I'm starting this thread because a few members here in this "Christian Forum" are promoting the spreading of this deception..ie; spreading the seed of a lie. I have been praying about this and felt I should bow out because I did not want to battle using the Word of God. However, this evening Yahshua revealed to me that the Word is a Sword, it is not fragile and cannot be defeated, and when we see God's Word attacked and blasphemed it IS our duty as ambassador's of Messiah to contend for the Word of God, this is an act of faith! So now I'm going to provide Scripture that refutes the serpent seed teaching and I'll ask those who defend such teaching to "put up or shut up" I'm not going to play your games, I'm not here to win a popularity contest, if you do not like that I defend the Holy Writ, you may "Get thee behind me Satan".

Number 1 Lie: Serpent and Eve had sex.
Genesis 4:1
And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

Above we can clearly see it was Adam who knew (had sex) with Eve and it was not until they were both expelled from the garden.

Number 2 Lie :The seed of enmity is a child, always accused of being Cain.
Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

I underlined two points! If the seed is sperma as some say, meaning male sperm, then one must apply the same meaning/translation to "her seed" and any common person knows that women do not have seeds, we have eggs. Speaking of seeds...

Number 3 Lie: The Parable of the sower regarding children of the wicked one are Cains offspring or Satans/Serpent offspring.
Matthew 13:37-39
He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

Once again the basis for lie number 3 is seed means sperm. OK, so if that is the case then let's not be biased; The Son of man sowed sperm? So ultimately lie number 2 and 3 cause even more than lies because they deny that 1) Angels are sexless, therefore cannot reproduce and 2) Jesus Christ, the sower of the children of the kingdom, has a genetic lineage, which is a blasphemous lie, because He did not have sex. So if seed means sperma, you must apply that in all areas where the word seed is used, not just the ones you choose so you can defend your doctrine of devils.

Number 4 Lie: Angels are the sons of God who went into daughters of men.
Genesis 6:2
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

In the above passage many are deceived into believing that the "sons of God" were heavenly bodied angels, well for one thing, an Angel of God would never be accused of doing such a thing and for two our Messiah say's this:
Matthew 22:30
For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

It was not until the lineage of Seth that men began to call upon the name of the LORD, thus Seth's line such as Enoch, walked with the LORD and were thus rightly called "sons of God". Some of them must have seen some of Cain's offspring as fair, and thus would be no different than a faithful Christian man (son of God) marrying a muslim woman, which as God warns all through Scripture, that these will turn the hearts of their husbands to worship idols, and the result of a child raised in the manner as above, would be mighty!

I'd prefer you kept the name calling to yourself as I'm not even going to acknowledge you if you call me "idiot" or "nitwit" I will return you the same respect. Remember, this is not about you nor me and name calling in all honesty, just makes you even look that much more guilty. When a professing Bible believer, resorts to calling another person names, you only bring shame to those who read it. Not to mention:

Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

So unless you have no fear of the above passage, then fire away and you will meet your end as spoken by our Messiah, His words, not mine.

Please address each lie specifically and do not dodge Scripture provided.
Regards,
Selah

Arnold Murray is the pastor of the Shepherd's Chapel, he is the primary advocate of these doctrines which he adamantly teaches and which his followers have adopted as biblical truth.

His entire position is easily refuted .. Gen. 4:1: "Now the man had relations with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain, and she said, "I have gotten a manchild with the help of the Lord." We can see that the Bible clearly tells us who the Father of Cain is, Adam. The Serpent Seed idea is proven wrong.

It is more natural to attribute the term "seed" in Gen. 3:15 as a reference to the spiritual decedents of Satan, not his literal ones. We can see that being a true spiritual descendent is by faith, not by biology.

"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God," (Rom. 2:28-29).
"For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God," (Rom. 8:14).
"The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him in order that we may also be glorified with Him," (Rom. 8:16).
"That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants," (Rom. 9:8).

Clearly, being a descendent has a spiritual quality. Likewise, Satan's descendents are those who identify with him in his lies. This is why Jesus said in John 8:44 to the Pharisees, "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature; for he is a liar, and the father of lies."


We could go on but this is just nonsense.

