THE LAST DAYS IN AMERICA
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Like so many believers in these days, I have found myself thinking a great deal about the end times. There seems to be a general acceptance among Christians that everything in the Scriptures seems to point to the fact that we are seeing the "beginning of birth pains", as Jesus promised. World events, and the prophecies of the Word of God, are coming together before our eyes in an amazing way. Christian bookstores have shelves of books dealing with the hows and whys, and even the whens, of the matter. There certainly seems to be a consensus that there will soon be a new political structure in Europe, from which will come a Leader who will make peace in the Middle East. In later years, there will be a massing of the world's armies in that part of the world, which will precipitate the return of Jesus. In all my reading on this subject, however, I had a growing sense of uneasiness. There was something nagging at the back of my mind, and it wouldn't go away. I often think that Christians are discouraged from addressing many of these nagging issues that afflict us. We seem afraid of facing our questions, preferring to simply ignore anything that seems unsure to us. However, I decided to face up to this particular issue because it seemed to be crucial to an understanding of the days in which we live.
My problem was this: I could accept that the Antichrist was going to rise from the nations of Europe. I could accept a Russian attack on Israel, and the involvement of China, with its enormous military capability. But what I could not understand was that apparent absence of the United States in the entire affair. After all, the US is now the only world empire, the most powerful economic and military force in the world today. As long as the Americans continued to lead the western nations, how could any European leader hope to eclipse the power and authority of the President of the United States? Furthermore, the State of Israel could not exist for long without the financial and military support of the United States, so I could not see how Israel could face an attack from any nation, much less Russia, without the US coming to its defence.
Some people might think that the absence of the US from the Bible accounts raised doubts about the accuracy of the Bible accounts; but that is not so. The Bible is God-breathed and is completely accurate and reliable in every respect. Of the 2,500 prophecies to be found in the pages of Scripture, 2,000 have been fulfilled literally and completely. All the rest have to do with the end times. The Bible is reliable. The only conclusion I could come to was that, either the United States was no longer interested in involving itself in world affairs by that stage in history, or else it was no longer in a position to be involved. In either case, it would require a major calamity to bring about such a state of affairs. The implications were obvious: between now and the return of Jesus, something profound is going to come upon the United States of America. But what might that be? And does Scripture give any help in understanding this?
I have looked at the writings of many of the end-time experts over the past few years. Ironically, most of these are Americans, and there is nowhere in the world where this issue is more popular than in the States. But, aside from Jack Van Impe, I have not found among the leading writers, anyone who tackles the issue of the role the US will play in the last days. That surprised me greatly, until I began to see what Scripture was saying. What I have found may be highly unacceptable to many, especially American Christians. Believers from the US have a very strong attachment to their country, as do all Americans. But if I am right, then American believers desperately need to know, and to respond to what I believe the Lord is saying in Scripture: the United States is the Babylon of the Book of Revelation.
Let's examine the verses which deal with the fall of Babylon the Great in Revelation and see how these words apply to the US in our day. The first mention is in Rev. 14.8, where an angel cries out that Babylon the Great has fallen, "which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries". But it is not until chapters 17 and 18 that the full details of the fall are given. Beginning in Chapter 17, then, we find in verse 1 a reference to a woman, a prostitute who sits on many waters. She is found in a desert, sitting on a scarlet beast which was covered with blasphemies and with seven heads and ten horns. [v. 3] The woman is dressed in purple and scarlet, the symbolic colours of empire and rulership, and is glittering with gold and jewels. She holds a golden cup full of abominable things and the filth of her adulteries [v. 4]. The title written on her forehead was:
Mystery
Babylon the Great
The Mother of Prostitutes
And of the Abominations of the Earth
In verse 15 we are told that the waters on which the woman sits "are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages". This implies that Babylon incorporates in herself a multi-ethnic and multicultural diversity of peoples. Verse 18 tells us that the woman "is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth", a political entity with superpower status.
In the past, some Bible commentators have held that the woman stands for the old Rome, centre of the greatest empire the world had known in the days Revelation was written. This view was supported by the fact that Peter refers to Rome as Babylon in his first letter [1 Peter 5.13]. However, the context in Revelation is the end times, and the Roman Empire has long since fallen and disappeared. Others agreed that the woman was Rome, but stood for the Roman Catholic Church. That, they said, is the great prostitute which has filled the earth with the maddening wine of her adulteries. More recently, modern commentators have held that Babylon the Great is the coming world religion that is described elsewhere in Revelation. However, both of these interpretations fail to account for other aspects of Babylon described in chapter 18.
This chapter opens with the declaration that Babylon the Great has fallen. One would think that the fall of Babylon would lead to great rejoicing; but the rest of the chapter describes the universal grieving that follows her fall. Why does the world mourn the fall of the great prostitute? Because their economies depended entirely on her. Verses 11 to 20 describe how the merchants of the earth, the traders, haulers and carriers, will mourn over the lost markets, the centre of economic life on the planet. It was because of her strong economy that the rest of the world profited: "all who had ships on the sea became rich through her wealth" [18.19] Babylon is not simply a religious power, it is the dominant economic power on the planet. Does this description fit the Catholic Church, or any church? "Your merchants were the world's great men" [18.23]
The power of Babylon extended far beyond the normal parameters of business, however. The list of things traded there included, not only material goods, minerals, livestock and vehicles, but also the "bodies and souls of men" [18.12- 13]. Not only were her merchants the great men of the world, but "By your magic spell all the nations were led astray" [18.23] What could this magic spell be? What influence could one nation have that would so affect the rest of the nations of the world? Since the end of World War Two, the United States has managed to dominate the world's cultural and social life. People of all nations watch American movies, American TV shows. They go to Macdonald's, drink Coke and Pepsi, wear Levi's and eat burgers and pizza. In Europe and Asia, anything that is labelled "American-style" has added attraction for people, especially young people. It is called "Cocacolonization", and "McCulture". This process is destroying national and regional identities and cultures, appealing to the lowest common denominator. Hollywood and teh TV networks are influencing the minds of millions of people throughout the world, impressing on them the values and attitudes of the US. Commercialism, capitalism, a gun culture, arrogance. The really great values America has held to in the past, and less so today, are not praised in these media. Fairness, equality, toleration and honesty are not the values which America respresents to the world any longer.
Is there another nation on earth that fits the description of Babylon? Is there another political, cultural world power, consisting of people from a diversity of linguistic and ethnic backgrounds, that dictates the world's economic and cultural destiny? If the US is not Babylon, where is? If Babylon stands for another nation, which rises to such universal dominance in economic and cultural areas, what will happen to the US? If we are in the Last Days, and if we expect to see the Lord's return in the next years, or decades, then we must accept that only the United States of America can fulfill the role assigned to Babylon the Great in the Scriptures.
