I (or anyone else) sins, it tears down the love in our neighborhood. What if Dennis Manning got caught in a lie (or any other sin)? My neighbors would be injured in their culture, spirits, feelings, etc. Each sin helps destroy the love in my community.

So, since the Bible is true, we know that God has never sinned. And we know that the angels had free will. I don't know if they had "knowledge of good and evil" or not. They certainly knew evil after they sinned.

I don't know how to answer your question. BUT, where else are we to go? Only Jesus has the words of everlasting life. Who has a higher love and truth than Jesus and the Bible? Who is our Creator (if not Jesus)? Who is our Judge (if not Jesus)?
There's no where else to turn. The other religions are false, and we can prove it. Read the text of the Bible, doesn't it sound like a much, much higher love and truth than anyone else has ever preached? Billy Graham, the Pope, Buddha, Clinton, Bush, Mohammed, None of these have ever duplicated (not to mention exceeded) Jesus's love and truth. If we can't answer every question, should we reject the whole Bible? I believe not.

dennis manning

now,
Do you want to know anything else about Satan? (just joking)
Give us easier questions. You're killing us. (another joke)

Thanks Dennis

I think I am partially satisfied with you response I will sit on it for a while and while I do that I will think of another question to get you going actually I have one lol well what are you thoughts on Marijuana I do know to live by the laws of the land but in some lands maijuana is legal and I have not seen any reference to it in the bible its nots that I indulge I a have non christians friends who do and well have you any answers

cheers

I don't know much about mary jane. The MAIN reason that I don't use it is: I don't want to get arrested, and (assuming that pot is mainly a recreational drug) I would rather spend my money on sending Bibles to the Bible-less and helping the poor.

I've never done drugs, so I don't know what I'm missing. I have been drunk with alcohol 30 years ago, and that was a huge sin. I have seen my co-workers smoke a joint, but that was 20 years ago.

I have enough sin in my life now. No need to add to it. I'm assuming that smoking pot rather than helping the poor is a sin.

I try to make as much money as possible, and I try to live a modest life-style, so that I can help the poor to the maximum. Some of the poor that are dying of starvation and preventable diseases today are saved Christians. And I'll be spending eternity with them. My salvation (and my rewards in Heaven) are at stake. And it's a matter of love and obedience to the Scripture. The Almighty has commanded us to "love your neighbor as yourself".
And when I pray, I want to think that I have helped the poor, so that Jesus will hear and answer my prayers. Why should Jesus help me, if I care nothing for my neighbors, and I care nothing for obeying the commands of Christ? Jesus said that helping the poor is an emergency (He said "Sell all that you have, and give the money to the poor"). If I was suffering in poverty at my house, THAT would be an emergency. And I would feel hard at anyone who cared nothing for my suffering. See Matthew 25:31. When Jesus was hungry, He felt hard at those who didn't help Him.

Mary Jane is easy and cheap to grow, so, if the govt didn't put a sin tax on it (like alcohol and cigarettes), pot would be extremely cheap if it were legalized.
I think I've heard:
Smoking pot does more damage to your lungs than cigarettes, so that's a good reason NOT to smoke. Perhaps the scientists could find a way to enjoy pot without damage to our health. How can I help the poor and preach the Gospel, if I've damaged my health?

I do allow myself some luxuries, leisure, and entertainment. So, if someone wants to do recreational drugs (and assuming that smoking pot doesn't hurt anyone), perhaps it's allowable. One of our County Commissioners is a Pastor of a Baptist Church, and he sky-dives. What if his chute doesn't open? No more preaching!

There's some talk about legalizing pot, and I think perhaps I could support that. Not because I want pot sold on every corner. I've heard that many of the people in prison are there because of non-violent pot charges. And I'm tired of paying for their jail-time. If they want to ruin their lives with drugs, alcohol, sports, entertainment, materialism, rejection of the Bible, etc., maybe we should let them. We can focus on doing the good works of Christ.

I've never seen any mention in the Bible about recreational drugs (OT or NT) unless you count alcohol. The Bible condemns drunken-ness, but does allow alcohol in moderation.

I wonder why we didn't see rampant use of opium, pot, etc in America before we enacted the laws which prevent such drug use.
I wonder why there were no laws in the Mosaic Law (OT) against opium, pot, etc.
Perhaps there was such a taboo about it, not many people indulged.

I've heard that in my community 100 years ago, if a man wouldn't provide for his family, the men in the neighborhood would meet at the lazy man's house and beat him up. And they would bring food, money, cut fire-wood for the family. Later, if the lazy man needed any more discipline, they would do it again. In other words, each community had a home-made "Justice" system. Perhaps they did the same for drugs, drunkenness, etc.

dennis manning

thanks dennis for you insight you are a man of wisdom and I see you love the lord with all your heart I have know more questions at mo but I am sure Ill think of something

Hey, narrowpath!

