Greetings to all,

These questions need to be asked time and again.
On the one hand we have the universal priesthood of all believers in Christ, where all seem to be qualified, one as much as the other....On the other hand we are warned to not have many teachers, as these will receive a harder judgment.

Is there training in the school of Christ outside formal education (as in bible school)...or does God only recognize approved man approved colleges? Why did Christ choose the unlearned for the most part?

Have we not suffered much through false teaching by half-baked, self appointed preachers? Have we not also been brought to utter confusion through the professional clergy and their doctrine of compromise with the world?

What does strange fire mean in todays church?

The question then remains...who is qualified to preach and teach?

What say you?

John

I would say that the same requirements of the early church are applicable today, in regard to who is qualified(for the instruction within the body called the church). What were the requirements for the early church leaders?

I know what they are, but I am asking the question anyway.

In His Love,
Suzanne

well it depends adullam all the disciples were unlearned except paul he was educated he also went away for three years some say 5 yrs i see it was 3 years after his conversion

as i dug up on the disciples christ hand picked they were all unlearned adullam and he taught them well jesus was patient he encouraged them he did not want the disciples sticking to the traditions of man or taking on the doctrines the pharisees and the elders and the chief priests and the judaizers were holding on to

he did not even hold on to ther doctrines his message was from the heart and very basic straight forward you can say


i too am being raised i am not walking into it due to my fiancee being a pastor she told me when god called her he put the right people around her who were ther for her who encouraged her who believed in her she went to bible collage expenses payed for by her head pastor who is know living in america but comes home when needed my fiancee is in charge when she is living in america my fiancee soon to be my wife is a power full preacher a good evangelist and a women who also sees what i am seeing


my old church would hold training classes for those who want to learn how to be effective preachers what my old pastor would do with some of the leaders is this he would get us to write down what we wanted to preach on then he would go over it with us taking his time encouraging not putting any one down by saying only the educated have the right to preach then we would come in through the week say on a thursday night or friday night and preach the sermon we have written down like on joshua or pauls conversion my pastor and the 4 leaders he had with him would have their note pads and a pen and would listen and when we finished what we wanted to say we would sit down and the pastor and the leaders under him would work close with us

one of the leaders has a fear of talking to men he is going to toast masters hear in australia and what he does he preaches to the ones who are also coming to the classes he is the second assistant pastor when my friend was given the church by the old pastor he did not want the role he had to talk with his wife he was the top head for mental health in new england this is how my old church does it my old pastor believes in encouraging people to develop their gifts god has given them why should it be only a few hand picked who are educated have the degrees and diplomas doing all the leg work we should be encouraging new christians to develop their gifts instead of having new christians who god sends to us keeping a pew warm


i have no education what so ever adullam all i have is life experiance adullam i am unlearned i was in the lower classes in school often in trouble i struggled in school i am not as smart as my sister is adullam she is working under a genral in the army she is his personal secatery has her own home her own car top wage and travels my sister never strugled like i did or was she in the lower classes

my fiancee soon to be my wife works close with me when i am with her she sits with me and helps me she tells me just think of me as a member and she wil go over what i want to bring into the church i am very comfterbal i know god judges us leaders harshly but i am seeing its what he wants for me i ran from this calling since i was young it was prohpesied over me by the three pastors in the church i found my self in when i came out of jail in 1988 and by sevral of the elders

i am having to work on my grammer and on some things my close friends who have known me since i was 18 and the hard part is going to be studying and doing what my teachers in the philippines are going to ask of me the essays i wil have to do them to the way i am being asked this wil happen when my citizen ship is aproved by the philippines goverment i have friends hear in australia who are willing to back me up and meet the cost of the fees i am a 41 i should have what guys get at a young age i wil be going to bible collage just to show i have the peace of paper that wil give me the freedom to preach i know one lady who got her degree at the age of 65 adullam she pastors a big church in the philippines she got this when her husband died god put the right people around her

why should guys like my self put our hopes to the side and accept that god wil never work through us to were we only alow the educated who have a peace of paper stating they are with in their rights to preach the gospel

i know that my certificate i get when i graduate bible collage means nothing its just a certificate showing people that i have the qualifications board members look for


i dont believe in wasting hard earnt money or having any one pay some one so they can acheive their goals

but in todays society pastors who show intrest in leading his flock have to have that diploma adullam


should men like me who have had a hard life be told god wil never work through us should i put my hopes and my hearts desire to the side were i say god only accepts those who are educated will you alow some one like me who is unlearned un educated to preach the gospel to the lost ?


