Pam and l have been talking about this on another string.

I thought it was worth it's own topic.

Especially about the oil in their lamps.

Here's one guys opinion:


Grace & St. Paul's Church

Sermon: Pentecost 25


Twenty-fifth Sunday after Pentecost

6 November 2005

Wisdom of Solomon 6.12-16 | 1 Thess. 4.13-18 | Matt. 25.1-13

Today is the antepenultimate Sunday of the Christian Year. In two weeks it will be the Festival of Christ the King, and another year of grace will draw to a close. My favorite GOSPEL for the end of the Christian Year is St. Matthew’s story of the "Wise and Foolish Bridesmaids," which in turn inspired one of the great hymns about the end of time, Philipp Nicolai’s "Wake, Awake, for Night Is Flying."

In St. Matthew’s story, a wedding is about to take place. All that we’re waiting on is the arrival of the Bridegroom. This, of course, is very different from our weddings today. Today the bridegroom always arrives first, and it’s the bride who keeps everybody waiting. I think the record for nuptial tardiness must have been set by a bride in my last congregation, who was two hours late for the wedding. Actually there are signs that things are becoming more egalitarian. At my last wedding, the bride and bridegroom arrived together–almost an hour late. But in St. Matthew’s story it is the Bridegroom who is late.

Outside the hall, awaiting the arrival of the Bridegroom, are ten bridesmaids. Five of them are foolish and five are wise. In those days there was no electricity and no gas for illumination. If you were going to be out at night, especially this time of year, you had to take along an oil lamp if you wanted to avoid being lost in total darkness. The five wise bridesmaids brought extra oil for their lamps. The five foolish bridesmaids did not bring extra oil for their lamps.

Well, it turns out that the Bridegroom is really late–later even than my record-breaking bride at my last congregation. So late is the Bridegroom that the bridesmaids finally fell asleep. But then at midnight–at midnight!–the ten bridesmaids are awakened by the cry, "Look! Here is the Bridegroom! Come out to meet him." The wise bridesmaids have extra oil for their lamps, so they’re quite prepared to go off into the midnight darkness to meet the Bridegroom and light his way to the hall for the wedding. But, of course, the foolish bridesmaids discover that their lamps are going out. The wise bridesmaids refuse to share their oil with the foolish bridesmaids, so the foolish bridesmaids run off, rather improbably, into the darkness to buy more oil for their lamps. I’m not sure where they’re going to get that oil in the middle of the night. I’m pretty sure they didn’t have any service stations or Seven Eleven stores back then. At any rate, when the foolish bridesmaids finally arrive back at the hall, they find that everyone is already inside and the celebration has begun. When the foolish bridesmaids ask the Bridegroom to let them in, the Bridegroom rather mysteriously tells them that he does not know them.

The general impact of the story, I think, is clear. When Jesus comes, some will be ready and some will not. Some will have the necessary spiritual resources and some will not. Those who are ready and have the necessary spiritual resources will be part of the celebration at the end of time. Those who are not ready and do not have the necessary spiritual resources will be left out–out in the darkness of eternal night. The general impact of the story is clear, but we’re still left wondering how exactly we’re supposed to get ready for the coming of the Lord and what exactly are the spiritual resources that we’re going to need. The ancient Fathers of the Church did their best to answer those questions for us. They didn’t, however, do a very good job of it. Let’s explore the story together, why don’t we?–you, me and the ancient Fathers.

Now, in St. Matthew’s gospel there are five of everything, and St. Matthew likes to multiply things by two. So it’s no great surprise to find two groups of five bridesmaids in his story of the end of time. But some of the Fathers saw here a symbolic reference to the human race. Our humanity–our very special, God-shaped humanity–is symbolized by the number five. In addition, there are five ages in the span of a human life–infancy, childhood, youth, maturity, old age. So the bridesmaids, in a special way, represent the human race.

The Bridegroom is, of course, Jesus. During his earthly ministry, Jesus compared his arrival to the marriage of God and the Chosen People, with John the Baptist being the "best man." In his Revelation, St. John shows us the heavenly city, the New Jerusalem, comprising all God’s Chosen People–Jews and Gentiles both. The New Jerusalem is the Bride of Christ, as Philipp Nicolai says so beautifully in the hymn appointed for this Sunday. And St. Matthew’s story reflects the long–unexpectedly long–interval between Jesus’ resurrection and ascension and his return in glory.

Most of the Church Fathers say that the lamps carried by the bridesmaids represent the human heart. OK. So far so good. I’ll go along with that. But then we run into trouble when we try to figure out what the oil represents. Many of the Fathers are quick to say that the oil represents good works. You gotta have enough good works to earn you a place in heaven. I hope that every Lutheran present in this holy assembly sees a problem with that idea. Even from a purely literary point of view, it’s hard to see how we can have a heart full of good works. You might have your hands full of good works, but a heart full of good works isn’t likely to mean much.

The great St. Augustine, whom I quote to you time and time again because he’s worth quoting time and time again, says that the oil in the story represents love. Love, says St. Augustine, is the highest virtue, and when you pour oil into water, the oil rises to the top. Therefore, the oil in the story represents love. But then St. Augustine gets himself into trouble. He goes on to ask, "Where do we get love?" And the answer is, "Love is a gift of God." Now St. Augustine is in a pickle. Since we gotta have lots of love and love is a gift of God, we gotta somehow, some way, try to get God to give us a lot of it. Otherwise we’re in trouble when Christ comes again in glory. This is not very satisfying.

Even less satisfying is a Church Father named Epiphanius the Latin. He suggests that the foolish bridesmaids have their hearts illuminated by the natural virtues, the virtues that God has placed in the hearts of all people. The wise bridesmaids have their hearts illuminated by the Ten Commandments and the rules and regulations in the Bible. This is not really a Christian interpretation, but it might point us in an interesting direction.

Scripture interprets Scripture. I always tell you that, right? Scripture interprets Scripture. Throughout the pages of the Bible, oil is a symbol for God’s Holy Spirit. This is the case when Moses anoints his brother Aaron with oil to be High Priest of Israel. This is the case when King David says to God, "Thou anointest my head with oil. My cup runneth over." This is the case when Zadok the priest and Nathan the prophet anoint Solomon king with the holy oil. This is the case when the prophet Elijah anoints Elisha with oil to be prophet in his stead. This is the case with the oil that the Good Samaritan pours into the wounds of a dying humanity in Jesus’ parable. In the bible, oil represents the Holy Spirit.