Just wanted to comment on your ball analogy.

First off, God is not what He created and what He created is, obviously, not God. God didn't make a lot of little gods (or balls). We have some things in common with God like our moral sense, our creativity, our intelligence, etc., but God is infinitely beyond us, too. It is a mistake to try to understand God completely on a basis of what He has made. We see only glimpses of who He is in His creation. God cannot, for rather apparent reasons, be both the creation and the Creator.

Do we say that God is like celery? Or that He must be part antelope? He made these things so He must, in some way, be them, right? Well, of course, you don't believe this and neither do I. We have to be careful to keep God separate and above what He has made as scripture makes it plain that He is.

In Christ, Aiki.

Satan was the most beautiful creation in the heavens. I see Satan as someone who rebelled against God because of his own beauty and the power of God given to all his angels. This power was not to be used as a possession but as a gift to do the will of God. But Satan wanted this power for control.
So therefore...we see God being so giving and not possessive in his Holy power.
He gave us every breath of life as a gift, to use all our character to grow and prosper and not abuse..But unfortunately when pride comes into our hearts our hearts become hardened and greedy.
God Bless you All

First of all the word "hell" is english, if you go to the originals the words are gehenna, hades, and another word (of which I cant remember right now). Gehenna was a valley near jerusalem in old times but before Jesus' time it was made in to a dump or landfill, not a place of torture. Hades of coarse is the greek underworld. The words that are translated hell in the english versions would be better described as "the grave". Where everyone who dies goes. Revelations tells of an eternal lake of fire where the devil, the two beast, and the devils angels are tormented for ever. You have to remember that the devil took 1/3 of the angel population with him in his fall from grace. I think that God placed the quallities in the devil that would lead to his fall. He was not forced. Also you have to remember that the only way to recieve ETERNAL LIFE is through Jesus. If you dont accept Jesus as your saviour, then you do not have life eternal anywhere. You see if you are cast in to the lake of fire in the end, you did not accept Jesus and can not have eternal life. Your soul dies and you are no more. There is no after life for no believers. I hope I have answered your questions in a easy to understand way.

[FONT=Arial]Hei!



Yes,God is love so we must see what the bible said about Hell.
I hope this can comfort you little.

Can the dead suffering? Psalm 146:4 and Ecclesiastes 9:5 here it stand that the dead knows nothing.When they don`t know anything they can`t suffering either.

Look even in Jud 7 Here it stand that the towns was in eternal fire.What it`s mean? The fire have put out for thousand of years.these towns are now under the Dead sea.They was destroyed for ever so they couldn`t be build up again.Look Jeremia 50:40 Here it not stand something about the towns inhabitants could feel suffering after the death.Look at Lukas 17:29 what Jesus said about this.

I can tell you more but for the moment I think this is enough.I hope I comfort you a bit.

Rebecka

Dennis replied:
Hell is everlasting torment, as per the Bible. Where the worm never dies and the fire is never quenched. (The worm eats the body from the inside. The fire torments the body from the outside.)

The Gospel tells us to love. Love your neighbor enough that you are eager to help the poor, feed the hungry, etc

Jesus said "If you never helped the poor, it's like you never helped Me, when I was poor."

Jesus said "If you're faithful with little, then you would also be faithful with much. If you're un-faithful with little, then you'd be un-faithful with much".

If you're eager to steal a dollar, you'd be eager to steal a billion dollars.
If you're eager to help the poor (one dollar for one poor person). then you'd help a billion people with plenty of money each.

God counts our little sins as if they were big sins (a thief is a thief, regardless of the amount stolen). A thief would steal an infinite amount of money, if he thought he could get away with it.
A person who is eager to help the poor would help many, many poor people, if he could.

We think our lives are not very meaningful. BUT! We've already proven to God what kind of love we have. I've done a little charity to the poor. My neighbor did a lot more charity than me. My other neighbor did no charity at all.

God holds us responsible for our behaviour and faith, as if we were Gods. He gives us a God's reward for Faithfulness and obedience to the Gospel. He gives us a God's punishment for un-faithfulness and dis-obedience to the Gospel.

The Faithful people are made to be God's Bride. An extreme, everlasting reward, beyond our imagination.
The un-faithful are given extreme and everlasting punishment.
Our little daily decisions are counted as if they were big decisions.

I have the opportunity to help someone who is suffering, and I don't help. In-excuseable wickedness and anti-love. Imagine the hardness of heart! I get a murderer's punishment. Shame, everlasting fire. Torment.

My neighbor had the same opportunity, and he chose to obey the Gospel (help the poor). He gets an extreme, God-like reward. Streets of Gold. Everlasting Life. Glory.


