[B]As an non-American, I have a question to which I would appreciate those Americans among the readers of the site to address.
George W. Bush has said Jesus changed his heart. He is a born again Christian, he prays, he is anti-gay and anti same sex marriage. He is against abortion and pro capital punishment (an eye for an eye). These are all good Biblical beliefs. Therefore, I would like opinions on whether he is the hope for the Christian world.
Full Version: George W. Bush
QUOTE(patronkerr @ Dec 3 2005, 02:58 AM)
[B]As an non-American, I have a question to which I would appreciate those Americans among the readers of the site to address.
George W. Bush has said Jesus changed his heart. He is a born again Christian, he prays, he is anti-gay and anti same sex marriage. He is against abortion and pro capital punishment (an eye for an eye). These are all good Biblical beliefs. Therefore, I would like opinions on whether he is the hope for the Christian world.
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George W. Bush has said Jesus changed his heart. He is a born again Christian, he prays, he is anti-gay and anti same sex marriage. He is against abortion and pro capital punishment (an eye for an eye). These are all good Biblical beliefs. Therefore, I would like opinions on whether he is the hope for the Christian world.
[right][snapback]26609[/snapback][/right]
Suprise! I'm posting first...imagine that!
First of all, where are your sources stating that he is a born again Christian. When did he say that Jesus changed his heart? I've never heard him say it himself. Do you have links of Bush publicly stating all this? He is very pro-capital punishment; when he was the governor of Texas he was proud it was #1 in it's executions.
Is he hope for the Christian world? I'm going with a simple:
NO
I am only speaking for myself here for we all have different views and that is one reason why America is great.
I look to no man or woman because we all fall short. If I look at one person to save a person, city or even a nation then I have fallen short and I will be let down at some point.
I vote and when I go to the polls to vote I look at what I belive in and if that person has stated what I belive in then that is who I will vote for. I do it in the city, county, state and nation. I make calls I ask for written info. so I can study and make my choice wisely. I use the bible when I decide. Once they are in office no matter who wins I will not speak bad of the person. I will pray for the office and the person. I say this because WE ARE ONE NATION UNDER GOD.
Kim
I look to no man or woman because we all fall short. If I look at one person to save a person, city or even a nation then I have fallen short and I will be let down at some point.
I vote and when I go to the polls to vote I look at what I belive in and if that person has stated what I belive in then that is who I will vote for. I do it in the city, county, state and nation. I make calls I ask for written info. so I can study and make my choice wisely. I use the bible when I decide. Once they are in office no matter who wins I will not speak bad of the person. I will pray for the office and the person. I say this because WE ARE ONE NATION UNDER GOD.
Kim
Yeah but it is sad how they are going to get rid of that, 'One Nation Under God'; because it is offensive to people???????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here's the thing though:
Not every person who professes to be a Christian is one.
Faith without works, without tangible deeds of obedience, is dead faith – it is the faith of devils. (James 2:10-24) Jesus asks, “Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46) “Ye shall know them by their fruits. Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matthew 7:16-20)
Here's the thing though:
Not every person who professes to be a Christian is one.
Faith without works, without tangible deeds of obedience, is dead faith – it is the faith of devils. (James 2:10-24) Jesus asks, “Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46) “Ye shall know them by their fruits. Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matthew 7:16-20)
So right Marta, that is why we look to no man. I go on my beliefs and that is all I can do. Then I pray and pray for I did my part and the rest is up to God.
When I read about history and then today's advents I know we are at the end of our time as we know it.
They do want to do away with one nation under God, take God off the money, they want to take Christ out of Christmas. They even want to take Pro-Israel off of Christain telvisions. Huuuuummm sound like we are about to take a trip to heaven to me.
Kim
When I read about history and then today's advents I know we are at the end of our time as we know it.
They do want to do away with one nation under God, take God off the money, they want to take Christ out of Christmas. They even want to take Pro-Israel off of Christain telvisions. Huuuuummm sound like we are about to take a trip to heaven to me.
Kim
QUOTE(kim48 @ Dec 3 2005, 07:56 AM)
So right Marta, that is why we look to no man. I go on my beliefs and that is all I can do. Then I pray and pray for I did my part and the rest is up to God.
When I read about history and then today's advents I know we are at the end of our time as we know it.
They do want to do away with one nation under God, take God off the money, they want to take Christ out of Christmas. They even want to take Pro-Israel off of Christain telvisions. Huuuuummm sound like we are about to take a trip to heaven to me.
Kim
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When I read about history and then today's advents I know we are at the end of our time as we know it.
They do want to do away with one nation under God, take God off the money, they want to take Christ out of Christmas. They even want to take Pro-Israel off of Christain telvisions. Huuuuummm sound like we are about to take a trip to heaven to me.
Kim
[right][snapback]26632[/snapback][/right]
Amen girl I am not looking to NO MAN! My eyes and my spirit are not of this world! The holy spirit is within you and it guides you....to SEE FLESH....we are born again in SPIRIT! We wrestle not against MAN but powers of darkness.
It is not George W. I'm always after! If Dick Cheney was in the hot seat; I'd be even more irritated.......there is something not right with that man for sure! He is a sneaky shady character and he has a lot of bones in his closet I'm shocked they haven't all fallen out!! Go Mr. Haliburton yea!!!
It is the entire ADMINISTRATION!
I'm done now...I must pray!
This topic just gets me going! I'm sorry; I've shown my weak side!!
I tend to get a little edgy now and then!
I tend to get a little edgy now and then!
Prophecy - Signs
Friday, December 02, 2005
Jack Kinsella - Omega Letter Editor
Back in 1973, as the recession was heating up, American prestige was taking a beating over Vietnam and Watergate, Canadian broadcaster Gordon Sinclair broadcast an impassioned defense of America and Americans, as seen from Canada's uniquely liberal perspective:
"You talk about Japanese technocracy and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy and you find men on the moon, not once, but several times ... and safely home again. You talk about scandals and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everyone to look at. Even the draft dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, most of them ... unless they are breaking Canadian laws .. are getting American dollars from Ma and Pa at home to spend here."
Reading it again after a number of years, one sentence jumped out at me. Sinclair says, with obvious admiration, "You talk about scandals and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everyone to look at."
In 1973, scandal-mongering was a relatively new tactic in national politics. Most of the politicians themselves were veteran scandal-mongerers themselves -- that's how politics works at the local level. But as a national partisan tactic, it was viewed as unpatriotic. JFK had his mistresses, his health problems, his addiction to prescription drugs, mafia connections, election irregularities, etc.
All of this was well-known in Washington circles. JFK came to the White House from a Senate comprised of old-time politicians, mostly veterans of one of the world wars, and keenly aware of the power of propaganda.
Most of them had met its victims first-hand on the battlefields of Europe, and marveled at the fanatical devotion of the enemy. They had seen it reflected in the hollowed eyes of concentration camp survivors, had felt it up close and personal, watched it claim the lives of a whole generation.
By 1973, a new generation, having never heard jackboots marching in lock-step, began to clamor for power, and, learning all the wrong lessons from history, reopened Pandora's box, declaring it the "Age of Aquarius".
Under the banner, "Never Trust Anyone Over Thirty" the pampered Baby Boomer generation turned the power of propaganda on its own government, blinded by the light of 'truth' and blithely unaware of the Biblical consequences that come from 'troubling one's own house.'
The Watergate scandal broke the unwritten Senate rule of handling scandals in-house. In part, it was because the shocked Nixon administration over reacted after reading all about it in the Washington Post. Another reason was because many of these formerly-cautious veterans got a taste of the same intoxicant that addicted their former enemy of a generation ago. Power.
Propaganda, as was used by the fascists, employed what is called the 'Hegelian Dialectic'. It was formulated by Georg Hegel, feted by historians as "perhaps the greatest of the German idealist philosophers."
Hegel's dialectic is the tool which manipulates us into a frenzied circular pattern of thought and action. Every time we fight for or defend against an ideology we are playing a necessary role in Marx and Engels' grand design to advance humanity into a dictatorship of the proletariat.
The synthetic Hegelian solution to all these conflicts can't be introduced unless we all take a side that will advance the agenda. That is what makes guys like war-hero veteran John Murtha start talking about 'immediate withdrawal from Iraq.' Murtha knew it would never fly; his agenda wasn't to pull out the troops, but to put the administration on the defensive, advancing the partisan goal of discrediting the other side in advance of next year's elections.
When the GOP forced a vote on immediate withdrawal, it failed 403-3. (Not even Murtha voted in favor of it.)
The purpose was never what it seemed to be. Its only purpose was to introduce conflict and force people to take sides. The GOP tactic to force a vote was bitterly decried by the Democrats because it exposed the conflict as a fraud. It is hard to introduce conflict into a policy supported by a margin of 403-3.
Merriam-Webster's definition of 'dialectic': "The Hegelian process of change in which a concept or its realization passes over into and is preserved and fulfilled by its opposite; also : the critical investigation of this process b (1) usually plural but singular or plural in construction : development through the stages of thesis, antithesis, and synthesis in accordance with the laws of dialectical materialism (2) : the investigation of this process (3) : the theoretical application of this process especially in the social sciences."
It's a complicated theory by design; it is supposed to so complicated that it takes too long for the masses being conditioned to bother trying to stop the facts from spinning long enough to see them for what they are.
I'll try and explain it in a nutshell:
Thesis: Identify a particular desired, but unpopular political objective. An obvious example would be the disarming of the American public. America was born in a cloud of gunsmoke. For generations, the 2nd Amendment assumed the Constitutional right of Americans to bear arms, since, as Jefferson astutely noted, "an armed population ensures an honest government."
How then, to condition a nation built on the premise that the "tree of freedom is watered by the blood of patriots" to voluntarily disarm?
Synthesis: Having identified the goal, through the use of the media and political operatives, convince the population that the goal is actually the problem. The absurd principle that guns kill people and the solution is to remove the guns rather than address the moral issue of killers is a perfect illustration of Hegelian logic.
Consider it this way: If it made sense, then it would make equal sense to ban cars in response to the problem of drunk driving? No?
Antithesis: Having created a managed panic among the population, reluctantly acquiesce to popular demand after the public begins to clamor for the objective identified in the thesis.
By the time you get to the end of the formula, there are crowds of demonstrators clamoring for laws that, in the end, only accomplish the disarmament of law-abiding citizens. The bumper sticker, "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" untwists the Hegelian knot in a single sentence.
What hath the politics of scandal, so admired by Gordon Sinclair in 1973, wrought since? It isn't too hard to trace. Having been so successful in effecting a legislative coup de etat with Watergate, both sides began to rethink the unwritten taboo on the injection of propaganda into national politics.
Compare the very worst scandal of the Bush administration to the litany of scandals that never saw the light of day during the Kennedy years. One could argue with hindsight that even the Clinton administration had fewer skeletons than JFK. But the Cold War was in full bloom, and it was not in America's best interests to hand the Soviet propaganda machine any more reasons to hate us.
But Watergate changed all that. The Nixon resignation handed the Soviets a windfall; but the world didn't end. It brought an end to the hated Vietnam War. America won every single battle of the war except the propaganda war. Peasants armed with antique weapons (and the power of propaganda) defeated the most powerful military machine the world had ever seen. America evacuated under fire, Vietnam fell to the Communists, but the world didn't end. Nobody stopped to unspin the facts. Nobody blamed the purveyors of Hegelian conflict, they blamed its victims.
That emboldened the scandal mongerers.
During the Reagan administration, the Iran-Contra scandal erupted over a deal that would have effectively traded arms for hostages while simultaneously arming the anti-Communist Nicaraguan rebels. A Communist state in North America wasn't in America's best interests by anybody's definition, but it provided an excuse for conflict. It almost brought down the Reagan administration at the same time the Soviets were about to crumble.
But it served a partisan interest, which had, by this time, begun to supersede national interests, as more and more politicians succumbed to the intoxicated effect of the dialectic.