i have also noticed this attitude in this forum too were if you are educated show that you have knowledge you are seen as some one in the league but when it comes to guys like me who have only read the bible you are not seen as in the league i am getting tired of being told i am a babe in christ and i need to learn from thos who disagree with how i see what they see for them selves i am getting angry at the comments left when i should be alowed to say what i feel with out some one saying i am a babe in christ

i have good men around me i have sat under gifted anointed preachers the hunger in me is growing i want the same rights paul had and the disciples had to were i am not being told i am a babe i have a good teacher the holy spirit

i have seen the damage religon has done and i have seen the damage mans own revelation and the doctrines he holds on to has done to the vulnerable who dont use their brain god has given them

i know god wil deal with me if i lead any one astray i know he sees what i do in my own home and i know his spirit searches my heart their is nothing i can keep back or can i hide my hidden sins

i am not as wise as you are adullam or am i advnaced in the gospel as you are i am just a normal man who has had to fight to get to were i am in my walk know adullam i even strugle ussing this computer of mine that was given to me by a brother who is a teacher

hears my question wil you listen to a man like my self who is unlearned who is un educated and has strugled in school to were you say i should put my hearts desire to the side and put the prophetic message that was prophesied over you in 1988 to the side or wil you walk by my side and believe in me and encourage me to fullfil my hearts desire were i am preaching the gospel christ preached with out letting my self hold on to pauls old spirit and the spirit the pharisees were holding onto to wer i just hold on to their doctrines ?

also hear is another question do you accept guys like me who have tattoos to preach the gospel christ preached or do you have to have no tattoos to preach the gospel christ preached and do you have to have a clean record were you have had no fines or been in jail are men like my self who have broken the law been in jail and have tattoos to only alow people who have a degree and have not broken the law and not have been in jail to were they are the only ones who are alowed to preach the gospel i was told i would never have a straight person accept me or have me preach in ther church because of my tattoos i have on me ?


i am being raised from with in why should i prove to some one who is educated has a degree that i too can do what your peace of paper is saying ?

by what i have shared its from the heart when i first got saved i hated the educated i hated being told god wil never use guys like me i ended up hitting a bible collage student who was judging me and saying i should not be encoruaged to use the gifts god has given me i should have the degree he has i found it hard to forgive or let go of the hate and anger i had all my jobs were jobs that most educated guys would not want i felt bad hitting this bible collage student but i told him why i hit him and asked him to forgive me i am in no position to judge or am i judging what you left adullam and i hope members hear accept me as i am were i am not told i am a babe in christ because i dont preach on the old laws or preach on fear or want pauls old spirit or the spirit gods own son saw in the pharisees and in the elders and in the cheif preists and in the scribes and in the judaizers who were saying one must be circumcised one must be moses disciple one must preach on the law and not preach the true gospel gods own son preached i want nothing to do with that spirit or wil i alow it to attach its self to me


Damo

I agree with you, I do not beleive in man approved colleges. Real leaders are chosen by God. The few there are are drounded out by the phonies who became ministers without Gods approvel.



I was in Rochester MN last year while going to the Mayo Clinic. I went through the phones book and found one genuine Pastor who was Luthuren I beleive. I called just about all the churches in the phone book and I remember this one guys had a PHD next to his name and number. Even before I called I knew seeing the man had a PHD he would be cold blooded. Because he is "educated" means he doesn't belive in common sence christianity whcih is lead by love. Anyways I called him and talked to him then he was a snake to me on the phone. He said "so what if your suffering God doesn't have to do anything for you". He basically told me to take it like a man and suffer and died. I can't remember the whole converstation but the man was ann ---. I think I said something to him like "you damb unloving coldblooded basterd before are conversation ended.


There was a female Pastor in a neihboring town who told me that God was trying to tell me something else then delivering me. So I told her "oh you mean Gods trying to tell me I'm never going to do anything for you suffer an die". She did not like when I said this as I was pointing out the fact to her that she didn't give a crap.


Another Pastor claimed God has already answered me that he will never do anything to help me. So he was saying the same thing "suffer and die".



There were a few decent out of the countless of phonies. One offered me to use his van if I needed his to lay down for the trip to Rochester. Another let me speak infront of his church when my home town Assemblies of God Church would not allow me to. Another tried calling his Mayo Clinic Dr to see if he could find someone to help me.


As for the rest they did nothing none even tried to ask around if anyone could help me or try to find out any info for me.


The bible does say a bishop is supposed to be blamesless have one wife and he is suppose to keep a stable family and be in control of himself and have patients. He is not supposed to be rude and mouthy or just go give his sermon then collect his paycheck and go home.


There was this Pastor in China who was putting his life on the line to get people from Northa Korea into China. Beleilve it or not as bad as China is, North Korea is even was for Christans then China. Now he was someone who was a real Pastor.

