I'd like to pose a question to the forum..... do we humans have Free Will or does God lead all of our decisions so that we ultimately have no will of our own and are only acting according to what God has predestined/predetermined?


This question arises from a thread in General Bible Study..." The Wheat and the Chaff". (The latter few posts really get into free will - or lack of.....though its sprinkled throughout)

We appreciate and entreat the council of our fellow christian brothers and sisters.

Thanks ya'll!!


lov4all

We have the free will to choose, though I believe God knows us well enough to know how we will choose.

we have free will.

I am not professing to know everything. But, maybe this is how freewill comes into play...let's say "God has a perfect plan for your life....then as you walk through..."what He has laid before us, we come to forks in the road...we totally have freewill to walk in His will or to choose "not to"! Thank the Lord for His grace!

He calls and not many answer, why? Because "He gave us the freewill to choose Him or not"! Just like Adam and Eve had to have the two different trees in the Garden to pick from, they had "freewill" even though Our Wonderful Lord had a plan for them, they as we know "didn't listen" and since He wanted "children that would choose Him" He had to give them "a choice". Of course in MHO, alot of His children "choose poorly"! Me too! I have made more than my share of boo boo's!

That IMHO, is one reason we are all in the mess we have made of this world. Not God's fault, He said "He would never destroy all of humanity again", which was His promise to Noah. Now we get to destroy ourselves, it's our God given right to "act out" even if it is totally against His will for us all. I guess that is why Jesus had to die on the cross for us fools. God knew what was coming, praise be to Him who has everything under control. Even though we DO have freewill, at least He can fix all of our mistakes and lead us back to HIM. Sometimes though we be stubborn and don't listen, even when somethings are totally for our own good! We need to be praying for this world and everyone in it, amen. YSIC hannah fievel

We have free will.
If we allow the Holy Spirit to guide us through our redeemed spirit, then our soul's free will decisions will be in the Will of God. Therefore, our free will is in conformity with God's will.

The Adversary does not want us to know that our free will is acceptable to God.

Here is an example:

Let's say than on 1/14/06 the Lord sends two angels to my front door who say Behold! thou has persevered, and now thou and thine household are truly blessed of God. And the angels translate us to heaven where we meet all of you and the dead in Christ (who will have risen just before this event). And then after some activities in heaven, we RETURN to earth, glorified in Christ.

Here is what I plan to do. I will go about my city preaching the gospel and delivering the captives by the power of God. Healing the sick, raising the dead, casting out demons. Making my city a city in the KingDom of our God.

And I also plan to make visits to people I have known in the past who live elsewhere.

This is what is meant by free will. I do not have to ask permission from God first to go do (bless) all the things I want to do. All my choices will be in conformity with His Will, automatically, because my soul will obey my redeemed spirit at all times; I am a manifest son of God.

One of the things God wants from His children right now is to USE YOUR IMAGINATION. Remember God has promised us that He can do above all that we can ask or think.

Our ministries will have a strong personal aspect to them; as we do our will. Of course we will bless many people we do not know, but also we will desire to bless people we have known too. And traveling around like that will spread this fire all around the world in a very short time.

God Bless you,
nada

The Lord allows us to choose Him or not, thus inacts our free will. Once we make this choice we then do His will in our lives.

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
Deu 30:20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

Pro 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, [is] from the LORD.

Thank you all for your responses! The scriptures are very beneficial as well.
Anyone else feel led to share your thoughts and/or scriptures.....??

lov4all

We have free will. But God is great. God has foreknowledge of our free will decisions. God knows what we will do, How we will react to His Word. From the foreknowledge He has pre-destined those who will be with Him in eternity.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Oh i just thought i would post this to help explain things. I posted this on another forum a couple of years ago, I hope you get something out of it.

Fate Free will and Predestination

Let us think about Prophesy. If the future can be accurately foretold (which Christians must believe if they agree with what’s in the bible) than we must believe in a type of fate. Now free will supporters will say that yes the future has been foretold in the bible, in the book of revelations, but they are mayor world events, we still have free will on an individual level. So its up to us what our future is

Lets look at the book of Revelation. John was on the island of Patmos when God revealed the future to him, he saw the final judgment in process, now did he see a representation of what was to happen or was he actually transported through time to the final judgment and actually saw the final judgment in progress? You may be thinking what does it matter? Well if he was actually there at the final judgment and saw the great multitude standing before God then he would be looking at real people some of whom would not have been born until 100’s or maybe 1000’s of years after his lifetime. So he was looking at people who had not been born yet, (in his time) that had been born lived their lives believed or not believed, died and raised, which were being judged. He saw the angles dividing the multitudes and casting some into the lake of fire. So even before they were born it was known what choices they were going to make and therefore their ultimate destination.