The most obvious objection to this theory is that the US has traditionally identified itself with God's people. Doesn't the Constitution of the United States specifically refer to it as "one nation under God"? Do not the words "In God we trust" appear on coins and currency? Has not the US been known through its history as a "God-fearing" country. What of the Bible-belt? What of the myriad television and radio ministries, the churches and Bible colleges? What of the very high percentage of Americans who claim to be born again, church-going Christians? How can this nation be Babylon? Ironically, these arguments only argue in favour of Babylon being the US! Because, in Revelation 17 and 18, Babylon is condemned for adultery. In other words, Babylon is a nation that by rights belongs to God. In 17.2-3, the full story is told:
Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!
She has become a home for demons and a haunt for every evil spirit,
a haunt for every unclean and detestable bird.
For all the nations of the earth have drunk the maddening wine of her adulteries.
The kings of the earth committed adultery with her,
and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries.
The woman was called a prostitute, because she sold what rightly belonged to another for profit. Babylon has become a home for demons, meaning it wasn't a home for demons before. The United States of America was founded by God-fearing men and women. For decades, the main ethos of the nation was based on the Bible. A great civil war was fought, in part, for principles of human equality and value. Honour was paid to biblical values and principles, and God was honoured in schools, homes and government.
But that changed. As the nation grew in wealth and power, so it began to move away from its own ideals. It went from Mr. Smith Goes to Washington to All the President's Men. It became the centre for pornography, the focus of the world's drug trade. It became a place of murder, where millions of unborn children were butchered in ways that would not be used against animals. A place where animals were treated better than the poor, billions of dollars spent on feeding and grooming dogs and cats, while millions of people went hungry and sick. Millions of dollars to make movies and TV shows, but not enough to provide health care for the poor and elderly. Fear came to dictate life: fear of outsiders expressed in wars and McCarthyism. Fear of neighbours, expressed in high murder rates and a gun culture unknown anywhere else in the 'civilised' world. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness contained the seeds of selfcentredness, greed, lust, materialism and every kind of religious heresy. Out of the US came the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science and the New Age movement. Americans have become known around the world as arrogant, ignorant of other cultures and traditions, and dangerous, imposing their values and culture for the sake of a dollar. It has become a nation where children murder other children, where parents kill their children. Most importantly, it is a nation that does not realise its danger: it remains convinced of its own righteousness, that its way is the best way. This is not the nation of the Pilgrims. It is not a nation under God. But its sin is that it claims to be under God, and acts in God's name. It uses God as an excuse for its own arrogance and violence, claiming that only the righteous US has the right to impose order and values on the rest of the world.
I had found one accusation made against Babylon hard to understand in the context of the United States. Babylon, according to Revelation 17.6, was "drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus". That did not seem to apply to the US. After all, when had America ever persecuted Christians, much less got "drunk with the blood of the saints"? Then I looked again at the Christians in the US, and I realised that they were, in fact, bleeding. An attack was being made on the gospel of Jesus Christ in the US. Not in the way you might think: by left-wing liberals outlawing prayer in the schools; not by scientists teaching evolution instead of creation. All of this was happening, and would add to the list of sins which made Babylon what it was. But the real attack on the gospel was coming from the Christians themselves!
Remember the accusation made against Babylon: adultery. God's people were at the root of Babylon's sin. Other nations shared the sins of unbelievers, but in the US it was the Christians who turned their nation into Babylon. The situation is similar to that of Israel at the time of Jesus. Israel, too, was accused of adultery, again and again. They mixed God's ways with the ways of the surrounding nations, allowing into their lives things which were not right. By the time Messiah arrived, they had become so blind to their own adultery, they could no longer see the truth, and they crucified the one for whom they had been waiting.
The United States is guilty of adultery also. The church has mixed the ways of the world with the ways of God, and no longer see it. Material wealth, arrogance, a belief that they are the natural leaders in the world, has led the Christians to adopt much of the idolatry that lies at the heart of the United States. Christians have adopted secular America's religion: patriotism. They take the symbols of the world, and bring them into the church. They swear allegiance to flags and nations, to worldly ideologies and worldly principles. They make allegiance to the US of more importance than allegiance to the gospel. No longer are they the salt and the light, they are an essential part of Babylon. The most extreme supporters of Babylon ally themselves with the Christian churches, waving the flag and preaching the superiority of the American way of life. But America is a nation of the world - not the kingdom of God. The Ameican flag, and even the American Constitution, are products and symbols of the World. Look again at what the Scriptures say:
Do not love the world, or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For everything in the world - the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does - comes not from the Father but from the world. [1 John 2.15-16]
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred towards God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God. [James 4.4]
American patriotism is probably the clearest example of this love for the world today. It is triumphalist, believing in the superiority of "the American way". Boasting about what a man has and does is at the centre of American life. "My country - right or wrong" is a belief that puts love of the world above the ways of God and has led to killing, wars, hatred and all kinds of evil. Ironically, it has also led to a serious internal threat to the security of the US. The men convicted of the Oklahoma City bombing represented a fast-growing right-wing movement which identifies itself with traditional Christianity. Although it is far from the gospel of Jesus, this movement seeks a return to the "good old days" when biblical standards were more accepted in America. These people fear and hate foreigners, ethnic groups other than their own, and even the American Government. When these people kill and spread their hatred and paranoia, they degrade the gospel, they bring Christianity into disrepute throughout the world.
Even more damaging to the honour of God in the world has been the preaching of evangelists on TV. They make the gospel a laughing-stock by being so blatantly greedy, money-hungry and false. They come across like the old con-men who sold snake oil in the past. No matter how sincere they may be, no matter how much they may honestly believe they are serving God, they preach materialism and American patriotism, claiming that their nation is God-fearing and true to the gospel. But at the same time, they identify themselves with one particular political party, one particular ideology. Yet these parties and ideologies are not Christianity, they are of the world. Babylon has become a haunt for every evil spirit. And this is why: because the Christians have not held themselves apart from the idolatry of America, but have embraced it, and brought it into their places of worship.
Babylon will fall in an hour! There is a judgment coming on Babylon that will suddenly and utterly destroy her. The evil spiritual powers which have raised her up for their own purposes, will turn on her and destroy her:
The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose...[Rev. 17.16- 17]
What could possibly destroy the US in a single hour? Sudden and complete destruction by fire, eating her flesh and leaving her naked, will come upon Babylon as God's judgment on her adulteries.
