Voice...

I want to publicly say how sorry I am for what transpired this past fall with IR. I noticed that after all that garbage was aired that many were very cool toward you and I.

I don't really care much about myself...but I am sorry for hurting you.

I love to read your posts. I know you and I don't always see eye to eye on everything...Lord knows we have had some major disputes...

But you are a very intelligent man and I value your thoughts.

I love you very much. Don't ever forget that. And I'm praying for you all the time.

You know how to reach me.

Cindy

H2BF you are a sweet person for reaching out....

If only more would take such a lead....

I love you too, Voice. At least drop us alla word. We have fellowship with the Father together.

Heya Voice
I don't know what went on with IR, as I was new and couldn't keep up with it all.... but I have really enjoyed reading your posts and would like you to stick around.
Whatever you choose, God bless x

Miss 'ya, Voice!

Voice is one of the few Jewish members we have here. And he knows much more about the Torah and scriptures than he lets on. He is a very good teacher when he wants to teach. I hope he will stay around too.

I hope I have as much love for me around here as Voice apparently does if I ever left.

Be blessed Voice

Yup, I enjoyed all the Rosh Hashanah stuff.
Well, that's it, Voice can't leave, we need him to explain all the Torah/festival/Jewish stuff because there is so much in there which edifies us and points us to the Lord

Cindy, I have been very thick and only just realised you changed your username

It's another sn I have used in the past.

Voice,

I have left a couple of times...it took me awhile to get used to forum. I don't always
like it, yet sometimes I love it, and mostly I love praying for people and encouraging
them...

So, I encourage you to rest, but don't leave. There are no other forums out there
none quite like this one. Even when it is terrible here as it sometimes gets...it is just a
thumbnail of what is really going on outthere...microcosm so to speak.

Don't feel you have to answer anyone, or tell anything. Do according to your heart
in love and bless us with your presence.

Signet

Pam, Shine, Adam, Signet, Annie...(I hope I didn't miss anyone)

Thank you guys for joining in on trying to encourage Voice to stay.

You all are awesome and I am so blessed to get to communicate with you.

Thanks again. And I hope you all have a wonderful Thanksgiving. We have a lot to be thankful for. I know I do.

love and hugs...

Cindy

You too, hope your Thanksgiving is blessed....

Fair winds, Voice, but come back anytime.

Love HB

Do it for the little people like myself

Lamentations 2:19 Arise, cry out in the night: in the beginning of the watches pour out thine heart like water before the face of the Lord: lift up thy hands toward him for the life of thy young children, that faint for hunger in the top of every street.

humility is good

forgiveness is good

it is always a door that swings both ways..

lately, i have been praying for the Lord to draw His sheep.. to open their eyes..

when this happens there will be the unity, that our Saviour prayed for on our behalf..

I continue to pray..

much love to each member of this forum

-------------

and P.S. .. Lord knows, I sure don't miss the bickering.. and the hurt but

I miss Voice and IR too..

Many thanks for your kindnesses.
I had a big simcha (eg. wedding, barmitzvah etc) to prepare for which kept me
busy for a short while, so there was never any intention to leave or take a 'rest' from the forum.
Nevertheless ... your affection is cherished.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp8xTnkv7Co

Voice :

I am very glad to hear this.

I have learned many things from you. And hope to continue to learn many more truths
of the Word of the Lord, through your post.


Blessings and I understand diversity very well. People do not have to agree on 100%
everything.

And I am standing on this instruction, . . .


Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?



Thank you, for all the love . . . and all the grace you share !



Betty
C7A

Shalom Betty (keter-sheva-aleph-bina) [has a nice 'ring' to it),

It was a great simcha and kept me very busy dancing, eating and
drinking, k'velling and shepping nachat and rejoicing with mishpacha. (I know you understand Ivrit).
Be'ahava
voice

Galus, the loss of a permanent home . . .

. . . Mishpacha is Hebrew for ' family' . . .