I would say that to an extent we are all called to preach and to share the good news. But the ministry of teacher is something else and there is no point in being learned or knowing the bible if that person is not annointed by the Holy spirit to serve in that capacity.
I went very briefly to bible college part time.
I found it to be a complete waste of time.
I met some Godly people, young and old, from different denominations. But the lectures, which were about biblical ethics, were more about the philosophy of religion than anything else. There was no delving into the truth of the bible. Everything was down to logic. I felt so discouraged that I slunk into depression for a while, as it's discouraging to think of these colleges being used to promote liberal christianity.

It's a shame that for some people, unless you have a degree or diploma, then you are not seen as really knowing the word of God. I think the greatest way to study the word of God is to be reading it and amongst people who are discussing it and looking at how it applies to our lives, then doing it. Like on this forum; I come on and get interested in a subject and I can read how different people are interpreting the issue and look at what the scriptures say. I think that I have learnt more from this forum than at bible classes / groups and sermons put together.

I would also like to add that there is a God instituted relationship between the old and young in Christ... the new should be learning and supported by the old (not necessarily age, this is more about maturity) and the old should also be respected and encouraged to share, the younger ones having teachable spirits and being willing to learn and the older ones also realising that they can in turn learn from the younger ones.

Jeff, maybe those people were not phonies. Our Saviour suffered and died and only those who are called and chosen and faithful can follow after Him, and following after Him means also that you may suffer and die too. That is a great honour. He did not suffer and die in vain. And there are very few, I mean very few people today that would lay down their lives for their friends, much less their enemies. Some folks are willing to go about a 1/4 of the way, some a 1/2, but only few will go all the way...
Blessings!

Mar 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;



1Co 4:20 For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.

1Co 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Thats right John! people have suffered through the self-appointed and the organizational appointed as well.

On the one hand you have novices who are saved for a year or two after having zero knowledge and they are already well-seasoned mature believers who are apt to teach, when the preacher said "keep thy foot when thou goest into the house of God and be ready to hear than to offer the sacrifice of fools."

Watch out for the the ones who always have something to say on every subject, have long drawn out contentions and debates, and have the nature of a cactus,You are listening to a prating fool!

Then you have the vagabonds, drifters, and rebels teaching things that they have intruded into and have little knowledge of and then on the other hand you have the assembly line gospel of the demon-nations who have a "form" of Godliness, but deny the power thereof. The word tells us to turn away from those. Why would God tell us to do that?
Well, the answer is simple. Do you think God would tell us to do something he hasn't done himself already?

I guess the question would be better asked: If a man was decieved would he know it?

Or...can a man hear or see what he can't hear or see? In other words, if he isn't aware of it being there does he think he is blind or deaf or that the other one is seeing and hearing things not there?

To answer your question..."If a man was deceived would he know it?" I would say yes, sometimes. I think that the truth can be shown to some and they actually see the truth but won't allow it, won't admit it, won't change because of pride and ego. Others simply don't know they are deceived. Those are the ones God protects by not allowing them to see and hear.

This is the conversation l was having with my oldest son last night on the telephone. He's about to take finals in his last semester of four years and the reality of the four years has been hitting home.

He's discouraged because on the one hand because he sees many of the things you all have pointed out in above posts and yet on the other he sees the necessity.

I tried to encourage him by telling him that some things you just have to experience.

He said when he first started to realize these things he began to hate school..to hate the idea of institutionalized Christianity and other attachments...He also said that God has really been working with him and he has come to the place where he can really love the people who are entangled in a negative way with this and really wants to help..

He also told me he's had a spiritual growth spurt..Not only that but God has been bringing people into his life that are peer level and they are going to form a group. He also told me that some of the professors he knows have also changed so much for the better in the last 2 years it's amazing. He said he feels in awe to talk to them..almost like they are apostles.

Don't lose hope friends. ..God is still working. Even in our institutions. He exposes what he wants and covers what he wants. All for his purposes and for the continued growth of his people..

I told my son he needed to understand a lot of things that he could have never known without this experience... and to take heart. God will use it with him. Plus he needed disciplined study, AND he needed male mentors. God has brought awesome men along side of him.

He's about to graduate and get married...He said he feels like he is about to be thrown into the ocean.
(only l just misspelled it oven)..my poor baby...

Have you ever been deceived?...you keep using the word THEY as well as everyone on this thread...I can't help but see the PIOUS behavior here, are you and I excluded from this trial? Jesus said we will all drink from HIS cup, if we pick up our Cross and follow him.

Who is qualified to preach the Gospel? Those that God called into the office. Those that He sends through the prepation "wilderness" to learn to hear HIS voice and hear HIS truth...

Case in point: Moses was exiled from his comfort zone and sent into the desert with a staff. He broke him to nothing. He gave him a family, then HE called him into HIS service.

Man made colleges only teach man, man's ways.....

There is also a question on here asking, "If man was deceived would he know it?" John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. AND Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

So, if God decides a man is to be deceived that is HIS business....

I like this list of qualifications for being a minister in the wider church.