Woe! Woe, O great city, O Babylon, city of power! In one hour your doom has come! [Rev. 18.10]
Heaven will rejoice over the fall of Babylon, for it will come as a punishment for the way it has treated the saints and apostles and prophets [Rev. 18.20]. On that day, the words of men of God like A.W. Tozer will stand as a witness against the worldly idolaters who chose comfort and luxuries instead of allegiance to the their Lord. Look again at what God's command is to his people in Babylon:
Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues. [Rev. 18.4]
What does all this mean, and what are the believers to do? Should they literally leave the US so as to avoid the nuclear [?] catastrophe that is coming? I think American Christians need to look closely at what they have been giving their allegiance to. The United States is responsible for producing much of the pornography, materialism, occult teaching and deception in the world today. As a nation, it is paranoid, blind, worldly and self-absorbed. This is not how Christians should be, and it is not the kind of nation Christians should feel comfortable swearing allegiance to. No matter what country in which we Christians happen to be living, we are citizens of heaven, owing allegiance only to our King and his Kingdom. No earthly power should come between us and obedience to our God's commands. We should not be using heathen symbols, much less swearing loyalty to them. Come out and be separate. Imagine what a witness it would be to your fellow-countrymen, and to the world, were the true Christians of the United States to stand up for God and deliberately have nothing to do with the evil and worldliness around them. No-one had more reason to be proud of his worldly connections than Paul. He was a Hebrew of the Hebrews. He was also a citizen of the most powerful and civilised empire ever known to that time. Yet he separated himself from both allegiances for the sake of the gospel. He called them "dung", not worth thinking about compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Jesus Christ as his Lord.
Compromise on this issue is deadly. You cannot serve two masters, and when one master is the Lord, the other has to go. You are dead to this world and its ways, and you belong to another. Don't commit adultery with the world, even with the United States of America.
If you disagree with my thinking, please satisfy yourself from Scripture that there is another candidate in the world today for the role of Babylon. If there is, please let me know, I would be very grateful indeed to be put right, if I am in error. But is there is no other candidate, then the US is on the road to complete destruction. It is the duty of all Christians to pray for the people of the US, that they would turn to God before it is too late, and be ready for what is coming. Because it is coming: the Scripture cannot be broken. If you are an American Christian, then nothing is more important right now than finding out the truth of this for yourself. If you are convinced, then you need to spend yourself, and everything you have, to preach the Word, in season and out, to sound a warning cry in the church. Wake up, O sleeper. Rise from the dead, and your God will shine on you.
Full Version: The Last Days In America....?
depressing...can't read
QUOTE(Miki @ Nov 12 2005, 02:28 PM)
depressing...can't read
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[right][snapback]22635[/snapback][/right]
Well I can, I do hope it is coming from somewhere else, this message. I have thought the same thing, but I prayed and fell on my face and told the Lord I am without country, you are my coundtry. And He said there is a mirror image brought by Satan to all God does. The two witnesses he will send will be masked by two on the side of Satan. I have heard someone utter, could we be the evil one and the Muslims the side of good? Have we killed the two when we killed the sons of Saddam, when we kill Ben Laden and his chief? That is how Satan works. The Babylon Satan covets will be masked as another. Whatever God comes up with, Satan will disavow and turn into lies.
I refuse to believe this.
We have so much to be humbling ourselves to an alter for. We have so much to tear our clothes over. But we are not God's Babyon. Spiritually or literally.
It lies between the rivers and will be torn apart and in two peices. There is too much scripture that relates to that land and not ours. I am not being simply American and patriotic, I am far from that I assure you. That no nation will fight without weapons in hand and with an outward presence of the God we serve before us as in the days of old, sickens me. How I wish, just once, we would meet on the battlefield unarmed and with the banner of the Lord our Savior and see how He would still fight for us! We will not. Adn neither will anyone else. "That would be foolish!" they would say. "No weapons indeed."
We are not Babylon. The system of corruption that stems from monetary gain is Babylon. It has no country and it will fall. The Babyon that toys with all kings, including the United States, and kills the Saints to gain money and treasure. They are everywhere and they are a real system within themselves and they will fall. They run the United Nations. They run the World Council. But they are not in any one place.
Yes the war will be fought in a particular place and that place is where the river meet in the Middle East. But Babylon is both physical and spiritual, the city of old AND the powers that be.
You will notice that down through all time, through all world powers through all major upheavels and world events, Babylon the city was ALWAYS retained by the ruling power. There is not a time when it was not important to Satan to have that peice of land. Find all the maps of all the world powers. I can send you the pictures if you like. All retained this particular city. It has both historical and future significance and Satan knows it.
Just as we can say "this" earthquake fits the beginning and that one fits as well, all countries can be shaped into the Babylon of Revelation. Look at Japan with its idols and finery and silks and paint and fine monestaries and shrines and temples and cities and foods and theater. Our infant killing dims to theirs, I assure you. We are ALL evil. But we are not all Babylon.
leia
Leia,
I agree with you. Babylon to me is that system that has its tentacles in every nation and is trying to bring all of them down. To me it's Satan's kingdom, and it's not limited to one nation, but has its place in all of them. This nation may very well see its share of trials and woes and such, as other nations will, but that will be widespread. You put it so much better than I could, though, and I really don't have much to add to what you said!
D
I agree with you. Babylon to me is that system that has its tentacles in every nation and is trying to bring all of them down. To me it's Satan's kingdom, and it's not limited to one nation, but has its place in all of them. This nation may very well see its share of trials and woes and such, as other nations will, but that will be widespread. You put it so much better than I could, though, and I really don't have much to add to what you said!
D
QUOTE(lovingHIM @ Nov 12 2005, 03:23 PM)
THE LAST DAYS IN AMERICA
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Like so many believers in these days, I have found myself thinking a great deal about the end times. There seems to be a general acceptance among Christians that everything in the Scriptures seems to point to the fact that we are seeing the "beginning of birth pains", as Jesus promised. World events, and the prophecies of the Word of God, are coming together before our eyes in an amazing way. Christian bookstores have shelves of books dealing with the hows and whys, and even the whens, of the matter. There certainly seems to be a consensus that there will soon be a new political structure in Europe, from which will come a Leader who will make peace in the Middle East. In later years, there will be a massing of the world's armies in that part of the world, which will precipitate the return of Jesus. In all my reading on this subject, however, I had a growing sense of uneasiness. There was something nagging at the back of my mind, and it wouldn't go away. I often think that Christians are discouraged from addressing many of these nagging issues that afflict us. We seem afraid of facing our questions, preferring to simply ignore anything that seems unsure to us. However, I decided to face up to this particular issue because it seemed to be crucial to an understanding of the days in which we live.
My problem was this: I could accept that the Antichrist was going to rise from the nations of Europe. I could accept a Russian attack on Israel, and the involvement of China, with its enormous military capability. But what I could not understand was that apparent absence of the United States in the entire affair. After all, the US is now the only world empire, the most powerful economic and military force in the world today. As long as the Americans continued to lead the western nations, how could any European leader hope to eclipse the power and authority of the President of the United States? Furthermore, the State of Israel could not exist for long without the financial and military support of the United States, so I could not see how Israel could face an attack from any nation, much less Russia, without the US coming to its defence.
Some people might think that the absence of the US from the Bible accounts raised doubts about the accuracy of the Bible accounts; but that is not so. The Bible is God-breathed and is completely accurate and reliable in every respect. Of the 2,500 prophecies to be found in the pages of Scripture, 2,000 have been fulfilled literally and completely. All the rest have to do with the end times. The Bible is reliable. The only conclusion I could come to was that, either the United States was no longer interested in involving itself in world affairs by that stage in history, or else it was no longer in a position to be involved. In either case, it would require a major calamity to bring about such a state of affairs. The implications were obvious: between now and the return of Jesus, something profound is going to come upon the United States of America. But what might that be? And does Scripture give any help in understanding this?