One of the things that God’s Holy Spirit does is illuminate. The Spirit of God brings light. In the Old Testament, the anointed King is called "the lamp of Israel" because God’s Holy Spirit rests upon him. Jesus called John the Baptist a "bright and shining lamp" because of the Spirit of prophecy within him. On the Day of Pentecost, the twelve apostles, the holy women and the Virgin Mary were filled with God’s Holy Spirit and tongues of fire appeared on their heads. When we baptize new Christians, we pour oil upon their heads, the seal of God’s Holy Spirit, then we place a lighted candle in their hands and repeat to them what Jesus says to all the baptized:

Let your light so shine before others that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.

So let’s try this. The five foolish bridesmaids are that portion of the human race that lives the good life, the ethical life, the reasonable life, the moral life, the responsible life. It doesn’t matter much where you get this goodness and morality. You could get it from Socrates, Plato, Seneca or Sun Tzu. You could get it from the Ten Commandments, from the social concern of Israel’s ancient prophets, from the ethical admonitions of St. Paul. Any of the above will illumine the heart and inspire good works. But the five wise bridesmaids are the baptized. St. Augustine was right–oil does float on water–God’s Holy Spirit floats on those who are baptized. The Spirit of God illumines our hearts with a light that will light our way through the darkness of death, and the words of love inspired by God’s Holy Spirit are hard currency in this world and the next.

My advice would be to keep God’s Holy Spirit pouring into your life. Return to your Baptism every day through repentance and prayer. Stay close to this holy assembly and to the bread and wine that anticipate the marriage supper of the Lamb. Then, when at last "midnight hears the welcome voices," we, too, will wake from the sleep of death and hurry to meet the Bridegroom, Jesus Christ our Lord, to whom with the Father and the Holy Spirit be all honor and glory, now and forever. Amen +

Aren't Jews?

Well then you think that they would have to be part of the world and not the church...?

I don't think the scoffers were unbelievers...(unchurched unbelievers) I do not see unbelievers who would say any thing about His return...

I figure the word says "they all slept" (the spiritual sleep of unbelief for the foolish and of laodicean qualities for the believers) but the foolish ones had no oil...they lost the power of the Spirit because they heard and even said this as in Peter...

2Pe 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in [both] which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: 2Pe 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: 2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation. 2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Seems so Maz...

but...but...but....I am part of the Bride....not the bridesmaids!!!

Would you also liken the bridesmaids that weren't ready to those who say, Lord, Lord! and he says, depart from me...I know you not?

I think that the majority of us here are part of the bride.... that's why we're here...we're watching! Not sleeping...

Yes..

Hey Miki

I enjoyed reading what you posted. The only thing so far, that I do not agree with is calling them bridesmaids, why? Because it takes the watchfulness out of it. They were not part of the "wedding party", ie...bridesmaids...They were the Bride and general church. But other than that, it was great.

The oil is what lights the lamp. The oil is the fuel that the wick soaks up ti shine so brightly that even when it gets dark you can still find your way....

The oil is word of God. If you get the word in you and recieve revelation knowledge of it your able to let you light shine before the world AND your going to be part of the Bride of Christ.

because does it call them virgins?

Romans 13:11-14 talks about: "now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light."

Oh brother marcus

The ultimate twist!!

Of course we're waiting for Christs return as an ultimate end!!! Do you think we're enjoying this life?

Those who love their life will loose it.

The normal Christian life is sitting there doing nothing.

The ones that are watching are getting ready are waiting!!!...and you know it.

what? splane that a little better Lucy....

But that church in 1844 did not understand the signs of the times. The Lord is revealing Himself through the word in a greater way, because this the time for that. I have always said, that most people are numb to His return because of the past preaching on His return is tomorrow, type of thinking before the prophecies come/came to pass.

The things we do now: Let me ask you this: Are you doing more things now for Jesus then you did say 10 years ago? If so, would you want your lessor work to judge the same as your greater work?

I think this is what you inquired about....

Miki, did you send simplebaby to read the post we started on the 10 virgins. If not I think it would shine some light on what we are talking about. You have to understand justification and sanctification simplebaby to see the understanding of where Miki is coming from....I hope this help....peace to you.

Thanks Pam...l was too tired to address it.

I'm not the one embittered Marcus.

You've called good bad and bad good. Riddle? I don't think so. Because l'm eagerly awaiting Christs return and doing as l am commanded when it says "when you see these things come to pass look up for your redemption draweth nigh" that's not being asleep. How can l look up if l'm sleeping????

Why is it the you can't get it through your head that just because people are awaiting Christs return doesn't mean there standing around with their thumb in their mouth!

I'm waiting and watching and working out of love and have been a witness to that for a long time and you know it And there are 10s of thousands just like me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

_________________________________________________________

We had a Celebration Dinner at our church before Christmas. We have a wonderful Hispanic community in our town...They have been our servants all year.
By that l mean Americas servants.

Now at Christmas we had an opportunity to serve them. The line up at the door began at about 8:30 am. Even though the doors didn't open until around noon. They stood waiting all that time because they know they will get the best gifts for their children if they are early, as this is a dinner and a gift give away.

God used this to show me that we have served him too. We are his servants and there's coming a celebration dinner in heaven as well. Those anxiously awaiting the door to open will receive an extra gift...

So l'm sure some eyes could twist the giving of our church in this way to be socialisticly deplorable... but not God. He saw it for what it was...an act of love and reward from those who have much to those who have little.

They could look at the people lined up at the door as pathetic fools waiting for a free hand out.... but not God

Those who love him are anxiously waiting for the door to open.

That's what he showed me...A simple parallel between what our church was doing and what he is about to do for us and ya know what?!

l want to be a servant like many of the Hispanics have been.

I desire the kingdom so much...just like the Hispanics desire the American dream...that l'm willing to be a servant just to have it.

And when the Celebration Dinner comes and the gift give away comes...

When the reward of heaven is offered....

l want to be lined up at the door eagerly waiting. Just like them! Not at home getting a extra wink and facing the possiblility of missing out.

