This is an excerpt from another thread that brought up the topic of fathers and their roles in the family; The decline of family order and revival.


The restoration of the father as the spiritual leader within the family role is VITAL for revival of any sort:


The fathers MUST change with regard to the state of their children. They must begin active intervention for the spiritual well-being of their children/families. Men were created differently for a reason....the fathers must deal in truth with their children again, and raise them up in a godly fashion with the WORD as the foundation. The fathers must begin to care about the moral condition of their daughters again....and raise up standards of purity. If the fathers set standards in regard to women, then the sons will do likewise with regard to women. The standards have been lost. The fathers need to rebuke the daughters, (in love), with regard to their purity, so that the daughters feel valued again. (Why are there so many living together out of wedlock?) Because fathers have not demanded that their daughters be treated as worthy of marriage. Why are daddies not confronting the guys who are coming and defiling their daughters by not valuing them enough to marry them? Why are dad's silent? And Christian fathers???

Again, where is the TRUTH in these matters?


Malachi 4:6 He will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers; or else I will come and strike the land with a curse."


Luke 1:17 And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous--to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."


We are NOT a people "prepared" for the Lord. We can look at the condtion of our children to see this. We have gotten so disengaged, that we now "kill" our own babies. THAT'S how "unprepared" we are.


In His Love,
Suzanne

Hi Suzanne,
You make some very good points in this topic. I'd like to add some thoughts to this process of restoring the hearts of the children to their fathers. AMEN....YES, this is THE vital pre-requisite to revival...it MUST start with the basic family unit! AMEN!

WHY oh WHY is there such a rampant gender-bender crisis going on in our nation? Clearly, God has made each gender, unique, NOT equal. Similar? Yes; equal...no.

Who passes on the authoritative, identifying, spiritual imprint to children? A mother alone cannot accomplish this fete. A father MUST be present in order for a child to correctly IDENTIFY their role. This process of identification starts early. As a young female child witnesses the interaction between her and her father, she identifies herself by his interactions with her. The same is true for young boys. I do not exclude mothers from this process of course, but the father-figure is the vital component, SPIRITUALLY speaking.

People truthfully do not grasp just how deeply this upbringing (or lack thereof) has upon a relationship with GOD. How many of us have been raised in broken homes where our fathers were lacking? You see, our earthly father should have already provided us a tangible image of fatherhood...and without that, it becomes that much more difficult for a person to identify themselves with GOD! Why? Because GOD is our FATHER. Our entire relationship with God revolves AROUND this single FACT...HE IS OUR HEAVENLY FATHER. Of a truth, I believe the broken home is more than likely the single-most reason that so many of our generation has forsaken God and accepted atheism.

Paul said it like this....(my paraphrase), it is the visible things which speak of the invisible (or point to the invisible). This is our foundation...and it is found in our fathers. A deep, rewarding and intimate relationship with our Heavenly Father will not be accomplished without healing and restoration of our earthly fathers, FIRST. We simply cannot grasp what our Heavenly Father is TRULY like without a proper, godly, physical father FIRST.

And this is WHY those hearts MUST be restored, must be mended and healed in order for a genuine revival to flourish. Those who have experienced the loving trust of a godly father are truly blessed, and have an advantage because they have already become intimately acquainted with the weightiest part of Father God's heart. I pray we all come to this knowledge of the truth. It's something I have struggled with due to my lack of a father growing up...but my God has been healing me, slowly but surely, thank God!

...(there is more I will add to this theme of identification and why it is affecting society's ability to identify with their gender at large)

God bless you all,
Kim

Wonderful contribution Kim! I absolutely agree. I also commend you for (I'm making assumptions here), being the probable cycle-breaker of your family. I have observed patterns within my family that the Lord revealed as "cycles" that needed to be broken with regard to "right" order within my family. I began as one who thought I (as a woman) would not be under any man's leadership, because we were of course "equal". I now know due to our Lord's wondrous grace, that I was so very wrong in my thinking of what a family really is made up of. I and my husband are both equally submitted to our Lord God, but very adamantly recognize that He desires a very clear order and role within the family and my husband is to be the "leader". I have now found that this indeed is a very blessed thing for me as a wife. It is a great thing to be able to see the places where God calls us to be cycle-breakers and do things HIS way, rather than what we were learning from family patterns.


