God's normal for a Christian can be summarized as follows: I no longer live! Now it is Christ who lives in me (Gal 2:20). There are two aspects of salvation that should be manifest in a Christian's life: the first is the forgiveness of sins; the second is his deliverance from sinning. Anyone who is not experiencing both of these aspects in his life is living beneath the privileges that God has accomplished for us in Christ.

Because of our limited comprehension of the state of our fallen nature, we do not have a true appreciation of how helpless the natural man really is. Thus, we still have some expectations in ourselves. And as a result of this faulty line of thought, we think that we can please God.

The blood can wash away my sins, but it cannot wash away my "old man" (Rom 6:6). For this we are in need of the cross, that the old man may be crucified. Though the blood deals with sins, it is the Cross that deals with the sinner.

At the beginning of the Christian life, we are concerned with our doing and not with our being; we are distressed more by what we have done than by what we are. We think that if only we could rectify certain things we would be good Christians; therefore, we set out to change our actions. We try to please the Lord, but we find that something within us does not want to please Him. And the more we try to rectify matters externally, the more we realize how deep seated the problem really is.

Since we came into the world by birth, we must go out by death. To do away with our sinfulness, we must do away with our life. But how do we do die? It is by trying to kill ourselves. Rather, we die recognizing that God has already dealt with us in Christ. This is summed up in the apostle's statement, "As many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death" (Rom 6:3).

The cross terminated the first creation, and out of death there is brought in a new creation in Christ: the Second man.

The conditions of living the Christian life are fourfold: (1) knowing- revelation from God of what Christ has done for us, (2) reckoning- experiencing what He has revealed to us in our lives, (3) presenting ourselves to God- consecration to God of that which pertains to the new life He has placed in us, and (4) walking in the Spirit- maturing in our spirits to be sensitive to His every leading. The experience of every believer should encompass these four conditions.

God's way of deliverance is altogether different from man's way. Man's way is to try to suppress sin by seeking to overcome it; God's way is to remove the sinner. Many Christians mourn over their weakness, thinking that if only they were stronger all would be well. But god's means of delivering us from sin is not by making us stronger and stronger; rather, it is by making us weaker and weaker. God sets us free from the dominion of sin, not by strengthening our old man, but by crucifying him; not by helping him to do anything, but by entirely removing him from the scene of action.

It is not an intellectual knowledge at all, but an opening of the eyes of the heart - to see what we have in Christ.

For the written Word of God to become a living Word from God to you, He has to give you :"the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him" (Eph 1:17). We are the factory, and our actions are the products. The blood of the Lord Jesus has dealt with the question of the products, namely our sins, and the Cross has made a clean sweep of the factory that produces the goods! What is "in Christ" cannot sin; what is "in Adam" can sin and will sin whenever Satan is given a chance to exert his power over it. Faith is the substantiation of things hoped for (Heb 11:1). This means making them real in experience. Substance is an object I possess- something before me. Substantiating means that I have the power or faculty to make that substance be real to me. The promises of God are revealed to us by His Spirit so that we may lay hold of them. We, as Christians, are never told by God to struggle to get into Christ. We are not told to get there, because we are already there. However, we are told to remain where God has placed us. In dealing with Christ, God has dealt with the Christian; in dealing with the Head, He has dealt with all the members. It is altogether wrong for us to think that we can experience anything pertaining to spiritual life merely in ourselves, apart from Him. Every true spiritual experience means that we have discovered a certain fact in Christ, and have entered into His experience.

The greatest negative in the universe is the cross, for with it God wiped out everything that was not of Himself; the greatest positive in the universe is the resurrection, for through it God brought into being all He will have in the new order of things. The cross is God's declaration that everything within us from the old creation must die, because nothing of the first Adam can pass beyond the cross. There is an old world and a new world, and between the two there is the tomb. And although God has already crucified me with Christ, I must still consent to be consigned to the tomb. That which has not passed through death can never be consecrated to God, because God will only accept that which is of the new order of things- that which pertains to His Spirit. Presenting myself to God implies a recognition that I am already altogether His. How can we ever expect the Lord to live out His life in us if we do not offer our lives to Him?

