CHRISTIANS ARE TO BE TAKEN CAPTIVE

Jeremiah 30:3 For, lo, the days come, saith the Lord that I will bring again the captivity of My people Israel and Judah, saith the Lord: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.'"

Jacob, son of Isaac, son of Abraham, is the one through whom the "seed shall be called." [Rom. 9:7] Jacob's name was changed to Israel….he is the father of all twelve tribes. Two of those tribes are Judah and Benjamin and they are the "house of Judah," or are properly called Jews. The other ten tribes are the "house of Israel" and ARE NOT JEWS.



Knowing that, when we read…..

Jeremiah 30:7 Alas ! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

We should understand that "Jacob's trouble" refers to us….Christians and not just the Jews. We, Christians, will face the day of Jacob's trouble for….we are part of Jacob/Israel.



Our Father sent both houses, Israel and Judah into captivity. Israel was taken captive by Assyria and then two hundred years later Judah was taken by Babylon. Judah returned….Israel did not. But, they didn't simply vanish so…where are they now?



Our Father will again send us into captivity of a different type.....

Jeremiah 31:23 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; 'As yet they shall use this speech in the land of Judah and in the cities thereof, when I shall bring again their captivity: 'The Lord bless thee, O habitation of justice, and mountain of holiness.'



31:27 "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.

There we are shown three different "seeds." The seed of the tribes and the seed of man and the seed of beasts. The seed of the tribes are from the Adamic line. The seed of man are the seed of the nations, the races…mankind. What or who are the "seed of beast?" Who is the beast?

Revelation 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

Jeremiah 30:4 And these are the words that the Lord spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah.

As our Father instructed Israel to go into captivity in past history...He instructs us to do so in the future….it is our destiny to be taken.

Luke 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for My name's sake.



21:13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.



21:14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:



21:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

That is the captivity some of us will face. Then, we will allow the Holy Spirit to speak through us and that is what will seal those God allows to hear, with understanding, what He has spoken. Then…..the wrath of God.

Jeremiah 30:7 Alas ! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

BI is a false fabrication and primarily the idea of Herbert W. Armstrong and others who follow it

There is no scriptural support for it at all

The Gentiles are not of national Israel [Jacob]

That's odd Stephen, I don't see any mention of what you are writing. I see a decided difference shown by our Father in the two houses. This post is not to discuss what I know to be true for it is written but rather to discuss the captivity that some of us will face.

But you are using BI to discuss and to tell others that Gentiles are members of national Israel

There is a serious problem with this idea that you have because of the related baggage carried by the teaching

Revelation is very clear about those who enter the tribulation period and turn to the Lord during the period

Most of those who do will be captured and killed, both Gentiles and national Israelites

One thing we do know is that time is short for us. I can now see where it will start as little things at first and then wham.
I may or may not be right about this but I'm feeling now we will be accused of hate crimes and if we speak out against lets say same sex marriages some one will report us and we will be arrested. It could be minsters or one of us talking to so called friend and they report us. Wham we are arrested!

what is BI ???

our physical lives are but a vapor
if our Father chooses captivity for us, let us bear the fruit of Jesus Christ and see the last of God's enemies defeated
death where art thou sting

born once die twice
born twice die once and some not at all
some will not see death
hallelujah

"what is BI ???"

This is the false teaching that the Anglo Saxon race are the 10 lost tribes of Israel

BI is British/Israelism

I would suggest that you do a search on the Internet for Herbert W. Armstrong and his aberrant teaching on this subject for your understanding

Or.....one could search the scriptures for there you will find the answers.

You mean just like the last 2000 years of martyredom of Jews and Christians?

Related article on BI from discovery of this false teaching. HWA is no longer living, but his teachings have been picked up and carried by others like Arnold Murray who adds it to his own false teaching of the serpent seed doctrine. Both fabrications are highly racially biased and anti-Semitic. The Bible does not support either of these two fabricated doctrines. Both of these pied pipers are classed as cult leaders who have attempted to and have developed proprietary organizations of followers. It is best for the believer to understand these false teachings for what they are, but to refrain from being deceived by them.