Agree with a lot of your above, however,
scripture makes clear certain angels DID have sexual contact with human women,... and were punished for this......
and I don't see any scripture telling us that angels cannot reproduce.
Angels don't have to be male/female in order to reproduce.

More later if you care to pursue this.

Number 4 Lie: Angels are the sons of God who went into daughters of men.
Genesis 6:2
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Satan too is this Son of god?

If Satan is a spiritual character and if angels can not get into women then is it fair to say that we should not be concern with the "anti-christ" (bad angel spirit into men) for such a thing can not and will not exist???

As used in Genesis and Job, "Sons of God" and "Angels" are synonymous.

[as "fallen angels" and "demons" are now synonymous]

All of this is what I would call sound doctrine. There is no bending the scriptures to fit.

Thank you Selah,

In Christ alone,
Chris

I have been hesitant to answer this post as enough has already been said. However, I must disagree....for the doctrine is sound and it is not bending scripture. It is understanding scripture. Actually SFO it was your post this morning that addressed it:

There were many many doctrines that I was being taught, but they had no truth in them, even though the people that taught me were convinced that they were true, they were very far away from what the Lord was intending us to understand through His Word.

An easy example: In 1981?? I was shown this verse:
John 14:2
In My Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

A man that truly loved the Lord showed me that this verse meant that when we are in Christ, and die, we will go to heaven and have a literal "mansion" in heaven that the Lord had prepared for us.

As there was a deeper understanding of "mansions" so is there to this subject. I am leaving shortly and will be gone for the day but will address one of the statments:

I underlined two points! If the seed is sperma as some say, meaning male sperm, then one must apply the same meaning/translation to "her seed" and any common person knows that women do not have seeds, we have eggs. Speaking of seeds...

Seed means offspring and yes, I know women have eggs however please look deeply into that verse. What does "her Seed" mean. In my Bible Seed is capitalized. Why? Because it refers to Christ. Was He the "seed" of a man? No. He was of the women....which is why it is written "her Seed." It is simply stating that Joseph would not be His father. So....God would place enmity between the seed of the serpent and the seed of the woman or....between Christ and Satan. Satan bruised the heels of Christ when He was nailed to the cross and Christ will crush the head of Satan...a death blow!

Otherwise you must see that scripture as....God putting enmity between the seed of fruit. An apple seed won't crush anyone's heel or head. A snake seed won't bruise anyone. There are many that would say you are "bending scripture" to not believe that we will all be living in a literal mansion on streets paved with gold for that is exactly what is written. There is more to this than you have been taught or are presently seeing. Whether or not you understand it isn't vital but I do wish you would ask yourselves....why and how are the scriptures being twisted when I have only provided scripture? What would the purpose be? Why are you calling it a "lie?" And....I have NEVER dodged Scripture with you or anyone.

What I find amazing is people say "seed" means this "seed" means that,,,if people would open the freakin manuscripts they would see the word is not "seed" its zirmah

Strong's Hebrew Dictionary: 2231. zirmah (zir-maw')
Strong's Hebrew: 2231. zirmah (zir-maw') ... Feminine of zerem; a gushing of fluid (semen) -- issue. see HEBREW zerem ...

Now why do weed need to change the manuscripts???????If the writers said it mean sperm it means sperm unless any on this forum is willing to say there Hebrew out ranks the writers of the manuscripts....any volunteers???????......(didnt think so)

Yes "SEED" can mean other things then sperm,,,,but "zirmah cant!!!!!!

And in this passage

Genesis 3:15 "And I [God] will put enmity between thee [Satan] and the woman [Eve], and between thy seed and her Seed [Jesus Christ]; It [Christ] shall bruise thy [Satan's] head, and thou [Satan] shalt bruise His [Christ's] heel."

The writers choose to write Zirmah not Zara` zaw-rah' which means a primitive root; to sow; figuratively, to disseminate, plant, fructify:--bear, conceive seed, set with sow(-er)

Yes, the Word is a Sword. Yes, all of us should defend that Word. No, what someone doesn't understand is not a lie or twisting by another. You or I may not understand, may believe it is just strange, wrong, etc. but to say someone is lying isn't the way to go about getting to the truth. I will add that saying God's Word is being "attacked" or "blasphemed" is the same as calling it a lie...or me a liar. I assure you....this is no game being played.