Simplebaby said:

But 5 have got distracted .......they've neglected to top up .........they've forgotten the Christian walk .............all they can think about is the return of the Bridegroom .

But the Bridegroom has TARRIED ........so they've sat about twiddling their thumbs .......neglecting their Christian Walk ......because all they can think about is the Bridegroom returning .

Its such a simple message such a simple warning ........please don't come back at me with riddles Miki .


Don't be the evil servant whose shattered expectations have made embittered
___________________________________________________________
See you're describing how you see people who are anxiously waiting Christs return as evil. And all l'm telling you is that it's a spin and a not true and l've witnessed it over and over again. You want to pretend like everybody who's waiting is a fool who does nothing and it's not true. And you know it.


And my post wasn't bizzare at all. It was right on the money.
God showed me a picture of the Celebration Dinner.
I saw it and you didn't.

See l'm one of the 5 you called an evil sevant because l'm anxiously awaiting his return...some how in your mind l'm standing around twiddling by thumbs like tweedle dee and tweedle dum.



And poor old stupid me. Jesus isn't going to show up when l think so in your presumtious estimation l'm going to fall asleep.

Why can't l be like you...? Walking around like business as usual. You think that's a light!?!?
If he comes oh well.

You look at the sky and know what the weather is like but can't read the writing on the wall.

No..I want to shout it from the roof tops...get ready, get ready. Make straight the paths. Trim your wicks and turn up the light.

I'm looking up.

I can't look up if l'm asleep. And it's not bad. It's good and obediant.
I'm one of the ones lined up at the door waiting.

You've completely missed the point of the parable .

BUt who cares !!

No dah???
I don't think so...





You don't think your going to be at the celebration....? Then l've got a prayer for you to pray..

And you don't have to throw the dig in that l 'know when it is' because l don't.

And just because l don't doesn't mean my faith will be shaken and l will fall asleep.
Don't underestimate us.

Miki and simplebaby hold one guys...back up alittle bit....

Lord, bring peace to their words and allow the truth of your Word to come in and bring your revelation knowledge to them. amen.

Pamela shared this wonderful teaching on the subject. (hope l've included it all Pam)

....Matthew 25:1: "At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.

The first thing we see is that the kingdom of heaven will be like 10 virgins and ALL 10 of of them are representative of the kingdom of heaven.
It also says they took their lamps and went forward to meet their bridgegroom.
This is talking about a future event when Christ was speaking, because He was speaking about His return.
So, they took their lamps and went forward to meet their bridegroom: This tells us that ALL 10 virgins had the DESIRE to be part of the bride...(relates to when we first come to Christ a new born believer is on fire for God.)
Remember though that not ALL believer's will be part of the bride because they are saved, their happy, and their going on to do what they want, they are still children of God. (When we are first saved we are under a grace period, then the first trial comes along and this determines those that are part of the general church and The Bride.)
The 10 virgins are not the wedding party, (bridesmaids) because if they were they would be waiting for the bride not the bridegroom.
Who are they waiting for? The bridegroom because they want to be part of the bride.
It says they took their lamps, and what do lamps represent? In Matthew 5:14-16 it says: "You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.
It says that we are the light of the world, we are a lamp, our witness, our testimony is a light unto the world. This is our confession before the world.
Just because we have a lamp, it doesn't mean it's burning bright or even burning at all. Some believer's that we've seen and sometimes experience in our own lives, were a light at all. More like a sack of rocks that weighed you down.

So, these 10 virgins took their lamp and went forward. Ten is the number of testing to see if we fit the criteria. For example Duet. 4:13: He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stones.
Ten is the number of "right criteria" so do we fit the right criteria?
Another example is found in Gensis 24:2-4: 2-He said to the chief servant in his household, the one in charge of all he had. "Put your hand under my thigh. 3 I want you to swear by the Lord, the God of heaven and the God of earth, that you will not get a wife for my son from the daughters of the Canaanites, amoung whom I am living. 4 but will go to my country and my own relatives and get a wife for my son Issac."
Abraham sent his chief servant out to find a bride for his son, Issac.
Get these pictures now: God the Father sends out the Holy Spirit to prepare a Bride for His Son, Jesus. He's the one who has been entrusted with preparing the Bride.
It says the chief servant who was entrusted to rule over everything he had was sent out to prepare and find a bride for his son. In verse 4 is says he goes into his own country to get a wife for his son.
Why would this make sense? Because we are all related to Christ through the Father, we have the same Father.
Skip to verse 10 in Gensis 24: it says; Then the servant took ten of his master's camels and left, taking with him all kinds of good things from his master. He set out for Aram Nahariam and made his way to the town of Nahor.
It says he took all the goods of his master, why? Because God has devoted everything to prepare His Bride. He gave His own Son, so He could bring forth a Bride.
In verses 11-13 it says; he had the camels kneel down near the well outside the town; it was toward evening, the time the women go out to draw water. 12 Then he prayed, "O Lord, God of my master Abraham, give me success today, and show kindness to my master Abraham. 13 See, I am standing beside this spring, and the daughters of the townspeople are coming out to draw water.
Now listen for the criteria of the BRIDE: Verse 14 says May itbe that when I say to a girl, 'Please let down your jar that I may have a drink,' and she says, 'Drink, and I'll water your camels too'--let her be the one you have chosen for your servant Issac. By this I will know that you have shown kindness to my master."

The criteria for the Bride was not only would she provide water for the chief servant but for all the 10 camels as well. This is the love, compassion, mercy, and grace that shines through, that lamp, that light. The extra mile is pressing into God, not through your own self-efforts. Allowing God to build you and not man. The extra mile is, when God is working in your heart and you're willing to do this even when it hurts and your denying yourself. Rebekah not only gave him water but the camels as well with out complaint or questions asked. It is the desire of servant hood.
If you cannot be a servant for your fellow man, without complaint, how then can you be a servant for God?
She provided what was needed and so does God. All we have to do is have the desire to want to, and then allow the Holy Spirit to manifest it through us.
Another example is Ruth. Remember Boaz desires to redeem Ruth and her family. But there was another kinsmen that needed to first take the right, and receive the priviledge and opportunity of redeeming Ruth and her family. What did Boaz do? Ruth 4:1-3 Meanwhile Boaz went up to the town gate and sat there. When the kinsman--redeemer he had mentioned came along, Boaz said, "Come over here, my friend, and sit down." So he went over and sat down. 2 Boaz took ten of the elders of the town and said, "Sit here," and they did so. 3 Then he said to the kinsman--redeemer, "Naomi, who has come back from Moab, is selling the piece of land that belonged to our brother Elimelech.
We see here that there is 10 men with the right criteria to say yes and there were witnesses.