America's image abroad continued to take a beating, as Republican politicians were handed a propaganda windfall by the Clinton administration. By the time the dust cleared in 2000, America's national image was that of a wilful, immoral and decadent society obsessed with sex and unperturbed by perjury.
By the time George Bush assumed the Oval Office, Pandora's propaganda demon had been tried and tested over six successive administrations with seemingly no ill effect. The nation had just experienced its longest period of sustained prosperity in its history. With the exception of a few minor terrorist incidents and the minor annoyance of the Saddam Hussein regime, America was a nation at peace, strong and secure.
The reckoning came on September 11, 2001. Pandora's demon had done its work. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. For every politician condemning PART of America to advance his own agenda, there is an enemy or would-be enemy hearing the condemnation pronounced on ALL America.
"And a man's foes shall be they of his own household." (Matthew 10:36)
Excerpted from the Omega Letter Daily Intelligence Digest, Volume 50, Issue:26
This article made me sit back and think. When we scwabble about our man, run him through the mud, listen to all that is being reported and pick sides, it is playing right into this "dialectic".
A couple of weeks ago, someone was talking about Bush in another thread, and a friend of mine on this forum called it gossip. I thought that was incorrect, and even stated so. However, his statement kept running through my head because I knew somewhere deep down that he could be right. When I came across this article, I really feel it was the Lord gently telling me that my friend was right. (Thanks Todd) I guess our response to this climate of mudslinging should be- take it to the Lord. Pray. And vote based on how the Lord leads.
And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. Indeed. The Bible nails it once again.
As an aside, I think Bush could be a believer. I don't know him, but I have heard statements and read books that claim that he is a God fearing man.
So there is evidence for both sides.
But to answer your original question- is Bush America's hope. No. Only Yeshua is.
Friday, December 02, 2005
Jack Kinsella - Omega Letter Editor
Back in 1973, as the recession was heating up, American prestige was taking a beating over Vietnam and Watergate, Canadian broadcaster Gordon Sinclair broadcast an impassioned defense of America and Americans, as seen from Canada's uniquely liberal perspective:
"You talk about Japanese technocracy and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy and you find men on the moon, not once, but several times ... and safely home again. You talk about scandals and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everyone to look at. Even the draft dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, most of them ... unless they are breaking Canadian laws .. are getting American dollars from Ma and Pa at home to spend here."
Reading it again after a number of years, one sentence jumped out at me. Sinclair says, with obvious admiration, "You talk about scandals and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everyone to look at."
In 1973, scandal-mongering was a relatively new tactic in national politics. Most of the politicians themselves were veteran scandal-mongerers themselves -- that's how politics works at the local level. But as a national partisan tactic, it was viewed as unpatriotic. JFK had his mistresses, his health problems, his addiction to prescription drugs, mafia connections, election irregularities, etc.
All of this was well-known in Washington circles. JFK came to the White House from a Senate comprised of old-time politicians, mostly veterans of one of the world wars, and keenly aware of the power of propaganda.
Most of them had met its victims first-hand on the battlefields of Europe, and marveled at the fanatical devotion of the enemy. They had seen it reflected in the hollowed eyes of concentration camp survivors, had felt it up close and personal, watched it claim the lives of a whole generation.
By 1973, a new generation, having never heard jackboots marching in lock-step, began to clamor for power, and, learning all the wrong lessons from history, reopened Pandora's box, declaring it the "Age of Aquarius".
Under the banner, "Never Trust Anyone Over Thirty" the pampered Baby Boomer generation turned the power of propaganda on its own government, blinded by the light of 'truth' and blithely unaware of the Biblical consequences that come from 'troubling one's own house.'
The Watergate scandal broke the unwritten Senate rule of handling scandals in-house. In part, it was because the shocked Nixon administration over reacted after reading all about it in the Washington Post. Another reason was because many of these formerly-cautious veterans got a taste of the same intoxicant that addicted their former enemy of a generation ago. Power.
Propaganda, as was used by the fascists, employed what is called the 'Hegelian Dialectic'. It was formulated by Georg Hegel, feted by historians as "perhaps the greatest of the German idealist philosophers."
Hegel's dialectic is the tool which manipulates us into a frenzied circular pattern of thought and action. Every time we fight for or defend against an ideology we are playing a necessary role in Marx and Engels' grand design to advance humanity into a dictatorship of the proletariat.
The synthetic Hegelian solution to all these conflicts can't be introduced unless we all take a side that will advance the agenda. That is what makes guys like war-hero veteran John Murtha start talking about 'immediate withdrawal from Iraq.' Murtha knew it would never fly; his agenda wasn't to pull out the troops, but to put the administration on the defensive, advancing the partisan goal of discrediting the other side in advance of next year's elections.
When the GOP forced a vote on immediate withdrawal, it failed 403-3. (Not even Murtha voted in favor of it.)
The purpose was never what it seemed to be. Its only purpose was to introduce conflict and force people to take sides. The GOP tactic to force a vote was bitterly decried by the Democrats because it exposed the conflict as a fraud. It is hard to introduce conflict into a policy supported by a margin of 403-3.
Merriam-Webster's definition of 'dialectic': "The Hegelian process of change in which a concept or its realization passes over into and is preserved and fulfilled by its opposite; also : the critical investigation of this process b (1) usually plural but singular or plural in construction : development through the stages of thesis, antithesis, and synthesis in accordance with the laws of dialectical materialism (2) : the investigation of this process (3) : the theoretical application of this process especially in the social sciences."
It's a complicated theory by design; it is supposed to so complicated that it takes too long for the masses being conditioned to bother trying to stop the facts from spinning long enough to see them for what they are.
I'll try and explain it in a nutshell:
Thesis: Identify a particular desired, but unpopular political objective. An obvious example would be the disarming of the American public. America was born in a cloud of gunsmoke. For generations, the 2nd Amendment assumed the Constitutional right of Americans to bear arms, since, as Jefferson astutely noted, "an armed population ensures an honest government."
How then, to condition a nation built on the premise that the "tree of freedom is watered by the blood of patriots" to voluntarily disarm?
Synthesis: Having identified the goal, through the use of the media and political operatives, convince the population that the goal is actually the problem. The absurd principle that guns kill people and the solution is to remove the guns rather than address the moral issue of killers is a perfect illustration of Hegelian logic.
Consider it this way: If it made sense, then it would make equal sense to ban cars in response to the problem of drunk driving? No?
Antithesis: Having created a managed panic among the population, reluctantly acquiesce to popular demand after the public begins to clamor for the objective identified in the thesis.
By the time you get to the end of the formula, there are crowds of demonstrators clamoring for laws that, in the end, only accomplish the disarmament of law-abiding citizens. The bumper sticker, "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" untwists the Hegelian knot in a single sentence.
What hath the politics of scandal, so admired by Gordon Sinclair in 1973, wrought since? It isn't too hard to trace. Having been so successful in effecting a legislative coup de etat with Watergate, both sides began to rethink the unwritten taboo on the injection of propaganda into national politics.
Compare the very worst scandal of the Bush administration to the litany of scandals that never saw the light of day during the Kennedy years. One could argue with hindsight that even the Clinton administration had fewer skeletons than JFK. But the Cold War was in full bloom, and it was not in America's best interests to hand the Soviet propaganda machine any more reasons to hate us.
But Watergate changed all that. The Nixon resignation handed the Soviets a windfall; but the world didn't end. It brought an end to the hated Vietnam War. America won every single battle of the war except the propaganda war. Peasants armed with antique weapons (and the power of propaganda) defeated the most powerful military machine the world had ever seen. America evacuated under fire, Vietnam fell to the Communists, but the world didn't end. Nobody stopped to unspin the facts. Nobody blamed the purveyors of Hegelian conflict, they blamed its victims.
That emboldened the scandal mongerers.
During the Reagan administration, the Iran-Contra scandal erupted over a deal that would have effectively traded arms for hostages while simultaneously arming the anti-Communist Nicaraguan rebels. A Communist state in North America wasn't in America's best interests by anybody's definition, but it provided an excuse for conflict. It almost brought down the Reagan administration at the same time the Soviets were about to crumble.
But it served a partisan interest, which had, by this time, begun to supersede national interests, as more and more politicians succumbed to the intoxicated effect of the dialectic.
America's image abroad continued to take a beating, as Republican politicians were handed a propaganda windfall by the Clinton administration. By the time the dust cleared in 2000, America's national image was that of a wilful, immoral and decadent society obsessed with sex and unperturbed by perjury.
By the time George Bush assumed the Oval Office, Pandora's propaganda demon had been tried and tested over six successive administrations with seemingly no ill effect. The nation had just experienced its longest period of sustained prosperity in its history. With the exception of a few minor terrorist incidents and the minor annoyance of the Saddam Hussein regime, America was a nation at peace, strong and secure.
The reckoning came on September 11, 2001. Pandora's demon had done its work. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. For every politician condemning PART of America to advance his own agenda, there is an enemy or would-be enemy hearing the condemnation pronounced on ALL America.
"And a man's foes shall be they of his own household." (Matthew 10:36)
Excerpted from the Omega Letter Daily Intelligence Digest, Volume 50, Issue:26
This article made me sit back and think. When we scwabble about our man, run him through the mud, listen to all that is being reported and pick sides, it is playing right into this "dialectic".
A couple of weeks ago, someone was talking about Bush in another thread, and a friend of mine on this forum called it gossip. I thought that was incorrect, and even stated so. However, his statement kept running through my head because I knew somewhere deep down that he could be right. When I came across this article, I really feel it was the Lord gently telling me that my friend was right. (Thanks Todd) I guess our response to this climate of mudslinging should be- take it to the Lord. Pray. And vote based on how the Lord leads.
And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. Indeed. The Bible nails it once again.
As an aside, I think Bush could be a believer. I don't know him, but I have heard statements and read books that claim that he is a God fearing man.
So there is evidence for both sides.
But to answer your original question- is Bush America's hope. No. Only Yeshua is.
Ya know Marta, we may not always agree on everything but but its nice to know there will be no two party system in Heaven and we will both be there.
I love ya girl and you make me laugh.
We do need prayer for our nation. I also know that things must come to pass in order for you and I to get to Heaven. In the mean time we will pray and it will be written down in Heaven.
Lim
I love ya girl and you make me laugh.
We do need prayer for our nation. I also know that things must come to pass in order for you and I to get to Heaven. In the mean time we will pray and it will be written down in Heaven.
Lim
QUOTE(Marta @ Dec 3 2005, 08:24 AM)
QUOTE(patronkerr @ Dec 3 2005, 02:58 AM)
[B]As an non-American, I have a question to which I would appreciate those Americans among the readers of the site to address.
George W. Bush has said Jesus changed his heart. He is a born again Christian, he prays, he is anti-gay and anti same sex marriage. He is against abortion and pro capital punishment (an eye for an eye). These are all good Biblical beliefs. Therefore, I would like opinions on whether he is the hope for the Christian world.
[right][snapback]26609[/snapback][/right]
George W. Bush has said Jesus changed his heart. He is a born again Christian, he prays, he is anti-gay and anti same sex marriage. He is against abortion and pro capital punishment (an eye for an eye). These are all good Biblical beliefs. Therefore, I would like opinions on whether he is the hope for the Christian world.
[right][snapback]26609[/snapback][/right]
Suprise! I'm posting first...imagine that!
First of all, where are your sources stating that he is a born again Christian. When did he say that Jesus changed his heart? I've never heard him say it himself. Do you have links of Bush publicly stating all this? He is very pro-capital punishment; when he was the governor of Texas he was proud it was #1 in it's executions.
Is he hope for the Christian world? I'm going with a simple:
NO
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Marta,
I love ya and everything, but I am a supporter of Bush. I do not think he is the great white hope of the Christian Faith in America, but I do think he has a responsibility to demonstrate the faith he has. I do believe that he has a desire to do the LORD'S will. Any man in the position of authority that he is in better be doing that. At least he has not flipped flopped, saying he has a public side of faith where he believes one thing and then a private side where he believes another.