QUOTE

Yes...Adam and Eve had sex. Eve thanked the "Lord." Was He the father? No. Was Adam a "Lord?" No, so that verse proves nothing in so far as naming Adam or Satan as the father of Cain. We know that something happened between Satan (the serpent) and Eve. Was it taking the bite of an apple? No. Then you must gauge how much time passed from the garden episode to Adam "knowing" his wife. Was it a few hours, a day, a few days? How much time elapses in the cycle of a woman during which she can become pregnant? Fraternal twins are a normal event and there are times they are proven to be of different fathers.

QUOTE

I explained that earlier today.

QUOTE

Christ is God. We are the children of God. No one is saying that Christ has a physical lineage but we are from literal seed.

Angels are not sexless. Please read Genesis 6 and Jude 6.

QUOTE

Please notice it states....IN THE RESURRECTION. In the next age there will be no marriage. We aren't there yet.





Sons of God, as used in those scriptures are angels, fallen angels:

Jude 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them, in like manner giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.





Then I would suggest you remove "liar" from your vocabulary.

QUOTE

Nothing has been dodged. Against my better judgment I decided to answer this....mainly because of the comment of SFO in believing this was "bending scripture." There is much, much more that points to Cain and his lineage but most has already been explained. Again....whether or not you accept it isn't important nor does it matter to me. You accusing me of blasphemy and lying does.

OK WW you believe as I do that there is no rapture doctrine, correct? So would you not defend the truth of the Word upon that particular teaching? Would then it not be considered a lie? You are not the liar Judi, you are one I consider as deceived by one that either himself is deceived or is a liar. You took the serpent seed doctrine teaching from a man, not Scripture and you defend it just as those who defend the rapture teaching. So if it better suits you then I will simply state you are wrong and the Bible is correct.





Is it wrong to thank God or The "LORD" for having a baby? I've covered this in another thread, that most women even those who are atheists thank God after delivering a baby. Eve said pretty much the same regarding Seth:
Genesis 4:25
And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

So if the LORD in Genesis 4:1 is referring to Satan as the father then we have a HUGE problem on our hands don't we. Considering the "LORD" is always a placing for the name of God in Scripture, then we must now assume based upon what you're saying that all placings in Scripture where the word "LORD" is, is referring to Satan. This is where the teaching takes too many twists and turns and creates another doctrine upon the Word already established as truth.



Yes we know something happened between the serpent and Eve and we can read what that something was that happened without having to add to or take away from the Word. Clearly the entire act in the garden regarding the fall of mankind was an act of disobedience, straight up, whether the fruit of the tree was an apple literal or figurative the disobedience is the same. Let me ask you a question, do you believe the serpent is the tree of knowledge of good and evil? Because it was not the "communication" between the serpent and Eve that was off limits, it was the partaking/eating of the *tree*, so let's go with your belief for a moment...Eve would have become pregnant by the tree not the serpent, she partook of the tree not the serpent and then we must assume if the partaking was a sexual act which made Eve pregnant, then how did Adam participate? Believe me when I say this Judi, I have considered the "serpent seed doctrine" but rather than jumping to believe what someone else has "discovered" I searched the Scriptures and looked at all avenues and outcomes and it does not line up, and infact creates, just as I've stated many times, a whole new doctrine and we are warned:

