Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.

1Ti 4:14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

2Ti 1:6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.

I guess I am thinking the idea that power coming "from the outside in" as opposed from the inside out. I have to wrest this in my heart also, but there would be no reason for a doctrine of laying on of hands if we had it all within us. I think it may be that every Christian has a gift, and it can be passed along to another. I think I said already that I felt the transfer of the Spirit into me the day I was touched by the Lord...The laying on of hands is a doctrine. It was given to Timothy from Paul, so there must have been (still are) others...What was Timothy's gift? He was an evangelist...Maybe only an apostle has the power to do this.


Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. Joh 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet [given]; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Whe the woman touched Jesus , he said ' the Virtue has gone out of me '.

Good point thanks!

Maz ...I am clutching at straws a bit .

Isn't the laying on of hands something to do with Unity . Becoming part of a Body , a group .

For Sports , the Huddle is the unifier .
For a Christian , the laying on of hands brings us physically into the Body of Christ .

As I say , I'm rambling here .......but i'm trying to help !

Acts 8:17
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

1 Timothy 4:13
13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.

14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.

2Ti 1:6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.

Here it says that 'thou stir up' He's exhorting me to stir the gift that is in me when or because he puts his hands on me.

So it's already there, he's just coming to stir it up a bit, or causing us to.

Reminds me of that song...I'll try to find it...it had been a long time since l listened to it. I put it on yesterday morning instead of being online. I didn't realize till just this moment that that was what the song was saying over and over. My oldest son gave it to me....

"Stir it up in our hearts Lord...Stir it up in our hearts Lord. But he made the CD so l might not be able to find the title and the words.

(My oldest wants to be a Military Chaplin now. I hear they're trying to make the Military Chaplin's quit closing prayers in Jesus name.. )

I'll look for the song...

Here it is:

Tim Hughes
From his album "When Silence Falls" third track....

Consuming Fire

There must be more than this,
O breath of God come breathe within,
There must be more than this,
Spirit of God we wait for You.

Fill us anew we pray,
Fill us anew we pray.

(Chorus)
Consuming fire fan into flame,
A passion for Your Name,
Spirit of God fall in this place,
Lord have Your way,
Lord have Your way with us,

Come like a rushing wind,
Clothe us with power from on high,
Now set the captives free,
Leave us abandoned to Your praise.

Lord let Your glory fall,
Lord let Your glory fall.

Stir it up in our hearts Lord,
Stir it up in our hearts Lord,
Stir it up in our hearts Lord,
A passion for Your Name.

"Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, for our "God is a consuming fire." Heb. 12: 28-29

So we ask you Father...In Jesus name...the name that can never be taken away...

Stir up in us...Your desire...For it's your desire that we seek to do.

Help us to satisfy the desires of your heart oh Lord we pray...

I'm having a Holy Spirit moment....

The laying on of hands, and the applying of oil are symbolic, yet they hold merrit, as our outwardly showing. The effectual placement of our beleifs, faith and prayers. Our intercessor, the Holy Spirit, takes this and the manesfestation of our outward actions, along with our faith, and belief and prayers, can and do, heal the sick and raise the dead.

Jesus said for us to follow His examlpes. He used mud made from spittle to heal a blind man. He called out to Lazerus to come forth from the grave. And yes, when the woman reached out and touched the hem of His gament, she was healed. Virtue had come out of Him....he felt it leaving.

When I lay hands on someone in prayer, faith and belief, the Holy Spirit is stirred into action. There is a virtue taken from my body into the recievers body. The manesfestation of healing has been transferred from all that I know and have and God, hears and sees our actions, and He acts upon them! Praise God for the mystery of Him.

It is when both the giver and receiever believe together that the miracle occurs! That is called the POWER OF GOD......just imagine the power of 2 or more praying together!