Back to the 10 virgins: We see that they have the right criteria. Matthew 25:2: Five of them were foolish and five of them were wise.
What's interesting is that all 10 are virgins, why? Because when we recieve the Lord as our Savior and when we are born again, Christ enters into our spirit and we're justified before God the Father.
Judicially, we are made perfect. In our spirit we are made perfect.
Have you ever been to a church and seen those of the redeemed of the Lord being foolish? Five are foolish and five are wise.
Matthew 25:3 The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them.
Why do you think they took their lamps but not any oil with them?
First thing is they went out in the daytime: Representative of when we first come to the Lord, the light enters and darkness flees.
If you had a flashlight in the daytime would you be worrying about batteries at that given moment? No, because you can see, its daylight and your thinking everything is alright.
They thought it was foolish to be carrying around these lamps and extra oil.
It was like they were pretending picture them saying this: Yeah, we got a real good witness here and as long as it doesn't get dark we will be just fine.
They probably didn't realize that it was going to get dark: Picture them saying this: I can see exactly where I am walking.........I don't need a lamp......
This is not concluded from the foolish because of their lamps shining, it was because it was still bright outside. (No trail came about yet to test it)
This is how it is with us: We think we have a closer walk with God than we have until it starts to get dark, trials. All of a sudden we realize our lamps are not burning bright. So, God allows us to go through trails to wake us up and to make us realize, are we holding onto our lamp and did I bring any oil to refill it when it runs low?
Matthew 25:4 The wise, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps.
The wise ones took oil in their jars.

Part 2............
What takes tremendous character is when people hurt us or when we go through trials and our response is LOVE.
So, they had vessels and these vessels were able to contain the oil.
Look in 2Tim. 2:19-21: Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are his," and, "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness." 20 In a large house there are articles not only of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay; some are for noble purposes and some for ignoble. 21 If a man cleanses himself from the latter, he will be an instrument for noble purposes, made holy, useful to the Master and prepared to do any good work.
This is speaking about the foundation of God. If you are born again then Christ is in you and He knows you. Unfortunately, not eveyone who knows the Lord walks the way God wants them to.
Prepared unto every good work...How is our vessel? Is it refined and purified as gold and silver? Or is it as wood and clay full of impurities?
As we allow Christ to live through us, His character becomes evident in our soul and it begins to show, shine, outwardly. That is the burning oil........amen....
Some people have the nature of Christ but they don't want to allow the developement of the character of Him into their souls, why? Because it is a difficult process of denying the flesh and getting intimate with God. This shows who we really are in Him.
Those characteristics are found in Hosea 2:19-20 and it speaks about the characteristics of the Bride. It says: I will betroth you to me forever; I will betroth you in RIGHTEOUSNESS and JUSTICE, in LOVE and COMPASSION. 20 I will betroth you in FAITHFULNESS, and you will acknowledge the Lord.
The five wise virgins had these and the foolish did not.
Remember the right criteria: If you're in love with Jesus, you're there, BUT, then He's going to start moving you forward. Example: We can say, " I love you Lord!" "I just love you God!" But when someone offends or hurts us, then and not until then, do we see how much we really love the Lord, why? Because acknowleding the Lord requires death to our flesh. If our emotions, which are ran but the soul, jump out, then we are being guided by the flesh and not the Lord.

Matthew 24:12; Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold.
The true love of God will carry us through when everything around us grows wicked.
People read about the injustice in our society, or they read about the way the government is not righteous, or they read about people gettting away with hideous crimes, or when you get taken advantage of: What then happens to your heart? The foolish: their hearts grow cold, bitter and dark.
The wise: Love abounds and their lights shine.
The sin around us is not meant to quench the love in us, it is meant to enhance it and purify it.
When you have the love of Christ in you and when you become offended, hurt, discouraged, or dishearted, that love will continue to strenthen you.

You know the only time a believer can come to the full reward, the 100 fold, is with the rest of the Body of Christ. Eph.4:16: From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grow and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.

Matthew 25:5 The bridegroom as a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.
What's going on here? Why did the bridegroom take long? If he had came quickly would that have been better?
2Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
It is God's will for ALL to become part of the Bride, so He gave them a greater chance to prepare by taking a long time. He is waiting for more of His children to catch the vision.
THe other aspect of sleep is called not being watchful.
Matthew 25:6 "At midnight the cry rang out: 'Here's the bridegroom!' Come out to meet him!'
When did the he come? Midnight....Why? Because you need your lamps at midnight.
A hundred years ago to tell a Christain apart from someone who was not was much more difficult. As time passes by there is a greater difference seen by those that are willing to allow Christ to shine forth in them. It is much clearer to tell the difference.
Matthew 25:7 "Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps.
They trimmed their lamps and tried to light the fire.
Matt.25:8 The foolish ones said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.
Two things: the foolish said to the wise, 'give us some of your oil.' You cannot live off of someone elses anointing. Remember 2 in the field, two men sleeping: one will go and one not.
It won't matter how close you are to those anointed people, it has to be your own anointing.
Just like in Noah's day. When the rain came it didn't matter how close those outside snuggled up to the ark, if they were not inside, they were in trouble.
The five foolish didn't have the understanding of being sanctified, they were happy with just being justified.
The second thing is their lamps were going out. What happens to the wick when it does not have any oil to burn? Only the wick burns until the residue of the oil burns off or the wick burns to the end of its life and is no longer. This is what happens to those who are just playing a game and pretend to serve God and only do it for a big show and want others eyes on them.
Also, this is when God tells us you don't have enough oil yet, you don't have enough character yet, and you don't have enough of the anointing yet so God allows us to go through trials and tribulations to wake us up so when midnight comes we will be ready and the oil jar is full.

Matthew 25:9 " 'No,' they replied, 'there may not be enough for both of us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.
You cannot live off of someones anointing, it must be your own.
It says, go buy some from those who sell oil: How do you but it? Justification is free, its the gift of God, not by works so no man shall boast. We receive this gift when we confess our sins and ask the Lord into our lives. That's it for justification.
It talks about rewards, our inheirtance and working out our own salvation with fear and trembling. It costs us everything to be a disciple, it cost us nothing to be saved.