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

How much more clear can the above warning be? "doctrine of devils"/"serpent seed doctrine"are they not one and the same even? I believe satan would actually be pleased to have us believe he sired Cain or perhaps even another child and thus made for himself a lineage. But the Gospel is not about destroying lineages, it's about destroying the works of satan which is sin. That Bible was given to all mankind, not just a select few, many times that Bible has found it's way into the hands, hearts and minds of people we would or might even consider "satanic" and it has transformed their lives! Think of Apostle Paul, was he not a murderer? He did a 180 when he realised he was persecuting the LORD Jesus! So do you not consider that the teaching you adhere to takes away from the Gospel? If there is a lineage or genetic line of Satan, and I'm not of it, then why would I need a saviour? I need a saviour just as much as the entire world needs Him, that goes for all lineages all nations and tribes and tongues, we all are in a fallen state and are bound in the flesh by sin, so technically, that makes us all serpents prior to coming to accepting Jesus Christ as our Saviour and taking the lifetime walk with Him, right? If I choose not to believe in Him, which many have chosen for one reason or another, then either one they once knew Him and fell away or never desired to know Him because evidentally they do not believe they are in a "state" which needs redeeming, and this is what the world teaches, such as evolution, string theories, big bang etc etc etc...this is what our children are taught in public schools and considered "education" this is part of that tree that Eve partook of that is still going today strong as ever, which diverts peoples away from the tree of life.

I do not know what more I personally can say to you. I would ask you though, what profit is it to teach what you teach? Consider the fruits it bares, does it produce or does it destroy? Does it cause division or bring together in the unity of the body of Christ? Does it lead to the understanding that every person falls short the glory of God and is sinful thus needing a Saviour or does it bring an understanding that there is a lineage upon earth that obviously has remained unmixed over the centuries and only they are the fallen ones in need of a Saviour?

Really and truly ask yourself some questions regarding the serpent seed doctrine and will you be alright with explaining this belief to God one day, considering it is not evident at all within the passages I gave in the opening post. Sure, many passages within the Word are somewhat obscure, but does that give man the the right to make up stories or imagine scenerios about them?




Explain what you mean here. Brief is not acceptable in this case.



Jude 1:6 (King James Version)
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

So where in the above passage does it state that angels are sexless or not? And also continuing on..Jude is saying that they are reserved in everlasting chains, so at what point in time where they chained? Angels, angels, messengers, sons of God and an Angel of the Lord are not the same! We today by our continued faith and belief etc are considered sons of God, but if we depart from that faith, then what? Would we not be considered departing from our heavenly habitation? Just a thought to ponder.




Of course I noticed what He is saying, He compares us to the angels of God when we are resurrected, so that we, like them, neither marry nor are given in marriage, therefore sexless. This is a glimpse of what we become in the resurrection of life. It is also a mystery, and no one on this earth knows other than what we've been given in Scripture.



If it is a lie, then I will call it as such. And who was it that was a liar from the beginning? Was it Cain or the serpent? And who was the murderer from the beginning? You say Cain, but you are not going back to the beginning. God told Adam that in the day he ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil that he would surely die. Serpent not only lied but caused death, so again, who was a liar and murderer from the beginning? We do not sin and die because of Cain, we sin and die because we believed the serpent over God, period. Nothing sexual had to take place because the act of disobedience was all it took and is plenty enough!





I never accused YOU. I am strictly rebuking what you believe and teach, so if by my doing so is convicting you, then perhaps it might be in your better judgment to remove yourself from that teaching? What YOU teach is blasphemy, what YOU teach is a lie and bends Scripture, what YOU teach is another doctrine plain and simple, you've placed all the blame on the serpent and Cain for all our sinful nature and that my friend is EXACTLY the problem. You must stop pointing fingers and repent. This is exactly what Eve did, she blamed the serpent and many today are are no different than Eve. This is not a personal attack, I never resorted to personal name calling as you have. If you cannot handle denfending what you believe without resorting to calling someone who believes differently names such as slanderer and nitwit, then you would do better to simply remain silent. You and NM do the same things, you attack the person when in actuality you aren't even attacking me, you are attacking Him who I defend Think about it Judi..Take no offence but consider that He loves you and I love you too, why else would I be here at 2:44 AM after my pc crashed immediately addressing you? What do "I" have to gain??? What do you have to lose? I could walk away tomorrow and never return or I could continue working in Truth the best I know how with every bit of hope that maybe not today or tomorrow and maybe not even in a year, but one day that you will realise you are deceived by this teaching sorely.
~Selah

Marriage is one thing.

Sexuality is something else.

Reproduction is something else.

Selah...I'm not going to read your reply or answer to you on this subject anymore if at all possible. We have both said what we believe. As I stated...I answered against my better judgment and did that only because of Spirit Filled One. He may never agree but at least he has been given the scriptures.