What an awesome way to express "the laying of hands". Yes, if we agree in prayer and use "His word" or like you wrote "believe in the POWER OF GOD...then miracles "can happen". I used to have horrible migraines....until "the laying of hands" by two people....haven't had one since! Amen, and Praise the Lord for all He does for us! YSIC hannah

Onetiggerroo, You are truly of God! Thank you Hannah for the testimony! For years I carried a vial filled with olive oil with me wherever I went. The reason was, in my younger days, I was making a pastoral call on an elderly lady who was ill. I prayed for her as was my custom, but then she says, where is the oil! I knew exactly what she meant. But I thought that it was not necessary! I found oil and anointed her and prayed again, and she was healed! Onetiggerroo, you had it right. Faith going both ways brings miracles!
justaservant

justaservant, somtimes God quickens our spirit....thanks for the uplift!

I feel the oil...I fell the prayer...I feel the faith...and we beleive in Him! How wonderful is God's balm that is sent to heal us!

Just a note here...

If laying on of hands is symbolic, remind me the next time I get zapped I only thought it was real. Have you never felt the inflowing Spirit in this manner? For me that was the "issue" which made me a new creature...I experienced a thing which was beyond imagining. I walked and felt like I was six inches off the floor (literally) for 12 days afterwards. (Not to mention the inward changes to my man's heart)

Also, are doctrines symbolic?

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Onetiggerroo,
God is always with us. We are never alone. When we fall and skin our hands and shins, it is He who pours on that healing oil. We arise and go on!
God, we praise you for who you are! You are the Holy One! You are the Lord of Hosts! Help us Lord to see the battle, and not turn and run!!! In Your Holy Name, I pray!
justaservant

I read this as saying I stir up the gift that is in me because someone placed it there by laying on of hands...
1Ti 4:14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

2Ti 1:6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.

Has anyone ever felt a warm tingle speading from their head down, inside and out? I have had this happen maybe twice after praying with my head raised upward toward the sky, but it doesn't happen everytime I raise my head like that, so I've figured it's the Holy Spirit.

We'll keep working through it and get it eventually...Revelation knowledge.

When you seek you find...

I am getting chill bumps, heat in the face- warmth through the body, electrifying experience every time I talk to God lately.

Yesterday when my children and I talked about the books of the bible and got into naming the prophetic sections. I closed my eyes and asked them to name them. I saw Jesus in my head with the brightest light around Him. I am always in awe.

I know God is moving and if we keep our eyes on Him-you will feel things within your very soul-this I believe. I would believe even if I didn't experience this, but it is awesome to come to realize that we always have His presence.

The spiritual realm is all around us. I feel the heavenly hosts, but I also feel the dark side around me. We are fighting a spirtual battle for that I am certain.

I'm going to talk to the Doctor again....

What better witness then a witness Maz. Thanks for telling us and l am going to continue to investigate until l'm completely satisfied.

I've read both points of view out there in cyber space and l have to tell you the the symbolic interpretation seems like balogna...

Now the Doctor told me that the laying on of hands is for a special annointing for a special purpose, for a special time. He never had anyone lay hands on him but recieved the fullness of Christ at salvation and he operates in almost all the gifts.


Seek and you will find...knock and it will be opened unto you....

Amen Miki,

I want to tell you about my best friend. She had severe bleeding several years ago.
The bleeding did not want to stop due to tumors on the ovaries.
She went to our pastor and he layed hands on her and annointed her
with oil. She was healed instantly that day. My friend has such great
faith in our Lord and I believe the faith of her and our pastor is why
God healed her. Her testimony has strengthened many.
\
God's timing is always perfect. Her husband has been a non believer
for all of his life. This changing event has had him question his
non belief.

Halleluiah!! I love our Lord

Exactly!

Luk 17:19 And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.

When we truly start believing this again without doubting, we will begin to walk anew in the fresh oil anointing and we will see the power of God descend on men and they shall believe because they shall see like Thomas...

Miki

I have seen you metion this person before, who is she/he, by doctor I assume you mean phd?

IMHO, We shall soon all be seeing a great outpouring of His Spirit, if we all were doing exactly what rtkiii66 said, "we shall see all things miraculous come to pass when we all start believing and professing without "doubt" then....." All things will become possible!

All of the giftings of the Spirit will come into play and we will see miraculous signs and wonders, but,....we need "To ask, To receive"! So, let us pray for the "anointing of the Lord to fall upon His family, which we are all adopted into", in Jesus name I pray, Amen, I said can I get an AMEN!!! I do so love the Lord, into foreverness ....amen. YSIC hannah fievel

AMEN!