To preach the gospel is not child's play. It requires an extensive knowledge of the word, long training in the school of Christ, experiential wisdom, and a special endowment from on high. An often neglected pre-requisite for a teacher of the kingdom is to have met Jesus Christ personally and walk in the Spiritual realm.

Bible school, I find to be the wrong way to attain biblical knowledge, as the same mistakes concerning religiousity are passed down from generation to generation. We need divine input. Doesn't the scriptures say...that no man need teach you for the Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth? This, then is a vital ingredient for real growth in the Spirit.

One can be a Christian all their life and never advance in the faith...due to entrenched carnal reasonings. However, if we surrender to God on a daily basis, remarkable progress can be made and with this much divine insight and understanding. Revelation from God and illumination of the Spirit mark the future leaders in the church, in my view. Without this quickened faith, it is impossible to please God.

<><

John

Yes Pamela this is true.

ISOLATION...hurts

.happens when the LORD chastises the one's he loves...and who does God love?

For God so loved the WORLD, that he sent his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in HIM shall not perish, but have everlasting life.

Jesus had to go also into the desert.

Jesus had to flee from the crowd and go up to the mountain to pray, to regain strength, given by his Father.

Yes he said there where too many of them.

Crowds pushing at him, surrounding on ever side, pressuring him to give them what they wanted....yet
he told them if they only would receive HIM, that his mercy and grace would heal them.

so pride remained, and they, us, we turned our backs rather than admit we Need you Jesus. You are our LORD and deliverer.

we honor you, let us love one another as you have loved us...let this hatred stop, and the accusing of our brethren.

And the Devil is in the air, accusing and devouring, wearing on the Saints...just like Jesus was...but he OVERCAME...HE prayed and waited upon HIS FATHER, whose love is stronger than Death.

When Jesus poured out his heart in love...he was rejected.

When Jesus reproved the Pharasees in love...he was rejected.

When Jesus spoke the Truth, the crowd and the religious leaders felt threatened, for they did not want to admit that their pride had blinded them, just like any of us when a true friend may try to help us to understand to look within ourselves and reach out to God, laying it all down at the foot of the Cross, where there unfailing, mercy and Grace of our Abba lays his gifts to us.

Yes he LOVED much, and was forsaken.

God we are so sorry...we repent and give you Glory.

But put not your FAITH IN YOUR FAITH.....without LOVE Faith is dead.

Every good and perfect gift, comes down from the Father of Lights, of which there is NO VARIBLENESS OF TURNING.

every time we try to turn, HE DRAWS US BACK TO HIM...how wonderful our LORD JESUS IS.

not by might, nor by power, but by the spirit.

yes by HIS SPIRIT he continues to mold this broken vessel...

GIVE HIM PRAISE JESUS IS LORD

Greetings John....I just don't know if what you have written is due to a language barrier because I do beleive we are from different parts of the world.

But I have to completely disagree with some of what you have written regarding being qualified to preach the Word.

You said: experiential wisdom We should know what we preach and/or teach BEFORE we preach and/or teach it to be the truth according to HIS REVEALED truth in one who was ordained. This is most certainly not an area to be experimenting you could lead someone astray doing such a thing...

You said: It requires an extensive knowledge of the word: Yes it does require knowledge of His truth...That ONLY comes through seeking HIM with a pure and truthful heart and then HE and only HIM will open that knowledge up to you.

You said: and a special endowment from on high. When someone begins to think of themselves as special, that is the first response from the flesh. The Word teaches us Eph.6:8-9 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.
9And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him. Whether we choose to follow Him we will be judged accordingly or whether we choose a life that leads to damnation we will be judged accordingly.

You said: long training in the school of Christ This is one area I think I know what your referring to, but need to ask. If the long training in the school of Christ is one of seeking Him then yes. But is this is a man made school then no. We can all be book smart but there is not a relationship behind that...Relationship is the key~~

You said:One can be a Christian all their life and never advance in the faith Yes, I completely agree 100% with this statement. The faith of the person is grown by hearing the Word and activiting that Word in their lives. Often times that faith is crushed because of the lack of understanding of trials and tribulations. The "Why God did this happen to me" syndrome is sadly enough sometimes the deal killer. The church is not preaching foundation building truths, they are too busy teaching a deceptive prosperity message of worldly attainment.

Hi Pamela,

Experience and the wisdom that can be obtained thereby is necessary in order to teach others. A novice cannot teach another novice. If one is new to the faith and practice of the faith, how can one counsel or instruct another? It is just one opinion against another. Those who have gone before can help those who walk on what for them is new ground. This is experiential wisdom.

A special endowment from on high doesn't make a disciple special...it equips him or her for a specific task. Call it an anointing. We need the spiritual gifts in the Body in order to truly advance in spiritual things. The bible calls the mature in Christ...spiritual. These live on a heavenly plain and give witness of the kingdom of God by their very lives. Carnal ways are a thing of the past.