It may seem to you that I am supporting the predestination view; well in a way I am and in another way I am not. Let me explain. If God knows the future to the detail that I have suggested above, than he knows what choices people will make during their lives even before they are born. So we still have free will it’s just that God already knows what choices we are going to make.

So to use an analogy The history of existence is like a real life documentary and God has got the tape and can F-Forward it and knows the outcome beforehand. The people who are in the documentary are free to say and do what they want and they say and do what they want. From that tape he has already written down in his book (the book of life) who he has selected for his next production and who gets the chop.

I hope I have explained my thoughts clearly enough. I can tell you it’s not easy explaining something like this using words.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Adstar,

Why do you think God had Abraham prove that he would sacrifice Isaac when he already knew What Abraham would do? I'm not challenging you. I sincerely would like to read ideas on this subject.

sojourner

1 Corinthians 1:21 (King James Version)

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

(whistles while looking up)

Yes we do have free will.
As we go through our daily routine.
We have a forked road of decisions to make.
We in Christ all have a final destination.
How fast we get there.
Or how easy it is.
Is up to us.
Remember that God uses our good and bad deeds to bring about His final plan for you and me.
Since God can see future and past in a glimpse.
He already knows our choices.


FEED MY SHEEP !
FEEDME!

when Jesus went into the Wilderness was he a man of flesh and blood or not ?

The very essence of the Sinful Nature is Man's Will .

The very essence of Jesus was that he was sinless . That his Will was in Perfect Conformity with the Father's . Where Satan had succeded with Eve and Adam , he had hit a brick wall with Jesus .

----------------

As for Choices , there are many Choices we can make in this Life , but God is a God of infinite understanding ( Psalm 145 ) .
Sometimes God gives us free rein - ' winks at sin ' , more often it seems he reins us in , disciplines us , because he sees the beginning from the end and determines the course of events , for our GOOD .

I think most people here are comfortable with these things .

But because the word predestinated is in the bible there is a glitch .

God wants everyone to be saved .
Everyone is called to Salvation .
A few are chosen . Some people are marked out . Like the Jewish people .
The Gentiles were called ...........that is why God winked at sin for a while , he wasn't on their case .

Before the Flood God tried to allow man the freedom to choose for himself , and it didn't work .
He had to do that because he is a loving God . He doesn't want to control us . He wants us to be free . But mankind was incapable of choosing wisely .

So after the Flood he created his Chosen People , The Jews , to do some hard tasks .
Even they were useless and he wanted to scrap them , but Moses reminded him of his promise .
The Jews have had a lot less autonomy than the Gentiles . Their card has been marked so to speak , from start to finish .

Believers too have a predestination . We are called to the Kingdom to do works .
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. THere are things God has mapped out and planned for us .

But in the bible there is a feminine principle and a male principle .
A male principle of things that are set in stone .And a female principle of the unexpected .

Usually when women appear in the Gospels , something unexpected happens , like at the Marriage at Cana where Jesus alters the Divine Timetable for his mother .

That is to say that there are things which MUST BE .



And then there are things which are open to us to make happen .

We have free will, but God sometimes over-rules our free-will.

God does not over-rule our free-will in Salvation issues. (Calvinism is wrong).

Predestination is in Romans 8;29 (and elsewhere), but , still, we have free-will in Salvation issues.
God knows the future (even the free-will decisions of un-born people). God is Omni-present in Past, Present, and Future.
Any (and all) people can be Elect, IF (IF) [IF] we choose to believe the Gospel and repent. But, Many reject the Gospel. Few believe the Gospel.

Luke 13;34
Jesus (God) wanted to gather Jerusalem's children around Him, """""""BUT YOU WOULD NOT""""""""!
Calvin's God would never say, "But you wouldn't let Me".

The people of Jerusalem had the free-will to reject (or accept) God. If they didn't get saved, it's NOT God's fault.


God does not save un-repentant sinners.

It is possible for a Saint to grieve the Holy Spirit.

How do we get saved from our sins? "Believe the Gospel and repent from your sins".

Our "Love" for God (and our neighbors) is not (real) love, if we have no free-will.