Maz, you only read part of what I was saying....it is symbolic until we act in faith....our works are dead without Christ. Just as we outwardly profess our faith in the public Baptism of water. It is the baptism of the Spirit that changes us inwardly. And yes, I understand the issue you speek about. The electricity and warmth that comes when the two make connection in oneness of Spirit. This is the feeling you received. It is very much a real thing!

If a man seeks healing, but does not have faith, the healing cannot take manifestation. There fore it is nothing unless Jesus is the reason behind our faithfulness to Him. Otherwise it is nothing more than a symbol. Many people do not understand this and say, I didn't get my healing. They were not seeking it in truth and in faith, therefore they were there for a show only.

I have witnessed many healings and also, many who came forward, but did not have faith to receive. We act in faith.

We are on the same page, but reading a different paragraph.....

Tigger,

You said "I have witnessed many healings and also, many who came forward, but did not have faith to receive. We act in faith".

Jesus heals when people aren't even asking....

He did me...I knew him but didn't have anyone to touch me or lay hands on me but yet in the dark of my front room on my couch l felt a touch on my hand and healing begin to go up my arm through me.
I wasn't expecting to be healed. Actually l wasn't even really asking. Just crying out to God because l was so sick....Because of circumstances l wasn't able to visit a Dr. ( to long to explain).

The Lord has his reasons for healing or not and to tell people it's because of their lack of faith has caused so much hurt and pain in the body.

God says he would be found by those who weren't even asking..He uses healing at times in this way. I've heard much testimony to it. Total pagan unbelievers and.... instantly healed. They found him because of. God does what he wants and he won't be put in the box of our theology...He said he would have mercy on who ever he wants.

The whole issue here isn't the laying on of hands for healing anyway...That's a given. The issue is the difference between what Maz had happen to him and what many many others have had happen to them.

No one put their hands on me in order for me to receive the Holy Spirit. It came when l was saved (justified) as a child and through a long process began to surrender to him. There was a point where l began to cooperate with God and the sanctification process began to manifest itself outwardly. Some might think of it as a new birth. Born again....I burned my astrology books and renounced the life l had been living.

Now God really started to reveal himself to me through signs and wonders.

He took what Satan meant for evil (drawing me into the occult astrology new age and eastern religion) to speed up the process of understanding the work of the Holy Spirit. Why? Because Satan stole and counterfeited what was Gods to begin with. Like selling something on the black market...I didn't know l'd bought stolen goods. When l renounced those things it was like everything was repossessed.

Now God was giving to me legitimately what Satan had counterfeited. (A Kundalini type experience). Illegitimate gain was given back as l renounced it.

How do you know l'm operating in the Spirit and not still under the spell of the enemy? Fruit...The fruit of my life.

The Doctor l refer to has phds...He has a lot of scriptural knowledge and was a Pastor in a (what some like to call) spirit filled church for 20+ years. Through frustration at the lack of knowledge he dropped out of the Pastorate and got his degrees and now teaches ignorant people like me.

No one laid hands on him either....I'm going to bring this subject up to him again...
When l look back on it l think he may have understood more of what l was saying to him then l realized at that moment (It was between church services)

Maz should explain his 3 experiences to us again...because the last on is were he got the mega dose...

In this last day...Is the laying on of hands the latter rain? The former rain being Pentecost and now this new fresh anointing will usher in the second coming? This is confusing...

The Doctor said it was a special anointing for a special purpose and season...Do only certain people get an extra dose? Or is he going to pour it out on all flesh?

This is not to be confused with cooperating with the Holy Spirit in the sanctification process and the subsequent fruit and manifestation of the spirit as an act of faith and giftings. This is something else.

Because we have Maz with us to witness to us it doesn't come through hear say..

Does Maz operate in all the gifts like the Apostles did or only prophesying? Maybe he doesn't yet know he will operate in all of them? Does he have to get another dose? Or is it already deep in his belly? Is this what the manifest sons of God really means? Walking like the Apostles of old? Latter rain ect....

Or is Maz just overzealous? Or was the Holy Spirit just more present in the house because of corporate worship? He got an outward manifestation because of this? The reason l don't think it's so is because he said it lasted for 12 days.