I do hope that the men/fathers of this forum would come forward to add their necessary input to this topic. And I also look forward to reading more that you post with regard to it.

In His Love,
Suzanne

Why do I get the feeling that men don't feel real confident in this area?


In His Love,
Suzanne

Maybe you should have put "rapture"/ "theological"/"Conspiracy"/"Pope" in the thread title to tempt some of them in here
They all show up for a good endtimes thread.

Gee, I guess I should have!


I'm still holdin out hope that they'll show up and comment. Otherwise, this thread will be sadly "telling".


In His Love,
Suzanne

Amen Suzanne!

The church begins in the household of a dedicated family in the Lord who open their home for the needs of the saints. Spiritual influence in the world begins when men become the spiritual heads of their homes, each doing their part. Community begins when these households of faith join together to break bread in honour of Christ, and pray and seek the Lord for the fallen world around them. The coming together of these Christ-centered families is the church.

This is the simplicity of the church in action. Christianity is not a Sunday religion. It begins in the heart and not in a building. We may think we are the church and play at being the church while giving over authority to religious hirelings for supervision according to various rules of play, or we may know we are the church and act like it. All believers must take personal responsibility to be a light in this world. All men must respond to the call to be both under authority in Christ and in authority in Christ. Our fellowship is in the Spirit and truth....not in a religious way.

<><

John

Dear John,

I so appreciate your input in regard to this issue. I am inclined to feel concern for today's man, because I think he has lost his way with regard to his role, due to the overbearing women's movements that have conditioned him to believe that his role is not needed anymore. I think this is a lie that the devil succeeded in deceiving this society with. So, now instead of women feeling the equality that was asked for, they instead are now overburdened because they are being the breadwinners as well as feeling the guilt of not being there for the children, or worse yet, have lost their identity with regard to their role as nurture/caretaker of their own children.

When my husband issues the call for men to examine themselves and realize that they need to abandon childishness and the need to relive their younger days, and instead of the Harley, tattoos, mamma takes the paycheck, pays the bills, puts her foot down with regard to buying more toys, but rather will rise up and begin to see that they should become the mature godly man who recognizes the things that are necessary and needed for the family, rather than only seeing what "he" wants. It is surprising how many women will be in agreement NOW and desire the husband who genuinely cares enough to lead. I think women are realizing that they have wished for something that they now realize they don't want. I think they are missing the role they were created for as well. Maybe I'm making assumptions, but I hear it often in our Sunday services, that the women want "grown/mature" men today rather than "boys" who need mammas rather than wives.

Guys, believe it or not, you really do have a very important role to fill, in spite of what media portrays.


IN His Love,
Suzanne

John says; What?

I think we should go back to the idea that women in many cases are the cycle breaker. The church is where ever the Lord resides..any single heart.
Male or Female...Sure there is an order but that doesn't mean God can't work with a donkey.

John, just because people go to church on Sunday and actually enjoy themselves in the Lord is no reason to accuse them as being Sunday Christians..
I'm a Christian everyday of the week..going to church doesn't disqualify me.

You are full of bitter vile.

I don't think l'm the church... l know l'm the church...I don't play games and l respect the authority of my Pastor...but he isn't a tyrant nor some kind of a "hireling" as you mockingly try to indicate. You do this on every string you go to and l'm not going to let it ride but declare the truth on your coat tails.

Susanne...Our church has been building men up as the head for some years now with much success. I'm sorry all don't have a good church like this. People like John hinder the success of church by negativism and an unwillingness to wait on the Lord on behalf of Pastors.

This wasn't really about the church, but frankly with regard to holding the fathers accountable and encouraging them, your church must be one of the exceptions, because I don't see it happening in the church much either. In fact, today's church and gospel has been feminized to the point that it has helped to hinder the role of men. Men were supposed to be "leading" inside the church as well...but this instruction has been ignored and the women are running the church as well as the home. It's not working and the disorder and confusion is evident. I say give men back the voice of absolutes that they were created with, and let them be the men who are not afraid to discipline their children and rebuke again. Let's quit working out of emotions and start working within the guidelines of the Word. (Let's start with 1 Cor. 5.)