I have looked at the writings of many of the end-time experts over the past few years. Ironically, most of these are Americans, and there is nowhere in the world where this issue is more popular than in the States. But, aside from Jack Van Impe, I have not found among the leading writers, anyone who tackles the issue of the role the US will play in the last days. That surprised me greatly, until I began to see what Scripture was saying. What I have found may be highly unacceptable to many, especially American Christians. Believers from the US have a very strong attachment to their country, as do all Americans. But if I am right, then American believers desperately need to know, and to respond to what I believe the Lord is saying in Scripture: the United States is the Babylon of the Book of Revelation.
Let's examine the verses which deal with the fall of Babylon the Great in Revelation and see how these words apply to the US in our day. The first mention is in Rev. 14.8, where an angel cries out that Babylon the Great has fallen, "which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries". But it is not until chapters 17 and 18 that the full details of the fall are given. Beginning in Chapter 17, then, we find in verse 1 a reference to a woman, a prostitute who sits on many waters. She is found in a desert, sitting on a scarlet beast which was covered with blasphemies and with seven heads and ten horns. [v. 3] The woman is dressed in purple and scarlet, the symbolic colours of empire and rulership, and is glittering with gold and jewels. She holds a golden cup full of abominable things and the filth of her adulteries [v. 4]. The title written on her forehead was:
Mystery
Babylon the Great
The Mother of Prostitutes
And of the Abominations of the Earth
In verse 15 we are told that the waters on which the woman sits "are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages". This implies that Babylon incorporates in herself a multi-ethnic and multicultural diversity of peoples. Verse 18 tells us that the woman "is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth", a political entity with superpower status.
In the past, some Bible commentators have held that the woman stands for the old Rome, centre of the greatest empire the world had known in the days Revelation was written. This view was supported by the fact that Peter refers to Rome as Babylon in his first letter [1 Peter 5.13]. However, the context in Revelation is the end times, and the Roman Empire has long since fallen and disappeared. Others agreed that the woman was Rome, but stood for the Roman Catholic Church. That, they said, is the great prostitute which has filled the earth with the maddening wine of her adulteries. More recently, modern commentators have held that Babylon the Great is the coming world religion that is described elsewhere in Revelation. However, both of these interpretations fail to account for other aspects of Babylon described in chapter 18.
This chapter opens with the declaration that Babylon the Great has fallen. One would think that the fall of Babylon would lead to great rejoicing; but the rest of the chapter describes the universal grieving that follows her fall. Why does the world mourn the fall of the great prostitute? Because their economies depended entirely on her. Verses 11 to 20 describe how the merchants of the earth, the traders, haulers and carriers, will mourn over the lost markets, the centre of economic life on the planet. It was because of her strong economy that the rest of the world profited: "all who had ships on the sea became rich through her wealth" [18.19] Babylon is not simply a religious power, it is the dominant economic power on the planet. Does this description fit the Catholic Church, or any church? "Your merchants were the world's great men" [18.23]
The power of Babylon extended far beyond the normal parameters of business, however. The list of things traded there included, not only material goods, minerals, livestock and vehicles, but also the "bodies and souls of men" [18.12- 13]. Not only were her merchants the great men of the world, but "By your magic spell all the nations were led astray" [18.23] What could this magic spell be? What influence could one nation have that would so affect the rest of the nations of the world? Since the end of World War Two, the United States has managed to dominate the world's cultural and social life. People of all nations watch American movies, American TV shows. They go to Macdonald's, drink Coke and Pepsi, wear Levi's and eat burgers and pizza. In Europe and Asia, anything that is labelled "American-style" has added attraction for people, especially young people. It is called "Cocacolonization", and "McCulture". This process is destroying national and regional identities and cultures, appealing to the lowest common denominator. Hollywood and teh TV networks are influencing the minds of millions of people throughout the world, impressing on them the values and attitudes of the US. Commercialism, capitalism, a gun culture, arrogance. The really great values America has held to in the past, and less so today, are not praised in these media. Fairness, equality, toleration and honesty are not the values which America respresents to the world any longer.
Is there another nation on earth that fits the description of Babylon? Is there another political, cultural world power, consisting of people from a diversity of linguistic and ethnic backgrounds, that dictates the world's economic and cultural destiny? If the US is not Babylon, where is? If Babylon stands for another nation, which rises to such universal dominance in economic and cultural areas, what will happen to the US? If we are in the Last Days, and if we expect to see the Lord's return in the next years, or decades, then we must accept that only the United States of America can fulfill the role assigned to Babylon the Great in the Scriptures.
The most obvious objection to this theory is that the US has traditionally identified itself with God's people. Doesn't the Constitution of the United States specifically refer to it as "one nation under God"? Do not the words "In God we trust" appear on coins and currency? Has not the US been known through its history as a "God-fearing" country. What of the Bible-belt? What of the myriad television and radio ministries, the churches and Bible colleges? What of the very high percentage of Americans who claim to be born again, church-going Christians? How can this nation be Babylon? Ironically, these arguments only argue in favour of Babylon being the US! Because, in Revelation 17 and 18, Babylon is condemned for adultery. In other words, Babylon is a nation that by rights belongs to God. In 17.2-3, the full story is told:
Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!
She has become a home for demons and a haunt for every evil spirit,
a haunt for every unclean and detestable bird.
For all the nations of the earth have drunk the maddening wine of her adulteries.
The kings of the earth committed adultery with her,
and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries.
The woman was called a prostitute, because she sold what rightly belonged to another for profit. Babylon has become a home for demons, meaning it wasn't a home for demons before. The United States of America was founded by God-fearing men and women. For decades, the main ethos of the nation was based on the Bible. A great civil war was fought, in part, for principles of human equality and value. Honour was paid to biblical values and principles, and God was honoured in schools, homes and government.
But that changed. As the nation grew in wealth and power, so it began to move away from its own ideals. It went from Mr. Smith Goes to Washington to All the President's Men. It became the centre for pornography, the focus of the world's drug trade. It became a place of murder, where millions of unborn children were butchered in ways that would not be used against animals. A place where animals were treated better than the poor, billions of dollars spent on feeding and grooming dogs and cats, while millions of people went hungry and sick. Millions of dollars to make movies and TV shows, but not enough to provide health care for the poor and elderly. Fear came to dictate life: fear of outsiders expressed in wars and McCarthyism. Fear of neighbours, expressed in high murder rates and a gun culture unknown anywhere else in the 'civilised' world. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness contained the seeds of selfcentredness, greed, lust, materialism and every kind of religious heresy. Out of the US came the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science and the New Age movement. Americans have become known around the world as arrogant, ignorant of other cultures and traditions, and dangerous, imposing their values and culture for the sake of a dollar. It has become a nation where children murder other children, where parents kill their children. Most importantly, it is a nation that does not realise its danger: it remains convinced of its own righteousness, that its way is the best way. This is not the nation of the Pilgrims. It is not a nation under God. But its sin is that it claims to be under God, and acts in God's name. It uses God as an excuse for its own arrogance and violence, claiming that only the righteous US has the right to impose order and values on the rest of the world.