God TESTED Abraham's faith. God fore-knew the result of the TEST (Abe passed the Test). But, Abe must go thru the Test; It's a part of "maturing in the Faith". Abe learned something from the Test. Issac (and all Bible-readers) learned something from the Test.
God is Testing our faith today. If we obey the Word of God (the NT), then, we've passed God's Test of our faith.
I was extremely im-mature, naive, gullible, etc..... when I was young. Now, that I'm older (and more learned, Spirit-filled, etc), I'm more mature.

How do we gain maturity?
Reading the Bible,
suffering,
struggling with God and men, (read about Jacob/Israel)
the Holy Spirit fingers around our hearts every day,
we learn from other people's mistakes, (and our mistakes),
we learn from our good days, and bad days,


God Tested Job's faith.



dennis manning

Suppose that:
there was never a thorn or thistle,
or weed
or enemy
or liar, thief, murderer,
or false teacher,
or persecutor,
or devil,
or accuser,
or flood, or drought,

..........
Every day is a happy, easy day.

Would I be as mature as I am now?

No

**************
For my own good,
I need to be tested, tried, purified in the furnace,
I need to struggle with God and men.
Iron sharpens iron.
My friends give me constructive criticism.
My enemies try my patience.
The Bible says: Suffering produces character.

***********
And God knows what my destiny is. (gulp!)

dennis manning

Yah , but Dennis , I fully understand your point , and have spent a long time thinking about it .

Now think about a Hen with Chicks .
When she tries to get them in order it is an almost impossible task .
Sheep are prone to herding .......
but Chicks are unmanageable .

And they are programmed that way .....the 'you would not' becomes almost superfluous because a Chick doesn't really have any choice ; it is programmed to run around avoiding being herded .

1 Corinthians 1:20

Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

(whistles again looking up)

God already new what Abraham would do. The whole point was to strengthen Abrahams trust in God. To put Abraham in a position where He had to give up the greatest thing He had (his son) to fulfil the will of God. A lot of people grow stronger in the faith when that faith is exercised in real life. When they come to a real life decision where they have to make a choice between God and this world. As people reach these lines and cross them they become progressively more sold and fruitful in the faith.

As a side point it is indeed interesting that God made Abraham decide to sacrifice His sons life for God, a mirror of what God did for those who believe Jesus.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I am not sure what you mean here simplebaby?

Are you saying that people are as chicks and sheep, that they are pre-programmed?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Free will or god's will? well free will is the only thing that the devil nor god can take or exploit we can even prove everything wrong with yet most of us havent even know how to use it

god and lucifer shows us paths for us to take just like driving when you see 2 roads it might be are road to yes to god or no to the devil and the other one yes to the devil and no to god

think of it this way you see a million dollars just lying around in front of you and is about to fall to the abyss around in front of you and you also see somebody who is about to fall also into the abyss what would you do would you help the guy and loss the money or get the money and leave the guy to fall on his doom

its just like giving your life to god to serve others its just like saying yes to him well if you say no to him its not like saying to the devil well if you kill steal and give in to temptation well thats saying yes to the devil

the point is everything in our lives is in our hands god doesnt interfere cause it violates his word so if we suffer no one is to blame but you well just like a road you never know what will come up while your walking it well suffering give us also strength

what god did to abraham was more likely a teaching and a test whether he was truly faithful or does he really trust him and a teaching because just as jesus said to take up his cross and follow him meaning be prepared to sacrifice everything to follow god

Bogoy, very good analogies here! Thank you for what you said, this is a terrific post!

1 Corinthians 3:19

For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

sorry HB , not worldly wisdom ,but scriptural wisdom :

...is it not true that the world also believes in free will and choice?

Of course HB .

That is why it is easier to talk about Man's versus God's Will .

But God also believes in Choice and Free Will .....

otherwise how else would Paul have said
'Everything is permissable , but not everything is beneficial ' .

The WHOLE POINT of Christ's sacrifice was to set us free from the bondage of the Law .........

Under a Schoolmaster everything is rigidly laid out ..do this do that ...

Whether God knows exactly what we are we going to do next I have no idea .....I don't think about those things ......it gets mind-boggling if you do . Genesis 6 implies that he doesn't , ' he repented making man ' . How could he possibly regret doing something if he knew the outcome precisely beforehand . Some people will shudder and say , ' but god knows everything , ' . Personally I don't know the mind of God . I know he is all wise and of infinite understanding . I know that he is an awesome God who is totally in control of everything .

I also know that he is a God who expects a lot from us .

But those things are best left to God .


Anyhow I am bored of this and won't post any more , its too mind-boggling and philosophical .

You quote scripture, but you speak with worldy wisdom