The move to an impermanent dwelling facilitates what Rav Dessler calls bitul hayesh – the negation of our attachment to the physical world.



Glad you are home, Voice !

ME 2!!!

BIG HUGS!

Per your pm to me, I thought you were leaving. It's why I started this thread.

Either way.... saying one is sorry brings healing I hope.


Sh'ma Yis'ra'eil Adonai Eloheinu Adonai echad.
Hear, Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One.

Yes, our permanent 'home' is Jesus Himself.
This occurs at the moment of one's salvation.

The sukkah reminds us of the impermanent dwelling which is this 'guf', soon to be
changed at the harpazo-parousia into the eternal resurrection body. Yeshua experienced this 'impermanence' during his incarnation as the Brit HaChadasha states,
in the first chapter of Yochanan:

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 1:14

והדבר נהיה בשר וישכן בתוכנו ונחזה תפארתו כתפארת בן יחיד לאביו רב חסד ואמת׃

וישכן ...... 'vayishkan' ... tabernacled/sukkahed temporarily among us (sort of, 'set up shop' so to speak ... 'vayishkan' is like 'mishkan' ... tabernacle ... it is a bit more
'grand' than 'sukkah' but, as you know, the 'mishkan kevodecha' in the 'midbar' (wilderness) had to be taken down when Klal Yisroel moved closer to the Promised Land of Israel.

So, Yeshua's passing on the Roman cross, was the ultimate 'taking down' of His own
'Mishkan-Sukkah/Succah'. After His Resurrection, He sits now at the right hand of our Avinu shebashamayim (Father in heaven) - He is now, no longer the 'Mishkan-Sukkah', but is now the Eternal Beit HaMikdash (our Holy Temple) as we all rest in Him.

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
Revelation 21:22

Your reference to Rav Dessler's 'bitul hayesh' is somewhat similar, although Rav Dessler's description is kabbalistic in its essence



Here is Rav Dessler's 'p'shat' on the 'bitul hayesh' in relation to the current worldwide economic meltdown ... (see the last paragraph for specifics)
http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/200...n-the-meltdown/

And how the Chassidim are dealing with the current economic meltdown using the concept of 'bitul hayesh' ...
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/jonathan/...m_sukkos08.php3

And the basic Chassidus on the 'bitul hayesh' ...
http://www.inner.org/powers/powbitul.htm

LeChayei Olam b'Yeshua HaMaschiach, be'ahavahat olam
voice

Voice, glad to hear your voice again.

I also like the new style. You are writing a lot of words from your own heart. I read everything and I find this very helpful. I admit, I was tongue tangled and laughing when I tried to read this:

Shalom Betty (keter-sheva-aleph-bina) [has a nice 'ring' to it),

It was a great simcha and kept me very busy dancing, eating and
drinking, k'velling and shepping nachat and rejoicing with mishpacha. (I know you understand Ivrit).
Be'ahava
voice

Simcha is the ritual laying on of hands to officiate certain sacred people/rituals, etc. Am I correct?

K'velling and shepping nachat? I am at a loss.

Mishpacha is the family.

Ivrit is Hebrew.

Be'ahava must mean "in life/living" or something. Am I close?

http://www.headcoverings-by-devorah.com/Hebrew_Phrases.htm

He's speaking Yiddish.

K'velling - having a joyous time

Shepping nachas - he's proud of someone

Another 'gloss' on 'bitul hayesh' as relating to Yeshua HaMaschiach:

5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Philippians 2: 5-11

This 'bitul hayesh' is also found in Isaiah 53 and might be called
the 'bitul hayeshua' :

Isaiah 53
1Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

2For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

3He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.



The benefit for us of Yeshua becoming/being the actual 'bitul yesh' for us is-

For he has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

2 Corinthians 5:21

Thank you, Voice :


I just returned from 12 hour shift.


And I appreciate your post . . . I found this to share with you !