You asked if he has publicly declared his faith. Yes, he has. In his book, "A charge to keep", he explains how he became a born again Christian. A link to a site called "Truth or Fiction" gives an example from his book regarding this:
Bush's Public Declaration of Fatih In Christ
Out of 50 search results I looked at about Bush using the search terms 'george w bush christian' in Yahoo (there were lots more but I was sick after reading just 50 of them), only 1 - the link above - gave an actual example of his public declaration of his faith directly from his book. The other 49 cast doubt on his faith, and some - like the Catholic New Times - said that the Pope was concerned that Bush was the anti-christ. One last thing about this: In a presidential debate in Des Moines, IA on December 13, 1999, Bush was asked which figure from history was the most influential to him. While his opponents all responded with "Plato", "socrates", and other philosophers, Bush proudly said - and bravely I might add - "Jesus Christ". The crowd was stunned and silent. I saw it on tv! I will never forget it because he is the ONLY politician to do such a thing.
Are those that cast these dispersions upon him Christians as well? No. They are the athiests, the gay rights activists, various liberal bloggers and groups who hate him, republicans and the Christian Right in general. Many try to hide their hate through 'humor'. But it is what it is - pure hate and malice for the man. They claim that Bush and Republicans and the Christian Right don't feed the hungry, don't care about children, execute felons when they should be pardoning them, and use Mathew 19:19-24 to validate their view of redistribution of wealth.:
QUOTE
Mt 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
Mt 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Mt 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
Mt 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mt 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Mt 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Mt 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
Mt 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mt 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
But then they don't claim to do itthemselves, either. They would rather have the tzxpayer do it. It is easy that way.
JESUS CHRIST is our savior, not Bush. Bush has never said he was anyway. He has called himself a "lowly sinner" on January 10th, 2000. Seems we as followers of CHRIST agree with that statement about ourselves as well.
QUOTE
Proverbs 8:15 By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
The LORD GOD sets up rulers. HE also casts them down when they do wrong.
If Bush is doing the wrong things, GOD is not mocked - he will be cast out. But if his enemies are doing the wrong things, they will reap what they sow as well. It has happened before, and it is happening now. It will happen again.
Todd
Awesome, Julie!
Todd
Todd
I have always though Marta's "edginess" in this area comes not from one man but the system he is involved in. I may be wrong, Marta. This entire area of concern concerns us all and makes us edgy and if you are not edgy, then I think you don't understand that we are about to go to battle as Christians. A little edgy is good for concentration. It keeps you focused and sharp and your eye catches more of the battle areound you then if you are meat and potatoes lethargic.
I think Bush is both evil and not. I know....but I think he has actually convinced himself, as has Rice and most elementary Masons, that what he is doing is "good for the future world". But I think they are all what BZ calls "Yale People" even if they have not gone there. They have stopped looking for the coming of the Lord as the end and hope to find a world of acceptable quality for an indefinate period of time. They lost focus.
I know alot of really good Masons and government individuals who are in the "system" and think they can make things better, that are even good Christians and help their brother and pray and think they are doing right but don't see the bi picture. I think Bush has "sold out" to a little er picture that is all.
My view is on heaven and from that side I look BACK to here. Focus in in that attitude....looking at things from THAT side of the mirror.
I think Bush is both evil and not. I know....but I think he has actually convinced himself, as has Rice and most elementary Masons, that what he is doing is "good for the future world". But I think they are all what BZ calls "Yale People" even if they have not gone there. They have stopped looking for the coming of the Lord as the end and hope to find a world of acceptable quality for an indefinate period of time. They lost focus.
I know alot of really good Masons and government individuals who are in the "system" and think they can make things better, that are even good Christians and help their brother and pray and think they are doing right but don't see the bi picture. I think Bush has "sold out" to a little er picture that is all.
My view is on heaven and from that side I look BACK to here. Focus in in that attitude....looking at things from THAT side of the mirror.
QUOTE(jhamner @ Dec 3 2005, 09:18 AM)
Prophecy - Signs
Friday, December 02, 2005
Jack Kinsella - Omega Letter Editor
Back in 1973, as the recession was heating up, American prestige was taking a beating over Vietnam and Watergate, Canadian broadcaster Gordon Sinclair broadcast an impassioned defense of America and Americans, as seen from Canada's uniquely liberal perspective:
"You talk about Japanese technocracy and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy and you find men on the moon, not once, but several times ... and safely home again. You talk about scandals and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everyone to look at. Even the draft dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, most of them ... unless they are breaking Canadian laws .. are getting American dollars from Ma and Pa at home to spend here."
Reading it again after a number of years, one sentence jumped out at me. Sinclair says, with obvious admiration, "You talk about scandals and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everyone to look at."
In 1973, scandal-mongering was a relatively new tactic in national politics. Most of the politicians themselves were veteran scandal-mongerers themselves -- that's how politics works at the local level. But as a national partisan tactic, it was viewed as unpatriotic. JFK had his mistresses, his health problems, his addiction to prescription drugs, mafia connections, election irregularities, etc.
All of this was well-known in Washington circles. JFK came to the White House from a Senate comprised of old-time politicians, mostly veterans of one of the world wars, and keenly aware of the power of propaganda.
Most of them had met its victims first-hand on the battlefields of Europe, and marveled at the fanatical devotion of the enemy. They had seen it reflected in the hollowed eyes of concentration camp survivors, had felt it up close and personal, watched it claim the lives of a whole generation.
By 1973, a new generation, having never heard jackboots marching in lock-step, began to clamor for power, and, learning all the wrong lessons from history, reopened Pandora's box, declaring it the "Age of Aquarius".
Under the banner, "Never Trust Anyone Over Thirty" the pampered Baby Boomer generation turned the power of propaganda on its own government, blinded by the light of 'truth' and blithely unaware of the Biblical consequences that come from 'troubling one's own house.'
The Watergate scandal broke the unwritten Senate rule of handling scandals in-house. In part, it was because the shocked Nixon administration over reacted after reading all about it in the Washington Post. Another reason was because many of these formerly-cautious veterans got a taste of the same intoxicant that addicted their former enemy of a generation ago. Power.
Propaganda, as was used by the fascists, employed what is called the 'Hegelian Dialectic'. It was formulated by Georg Hegel, feted by historians as "perhaps the greatest of the German idealist philosophers."
Hegel's dialectic is the tool which manipulates us into a frenzied circular pattern of thought and action. Every time we fight for or defend against an ideology we are playing a necessary role in Marx and Engels' grand design to advance humanity into a dictatorship of the proletariat.
The synthetic Hegelian solution to all these conflicts can't be introduced unless we all take a side that will advance the agenda. That is what makes guys like war-hero veteran John Murtha start talking about 'immediate withdrawal from Iraq.' Murtha knew it would never fly; his agenda wasn't to pull out the troops, but to put the administration on the defensive, advancing the partisan goal of discrediting the other side in advance of next year's elections.
When the GOP forced a vote on immediate withdrawal, it failed 403-3. (Not even Murtha voted in favor of it.)
The purpose was never what it seemed to be. Its only purpose was to introduce conflict and force people to take sides. The GOP tactic to force a vote was bitterly decried by the Democrats because it exposed the conflict as a fraud. It is hard to introduce conflict into a policy supported by a margin of 403-3.
Merriam-Webster's definition of 'dialectic': "The Hegelian process of change in which a concept or its realization passes over into and is preserved and fulfilled by its opposite; also : the critical investigation of this process b (1) usually plural but singular or plural in construction : development through the stages of thesis, antithesis, and synthesis in accordance with the laws of dialectical materialism (2) : the investigation of this process (3) : the theoretical application of this process especially in the social sciences."
It's a complicated theory by design; it is supposed to so complicated that it takes too long for the masses being conditioned to bother trying to stop the facts from spinning long enough to see them for what they are.
I'll try and explain it in a nutshell:
Thesis: Identify a particular desired, but unpopular political objective. An obvious example would be the disarming of the American public. America was born in a cloud of gunsmoke. For generations, the 2nd Amendment assumed the Constitutional right of Americans to bear arms, since, as Jefferson astutely noted, "an armed population ensures an honest government."
How then, to condition a nation built on the premise that the "tree of freedom is watered by the blood of patriots" to voluntarily disarm?
Synthesis: Having identified the goal, through the use of the media and political operatives, convince the population that the goal is actually the problem. The absurd principle that guns kill people and the solution is to remove the guns rather than address the moral issue of killers is a perfect illustration of Hegelian logic.
Consider it this way: If it made sense, then it would make equal sense to ban cars in response to the problem of drunk driving? No?
Antithesis: Having created a managed panic among the population, reluctantly acquiesce to popular demand after the public begins to clamor for the objective identified in the thesis.
By the time you get to the end of the formula, there are crowds of demonstrators clamoring for laws that, in the end, only accomplish the disarmament of law-abiding citizens. The bumper sticker, "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" untwists the Hegelian knot in a single sentence.
What hath the politics of scandal, so admired by Gordon Sinclair in 1973, wrought since? It isn't too hard to trace. Having been so successful in effecting a legislative coup de etat with Watergate, both sides began to rethink the unwritten taboo on the injection of propaganda into national politics.
Compare the very worst scandal of the Bush administration to the litany of scandals that never saw the light of day during the Kennedy years. One could argue with hindsight that even the Clinton administration had fewer skeletons than JFK. But the Cold War was in full bloom, and it was not in America's best interests to hand the Soviet propaganda machine any more reasons to hate us.
But Watergate changed all that. The Nixon resignation handed the Soviets a windfall; but the world didn't end. It brought an end to the hated Vietnam War. America won every single battle of the war except the propaganda war. Peasants armed with antique weapons (and the power of propaganda) defeated the most powerful military machine the world had ever seen. America evacuated under fire, Vietnam fell to the Communists, but the world didn't end. Nobody stopped to unspin the facts. Nobody blamed the purveyors of Hegelian conflict, they blamed its victims.
That emboldened the scandal mongerers.
During the Reagan administration, the Iran-Contra scandal erupted over a deal that would have effectively traded arms for hostages while simultaneously arming the anti-Communist Nicaraguan rebels. A Communist state in North America wasn't in America's best interests by anybody's definition, but it provided an excuse for conflict. It almost brought down the Reagan administration at the same time the Soviets were about to crumble.
But it served a partisan interest, which had, by this time, begun to supersede national interests, as more and more politicians succumbed to the intoxicated effect of the dialectic.
America's image abroad continued to take a beating, as Republican politicians were handed a propaganda windfall by the Clinton administration. By the time the dust cleared in 2000, America's national image was that of a wilful, immoral and decadent society obsessed with sex and unperturbed by perjury.
By the time George Bush assumed the Oval Office, Pandora's propaganda demon had been tried and tested over six successive administrations with seemingly no ill effect. The nation had just experienced its longest period of sustained prosperity in its history. With the exception of a few minor terrorist incidents and the minor annoyance of the Saddam Hussein regime, America was a nation at peace, strong and secure.
The reckoning came on September 11, 2001. Pandora's demon had done its work. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. For every politician condemning PART of America to advance his own agenda, there is an enemy or would-be enemy hearing the condemnation pronounced on ALL America.
"And a man's foes shall be they of his own household." (Matthew 10:36)
Excerpted from the Omega Letter Daily Intelligence Digest, Volume 50, Issue:26
This article made me sit back and think. When we scwabble about our man, run him through the mud, listen to all that is being reported and pick sides, it is playing right into this "dialectic".
A couple of weeks ago, someone was talking about Bush in another thread, and a friend of mine on this forum called it gossip. I thought that was incorrect, and even stated so. However, his statement kept running through my head because I knew somewhere deep down that he could be right. When I came across this article, I really feel it was the Lord gently telling me that my friend was right. (Thanks Todd) I guess our response to this climate of mudslinging should be- take it to the Lord. Pray. And vote based on how the Lord leads.
And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. Indeed. The Bible nails it once again.