There are different degrees of punishment for different people, according to their faithlessness and behaviour. Jesus said "A person who does not know right from wrong, and does wrong, will be beaten with few stripes."

I believe that: In the resurrection, we will be given wisdom and the capacity to see ourselves honestly on Judgement day. And ALL of us will see that God has treated us fairly.
The parable about the rich man who went to the fire, and the beggar Lazarus who went to a place of comfort (Abraham's bosom): The rich man never said that he was treated un-fairly. The rich man could have helped those who were poorer than himself, but he chose not to. Astoundingly wicked! And deserving a GREAT CRIMINAL's punishment.

We see it as un-fair, because we are SO INCREDIBLY WICKED AND SPIRITUALLY BLIND AND SPIRITUALLY DEAD. God said: Even the best that we've ever done is as filthy rags (in His eyes).

But if we will repent, confess, and obey the Gospel, He counts us as being Righteous. Many of us are un-willing to repent, so we remain in our sins.

If we think that God is un-fair, that indicates our in-adequate understanding of how sinful we are.


dennis manning

Im glad He wipes every tear from our eyes. God is a just God, He doesn't send any one there, They go of their own choosing because of hardness of heart.They refuse to repent.

I wish I could come up with a verse from Isaiah I think it is. It says in effect that God will take away your rememberance of the ones who don't go to heaven. Now that is real death.

Something that I tell my sons is,If you don't try it to began with it's harder for the devil to tempt you with it (Such as smoking pot or drinking)....It's easier for the devil to tempt you with it if you've enjoyed it before.

aiki and dennis mann,
Your responses have been the most beautiful I have ever read on this subject.
God has truly shown you the words to use.
What a witness you two have been to the power and Holiness of our Lord.
I thank you both for encouraging me to keep up the good fight for our
Father who loves us sooooo much. Yes indeed He is light, not a bit of
darkness in Him. Isn't that an amazing thing to stop and ponder.

Just thinking of that should make me fall to my knees and worhsip Him
again and again and .....................................................

I pray God blesses you for being such a help!!!

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death..." Revelation 20:14.

What do we suppose death and hell are? Some will say that it is obvious; but their thinking may be biased due to incorrect information. One common belief is that to be dead is to be a corpse, and hell is said to be a blazing lake of fire that will burn forever.

If this were true, explain this to me: How can hell be cast into itself (the lake of fire)?

If the two words are synonymous, the verse could have been written: "And hell was cast into hell," which we know cannot be.

For instance, if we were in a log cabin in the woods, and we had a woodstove, If I would take a piece of wood and ask, what is this piece of wood I hold in my hand? The answer would be, that it is a log.

The two words are synonymous. I could then cast the log into the woodstove. Since the log and the woodstove are two different things, the log can be cast into the fire. But it doesn't take a genius to know that I can't cast the log into itself, the log.

And so it is with hell and the Lake of Fire. If they are both the same, hell could not be cast into the lake of fire, plain and simple. Notwithstanding, since they are different from one another, hell can be cast into the real Lake of Fire.

The word hell is "derived from the Saxon helan, to cover; hence the covered or the invisible place." (Revised Easton's Bible Dictionary) Hell means to cover, or hide.

In the King James Version of the Old Testament, originally written in Hebrew, there is only one word that was translated "hell." This Hebrew word is Sheol, and is used a total of sixty-five times. Sheol is translated "hell" thirty-one times, "grave" thirty-one times, and "pit" three times.

Genesis 37:35. "And all his [Jacob's] sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him; but he refused to be comforted; and he said, For I will go down into the grave [Sheol] unto my son mourning. Thus his father wept for him." (Genesis 37:35) Jacob believed that his son Joseph had been killed by a wild beast and said that he would go down into Sheol unto his son. In this verse the translators used the word grave instead of hell. If they had used the word hell, it would have revealed that Jacob believed Joseph was in hell, and that he expected to go to hell when he died.

Job 14:13. "O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave [Sheol], that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!" Job was experiencing much suffering, which finally caused him to ask God to let him go to Sheol where he knew he would have rest. "There the wicked cease from troubling; and there the weary be at rest." (Job 3:17)

"I am He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell [Hades] and of death." (Revelation 1:18) Because Christ was dead; because His soul went to Sheol (the grave, or hell), He has the keys of hell, He has the right to unlock the prison of the grave and let the captives free. "To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house." (Isaiah 42:7)

Referring to the final judgment John wrote, "And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell [Hades] delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell [Hades] were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." (Revelation 20:13, 14) Hell, or the grave, delivered up the dead that was in it. Hell was cast into the lake of fire. It is generally supposed that "the lake of fire" is hell, but here we see that hell was cast into the lake of fire to be destroyed.