I hope this bridges our cultural divide.

<><

John

It merely bends the flesh and hurts the flesh but it soars the spirit. I know...I walked a wilderness path for over 2 years....I can speak of it because I have lived it. It did not crush me in defeat in the area of my relationship with HIM, it built me up in Him even more. Yes, the flesh was not a happy camper but I am better for it. It has taken parts of Pamela out of me and replaced more of Jesus in me.

Though the word ISOLATION is a big one. Being isolated in HIM is a wonderful blessing if one eye's are open enough to understand what is taking place. So for example when God removes those in my life that create stumbling blocks in mine I praise Him all the more. One can speak with such words of grander toward HIM but have a deceptive heart with a malicious plan toward others...I trust God will always remove such people from my life. I have no interest in such relationships. Such plans like that only lead to wastelands. There are those that need a rebuke and some believe that the rebuke is an accusation....That's okay, that is where they are at in their relationship and understanding in HIM....Growth is key~! Relationship is key~!

By their very lives..

like Paul said, to die is Gain...all For Christ's sake...

they laid it all down their very lives...but not of their own strength...but by the Power of God , who IS and WAS and IS coming to strengthen HIS BRIDE. AMEN

Isn't it true, he is always there, just when you think you have lost all hope.


SHALL A WOMEN FORGET her child?

Pamela, yes I feeling the Crunch time...blessings to you all here...God is moving us all for his purpose and Glory.


Blessed are the poor in spirit, for they shall be comforted.

Yes, I have been deceived by man. I include myself in what is being said as I am of the species being discussed. So, the question remains...."if a man was deceived would he know it?" My answer....yes and no because of the above given reasons.

[/quote]
Jeff, maybe those people were not phonies. Our Saviour suffered and died and only those who are called and chosen and faithful can follow after Him, and following after Him means also that you may suffer and die too. That is a great honour. He did not suffer and die in vain. And there are very few, I mean very few people today that would lay down their lives for their friends, much less their enemies. Some folks are willing to go about a 1/4 of the way, some a 1/2, but only few will go all the way...
Blessings!
[/quote]



No, they were phonies because when you show that you can't deal with a person suffering for 2 minuties over the phone because your worth "there time", there phonies. They were not the ones suffering yet they had no patients with me. Why in the hell would a genuine chritians Pastor delcare Gods never going to do anything when they haven't spoken to God? Tell me are would you declare "Jeff God will never deliver you show you might as well acecpt it and died"?

Now when the prophet Samuel told Saul they he would be with him the next day he spoke true because Israel lost the battle they were in. Sauls sons were killed just as Samuel had said and then Saul having an arrow in himself killed himself to avoid being torured by the enemy. Now a Samuel was man who had contact with God. So knew excactly what to say to Saul.


These pastors have no belief at all so by there gut assumption they say "Gods not going to do anything". Yet they have not gotten it strait from Gods own mouth so who are they to say such sick things? Thats why I have asked many of them "did God say this to you"? Then they never answer me.


So tell me do you go around telling people God wants them to suffer and died?

Only you Adullam. Lol.

I know who is NOT qualified for this day and time:

Ezekiel 13

1 The word of the Lord came to me: 2 "Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel who are now prophesying. Say to those who prophesy out of their own imagination: 'Hear the word of the Lord! 3 This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Woe to the foolish prophets who follow their own spirit and have seen nothing! 4 Your prophets, O Israel, are like jackals among ruins. 5 You have not gone up to the breaks in the wall to repair it for the house of Israel so that it will stand firm in the battle on the day of the Lord. 6 Their visions are false and their divinations a lie. They say, "The Lord declares," when the Lord has not sent them; yet they expect their words to be fulfilled. 7 Have you not seen false visions and uttered lying divinations when you say, "The Lord declares," though I have not spoken? 8 "'Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: Because of your false words and lying visions, I am against you, declares the Sovereign Lord. 9 My hand will be against the prophets who see false visions and utter lying divinations. They will not belong to the council of my people or be listed in the records of the house of Israel, nor will they enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Sovereign Lord.

10 "'Because they lead my people astray, saying, "Peace," when there is no peace, and because, when a flimsy wall is built, they cover it with whitewash, 11 therefore tell those who cover it with whitewash that it is going to fall. Rain will come in torrents, and I will send hailstones hurtling down, and violent winds will burst forth. 12 When the wall collapses, will people not ask you, "Where is the whitewash you covered it with?" 13 "'Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: In my wrath I will unleash a violent wind, and in my anger hailstones and torrents of rain will fall with destructive fury. 14 I will tear down the wall you have covered with whitewash and will level it to the ground so that its foundation will be laid bare. When it falls, you will be destroyed in it; and you will know that I am the Lord. 15 So I will spend my wrath against the wall and against those who covered it with whitewash. I will say to you, "The wall is gone and so are those who whitewashed it, 16 those prophets of Israel who prophesied to Jerusalem and saw visions of peace for her when there was no peace, declares the Sovereign Lord.'"