If we give ourselves unreservedly to God, many adjustments may have to be made. God will not let anything of our old selves remain. His finger will touch, point by point, those things that are not of Him until everything from our old nature has been removed. God will always break what is offered to Him. First He breaks what He takes; but- after the breaking- He blesses, and then uses it to meet the needs of others (Mark 6:41) We must all go to the cross, because what is in us by nature is a self life. Adam chose a self life rather than divine life; therefore, God had to gather up all that was "in Adam" and do away with it.
If we lack the experience of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, we should ask Him for a revelation of the eternal fact that it is a gift of the exalted Lord to His church. Then, upon having seen this fact, our efforts will give way to praises.

The Christians in Corinth had become preoccupied with the visible signs of the Holy Spirit's outpouring. At the same time, their lives were full of contradictions and were a reproach to the Lord's name. Though they did not lack the indwelling Spirit, they did lack a knowledge of His presence. Hence, a revelation of the indwelling Spirit was the remedy Paul offered to the Corinthian Christians for their unspirituality (I cor 2).

In order to experience the life of Christ in a practical way, a day must come, as definite as the day of our conversion, when we give up all rights to ourselves and submit to the absolute lordship of Jesus Christ in every area of our lives. A revelation of this requirement is the first step to holiness; consecration (the offering of our whole lives) is the second step.

Until the lordship of Christ is a settled thing in our hearts, the Spirit cannot operate effectively in us. If we do not give Christ absolute in our lives, though He may be present, He cannot be powerful. The power of the Spirit is held back.

A forgiven sinner is quite different from an ordinary sinner, and a consecrated Christian is quite different from an ordinary Christian. Grace means that God has done something for me; law means that I must do something for God. The trouble with the law is not that the law's demands are unjust, but that I, as a sinner, am unable to meet them. The law makes our weakness manifest. Had it not been for the law, we would never have known how weak we are. The law is what exposes our true nature. The law was not given with the expectation that we would keep it; it was given in the full knowledge that we would break it. And when we have broken it so completely as to be convinced of our utter need, then the law has served it's full purpose. It has been our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, that in us He Himself may fulfill it (Gal 3:24)

What does it mean to be delivered from the law? It means that I am henceforth no longer going to try to do anything to please God; for if I do, then I immediately place myself under the law. Therefore, I have no alternative; I must allow Christ to fulfill the law in me. And finally, I see that this alone is what is pleasing to God (Mt 5:17). This is deliverance from the law! It is only after having reached the point of utter despair in ourselves- so that we cease even to try- that we put our trust in the Lord to manifest His resurrection life in us. The sooner we give up trying, the better. For it is only by ceasing in ourselves that we give place to the Holy Spirit. And then, we will see a power stronger than ourselves carrying us through. As long as we are trying to do anything, he can do nothing. It is because of our trying that we fail. We all need to come to the point where we say, "Lord, I am unable to do anything for You, but I trust You to do everything in me." One faulty line of thinking that is prevalent among Christians is this: we know that justification is ours through the Lord Jesus and that it requires no work on our part, but we think sanctification is dependent on our own efforts. We know we can receive forgiveness only by our entire reliance on the Lord, yet we believe we can obtain deliverance by doing something ourselves. After salvation, the old habit of "doing" reasserts itself, and we begin our old self efforts again. However, the bible declares that, in both justification and sanctification, He is the doer. "It is God who works in you" (Phil 2:13)

Living in the Spirit means that I trust the Holy Spirit to do in me what I cannot do myself. It is not a case of trying, but of trusting; not a case of struggling, but of resting in Him. The cross has been given to procure salvation for us; the Spirit has been given to produce salvation in us. We think of the Christian life as a "changed life," a "substituted life," and Christ is our substitute within. Many believers have a wrong understanding of sanctification.

It is commonly conceived that every item of our lives should be holy. But that is not holiness; rather, it is the fruit of holiness. Holiness is Christ. I cannot please God, but there is no "cannot" in Christ, "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" (Phil 4:13). If we let go of our own will and wholly trust Him, we will not fall to the ground and break; rather, we will fall into "the law of the Spirit of life" (Rom 8:2). For God has not only given us life, but He has also given us a law of life.