In His Love,
Suzanne

........

Don't be fooled Suzanne...there are a lot of good churches out there.

There are other good churches in my town that l know personally about who do the same.

The men run the show not the women. Women are respected and testify to what God is doing in their lives and homes and are often the foundation for the man to take headship..oh well..least they are getting on board.

I'm not saying it's perfect. We weigh heavily on the men's side...but l've grown up with the male mentality and am no stranger to this ideology. Only Christ truly respects me for who he made me to be. He's my friend and is happy with his creation as it comes into alignment with his will.

Dear Miki,

Any ideas as to why the men here are not posting on this topic, if the church is doing such a good job? (Excluding John, of course)


In His Love,
Suzanne

http://www.lavistachurchofchrist.org/Pictu...es/scan0025.jpg



Numbers 22:28

"Then the Lord opened the donkey's mouth, and she said to Balaam, 'What have I
done to you to make you beat me these three times' ?



The Donkey & Balaam (75) : Running Sore (442), Balaam, the son of Bosor (442) : ulcer (442)
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...t=0&start=0







(quote, Miki, Post #9)
Male or Female...Sure there is an order but that doesn't mean God can't work with a donkey.

The point is...........it would be more righteous for the intended to be................willing to do the job called to, rather than having to use a donkey.
It doesn't say much for the intended, does it?

In His Love,
Suzanne

Suzanne :


You know I am right with you.


The Daughter's being united with anointed men, the infidel/reprobate and the
stories in between.


What I am seeing is, that the donkey in the story of Balaam, is like a running sore,
until it drains and releases its poison, the person with the sore cannot get well.


To me, a lack of masculine leadership is a sickness, like a running sore.

Thanks for clarifying crown. I'm sorry I don't always receive the visuals, but I know that it speaks to others.
Yes, I do remember that we were in agreement with regard to this issue. I know that you feel as strongly about it as I do.


God bless you.


GODLY MEN, WHERE ARE YOU????
Please share your thoughts on this and encourage others in the process!

In His Love,
Suzanne

And Jehovah said, Shall I hide from Abraham that which I do; 18 seeing that Abraham had surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him? 19 For I have known him, to the end that he may command his children and his household after him, that they may keep the way of Jehovah, to do righteousness and justice; to the end that Jehovah may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

sometimes I feel like I was called to be saved because I will teach my children and thus raise a household of sharp arrows for the Lord to shine through in the darkest of times
I'm encumbered by this old man who tries to deny the cross and depend on the arm of the flesh
were there fathers in the body. . .alas God is going to shepherd His flock
the professionals are kaput
still in my simple way I give the basics to these babes that God has given us
fellowship is limited
thankfully where two or more are assembled in His name
He is amongst us
Saints, please pray for me God's will for this season ahead
You are blessed to be a blessing
I don't want to be a reproach to the Lord
I am hopeful that me and mine can be of service to our bros and sis's in the Lord
the weakest among us are candidates for God to show Himself strong
these children will be equipped

Dear Way,

That is a wonderful post of encouragement! The verses were so special, they are the ones I often think of when I think of my husband and our children and what is yet to be. THIS should be the essence of fatherhood.........the preparation of the children he is given, to bring glory and honor to our God and Savior!


I will be praying for ALL the fathers on this forum to rise up and lead their families.


In His Love,
Suzanne

My hope for this thread is to remedy that!


May there be godly fathers who will unite here and support one another and bring new ones into fellowship discussions.