When l received the counterfeit experience l talked about in the above it last an extremely long time as well...over two weeks...Did Maz get a counterfeit experience too? I'm not trying to offend Maz but it's better to put all the cards on the table and be honest.

I don't believe he did. Why? Because of his changed life experience...Fruit! You know him by his fruit. He's not selling some strange doctrine...He's talking about a legitimate experience that he said he had and is using scripture to back it up.

Come let us reason together. This is the investigation on my part...Ask and it will be given Knock and it will be opened. God won't give me a serpent when l ask for bread. Would he give that to Maz? My answer would have to be no.

But this has to be revelation knowledge. Not hearsay...First hand knowledge.

Of course Shekel is in a boat of his own... I wish he would come and talk to us in a more personal way about his own experiances. Amen?

Youve hit the nail on the head Miki, may God continue to bless you.

Yes, its the subsequent fruit that serves of confirmation as to whether it is from God or not.

Ive had some awesome experiences of the Holy Spirits presence and have literally collapsed under the weight of God. The emotional healing that came after was very tangible and the 'fruits' good. Some happened after the laying of hands and anointing with oil and some where I have just stood and prayed.

The most amazing experience happened when I was very ill a few years ago. I contracted Hepatitis C due to lead poisening and was very ill, like a fool I carried on working in a very stressful job and never fully recovered. I developed M.E. (Post Viral Fatigue Syndrome) and was bedridden for months. I could hardly lift my limbs and would just collapse with exhaustion just by vacuuming. One night I lay in bed and suddenely a feeling of immense peace flooded by body, I was excited because I thought Jesus was coming to take me home. I then closed my eyes and just opened them slightley and peak through the slits and saw a light cover my body and I felt hands on me, a rush of love and healing went through my body and I fell asleep. From that morning I began recovering and feeling better and I Praise God for healing me.

It is as it is not because we believe or choose and take up faith. God does as he pleases with what pleases him or not.

Ok...resisting the healing might have been better terminology. I see your point. I have seen those come forward to receive the healing, but they resist it. It is a show then. Is their resistance also a lack of faith?

Mat 17:14 And when they were come to the multitude, there came to him a certain man, kneeling down to him, and saying,
Mat 17:15 Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water.
Mat 17:16 And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.
Mat 17:17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.
Mat 17:18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
Mat 17:19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
Mat 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
Mat 17:21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.


Mar 9:17 And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit;
Mar 9:18 And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not.
Mar 9:19 He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me.
Mar 9:20 And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming.
Mar 9:21 And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child.
Mar 9:22 And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us.
Mar 9:23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
Mar 9:24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
Mar 9:25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.
Mar 9:26 And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead.
Mar 9:27 But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose.
Mar 9:28 And when he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately, Why could not we cast him out?
Mar 9:29 And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.

There is no doubt God operates sovreignly, but in these two records of the same account by Mathew and Mark, we see the faith of the disciple and the faith of the afflicted brought into question. Also we see intercession, the boy was not able to respond to Jesus. This kind of faith for the disciple does not go out except through prayer and fasting. Fasting meaning the dying of self and the word prayer used here is the greek word :

G4335
προσευχή
proseuchē
Thayer Definition:
1) prayer addressed to God
2) a place set apart or suited for the offering of prayer
2a) a synagogue
2b) a place in the open air where the Jews were wont to pray, outside the cities, where they had no synagogue
2b1) such places were situated upon the bank of a stream or the shore of a sea, where there was a supply of water for washing the hands before prayer
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G4336
Citing in TDNT: 2:807, 279

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

1Co 9:13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Again I am not concerned with the doctrine of man even if he has a phd, the Word of God tells me who I am and what I am capable of in the plan of God .