See also Matt:7:21-29

And the people will be held equally accountable for listening to the false prophets.

In His Love,
Suzanne

That is truth, a babe in Christ cannot teach another babe in Christ. Opinions should be left at the door, because one's best guess, which is what an opinion is, has no room in TRUTH according to God's word. We cannot preach or teach opinions.

I just can't agree on the word your using when you state "experimental wisdom." I cannot see God sending us through experiements. I guess it may be just the "across oceans" understandings...

Yes, specific callings but not one higher than the other. Not one more special than the other...Yes, the Body of Christ must activate the gifts and callings in their lives but it's focused on those things that are lost in the world for the purpose of salvation and God's glory. No other purpose. I think it is the words you are using..You say spiritual plain...I say spiritual understanding...

I believe we are in the same ball park here though...

It is the Lord who qualifies His preachers and teachers .... no one else can do this

He alone knows who they are

Fewer and fewer as the world moves toward the time of the end

You may or may not find one .... better know your Bible for sure .... this is possible

But there will be increasing numbers of those who will come in His name and will deceive many

He has said this

then should the same qualifications apply hear to on line christian forums were if you want to preach see your self as a teacher you have to say be a member for 10 yrs and after the 10yrs is over if you see your self as a teacher preacher

you need to show or prove to us who you or me have no face contac with before you can bring in what you want to teach hear

god personally has to say to us all who belong to diffrent denominations we can trust what you want to teach on or what you want to preach on

should the moderators and the forums owner be asking those who see them selves as teachers and preachers for your qulifications with sevral character reffrences sent to them attatched with your pastors personal letter were your pastor tells the forums owner and the moderators working close with the owner a little bit about you like sharers your strengths your weaknesses then states what areas you still need to work on ?

is this not how it works in the real world ?


i have just passed my two week security course i did hear in canberra i have the certificate and i have the full support of my two trainers who train potential security guards

before i am accepted and alowed to work as a security guard i had to get an Australian fedral police check done on me this took 2 months the police cheks normaly take 4 weeks but i had to send the origonal application of again due to the fees for police checks to be done off again with the right fee being asked

i just got my Australian fedral police check back this came on the 18th of nov 2008

friday 21st of nov 2008 i went to the Department of fair trading hear in canberra had to fill out another application and attatch what was asked of me like my Australian citizen ship my pass port and my certificate showing that i have passed with the Australian fedral police check that had all my crimes i committed from a young age and the recent one which was an apprehended violence order this hapend in 2000 the officer worker for department of fair trading who stamped my application took the application with the Australian fedral police check attached to the main guy who issues the security licences in canberra i was told to sit and weight they both looked at me looked at the police check looked at me again and looked again at the police check he sent her over to me and she asked me a question i new what they were going over and why he sent her their were other people weighting to be seen and one guy sitting next to me talking to the other staff member working for department of fair trading

she asked this is the one that we want to know about i said why the apprehended violence order was put on me i said to her to tell him i nearly killed a drug dealer and he put this apprehended violence order on me to stop me from coming to his home and finishing of what developed in the main street i told her i am a christian i said i can get character reffrences plus 4 pastors who know me can also attatch a personal letter

i said to her this happend in 2000 i was going through a divorce my mate who picked me up drove my car with my personal stufff to boggabri stole 4 plants from this drug dealer he found my mate took him out side and grabbed him by the throat he saw me let my mate go and decided to pick on me i told her i let all my anger and everything i was holding on to on him i said if it was not for god stopping me i would not be hear applying for my licence i said if you need to know anything or want to talk to the police officer who also is a close frirend and knows me ring me

she went back to the dude who handles and issues all the security licences and told him what i had said to her i hate being open and up front but i have had to due to our laws in australia she said he wil look over your aplication and wil send you a letter by the end of the week this wil come before i take of to the philippines

i am not letting the devil whisper in my ears telling me i wil be knocked back i rebuked this and said its not on

under the new legislation that has been introduced in 2000 spent convictions act 2000

no employer can judge guys like my self or prevent us from working in their factorys or what i want to do

you have to have stayed out of trouble for 10 yrs or 5 yrs prove that you are sorry and have learnt from your pass mistakes

if this guy knocks me back because of this one apprehended violence order that was in 2000 the head teacher who does the training courses wil push for a pardon that means the file that the police have on me everything i have done wil be wiped all together he said this is where i need character reffrences a personal letter from some one that knows me which i can have 4 or 5 pastors who know me write a character reffrence and then i also have to plead before the judge why i should be granted a pardon