In His Love,
Suzanne

I strongly suspect that many churches don't encourage the people to use their giftings and function as the body of Christ. There's a status quo and if you don't seem to tow the line then you miss out. So all the men who have leadership abilities but who don't please the pastor and establishment gradually lose interest. This goes for women too. Of course there are good churches and I am not meaning to tar them with the same brush.
DH doesn't come on here much but he lays his life down for the kids and myself. He is servant hearted and a Godly man, but I have seen him struggle with leadership.
I don't know why there are power struggles sometimes. I don't think the issue is with women taking on the men's work. I think the issues are deeper than that and the enemy is having a field day dividing one against the other. I think the issue is probably more to do with controlling pastors who perhaps aren't spirit led and so are trying to do everything in their own strength and not allowing men to grow and use their talents. Sometimes we are led to step outside the box but oftentimes the structures in churches are inflexible.
I think these power struggles and the inflexibity dispowers men. They are often working long hours, providing for the family, but when they have young families it's harder to fellowship... so they are further discouraged and unsupported. I'm at home with our youngest and I occasionally meet up with other mums, but it is so hard for DH to do this. As a society we don't put much value on community, so I guess many men are just limping along and trying to do the best they can. Plus media portrayals of men are so negative!
The church we have just left did these motivational weekends, once a year for men... hyped them up.... sent them off.... its a joke!

I do agree with you shine, as we saw this happen in our congregation. The pastor would speak of the men being godly leaders, but then when they got to asking too many questions about things they read in the Scriptures that weren't being adhered to in the church, then it became difficult and the pastor would discourage. I too believe it was a pride issue and power struggle. When the pastor felt the status quo is threatened then the shaking starts. We noticed that he had a cult-like (for lack of a better term) following of older widowed/divorced women who were his main-stay. The men were token leaders(deacons) who really didn't have a say, but rather were "yes" men who would never question anything. This as you stated above was not "spirit-led" gifted men leading in holiness, but rather "man-pleasers" who didn't dare rock the boat. It was a terrible tragedy.


In His Love,
Suzanne

I was blessed by the presentations, since I went to bed, wow ! what wisdom !
The truth, is as you anointed daughter's have well stated. I just placed this :


Post#25
~And God Provided Pastors, The Purpose of The Pastor~
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...24&start=24

After reading the passage that Way posted in regard to Abraham and his role of father, I was thinking of others in the Scriptures who were called to lead. This verse came to mind:


JOSHUA:

24:15 And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."



In His Love,
Suzanne

tsth,
Thanks for your encouragement...it means alot. =)

I offer the following account as a word of caution. (no accusation towards anyone in this thread, sincerely)...
I became friends with a christian family shortly after becoming born again. They were a nice lot, hospitable and humble....but there was something that always bothered me and it was the way the wife would talk about her husband. She would complain to me quite a bit about her husband not stepping up to the leadership role in the family. In her mind, her husband should have been showing initiative to attend several church services throughout the week, or initiate prayer times more often or working through the gifts of the Spirit which she did. But over time I recognized that this man worked hard throughout the week and sincerely needed peace. He had a joyful, peaceful presence about him but this was being slowly but surely robbed by a contentious wife. And what is truthfully the saddest part of this story is the fact that the very thing she was complaining for was right before her eyes. He was fulfilling his leadership role, but she was not accepting or believing that he was...and instead found fault with him. Genuine submission to his leadership needed to start with her own heart. True submission is not by force, and neither is true leadership by force....ie- God doesn't call one spouse to force another into their respective role. Each must be willing to submit to God's order of authority, ...for this is LOVE.

(I wanted to add some more thought to my first posting in this thread)....

God is Spirit, and He seeks those who worship Him in Spirit and in truth. Of a truth, we cannot approach God without receiving the truth concerning Him (that He is our heavenly Father...and as such, our Father has authority over every aspect of our lives, even those parts we do not desire to submit to Him). We cannot approach Him truthfull without acknowledging our respective roles towards Him AND towards our family. Our society has denigrated the need for authority, but so many people are LONGINGLY searching for it (even though they do not recognize it). This is a heart need. For Godly authority is an expression of love.

Consider if you will, go back to your teenage years and remember the interactions that commonly would take place between girls and boys. Each were seeking to identify themselves according to their given gender and in the process of this, you commonly would see girls attempting to arm wrestle with boys. The girl may *appear* to want to beat the boy, but deep down inside, she prefers to lose against him. And of course, both boy and girl have their (gender) identities AFFIRMED through this process. This is the most basic example of a spiritual principle that God desires for us as christians to follow. It is the interplay of love through SPIRITUAL submission and authority which stokes the fires of love! How many women envied Scarlett as Rhett forced her up the stairs? (Of course, this is the CARNAL example)...but we can *play* the spiritual role. My marriage has deepened GREATLY through this vital understanding which had been lost through several generations of my family line.