I had found one accusation made against Babylon hard to understand in the context of the United States. Babylon, according to Revelation 17.6, was "drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus". That did not seem to apply to the US. After all, when had America ever persecuted Christians, much less got "drunk with the blood of the saints"? Then I looked again at the Christians in the US, and I realised that they were, in fact, bleeding. An attack was being made on the gospel of Jesus Christ in the US. Not in the way you might think: by left-wing liberals outlawing prayer in the schools; not by scientists teaching evolution instead of creation. All of this was happening, and would add to the list of sins which made Babylon what it was. But the real attack on the gospel was coming from the Christians themselves!
Remember the accusation made against Babylon: adultery. God's people were at the root of Babylon's sin. Other nations shared the sins of unbelievers, but in the US it was the Christians who turned their nation into Babylon. The situation is similar to that of Israel at the time of Jesus. Israel, too, was accused of adultery, again and again. They mixed God's ways with the ways of the surrounding nations, allowing into their lives things which were not right. By the time Messiah arrived, they had become so blind to their own adultery, they could no longer see the truth, and they crucified the one for whom they had been waiting.
The United States is guilty of adultery also. The church has mixed the ways of the world with the ways of God, and no longer see it. Material wealth, arrogance, a belief that they are the natural leaders in the world, has led the Christians to adopt much of the idolatry that lies at the heart of the United States. Christians have adopted secular America's religion: patriotism. They take the symbols of the world, and bring them into the church. They swear allegiance to flags and nations, to worldly ideologies and worldly principles. They make allegiance to the US of more importance than allegiance to the gospel. No longer are they the salt and the light, they are an essential part of Babylon. The most extreme supporters of Babylon ally themselves with the Christian churches, waving the flag and preaching the superiority of the American way of life. But America is a nation of the world - not the kingdom of God. The Ameican flag, and even the American Constitution, are products and symbols of the World. Look again at what the Scriptures say:
Do not love the world, or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For everything in the world - the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does - comes not from the Father but from the world. [1 John 2.15-16]
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred towards God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God. [James 4.4]
American patriotism is probably the clearest example of this love for the world today. It is triumphalist, believing in the superiority of "the American way". Boasting about what a man has and does is at the centre of American life. "My country - right or wrong" is a belief that puts love of the world above the ways of God and has led to killing, wars, hatred and all kinds of evil. Ironically, it has also led to a serious internal threat to the security of the US. The men convicted of the Oklahoma City bombing represented a fast-growing right-wing movement which identifies itself with traditional Christianity. Although it is far from the gospel of Jesus, this movement seeks a return to the "good old days" when biblical standards were more accepted in America. These people fear and hate foreigners, ethnic groups other than their own, and even the American Government. When these people kill and spread their hatred and paranoia, they degrade the gospel, they bring Christianity into disrepute throughout the world.
Even more damaging to the honour of God in the world has been the preaching of evangelists on TV. They make the gospel a laughing-stock by being so blatantly greedy, money-hungry and false. They come across like the old con-men who sold snake oil in the past. No matter how sincere they may be, no matter how much they may honestly believe they are serving God, they preach materialism and American patriotism, claiming that their nation is God-fearing and true to the gospel. But at the same time, they identify themselves with one particular political party, one particular ideology. Yet these parties and ideologies are not Christianity, they are of the world. Babylon has become a haunt for every evil spirit. And this is why: because the Christians have not held themselves apart from the idolatry of America, but have embraced it, and brought it into their places of worship.
Babylon will fall in an hour! There is a judgment coming on Babylon that will suddenly and utterly destroy her. The evil spiritual powers which have raised her up for their own purposes, will turn on her and destroy her:
The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose...[Rev. 17.16- 17]
What could possibly destroy the US in a single hour? Sudden and complete destruction by fire, eating her flesh and leaving her naked, will come upon Babylon as God's judgment on her adulteries.
Woe! Woe, O great city, O Babylon, city of power! In one hour your doom has come! [Rev. 18.10]
Heaven will rejoice over the fall of Babylon, for it will come as a punishment for the way it has treated the saints and apostles and prophets [Rev. 18.20]. On that day, the words of men of God like A.W. Tozer will stand as a witness against the worldly idolaters who chose comfort and luxuries instead of allegiance to the their Lord. Look again at what God's command is to his people in Babylon:
Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues. [Rev. 18.4]
What does all this mean, and what are the believers to do? Should they literally leave the US so as to avoid the nuclear [?] catastrophe that is coming? I think American Christians need to look closely at what they have been giving their allegiance to. The United States is responsible for producing much of the pornography, materialism, occult teaching and deception in the world today. As a nation, it is paranoid, blind, worldly and self-absorbed. This is not how Christians should be, and it is not the kind of nation Christians should feel comfortable swearing allegiance to. No matter what country in which we Christians happen to be living, we are citizens of heaven, owing allegiance only to our King and his Kingdom. No earthly power should come between us and obedience to our God's commands. We should not be using heathen symbols, much less swearing loyalty to them. Come out and be separate. Imagine what a witness it would be to your fellow-countrymen, and to the world, were the true Christians of the United States to stand up for God and deliberately have nothing to do with the evil and worldliness around them. No-one had more reason to be proud of his worldly connections than Paul. He was a Hebrew of the Hebrews. He was also a citizen of the most powerful and civilised empire ever known to that time. Yet he separated himself from both allegiances for the sake of the gospel. He called them "dung", not worth thinking about compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Jesus Christ as his Lord.
Compromise on this issue is deadly. You cannot serve two masters, and when one master is the Lord, the other has to go. You are dead to this world and its ways, and you belong to another. Don't commit adultery with the world, even with the United States of America.
If you disagree with my thinking, please satisfy yourself from Scripture that there is another candidate in the world today for the role of Babylon. If there is, please let me know, I would be very grateful indeed to be put right, if I am in error. But is there is no other candidate, then the US is on the road to complete destruction. It is the duty of all Christians to pray for the people of the US, that they would turn to God before it is too late, and be ready for what is coming. Because it is coming: the Scripture cannot be broken. If you are an American Christian, then nothing is more important right now than finding out the truth of this for yourself. If you are convinced, then you need to spend yourself, and everything you have, to preach the Word, in season and out, to sound a warning cry in the church. Wake up, O sleeper. Rise from the dead, and your God will shine on you.