John Prewett.... Your post was way too profound for me. Please simplify and state your point.

1Jn 3:12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother's righteous.

Cain may have been of Adam in the physical, but from Satan in the spiritual...

Your 50% percent right,,,,,O yeah Cain was spiritually of Satan,,,,,but he was physically of of Eve and Satan.........

See the problem is,,,, people want to say the "seed" here doesnt mean sperm, that its not literal:::::

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

But The "seed" in the Hebrew is called "zirmah", here,,,,,and that means children offspring SPERM

God said the children that come from "satan and Eve" will not get along with the children from Adam and Eve" and its true,,,,,,,Cain son of the Devil murdered Abel son of Adam,,,,,its very simple.......

You answered SFO and then beneath your response to him you addressed me. Now out of respect and concern I responded back to you. So why even bother to respond to inform me that you have no intentions of responding to me and on top of that, aren't going to even read what I wrote. That is absolutely pathetic behaviour for anyone who professes to follow Jesus Christ. You have reached a point where you are so trapped by that doctrine that the Gospel has become a stumblingblock for you, so anyone presenting the truth of the Gospel suddenly becomes your enemy, yet it is not me that is your enemy, it is truth that you see as your accuser because it exposes your teaching wide open. That is the power of the Gospel WW, and it's a good thing, not something you should retreat from.

No the problem is you do not believe what the Word of God states clearly. You doubt God's Word all over this forum and reel in those that believe His word with your bating tactics to get them to answer not only what is clear as crystal in Scripture but to also answer your doubts and when someone does (which I've witnessed) you lash out with personal attacks or call the person an idiot or worse.

Genesis 4:1
And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

Why don't you just ask the Author? Ask Him why the Scripture passage say's "Cain knew his wife and she conceived and bare Cain" when according to YOU it ought to say something else and then why not ask Him why Eve said "I've gotten a man from the LORD"? Because no answer from any human being is ever going to give you what you actually seek, because for one there is no truth in what you've stated above and second unless the person actually agrees with "your doctrine" you have no desire to consider even for a second that you might actually be casting truth to the ground and trampling all over it.

First of all you told me you werent responding to me so why reply to my post????????I not trippin you can talk to me but dont spit out junk you cant prove.....

I believe Adam had sex with Eve and got her pregnant but she was already carrying the devils child,,,,,,see when 2 men drop sperm in a woman at or around the same time she can have twins with each child belonging to a different father,,,and unlike your little Torah comment I can prove this....

I answered your question but when I asked you questions you rather flat out lie to prove points........

You told me the Torah said Cain married his sister,,,then when asked to show where in the Torah,,, you couldnt do it.......

You also said that the word "SEED" doesnt mean sperm in this verse

Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

You tell people the Hebrew can mean many different things because ytou dont understand Hebrew article and particle....

THe word used here is "ZIRMAH" Feminine of zerem; a gushing of fluid (semen) -- issue

You can try and change the word all you want to,,,but scholars alot more knowlegable of the languages then you choose Zirmah thay did not choose 2232 zara` zaw-rah'

See you can play your little bull crap games on the unlearned but I dont play that......

Now you keep telling people that seed doesnt refer to sperm here if you wanna but its a freakin lie,,,,,and you still have never shown that the Torah says Cain married a sister of his.........

Genesis 3:15 looks forward to the day that Jesus would be born the "seed" of a woman. Satan has always been at war with Israel and the Jewish people.
Satan tried to kill the Lord at His birth. Satan and his followers are already defeated by the works of Christ on the cross.

Praise be to the Lamb of God, Jesus our Lord!


taltimbr

NM, I said I was no longer going to acknowledge you-in another thread-because of the way you conduct yourself. You seem to forget that the Word which you use to debate, our Creator had to die for us to have, He is King and should we not represent Him as Royalty? If you approached me in a different manner, I might actually learn something from what you say you have to teach, but because you continually become nasty and have no patience at all, I refuse to take anything you say as truth. How can I? If truth means having a terrible personality and treating people as they're all ignorant, then I'd rather be ignorant! You would do better to just speak to yourself in the mirror, in other words any bit of knowledge you have is all vanity if all you do is use it to make others look inferior. Don't you get it? What good does it do you or anyone to have all the knowledge in the Bible or world if noone can even stand to listen to you?