"British Israelism" examined and its errors exposed

These articles have aroused opposition, for the most part, of the most inane nature. It has to be said that there was no attempt whatever to answer the points that were made from the Word of God. Rather, attacks on anyone and anything that would serve as a diversion and conceal the failure of the advocates of the folly of British Israelism. Abusive phone calls and e-mails mark the response of most of those who contacted us from the BI camp. Most, but not all were of this ilk. I did talk to one young man who promised that he would convey to Mr. Alan Campbell the open invitation to reply to the articles and have this reply printed in "The Burning Bush." He was very courteous and freely admitted that he was unable to comment on the scriptures brought to his attention. He was told that it was most foolish to commit yourself to a system of teaching about which you really know nothing. I suspect that is the position of most BI disciples.

We are pleased to present Rev. Ron Johnstone's fourth and final article in this series and repeat our confidence that our detractors will once again be unable to answer what is said from the Word of God. It is one thing to claim you believe and teach the Bible in a church advertisement or on a web site, but quite another to answer from the Bible that critique which demonstrates that your teaching is anything but Biblical .
The Editor .

This is the last article in the series. This is not because we have run out of material. Space could be given to answer the foolish claims such as that "possessing the gate of their enemies" Gen 22:17; 24:60, means Britain owning Gibraltar! Space could also be devoted to answering the "Ensign" magazine's comment about there being a "sub-species of man existing as a humanoid." However it has not been our intention to answer every claim of British Israelites, especially when there was no attempt at refutation of earlier articles.

The purpose of the articles has been to warn believers of the dangers of being sucked in to extreme B.I. teaching and thereby making shipwreck of their faith.

We have pointed out that not all who hold B I views have gone to the same extreme as others, but nevertheless some have been led into what must be classed as damnable heresies. It would be inconsistent of us to expose the false teachings of the Church of Rome and yet not expose the errors of EXTREME B I teaching when it crosses our path.

I did not set out to research B I literature but was alarmed at material that came unsolicited into my possession. It was out of a concern that any Free Presbyterian would be swayed by the strong Protestant claims made by some B I proponents and so give credence to the myths and legends they propagate that I first put pen to paper. Since the first article, more blasphemous anti-Negro and anti-Jewish literature has been sent to us, literature that I never imagined would be circulated among professed evangelicals.

It is interesting that writers on British Israelism have pointed out that there have been two different groups in the forefront of promoting the teaching. One has been a group among Church of England evangelicals. The other, more extreme, has been groups of "Oneness" Pentecostals in USA and Australia, some teaching that baptism is necessary for salvation, "soul sleep" and the continuation of the Old Testament dietary laws. It has recently come to our attention that it is claimed that "The Worldwide Church of God", commenced by H W Armstrong, has now renounced its British Israelite teaching, stating it was based on myths and legends.

In his dictionary recommended for use for our Sabbath Schoolteachers, Dr. Alan Cairns has this to say about British Israelism. . . . .

BRITISH ISRAELISM
A fanciful theory, which holds that Great Britain is really the Israelite tribe of Ephraim, the United States is Manasseh, and the British throne is the throne of David. British Israelism (B.I.) has constructed a theory, which it passes off as history, that makes the British and American white populations direct descendants of the Israelites from the dispersion period.

The most plausible arguments advanced for the theory are based on the similarity of a few Hebrew and English words. For example, Saxon is said to be really Isaacson, -- son of Isaac; British is said to be two Hebrew words, berith, "covenant," and ish, "man", yielding the meaning "the men of covenant." The Engl part of England is alleged to be the Hebrew "egel", "bullock" because of the widespread sacrifice of bullocks there by "Issacsons," leading to the popular title John Bull.

These arguments are purely imaginary. They are based upon the similarity in sound of a few words and have no foundation in fact. BI's "history" of Jeremiah's escape with Zedekiah's daughter from Egypt to Ireland, carrying the Stone of Scone, is also unattested fancy. The removal of this "stone of destiny" to Scotland and then to Westminster Abbey is all part of B.I. lore. Professor Ramsey, the London geologist, upon chemical examination of the stone pronounced it be "calcareous sandstone of a reddish or purplish colour with heterogeneous pebbles, and of Scottish origin."