As an aside, I think Bush could be a believer. I don't know him, but I have heard statements and read books that claim that he is a God fearing man.
So there is evidence for both sides.
But to answer your original question- is Bush America's hope. No. Only Yeshua is.
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Friday, December 02, 2005
Jack Kinsella - Omega Letter Editor
Back in 1973, as the recession was heating up, American prestige was taking a beating over Vietnam and Watergate, Canadian broadcaster Gordon Sinclair broadcast an impassioned defense of America and Americans, as seen from Canada's uniquely liberal perspective:
"You talk about Japanese technocracy and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy and you find men on the moon, not once, but several times ... and safely home again. You talk about scandals and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everyone to look at. Even the draft dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, most of them ... unless they are breaking Canadian laws .. are getting American dollars from Ma and Pa at home to spend here."
Reading it again after a number of years, one sentence jumped out at me. Sinclair says, with obvious admiration, "You talk about scandals and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everyone to look at."
In 1973, scandal-mongering was a relatively new tactic in national politics. Most of the politicians themselves were veteran scandal-mongerers themselves -- that's how politics works at the local level. But as a national partisan tactic, it was viewed as unpatriotic. JFK had his mistresses, his health problems, his addiction to prescription drugs, mafia connections, election irregularities, etc.
All of this was well-known in Washington circles. JFK came to the White House from a Senate comprised of old-time politicians, mostly veterans of one of the world wars, and keenly aware of the power of propaganda.
Most of them had met its victims first-hand on the battlefields of Europe, and marveled at the fanatical devotion of the enemy. They had seen it reflected in the hollowed eyes of concentration camp survivors, had felt it up close and personal, watched it claim the lives of a whole generation.
By 1973, a new generation, having never heard jackboots marching in lock-step, began to clamor for power, and, learning all the wrong lessons from history, reopened Pandora's box, declaring it the "Age of Aquarius".
Under the banner, "Never Trust Anyone Over Thirty" the pampered Baby Boomer generation turned the power of propaganda on its own government, blinded by the light of 'truth' and blithely unaware of the Biblical consequences that come from 'troubling one's own house.'
The Watergate scandal broke the unwritten Senate rule of handling scandals in-house. In part, it was because the shocked Nixon administration over reacted after reading all about it in the Washington Post. Another reason was because many of these formerly-cautious veterans got a taste of the same intoxicant that addicted their former enemy of a generation ago. Power.
Propaganda, as was used by the fascists, employed what is called the 'Hegelian Dialectic'. It was formulated by Georg Hegel, feted by historians as "perhaps the greatest of the German idealist philosophers."
Hegel's dialectic is the tool which manipulates us into a frenzied circular pattern of thought and action. Every time we fight for or defend against an ideology we are playing a necessary role in Marx and Engels' grand design to advance humanity into a dictatorship of the proletariat.
The synthetic Hegelian solution to all these conflicts can't be introduced unless we all take a side that will advance the agenda. That is what makes guys like war-hero veteran John Murtha start talking about 'immediate withdrawal from Iraq.' Murtha knew it would never fly; his agenda wasn't to pull out the troops, but to put the administration on the defensive, advancing the partisan goal of discrediting the other side in advance of next year's elections.
When the GOP forced a vote on immediate withdrawal, it failed 403-3. (Not even Murtha voted in favor of it.)
The purpose was never what it seemed to be. Its only purpose was to introduce conflict and force people to take sides. The GOP tactic to force a vote was bitterly decried by the Democrats because it exposed the conflict as a fraud. It is hard to introduce conflict into a policy supported by a margin of 403-3.
Merriam-Webster's definition of 'dialectic': "The Hegelian process of change in which a concept or its realization passes over into and is preserved and fulfilled by its opposite; also : the critical investigation of this process b (1) usually plural but singular or plural in construction : development through the stages of thesis, antithesis, and synthesis in accordance with the laws of dialectical materialism (2) : the investigation of this process (3) : the theoretical application of this process especially in the social sciences."
It's a complicated theory by design; it is supposed to so complicated that it takes too long for the masses being conditioned to bother trying to stop the facts from spinning long enough to see them for what they are.
I'll try and explain it in a nutshell:
Thesis: Identify a particular desired, but unpopular political objective. An obvious example would be the disarming of the American public. America was born in a cloud of gunsmoke. For generations, the 2nd Amendment assumed the Constitutional right of Americans to bear arms, since, as Jefferson astutely noted, "an armed population ensures an honest government."
How then, to condition a nation built on the premise that the "tree of freedom is watered by the blood of patriots" to voluntarily disarm?
Synthesis: Having identified the goal, through the use of the media and political operatives, convince the population that the goal is actually the problem. The absurd principle that guns kill people and the solution is to remove the guns rather than address the moral issue of killers is a perfect illustration of Hegelian logic.
Consider it this way: If it made sense, then it would make equal sense to ban cars in response to the problem of drunk driving? No?
Antithesis: Having created a managed panic among the population, reluctantly acquiesce to popular demand after the public begins to clamor for the objective identified in the thesis.
By the time you get to the end of the formula, there are crowds of demonstrators clamoring for laws that, in the end, only accomplish the disarmament of law-abiding citizens. The bumper sticker, "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" untwists the Hegelian knot in a single sentence.
What hath the politics of scandal, so admired by Gordon Sinclair in 1973, wrought since? It isn't too hard to trace. Having been so successful in effecting a legislative coup de etat with Watergate, both sides began to rethink the unwritten taboo on the injection of propaganda into national politics.
Compare the very worst scandal of the Bush administration to the litany of scandals that never saw the light of day during the Kennedy years. One could argue with hindsight that even the Clinton administration had fewer skeletons than JFK. But the Cold War was in full bloom, and it was not in America's best interests to hand the Soviet propaganda machine any more reasons to hate us.
But Watergate changed all that. The Nixon resignation handed the Soviets a windfall; but the world didn't end. It brought an end to the hated Vietnam War. America won every single battle of the war except the propaganda war. Peasants armed with antique weapons (and the power of propaganda) defeated the most powerful military machine the world had ever seen. America evacuated under fire, Vietnam fell to the Communists, but the world didn't end. Nobody stopped to unspin the facts. Nobody blamed the purveyors of Hegelian conflict, they blamed its victims.
That emboldened the scandal mongerers.
During the Reagan administration, the Iran-Contra scandal erupted over a deal that would have effectively traded arms for hostages while simultaneously arming the anti-Communist Nicaraguan rebels. A Communist state in North America wasn't in America's best interests by anybody's definition, but it provided an excuse for conflict. It almost brought down the Reagan administration at the same time the Soviets were about to crumble.
But it served a partisan interest, which had, by this time, begun to supersede national interests, as more and more politicians succumbed to the intoxicated effect of the dialectic.
America's image abroad continued to take a beating, as Republican politicians were handed a propaganda windfall by the Clinton administration. By the time the dust cleared in 2000, America's national image was that of a wilful, immoral and decadent society obsessed with sex and unperturbed by perjury.
By the time George Bush assumed the Oval Office, Pandora's propaganda demon had been tried and tested over six successive administrations with seemingly no ill effect. The nation had just experienced its longest period of sustained prosperity in its history. With the exception of a few minor terrorist incidents and the minor annoyance of the Saddam Hussein regime, America was a nation at peace, strong and secure.
The reckoning came on September 11, 2001. Pandora's demon had done its work. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. For every politician condemning PART of America to advance his own agenda, there is an enemy or would-be enemy hearing the condemnation pronounced on ALL America.
"And a man's foes shall be they of his own household." (Matthew 10:36)
Excerpted from the Omega Letter Daily Intelligence Digest, Volume 50, Issue:26
This article made me sit back and think. When we scwabble about our man, run him through the mud, listen to all that is being reported and pick sides, it is playing right into this "dialectic".
A couple of weeks ago, someone was talking about Bush in another thread, and a friend of mine on this forum called it gossip. I thought that was incorrect, and even stated so. However, his statement kept running through my head because I knew somewhere deep down that he could be right. When I came across this article, I really feel it was the Lord gently telling me that my friend was right. (Thanks Todd) I guess our response to this climate of mudslinging should be- take it to the Lord. Pray. And vote based on how the Lord leads.
And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. Indeed. The Bible nails it once again.
As an aside, I think Bush could be a believer. I don't know him, but I have heard statements and read books that claim that he is a God fearing man.
So there is evidence for both sides.
But to answer your original question- is Bush America's hope. No. Only Yeshua is.
[right][snapback]26638[/snapback][/right]
jhammer you said it all. You said Bush could be a beliver. It funny cause so people think I could be a beliver and if you ask my enemies they will say no way is she trying to a Christain.
I pray before voting and before voting I have to look at my beliefs and who is the closest to that. I look at the Bible for alot of answers. Does the Bible say abortion is right or wrong ( this was example). Then what person(in my opinion who is best quailified to repersent me in my beliefs in God.)
Kim
Hi Marta, Yes, he DID say that Jesus changed his heart. Public Service TV did a programme called 'The Jesus Factor' about GWB and included in it was a line up of the hopeful presidental candidates prior to the last election. Each candidate was asked to nominate which philosopher or what ever who had the greatest influence on his (no, there were no ladies!) life. GWB just said 'Jesus'. There was a pause and then the interviewer asked him to expand on it. GWB said, 'Because he changed my life.' He said some other stuff to but basically that was it.
The other stuff, anti gay, pro life (except for capital punishment) etc is on the record.
As I mentioned, I am not an American and I have to say that the message coming out of the US is rather confusing - sorry, very confusing! The Religious Right or the Moral Majority or whatever is the latest name it goes under is firmly on GWB's side. I believe the Bible says that only God has the right to take life. I don't think it was delegated to anyone else. The fact that there is such an outcry about abortion and euthenasia makes it very strange. Before anyone accuses me of being pro abortion, etc. I'm not. Just terribly confused. Thanks for listening.
Suprise! I'm posting first...imagine that!
First of all, where are your sources stating that he is a born again Christian. When did he say that Jesus changed his heart? I've never heard him say it himself. Do you have links of Bush publicly stating all this? He is very pro-capital punishment; when he was the governor of Texas he was proud it was #1 in it's executions.
Is he hope for the Christian world? I'm going with a simple:
NO
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The other stuff, anti gay, pro life (except for capital punishment) etc is on the record.
As I mentioned, I am not an American and I have to say that the message coming out of the US is rather confusing - sorry, very confusing! The Religious Right or the Moral Majority or whatever is the latest name it goes under is firmly on GWB's side. I believe the Bible says that only God has the right to take life. I don't think it was delegated to anyone else. The fact that there is such an outcry about abortion and euthenasia makes it very strange. Before anyone accuses me of being pro abortion, etc. I'm not. Just terribly confused. Thanks for listening.
QUOTE(Marta @ Dec 3 2005, 08:24 AM)
QUOTE(patronkerr @ Dec 3 2005, 02:58 AM)
[B]As an non-American, I have a question to which I would appreciate those Americans among the readers of the site to address.
George W. Bush has said Jesus changed his heart. He is a born again Christian, he prays, he is anti-gay and anti same sex marriage. He is against abortion and pro capital punishment (an eye for an eye). These are all good Biblical beliefs. Therefore, I would like opinions on whether he is the hope for the Christian world.
[right][snapback]26609[/snapback][/right]
George W. Bush has said Jesus changed his heart. He is a born again Christian, he prays, he is anti-gay and anti same sex marriage. He is against abortion and pro capital punishment (an eye for an eye). These are all good Biblical beliefs. Therefore, I would like opinions on whether he is the hope for the Christian world.
[right][snapback]26609[/snapback][/right]
Suprise! I'm posting first...imagine that!
First of all, where are your sources stating that he is a born again Christian. When did he say that Jesus changed his heart? I've never heard him say it himself. Do you have links of Bush publicly stating all this? He is very pro-capital punishment; when he was the governor of Texas he was proud it was #1 in it's executions.