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Like so many believers in these days, I have found myself thinking a great deal about the end times. There seems to be a general acceptance among Christians that everything in the Scriptures seems to point to the fact that we are seeing the "beginning of birth pains", as Jesus promised. World events, and the prophecies of the Word of God, are coming together before our eyes in an amazing way. Christian bookstores have shelves of books dealing with the hows and whys, and even the whens, of the matter. There certainly seems to be a consensus that there will soon be a new political structure in Europe, from which will come a Leader who will make peace in the Middle East. In later years, there will be a massing of the world's armies in that part of the world, which will precipitate the return of Jesus. In all my reading on this subject, however, I had a growing sense of uneasiness. There was something nagging at the back of my mind, and it wouldn't go away. I often think that Christians are discouraged from addressing many of these nagging issues that afflict us. We seem afraid of facing our questions, preferring to simply ignore anything that seems unsure to us. However, I decided to face up to this particular issue because it seemed to be crucial to an understanding of the days in which we live.
My problem was this: I could accept that the Antichrist was going to rise from the nations of Europe. I could accept a Russian attack on Israel, and the involvement of China, with its enormous military capability. But what I could not understand was that apparent absence of the United States in the entire affair. After all, the US is now the only world empire, the most powerful economic and military force in the world today. As long as the Americans continued to lead the western nations, how could any European leader hope to eclipse the power and authority of the President of the United States? Furthermore, the State of Israel could not exist for long without the financial and military support of the United States, so I could not see how Israel could face an attack from any nation, much less Russia, without the US coming to its defence.
Some people might think that the absence of the US from the Bible accounts raised doubts about the accuracy of the Bible accounts; but that is not so. The Bible is God-breathed and is completely accurate and reliable in every respect. Of the 2,500 prophecies to be found in the pages of Scripture, 2,000 have been fulfilled literally and completely. All the rest have to do with the end times. The Bible is reliable. The only conclusion I could come to was that, either the United States was no longer interested in involving itself in world affairs by that stage in history, or else it was no longer in a position to be involved. In either case, it would require a major calamity to bring about such a state of affairs. The implications were obvious: between now and the return of Jesus, something profound is going to come upon the United States of America. But what might that be? And does Scripture give any help in understanding this?
I have looked at the writings of many of the end-time experts over the past few years. Ironically, most of these are Americans, and there is nowhere in the world where this issue is more popular than in the States. But, aside from Jack Van Impe, I have not found among the leading writers, anyone who tackles the issue of the role the US will play in the last days. That surprised me greatly, until I began to see what Scripture was saying. What I have found may be highly unacceptable to many, especially American Christians. Believers from the US have a very strong attachment to their country, as do all Americans. But if I am right, then American believers desperately need to know, and to respond to what I believe the Lord is saying in Scripture: the United States is the Babylon of the Book of Revelation.
Let's examine the verses which deal with the fall of Babylon the Great in Revelation and see how these words apply to the US in our day. The first mention is in Rev. 14.8, where an angel cries out that Babylon the Great has fallen, "which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries". But it is not until chapters 17 and 18 that the full details of the fall are given. Beginning in Chapter 17, then, we find in verse 1 a reference to a woman, a prostitute who sits on many waters. She is found in a desert, sitting on a scarlet beast which was covered with blasphemies and with seven heads and ten horns. [v. 3] The woman is dressed in purple and scarlet, the symbolic colours of empire and rulership, and is glittering with gold and jewels. She holds a golden cup full of abominable things and the filth of her adulteries [v. 4]. The title written on her forehead was:
Mystery
Babylon the Great
The Mother of Prostitutes
And of the Abominations of the Earth
In verse 15 we are told that the waters on which the woman sits "are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages". This implies that Babylon incorporates in herself a multi-ethnic and multicultural diversity of peoples. Verse 18 tells us that the woman "is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth", a political entity with superpower status.
In the past, some Bible commentators have held that the woman stands for the old Rome, centre of the greatest empire the world had known in the days Revelation was written. This view was supported by the fact that Peter refers to Rome as Babylon in his first letter [1 Peter 5.13]. However, the context in Revelation is the end times, and the Roman Empire has long since fallen and disappeared. Others agreed that the woman was Rome, but stood for the Roman Catholic Church. That, they said, is the great prostitute which has filled the earth with the maddening wine of her adulteries. More recently, modern commentators have held that Babylon the Great is the coming world religion that is described elsewhere in Revelation. However, both of these interpretations fail to account for other aspects of Babylon described in chapter 18.
This chapter opens with the declaration that Babylon the Great has fallen. One would think that the fall of Babylon would lead to great rejoicing; but the rest of the chapter describes the universal grieving that follows her fall. Why does the world mourn the fall of the great prostitute? Because their economies depended entirely on her. Verses 11 to 20 describe how the merchants of the earth, the traders, haulers and carriers, will mourn over the lost markets, the centre of economic life on the planet. It was because of her strong economy that the rest of the world profited: "all who had ships on the sea became rich through her wealth" [18.19] Babylon is not simply a religious power, it is the dominant economic power on the planet. Does this description fit the Catholic Church, or any church? "Your merchants were the world's great men" [18.23]
The power of Babylon extended far beyond the normal parameters of business, however. The list of things traded there included, not only material goods, minerals, livestock and vehicles, but also the "bodies and souls of men" [18.12- 13]. Not only were her merchants the great men of the world, but "By your magic spell all the nations were led astray" [18.23] What could this magic spell be? What influence could one nation have that would so affect the rest of the nations of the world? Since the end of World War Two, the United States has managed to dominate the world's cultural and social life. People of all nations watch American movies, American TV shows. They go to Macdonald's, drink Coke and Pepsi, wear Levi's and eat burgers and pizza. In Europe and Asia, anything that is labelled "American-style" has added attraction for people, especially young people. It is called "Cocacolonization", and "McCulture". This process is destroying national and regional identities and cultures, appealing to the lowest common denominator. Hollywood and teh TV networks are influencing the minds of millions of people throughout the world, impressing on them the values and attitudes of the US. Commercialism, capitalism, a gun culture, arrogance. The really great values America has held to in the past, and less so today, are not praised in these media. Fairness, equality, toleration and honesty are not the values which America respresents to the world any longer.
Is there another nation on earth that fits the description of Babylon? Is there another political, cultural world power, consisting of people from a diversity of linguistic and ethnic backgrounds, that dictates the world's economic and cultural destiny? If the US is not Babylon, where is? If Babylon stands for another nation, which rises to such universal dominance in economic and cultural areas, what will happen to the US? If we are in the Last Days, and if we expect to see the Lord's return in the next years, or decades, then we must accept that only the United States of America can fulfill the role assigned to Babylon the Great in the Scriptures.
The most obvious objection to this theory is that the US has traditionally identified itself with God's people. Doesn't the Constitution of the United States specifically refer to it as "one nation under God"? Do not the words "In God we trust" appear on coins and currency? Has not the US been known through its history as a "God-fearing" country. What of the Bible-belt? What of the myriad television and radio ministries, the churches and Bible colleges? What of the very high percentage of Americans who claim to be born again, church-going Christians? How can this nation be Babylon? Ironically, these arguments only argue in favour of Babylon being the US! Because, in Revelation 17 and 18, Babylon is condemned for adultery. In other words, Babylon is a nation that by rights belongs to God. In 17.2-3, the full story is told:
Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!
