Romans 12 is a great chapter to study for me at the moment. Feel free to join in at any time It talks to much of how we have to walk this Christian walk. Its great. Its full of the right attitudes and behaviour of a Christian.

First I see that Paul is making an appeal. He is really serious about this:

1I APPEAL to you therefore, brethren, and beg of you in view of [all] the mercies of God, to make a decisive dedication of your bodies [presenting all your members and faculties] as a living sacrifice, holy (devoted, consecrated) and well pleasing to God, which is your reasonable (rational, intelligent) service and spiritual worship.

Paul reminds us of why we should do this: because of the mercies of God.
We have to make a very firm and decisive dedication. I see "decisive" as a moment where the decision is in your mind at a certain time. You know make this decision, knowingly .
Presenting all your members and faculties:Paul is starting this off by getting us ready as a whole person to dedicate ourselves as a living sacrifice.

Holy : . Set apart to the service or worship of God; hallowed; sacred; reserved from profane or common use; holy vessels; a holy priesthood. ``Holy rites and solemn feasts.'' --Milton.

devoted:3. To give up wholly; to addict; to direct the attention of wholly or compound; to attach; -- often with a reflexive pronoun; as, to devote one self to science, to one's friends, to piety, etc.

Consecrated:1. To make, or declare to be, sacred; to appropriate to sacred uses; to set apart, dedicate, or devote, to the service or worship of God; as, to consecrate a church; to give (one's self) unreservedly, as to the service of God

well pleasing to God: How does God want me to "be" What does the Word say about what pleases God?: love God above all else.Love one another, and love yourself.

When we decide to function within these "settings" we are serving God and it becomes worship.
We are now a pleasing sacrifice , like good perfume, going up to the throne of God.

Cornelius-
I just read over Rom. 12 after seeing your post. So much to learn here.... lots of deep things.

Here's what stood out to me:
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

This fits perfectly with something the Lord has been showing me of late... we must diligently guard our minds and what goes into them!

I've recently been led to turn away from certain things.... most of the music I used to listen to (I threw out lots of tapes and CDs) , certain shows I watched religiously...soap operas, crime dramas, even sitcoms... actually the majority of television in general.

I asked for discernment and boy did I get it! Now the crass worldliness of these shows makes me literally shudder if I forget and pause on these shows/stations.

Satan has infiltrated nearly every aspect of today's society... it sickens me! (a sick to my stomach smilie would be nice)


You posted:



I found that by filtering all things through this it makes the acceptable and the unacceptable crystal clear.

I never even realized how much was in my life that was not pleasing to him.... the Devil's in the details..... and the little subtle things.

Paul's language and choice of words (or the Holy Spirit's choice of words ) indicattes to me that this is an area we as christians need to heed closely. There are dangers that have crept into our society, lifes, homes, almost unawares. We need desperately to heed these words.

We are called to be a peculiar people.
Titus 2
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.




Romans 12
21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

This goes so much deeper and means so much more than I realized until lately.

Thanks Cornelius.....good study! we've only scratched the surface though.... there's soooooo much here!


lov4all


Thank you Lord for leading Cornelius on this study. May we all be blessed as we study your way, your will, your truths. Reveal to us what you would have us learn, know, and live. In Jesus' name I ask that your will be done, Father. Amen

Love4all, thank you for joining in
I am addingverse two in as well like you, just now ,from the Amplified Bible. I find by reading the expanded words I understand more .

2Do not be conformed to this world (this age), [fashioned after and adapted to its external, superficial customs], but be transformed (changed) by the [entire] renewal of your mind [by its new ideals and its new attitude], so that you may prove [for yourselves] what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God, even the thing which is good and acceptable and perfect [in His sight for you].

I guess this points also to repentance first. As I see repentance its a total turn around from what I believed , to what God says.I then have to be totally re-taught by God, so when I open my mouth I speak His mind to people
Would you agree that this takes a long time?
For me in certain areas in my life, God had to have SUCH patients with me, as I tend to sometimes be hard of hearing in areas that is difficult for my flesh to give up.

"so that you may prove [for yourselves]"

I guess this is when our minds are conformed, things that looked strange and far away, like miracles and healing, becomes a proven because this part not only talks of God's will (although miracles and healing is His will too), but it talks of the "thing" which is good and acceptable and perfect [in His sight for you]
Its talking of a thing that is part of your life, a substance. What do you think this thing might be that is referred to?

read this from The Message. It makes so much sense, I love it.

Romans 12
1So here's what I want you to do, God helping you: Take your everyday, ordinary life--your sleeping, eating, going-to-work, and walking-around life--and place it before God as an offering. Embracing what God does for you is the best thing you can do for him.

2Don't become so well-adjusted to your culture that you fit into it without even thinking.
Instead, fix your attention on God. You'll be changed from the inside out. Readily recognize what he wants from you, and quickly respond to it.
Unlike the culture around you, always dragging you down to its level of immaturity, God brings the best out of you, develops well-formed maturity in you.