Matthew 25:10 "But while they were on their way to buy oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was closed. Look at Revelation 19:7 Let us rejoice and be glad and give Him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb had come, and his bride had made herself ready.
The ones that can come in were the ones that were ready. At what point in scripture does this take place? The rapture is for the Bride, those that were ready. Some reading and thinking that the Bride and the church is the same thing I ask how can this be? If even in heaven you stand and face the Lord the turns His back on you and tells you I know you not. You respond, but Lord did I not cast out demons in your name......... Even then those that thought they were in were not. There is a select that gets to go first in the rapture to prepare for the general church to come.
Matthew 25:11-12 "Later the others also came. 'Sir! Sir!' they said. 'Open the door for us!' 12 "But he replied, 'I tell you the truth, I don't know you.'
Did that mean they weren't saved? No, remember He comes first for the Bride, the marriage. He does not know them because they were not ready. The door was shut just like on Noah's ark.
Matthew 25:13 "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.
The word here is WATCH. Remember there are 5 characteristics that God wants to develop in believer's. Watch and be ready...

Just wanted to say thank you Miki, that was just a wonderful lesson! Thanks so much, YSIC hannah

Hanna that was Pamela who offered that teaching.

What does YSIC mean?

your sister in Christ...I think

Hello to all. This is a wonderful study you are putting forth. Praise the Lord!

Now listen carefully, and the Lord will tell you the meaning of this parable, for I believe God did reveal its meaning in my heart, and only just now.

The wise bridesmaids are the ones who believed in Christ by a different understanding of the Gospel. They have received a mature understanding in a deeper meaning of who is God and what the Lord's message is for his salvation. This deeper understanding it their extra oil.

The five foolish bridesmaid are the ones who did not look deeper into God meaning of his word. They followed the doctrine of religion thinking that that is the way to God. But, this doctrine did not fulfill them. They became confused and unenlightened. There oil became shallow.

Now the reason why the five wise bridemaids could not give their share of their oil to the five foolish ones was not because the wise ones were selfish or worried that they would not have enough oil. It is because the foolish ones would not listen to tho the wise ones who had the deeper understanding of God's word. The foolish bridesmaid also saw the signs of the Lord's return and looked back to their religious ways, which has no oil; they groped in the dark looking for more oil.

It is like one who has abundant oil and is offering it to others but others would not take it. The oil is understanding the Lord's word. The more you have the deeper the understanding. But people have their own beliefs and say "No thanks, I'll just keep it the way I understand it" not realizing their oil is shallow. That is how the foolish bridesmaid could not get oil from the wise bridesmaid.

When tribulations comes many will find their oil low in the religion they have followed, and for others whom the Lord has given them much oil will be sustained through their troubles.

I just have to correct this, they were virgins not bridemaids. But yes, you have it right Humble Bob. Only to say this, it was a deeper relationship with the Lord by way of seeking Him and receiving His revelation. It is like this: You know when you receive understanding and you go OOHH! That's what that means, and you feel it become life to your bones. NO devil/no man/woman can steal it from you. God made it yours. The 5 foolish virgins just did "their time," and when the time got dark, they didn't get the better part. No, they didn't go to hell because they were justified because they believed. I personally partake in the cup in what God has for me, because He has captured my heart in such a way, I won't let it go. I love Him with such a passion it is unlike anything on this earth, or what it can give me. The revelation that I have received is what I share with you guys on these threads. My prayer is that this thread be woven in an understanding to those that read it so it may be sown in furtile ground that banishes the weeds and destoyes the work of the devil. GOD ROCKS

its quite revealing how we keep calling them Bridesmaids .

It just shows how easily and quickly a corruption gets passed on .

You're right.

...that has been the whole point in the other thread (The Wheat and the Chaff). To understand the deeper meaning of God's word is to look pass the surface of what you read; any child can read the message, but only when you have matured in God's word can you understand it! Then his whole word is revealed, and his message of salvation is so much more than we had thought, for every passage in the Bible comes through and it flows like clear water into a beautiful stream.

But there is a key element that must be learned first by all. I will not steal the thunder that God has now past onto Lov4all. She must make her post!!!

HB

If you could see me right now know that I am clapping praises to the Lord...
Revelation Knowledge is what gives you the water to drink so you may never thirst again. amen....

Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,
Knowledge, Wisdom, and Understanding to all through the LORD Jesus Christ.

The VIRGINS represent ALL that have had an experience with Jesus Christ.

The WISE are those that do the will of God Mat.7:24 He hears instruction and refuses it not. Prov.11:30 He wins
souls. Prov.11:30 They are the wheat Mat.13:23 and they bear good fruit.

The FOOLISH are those that do not the will of God. Mat.7:26 They hide their talent and are wicked and slothful. Mat.25:26 They are the chaff and bear no fruit. Mat.13:22 Because the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of RICHES, and the lusts of other things enter in..choke the word and it becomes unfruitful. Even that which they SEEM to have will be taken away.

Herein is the Father glorified that ye bear much fruit. Fruit that remains. You shall know them by their fruits. An evil tree cannot bear good fruit neither will a good tree bear evil fruit. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things. Preaching the Rhema Word of God brings forth good fruit, wins souls, and that man is pruned so he can bring forth more fruit.

At the coming of the Bridegroom only those that are not omitting the weightier matters of God's Law (Judgment, Mercy, and Faith) will go in. To those without the
extra oil (the meat of God's Word) the door will be shut! They are damned. The time to "buy" of Him gold tried in fire (Rev.3:18) is now for
when the cry goes out "the bridegroom cometh" it will be too late.
The Holy (Rhema) Word of God is the oil. The oil in the lamp is the milk of the word. The extra oil is the meat of the Word.
Isaiah 28:9
Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand *doctrine(the message)? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn
from the breasts.
The "breasts" are the churches of man that are full of mixture and heresy.
2Cor.6:17
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the *unclean(forbidden) thing; and I will receive you,

Heb.5:13,14
For every one that uses milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness:
for he is a babe.
But strong meat belongs to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses *exercized(trained) to discern both good and evil.
The day of the LORD is darkness. Amos 5:18,20 and Zeph.1:15

Psalm 119:105
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Those that are not weaned from the milk..drawn from the breasts are those that
will be deceived in these last days and will not endure until the end.
They are the wicked, slothful, and unprofitable that decided to keep 'their' life and
not pick up the cross. They want to serve two masters but Jesus said, Mat.6:19-24 no man can. You cannot serve God and mammon(riches).
John 8:31b
If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

The days of Mat.24:5,11,24 are here!