this is what we do before we alow anyone to lead or preach or teach we want to see how stable they are we want to see if they can do as they are saying lead and teach we want to know their strengths and their weaknesses also we do an australian police check

before anyone can teach or preach they have to build close relationships up with the members

no use preaching or teaching if you have not got a personal relationship developed with the people you are wanting to teach if you see your self as a teacher if you see your self as a pastor you would have had to meet the boards requier ments first

i have done casual jobs while weighting for this police clearnace my fiancee who is a filapino pastor is praying and so are the people who know me and my new church i am settled in is also praying over me

i have one night club wanting to put me on all i need is my photo on a licence saying i am a security guard before they can put me on and alow me to work in their night club

silly how a person has to prove they have changed and today church has become like the world


well any one hear who wants to teach or preach in this forum were are your degrees would you agree to what i have left if say a new rule was to be added ?




Damo

Probably a good idea!

The world never qualifies, but only evaluates

There is a great difference

Only the Lord truly qualifies

Things will go on as they are until He comes and reveals the true and the fake

Those who truly bring the message of the gospel are all at different levels of understanding for the most part and there will be differences of opinion .... but the bottom line will never be compromised by them

By the Lord's grace is one saved through faith in His willingness and ability to keep one for eternity

Nothing else matters

Any other story is false and there are many who come and divert attention from this truth in extremely subtle ways

Actually I said experiential not experimental. Experiential means experience not experiment. Perhaps the closeness in spelling of the two words is causing a misunderstanding.


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John

LOL. That was totally funny man.

Many feel qualified to give answers. I'm just trying to get the questions right!

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John

I believe the Lord Himself calls, equips, and validates His messengers. It is not a "democratic" process, nor an issue of popular opinion.

But throughout the whole entire Bible he sent the disciples forward, into every kind of situation...and there where times they failed.
They bickered of who was the greatest in the kingdom?

which reminds me of this whole thread....LOL don't yah know we all fall short of the glory of God.

and when they bickered of who was the greatest in the Kingdom, the LORD took the little child and showed them
This is the Greatest in the Kingdom of God...

yeppers child like Faith.

and I suppose they where shocked.


don't CHOKE on MEAT, be willing to make it go down with some Milk. when we start thinking we know it all, is when the LORD rebukes us, why because FATHER KNOWS BEST...thank goodness.

yes but when it comes to this forum and the flakes i have picked out who chase after a badge only say you have to be perfect to be accepted by them i saw this when it came to the disciples and how jesus trained them they were not perfect and always were arguing often jesus had to rebuke them but he did it very gentle

i dont see this in this forum i see a lot of pious ones or would be could bees


how do we then who have been deceived once to were we dont alow this to happen again be who christs wants us to be with out chasing after the badge or preaching just the badge make sure this does not happen hear

do i damo have to have high scores in gods word show you guys i am wise show you guys i am knowledgable when it comes to gods word


if i show you i am wise if i show you i have knowledge and know what i am talking about wil you accept what i say to were you see me as a mature christian to were i am not seen as a babe and some one who needs to be taught

everything i know is from reading my bible and sticking to this one verse 1 john 2



1 John 2 English standard version

27 But the anointing that you received from him abides in you and you have no need that any one should teach you But as his anointing teaches you about everything and is true and is no lie just as it has taught you abide in him


do i damo who you cant see but can only read my words abide in what 1 john 2 v 27 is saying or do i damo who does not belong to your denomination you belong to let the forum teachers and forum pastors who want to preach with out having any trust built up or knowing much about them abide by what is being said in this forum denounce what Jesus has done in my life tell my 3 pastors i know in Australia the godly men that god has put around me in my church which is called grace and other men from diffrent denominations that i have built up a good relationship with have real face contac with can go to there homes pick my phone up if i am having a bad hair day or hang out with who know me know what i have been through and tell them i dont need you any more or what jesus has done so far in my life

i have forum teachers and forum pastors who i know nothing about cant see them like i see you guys wanting to teach me wanting to equip me who want me to take the doctrines they hold on to were i am not questioning what they leave but were i am being submissive alow them to rebuke me correct me discipline me how does this work in an online forum were you have no formal face contac but can only see what is said

is this healthy for a young and new christian to be taught by some one he has no real contac with to were the male or female just obey because it says in hebrews


