Here's a good verse to show that the word hell is a mistranslation and that it's simply a metaphor for utter destruction.

KJV
Revelation 20:14

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

If eternal torment in hell IS the lake of fire and the second death, how can it be cast into itself and destroyed? It's not but a mistranslation. Hell in the greek scriptures is translated from the word hades into the english hell, grave, and pit.

Now let us properly translate it.

"And death and the grave were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

Makes much more sense, to me at least. When you're in the grave you're unconscious, but you still have some chance of being resurrected. The second death, "the lake of fire", is not a conscious torment , but is a symbol for complete and utter destruction. The second death is loss of all hope of ever being resurrected, for it is complete and total non-existence.

Ecclesiastes clearly states that the dead are concious of absolutely nothing, and thus have no emotion to be tormented with. Jesus himself even equates death with sleep and unconsciousness-when you are dead you have no perception of time at all. It's like being knocked out (which I have been)-you have no idea how much time has passed before you become conscious again. Hence when you're resurrected it seems almost instantaneous, even though it may have taken thousands of years for it to happen.

Only God can create, Satan can only manipulate and destroy. I don't think that our loving God of mercy and forgiveness would create a literal place of eternal conscious torment and then, as the popular belief seems to be, install Satan, the source of evil himself, as it's ruler. The Bible clearly states that Satan is on earth and is the god/ruler of the earth. So, if anything, earth is the closest thing to a literal hell there was, is, and will ever be.

Remember, the wages of sin are death. Not a second life in another world. Just death.

Satan was intended to rule the earth, and he still does, just kinda "illegally". Think for a second...why would God reward Satan for being evil with power over a whole other world? He already had the earth when he rebelled, why would God give him more? In fact, he gave him less by kicking him out of Heaven and cutting him off from all the other angels. Hell is just non-existence, where your spirit is tossed if your too sinful and wicked, where you lose all hope of resurrection. There is no consciousness there. There is nothing there at all.

Death is kinda like your computer's recycle bin. You can put something in it and then change your mind and bring it back (first death/resurrection), but if you empty it (the second death) everything is destroyed.

Job?

You know, when kids are young they may say, "When I grow up, I want to be president." I never did. Can you imagine the headaches?

I really don't think "giving satan the world" was 1) actually giving it to him because the earth belongs to God and always will. The words just mean satan is allowed a goodly amount of freedom to live and ander and reek havic here. It is a testing ground for seperation to see who will follow him. And 2) I can't really see that it is such a gift. He can't do it...it way over his head and he is taking alot of heat even from his own folks for being so inept so he blames God's people. He can't be having fun. He thought he would. He thought he could. I think it was like when your children say, "I can do it!" more times than you care to hear and you say "OK, go ahead" (always making sure you are there to catch them when they fall) to teach them they are not as grown up as they thought they were.

What is hell? I figure satan has had a taste of it so far already. It was NOT a reward.

The world I was refering to is Hell. Sorry for the confusion.

I think it was punishment for Satan to be sent to earth, because it can't be easy trying to mess it up when God still owns it. It has to be a huge headache for Satan to be here. HUGE.

If literal Hell did exist, God would've damned Satan to dwell in it, not given him reign over it. It would've been a reward to allow Satan to rule it, because Satan loves tormenting people. So God wouldn't have let Satan rule it.

While I agree that Satan will be destroyed rather than thrown into a hell to burn..

I still can't wrap my mind around the punishment of Satan to be here on earth... If any part of Job is to be true....

Does Satan love tormenting people? Or God?

Is it joy or jealousy?

crazyhayashi-
Interesting analogy! I like it!!
I agree with pretty much everything you said.

But... please explain this further:


I've never heard that Satan had dominion over the earth before he fell. Where did you find that in scripture? I'm interested in studying that one more!

Only one place I disagree slightly-

I'm probably misunderstanding you but this makes it sound like God chooses whom he will resurect almost whimsically. We will all die the first death, yes, (unless we are alive when he returns!! ) but the decision as to whether we will suffer the second death is ours alone. Once we are in the grave, there will be no one changing minds. The question as to whether one is saved or not will be finalized upon their death- - either they are, or they're not. No mind changing at this point in the game.

I really love reading your thoughts- you have a great way of expressing yourself!

I look forward to reading more of what you have to say.

AppyGroove-
Satan loves tormenting people, especially God's people, because of anger, jealousy, conceit, arrogance, and a host of other things I would suppose. I think it makes him feel powerful. And I do think he gains joy/pleasure from tormenting God's children. Afterall, he hates us! One dayWe will have what he will never have again- heaven, etc. And we choose the opposing side, not his, so yes, I think he gets great joy out of torturing us.

And God allows this though I think he sheds tears and feels pain we can't imagine at one of his children being hurt.

But isn't that the true test of love? Unfortunately, in this supernatural war the only true way to determine utmost allegiance is in how one behaves when the chips are down. It's true love when you love through the good times AND bad.

Kind of along the lines of that saying about having tons of friends when all's well but you learn who your real friends are when the going gets tough.

I'll re-explain my analogy. (I wasn't speaking about the reasons why God might choose to resurrect someone, it honestly didn't cross my mind while I was typing)-

If the file's good and important and helped you, then you would bring it back, you wouldn't want to completely delete it. Same with resurrection-if your works were good and helpful, God will bring you back.


About the whole Satan thing...after Jesus had fasted forty days, Satan offered Him the whole world to reign over (kinda dumb considering Jesus is God, but I don't think the Devil believes that He is, hence the bribe). Satan had rule over the world and he offered it to Jesus.

Awesome!

My take on satan offering Jesus the world is that it wasn't his to offer. Not really. See, I think that, yes, technically at that time Satan ruled the world. The original plan was that Adam and Eve would do that right under Jesus but when Eve took trhe apple she inadvertantly transfered reign to Satan in choosing his authority over God's authority.

However, when Jesus died on the cross he took control back. Satan is still allowed to roam and influence the world for a short time but Jesus will ultimately come and take sole control back. He didn't need Satan to offer him anything-- he knew he would soon take the world from satan anyway.

For example, just because there are factions trying to usurp control of Jerusaleem and Israel and those that whole-heartedly believe Jerusalem is rightfullytheirs, it is not. They are "allowed"to wreak havoc on her citizens but the day will come when they will be ousted permanently.

I understan where you are coming from though. I never thought of it that way. I'm not convinced though....

I'm not sure myself about the Devil ruling the world...I just think that God wouldn't have let Satan have so much power over the world if Satan wasn't intended to have it in the first place. God wouldn't have given Lucifer so much power over the earth unless he already had the power before he rebelled...the power doesn't legally belong to him now but maybe before he rebelled it did.

God still owns the earth though, and even 666 sextillion Satan's couldn't change that!


(Shivers) That would be scary though...666,000,000,000,000,000 Satans...