The entire theory of the ten lost tribes is a myth also. According to BI, the ten northern tribes were lost and were not included in the regathering with Judah after the exile. But according to Luke 2:36, Anna was of the northern tribe of Asher. In Acts 26:7 Paul mentions the presence of "our twelve tribes," indicating that none of them had been "lost."

B.I exhibits an arbitrary exegesis of Scripture married to a fairy-tale tradition posing as history and has produced "one of the most baseless and absurd varieties of Bible study that the human mind has yet produced" (A Pieters, The Seed ofAbraham, p.159).
{Dictionary of Theological Terms by Alan Cairns, p.68,69}.

DOES THE OLD TESTAMENT SUPPORT B I?

BI writers often refer to the Assyrian captivity of the Northern Kingdom of Israel which took place from 741BC to 721 BC. They argue that all the people of the 10 tribes were carried away into Assyria and then later set off north and west into Europe. They claim the blessings of Jacob upon Ephraim and Manasseh have been and are being fulfilled in the white citizens of Britain and N America. Some boldly state that NONE out of the 10 tribes returned to Palestine.

However such claims face a major difficulty! The scriptures tell a different story. Years after the captivity, "Hezekiah sent to all Israel and Judah, and wrote letters also to Ephraim and Manasseh that they should come to the house of the LORD at Jerusalem, to keep the Passover unto the LORD God of Israel." 2 Chron 30:1. Further to that, 2 Chron 30:18 states that, "many of Ephraim and Manasseh, Issachar and Zebulun" came to Jerusalem. That would have been a long trip if they had to come all the way from Britain and Ireland!

In the year 628 BC, a century after the Assyrian captivity, Josiah called Israel and Judah to observe the Passover. 2 Chron 34:9 records that Ephraim and Manasseh contributed to the repairing of the Temple by Josiah.

If the 10 tribes were in Europe at this time, as B I teachers maintain, how could they also be present at Jerusalem?

In Luke 2:36 it is recorded that the Saviour was seen in the Temple by a prophetess named Anna, of the tribe of Asher. If Asher had disappeared into Europe and lost knowledge of their identity, who had kept the lineage of Anna's family?

BI teachers claim that the appointed "place for My people Israel" referred to in 2 Sam 7:10 is the British Isles. Followers of B I in USA, usually known as "Identity Truth" teach the appointed place is N America. We will not take the space to go into detail on the meaning of 2 Sam 7:10 but rather urge readers to note that the passage specifically mentions the building of Solomon's temple, and "the place" was where the house was to be built (verse 13). Where was the house built? In the "appointed place" the land of Canaan, not somewhere else. Years later Nehemiah said it was the "place" to which Israel returned after their captivity, when God "gathered them from thence" to "bring them unto the place that I have chosen to set My Name there", Nehemiah 1:8-10. One should also note the margin cross reference from 2 Sam 7:10 in 2 Kings 21:7,8 which clearly shows the 'House' referred to is in Jerusalem not in London or New York! One wonders how THE place could be said to be in both Britain and the USA at the same time. It is interesting that though challenged we have still not heard an explanation of how those who travelled from Britain (Ephraim) suddenly became the tribe of Manasseh when they landed in North America. Neither has it been explained how USA (Manasseh) could be blessed if they rebelled against the Royal Israelite throne in England.

Surely every true Israelite should acknowledge the Throne of David. Verses in Isaiah that refer to "isles" are said by B I teachers to mean the British Isles. However in Hebrew the word can be translated "coastlands", "the shore of a mainland or an island coast".

THE SETTING OF DATES

A characteristic of many BI teachers is the tendency to set dates. This accounts for its attraction to some that love to hear such sensational claims. Hence 1917 is claimed to be the end of the times of the Gentiles and some taught that the generation then alive would not pass away. I received literature from advocates of B I which stated the eclipse of the sun last August was a fulfilment of prophecy. Their proof was that it occurred in the astrological star sign Leo that means Lion. It was therefore a Divine sign that the Age of the Lion of Judah was about to begin!

Scores of pages have been sent to Rev Foster by BI teachers that predict certain dates. The pyramid of Giza is referred to as a God-given chart of the end times. It is sad that some believers in Ulster have propagated the myth that the measurements of a pyramid in Egypt are able to tell us dates for the Lord's return. I would strongly urge all young believers in the Free Presbyterian Church to run from professed Christians who make such claims.