Hebrews 13 English standard version

17 Obey your leaders and submit to them for they are keeping watch over your souls as those who will have to give account let them do this with joy and not with groaning for that would be of no advantage to you


i dont want to de rail what adullam is asking hear in his very own topic but i notice what i am leaving you guys are avoiding to respond its as in your eyes i am not in the same league as you are i am a brother i have been reading the same bible you read since i was 18 yrs old i am 41yrs old i have seen were i went wrong i am sorry for alowing the ways of the world to have its effect in my life in my first marriage i have learnt not to let history repeat its self and i am alert i dont let no one trap me or decieve me

sevral members hear have shown christs spirit and their teaching you can tel its of christ you can see the holy spirit in what they leav in this forum

but the ones who are hear preaching nothing but the badge and wanting me to listen to them i wil have nothing to do with the spirit i see in these unstable christians who have pauls old spirit in them

or should i give up all together adding to audllams topic and let you guys who have wisdom degrees lack knowledge do all the talking and just read with out saying anything that might share light or help some one ?



do i let what you leave rebuke me guide me discipline me to were i take on what hebrews 13 v 17 says and just sit back or do i do what christ taught his disciples were i am being effective in my own church i belong to were i am also being effective in the neighbour hood i live in by steping out in faith and letting his spirit lead me teach me equip me were i am giving the right tools for others to use instead of preaching the badge and bashing them over the head s

how can this happen hear when all i see is your words you leave ?


and what do i do with what i am about to leave


1 John 4 English standard version

1 Beloved do not believe every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they are of god for many false prophets have gone out into the world

and we have false prophets and false teachers and false pastors hear wanting to trap us i am no dummy or am i stupid i might not be in the same league you are in yet i know what to look for when it comes to what 1 john 4 v 1 is saying







Damo

Damo, I kinda of believe that the LORD is preparing us, for when our real enemies come against us. The WORD of the LORD is powerful and quick as a double-edged sword, cutting to the marrow and bone.

I believe many here have good Godly intentions...but what we may tend to think is best is not always the best way to present the WORD, it may not be at the level one is willing to see or hear it and the Devil will truly try to keep us in shackles...we have got to allow the Holy Spirit to move in us, when we let things go and give them to the LORD...He is teaching us tolerance and patience...and chastising us...but still at any stage he also allows to use the least of us for his glory.

And by repeatedly posting things against the Catholic Church and demonizing it is beyond my comprehension why this is allowed...It only causes fear and mistrust...yes we are to warn, but not obsessively CAUSE FEAR...After what just happened to that poor man on the other web-site, I can't see why this is continued to be allowed. It is the very same way Islam has caused Catholics in foreign lands to be attacked.

Jesus is teaching us to leave the battle with him...he already won it, we just need to follow him and like you said, let the Spirit of the LORD guide us.

This is also how the disciples had to be taught...the hard way...like Pamela said, all flesh is being tested right now...cause I believe what Jesus tells us...that NO MAN has left all to follow Christ...but glory to God in the Highest, he will strengthen us , if we continue to trust him.

high wer not alone

yes this is what he has been showing me in australia and yes this is also happening among our members in the philippines

i am sad to to how that young man was able to do what he did to were no one reached out he was wanting to fit in but before he could fit in he had to prove him self to those body builders very sad and i hope they bring in tuffer laws and restriction to were that does not happen again

and what you said about the catholics so true to we should be able to get on as brothers and sisters wer not alone were we build each other up encourage each other look out for each other and be their for some one in real need

every day i am having to die to my flesh i wish ii was as bright as some hear its god who is teaching me its god who equips me and its god who gives me the patience i need just so i can be effective for him

some times i fail but i know when i fail and come to him he forgives me wipes my tears and says go and do it again and dont let history repeat its self

i want more of him and less of man in my life this is were i am at wer not alone i have taken on to much of mans wisdom in the past to were i had no real strong relationship with jesus this is changing i cry out every day i want more of him and les of what i am picking up hear were my focus is on the real jesus to were i am not seeking that badge to be accepted




Damo

The LORD knows your heart dear Damo...blessings to you. seems where all going through the birthing canal... much peace from the LORD to you.

high wer not alone


thank you so much and the same to you and your family and your pastor and to your members in your church i pray the lords blesing on you and everyone close to you i found my self yesterday in tears for no reason and today i am just letting his peace rest over me and i pray we all can get to that place were we just let go of our pride and let him do what he needs to in our lives the disciples had a real good teacher and i wish their were more like gods son among us he is the only true teacher who truely cared showed compassion looked evil straight in the eye rebuked it and gave up his life for us


and this is what i want evident in my life



Damo

No, brother John we do not need a man to teach us. It is the Spirit of Yah that teaches us. The Spirit bears witness with our spirits that we are the sons of God. But we do need men to teach us by his Spirit or he would have not given us "teachers" along with Pastors, Apostles, prophets, and Evangelists for the perfecting of the body. THe Key is as you have said "his Spirit".

I have to laugh because people will say "tongues have ceased" and then they get offended when someone tells
them to shut up then!
It is the Spirit that quickeneth. The flesh profiteth nothing.

Excellent! Teachers who do so by His Spirit. A divine qualification, methinks.

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John

What was the question again? Lol.

Exactly!

LOL. Totally funny dude.



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