EXCERPT

It develops further into an awareness of personal insignificance
in the presence of Divine Majesty. On this higher level it signifies
bitul ha-yesh (total self-negation). It diverts one's sights from
concern with self to concern with the Ultimate. Thus it ignites a
consuming desire to be restored to and absorbed in the Divine
Presence: "My soul thirsts for G-d, for the living G-d - when shall I
come and be seen in the Presence of G-d...."

"Oh G-d, You are my G-d, I seek You earnestly. My soul thirsts for
You, my flesh longs for You, in a dry and wary land without water....
or Your loving-kindness is better than life......"
http://members.tripod.com/~Trump9/Judaism/teshuva.html

Yes ... in the First (Older) Testament/Torah, the God- 'lover' becomes lost in their love for God and thus a 'kind' of bitul hayesh is experienced.


It still can seem/sound a bit too much like Buddhism and/or Kabbalah for me, however if one understands it in the context of scripture, it is palatable spiritually.

Certainly, one could effectively practice 'self-negation' outside of Christ as is done in Zen/Chan Buddhism or other esoteric religions, however, the constant striving to negate 'the self' is in itself, an act of the ego ... hence, even in Zen it is said " the way that can be known, is not the way" (since, 'binding' oneself to anything is 'unZen'). Then, 'bitul hayesh becomes just another 'fleshly' work, attempting to
replace the atoning work of Messiah Himself.

Jesus, being the Way, the Truth and the Life, stresses that self-negation after
the initial salvation experience, is evidence of being saved and discipleship.
The 'kabbalistic' "bitul hayesh" is merely another mitzvah in ascending the ladder to God. However, Jesus HImself, is the 'bitul yesh' incarnate, Who must be personally accepted and appropriated for salvation to be realized. Hence, the Word says (amazingly, every gospel has this admonition):

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
Mark 8:35

"He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.
Matthew 10:38

"Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.
Luke 17:33

"He who loves his life loses it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it to life eternal.
John 12:25

Maranatha, vechol tov
voice

http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...st&p=256811


And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Colossians 1:20

When I posted the above... I was refering to you and ONLY you. And I posted that because I thought you were leaving perhaps because of under tones of tension due to the problems that were caused by it all.. (per your pm).

If you continue to stay.... I think you have much good you can share concerning Yeshua and Jewish customs and
the teaching of the scriptures.

But as for what transpired.... no...you did nothing.

But as for what I did...its a shame that I allowed my emotions get the best of me. I have to work on that.
So... I owed you that apology.

Shalom

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r2pEdc1_lI

Oh thats really cute.

For what it's worth...I did notice an emptiness within the forum a few several day's and then it hit me...Voice isn't posting, hmmmm. I enjoy reading the things you post because some of it, in all honesty I might never have even heard of or read without your finding these articles and sharing them with us here. Especially the Messianic things and I really appreciate learning in my heart the Hebrew way's and looking at life overall from their perspective. I recognise I'm not a Jew but my love for them runs strong and deep almost to the point that I can't control it even if I wanted to. Even before I was this much into Yahshua my heart went out to Jerusalem and the people of Israel.

Where did all that come from!?

What I'm trying to say is I'm very pleased you're sticking around; and it is noticeable when you're MIA.

Hugs & Blessings in Yahshua's glorious Name~
Selah

God bless you both deeply.

When a Jewish person comes onto Christian-Forum.net, or any 'Christian forum', they should read posts about a love for them and Israel, about a love for the fully Jewish Messiah, rather than about accusatory anti-semitic, genocidal, racist vitriol.

When you truly love the Jewish people as Jesus loves them, you are Jewish.
He died for them and lives for them in His protection of Israel - especially since their being returned to their Land, by Him.



ויאמר להם הן הקציר רב והפעלים מעטים לכן התחננו אל אדון הקציר וישלח פעלים לקצירו׃
Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest. Luke 10:2


הנה לא־ינום ולא יישן שומר ישראל׃
Behold, he that keepeth Israel shall neither slumber nor sleep.
Psalm 121:4