As a wild olive, my ways were contrary to these ancient ways...but this is where God is calling us to...for He is THE ANCIENT OF DAYS....an ANCIENT God who calls us to the ANCIENT paths of righteousness. Godly submission/authority IS the ancient path of righteousness. LOOK to Abraham the rock from which we were hewn and Sarah our mother who bore us in pain. (LOOK at their Godly example of marriage dear ones....LOOK).

These ancient treasures have been cast to the wayside. So many people do not recognize the deep loss that has occurred during the past several generations. It's like being robbed but having no clue that you owned what you were robbed of to begin with! May we all walk in the truth with love.

God bless you all,
Kim

Absolutely agree Kim! The whole topic/issue itself requires much needed self-examination and generational examination. (2 Cor. 13:5) We must look at what is really taking place within our families and be willing to be honest about it. Sometimes, if we are willing to look, we can also see as mentioned earlier, a history of things being "out-of-order".


Wonderful post.


In His Love,
Suzanne

Thanks (I keep on calling you "tsth", I should say "Suzanne", lol......what does "tsth" stand for anyway? hehehe).

I pray that many are simply DRAWN to this thread you started...these are vital issues which are too oft overlooked.

"tsth" is ok, it's quicker to type!




In His Love,
Suzanne/tsth

"tsth" it is then!

btw,
my best childhood friend was a "Suzy-Q"

The point is...If men won't do their job God has no problem with working through women. The Jews didn't come to dinner so he invited the gentiles instead..

Leah has a job to do and does it well but God has reserved the strongest runners for last...He is using this situation as he has recently showed me in a string under prophecy..don't know where it is now..

Let me add a little insight to what shine and Suzanne said.

Friends... We don't have to buck and challenge the Pastor when he's wrong. All we have to do is live according to the Spirit...Love him...and God will do the rest. Are you walking in the Spirit of love? I can promise you that most Pastors want to see the manifest presence of God in their church but have seen the bad burning going on through out the church body as a whole and are wanting no part of it and l don't blame them.

If you're going to walk int the Spirit according to your giftings to bring the supernatural of God alive in your church then you have to be willing to lose everything. If you aren't willing to love and submit God will never use you in this. The Spirit comes in quietly and nudges your Pastors heart in these things. He will watch for a long time..Are you drawing attention to yourself with just wanting to be heard or are your gifts so evident they can't be denied.

What about your fruit? What about your family? You don't have to crush the Pastor with your opinions...He's heard so many he probably quit listening.
Are their stubborn hard headed men running some churches? Sure...but not as many as some would have you think on this forum. If you walk in your gifting and God confirms with the witness of the scripture and signs following God will do the rest. It's not up to you to do anything but walk in humility and love..patiently waiting on the Lord...Are you willing to wait 10 years? This is the testing l'm talking about. Love is long suffering and when good Pastors become overwhelmed by the rush of voices ideas and ideologies.. Give them a break and be a friend instead of another clanging voice.

Good Morning, +Shine+ :


( noticed you deleted the ' 4 ' in between the name )



Very good observation, I was posting the following just this morning . . .



Post#25
~And God Provided Pastors, The Purpose of The Pastor~
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...24&start=24

Thank you, John P. & Michael :


The beginning of the month of November, the Lord dealt with me about Jeremiah.


And below I have posted the excerpts to blend, with this topic :
~And God Provided Pastors, The Purpose of The Pastor~


THE SUMMARY I WAS GRANTED IS :

Cast out the broken cisterns that cannot hold water, seek the rebirth
of your first love, Jesus Christ our Messiah, bridegroom.


And I think John P. had a great answer :

..... it looks to me like Jeremiah is reminding the Lord that Jeremiah has been a faithful servant
and has cared about the welfare of the people that God ordained/sent Jeremiah to speak to/warn.


And Michael, such truth in these words :


Obviously Jeremiah did not ask to become a prophet, or pastor, or leader, but God knew he would not decline the vocation and ordained him so to be. There is a strong sense of God's calling in Jeremiah which he does not deny, even though it seems to bring him nothing but heartache and trouble...and isn't it often the same for those who move in a similar spiritual gifting today?