Got oil?

Peace,Tom

Matt 25;1
and verse 7
and verse 11
virgins , (in the Greek), means "a virgin, one put aside"
as per my Concordance


these virgins (all ten virgins) had oil, and light
all ten went to meet the groom (christ)
oil is symbolic of the Holy Spirit (traditional, mainstream thought)

verse 12
Jesus said "I don't know you"

verse 13
be active, every day, because you don't know when Christ will Return.

***********

all ten were saved (or on track to be saved)

but, the 5 foolish virgins lost their salvation, their oil (Holy Spirit) ran out, they didn't "be active" every day, they drifted away from the Faith, they became castaways (1 Cor 9;27)

Rev 2;5 Amplified Bible
the 5 foolish virgins fell away from their first Love and their first (good) works. Jesus told them to "Repent! and return to your first love and your first works". Jesus removed the Lampstand from the 5 foolish virgins.


When Jesus (the groom) returned, the five foolish virgins were un-saved. They had no Holy Spirit at all. The Spirit had departed from them.

And , of course, if this is true, this is a direct contradiction of Eternal Security, OSAS, and Calvin's "Perseverance of the Saints".

************

the grain offering in the Old Testament:

the fine flour was spread across the altar.
oil was mixed into the flour, and oil was poured on top of the flour (the flour was "baptized with the oil")
The grain (flour) symbolizes Christ.
The oil symbolizes the Holy Spirit.
Christ told us "I am the Bread from Heaven".

When the OT priest poured the oil on the flour, it was a symbolic "picture" of Christ being baptized with the Holy Spirit.
And we Christians are "in Christ".


See "Devotions for Growing Christians", by Dr. David Reid.
Westerly, Rhode Island.
on the net

David Reid teaches OSAS, but, other than that, he's a good Bible teacher.



******************
How do I avoid becoming a "foolish virgin"?
Be Faithful to the Spiritual Word of God!




dennis manning

Dennis,

I never caught the following before...

Matt 25;1
and verse 7
and verse 11
virgins , (in the Greek), means "a virgin, one put aside"
as per my Concordance

Thanks...the called out ones...They were saved. Their lamp just went out.

Jesus says...I'll not loose a single one of mine! Is that good news or what.

Here is the example:

Ever hear some one say this to someone they're disappointed in:

"I don't know you anymore." You stand there and look at the person and can't believe how they've changed. It's like you don't know them anymore. It's how the Lord sees us when we aren't walking according to the spirit as Adstar was saying in his post on Romans.

Here's a quote of the post:

Thanks guys! I needed that! I must be doing something right because the hounds of hell are always sniffing my path. You know them...the counterfeit companion.
Ever present trying to wear us down. Thanks Tigger (and thanks Tylenol) Little helps along the way make this temporary life a tad easier.

Adstar's post says:

Romans 8

1 "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you".

I know this is a little off topic but l wonder if the red part above would be an argument for the mind being a bridge between the soul and spirit. We talked about this in another string. Something Dennis brought up.

Man is triune also..body soul spirit...I contended that soul was composed of the emotions personality and the mind....then l back tracked a little and wondered if the mind might in fact be a bridge between the soul nature of man and the spirit living with in him...then l posted those pictures of the Royal Gorge Bridge.

Because what a gap! What a gap.... And every once and a while a hand comes up to derail the process....and sometimes fog rises up from the canyon below and we can't see what's in front of us....and we have to walk solely by faith...

but then the wind comes.

We don't get to cross over the bridge. The river... Jesus is our bridge and he uses his word as our guild post. He is the living word.....

If we stay on the other side and miss the rapture are we dead forever? You contend yes...You have a strong argument but it's not set in stone and neither are the hardened hearts. The great trial that's coming...the fire...both literally and of his Spirit will burn the chaff away. Will his Spirit still be there to replenish the oil after the rapture?

It has to be....because the Jews at that time are a witness to the entire world. You can't be saved without grace and mercy...So logically it wouldn't make sense.

Backsliders get another chance but there will be great temptation to follow after the evil one....Who can make it?

You have those that ask, seek and knock

You have those that just warm the pews, but are saved

Then you have those that are of the world and are unsaved

You have those that are 5 wise

You have those that are 5 foolish

You have those that are adulter, fornicators, and the such...(unsaved)

One step seems to be being missed....

The Bible never tells us to be "Baptized with the Holy Spirit".

But,
The Bible tells us to be "Filled with the HS".

*************

So, we know that the Baptism of the HS is a one-time event.

and
the Filling with the HS is a repeated event.

**********

The Baptism of the HS is a one-time event, on Pentecost AD 30, when the Body of Christ was Baptized with the HS .

Today, when a person gets saved, he is Baptized with the HS, but the actual event took place on Pentecost AD 30.

*************

Anointing is either
1) material (with oil, in the OT)
or
2) Spiritual (with the HS, in the NT)



In the OT, a Deliverer was promised: the Messiah is the Anointed (psalm 2;2)
daniel 9;25, 26
isaiah 61;1 His Anointing was Spiritual, with the HS.

john 1;41
acts 9;22
acts 17;2,3
acts 18;4,28

john 1;32,33
acts 4;27
acts 10;38


2 corinthians 1;21
Christians are Anointed (Spiritual anointing) with the HS by God.

"Anointing" expresses the sanctifying influences of the HS upon christians

***********

ALL NT believers are:
Indwelt by the HS (Romands 8;9)
baptized with the HS,
priests and kings before God,
Anointed with the HS


************

NOT all christians are:
apostles,
prophets,
teachers,
miracle-performers,
divine-healers,
tongue-talkers,
etc
1 Corinthians 12;29,30


**********

Let's try to keep it Biblical, folks.

dennis manning

In the OT:

Psalms 2;2

Why does the OT say that the Messiah would be "Anointed"? (baptized with oil, or baptized with the HS)?

