8Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
Jesus without doubt was claiming Deity for Himself and that He is assuredly God, in other words, seeing him, was Just like seeing the Father who also is God..
Lets look at other scriptures to verify this.
You recall in the OT that many times its recorded that men seen God after having seen or talked to an angel ? For instance gen 32:
30And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
Lets look at the events that led to this confession of Jacob:
24And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
25And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
26And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
27And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
28And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
29And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. 30And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
This situation was occasioned by the stress of mind jacob was in as he contemplated a visit from his brother easu whom he had defrauded out of the birthright years earlier..
as a result of this and in answer to his prayer :
9And Jacob said, O God of my father Abraham, and God of my father Isaac, the LORD which saidst unto me, Return unto thy country, and to thy kindred, and I will deal well with thee:
10I am not worthy of the least of all the mercies, and of all the truth, which thou hast shewed unto thy servant; for with my staff I passed over this Jordan; and now I am become two bands.
11Deliver me, I pray thee, from the hand of my brother, from the hand of Esau: for I fear him, lest he will come and smite me, and the mother with the children. 12And thou saidst, I will surely do thee good, and make thy seed as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude.
God as an angel[ man], came to Jacob and wrestled with him..Now the genesis account has it as a man but else where he is designated an angel:
hosea 12:
2The LORD hath also a controversy with Judah, and will punish Jacob according to his ways; according to his doings will he recompense him.
3He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by his strength he had power with God: 4Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Bethel, and there he spake with us;
and so at the conclusion of this prevailing over the man or angel..you see an angel is Just another way of saying messenger. And The Holy Ghost inspires Jacob to say and moses to write this:
30And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
Now was jacob delusional ? Did he make a mistake in his Judgement ? No..What Jacob saw was Jesus christ in an Old Test appearance as the Angel of The Lord..in this regard, Jacob had seen God..
No man has seen the Father at anytime, but Jesus christ makes him known:
jn 1:
18No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Scripture doesnt say , No man hath seen the Son at anytime ! Because that would be inaccurate, and because men had seen the Son many times as an Angel of the Lord, but because this Angel was The Son of God, it could be stated without apology that Having seen this Angel of the Lord, this man, one had seen God..
Lets look at ex 24:
10And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
The word for saw is the hebrew word:
Ra'ah:
- to appear, present oneself
- to be seen
- to be visible
By the reference of Him having feet, no doubt He had a bodily form or shape as a man or an angel who appeared as men..
Oft time its said of a man of God, like abrham, the Lord appeared to him:
gen 12:
7And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.
17:
1And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
The hebrew would read in such instances, The Lord was seen..
judges 13:
22And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God..The same word as saw before we have looked at..
So what led up to this confession of manoah, sampsons father ?
1And the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD delivered them into the hand of the Philistines forty years.
2And there was a certain man of Zorah, of the family of the Danites, whose name was Manoah; and his wife was barren, and bare not. 3And the angel of the LORD appeared unto the woman, and said unto her, Behold now, thou art barren, and bearest not: but thou shalt conceive, and bear a son.
Notice it says the Angel of the LORD appeared unto the women ! and He told her some things:
That she would bear a son and he would be a nazarite and that he would begin to deliver the people from the philistines, and she excitedly went to tell her husband.
6Then the woman came and told her husband, saying, A man of God came unto me, and his countenance was like the countenance of an angel of God, very terrible: but I asked him not whence he was, neither told he me his name:
She describing this person who spoke to her said he had a countance as an angel of God..I believe she saw this countance matt 17:
1And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 2And was transfigured before them: and his face[countenance] did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light
and remember how the angel looked in Jesus empty tomb ? matt 28:
1In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
2And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. 3His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow
So manoahs wife is describing this heavenly messenger she spoke to..he had a glistening appearance, but we know from the previous verse, it was the Angel of The LORD..
Then the husband manoah prayed for confirmation of this what his wife told him:
8Then Manoah intreated the LORD, and said, O my Lord, let the man of God which thou didst send come again unto us, and teach us what we shall do unto the child that shall be born.
And God graciously answered this Intreaty.:
9And God hearkened to the voice of Manoah; and the angel of God came again unto the woman as she sat in the field: but Manoah her husband was not with her.