She has become a home for demons and a haunt for every evil spirit,
a haunt for every unclean and detestable bird.
For all the nations of the earth have drunk the maddening wine of her adulteries.
The kings of the earth committed adultery with her,
and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries.
The woman was called a prostitute, because she sold what rightly belonged to another for profit. Babylon has become a home for demons, meaning it wasn't a home for demons before. The United States of America was founded by God-fearing men and women. For decades, the main ethos of the nation was based on the Bible. A great civil war was fought, in part, for principles of human equality and value. Honour was paid to biblical values and principles, and God was honoured in schools, homes and government.
But that changed. As the nation grew in wealth and power, so it began to move away from its own ideals. It went from Mr. Smith Goes to Washington to All the President's Men. It became the centre for pornography, the focus of the world's drug trade. It became a place of murder, where millions of unborn children were butchered in ways that would not be used against animals. A place where animals were treated better than the poor, billions of dollars spent on feeding and grooming dogs and cats, while millions of people went hungry and sick. Millions of dollars to make movies and TV shows, but not enough to provide health care for the poor and elderly. Fear came to dictate life: fear of outsiders expressed in wars and McCarthyism. Fear of neighbours, expressed in high murder rates and a gun culture unknown anywhere else in the 'civilised' world. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness contained the seeds of selfcentredness, greed, lust, materialism and every kind of religious heresy. Out of the US came the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science and the New Age movement. Americans have become known around the world as arrogant, ignorant of other cultures and traditions, and dangerous, imposing their values and culture for the sake of a dollar. It has become a nation where children murder other children, where parents kill their children. Most importantly, it is a nation that does not realise its danger: it remains convinced of its own righteousness, that its way is the best way. This is not the nation of the Pilgrims. It is not a nation under God. But its sin is that it claims to be under God, and acts in God's name. It uses God as an excuse for its own arrogance and violence, claiming that only the righteous US has the right to impose order and values on the rest of the world.
I had found one accusation made against Babylon hard to understand in the context of the United States. Babylon, according to Revelation 17.6, was "drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus". That did not seem to apply to the US. After all, when had America ever persecuted Christians, much less got "drunk with the blood of the saints"? Then I looked again at the Christians in the US, and I realised that they were, in fact, bleeding. An attack was being made on the gospel of Jesus Christ in the US. Not in the way you might think: by left-wing liberals outlawing prayer in the schools; not by scientists teaching evolution instead of creation. All of this was happening, and would add to the list of sins which made Babylon what it was. But the real attack on the gospel was coming from the Christians themselves!
Remember the accusation made against Babylon: adultery. God's people were at the root of Babylon's sin. Other nations shared the sins of unbelievers, but in the US it was the Christians who turned their nation into Babylon. The situation is similar to that of Israel at the time of Jesus. Israel, too, was accused of adultery, again and again. They mixed God's ways with the ways of the surrounding nations, allowing into their lives things which were not right. By the time Messiah arrived, they had become so blind to their own adultery, they could no longer see the truth, and they crucified the one for whom they had been waiting.
The United States is guilty of adultery also. The church has mixed the ways of the world with the ways of God, and no longer see it. Material wealth, arrogance, a belief that they are the natural leaders in the world, has led the Christians to adopt much of the idolatry that lies at the heart of the United States. Christians have adopted secular America's religion: patriotism. They take the symbols of the world, and bring them into the church. They swear allegiance to flags and nations, to worldly ideologies and worldly principles. They make allegiance to the US of more importance than allegiance to the gospel. No longer are they the salt and the light, they are an essential part of Babylon. The most extreme supporters of Babylon ally themselves with the Christian churches, waving the flag and preaching the superiority of the American way of life. But America is a nation of the world - not the kingdom of God. The Ameican flag, and even the American Constitution, are products and symbols of the World. Look again at what the Scriptures say:
Do not love the world, or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For everything in the world - the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does - comes not from the Father but from the world. [1 John 2.15-16]
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred towards God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God. [James 4.4]
American patriotism is probably the clearest example of this love for the world today. It is triumphalist, believing in the superiority of "the American way". Boasting about what a man has and does is at the centre of American life. "My country - right or wrong" is a belief that puts love of the world above the ways of God and has led to killing, wars, hatred and all kinds of evil. Ironically, it has also led to a serious internal threat to the security of the US. The men convicted of the Oklahoma City bombing represented a fast-growing right-wing movement which identifies itself with traditional Christianity. Although it is far from the gospel of Jesus, this movement seeks a return to the "good old days" when biblical standards were more accepted in America. These people fear and hate foreigners, ethnic groups other than their own, and even the American Government. When these people kill and spread their hatred and paranoia, they degrade the gospel, they bring Christianity into disrepute throughout the world.
Even more damaging to the honour of God in the world has been the preaching of evangelists on TV. They make the gospel a laughing-stock by being so blatantly greedy, money-hungry and false. They come across like the old con-men who sold snake oil in the past. No matter how sincere they may be, no matter how much they may honestly believe they are serving God, they preach materialism and American patriotism, claiming that their nation is God-fearing and true to the gospel. But at the same time, they identify themselves with one particular political party, one particular ideology. Yet these parties and ideologies are not Christianity, they are of the world. Babylon has become a haunt for every evil spirit. And this is why: because the Christians have not held themselves apart from the idolatry of America, but have embraced it, and brought it into their places of worship.
Babylon will fall in an hour! There is a judgment coming on Babylon that will suddenly and utterly destroy her. The evil spiritual powers which have raised her up for their own purposes, will turn on her and destroy her:
The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose...[Rev. 17.16- 17]
What could possibly destroy the US in a single hour? Sudden and complete destruction by fire, eating her flesh and leaving her naked, will come upon Babylon as God's judgment on her adulteries.
Woe! Woe, O great city, O Babylon, city of power! In one hour your doom has come! [Rev. 18.10]
Heaven will rejoice over the fall of Babylon, for it will come as a punishment for the way it has treated the saints and apostles and prophets [Rev. 18.20]. On that day, the words of men of God like A.W. Tozer will stand as a witness against the worldly idolaters who chose comfort and luxuries instead of allegiance to the their Lord. Look again at what God's command is to his people in Babylon:
Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues. [Rev. 18.4]
What does all this mean, and what are the believers to do? Should they literally leave the US so as to avoid the nuclear [?] catastrophe that is coming? I think American Christians need to look closely at what they have been giving their allegiance to. The United States is responsible for producing much of the pornography, materialism, occult teaching and deception in the world today. As a nation, it is paranoid, blind, worldly and self-absorbed. This is not how Christians should be, and it is not the kind of nation Christians should feel comfortable swearing allegiance to. No matter what country in which we Christians happen to be living, we are citizens of heaven, owing allegiance only to our King and his Kingdom. No earthly power should come between us and obedience to our God's commands. We should not be using heathen symbols, much less swearing loyalty to them. Come out and be separate. Imagine what a witness it would be to your fellow-countrymen, and to the world, were the true Christians of the United States to stand up for God and deliberately have nothing to do with the evil and worldliness around them. No-one had more reason to be proud of his worldly connections than Paul. He was a Hebrew of the Hebrews. He was also a citizen of the most powerful and civilised empire ever known to that time. Yet he separated himself from both allegiances for the sake of the gospel. He called them "dung", not worth thinking about compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Jesus Christ as his Lord.