Revelation always precedes faith. One of God's greatest problems in the church today is not the outward denominations and divisions of the body that man has made; rather, it is our own individualistic hearts that create and continue to sanction these divisions.

What God desires more than anything else is a man who will desire after His own heart. The trouble with many of us as Christians is that we have changed the channel into which our energies are directed, but we have not changed the source of those energies. We tend to forget that in the matter of handling the things of God, it is not a question of comparative value, but of origin. Where does the resource originate from? Our flesh? Or the resurrection of Christ!

The Holy Spirit has been given the task of teaching us (John 14:26). He does this by delicately putting His finger on something of the old nature that He sees in us and saying, "This is natural; this has it's source in the old creation and did not originate with Me. This cannot abide." Until He does so, we may agree in principal, but we can never see the truth. We may assent to and even enjoy the teaching, but we will never truly loathe ourselves.

Light has only one law: it shines wherever it is admitted. We can know neither the hatefulness of sin nor the treachery of our self nature until we experience the flash of revelation from God upon us that allows us to see as He does. There is so little evidence of spiritual life, where life is present in us, because the soul is enveloping and confining that life so that it cannot find an outlet. If we are living in the soul, we are working and serving in our natural strength, rather than drawing from God. God desires to bring us to the point where our natural strength is touched and fundamentally weakened (Gen 32:24-25), so that we dare no longer trust ourselves. True sanctification is brought to the heart of God when we are really "wasting" ourselves upon Him (Mt 26:7-8).

We cannot inject spiritual appetite forcibly into others; we cannot compel others to be hungry. Hunger has to be created, and it can be created in others only by those who carry with them the impressions of God. But there must also be something in us that gives release to the fragrance we have of Christ and that produces in others an awareness of need. And that something is a willingness to yield, a breaking and a pouring out of everything to God. This is what draws others out and on to know the Lord.

This verse has ministered to me the last several months:

Romans 8:6
For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,

-setting the mind on the Spirit is key
-"setting" is a powerful scriptural principle
-the Spirit dwells in my inner-most man, where my spirit is
-Jesus dwells in the same place, in my spirit
-I must set my mind inward to experience Jesus Christ
-I must set my mind inward to experience the power of the Holy Spirit
-the presence and the power free me from the flesh
-all of this is activated by faith and setting, which rests on grace

There is much more to this that I don't understand, but I know in time the Lord will reveal it to me.

Blessings,

Caneman

Spot on Maz.

We have to carry our crosses daily ..........pray for me please

I love you Maz

John 17:12
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

and quoted elsewhere

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Is this the old man? The revelation of the sin of man that is in all of us, that he is the son of perdition?

Then the falling away is needed to see the son of perdition in us, the destruction of sinful pride.

I read somewhere on someones interpretation that John stood on the sand of the sea and was then revealed the beast. That the sea was humanity and the beast was the son of perdition. And John was on the sand for he was not with the masses who commonly raise the beast, and by being on the sand his house was built upon it and it fell away then to finally have the beast revealed. He was on the sand only inches above the sea (all of mankind that serves a beast) because he had heard the saying of Christ but not yet doeth. Only when his house had fallen did he see the son of perdition in him and in the rest of humanity so that finally he had his house build on the rock of Christ; that he finally doeth what Christ says.

Matthew 7:26
And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

Is that not like a disciple of Christ? that he or she was with the masses in the sea to lift up a beast, then he or she hear's the word of Christ to be saved but not doeth his word to be sanctified, so as to build their house on the sand? Then when the Lord falls away that person's house the son of perdition is revealed in him or her and such a repugnant thing it is the Lord leads the person to finally doeth his word? Is this what it means Matthew 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen" ?

I could not argue against this interpretation, and I was wretched in my heart the humanity that dwelled there. The job, the money, the house, the car, the cloths, the news, patriotism, democracy, family values, religion, justice, the law and all else this world values were crushed to powder. The stone of Christ fell upon me and I cared not for these things no more, they are dung to me. Left with nothing else I can only love and believe in the Lord.

Here is what it is like to be a Christian!