You're not the only one with hearing problems!!

I've been wondering the same thing lately and I guess it does take a while. Paul tells us that he who has begun a good work in us will finish it..... aludes to something that takes longer than a minute, I'm thinking.

The Lord really started working on me a few years back. I was raised very religiously and left it. Now that I've come back to Him I realize that I never really had a close relationship to begin with. I "knew" the gospel but didn't have the "experience"--- it wasn't real to me then.

And whoa!-- What an experience its been this time around! Daily I struggle and daily he puts up with me and leads me and teaches me.

Which brings me to "the substance". Thats easy..... Prayer! It has been vital to "putting off the old man and putting on the new" in my life. I've still got a long way to go though.

Romans 12:
12 Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;

Really its our lifeline, our hotline. I'm trying ot learn to "pray without ceasing". You know, keeping an open dialog through-out the day. I've asked that if too much time goes by (an hour or so ....) without me thinking of Him to please call to me... its really helped.

I'm constantly amazed and humbled as I grow to know my savior better.



I just re-read Romans 12 an dit occured ot me that it reads almost like the cliffnotes for baby christians!

Theres a wealth o finfo there..... I think it could be easy to get overwhelmed though.

Something I've had to remember.... I didn't get all these bad habits over night, I won't get rid of them overnight. By growing up in the world we learn and take on the ways of the world. Especially in these days, thats so far from gods way that its almost as if we go into culture shock when we realize how much in our lives are not truly Godly things.

We learn a little at a time and grow more each day. And Jesus holds our hands the whole way through, except when he lifts us up and carries up.

In my life I've realized that a major trap satan uses for new christians is the ole' "you're not good enough...you'll never be good enough...look how often you've failed...look how weak you are...just look what you did today...why bother..."and so on.

Instead of listen to satan beat me up so much I'm learning to listen better to Jesus guiding me and try to reflect on the things I OVERCOME each day. And I try to grow a little more everyday. After prayer, I think repentance is almost as inportant... we can't change something if we don't truly know heirs a problem and repent. This shows our willingness to be changed.

Some of the best advice I ever heard was a warning to those just coming to or coming back to Christ and embarking on a new walk. This man said that its at this time that your whole world will seem to fall apart. You'll find yourself slipping into old habits or ways and being tempted like you can't believe.

Why? Satans after you.... its a critical moment ... he's trying to keep you in his clutches.

But he's already lost... Jesus is patient and loving. We need to hang in, fight the good fight, and remember to never let anything keep us from coming to our Father with our problems.

If satan can keep us from praying, he's cut off our air, essentially.

I guess I got a little onto a tangent. Sorry. just this is something that's I've had rolling around for a while now.... its a message I'm passionate about.

God bless you for sharing from this version brother!!!! There's so much to get out of this reading....it's awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!

To me Isaiah 55:3 is one of the most powerful messages to me.
Changed me in an instant-goes well with Romans 12-what you think?

Isaiah 55:3
Pay close attention!
Come to me and live.
I will promise you
the eternal love and loyalty
that I promised David

God never goes back on His promises.
I never truly lived until I came to Him.

I went to church all of my life and never really paid attention-never
really had a close relationship with our Creator until I started reading for
myself and Isaiah 55:3 says come to me and live. WOW!

Welcome Selene and Rosie.
Selene, I read this and also saw that here is so much in this. It somehow reminded me of the strenght of Cor 13 about love, this is just about life in Christ.

Yes Rosie, I like that scripture, it does relate well.

love4all, you are right about it took all these years to form the habits. Sometimes we expect God to take away the consequences of our wrong doing and thinking in a day. Well sometimes He does that, but mostly I have seen Him change me over time. My friends would tell me I have changed, but I would not "see " it.
On the other hand, if we look at verse 2, we must change the way we think.
That is a difficult one . Well when we get older, it get more difficult to change the way w think, unless we have a soft heart and open ears to the Holy Spirit.

Where does it say somewhere in Prov.
OK here it is. Prov 23:7
"For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he:................."
and Math 34....."For whatever is in your heart determines what you say. ....."

God showed me ones two doors and told me , when you come into any situation, you have two choices.
1 Go through the door of fear and walk satans' road.
2. Go through the door of faith and walk God's road, by standing on the Word in the face of the "so called real" circumstances.

You know that our reality has NOTHING to do with God's reality!
God lives in the faith realm, where He speak things that are NOT, into being.

He spoke creation in being, He came as the Word, He gave us His Word to use. In the beginning was the Word....put a guard in front of your mouth......the man who does not stumble over his words are perfect......so many , many scriptures to do with the WORD.