???????????????????

Because the Messiah would be a MAN!
a MAN who is baptized with the HS!

a MAN who is drenched, filled, soaked full of, the HS (GOD)!

a MAN who IS God!

Wow!


****************

Daniel 9;25,26

the anointed one (the God-man) will be cut off (killed).

How can God die????????????

A Trinitarian God (Father, Son, and Spirit) might could do the trick.

**************

john 1;33
John the Baptist baptized with water.

Jesus , the Anointed One, baptizes with the Holy Spirit.

So,
Jesus is baptized with the HS, and ...........He baptizes us with the HS!
Praise His Beautiful Name!

************
2 Corinthians 1;21
God has consecrated and anointed us -----enduing us with the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

****************

To be sure:
This "baptism of the HS", this "anointing",.......... is synonymous with the "Spiritual birth from Heaven" (born again, born from above).

Nicodemas, ye must be born again!



dennis manning

Romans 8;9
ALL Christians (ALL Saints, ALL NT believers) are baptized with the Holy Spirit,
and anointed with the Holy Spirit,
and "born again" (a Spiritual birth from Heaven),

whether they realize it or not.
whether the Tongues-Talking Super-Christians agree or not.

When a person believes and repents, God places him within the Body of Christ. And the Body of Christ was "baptized with the Holy Spirit" on Pentecost AD 30.

I've found that Many of the Tongues-Talking Super-Christians on this Forum have a VERY low view of Scripture. They think that they can twist and break the Scripture, anytime they want to.

Romans 8;9

***********************

On Day 1, when we first get saved, how do we KNOW that we're saved? By faith in the Word. If we believe God and repent, then we are saved.

Later, how do we KNOW that we're STILL saved? By Faith in the Word (Bible).
If we believe God and repent, then, we are saved.

So,.......who needs OSAS?
What good is the (false) teaching of Eternal Security?
If I lose my faith, how will I believe the (false) doctrine of Eternal Security?
If I stop believing, how do I know that I ever got saved (on Day 1)?

My words and deeds (life-style choices) reveal what I believe.
So,.......If I believe (with saving faith), then my deeds will conform to whatever the Bible says.

************

Ephesians 1;13 amplified bible
you were stamped with the seal of the Holy Spirit
verse 14
the (Holy) Spirit is the guarantee of our inheritance, in anticipation of its full redemption and our acquiring complete possession of it...........

The NT says "Work out your Salvation with fear and trembling"

How do we reconcile the above verses?
Why fear and tremble, and work out our salvation? If we're already GUARANTEED and SEALED?

I don't have ALL the answers. But I certainly don't preach Eternal Security.
It's a License to sin.

I believe that we have ASSURANCE of our salvation **IF** we believe the NT and repent DAILY.

Likewise, on Day 1, we have ASSURANCE that:
if we believe God and repent, God will re-generate us, convert us, save us from our sins, and hide us within the Body of Christ.

dennis manning
*********************

Dennis! Just teedering in to say Hi!

exodus 29;40 NLT
2 lambs are offered on the altar
2 quarts of fine flour mixed with one quart of olive oil is offered on the altar
also, one quart of wine is offered as a drink offering
an offering by fire (a burnt offering)

**********

the animal is a "sin, guilt, burnt, trespass" offering
the OT Saint identifies with the animal (he puts his hand on the animal's head), and the animal's life-blood is shed (as a substitute for the OT Saint. The wages of sin is death)

the meal (fine flour) and wine offerings are "peace, thank" offerings: they are a picture of our communion with God

*************

In the OT, the OT Saint identified with the animal (God mercifully accepts the animal in place of the OT Saint;; the lamb is a substitute )

In the NT, the Lamb of God (Christ) is the sacrifice for our sins. Jesus is our Substitute.


Today, with hind-sight, we can see that , in the OT, the animal sacrifice was an im-perfect "type, picture, fore-shadow" of Christ.

*********

the flour (grain, wheat) [Christ] is mixed with olive oil [the Holy Spirit].
the flour [Christ] is baptized with the oil [the Holy Spirit].

All who are "in Christ" [ALL NT believers, ALL Christians, ALL born again] are included in this "baptism in the Holy Spirit", because they are "in Christ".
NOT one Christian is left out.
NOT one Christian is without the Holy Spirit.
NOT one Christian is without the "baptism of the Holy Spirit".
NOT one Christian is without the Gifts and Fruits of the Holy Spirit.

When a person becomes "born again", he is "baptized with the Holy Spirit", because he is "in Christ".

************

the wine offering is symbolic of the (super-natural) "Joy in the Holy Spirit".
Joy is the mood of the believer.

We Christians enjoy a Love and Joy that the world has never imagined.

The NT commands us: Be not drunk with wine, but be filled with the Holy Spirit.

(The Spirit is Far better than wine.)

**********

How does a person get "filled with the Spirit"?
Read, study, and obey the Spiritual Word of God.
Ask the Heavenly Father to fill you with Holy Spirit, Daily!
Give us this day, our Daily Bread (Christ).
Ask Christ to fill you with the Spirit. Ask Him every day.

Ask, and you will receive.

**************

James 4;17 Amplified Bible
any person who knows what is right to do but does not do it, to him it is sin.




dennis manning

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

If you do not know Christ(salvation) you can not know God.

Dennis, why is the reference to the Spirit of God and Spirit of Christ seperated in this scripture?

The wheat is God's Word in us! Mixed with olive oil, for annointing.......Wine is used in cleansing, and the oil for annointing. See Joel 2:23-24 Yes, Jesus is the perfect Lamb, there was no blemish in Him. The sacrifices given are a picture of us before and afterwards and on the alter! Look at the passover meal. Someone with Jewish heritage can explain why the lamb is hidden in the bread of passover.....It is my understanding that this is also a symbol of Jesus! The Jewish people who don't accept Christ will tell you that it is the Messiah, yet to come.

*************

Christ is God
the Spirit is God
the Spirit of Christ is God
the Spirit of God is God
the Father is God
Isaiah said : Christ is Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, THE ANCIENT OF DAYS, THE EVERLASTING FATHER
Isaiah said : the Father is the Son
Jesus, in the NT, said: I and My Father are one.