The pyramid of Giza has been used by Jehovah Witnesses, Ba'hai and other cults and as well, sadly, by some BIs and by Barry Smith to set prophetic dates.

ADDING TO SCRIPTURE

Some BI teachers have added to scripture. Great emphasis is placed on the Apocrypha. Various teachers claim inspiration for a 29th chapter of Acts which claims that Paul came to London to preach. Others have claimed inspiration for writings to Israelites living in Ireland. I personally received a leaflet urging support for an expedition to the hill Tara in the Irish Republic because it had been prophesied that when the "ark of God" hidden there had been dug up there would be peace in Ulster.
I have received many communications because of these articles. Some are sad, such as the person who stated that we are Israel because the word Scottish is from the Hebrew Succoth and the Scottish people have been wanderers! That writer wrote nothing to refute our statements in the articles.

However, some of the communications I have received have made me righteously indignant. How shocking it is to receive literature defending Sheldon Emery as a man of God. In one of his books the Negro is described as the "Beast of the Field" and Christianity as being a religion ONLY OF THE WHITE MAN.

Even more blasphemous literature has been received which states that the Jews today and at the time of Christ were in fact Edomites. It is actually claimed that the Jew came from a union between Satan and Eve. It is stated they are "genetically" descended from Satan!

Some readers may have been incredulous when I highlighted that there was literature being circulated in extreme B I circles in Northern Ireland, which taught that Adam was the father of the white race only. Such teach that there were mongrelised races on the earth before Adam was created.

When you get out of your system the need to cut and paste all of this would you then be interested in discussing what the post is about?

Honestly, whatever.

I don't research on BI or named doctrines or other theologies so when someone comes along and accuses me of preaching this or that type of lie, my conscious is clear, because I don't know what the heck they're talking about.

I read the Bible, pray that Christ gives me understanding and pray that I do not deceive nor I be deceived. Oh, and yes, I also watch for the times.

I do not believe in " BI" either.

However all believers are " national israel" according to the word of God, regardless of what their flesh was ( jew or gentile) because In Christ there is no more jew and gentile- In Christ WE DIE, we put to death the flesh which profits nothing and it is CHRIST who lives in us and we are made NEW CREATIONS.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye [being] IN TIME PAST Gentiles in the flesh[/color], who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;


Eph 2:12 That at that time YE WEREwithout Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:


Eph 2:13 BUT NOW in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes WERE FAR OFF ARE MADE NIGH by the blood of Christ.


Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath MADE BOTH ONE , and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us];


Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain ONE NEW MAN , [so] making peace;


Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:


Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.


Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.


Eph 2:19 Now therefore YE ARE NO MORE STRANGERS AND FOREIGNERS, BUT FELLOWCITIZENS with the saints, and of the household of God;


Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets[color="#8B0000"], Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone];


Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:


Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.



CLEARLY HERE WE WHO WERE ONCE AFAR OFF HAVE NOW BEEN BROUGHT NIGH- WE WHO WERE ONCE STRANGERS AND FORGEINGERS TO THE COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL ARE NOW NO LONGER STRANGERS BUT FELLOW CITIZENS.

THE TERMS STRANGER, FOREIGNER, COMMONWEALTH AND CITIZEN ARE ALL NATIONAL TERMS!!!

HERE IS THE GREEK WORD FOR " COMMONWEALTH" USED IN THIS CHAPTER

politeia (Strong's G4174)

1) the administration of civil affairs
2) a state or commonwealth
3) citizenship, the rights of a citizen



CLEARLY WE ARE PART OF ISRAEL.

(BTW IF WE WERE NOT GRAFTED INTO ISRAEL WE WOULD HAVE NO COVENANT BY WHICH TO BE SAVED BECAUSE THE NEW COVENANT GOD MADE WITH ISRAEL AND JUDAH)

ANYWAYS ON TOPIC, IT IS TRUE SOME OF US WILL GO INTO CAPTIVITY TO THE BEAST


Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.