Now this same Angel of the LORD, now Angel of God[elohim] came back.
Now having gone and retrieved her husband, manoah asked the man a question:
11And Manoah arose, and went after his wife, and came to the man, and said unto him, Art thou the man that spakest unto the woman? And he said, I am.
Notice the response from the man when asked by manoah was he that had came at first..He answered, not by saying yes, but I AM,
which I believe implies that He was the great I AM..remember ex 3:
14And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Jesus words in jn 8:
58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Now what proceeds after this with manoah and the Angel ?
12And Manoah said, Now let thy words come to pass. How shall we order the child, and how shall we do unto him?
13And the angel of the LORD said unto Manoah, Of all that I said unto the woman let her beware.
14She may not eat of any thing that cometh of the vine, neither let her drink wine or strong drink, nor eat any unclean thing: all that I commanded her let her observe.
15And Manoah said unto the angel of the LORD, I pray thee, let us detain thee, until we shall have made ready a kid for thee. 16And the angel of the LORD said unto Manoah, Though thou detain me, I will not eat of thy bread: and if thou wilt offer a burnt offering, thou must offer it unto the LORD. For Manoah knew not that he was an angel of the LORD.
The angel affirmed all that the wife had told the husband. Then the man asked the Angel his name:
17And Manoah said unto the angel of the LORD, What is thy name, that when thy sayings come to pass we may do thee honour?
18And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret?
Now why did the Angel of the Lord say this ? He stated His name is secret! Interestingly, the word secret in hebrew is:
pil'iy :
wonderful, incomprehensible, extraordinary
words here maybe too descriptive for a mere Angel, but I am reminded of isa 9:
6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
now its a different hebrew word in isa 9 6 the word for wonderful here is:
pele' :
wonder, marvel
a) wonder (extraordinary, hard to understand thing)
wonder (of God's acts of judgment and redemption)But nevertheless the meanings of the two words are quite similar, especially in the hard to understand definitions..I see no difference in that which is imcomprehensible in judge 13 8 and the hard to understand in the isa 9 6 defintions..
So its safe to conclude in my Judgment that The Angel of The LORD in judges 13 is The wonderful in Isa 9 6..whom is also The Mighty God..
It is said later that after making an offering that the Angel of The LORD did wonderously before them..close to the same word as in isa 9 6 for wonderful, here the word is
pala' :
to be marvellous, be wonderful, be surpassing, be extraordinary, separate by distinguishing action
a) (Niphal)
1) to be beyond one's power, be difficult to do
2) to be difficult to understand
3) to be wonderful, be extraordinary
perhaps it was this sight that caused this statement:
20For it came to pass, when the flame went up toward heaven from off the altar, that the angel of the LORD ascended in the flame of the altar. And Manoah and his wife looked on it, and fell on their faces to the ground.
Maybe similar to the burning bush vision sight moses had..but notice, the Angel of the LORD acsended in the flame..
It was a splendid, gloriuos, supernatral site for the couple to fall on their faces to the ground..and then:
21But the angel of the LORD did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an angel of the LORD. 22And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God.
This is not superstition here, but an inspired response, that this blessed couple had seen with their own eyes God[elohim]..
Notice the womens response to the fright of the husband:
23But his wife said unto him, If the LORD were pleased to kill us, he would not have received a burnt offering and a meat offering at our hands, neither would he have shewed us all these things, nor would as at this time have told us such things as these
I thank God for a saved help meet, a women who fears the Lord, this is a rare find for a man and is a token of Gods favour to a man..
prov 19:
14House and riches are the inheritance of fathers: and a prudent wife is from the LORD.
She says three things to relieve her husbands unfounded fear. That if it was of God to kill them that #1:
he would not have received a burnt offering and a meat offering at our hands
#2.
neither would he have shewed us all these things
#3.
nor would as at this time have told us such things as these
Told us such things as these ! Why when did the LORD [Jehovah] tell them all these things ? Why it was when He spake to them as the Angel of The LORD..
But in conclusion, did manoah and his wife see God ? Why yes they saw God, they saw The Son of God, the Angel of the Covenant..Jesus christ..and He that hath seen the Son, hath Seen the Father, and hath seen God..