So in the world, we use to say things like; "You are so funny , you just kill me"
"Its unbelievable how good God is " You scared me I almost had a heart attack!" all those words (that according to science never dies..for energy cannot die)

So now we get to be transformed by renewing our minds through the Word. We get a new way of thinking about things. We have hope in heavy times, because the Word works for us. "I know the plans I have for you, plans to bless you and give you a future" (my rough quotation)

In short : When the world gets scared by the storm, the Christian says...Do not be scared, I know the One , who rides the storms" we can also through His power in us say to the storm "Be still in Jesus Name" where as the world can only be afraid.

love in Jesus
Cornelius
.

Isaiah 55

6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Rosie- Yesterday morning I was trying my best to figure out where this passage is. Eureka!! His ways are so much higher than mine! When things get tough and I can't see a way out this always comes to mind.

I haven't had a chance yet to read the whole chapter again but will when I get home.

Cornelius- You seem to be a kindred spirit!

[QUOTE]Sometimes we expect God to take away the consequences of our wrong doing and thinking in a day.[/QUOTE]

I did....

[QUOTE] Well sometimes He does that, but mostly I have seen Him change me over time. [/QUOTE]

Yep, same here.

[QUOTE]My friends would tell me I have changed, but I would not "see " it.
[/QUOTE]

So true.... but that's how I started to understand that God was walking me and it was satan discouraging me. I think humans need the affirmation...I did .... I wanted a way to measure my progress....

One of the best complements (though it wasn't meant that way) was when someone spat at me, "It's not me.... you're the one that changed... you just haven't been the same lately! "

Its been tough reconciling my "old" lifestyle with my "new" one.... I'm trying though. A few issues have got me all twisted up trying to figure out how to handle situations..... its hard but I know somewhere in all of this are more and greater lessons. I cling to the Word for strength.

[/QUOTE]
You know that our reality has NOTHING to do with God's reality!
[QUOTE]

I'm so glad you said that!! As I've learned to walk closer with the Lord, I feel more and more "alien" here. I comment often that this isn't real at all.... just a clever illusion of reality warped by satan to drug us into apathy.

Sometimes my boyfriend and his kids look at me like I'm nuts.....


I've got other things rattling around in my head but not enough time right now. Till later.......


Oh... a quick side note on Proverbs... there are 31 chapters.... so I try to read one every morning..... of course, I can be found forgetting a couple days a week but there is soooo much wisdom there for structuring our lives and walking the straight and narrow... I always see something that speaks to my heart.

the way I see it, Its kind of a mini instruction manual within the full version!


lov4all

Don't get me wrong, I am still working on being a good sacrifice. but what has helped is to see myself as dead to the world, satan, evil, etc. If you are dead, they can do what the want to you and there is no response!! This is a follow up on Romans 6. The only thing that brings a response is God and His will! This is a mind set! A way of looking at yourself! If it's wrong, "Who Me?" "I'm Dead" if it is from God! "Father, what would you have me do!"
justaservant

justaservant, I agree with the "death to self" that is the only way to see God move in our lives.It is a mindset like you say. God must reveal it to us though. We must ask Him to make the principle clear to us, if we do t not have an understanding of it.
Catherine Kuhlman (sp?) always prayed; Lord not a bit of me and a bit of you, but None of me and ALL of You.
Love4all , I love that scripture! But don;t get me started on that one! We can talk about it later in another thread. I will give you a clue though as to what I think and believe re

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Then in :
Revelation 4
1AFTER THIS I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven! And the first voice which I had heard addressing me like [the calling of] a [a]war trumpet said, Come up here, and I will show you what must take place in the future.
God was calling John higher!!...but we can talk about it later if you want to.

Back to Rom 12. 2Do not be conformed to this world (this age), [fashioned after and adapted to its external, superficial customs], but be transformed (changed) by the [entire] renewal of your mind [by its new ideals and its new attitude],

OK, so none of our old thoughts and patterns are allowed.Human ideals must be replaced and our attitude. Well attitude that's a big one for me. I always have to be alert about my attitude. The Holy Spirit convicts right up to the marrow and the bone.
Sometimes I say something and it seems OK to everybody, but God puts His finger on it and will make me aware that I said it for the wrong reasons. Sounded OK to me but then if I listen, He will show me my heart. THEN I have to change, repent and ask for His help.
I am so embarrassed sometimes to tell Jesus, "Please help me to love You, because as a human I am hopeless without You Lord. Even in this ." He even has to create the desire to serve Him in me,or all will be lost. I have to depend om Him for my life.

Preach it brother C....preach it

I don't want to leave one person out here who has responded. I think you have
all preached it right on!!

Oh how I love you all. What you have said has again strengthened my faith.
Dead to self there truly is nothing like it. Letting God take over is the most
I could ever hope and pray for. Your will be done Lord-do a great work in me.

Mold me and shape me into the woman you want me to be.