The saints which lead others into captivity will themselves go into captivity and those who kill with the sword, must by the sword be killed because we are in Christ given the gospel of liberty not captivity and taking up our cross, not a sword to slay men with.

many in those days will lead into captivity, some will lead other believers into captivity to sins and the world, some will lead the beast to capture other believers.

yet thankfully we were born for such a time as this and will participate by our submission and God's grace to fulfil what the angels and prophets longed to see
In Him is protection, provision, power, and purpose.
Saints be blessed.
Ain'ts pray for grace unto repentance.

For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen,
being perceived through the things that are made...

Rom 1:20

We should be able to see some of this by looking at natural world.

I think the god of this world tries to reverse the natural order of what was made.

It will be funny if the order of things that God made are reversed, and, because of fear of saying things that aren't "politically correct," people won't broach the subject.

It might be more obvious than we think, but, we're afraid of the implications.

What has the "god" of this world tried to reverse of God's order?

This passage has nothing to do with the beast in Revelation. Once again you are reading the word seed as genetic seeds, you are leaning unto your own understanding. I don't want to fight argue and debate with you, I just hope to atleast have some teeny weeny impact upon you enough to help you into the Gospel of truth.

Study the above passage pertaining to the promise that did come 2000 years ago. Jeremiah 31:27 was a prophecy to do with Gentiles coming into the house of Judah or being sown in the Olive vine.

Romans 11:24
For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

Jews had always considered non-Jews as cattle or beasts and would never have approved of one entering the Temple much less approved of many being brought into the House or vine etc..But this was the promise given to Abraham many many years prior about to be fulfilled in our Messiah Yahshua. It is by our faith alone that we are called unto the eternal life given by the sacrifice and offering of God's only begotten Son. Selah! He is our light, sent out into the Gentiles and it is for God's glory that we are attracted to that light and believe by faith, having never seen, but believe.

Isaiah 49:6
And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Isaiah 61:9
And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which the LORD hath blessed.

Course now we are no longer considered as Gentiles, well we are by some staunch Jews, but being we believe by faith that we are part heirs of the kingdom, we too are joined together with them and we love them, and do not boast that some still have the veil when Moses is read, because there is a reason why that veil has not yet been removed:

Luke 21:24
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Jeremiah 31:31-33
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.


The beast in Revelation is a man or men or mankind, of the brutish kind.
Ecclesiastes 3:18
I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.

Selah I'm afraid it is you "leaning on your own understanding." There are times in life when it would be better to help yourself first by not beginning a study believing you already know the answers. If you cannot see, in the above passage, what is being spoken of why would you think you could have an impact on anyone....on that subject? Thank you for not wishing to debate or fight...nor do I. Now, would you like me to "help you into the Gospel of truth?" I repeat those words so you see how they sound when addressed to you.

I don't know what you mean by "not beginning a study believing you already know the answers"?
I didn't begin this particular study. Perhaps if you will not listen to me, you might listen to some of these-(four + witnesses below)? It certainly appears that you are the only person on the face of the earth who believes the passage in Jeremiah 31:27 to be 'evil' or 'negative'. I'm not seeing much positivity coming from you of late regarding the Bible. Whether I'm not exactly correct with respect to certain passages, I want to make sure of one thing, that where it is abundantly clear and not obscure in the least, and I witness someone turning the Bible into a dark obscure meaning-that I defend the Word to the best of the knowledge that Yahshua has given me. Granted it may not be much, and you might think I'm stupid, but I know this much, I will stand up and defend the honour of MY KING.

1)The 1599 Geneva Study Bible
31:26 Upon this I awoke, and beheld; and my sleep e was sweet to me.

(e) Having understood this vision of the Messiah to come, in whom the two houses of Israel and Judah would be joined, I rejoiced.

31:27 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah f with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.

(f) I will multiply and enrich them with people and cattle.
******************************************************
2)Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible
This one volume commentary was prepared by Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset and David Brown and published in 1871.

26. The words of Jeremiah: Upon this (or, By reason of this) announcement of a happy restoration, "I awaked" from the prophetic dream vouchsafed to me (Jeremiah 23:25) with the "sweet" impression thereof remaining on my mind. "Sleep" here means dream, as in Psalms 90:5.

27. He shows how a land so depopulated shall again be peopled. God will cause both men and beasts in it to increase to a multitude (Ezekiel 36:9-11'Hosea 2:23').