Is he hope for the Christian world? I'm going with a simple:
NO
[right][snapback]26625[/snapback][/right]
QUOTE(Marta @ Dec 3 2005, 07:24 AM)
QUOTE(patronkerr @ Dec 3 2005, 02:58 AM)
[B]As an non-American, I have a question to which I would appreciate those Americans among the readers of the site to address.
George W. Bush has said Jesus changed his heart. He is a born again Christian, he prays, he is anti-gay and anti same sex marriage. He is against abortion and pro capital punishment (an eye for an eye). These are all good Biblical beliefs. Therefore, I would like opinions on whether he is the hope for the Christian world.
[right][snapback]26609[/snapback][/right]
George W. Bush has said Jesus changed his heart. He is a born again Christian, he prays, he is anti-gay and anti same sex marriage. He is against abortion and pro capital punishment (an eye for an eye). These are all good Biblical beliefs. Therefore, I would like opinions on whether he is the hope for the Christian world.
[right][snapback]26609[/snapback][/right]
Suprise! I'm posting first...imagine that!
First of all, where are your sources stating that he is a born again Christian. When did he say that Jesus changed his heart? I've never heard him say it himself. Do you have links of Bush publicly stating all this? He is very pro-capital punishment; when he was the governor of Texas he was proud it was #1 in it's executions.
Is he hope for the Christian world? I'm going with a simple:
NO
[right][snapback]26625[/snapback][/right]
There is a believer...his name is Arthur Blessitt who carries a huge cross all over the world telling people all over about salvation and the sacrifdice of Jesus for our sins...I believe I remember coming across something talking about how he had witnessed to GW Bush (Jr I think)...I came across it the other night when I put in on the aol search for Arthur Blessitt...it was in a list of articals/sites in connection with the name...hope that helps... Really sleepy and so I'm sorry but I've gotta head on to bed....G'night all...
PS. I forgot to say...in answer to your question there is only ONE hope for everyone...and it is found in the blessed name of Jesus! And on that note, NOW I'll say g'night!!!!
Jesus Christ.
HE is the HOPE OF THE NATIONS.
it is in His Kingdom, that i put my trust, and hope.
it does not belong to any man, who is walking.
the token is in the Spirit of the Christ.
this is sent by God, in the name of his Son.
but is not from a human source.
no, no bush.
the bush will burn.
God's Kingdom is not from the source of men.
it is as a "stone cut of a mountain,
NOT BY HUMAN HANDS".
so says the prophecy of Daniel.
and God's word is true.
the fruitage is plainly in evidence.
and the COURT will take its seat.
and BOOKS shall be opened.
and the KIndgom shall be given to the holy ones.
but the holy ones shall first be given over to the BEAST,
for,
before GLORY
there is HUMILITY.
and PRIDE,
is before a crash.
-bz
HE is the HOPE OF THE NATIONS.
it is in His Kingdom, that i put my trust, and hope.
it does not belong to any man, who is walking.
the token is in the Spirit of the Christ.
this is sent by God, in the name of his Son.
but is not from a human source.
no, no bush.
the bush will burn.
God's Kingdom is not from the source of men.
it is as a "stone cut of a mountain,
NOT BY HUMAN HANDS".
so says the prophecy of Daniel.
and God's word is true.
the fruitage is plainly in evidence.
and the COURT will take its seat.
and BOOKS shall be opened.
and the KIndgom shall be given to the holy ones.
but the holy ones shall first be given over to the BEAST,
for,
before GLORY
there is HUMILITY.
and PRIDE,
is before a crash.
-bz
Bush has said he's a born again Christian and he also said when asked which historical figure had the greatest influence on him he responded "Jesus Christ".
I loved it. It was a great TV moment.
But l think he made a conscious decision over what he's doing in the middle east.
But God turns the head of Kings...
We should be careful of what thoughts we entertain...God hears...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
Leia says: I know a lot of really good Masons and government individuals who are in the "system" and think they can make things better, that are even good Christians and help their brother and pray and think they are doing right but don't see the bi picture. I think Bush has "sold out" to a little er picture that is all.
So called Christians who are Masons don't see the picture at all.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What if GW does get it....What if in the midst of everything (skull n bones included....) he saw the light?
Try to imagine this nightmare scenario....
We need to think carefully about this...What blackmail might be over his head...What hostages? A whole nation....?
I loved it. It was a great TV moment.
But l think he made a conscious decision over what he's doing in the middle east.
But God turns the head of Kings...
We should be careful of what thoughts we entertain...God hears...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
Leia says: I know a lot of really good Masons and government individuals who are in the "system" and think they can make things better, that are even good Christians and help their brother and pray and think they are doing right but don't see the bi picture. I think Bush has "sold out" to a little er picture that is all.
So called Christians who are Masons don't see the picture at all.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What if GW does get it....What if in the midst of everything (skull n bones included....) he saw the light?
Try to imagine this nightmare scenario....
We need to think carefully about this...What blackmail might be over his head...What hostages? A whole nation....?
Patronkerr
what Country are you from?
Kim
what Country are you from?
Kim
QUOTE(Miki @ Dec 4 2005, 06:46 AM)
Bush has said he's a born again Christian and he also said when asked which historical figure had the greatest influence on him he responded "Jesus Christ".
I loved it. It was a great TV moment.
But l think he made a conscious decision over what he's doing in the middle east.
But God turns the head of Kings...
We should be careful of what thoughts we entertain...God hears...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
Leia says: I know a lot of really good Masons and government individuals who are in the "system" and think they can make things better, that are even good Christians and help their brother and pray and think they are doing right but don't see the bi picture. I think Bush has "sold out" to a little er picture that is all.
So called Christians who are Masons don't see the picture at all.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What if GW does get it....What if in the midst of everything (skull n bones included....) he saw the light?
Try to imagine this nightmare scenario....
We need to think carefully about this...What blackmail might be over his head...What hostages? A whole nation....?
[right][snapback]26763[/snapback][/right]
I loved it. It was a great TV moment.
But l think he made a conscious decision over what he's doing in the middle east.
But God turns the head of Kings...
We should be careful of what thoughts we entertain...God hears...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
Leia says: I know a lot of really good Masons and government individuals who are in the "system" and think they can make things better, that are even good Christians and help their brother and pray and think they are doing right but don't see the bi picture. I think Bush has "sold out" to a little er picture that is all.
So called Christians who are Masons don't see the picture at all.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What if GW does get it....What if in the midst of everything (skull n bones included....) he saw the light?
Try to imagine this nightmare scenario....
We need to think carefully about this...What blackmail might be over his head...What hostages? A whole nation....?
[right][snapback]26763[/snapback][/right]
Yes, perhaps they see no picture beyond Christ is the son of God...I have an issue whether He is even Lord to them for their souls are turned over to earthly men and most of them do not even know they are dead. Even Satan knows Jesus is God's son....it is horrible to see good people deceived to the point they will not listen. The hardness of the heart...perhaps, then I must reconsider how good they were...I find it easy to see the best scenerio, but I am probably far mislead by the desire to see the best in people. My own shortcoming, and I thank you, mysister, for checking me. It is not a reasonable conclusion.
As for the burning Bush, yes, so be careful. Perhaps he began good and surcomed as I said, perhaps he was hard hearted to begin with and deceiveing himself....but there is not a government that God did not place on the earth. And God will use them as intends.
God's will, not Bush's will, and perhaps Bush will be used in God's will. Perhaps what he does will be what God wants in order to protect or instigate to bring what God whats. Not knowing God's will, who can say what Bush does is "right" or "wrong"? Sister, I believe Bush will "get it right", in that he will do as God pleases for this world, as God has planned. I believe God put him there. Whether he will in the end go to the new kingdom as God's child or not, that is another matter.
So called Christian Masons are asleep like every other lukewarm believer...
The point l'm making about Bush though is... what if .... he really does get it. Imagine the nightmare scenerio framed in Martas's way of thinking...
What blackmail might be over him to make certain decisions....
What a movie huh?
The point l'm making about Bush though is... what if .... he really does get it. Imagine the nightmare scenerio framed in Martas's way of thinking...
What blackmail might be over him to make certain decisions....
What a movie huh?
[quote=Miki,Dec 4 2005, 08:04 AM]
What blackmail might be over him to make certain decisions....
Hi Miki,
Let’s not forget GW has 2 strikes against him, remember in Daniel 7:7-8, 24 that Daniel considered ‘the ten horns’ and a ‘little horn’ came up among ‘them’ and the three that were ‘before him’ he was and is subduing.
Plus in Revelation 17:16-17 it says That God has put it into the hearts of these ‘last 10 kings’ to fulfill His will, to AGREE and GIVE their kingdom to the beast, until His words are fulfilled.
The millennial reign of His Son is at the ‘end of this tunnel’ God has put ‘hooks’ in GW’s jaws and all we can do is sit back and watch. The book of Revelaton has BEEN WRITTEN, no changes please!
Giving Him the glory, a Ezekiel 33:6 watching one, REPENT the Kingdom of God is at hand, make your election SURE
What blackmail might be over him to make certain decisions....
Hi Miki,
Let’s not forget GW has 2 strikes against him, remember in Daniel 7:7-8, 24 that Daniel considered ‘the ten horns’ and a ‘little horn’ came up among ‘them’ and the three that were ‘before him’ he was and is subduing.
Plus in Revelation 17:16-17 it says That God has put it into the hearts of these ‘last 10 kings’ to fulfill His will, to AGREE and GIVE their kingdom to the beast, until His words are fulfilled.
The millennial reign of His Son is at the ‘end of this tunnel’ God has put ‘hooks’ in GW’s jaws and all we can do is sit back and watch. The book of Revelaton has BEEN WRITTEN, no changes please!
Giving Him the glory, a Ezekiel 33:6 watching one, REPENT the Kingdom of God is at hand, make your election SURE
Ha! Don't worry..I'm not trying to change the book of Revelations! 
Just thinking out loud...
You sure seem to have a handle on the interpretation though...
Well....In my 'TWISTED WAY' of thinking............. 
Here is my two cents:
But these 10 kings do not have a nation correct? They are nationless, but they will agree and give their kingdom to the beast. Hmmmmmmm
Interesting. Gav does have an very mind awakening way of interpreting Revelation. Which IS the most DIFFICULT Bible to interpret.....full of symbolism; like uh.....D.C...right Gav?
Here is my two cents:
QUOTE
Plus in Revelation 17:16-17 it says That God has put it into the hearts of these ‘last 10 kings’ to fulfill His will, to AGREE and GIVE their kingdom to the beast, until His words are fulfilled
But these 10 kings do not have a nation correct? They are nationless, but they will agree and give their kingdom to the beast. Hmmmmmmm
Interesting. Gav does have an very mind awakening way of interpreting Revelation. Which IS the most DIFFICULT Bible to interpret.....full of symbolism; like uh.....D.C...right Gav?
Australia.
QUOTE(kim48 @ Dec 4 2005, 07:53 AM)
Patronkerr
what Country are you from?
Kim
[right][snapback]26765[/snapback][/right]
what Country are you from?
Kim
[right][snapback]26765[/snapback][/right]
[quote=Marta,Dec 4 2005, 05:24 PM]
Marta asked, “But these 10 kings do not have a nation correct? They are nation less, but they will agree and give their kingdom to the beast. Hmmmmmmm
Interesting.”
Hi Marta, They do have a nation and I believe if we look at the text closely and do a little ‘studying’ on our own, we will see that it can only be the United States of America that is this last great “fourth kingdom”.
THEY ARE WILLFUL “ONE MINDED” PARTICIPANTS
I believe the first of ten kings, received kingship or his ‘crown’ into the “beast kingdom” on January 20, 1961 when JFK was sworn in as the 35th President and started giving his “power and strength” plus his allegiance to the beast and the remaining nine followed suite.
The “last ten” Presidents vision, has been and is to spread western capitalism, its music, movies, drugs, sex and sports to every country in the world while still controlling them economically, politically and militarily. In other words the ten kings were and are willing participants in bringing to fruition the “New World Order” global system of world governance while at the same time weakening and giving there country over to outside forces.
Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
Revelation 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. 15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
Revelation 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. 18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth
They make war with the lamb by following and doing what the “Mother of harlots”, Athena/Freedom, who sits on their Capitol dome represents ‘freedom from’ God and Yeshua. These ten Presidents’ have spread the ‘social vices’ of capitalism throughout the world.
They not only have taken God and prayer out of our schools but have given our technology and military secrets to our enemies. They have hurriedly passed through and enacted unjust laws through Congress. They have approved trade agreements such as NAFTA AND GATT that have weakened our economy and borders.
Through these efforts they have so weakened and softened us up that our enemies will easily come in and burn us with fire, Revelation 18 says it will happen within “one hour”!
Little do they know that God, through them is fulfilling His will, so His son, Yeshua’s millennial kingdom can come. It is Washington DC that is reigning over all the kings of the world.
Giving Him the glory, a Ezekiel 33:6 watching one REPENT the Kingdom of God is at hand, make your election SURE
Marta asked, “But these 10 kings do not have a nation correct? They are nation less, but they will agree and give their kingdom to the beast. Hmmmmmmm
Interesting.”
Hi Marta, They do have a nation and I believe if we look at the text closely and do a little ‘studying’ on our own, we will see that it can only be the United States of America that is this last great “fourth kingdom”.
THEY ARE WILLFUL “ONE MINDED” PARTICIPANTS
I believe the first of ten kings, received kingship or his ‘crown’ into the “beast kingdom” on January 20, 1961 when JFK was sworn in as the 35th President and started giving his “power and strength” plus his allegiance to the beast and the remaining nine followed suite.
The “last ten” Presidents vision, has been and is to spread western capitalism, its music, movies, drugs, sex and sports to every country in the world while still controlling them economically, politically and militarily. In other words the ten kings were and are willing participants in bringing to fruition the “New World Order” global system of world governance while at the same time weakening and giving there country over to outside forces.
Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
Revelation 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. 15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
Revelation 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. 18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth
They make war with the lamb by following and doing what the “Mother of harlots”, Athena/Freedom, who sits on their Capitol dome represents ‘freedom from’ God and Yeshua. These ten Presidents’ have spread the ‘social vices’ of capitalism throughout the world.
They not only have taken God and prayer out of our schools but have given our technology and military secrets to our enemies. They have hurriedly passed through and enacted unjust laws through Congress. They have approved trade agreements such as NAFTA AND GATT that have weakened our economy and borders.
Through these efforts they have so weakened and softened us up that our enemies will easily come in and burn us with fire, Revelation 18 says it will happen within “one hour”!
Little do they know that God, through them is fulfilling His will, so His son, Yeshua’s millennial kingdom can come. It is Washington DC that is reigning over all the kings of the world.
Giving Him the glory, a Ezekiel 33:6 watching one REPENT the Kingdom of God is at hand, make your election SURE
I've seen nimerous Bible codes that call George W. Bush the Son of Satan, so if he's saying he's a Christian, it's only to trick us and decieve us. Satan's very clever, so I wouldn't put it past a man like Bush to actually be a Satanist in Christian clothing. A wolf in sheep's clothing, so to speak.
I read on a conspiracy website an article written by the Christian son of the founder of the Church of Satan who said he recalls seeing Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. at his father's Satanic rituals in a Colorado castle. He said that he found him rather cold and perfect for the Devil's work.
I'll warn you ahead of time that this site is a compilation of many people's findings, thoughts, and opinions, and that some of it might be offensive to a Christian (some was very offensive to me), but some of it is true and needs to be known.
George Bush at Rituals
If I were you, I would follow what the JW's do-DON'T VOTE. You don't want to accidentally elect a fake of a president who turns out to be a Satanic anti-Christ, do you?
And, no, I'm not a JW, I actually try to convert people out of that sect because, like the Masons, their higher orders are incredibly secretive and are actually involved in Satanic Rituals and the Illuminati. The Illuminati actually have a JW's sect!
But when it comes to things like politics, they have the right idea, stay away.
I read on a conspiracy website an article written by the Christian son of the founder of the Church of Satan who said he recalls seeing Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. at his father's Satanic rituals in a Colorado castle. He said that he found him rather cold and perfect for the Devil's work.
I'll warn you ahead of time that this site is a compilation of many people's findings, thoughts, and opinions, and that some of it might be offensive to a Christian (some was very offensive to me), but some of it is true and needs to be known.
George Bush at Rituals
If I were you, I would follow what the JW's do-DON'T VOTE. You don't want to accidentally elect a fake of a president who turns out to be a Satanic anti-Christ, do you?
And, no, I'm not a JW, I actually try to convert people out of that sect because, like the Masons, their higher orders are incredibly secretive and are actually involved in Satanic Rituals and the Illuminati. The Illuminati actually have a JW's sect!
But when it comes to things like politics, they have the right idea, stay away.
QUOTE(Marta @ Dec 3 2005, 08:43 AM)
Yeah but it is sad how they are going to get rid of that, 'One Nation Under God'; because it is offensive to people???????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here's the thing though:
Not every person who professes to be a Christian is one.
Faith without works, without tangible deeds of obedience, is dead faith – it is the faith of devils. (James 2:10-24) Jesus asks, “Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46) “Ye shall know them by their fruits. Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matthew 7:16-20)
[right][snapback]26629[/snapback][/right]
Here's the thing though:
Not every person who professes to be a Christian is one.
Faith without works, without tangible deeds of obedience, is dead faith – it is the faith of devils. (James 2:10-24) Jesus asks, “Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46) “Ye shall know them by their fruits. Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matthew 7:16-20)
[right][snapback]26629[/snapback][/right]
Hello Patron Kerr,
You will find that being in America does not mean that we are all identical. In fact what the media puts out does not really say who Americans might be. We are of all brands and that is what makes America, America. If you try to make sense out of what you hear, it is no wonder that you are confused. The main thing is to realize that all people, no matter where they live, what color they might be, or what they believe has no bearing on whether they are good or bad. We are all created by God! We all fall far short of God's ideal! The only nationality that is important is called the Kingdom of God! Jesus is the one who is the door to that Kingdom. He is the Holy One, the Righteous One, our only Savior. When we come to Him, asking for Him to be our God, He accepts us. And the price is paid for our sin. His Blood avails! There are many, many scriptures to back up what I have said!! This is the only way to sort out the confusions
justaservant
You will find that being in America does not mean that we are all identical. In fact what the media puts out does not really say who Americans might be. We are of all brands and that is what makes America, America. If you try to make sense out of what you hear, it is no wonder that you are confused. The main thing is to realize that all people, no matter where they live, what color they might be, or what they believe has no bearing on whether they are good or bad. We are all created by God! We all fall far short of God's ideal! The only nationality that is important is called the Kingdom of God!
Jesus is the one who is the door to that Kingdom. He is the Holy One, the Righteous One, our only Savior. When we come to Him, asking for Him to be our God, He accepts us. And the price is paid for our sin. His Blood avails! There are many, many scriptures to back up what I have said!! This is the only way to sort out the confusions justaservant
Yes, Justaservant, you are so obviously right. We are so dependant on the media and things like films (are films media?)
The USA swamps the world with its culture and I'm afraid that is the image of America -sorry, the US part of America - which the world gets. I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that the US is a very inward looking country. I'm also going to excuse it by saying that, at this moment in time, it is understandable because of its wealth, the size of the population and its military power.
However, a note of warning. History shows that such empires never last. Rome, Britain, France, Spain etc etc all have had their turn and as I say, at the moment, it's the Era of the USA. However, it could be that the writing is on the wall. The USA national debt is beyond anything experienced before. It is involved with a war which shows no end. These are just two factors in many.
I hope I am wrong. China is waiting in the wings.
Of course, there are wonderful people in the USA - thousands and thousands of them but those wonderful people don't run the Government or control the media.
The USA swamps the world with its culture and I'm afraid that is the image of America -sorry, the US part of America - which the world gets. I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that the US is a very inward looking country. I'm also going to excuse it by saying that, at this moment in time, it is understandable because of its wealth, the size of the population and its military power.
However, a note of warning. History shows that such empires never last. Rome, Britain, France, Spain etc etc all have had their turn and as I say, at the moment, it's the Era of the USA. However, it could be that the writing is on the wall. The USA national debt is beyond anything experienced before. It is involved with a war which shows no end. These are just two factors in many.
I hope I am wrong. China is waiting in the wings.
Of course, there are wonderful people in the USA - thousands and thousands of them but those wonderful people don't run the Government or control the media.
QUOTE(justaservant @ Dec 17 2005, 05:00 PM)
Hello Patron Kerr,
You will find that being in America does not mean that we are all identical. In fact what the media puts out does not really say who Americans might be. We are of all brands and that is what makes America, America. If you try to make sense out of what you hear, it is no wonder that you are confused. The main thing is to realize that all people, no matter where they live, what color they might be, or what they believe has no bearing on whether they are good or bad. We are all created by God! We all fall far short of God's ideal! The only nationality that is important is called the Kingdom of God! Jesus is the one who is the door to that Kingdom. He is the Holy One, the Righteous One, our only Savior. When we come to Him, asking for Him to be our God, He accepts us. And the price is paid for our sin. His Blood avails! There are many, many scriptures to back up what I have said!! This is the only way to sort out the confusions
justaservant
[right][snapback]28938[/snapback][/right]
You will find that being in America does not mean that we are all identical. In fact what the media puts out does not really say who Americans might be. We are of all brands and that is what makes America, America. If you try to make sense out of what you hear, it is no wonder that you are confused. The main thing is to realize that all people, no matter where they live, what color they might be, or what they believe has no bearing on whether they are good or bad. We are all created by God! We all fall far short of God's ideal! The only nationality that is important is called the Kingdom of God!
Jesus is the one who is the door to that Kingdom. He is the Holy One, the Righteous One, our only Savior. When we come to Him, asking for Him to be our God, He accepts us. And the price is paid for our sin. His Blood avails! There are many, many scriptures to back up what I have said!! This is the only way to sort out the confusions justaservant
[right][snapback]28938[/snapback][/right]
Hi everybody
I sincerely hope you had a wonderful Christmas preferably with your friends and nearest and dearest around you. That is so necessary for the full enjoyment of Christmas.
Regarding my reply to Justaservant, I haven't had anybody threaten to tear me limb from limb for my comments. There could be a few reasons for this.
Frstly, some could see the truth in what I am saying.
Secondly, some could decided to ignore it.
Thirdly, you are all too kind and don't want to get involved in a dispute.
However I would be interested in people's views.
I am just pointing out that NO country is perfect. We all like to think that we live in the best place in the world and that is normal. I like living in Australia and until a few weeks ago, I was terribly proud that 148 (approx) ethnic groups of people could live here in almost total harmony. Then there comes those awful racist riots in Sydney. In only a very very small part of a very large country, I would point out but it was enough to make me feel so depressed. I don't doubt that it will get back to normal given time but the fact that it happened is still so terribly sad. Was it caused by religion or just thuggary? Whatever it was, it wasn't justified.
Religion - any religion - gets the blame for a lot of things and, dare I say, is used as an excuse for a lot of nasty things. Even Christianity hasn't a clean sheet if history is any judge.
So, people, all I can say is treat others as you would be treated yourself. NO ONE is ALWAYS right. I say that with 70 years of life behind me. Don't hang on every word of the Bible or look for the translation which suits your beliefs best. The Bible even justifies slavery if you find the right verse.
Reread the first line of the above paragraph and you won't go far wrong!
This my final entry on this site. I won't be contibution any more. I just like making people think beyond their square. I realise that some are set in concrete but I try!
I can't restrain my curiosity however and I will return of course to check out any comments I get. I have a feeling that there will be some 'lu-lus'!!
Have a wonderful New Year. Believe me, the world will NOT end in the next 12 months regardless of what the Book of Relevations says - well, unless GWB does something especially crazy!