Corneluis-thank you brother for starting this thread-it is God inspired indeed.
Bless you all and have a great day.

This is the day that the Lord hath made, let us rejoice and be glad in it!

Hello Cornelius,
There is an illustration of that mind set, and God revealing it to us. The Romans back in the time of the early church had a penalty for Homicide! They would tie the corpse of the one killed on to the back of the killer! They would have to wear that body for a period of time.
Romans 6 tells us that our old self is crucified with Christ. It is buried with Him through Baptism into death. Now if you can picture this! For a Christian to go back into the sins that He has been forgiven for, is the same as going back and digging up that rotting, maggot infested, old dead self. Taking that body by the arms. Putting those rotting arms around your neck and wearing that old nature like an overcoat! With this picture, it is very little problem to decide to live a new life!
justaservant

So true brother...when we get a glimpse of just HOW OVERWHELMINGLY OVERFLOWING AND REAL His love for each of us is....how can we ever be afraid...the devil may try to use things and people to shake us up...but it's just like when Peter walked on the water to Jesus...when eyes are on Him...the challenges just become stepping stones to get to Him...but when we look at the challenges, we can't help but sink...because we've lost our focus!!!


All love in Him!!!!
devorah (formerly known as selene)

Now that gives me just a lovely mental picture!


That could definitely provide strength when faced with temptations...

... it makes it so real.

Thanks for the info- interesting and helpful

lov4all

Just glad that I could help!! If you can, read Romans 6 in the Amplified version.
justaservant

Paul had a rebirth didn't he!

He received newness of life through our Lord
What a wonderful concept this is-newness of life! it means
a renewal of the soul. God built enthusiasm into us when
we were created. We should never let it run down. If it
has, it can be rejuvenated.

Our Heavenly Father, we give You thanks for the newness with which
Christianity is filled, sparkling like the dew on the grass in the morning
with newness, freshness,light and power. Grant, O Lord that we whose
lives have become old, tired, weary,dusty,may walk in newness of life
and come out of darkness into Your marvelous light. Through Jesus
Christ our Lord. Amen

From my positive thinking Bible
God is all about the positive isn't He!!

Today I went for a walk with my hubby. I saw God all around us. Such simple
things like going for a walk always refreshes my huband and I.

The sun was shining and we were smiling and talking, having a simple but
good time. We saw God's creatures everywhere. Oh how I pray I will
always notice these things. Never get wrapped up in daily trials.

I want to always have a childlike faith and notice things from my youth!
The bird chirping, cat yawning, dew on the grass, beautiful clouds, sunshne
and on and on.Oh The beauty of our Master painter- our Lord and Saviour

3For by the grace (unmerited favor of God) given to me I warn everyone among you not to estimate and think of himself more highly than he ought [not to have an exaggerated opinion of his own importance], but to rate his ability with sober judgment, each according to the degree of faith apportioned by God to him.

There are some interesting thought here in verse three.

Like Rosie said,Paul had a rebirth. He talks here of the grace of God that was given to him, he warns us . Well this I identify with. I sadly must admit that I have been guilty of this.I know its wrong and then sometimes I just feel, I just don't like that person so much. Or who is he to talk to me like that. Or. that person surely does not LOOK like they know God too well.
I know it stupid to think that and I do not accept the thoughts into my spirit. I have also learnt that one must discern between your own thoughts and those given to you by the enemy.
But not all thought come through the enemy, some are there because our hearts are like that. Therefor Paul warns us not to think of ourselves in exaggerated terms.

We must look at ourselves though. Here the scripture is clear. We must rate our ability. So we have to look and say: Well if I am honest, I look and see that God has blessed me with a gift of giving, or teaching or serving etc. Then I am honest and I am not proud. Its not through my own strength, but though the Holy Spirit's gifting.

Its not prideful to acknowledge the gift of God in your life. I am not saying that you must run out shouting: I am a Prophet!! or whatever. When YOU realise it and start operating in FAITH (to the degree of your faith) in your gift, people will soon enough recognise it. We SERVE with our gifts. (by the way a gift must be exercised in order to grow)

No amount of grabbing will bring a ministry. We must submit to one another.

I submit to a group of believers. I am not running alone. Even on the forum, I am responsible to Shekel. He received the vision from God to open the forum. He is responsible to God for running it. I submit to the opinions of my fellow moderators if they are according to the Word of God. I submit to the Word in all of you when you bring it according to His Word. We are Christ to one another....so I submit to Christ in you.

I want to add something about the degree of faith, mentioned. I think it is like this:
Some , like me have a small amount of faith re my prophetic gifting. Its there, but I am not a prophet. Sometimes I will talk to somebody and God will speak a word. I then say: I feel God is saying this to you...and then tell them what I feel.
Then you get the person who has a lot of faith in his/her prophetic gifting and they will walk out on faith and open their mouths and say "Thus says the Lord!"
I think that is what Paul is talking about. I must operate according to my faith......so I am not ever going out there saying "Thus says the Lord" but I will tell you...."I feel the Lord wants you to know....."