I end my thought, sharing the message (Jeremiah 17) by
reposting the verse:

16As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day; thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right before thee.



Pray, we all know as Adullam expressed, this message :

Even in the Jewish system, the more sacred things were done in secret...before a living God.





Nov 2 2008, 07:32 PM
Jeremiah Roped Down Into Muddy Cistern [parallel's], Joshua’s spies roped down Rahab’s wall
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...t=0&start=0

The Water :

Jeremiah 2:13

My people have committed two sins :

() They have forsaken me,
the spring of living waters,

() . . . and have dug their own cisterns,
broken cisterns that cannot hold water.


We read clearly that IHVH is described, as :

THE SPRING OF LIVING WATERS


Note:

Just as the water brakes, to allow the womb to give forth the life of
the child, bring forth the knowledge of `the spring of living waters`, for eternal life.

Do not forsake the spring of living waters [IHVH].

Cast out the broken cisterns that cannot hold water, seek the rebirth
of your first love, Jesus Christ our Messiah, bridegroom.

Unwanted Visitor

A man, down on his luck, went into a church which catered to the "uppity". Spotting the man's dirty clothes a deacon, worried about the churches image, went to the man and asked him if he needed help. The man said, "I was praying and the Lord told me to come to this church."

The deacon suggested that the man go pray some more and possibly he might get a different answer. The next Sunday the man returned. The deacon asked, "Did you get a different answer?"

The man replied, "Yes I did. I told the Lord that they don't want me in that church and the Lord said, 'Don't worry about it son; I've been trying to get into that church for years and haven't made it yet."

hi~

lol, i like that ~ very good.
thank you much for sharing, crownsevenalphabet.

~levite-7

(smile)


I found this under `dreams`, seems to match this thread . . . or at least the direction
of its theme :



Trapped In A Church
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...=21442&st=0

I still would hope that the guys would post here about "being" a godly father, or "wanting to be" a godly father/leader of their home.


Any guys care to post?


In His Love,
Suzanne

Well, guys, at least tell us why you are not posting on the topic....are you angry?


In His Love,
Suzanne

Suzanne :

This is going to shock you, the Lord has opened this to me, and I must post this . . .

1 Timothy 4:1


King James Bible
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;


http://www.christcenteredmall.com/teachings/evil-spirits.htm

The Bible has many names for these spirits:


Deaf and dumb spirit (Mark 9:17-29)


Evil spirit (Luke 7:21; Acts 19:12-13)


Familiar spirit (I Samuel 28:7)


Foul spirit (Mark 9:25)


Lying spirit (II Chronicles 18:20-22)


Perverse spirit (Isaiah 19:14; Romans 1:17-32)


Seducing spirit (I Timothy 4:1)


Spirit of an unclean devil (Luke 4:33)


Spirit of antichrist (I John 4:3)


Spirit of bondage (Romans 8:15)


Spirit of death (I Corinthians 10:10, 15:26)


Spirit of divination (Acts 16:16)


Spirit of error (I John 4:6)


Spirit of fear (II Timothy 1:7)


Spirit of haughtiness (Proverbs 16:18-19)


Spirit of heaviness (Isaiah 61:3)


Spirit of infirmity (Luke 13:11-13)


Spirit of jealousy (Genesis 4:5-8; Numbers 5:14)


Spirit of slumber (Isaiah 29:10, Romans 11:8)


Spirit of the world (I Corinthians 2:12)


Spirit of whoredoms (Hosea 4:12, 5:4)


Unclean spirit (Mark 6:7; Luke 11:24-26)



The following, is why the saved ( unsanctified Christian man, leaves the door open for seducing
spirits ) :


An evil spirit can be cast out of a person through the name of Jesus and by the power of the Holy Spirit. When an evil spirit leaves a person, it is extremely important that the void within them is filled with the Holy Spirit, lest the evil spirit return and bring with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself (Luke 11:24-26).



The Leadership of the masculine, in THE CHURCH, is under porno-grip-of-harlots-internet and
other private practices that are not leaving the MAN who is saved in name of Jesus, the
lack of being filled with the Holy Ghost, has caused the evil spirit to return and bring with it
7 other spirits more wicked than itself.