Act 14:1 And it came to pass in Iconium, that they went both together into the synagogue of the Jews, and so spake, that a great multitude both of the Jews and also of the Greeks believed.
Act 14:2 But the unbelieving Jews stirred up the Gentiles, and made their minds evil affected against the brethren.
Act 14:3 Long time therefore abode they speaking boldly in the Lord, which gave testimony unto the word of his grace, and granted signs and wonders to be done by their hands.
Act 14:4 But the multitude of the city was divided: and part held with the Jews, and part with the apostles.
Act 14:5 And when there was an assault made both of the Gentiles, and also of the Jews with their rulers, to use them despitefully, and to stone them,
Act 14:6 They were ware of it, and fled unto Lystra and Derbe, cities of Lycaonia, and unto the region that lieth round about:
Act 14:7 And there they preached the gospel.
Act 14:8 And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked:
Act 14:9 The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed,
Act 14:10 Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.

ok, I feel you all have your points, but you haven't answered my question....."Ok...resisting the healing might have been better terminology. I see your point. I have seen those come forward to receive the healing, but they resist it. It is a show then. Is their resistance also a lack of faith?"

I have actually seen and been apart of healing in many people, including those demon possessed. I was the vessel that God used....so, are you telling me they didn't manefest because of me? I have always done things with prayer and fasting, so what is your points again?

I am lost here. And, please make your statments brief...I am having a hard time following the longer messages.....

I understand that you all have been on the healing end. I have been on the praying end....So what is the problem with what I said. Has nobody really read my statment?

Ok here is what I wrote int he original post today...

The laying on of hands, and the applying of oil are symbolic, yet they hold merrit, as our outwardly showing. The effectual placement of our beleifs, faith and prayers. Our intercessor, the Holy Spirit, takes this and the manesfestation of our outward actions, along with our faith, and belief and prayers, can and do, heal the sick and raise the dead.

Jesus said for us to follow His examlpes. He used mud made from spittle to heal a blind man. He called out to Lazerus to come forth from the grave. And yes, when the woman reached out and touched the hem of His gament, she was healed. Virtue had come out of Him....he felt it leaving.

When I lay hands on someone in prayer, faith and belief, the Holy Spirit is stirred into action. There is a virtue taken from my body into the recievers body. The manesfestation of healing has been transferred from all that I know and have and God, hears and sees our actions, and He acts upon them! Praise God for the mystery of Him.


Why all the chastisement?

onetiggerroo

who are you asking?

This is getting to be a tough act to follow. I see it is incumbent upon me to reiterate what I have said with the caveat added in here that it seems to be scriptural to some and extra scriptural to others. What I have said (trying to get it in a nutshell now) is that I came to the Lord in 1982. I had head knowledge and a bit of heart knowledge. If I had the Holy Spirit (likely did) it was decidedly latent. There were no abilities or manifestations whatsoever, just an awareness that as a sinner, I had done my share. I did have a few (rare) times when I was shown something or other. But to be concise, I drop that ball for now.

When I stood in that prayer line in March 17th 1996 (understanding also that this was the Toronto blessing) I was touched in a superlative way. I said the euphoria of that lasted for twelve days, to the degree I felt literally like I was walking on air for that time. I said I felt the inflowing Spirit physically. I said I had manifestations of that physically...my temples went numb, my lips went numb, a red screen closed off my vision and I fell to the floor physically without being pushed.

Please understand what I said about the twelve days. I did not say (mean to imply) that is all that it lasted, I said it is the time I was so super anointed I felt like I was on air. But the changes within me were real and they were forever and I have acknowledged the fact of a new creature from that day forward. I also know that my flesh is able to have it's ascendancy at times. I am not a super Christian, though I wish I were. I was set upon to believe the elements of the faith which tend to the supernatural, and believe that a Christians normal is to be in the supernatural... A few days afterwards I received this ability to pray in tongues and it has proved to be a developing prayer language and I have interpretation of tongues to get the prophetic word I have shared. I got the gift of this prophetic word about three months after my initial contact in the prayer line.

I can also say, that I was given a special ability to memorize scriptures and I was also delivered form several of my fleshly sinful activities.

If it were not for that event at that time, I would not be here in this forum and I would not be saying the things I say and I would not be able to see the kingdom. I know that the biggest calamity I have suffered from all this is in my failure to get anyone to believe that it is real, that it is God and not the other guy.