Try another way and I will listen.

I bet if you showed me where the Torah said Cain married his sister I would be cooler with you......

Your learning is not based on me,,,Im telling you the same thing others have told you,,,,you didnt except it when they told you in a nice manner,,,,,,so even if I change my style you wont hear my speech......

And its not like im being mean or cruel,,,im just being frank.....

If you wanna discuss it we can,,,,but I think we should stay on one verse at a time probley starting with

Genesis 1





taltimbr please look at the entire passage,,,yes it does speak of Christ but it also speaks of literal children that come from satan..........

http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...st&p=166996

Maranatha be'ahava
voice

http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...st&p=167011

Maranatha, in Mashiach Yeshua
voice

Amen.

http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...st&p=166689

Maranatha, b'aliyah bashamayim.
voice

How can I show you? I wrote pretty much what the Jewish "historians" say because you asked a question. You asked "where did Cain get his wife"? I gave you, to the best of my knowledge, the answer, whether that is factual or not, how do we know? The Bible does not give us that information, so we can either "imagine" or "guess" or "assume" the most reasonable answer. Personally I don't think it matters. If it mattered Biblically, then rest assured the information would be given.


You are telling me something similar that one other member is also saying. No other member in this forum defends what you are saying, not that I've seen anyway. So when it comes to you and one other defending something Scriptural that isn't clear or we have to add something that isn't there, then the job I have as a believer in Yahshua is to discern, study, test and and try whether what you are saying is truth. But when that happens and it has many times, you and WW get offended and start name calling, which only furthermore proves that the spirit working with you is provocative and disputing-which I'm taught is not "fruits of the spirit".


You can be frank without calling someone who does not believe as you do and idiot or ignorant or a fool. You resort to name calling, what manner of spirit does that? Defend your doctrine if you must, but be aware that we are taught as believers not to be swayed by every wind of doctrine, and if the doctrine is not Biblically sound, then why am I to be lured into believing it because some name calling person on a forum say's it is truth?


I don't mind discussing the Bible through and through, that's what "Bible study" is all about. But what do we do when the dividing line comes because you believe in something totally different then what is written? I do not go outside the Word, everything we need is already given. And language or interpretations are no match for my teacher, He can guide us through all of that and into all truths "provided it does not go against what is sound" that requires discernment.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

As above, God created all things in heaven and earth, including the tree and the serpent and man and woman. There is no "co creator" unless man gives another the glory due only to the Father Yahweh. That's what you do when you say that the serpent had sex with Eve first, that is soley where the problem comes in, you cannot believe that it was the act of disobeying God that caused the ENTIRE fall, where sin and death came in for ALL mankind, not just one genetic line.


So let's start there with sound doctrine already given and move forward, without all the disruptive behaviour.

The Great Star

Rev 8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell from heaven a great star, burning as a torch, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of the waters;
Rev 8:11 and the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

The Star is Satan
The rivers and the fountains of waters are people
And the death is spiritual, not literal

Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall be multiplied, the love of the many shall wax cold.

They become bitter because of the increase of iniquity and lose their love.

All caused by Satan.

That's it!

Well if you understand that God created the earth along time ago and not just 6,000 years ago we can move on,,,,,,,Indeed He is the creator of light the moon the sun stars animals and us surely......

I think THE problem lies HERE"""

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.


Do you know what that word "Man" means in the Hebrew???????Because it doesnt mean a sinlge man the husband of Eve,,,,it means mankind and I can prove it really easy when yourready........

Those of the serpent's seed say that people are presented in scripture as water(s), trees, and grass

Read the following passage and replace water(s), trees, and grass (herbs} with the word "people" and see how ridiculous this idea is

Scripture should always be translated "literally" unless there is a related explanation attached to a symbolic definition

Neither can one switch the rules of interpretation back and forth when it suits their cause .... the trees of the garden are no different that the trees defined in Genesis 1:12

Neither are there any languages (Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, English) that define a tree any differently .... a tree is a tree

The argument that one needs to know another language because one languag