Love yea
C

You are such a blessing. Yes, I want to always have that childlike faith too and re-discover my first love - Jesus - and all the things that we take for granted on a daily basis like the sun shining on our faces and His wonderful creation.

I so desperatley want to be moulded into something worthwhile but have a long way to go. Just living from day to day in this dried up husk of a world can be tiresome but I just hold on to promises that He has given us - a new earth and a new creation!!

Dear Lord, change me, mould me and purify my heart and soul. Take away the bad habits and feelings and fill me with your Spirit, make me feel nothing but love towards my neighbour and continue to bless me with your prescence and this forum.

I love you all

Your comrade in Christ, Sarah x

I am loving being here with all of you. Such like minded family! What a tremendous blessing! Our Lord is truly too awesome for mear words! I too would like the Lord to hear the same prayer from my lips to His ears, that I also continue to be molded into His image, and that His light is the one people see in me, amen.

I feel so blessed to have been led here to all of you! Thank you Lord! I pray that I be found a blessing here to all of you, not that you all just get to bless me! Amen! That would just be fair, true? We all need each other and to let Him guide all of us into "His desires for all our lives", amen. YSIC hannah fievel

Welcome Hannah and Tzeitel to this study

I will be back tomorrow evening (evening for me)
I am out for the day tomorrow ....see you all later..
love Cornelius

Been thinking about this study a bit and come to the conclusion that we have to get the every day things right in order to overcome the major stumbling blocks.

I mean for example, not losing your temper when another car driver cuts you up or makes a rude sign at you, trying not to hate someone when they curse at you or rub you up the wrong way. Being patient with yourself as well as other people, refusing that cigarette or drink, standing your ground for Jesus when others mock Him and your faith.

It cant all be done at once, just clean one room at time and before you know it you got an (almost) spotless house!

Yes Tzeitel, you are right.
I also know that Jesus is coming back for a bride with no spot or wrinkle.
Sometimes I think that is not likely if I look at myself, but then I remember HE is the author and finisher of my faith. HE will see to it that His bride is ready.
C

4For as in one physical body we have many parts (organs, members) and all of these parts do not have the same function or use, 5So we, numerous as we are, are one body in Christ (the Messiah) and individually we are parts one of another [mutually dependent on one another].

6Having gifts (faculties, talents, qualities) that differ according to the grace

This is where a lot of us fall down. We do not run the race like a real athlete. We look around.
If I look at how you run, I fall or slow down.

This body has many part with different functions.

Humans sometimes feel secure if they think everybody thinks and behaves like them.
You can hear it in the advice we give to each other. "You have to lay your hands on them,,,,that's what I do and it works" etc. We need the affirmation of others. Its wrong, if we are running the race well. The Word gives us our route map.

If I am a prophet, I am not suppose to look at how the teacher is performing. (mmmmm he's got 40 more people coming to him, wonder what 's his secret?)
I just have to be what God made me to be.

We need to celebrate that which differ.

Thank God we not all prophets! or teachers, or servant or givers. How poor the body would be.

Cornelius

Ephesians 4:16 (Amplified Bible)

16For because of Him the whole body (the church, in all its various parts), closely joined and firmly knit together by the joints and ligaments with which it is supplied, when each part [with power adapted to its need] is working properly [in all its functions], grows to full maturity, building itself up in love.

Note here that the joints and ligaments are supplied...it does not come with the body parts automatically in the beginning. Read it carefully.
None of us is a joint or a ligament. We are the parts of the body.The joints and ligaments are supplied ...and supplied on a condition!

This to me explains why the body is not as yet functioning as ONE as we are meant to be.
Look at the next part and just visualise the truth of it:
WHEN.....(and I can add ....and ONLY when) EACH part is working properly[in all its functions] grows in FULL maturity, building itself up in LOVE.

Wow, that to me is an awesome truth. We need Jesus to bring us to this point if maturity. We also need to put ourselves into a place, so we can receive this maturity.

Your right.

Everybody's walk is different but we are like sheep, we find it easier to follow the rest of the sheep instead of the Shephard.

I sometimes look at myself and wonder what on earth God wants me for...Im not exactly spotless and still need a lot of work. What we forget is that He is the author of life....he knew us before we were born, knows every hair on our head so He must know what lies ahead of us. He can see the potential but we can't. He has the plan....He knows EVERYTHING.

Talking about being a body part....I think I'm a toe nail...

tears are streaming laughing so hard...really "a toenail"?, well, I guess they are as important as what I told others my part is in the body...I am "an armpit hair"! So we are both small but provide a service, amen!! still YSIC hannah fievel

PS an after thought question, might be worthy of asking on a post....Aren't we who are His already...."in His eyes" without spot or wrinkle? We are covered by His blood are we not? So Our Father who art in heaven, only sees "His blood" covering, so Christians spiritually are already clean, as far as the Father can see, yes/no?