My very and most sincere best wishes to you all - and I mean ALL!
Patron
I sincerely hope you had a wonderful Christmas preferably with your friends and nearest and dearest around you. That is so necessary for the full enjoyment of Christmas.
Regarding my reply to Justaservant, I haven't had anybody threaten to tear me limb from limb for my comments. There could be a few reasons for this.
Frstly, some could see the truth in what I am saying.
Secondly, some could decided to ignore it.
Thirdly, you are all too kind and don't want to get involved in a dispute.
However I would be interested in people's views.
I am just pointing out that NO country is perfect. We all like to think that we live in the best place in the world and that is normal. I like living in Australia and until a few weeks ago, I was terribly proud that 148 (approx) ethnic groups of people could live here in almost total harmony. Then there comes those awful racist riots in Sydney. In only a very very small part of a very large country, I would point out but it was enough to make me feel so depressed. I don't doubt that it will get back to normal given time but the fact that it happened is still so terribly sad. Was it caused by religion or just thuggary? Whatever it was, it wasn't justified.
Religion - any religion - gets the blame for a lot of things and, dare I say, is used as an excuse for a lot of nasty things. Even Christianity hasn't a clean sheet if history is any judge.
So, people, all I can say is treat others as you would be treated yourself. NO ONE is ALWAYS right. I say that with 70 years of life behind me. Don't hang on every word of the Bible or look for the translation which suits your beliefs best. The Bible even justifies slavery if you find the right verse.
Reread the first line of the above paragraph and you won't go far wrong!
This my final entry on this site. I won't be contibution any more. I just like making people think beyond their square. I realise that some are set in concrete but I try!
I can't restrain my curiosity however and I will return of course to check out any comments I get. I have a feeling that there will be some 'lu-lus'!!
Have a wonderful New Year. Believe me, the world will NOT end in the next 12 months regardless of what the Book of Relevations says - well, unless GWB does something especially crazy!
My very and most sincere best wishes to you all - and I mean ALL!
Patron
QUOTE(patronkerr @ Dec 22 2005, 01:17 AM)
Yes, Justaservant, you are so obviously right. We are so dependant on the media and things like films (are films media?)
The USA swamps the world with its culture and I'm afraid that is the image of America -sorry, the US part of America - which the world gets. I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that the US is a very inward looking country. I'm also going to excuse it by saying that, at this moment in time, it is understandable because of its wealth, the size of the population and its military power.
However, a note of warning. History shows that such empires never last. Rome, Britain, France, Spain etc etc all have had their turn and as I say, at the moment, it's the Era of the USA. However, it could be that the writing is on the wall. The USA national debt is beyond anything experienced before. It is involved with a war which shows no end. These are just two factors in many.
I hope I am wrong. China is waiting in the wings.
Of course, there are wonderful people in the USA - thousands and thousands of them but those wonderful people don't run the Government or control the media.
[right][snapback]29474[/snapback][/right]
The USA swamps the world with its culture and I'm afraid that is the image of America -sorry, the US part of America - which the world gets. I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that the US is a very inward looking country. I'm also going to excuse it by saying that, at this moment in time, it is understandable because of its wealth, the size of the population and its military power.
However, a note of warning. History shows that such empires never last. Rome, Britain, France, Spain etc etc all have had their turn and as I say, at the moment, it's the Era of the USA. However, it could be that the writing is on the wall. The USA national debt is beyond anything experienced before. It is involved with a war which shows no end. These are just two factors in many.
I hope I am wrong. China is waiting in the wings.
Of course, there are wonderful people in the USA - thousands and thousands of them but those wonderful people don't run the Government or control the media.
QUOTE(justaservant @ Dec 17 2005, 05:00 PM)
Hello Patron Kerr,
You will find that being in America does not mean that we are all identical. In fact what the media puts out does not really say who Americans might be. We are of all brands and that is what makes America, America. If you try to make sense out of what you hear, it is no wonder that you are confused. The main thing is to realize that all people, no matter where they live, what color they might be, or what they believe has no bearing on whether they are good or bad. We are all created by God! We all fall far short of God's ideal! The only nationality that is important is called the Kingdom of God! Jesus is the one who is the door to that Kingdom. He is the Holy One, the Righteous One, our only Savior. When we come to Him, asking for Him to be our God, He accepts us. And the price is paid for our sin. His Blood avails! There are many, many scriptures to back up what I have said!! This is the only way to sort out the confusions
justaservant
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You will find that being in America does not mean that we are all identical. In fact what the media puts out does not really say who Americans might be. We are of all brands and that is what makes America, America. If you try to make sense out of what you hear, it is no wonder that you are confused. The main thing is to realize that all people, no matter where they live, what color they might be, or what they believe has no bearing on whether they are good or bad. We are all created by God! We all fall far short of God's ideal! The only nationality that is important is called the Kingdom of God!
Jesus is the one who is the door to that Kingdom. He is the Holy One, the Righteous One, our only Savior. When we come to Him, asking for Him to be our God, He accepts us. And the price is paid for our sin. His Blood avails! There are many, many scriptures to back up what I have said!! This is the only way to sort out the confusions justaservant
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I hate to see you leave--I think you made some absolutely valid points. The US can't sustain such a debt or such a war indefinitely. Things definitely have to change, but I don't think they can change on their own or within the system as it is. It's going to take the Lord Himself to change things, and that's going to be a painful process to go through.
george bush is a pawn of the antichrist. i'm telling you he is not the antichrist, only his pawn.
Look who's getting Cozy with the Prez. (Javier Solana)
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/20...101jpg-515h.jpg
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/20...101jpg-515h.jpg
QUOTE(Gr8ful @ Dec 28 2005, 09:37 PM)
Look who's getting Cozy with the Prez. (Javier Solana)
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/20...101jpg-515h.jpg
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Yeah, it's a sick world isn't it. All about greed and power...makes you want to seriously vomit.
Yea there up to somthing non good.
QUOTE(Miki @ Dec 4 2005, 08:46 AM)
Bush has said he's a born again Christian and he also said when asked which historical figure had the greatest influence on him he responded "Jesus Christ".
I loved it. It was a great TV moment.
But l think he made a conscious decision over what he's doing in the middle east.
But God turns the head of Kings...
We should be careful of what thoughts we entertain...God hears...
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Leia says: I know a lot of really good Masons and government individuals who are in the "system" and think they can make things better, that are even good Christians and help their brother and pray and think they are doing right but don't see the bi picture. I think Bush has "sold out" to a little er picture that is all.
So called Christians who are Masons don't see the picture at all.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What if GW does get it....What if in the midst of everything (skull n bones included....) he saw the light?
Try to imagine this nightmare scenario....
We need to think carefully about this...What blackmail might be over his head...What hostages? A whole nation....?
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I loved it. It was a great TV moment.
But l think he made a conscious decision over what he's doing in the middle east.
But God turns the head of Kings...
We should be careful of what thoughts we entertain...God hears...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
Leia says: I know a lot of really good Masons and government individuals who are in the "system" and think they can make things better, that are even good Christians and help their brother and pray and think they are doing right but don't see the bi picture. I think Bush has "sold out" to a little er picture that is all.
So called Christians who are Masons don't see the picture at all.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What if GW does get it....What if in the midst of everything (skull n bones included....) he saw the light?
Try to imagine this nightmare scenario....
We need to think carefully about this...What blackmail might be over his head...What hostages? A whole nation....?
[right][snapback]26763[/snapback][/right]
Hi Miki.....I agree with you. I saw GW say "Jesus Christ" was the greatest historical figure that influnenced him....I was slackjawed
.....you could have dropped pennies in my mouth and tugged on my ears....and hit the jackpot! 
A few minutes later I shouted "Alright....good for you GW...good for you! Praise the Lord!" That took a heck of a lot of courage for him to say that on national TV. I bet everyone of GW people fainted in the back room of the set! That must have shocked the world.
Sorry folks....many of my relatives are from cowboy country.....Big Sky of Montana.... and yes....Texas! YeeHaw Do I agree with all that GW has done. Nope. But, I never agreed with all that any president has done in the past. I'm sorry folks, but I would much rather have Laura Bush than Tressa Hines Kerry as first lady..... I do not believe GW is the hope of the world....Jesus Christ is. But, I do believe every president we've had has been by the hand of God....to bring about God's prophecies. Isn't there some place in the Bible where God says he raises up kings and bring them down. You and I are here....at this time...in whatever country we are in...for a reason. I don't know what it is....but we are here for a reason....God has given us all a mission. Some will complete it some won't.....Did GW have a heart change....I believe that he did. Does it mean he has the best advisors? Nope. 
. And look at Clinton...he could fall in poo-poo and still come out smelling like a rose. 
I have been a Democrate for over 40 years and my mother (who just passed away) was a Democrate for over 60 years....we both became Republicians in the last eight years. Why? I cried to see how far we had fallen from the center as Democrates....and was shocked and embarrassed to see Democrates come unhinged, unglued and mean-spirited over the years. My best friends (Democrates) became mean spirited, yelling, and screaming with anyone who dared to disagree with them. I said, "Hey look I've been a Democrate for over 40 years...but what is wrong is wrong....and if I disagree let us do it in love, please." You would have thought I had burnt down their home and slaughtered their children before thier eye for disagreeing with them.
Where is all this hate coming from? 
They were never that way before! So I went to the Lord in prayer and the Lord had me step away in GW's first election....to look and see. What I saw was polarization! What I saw was anger and hate on a very evil level that I had never seen before. And they (Democrates) claimed to be from the party of peace and tolerance. I had friends on both sides....Democrates and Republicians and I'v got to admit....the Democrates were so mean and angry....and my Republicians friends would just say I disagree...they have their right to vote any way they want. Whoa....not with my Democrate friends. To Disagree is "Name calling time". I am sorry if I offend any of you...but I could no longer stay in a party that would say we need to be more religious to get the votes! Hello! Heart change folks....heart change not religion. We each must vote to what our hearts are telling us to do. We must read and study and ask the Lord for guidence. But, I see this hate ever growing....come next election time I am not going to the polls I'll vote by mail thank you very much.....and I am saddened by how we treat others when we go to the polls. We are Amerians....we are one people....not sectioned off sections of different nationalities wanting to speak different languages...English is the national language of America!!!! But the political correct will probable change that too. Iwill now get down off my soap box....Sheesh! Marie
QUOTE(Marie @ Jan 1 2006, 03:04 AM)
QUOTE(Miki @ Dec 4 2005, 08:46 AM)
Bush has said he's a born again Christian and he also said when asked which historical figure had the greatest influence on him he responded "Jesus Christ".
I loved it. It was a great TV moment.
But l think he made a conscious decision over what he's doing in the middle east.
But God turns the head of Kings...
We should be careful of what thoughts we entertain...God hears...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
Leia says: I know a lot of really good Masons and government individuals who are in the "system" and think they can make things better, that are even good Christians and help their brother and pray and think they are doing right but don't see the bi picture. I think Bush has "sold out" to a little er picture that is all.
So called Christians who are Masons don't see the picture at all.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What if GW does get it....What if in the midst of everything (skull n bones included....) he saw the light?
Try to imagine this nightmare scenario....
We need to think carefully about this...What blackmail might be over his head...What hostages? A whole nation....?
[right][snapback]26763[/snapback][/right]
I loved it. It was a great TV moment.
But l think he made a conscious decision over what he's doing in the middle east.
But God turns the head of Kings...
We should be careful of what thoughts we entertain...God hears...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
Leia says: I know a lot of really good Masons and government individuals who are in the "system" and think they can make things better, that are even good Christians and help their brother and pray and think they are doing right but don't see the bi picture. I think Bush has "sold out" to a little er picture that is all.
So called Christians who are Masons don't see the picture at all.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What if GW does get it....What if in the midst of everything (skull n bones included....) he saw the light?
Try to imagine this nightmare scenario....
We need to think carefully about this...What blackmail might be over his head...What hostages? A whole nation....?