...good one C7A...thanks!

I am sooo angry...no not really, just kidding.



It's not politically correct for a man to be a strong, authoritative figure.

I believe that the Godly man should be the leader of the family. He should be the protector of the family, physically and spiritually. I believe that the wife and children should submit themselves to the will of the Father and the man should submit himself to the will of the Father. The husband should also wash the feet of the wife in love, just as Christ did to his disciples.

Dear Adonaicole,

I'm curious, Adonaicole, do you have a resource/friends/church where you are able to discuss the issues of godly men being leaders?


I mean do you have any conversations with anyone regarding this?


In His Love,
Suzanne

Dear c7,

I agree with you about the spirits. We need to be filled with the Holy Spirit, truth, love, light, so there is no room at the inn for the bad spirits.



Sadly, this is not limited to men, as women are under siege by these same spirits as well.

Well, that figures......now that there's some activity, I gotta go.


Oh well, I guess I'll just have to check back later.


In His Love,
Suzanne

For the women/wives assisting the Fathers of the family....



(NKJV) 1 Peter 3:1 Wives, likewise, be submissive to your own husbands, that even if some do not obey the word, they, without a word, may be won by the conduct of their wives, 2 when they observe your chaste conduct accompanied by fear. 3 Do not let your adornment be merely outward -- arranging the hair, wearing gold, or putting on fine apparel -- 4 rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God. 5 For in this manner, in former times, the holy women who trusted in God also adorned themselves, being submissive to their own husbands, 6 as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, whose daughters you are if you do good and are not afraid with any terror. 7 Husbands, likewise, dwell with them with understanding, giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life, that your prayers may not be hindered. 8 Finally, all of you be of one mind, having compassion for one another; love as brothers, be tenderhearted, be courteous; 9 not returning evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary blessing, knowing that you were called to this, that you may inherit a blessing.

Dear Suzanne,

Doesn't everyone already believe this? I'm not sure what needs to be discussed.

First, I will say that the family is the result not the cause. The father is not the father because of a role. The father is a father because of the Father of all. Each cell of the body is a representative of the whole body. The Father's presence causes revival; it cannot be any other way. But, what causes the Father to be absent is the attitude of the children, not the father. But, it is the father's responsibility to raise the children in the fear of the Lord.




First, I will say that the family is the result not the cause. The father is not the father because of a role. The father is a father because of the Father of all. Each cell of the body is a representative of the whole body. The Father's presence causes revival; it cannot be any other way. But, what causes the Father to be absent is the attitude of the children, not the father. But, it is the father's responsibility to raise the children in the fear of the Lord.

How 'bout that! Double post within a post! That's neat!

umm....just a little reminder gregg, the scripture is actually addressing both fathers and children.

"Turning the hearts of the fathers to the children and the children to the fathers" (or vice versa...but both are addressed) (my paraphrase).

God bless you...Kim

I agree with this post to some extent except where it likens porno addiction to demon possession. That is taking it a bit far. Demon possession is quite rare and most who are possessed are locked away in asylums where they cannot view porno. Porno as with all sins is definitely encouraged by vile spirits as you suggest and these sins weaken the moral fabric of the church but if we take that reasoning to the extent that you have we end up with the entire clergy and the entire church possessed by devils for some sin or another which is clearly not the case.

We are all tempted to do sinful things and sometimes we succumb to this temptation and actually sin, this does not however make us devil worshippers or devil possessed.

Also this post unfairly singles out males and the leaders of the church. This is a slur against the clergy who although they too are sinners there is no evidence that their sins are any worse than the sins of the laity or women.

However you are correct in pointing out the importance that the clergy remains pure and chaste. However let the bishops tell the clergy to be chaste and pure. Who do we think we are to instruct our leaders and suggest that they are demon possessed? Are we prophets called out by God to chasten the ministry? Let us not think too highly of ourselves but rather give honour to those in charge over us for the glory of God.