Yes we are clean, but the Word still says: Be ye changed by the renewing of your mind. It is an ongoing process.
If I have to be totally honest here, I have no clue how He will do it. Maybe it will be like you say Hannah, that God will do it, like when Jesus said to the disciples."You are already clean, because of the Word I have spoken to you" (my own rough quote)

In my spirit, I have a picture of the mature Christians walking out into unity. I think they are already there is a way. They pass doctrine.
Like Paul says about not laying the foundations again about baptism etc. but moving on to the meat of the Gospel.There comes a time when you have to settle the doctrines and move on.

We still talk about laying on of hands, about when to baptise. Its OK, because a lot of people still have questions, but at some time, we have to move on.
What is it that Paul wanted to talk about , but said, they are not ready for it ?
There is a walk in Christ, that is beyond our daily experience.
Where faith , meets word and action. Where impossible is not a word anymore, because God said something different.

There is Light in all of us. Glory...and for a reason. Untapped, little understood, because we are still on the milk.
I do pray that our Father, through His Holy Spirit, will help us all to grow into maturity together.
That He will , through His love, teach us through each other on this forum as we submit one to another.
love in Jesus
Cornelius

Sorry to just be popping in and out of this Bible Study! It is really good!! Our minds are constantly being renew by studies like this, by digging into God's Word, not just the popular topics but everything that is written! I stive to be renewed constantly. But the more that I find, the more I realize that there are still volumns that I do not know. Sometimes, even the things that I read, I don't fully understand. I will give this little testimony: I had been completely through the Bible three times from cover to cover before I even had a clue about who God really was and what He is trying to do. I have been through the Bible I don't know how many times, but the more or learn, the more it is impressed on me that I have not yet begun to learn. There is a day coming when God is going to write His Word in our hearts. No one will have to say "Know God." Everyone will know God. How I long for that day!! To know even as I am known!!!
justaservant

You are welcome, justaservant.
I think one of the reasons why the Bible stays new to us , is that it is alive.
How many time have we read a certain scripture and the next time we read it, we see someting that changes our lives !

5So we, numerous as we are, are one body in Christ (the Messiah) and individually we are parts one of another [mutually dependent on one another].

from The Message:

4In this way we are like the various parts of a human body. Each part gets its meaning from the body as a whole, not the other way around. 5The body we're talking about is Christ's body of chosen people. Each of us finds our meaning and function as a part of his body. But as a chopped-off finger or cut-off toe we wouldn't amount to much, would we? So since we find ourselves fashioned into all these excellently formed and marvelously functioning parts in Christ's body, 6let's just go ahead and be what we were made to be, without enviously or pridefully comparing ourselves with each other, or trying to be something we aren't.

I like the way The Message puts it: we give meaning to each other in the body.The hand cannot give, if the arm, does not extend the hand and the arm cannot lift if the shoulder does not support it etc.

A severed body part is a gross thing for us to look upon, yet I have been guilty myself of cutting myself off from fellowship.

I am not saying the formal church is the way to go, but we have to meet with our brothers and sisters in the Lord so that we can be part of the working body.

In the next few verses we are going to look together at some of the gifts.If you read it so long, you will see that you have one or more of them.
Cornelius

just a tip for fast look-up. I use http://www.biblegateway.com

I keep it open in a separate window, so its always there.
C

Me too Corn, I always have that website at hand as well because by the time Ive looked up what I want to find in my Bible the whole world has fallen asleep.

I am going to check that one out. One that I like is www.searchgodsword.org
I, quite often do what you said about keeping that site open, right along with what else I am doing!
Peace
justaservant

I use The Message so we can hear it fresh. I normally read The Amplified.

If you preach, just preach God's Message, nothing else;
OK, so don’t add on to it.

7if you help, just help, don't take over;
Talking to me here. Sometimes the best intentions come out all wrong, because we transgress into the person’s private space .Unsolicited advice.

if you teach, stick to your teaching;

This I do not understand, what if I am a giver as well as a teacher?

8if you give encouraging guidance, be careful that you don't get bossy;
OOOOOOOOO K

if you're put in charge, don't manipulate;
We are not the Potter!

if you're called to give aid to people in distress, keep your eyes open and be quick to respond;
Don’t sleep on the job.

if you work with the disadvantaged, don't let yourself get irritated with them or depressed by them. Keep a smile on your face.
If I do not trust God when I work with the disadvantaged, I will get depressed, for sometimes the situation looks dismal.I have to trust that God will find a way.

9Love from the center of who you are; don't fake it.
Our hearts, the center, I think is the most important place to come to know in our being. Its from there that God operates.