Realize that the Christian life is not a trouble free life. Know that you have not been promised a deliverance from trials, but rather a deliverance through trials. (Psalms 34:19) The initial joy, providence, answered prayer, and fruitfulness which encourages us to to be established in the kingdom. As one grows stronger, the school gets tougher. You will be exposed to as much testing and pressure as you are able to bear. Your character is being built in the process. Your faith is increased through the experience of His saving and delivering hand. You are being prepared to help others. He will crystallize your sense of values, giving glory to Himself in your life, and perfect your weakness in His strength. You undergo increased temptation, conflict and pressure as you reach out to the Lord.

Know that nothing has gone wrong. Do not equate struggle with defeat. He exercises us by exposing us to attacks from the world, the flesh and the devil. Our powers of resistance are being honed and our character is made to been grow. He looks after us in much the same way that a natural parent cares for a child. He has not forsaken you, but rather the opposite.

Sometimes when things are hard one tends to think "This can't be God!" Attacks overwhelm us with a sense of inadequacy which drives us to cling to Him more closely. He wants us to feel that our way through life is rough and perplexing, so that we may learn to lean more thankfully upon Him. He take steps to drive us out of self confidence to trust in Him. The secret of a Godly man's life is surely to "wait on the Lord." He will use our sins and mistakes to this end very frequently. His word shows many examples of Godly men making mistakes and being chastened for it. He can bring good from our extremes of folly. When you have a sense of failure, run to Him, not from Him. His restoring grace awaits you!

Your insight into my life is uncanny.

Just this morning, after a horribly awful start, God sent me to Jude. Then he sent me to Romans 5 and 6. What a juxtaposition, right?

Anyway, thank you for this teaching. I am trying to "get this." I mean, I understand the words, and I pray almost daily that God will break me, that I give myself to Him. But... I don't know... there is something not clicking that I can't put my finger on.

I have a piece of paper that I've annointed with oil and framed that hangs on my wall. It is signed and dated. The paper is actually a "letter" to Jesus telling Him that I'll be a slave to Him. I recall that writing the words "slave" was actually HARD- it always has such a negative connotation... and even now typing it is difficult. Why do I have such a problem with His authority over me? I mean, He is the creator of the universe, that rescued me from death, hell, and the grave, He knows EVERYTHING, etc. etc. etc., SO WHAT THE HECK IS MY PROBLEM???

I so want to be santified/consecrated. I DO. But I can't seem to reach it. I am rebellious and stubborn. Mostly selfish. So this whole sanctification thing is extremely hard for me.

You once told me to "let go of the rope". Well, I want to. I just don't know how. It is really frustrating because I feel that I'm always failing. When I look back to reflect on my slip, the reason I failed it seems is because I relied upon my own efforts instead of Christ's strength. That and I had a moment (or moments) of complete and utter selfishness. All this I know, but I wish my spirit would catch up with my brain.

AHHHH.

I will print this out Maz and read it, re-read it, and re-read it. I pray that God, the Revelator, will show me, really SHOW me, what this all means.

(sorry about all the spelling errors guys... I can't spell worth a lick!)

Praise God, jhamner, the Lord sent you as an inspiration! You wrestle with the son of perdition! Over come it, I pray to the Lord, overcome it!

Mazinaw,
You say so well the truth! The concept of death is hard for we, who are flesh and blood to comprehend! But it is an absolute fact that the old sinful nature no longer has to be defeated, because it is dead. The lie of satan is what tells us that we are just the same as we were before. He has been a liar from the beginning. Romans tells us that our old nature is crucifed with Christ! It is buried with Him by our witness of baptism. We are indeed, a New Creature. All we have to do is BELIEVE IT.
justaservant

Ooooh. Yeah, I know. When ya put it that way... shaZAM.

Jim, you surely honour the Lord in this and yes, without belief, there is no experience of it.

Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].

Hey Maz,

I just wanted to thank you for your original post in this thread. When I first accepted Christ I never had any kind of follow-up or instructions from others. Also, I didn't read the WORD OF GOD; therefore I backslid. I think it is so essential once one accepts Christ to keep that focus and stay with the right group of Christian people.

Thanks again.

removed

...the son of perdition