The other thing on this subject I would like to point out is the appalling neglect of our government which allows this incredible stream of filth on the Internet. Never has such vile material every been so freely accessible in the history of the world. In times past you would have to go to the most debauched corner of the largest city in the land to find such material and yet today it is beamed into our homes where our children may view it. What hope is there for our youth? I have an excellent filter at home called K9 which is free and should be installed on every computer. The government should put this on all the major links and clean up the Internet. This software works on computers but there is currently no filters for mobile devices like PDA's and smart phones. If you have children under no circumstances should you allow them to have access to the Internet on their phones.

We found with ancient Rome that it became completely corrupted with sexual immorality and it resulted in the collapse of one of the mightiest empires the world has ever seen. Grieve for our nations because we have become a stench in the nostrils of the nations of the world. God will give us over to their armies for correction if we do not clean up our act. And it just has to start with the church. The church needs to purify herself and then with moral righteousness and courage instruct our nation to abandon their sin. It is because so many Christians are engaging in these immoral deeds that the church has no integrity or conviction to speak out against these practices. This is what it means when Jesus says. "Ye are the salt of the world. If salt loses its saltiness then what is it good for except to be trod out over the streets"

And this is what we see today. An appallingly inneffective church which has lost its saltiness and become almost worthless in the world. We should be the light of the world and yet it would seem that we are barely a flickering candle. Therefore God will bring judgement upon the house of God first. The world will overwhelm the church and tread it into the road and then the world will overwhelm our Christian nations and so the world will plunge into unspeakable darkness. In those days, a priest or a pastor will be like fine gold. I anticipate that a new dark ages is approaching where idolatry old pagan style is practiced with Christians horribly subjugated as they were in the first century. I feel convinced that this paganism will be instituted when an image of the beast is placed in all places of worship and all religions and nations will be forced to worship it.

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord: 12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.

If we purify ourselves and our churches this terrible situation may be avoided or delayed. But my fear is that this will not happen and we will all descend into darkness; so let each of us trim our own lamps and make sure we have plenty of holy oil for our lamps to take us through the dead of night into the glorious day of our Lord's appearing.

Dear Adonaicole,

No, not everyone does believe it, that's why it's a difficult thing to even get guys here to talk about....much less in the secular world. That's why I was asking the question, because I was curious if you are able to express your views on it? Do you talk about it? Because we have a great void in regard to men and their leadership role. It's not discussed and we have a generation of guys who do not understand the obligation they have to step up to the role. I'm afraid that they will end up standing before God and having to answer the question "How did you care for your family, spiritually"?

Don't know that for sure, but just in case, I feel as though the older men who do know, should be mentoring the men around them.


(I believe you were the one who said it was "politically incorrect" to be of this mindset, weren't you? I know you were teasing, but you and I both know that you weren't entirely joking.)


In His Love,
Suzanne

So, I would guess that folowing the scriptures would be the right thing to do, then?

I'm not crushing my former pastor Miki. I believe God moved us from that church because he has other plans for my family.... God has been gifting us and in the Australian Baptist churches (there may be exceptions), the Holy Spirit is not particularly welcomed. I feel that a new chapter is beginning with our new church and I do actually feel sadness in leaving the folks at the old church. In our Baptist church in England, the HS was welcomed and we had a wonderful, spirit filled pastor.
I was basing my conclusions on things I have seen over the years and not just in regard to the church I have left.
My family I believe will do much better in a church where God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are worshipped and welcomed. We have seen my DS (who is 6) go from spending his time kicking his siblings in church (embarrasing lol) to getting into worship and giving his heart to the Lord in the 2nd service we were there.
While the family is the place where we expect most of the ways of God to be taught, we needed to be sure that our children are taught about God in a church which is Spirit filled, and not just go through the motions in a legalistic environment... where it seems that a large number of teens and young adult are living life on the fence and getting into things they shouldn't.
The church we have just left was also a very rich church and the wealthy weren't particularly sociable so that was also an issue. We probably stuck it out for 3 years (since thinking about leaving), which is a long time when you are migrants without any other support networks. I'm not even sure why I am on here trying to justify myself.... sorry Suzanne for digressing... to be honest I have had enough of a stiffling church and there comes a point in which you decide to move on and I am glad that the Lord has confirmed this for us.