Run for dear life from evil;
By this I understand, not to place myself in positions where I might fall into sin…..because God also says to resist the devil and he will flee from you. I cannot run and resist at the same time. So this one is a situation and not an attack
hold on for dear life to good.
Amen

10Be good friends who love deeply;
AND AMEN


practice playing second fiddle.
Again, submit to one another

I wish I had the time to look for examples in the Bible for all these gifts. I am sure we can find them if we look.

I have been thinking about how I worship. When I think of worshipping God, I think singing and praising Him and honoring Him for everything.

You know when I read Romans 12:20 again. This time I feel that God is saying
you worhsip Me by giving the hungry something to eat, the thirsty something to drink. We are doing this as unto the Lord.

Think about being victimized by pressure-especially thinking of our young people, but of course we can all be pressured.
I believe that the Bible has the answer to every personal and social problem.
And I believe that by using such a great treatment as Romans 12:2, you can cure yourself of being victimized by pressure. Cured by following God

Going to be focusing on this verse for class tomorrow with my two precious gifts from God.

Cornelius you are a blessing and I am getting so much out of the study.
Thanks for showing me Romans 12 again.
Very powerful indeed!

This so rocks!!!!!!!! As I read this, I was reminded of what the Lord said re the 2 greatest commandments...1) to love God with all you are and all you have and 2) love others as much as you do yourself!!!


This has been a really hunger-satisfying study!!!! God bless you all for all you've shared and shown me!!!!!!!!


All love in Him!!!!
devorah

You are welcome devorah.

Rosie, I wanted to do look at this at a later stage, but it keeps on coming up now, so I am going to follow the Spirit in this

.About worship and coming up higher.

I am starting with this scripture that people love to quote :

Isaiah 55:8-9
For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

This scripture we have always read to mean, that God’s thoughts and ways are not for us to understand, and therefore , because we read this, we have an excuse to not inquire anymore. We just sit back.

1 Corinthians 2:16
For who has known or understood the mind (the counsels and purposes) of the Lord so as to guide and instruct Him and give Him knowledge? But we have the mind of Christ (the Messiah) and do hold the thoughts (feelings and purposes) of His heart

OK this scripture provides light for the one in Isaiah 55;8.
So we have the mind of Christ and we DO hold the thoughts , feelings and purposes of His heart after all.
Worship and hearing God's heart ...a relationship. We "come up higher"
A good picture of this is seen in Exodus where the mountain is HIGH and God is giving us the picture of relationship with Him.

Then he said to Moses, "Come up to the LORD, you and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, and worship from afar.

I don’t want to be like the seventy elders who worship from afar.


God wanted relationship and wanted Israel closer to Him , but they feared and withdrew from Him. It’s a sad picture of missing an opportunity with God. This was the turning point in Israel, they decided to listed to God through Moses (the Law) and did not take God’s invitation to listen to His voice.

Ex 19
9And the Lord said to Moses, Behold, I come to you in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with you and believe you and remain steadfast forever. Then Moses told the words of the people to the Lord.

Ex 20
18And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. 19And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.
20And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.

21And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was.

Moses drew near and they stood afar. They SAW and feared. We have to move in faith and not by sight. God said come closer I want to speak so you can hear. They said:" No thanks, speak to Moses and he will tell us" They gave up relationship


Now God told Moses to “come up” to Him. This relates also to Rev 4:

1AFTER THIS I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven! And the first voice which I had heard addressing me like [the calling of] a [a]war trumpet said, Come up here, and I will show you what must take place in the future.
2At once I came under the [Holy] Spirit's power, and behold, a throne stood in heaven, with One seated on the throne!
In The Message Revelation 4 :2 reads
2I was caught up at once in deep worship and, oh!-a Throne set in Heaven with One Seated on the Throne,

So John went up. He worshiped. God's higher way is found in worship. In worshipful relationship we can hear His voice.

When Moses was on the mountain Ex 34 :8 And Moses made haste to bow his head towards the earth and worshipped.


9When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do always err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
11So I swore in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
Worship is one way to know His ways. Without it we cannot move in His ways.In worship, we go higher. Like John and Moses and we hear again from our Father's mouth and heart.

Oh wow, those words hit me hard in the guts.

I am guilty sometimes of the 'worshipping far away' aspect. Its not that my heart isnt, its a human thing that needs to be put right in me.

I have a problem with intimacy, one to one and talking about deep things if you know what I mean. I feel apprehensive and silly but want to lock myself away in my room and get on my knees and talk to God intimatly. I talk to Him throughout the day but dont take 'time out' enough to really seek His face.

I believe the scriptures the Lord put on your heart to quote above is for a reason and its God speaking to us all. He wants more intimacy, not for us to be afraid or embarrassed to approach Him.

Thanks Cornelius for being obedient....you dont realise how important it is to some of us!