The NT says : Jesus is the only Savior.
The OT says, many times: I, the God of the OT, am the ONLY SAVIOR.
The Father and the Son are God. There's no difference between them.
Jesus is the God of the OT.
Jesus is the Creator, as mentioned in Genesis chapter 1.




there is no difference between the "Spirit of God" and the "Spirit of Christ".




dennis manning

That is not what I asked.

Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Act 11:14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Act 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

it is like trying to pin down a particle in quantum physics, it seems to be everywhere at once.......Hmmmm where have I seen that before. seems to meet us where we are at. We still must believe to receive. belief good...unbelief bad

The Tongues-Talking Super-Christians on this Forum have divided the Church into 2 churches,

1) Spirit-Indwelt, Spirit-Baptized, known by Christ, they go up in the 1st resurrection, the Bride of Christ, wise virgins

2) Not Spirit-Indwelt, Not Spirit-Baptized, foolish virgins, the general Church.
Jesus does NOT know the general Church.

*****************

BUT!

There's only one un-divided Church

One Spirit

One Baptism

One Savior
One Bride, One Groom,
One Marriage


One Unity in Spirit

One Unity in Christ

One first resurrection (of the Godly Saints)

2 Corinthians 5;17
Amplified Bible

if any person is (ingrafted) in Christ, the Messiah (Anointed in oil, the Holy Spirit, Baptized in the Holy Spirit), he is (a new creature altogether), a new creation; the old (previous moral and spiritual condition ) has passed away. Behold, the fresh and new has come!


How does God transform a sinner into a Saint?
and transform bitterness into Super-natural Joy?
and change us from Death into Everlasting, In-corruptible, Abundant, Life?
and change us from sinful cowards into fearless Martyrs?
and change our moral and spiritual condition from Satan-loving into Jesus-loving?
How do we approach the Throne of Grace with Godly Boldness?
How do we change from doing robberies to doing Charity?
How do we change from Satanic Conceit to Godly Humility?
How do we change from hurting people to helping people?
How does God Fill us with His Love, Truth, Honesty, Helpfulness, Gentleness, Forgiveness, Patience,.......etc
??????????

It's ONLY by MAXIMUM Power!
By the Baptism of the Holy Spirit!
If you are a new Creation in Christ, then you're Baptized in the Holy Spirit.

It doesn't matter if the Full-Gospel Tongues-Talking (self-proclaimed) Super-Christians agree or not. They try to twist and break the Scriptures to feed their ego.


If you are "in Christ" (a NT believer), then you are "counted" as righteous. Even though we are not perfectly righteous in actual practice. Because Christ substituted for us (on the cross. He took our punishment for sin).

We Christians are (positionally speaking) as Innocent, Pure, Holy, Righteous, Godly, as Christ.
We have a record of ALL the good works that Christ did.
We have a record of NO SIN. and NO CRIMES.
Because Christ switched records with us. He took our criminal record, and He gave us His Perfect record of Holiness, Good Works, Sin-less-ness.


When we become in-active, the "oil in our lamp" (the Holy Spirit) runs out, and we lose our salvation. We lose our Light. Our Lamp doesn't shine any Light.
Jesus said "I AM the Light of the world".
If we've lost our oil, and Light, then,.......we've lost our Jesus.
Jesus is the Ultimate Light!

Thy Word is a Light unto my path!


So, we have ASSURANCE of our salvation **IF** we stay active, and believe God and repent DAILY.

**********
If anyone knows a good thing to do, and does it NOT, to him, it is sin.
James



dennis manning

Hi Dennis!

A sit down talk would be nice...(And by the way GO SEAHAWKS! )

Dennis, Did you read closely what Pam wrote about the 10 virgins under my topic? It seems like you didn't. Her interpretation is once you are justified you're in. If you haven't through free will submitted to the sanctification process you get broken off and thrown in the heap with the chaff to be burned...but it doesn't mean you don't go to heaven. You just miss the rapture and probably don't get many crowns. Anyway...that's just my take on Pamela's thoughts.

Dennis...I believe you are saved and filled with the Holy Ghost...Me too.

I'm not super spiritual even though l see the manifestation of the spirit in my life.

I'm trying to live up to Christ's good example for his names sake. He has a good name and l don't want to embarrass him. (As if l could...but you know what l mean) The Spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. It's hard to sit down with God and talk face to face. In order to hear him you have to lay yourself wide open.... How many of us can do that on a daily basis.

One of the things l discovered after being in the eastern religions new age astrology etc.. Is that it's REALLY HARD TO BELIEVE. They hand out there signs wonders and magic on a huge silver platter. It's shocking!!!! You are forced to believe...Logic itself forces is on you. Time and time again you see it laid before you until you can deny it no longer.

But it backfired on Satan...I knew if that was true God had to have a way too.
Logic...come let us reason ....

Once l believed it was like the flood gates opened...Saying you believe and thinking you believe are really different then believing...Believing is powerful and l personally think...Scary You know why? Because of accountability. The need to be careful. I think l'll ramble on some more:

I had this dream once that l had a tent set up above my old High school.
I was in the outer court yard looking towards the inner court. Someone came along and put some old meat in my tent on the floor (It was a cool looking tent)

I was so busy looking down into the court yard trying to figure out how to get in that l brushed off the old meat...I knew it was old but didn't throw it out right away. Then someone came along with new meat and threw it right in on top of the old.

I came back into my tent ... saw the meat...put it in the bowl... with only slight recollection of the old meat and l ate it all..As l left my tent and began to look down in the court yard l realized l'd eaten the old meat. I knew l was poisoned and would die. I was so upset...It was too late. There was nothing l could do. It didn't matter how much good meat there was. I'd eaten the old with the new. I was going to die. Bad dream.

It always bothered me until somebody on this forum and l can't remember who, reminded me about the scripture of getting bit by serpents or drinking poison that no harm would come to you...

And honestly...I wonder if l still struggle with old meat today? Signs wonders and things from the past mixed in with the good meat...no doubt...

But l have to believe God will lead me completely out of the wilderness because l asked...and that l would be allowed into the inner court according to my obedience and His mercy...

Holy of Holies? I won't even go there. He'd have to kill me...

Anyway...just blabbering this morning.

removed

But let's not hit him to hard..

I went a long time without fully understanding this concept.

I just had a vision of a woman anointing Jesus's feet with oil.