I began to see from that special day forward that God is a supernatural God. That is where He lives and that is where I go to find Him. If I were to have to "retrograde" to a Christian experience of sitting in a pew with a sombre face and singing "bringing in the sheaves" to the tune of an old out of tune organ, and throwing my two bucks in the offering plate, I would not be able to continue on in the faith. I have to experience God at this level or it is a dead faith for me....

It is full of promise for me..., no matter what others say...

The experience you talk about is simular to mine when the gifts of tongues came upon me...For a solid week I spoke in tongues awake and asleep. I understand where you are coming from now....I have only been given the opportunity to interpet a few times. Not often. My gifting is in prayer and laying on of hands. There have been times when just about the whole room of people were put on my heart. I follow God's lead, never, ever, my own. That is what I have said before.

If you go back and study the Old Testiment and see the symbolism of acts that they did, such as, Rahab, in Joshua 2-6. Rahab believed that the act of putting the scarlett cord in her window would save her family. It was not the actual symbol that saved her, but her faith that the God of Israel would save her family. The same is true when the water is stirred. Throughout the Bible, when the water was stirred, people were healed. It was not the actual symbol of the water being stirred, but that their faith in God's healing is what healed them.....

No you don't always have to be annointed with oil, to be touched by God. He doesn't need us. But we need Him to use us. He calls for the elders of the Church to annoint with oil, when one is sick, according to the Bible.

It is our actions and our faith, that God wants.

If he tells me that when I pray for someone who needs healing, to use oil and annoint them, who am I to question Him? This is what I am trying to convey.

The title of this string "laying on of Hands...". That is what I was referring to in my posts. If you misunderstood, I am sorry.

Maz,
Please don't get me wrong! I am not demeaning anthing that you are saying. But I have seen this same exact thing happen to a person when they really and truly get saved for the first time. They describe it like walking on air. Even the sunshine seems brighter. They fairly bubble and can't stop talking about what has happened to them. This experience is so much different than a person going forward at church for salvation, the pastor praying for him, and then they all go home. This is the kind of salvation, filling, total change into a brand new person that our whole church system, nation, and world, really need! To many think that just because they went through the accepted motions, attend church, and try to be good, that is all that necessary!
justaservant

I think I see your point as one in which someone experiences a time of being brought under conviction, but not a lasting thing. Like the parable of the sower soweth the word where the word lands on a stony ground. It springs up for a season, and then withers....

I have also thought about the big crusades like Billy Graham has. They claim thousands of choices for Christ, but who can say how many really commit long term? I doubt they all do.

Feel led to share this.




"Have compassion on My lost flock, for they are desperate for My consoling love. Give them the prayer support that is meet for My righteous cause to be performed in their lives! Who are My lost flock you ask? They are the ones to whom I have been calling and yet they have not responded to My call! They are the bruised reeds, the burnt stones, the clanging cymbals. They are the disheartened and the unaware. My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge, saith God. The ones who are inclined to My word are not offended in Me, but the ones who do not follow after truth are ill prepared to meet the onslaughts of this life as they set themselves apart from God. Those who say they have it all together apart from Me have deceived themselves from the course of this life. I am the wellspring of everything they need, but they refuse to hear.

Do not depart from Me, but do My will in the days to come, for the salvation of man is the work to which you are being prepared. Many sons will come to glory as you go out in My name. I will anoint your every step, saith God. I can and will do a mighty work in the earth, saith the Lord, but it is for you, as my glorious church to please the Father through obedience to My call.

I call you to occupy the earth, even as I occupy My vessels. You are the temple of My Spirit. I have anointed and ordained you to My work. Leave no stone unturned in the going forth from quarter to quarter in search of My lost flock. I will have My way. I am the First Cause of righteousness. Satan is the antithesis to the glory, and his darkness will not prevail. You are in the camp of the enemy. Do not forget to wear your armour. Have the sword of the Spirit sharpened by using it daily. I am that I am, even the voice as of many waters crying out in the wilderness. I love you, My people! Do truth and be free, for this pleases me greatly. Amen".

Amen!

The Doctor wasn't in...But it's OK the truth will unfold with or without him...

Maz, Thanks for your reply...

Can someone resist a healing? Of course...There are many different variables.
But l wouldn't say that just because someone doesn't get healed doesn't mean they don't have faith. Someone who is resisting healing needs more than a physical change...But that's a long story to go into.