Thanks TZ . I can share something that started changing my relationship with God. It was the moment I realised the Kingdom is within.

God is IN you.

So we have to learn to direct our communication towards Him. "Be still and know that I am God" Prayer sometimes is not talking, its being with Him in your spirit. Reach out to Him in faith. Its impossible to please Him without faith. And HE says that when we come to Him, we must believe that He IS. So go to Him with that in mind.

Remember that your heart is the communication center. Your heart section is literally in your solar plexus. Its there that we mostly hear God's voice.Its there that you "feel" Its the location of your spirit.Its from here that we worship as well."Out of your BELLY will flow rivers of living water"
John 7:38
He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Put your hand on your belly and feel the place of your spirit.


Just for interest: Science is now acknowledging that we have a second brain. Its located in your gut. The same amount of neurons as in your brain is located in your gut. Plus it responds to the same medications ex depression medication.

So, what it is, is that when I think about God, talk to Him both in speaking out loud and in my mind...I am still being with Him?

He will never leave you nor forsake you. He is IN you.
Sometimes it feels like He is not there. God does that with all of us. Then you just have to hang in there. Keep your spirit focused on Him and love Him, without questioning the situation.
He will tell you if it is through sin that you don't feel His presence. If He does not tell you anything, He is testing your faith.
Sometimes He stays "away" for a long time, but then , if we handle it correctly, this will be a time of great growth to us.
Keep loving Him, even if you cannot feel His presence.

I especially like this post Cornelius!
It speaks volumes We love to talk about God! We love to find the Scriptures that suit us! The problem is that too often, we see God as this big, huge, loveable, teddy bear! But then God does speak, and we go running and screaming.
There is no doubt that God is Awesome, Frightening, and Powerful!! Oh, that we would just stick around, even if it is prostrate, with our face on the Ground. Just to be in the presence of The Almighty, and heard what He has to Say!
But isn't it really His lovingkindness, that He would put Himself, in the form of the written word, so that we could find Him in a less frightening way!
justaservant

11Never lag in zeal and in earnest endeavor; be aglow and burning with the Spirit, serving the Lord.

12Rejoice and exult in hope; be steadfast and patient in suffering and tribulation; be constant in prayer.

OK, This is speaking to me. I am writing even though I find it difficult to do so today, because I am going through a test .. See I am building a house and the builders have just ruined the whole roof of my house. I must take it down and a new one must go up from scratch.Plus minus $12500 damage. I had a fight with God. I know I am wrong but I needed to vent my frustration. I am still not sure why its happening.I have asked for forgiveness re my attitude to God.

Now I am reading rejoice....(difficult) and exult in hope. I can hope for I know God and He is faithful. I will make a decision to rejoice....

Patient in suffering. I am not impatient, just a bit tired. I am not clued-up in the building industry and I have to trust that people know what they do. Some obviously don't know what they do. In reality in this situation I know I will have patients.

I will pray and wait on the Lord. I have asked my friends to stand with me as well. The enemy is stealing from me and I am claiming it back seven times.My finances with God is on order. Tithing and sowing etc...all in order.



13Contribute to the needs of God's people [sharing in the necessities of the saints]; pursue the practice of hospitality.

14Bless those who persecute you [who are cruel in their attitude toward you]; bless and do not curse them.

verse 13: I have no problem with that.

14. Well, I might as well do it here.

Lord I bless the builders and I am sorry for my anger this morning. I bless them and do not curse them. I give this whole thing to You Lord. Show me where I am doing it wrong.In Jesus Name
Amen

That's the spirit
God bless you and I will pray for you too. God can take something that is evil and turn it into good. Beleive it, receive it...HONOR JESUS, Praise his name.
He works best yes, in our trials. Looking back on your trails throughout life, remember how he brought you through? He wishes to bless us abundantly when we give him our PRAISE...being thankful for he is building his Kingdom within us.
Let those workers see the LIGHT of GOD shining through you, and let them acknowledge their errors and rejoice in honesty. For God is the increase.
GOD BLESS YOU, will pray for your situation.

Cornelius,
I do not know the territory, but there is an American Pastor, that I know as Pastor Bill. I have been getting his devotions for some time, and I know that his heart is good. He is currantly at the Mdanstane church (Near East London, South Africa) They are building there.
If it is possible, contact him and see what he would recommend.
justaservant

wernotalone , thank you for praying and justaservant, thanks as well. East London is very far from where I am....its by the sea

I spoke to my pastor today and he is standing with me in this.

something is up, I also received a call from the taxman, saying they want me to pay my annual tax this month instead of Sept as usual...This info comes 11 days before the end of the month..

They have a saying, that only death and taxes wait for no man. Quess that is really true. Our taxes are also due. I will be praying that your house turns out to be both strong and beautiful.
God Bless you and Peace be to you!
justaservant