[right][snapback]26763[/snapback][/right]
Hi Miki.....I agree with you. I saw GW say "Jesus Christ" was the greatest historical figure that influnenced him....I was slackjawed
.....you could have dropped pennies in my mouth and tugged on my ears....and hit the jackpot! A few minutes later I shouted "Alright....good for you GW...good for you! Praise the Lord!" That took a heck of a lot of courage for him to say that on national TV. I bet everyone of GW people fainted in the back room of the set! That must have shocked the world.
Sorry folks....many of my relatives are from cowboy country.....Big Sky of Montana.... and yes....Texas! YeeHaw Do I agree with all that GW has done. Nope. But, I never agreed with all that any president has done in the past. I'm sorry folks, but I would much rather have Laura Bush than Tressa Hines Kerry as first lady..... I do not believe GW is the hope of the world....Jesus Christ is. But, I do believe every president we've had has been by the hand of God....to bring about God's prophecies. Isn't there some place in the Bible where God says he raises up kings and bring them down. You and I are here....at this time...in whatever country we are in...for a reason. I don't know what it is....but we are here for a reason....God has given us all a mission. Some will complete it some won't.....Did GW have a heart change....I believe that he did. Does it mean he has the best advisors? Nope. . And look at Clinton...he could fall in poo-poo and still come out smelling like a rose. I have been a Democrate for over 40 years and my mother (who just passed away) was a Democrate for over 60 years....we both became Republicians in the last eight years. Why? I cried to see how far we had fallen from the center as Democrates....and was shocked and embarrassed to see Democrates come unhinged, unglued and mean-spirited over the years. My best friends (Democrates) became mean spirited, yelling, and screaming with anyone who dared to disagree with them. I said, "Hey look I've been a Democrate for over 40 years...but what is wrong is wrong....and if I disagree let us do it in love, please." You would have thought I had burnt down their home and slaughtered their children before thier eye for disagreeing with them.
Where is all this hate coming from? They were never that way before! So I went to the Lord in prayer and the Lord had me step away in GW's first election....to look and see. What I saw was polarization! What I saw was anger and hate on a very evil level that I had never seen before. And they (Democrates) claimed to be from the party of peace and tolerance. I had friends on both sides....Democrates and Republicians and I'v got to admit....the Democrates were so mean and angry....and my Republicians friends would just say I disagree...they have their right to vote any way they want. Whoa....not with my Democrate friends. To Disagree is "Name calling time". I am sorry if I offend any of you...but I could no longer stay in a party that would say we need to be more religious to get the votes! Hello! Heart change folks....heart change not religion. We each must vote to what our hearts are telling us to do. We must read and study and ask the Lord for guidence. But, I see this hate ever growing....come next election time I am not going to the polls I'll vote by mail thank you very much.....and I am saddened by how we treat others when we go to the polls. We are Amerians....we are one people....not sectioned off sections of different nationalities wanting to speak different languages...English is the national language of America!!!! But the political correct will probable change that too. Iwill now get down off my soap box....Sheesh! Marie[right][snapback]30864[/snapback][/right]
Yup, I too changed from Dem to Rep. for exactly the same reasons, Bush might not be the best around but I think God knew what he was doing when he beat Al Gore and we went through all that Fla. mess...Benita
Speaking of Masons....
I was in Eastern Star and my Father was a Mason.....he went all the way to the top in Masons...
On the surface it appears as a friendly brotherhood.....on the surface. And there are sweet, kind and gentle people who are Christians who belong. But.....read some of there books.....you can get them at old used book stores.
We all got out of Masons many years ago.....My father joined because he was told if he joined he wouldn't be without work! He wanted to work...he was a welder. And he did work...all the time. But, I am curious...so I was always asking what do the symbols mean??? Why do you walk like that in the ritual? Why do you walk in between the Star like that during the Initation? No one could tell me. Odd? I asked why don't the people know what the signs mean and reasons for the ritual? I always got vague answers that made no sense. Then when my sister-in-law remarried her husband (who was a Christian and had some knowledge on Masons) was kind enough to shrare with us about Masons. We were shocked....stunned....in disblief...how could this be? He never pushed us...but now and then he would slip us information (reading material). In my heart of hearts I knew he was right....but I didn't know why....so I started to go to the Christian book store to get books on this....and found them. Then I asked my father if I could look at the book he was given when he joined. On page 321...Albert Pike is saying the Lucifer is the One who bears the Light of Freemasonary. Lucifer is the lightbearer of Freemasonary. I could go on and on...but I will stop here. There are many many Masons in local, state, and federal governments....MANY!!!!!!!! And they are ready to lead the world into the New World Order.....like Witchcraft and Satamism....there are circles within circles.....the outer circle knows very little....but the closer you come to the inner circles...the more you learn....and if you are willing to do what they ask....you are taken deeper into the circles....until you can not come out alive!!!!!!! Like I said....many innocent people belong...and they do not believe what is spoken about Masons......a simple little gal....I was back then.....but in my heart I knew something was wrong....but I did not know what...at that time I had no knowledge of the Occult........If you put an Occultist and a Mason together.....they have many things in common.....many. If you have no knowledge of the Occult....you don't recognize the symbols and signs.....but if you do know....you also know where you are.....the Christians wonder among wolves....and have no idea they are wolves.
I was in Eastern Star and my Father was a Mason.....he went all the way to the top in Masons...
On the surface it appears as a friendly brotherhood.....on the surface. And there are sweet, kind and gentle people who are Christians who belong. But.....read some of there books.....you can get them at old used book stores.
We all got out of Masons many years ago.....My father joined because he was told if he joined he wouldn't be without work! He wanted to work...he was a welder. And he did work...all the time. But, I am curious...so I was always asking what do the symbols mean??? Why do you walk like that in the ritual? Why do you walk in between the Star like that during the Initation?
No one could tell me. Odd? I asked why don't the people know what the signs mean and reasons for the ritual? I always got vague answers that made no sense. Then when my sister-in-law remarried her husband (who was a Christian and had some knowledge on Masons) was kind enough to shrare with us about Masons. We were shocked....stunned....in disblief...how could this be? He never pushed us...but now and then he would slip us information (reading material). In my heart of hearts I knew he was right....but I didn't know why....so I started to go to the Christian book store to get books on this....and found them. Then I asked my father if I could look at the book he was given when he joined. On page 321...Albert Pike is saying the Lucifer is the One who bears the Light of Freemasonary. Lucifer is the lightbearer of Freemasonary. I could go on and on...but I will stop here. There are many many Masons in local, state, and federal governments....MANY!!!!!!!! And they are ready to lead the world into the New World Order.....like Witchcraft and Satamism....there are circles within circles.....the outer circle knows very little....but the closer you come to the inner circles...the more you learn....and if you are willing to do what they ask....you are taken deeper into the circles....until you can not come out alive!!!!!!! Like I said....many innocent people belong...and they do not believe what is spoken about Masons......a simple little gal....I was back then.....but in my heart I knew something was wrong....but I did not know what...at that time I had no knowledge of the Occult........If you put an Occultist and a Mason together.....they have many things in common.....many. If you have no knowledge of the Occult....you don't recognize the symbols and signs.....but if you do know....you also know where you are.....the Christians wonder among wolves....and have no idea they are wolves.
Marie.........is now God's Lamb........I had to change the name....because I had a new e-mail address....and it would not let me use my name....or maybe I am computer challenged....duh! Gosh......I was really feeling at home with eveyone and they knew who I was....now so much to explain.....Sheesh. So I am still on the forums....just under God's Lamb now... 
Gosh......I was really feeling at home with eveyone and they knew who I was....now so much to explain.....Sheesh. So I am still on the forums....just under God's Lamb now...
Hey! I am surprised! I didn't get attacked as I thought I would because of suggesting that the USA isn't the new 'Heaven on Earth'. There are a lot of Americans (in the sence of those who live in the US) who really believe it is the only 'free' country in the world and the rest of those of us outside its borders have only one aim - to emmigrate there. Sorry, not so!
Anyhow, I said I wasn't going to contribute anymore to this discussion but I couldn't help it after reading something which bears out my statement a while back in the posts that every Empire has its day and then the baton is passed on to some other Empire.
Today I read an article by a well respected correspondent (Rupert Cornwall) in the Independant newspaper (UK) who claims that the US Empire is already in decline. He gives reasons which I am not going into but read his article.
A very Happy New Year, as they say, to all my readers!
PS I love being the Devil's Advocate!
Anyhow, I said I wasn't going to contribute anymore to this discussion but I couldn't help it after reading something which bears out my statement a while back in the posts that every Empire has its day and then the baton is passed on to some other Empire.
Today I read an article by a well respected correspondent (Rupert Cornwall) in the Independant newspaper (UK) who claims that the US Empire is already in decline. He gives reasons which I am not going into but read his article.
A very Happy New Year, as they say, to all my readers!
PS I love being the Devil's Advocate!
QUOTE(God's Lamb @ Jan 4 2006, 01:32 AM)
Marie.........is now God's Lamb........I had to change the name....because I had a new e-mail address....and it would not let me use my name....or maybe I am computer challenged....duh! Gosh......I was really feeling at home with eveyone and they knew who I was....now so much to explain.....Sheesh. So I am still on the forums....just under God's Lamb now...
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Gosh......I was really feeling at home with eveyone and they knew who I was....now so much to explain.....Sheesh. So I am still on the forums....just under God's Lamb now... [right][snapback]31434[/snapback][/right]
QUOTE(patronkerr @ Dec 3 2005, 08:58 AM)
[B]As an non-American, I have a question to which I would appreciate those Americans among the readers of the site to address.
George W. Bush has said Jesus changed his heart. He is a born again Christian, he prays, he is anti-gay and anti same sex marriage. He is against abortion and pro capital punishment (an eye for an eye). These are all good Biblical beliefs. Therefore, I would like opinions on whether he is the hope for the Christian world.
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George W. Bush has said Jesus changed his heart. He is a born again Christian, he prays, he is anti-gay and anti same sex marriage. He is against abortion and pro capital punishment (an eye for an eye). These are all good Biblical beliefs. Therefore, I would like opinions on whether he is the hope for the Christian world.
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Three is an answer for you in my article about "Dreams about Rapture"
posted by me.
Only God knows a mans heart whether he is truly bornagain and God holds all the world leaders in the hollow of His Hand. I do know that Pres. Bush believes in replacement theology (that the Church has replaced Israel) therefore he doesn't have any trouble deviding Gods land which God hates and brings trouble to the US. Need to read "Eye to Eye" by Koinige it is a real eye opener no pun intended.
Both GWB and Dr. Rice belong to a replacement theology in thier Christian beliefs. Specifically, in a nutshell, they believe that the new testament replaces the old testament. Along with that replacement is that "the times of the gentiles" means that the Jews WERE Gods chosen people, had thier chance to accept Jesus as thier Messiah, and rejected him. Now, it's the gentiles who are God's chosen.
For those of you who have been beating thier head against the wall wondering how GWB and Rice, both being professed Christians and supposedly knowing what the bible says concerning Israel, could make the decisions that they have. This explains it.
Is GWB the hope of Christians? NO WAY! GWB is just a man who puts his pants on like everyone else. Christians hope is in Jesus.
It seems that everytime we Americans go to the voting booths in November, more often than not it's a choice of the lesser of two evils, sad to say.
Given our choices in 2000 and 2004, GWB was by far the lesser of 2 evils.
For those of you who have been beating thier head against the wall wondering how GWB and Rice, both being professed Christians and supposedly knowing what the bible says concerning Israel, could make the decisions that they have. This explains it.
Is GWB the hope of Christians? NO WAY! GWB is just a man who puts his pants on like everyone else. Christians hope is in Jesus.
It seems that everytime we Americans go to the voting booths in November, more often than not it's a choice of the lesser of two evils, sad to say.
Given our choices in 2000 and 2004, GWB was by far the lesser of 2 evils.
the future is just like the past, you can't change it..
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