It's wrong to presume a lack of faith is the only cause...or demons is the only cause.

When he uses faith as a small seed, l guess l would wonder if this is the "gift" of faith...It's a faith though even small is powerful and it grows. These gifts didn't come until after the death and resurrection.

Laying on of hands is both symbolic and physical...I personally think that in many cases the oil is physical too. A conduit of some sort?

As far as stirring the waters!! I never caught that one. Creation research institute has done some seriouse research into that water and the water before the flood.
Water picks up certain properties when it "tumbles" it seems. You'd have to do a google search on it. It's interesting. Carl Baugh, l believe is his name. They attribute the water as being another reason people lived so long. If you think about it...7 or 8 hundred years is a long time not to get a disease and die.

Anyway, it's sliding off topic...

Tigger if God has called you to lay hands on the sick then l know you will keep right on doing it. PTL... If he's called you here then you should be glad to know that a lack of faith isn't the only reason a person doesn't get healed. Also that to reach that conclusion everytime or... that it's because of demons, has caused a huge amount of damage in the body...We just don't know all the reasons. Sometimes we find out sometimes we don't.

The focus l have right now is to whether laying on of hands is necessary to recieve the fullness of God...

Miracle working faith is one of the gifts. And if we expect this "latter rain" movement that everyone keeps talking about and the "full" annointing...Then to recieve such a thing would have to mean we are doing "all" the same things as the apostles...not just speaking in tongues or healing or having a word of knowledge.

Operating fully in all the gifts including raising from the dead.

I don't think any of us fit in that catagory although we have occasionally functioned in some or most of the gifts....Just remember these gifts were imparted through mercy to an unbelieving generation. The curse is still with us and won't be removed until Jesus puts his foot on terra firma... Then all those things will be done away with. We will see as we are seen.

Personally I believe that God always answers prayers, whether for healing of other things. Sometimes the answer is just no. We should always pray of course, but add According to Your Will!!! Maybe sometimes the healing does not occur, simply because it is not God's Will!! Perhaps he is using that illness in a person as a teaching tool, or to reach someone else..... There are many things that happen in answer to prayer, and its not always what we expect or want. But it's always for the best....according to His will! Amen

Reminds me of one of my faveorite jokes.....
An older man is sitting on his porch in his rocking chair watching a torrential rain. His street in front of him is full of water, when a jeep pulls up and the sherrif driving tells him, "Hop in, there's a flood comin' " The old man picks up his Bible off the table beside his rocker and replies, "I have no worries, as God will save me from the flood"!!
A few hours later, the man is sitting on his roof with his Bible as the water has risen to the edge of the roof. A boat comes by with the State Police in it. The officer tells the old man "Hop into the boat, the water is still rising" The old man just smiles and waves his Bible and says, "I have no worries, as God will save me from the flood".
Again a little time passes, and we see the old man holding onto the chimney with one hand and waving his bible in the other. A helicopter flies over and the rescue workers holler to him, "We're gonna throw down a rope....grab it and we'll haul you up." The old man again replies, "I have no worries, as God will save me from the flood".
A short time later the water rises even higher, and alas the old man is swept downstream and drowns. Upon entering Heaven he goes before God and asks, "Why didn't you save me from the flood"?
And God answers, "FIRST I SENT A JEEP, THEN A BOAT, THEN A HELICOPTER"!!!

God always answers our prayers......just not always in the way we want!!

Thank you for answering my question....

God is our Annointing Oil. It was when He reached through all the ages and touched us into our present exisitance. It was His Touch that saved us from ourselves and from sin. No we don't always need the physical "laying on of Hands', sometimes we need the little bit of faith, that we can muster up. Healing is not mine, it is God's. I haven't raised any dead yet...I guesss that one is not my gifting. ( except in dusting and mopping the floors!)

He alone will raise the dead and the living, and it is comming soon!

I am trying to understand what I said that got everybody questioning more or less. ...(I used to teach Sunday School and was a Ladies Ministry Chaplain). I still seek His Word in humbleness. I thought, maybe, I was wrong. God has answered my prayers and I have recieved some confirmations here. Thank you for being His vessel too!