28. (Jeremiah 44:27). The same God who, as it were (in human language), was on the watch for all means to destroy, shall be as much on the watch for the means of their restoration.
****************************************************************
3)Matthew Henry Complete Commentary
on the Whole Bible

Verses 27-34 The prophet, having found his sleep sweet, made so by the revelations of divine grace, sets himself to sleep again, in hopes of further discoveries, and is not disappointed; for it is here further promised, I. That the people of God shall become both numerous and prosperous. Israel and Judah shall be replenished both with men and cattle, as if they were sown with the seed of both, v. 27. They shall increase and multiply like a field sown with corn; and this is the product of God’s blessing (v. 23), for whom God blessed, to them he said, Be fruitful. This should be a type of the wonderful increase of the gospel-church.
**************************************

4)John Wesley's Explanatory Notes
on the Whole Bible

31:25 For - The words are a promise, that God would give his people abundance of ease and plenty.
31:26 Upon this I awaked - Probably this revelation was made to Jeremiah, in a dream.
31:27 I will sow - That is, I will exceedingly multiply them, both with men and with cattle.
31:31 Behold - And not only with the Jews, but all those who should be ingrafted into that Olive. It is not called the new covenant, because it was as to the substance new, for it was made with Abraham, Genesis 17:7,and with the Jews, 26:17,18, but because it was revealed after a new manner, more fully and particularly, plainly and clearly.Nor was the ceremonial law any part of it, as it was to the Jews, a strict observance of that. It was likewise new in regard of the efficacy of the spirit attending it, in a much fuller and larger manner.


I am not offended by those words Judi. I actually hunger sometimes and thirst and I pray for help to come. I would never send anyone away even if I thought they smelled bad or had no teeth or were not bathed etc etc...And generally, it is the very people who say they need no help, that need it the most! I hope others in this forum read this and understand.

Only a reprobate mind, would "turn" the tables to try and prove a point, without scriptural back up !

WW - you refuse to accept anything, not because you "have" the truth, but because you do not have the truth ! You obviously were hurt by what Selah said, that she wanted to "help" you understand. So you in your hurt state of mind, turned the table, so you could make her see how it might hurt her. < That is not love WW !!

If you have the truth, then defend it. Stop going "after the poster" ! At the very least Selah gave you scriptural reference for her thoughts. Now show her where she is wrong, or declare that she is correct. But stop being hurt, and then try turning everything around , "just" to hurt the other poster !

IN Christ - M M

Actually, I wasn't hurt at all. I realize that neither of you yet understand the depth of that scripture.

Also I would ask....how was what I wrote in any way offensive or hurtful to her when it was simply what she herself had written. Unless, of course, she meant it to be hurtful?




I am glad you are not offended.

Some of the verses I like from Jeremiah 30 and 31

Jer 30:11 For I am with thee, saith Jehovah, to save thee: for I will make a FULL end of ALL the nations whither I have scattered thee, but I will not make a full end of thee; but I will correct thee in measure, and will in no wise leave thee unpunished.



Jer 30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that NONE is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

Jer 30:21 And their prince shall be of THEMselves, and their ruler shall proceed from the MIDst of them; and I will cause him to draw near, and he shall approach unto me: for who is he that hath had boldness to approach unto me? saith Jehovah.

(Unlike Obama? )

Jer 30:24 The fierce anger of Jehovah shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the intents of his heart:
in the Latter days ye shall understand it. Hmmm, so, they will understand something they didn't before. Very cool!

Jer 31:12 And they shall come and sing in the height of Zion, and shall flow unto the goodness of Jehovah, to the grain, and to the new wine, and to the oil, and to the young of the flock and of the herd: and their soul shall be as a watered garden; and they shall not sorrow any more at ALL.

Sounds good to me!

Jer 31:34 and they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know Jehovah; for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith Jehovah: for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin will I remember No more.

Rippin'!

all that good news deserves a bump

"Some of us will be taken captive".

The Most industrialised countries, North America and Europe, represent about 700 million people or 10% of the world's population.

In every other country in the world about 90% are already taking us captive for martyredom and persecution.

I don't think we need to wait that it happens on our shores for the trib to break out and be "officially under way", as it is already ongoing in the world.

good point.....