Compromise on this issue is deadly. You cannot serve two masters, and when one master is the Lord, the other has to go. You are dead to this world and its ways, and you belong to another. Don't commit adultery with the world, even with the United States of America.
If you disagree with my thinking, please satisfy yourself from Scripture that there is another candidate in the world today for the role of Babylon. If there is, please let me know, I would be very grateful indeed to be put right, if I am in error. But is there is no other candidate, then the US is on the road to complete destruction. It is the duty of all Christians to pray for the people of the US, that they would turn to God before it is too late, and be ready for what is coming. Because it is coming: the Scripture cannot be broken. If you are an American Christian, then nothing is more important right now than finding out the truth of this for yourself. If you are convinced, then you need to spend yourself, and everything you have, to preach the Word, in season and out, to sound a warning cry in the church. Wake up, O sleeper. Rise from the dead, and your God will shine on you.
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LovingHim~ What you wrote is totally amazing. Something has happened in my life today that is truely amazing, and one of those things was God I think led me to revelations to read about the Great Babylon. I was scared to type what I thought God was saying. I guess I have always thought that I don't quite understood all this stuff, but this is also how I understood it!!!! Everyone I believe something is truely happening.
Stacy, I didn't write this. I wish I had the time to write things like this but I don't. I read it on another site and wanted to bring it here to see what others thought. I am glad this spoke to you. What happened to day that you are so excited about....please do share with us
QUOTE(lovingHIM @ Nov 12 2005, 03:23 PM)
THE LAST DAYS IN AMERICA
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Like so many believers in these days, I have found myself thinking a great deal about the end times. There seems to be a general acceptance among Christians that everything in the Scriptures seems to point to the fact that we are seeing the "beginning of birth pains", as Jesus promised. World events, and the prophecies of the Word of God, are coming together before our eyes in an amazing way. Christian bookstores have shelves of books dealing with the hows and whys, and even the whens, of the matter. There certainly seems to be a consensus that there will soon be a new political structure in Europe, from which will come a Leader who will make peace in the Middle East. In later years, there will be a massing of the world's armies in that part of the world, which will precipitate the return of Jesus. In all my reading on this subject, however, I had a growing sense of uneasiness. There was something nagging at the back of my mind, and it wouldn't go away. I often think that Christians are discouraged from addressing many of these nagging issues that afflict us. We seem afraid of facing our questions, preferring to simply ignore anything that seems unsure to us. However, I decided to face up to this particular issue because it seemed to be crucial to an understanding of the days in which we live.
My problem was this: I could accept that the Antichrist was going to rise from the nations of Europe. I could accept a Russian attack on Israel, and the involvement of China, with its enormous military capability. But what I could not understand was that apparent absence of the United States in the entire affair. After all, the US is now the only world empire, the most powerful economic and military force in the world today. As long as the Americans continued to lead the western nations, how could any European leader hope to eclipse the power and authority of the President of the United States? Furthermore, the State of Israel could not exist for long without the financial and military support of the United States, so I could not see how Israel could face an attack from any nation, much less Russia, without the US coming to its defence.
Some people might think that the absence of the US from the Bible accounts raised doubts about the accuracy of the Bible accounts; but that is not so. The Bible is God-breathed and is completely accurate and reliable in every respect. Of the 2,500 prophecies to be found in the pages of Scripture, 2,000 have been fulfilled literally and completely. All the rest have to do with the end times. The Bible is reliable. The only conclusion I could come to was that, either the United States was no longer interested in involving itself in world affairs by that stage in history, or else it was no longer in a position to be involved. In either case, it would require a major calamity to bring about such a state of affairs. The implications were obvious: between now and the return of Jesus, something profound is going to come upon the United States of America. But what might that be? And does Scripture give any help in understanding this?
I have looked at the writings of many of the end-time experts over the past few years. Ironically, most of these are Americans, and there is nowhere in the world where this issue is more popular than in the States. But, aside from Jack Van Impe, I have not found among the leading writers, anyone who tackles the issue of the role the US will play in the last days. That surprised me greatly, until I began to see what Scripture was saying. What I have found may be highly unacceptable to many, especially American Christians. Believers from the US have a very strong attachment to their country, as do all Americans. But if I am right, then American believers desperately need to know, and to respond to what I believe the Lord is saying in Scripture: the United States is the Babylon of the Book of Revelation.
Let's examine the verses which deal with the fall of Babylon the Great in Revelation and see how these words apply to the US in our day. The first mention is in Rev. 14.8, where an angel cries out that Babylon the Great has fallen, "which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries". But it is not until chapters 17 and 18 that the full details of the fall are given. Beginning in Chapter 17, then, we find in verse 1 a reference to a woman, a prostitute who sits on many waters. She is found in a desert, sitting on a scarlet beast which was covered with blasphemies and with seven heads and ten horns. [v. 3] The woman is dressed in purple and scarlet, the symbolic colours of empire and rulership, and is glittering with gold and jewels. She holds a golden cup full of abominable things and the filth of her adulteries [v. 4]. The title written on her forehead was:
Mystery
Babylon the Great
The Mother of Prostitutes
And of the Abominations of the Earth
In verse 15 we are told that the waters on which the woman sits "are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages". This implies that Babylon incorporates in herself a multi-ethnic and multicultural diversity of peoples. Verse 18 tells us that the woman "is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth", a political entity with superpower status.
In the past, some Bible commentators have held that the woman stands for the old Rome, centre of the greatest empire the world had known in the days Revelation was written. This view was supported by the fact that Peter refers to Rome as Babylon in his first letter [1 Peter 5.13]. However, the context in Revelation is the end times, and the Roman Empire has long since fallen and disappeared. Others agreed that the woman was Rome, but stood for the Roman Catholic Church. That, they said, is the great prostitute which has filled the earth with the maddening wine of her adulteries. More recently, modern commentators have held that Babylon the Great is the coming world religion that is described elsewhere in Revelation. However, both of these interpretations fail to account for other aspects of Babylon described in chapter 18.
This chapter opens with the declaration that Babylon the Great has fallen. One would think that the fall of Babylon would lead to great rejoicing; but the rest of the chapter describes the universal grieving that follows her fall. Why does the world mourn the fall of the great prostitute? Because their economies depended entirely on her. Verses 11 to 20 describe how the merchants of the earth, the traders, haulers and carriers, will mourn over the lost markets, the centre of economic life on the planet. It was because of her strong economy that the rest of the world profited: "all who had ships on the sea became rich through her wealth" [18.19] Babylon is not simply a religious power, it is the dominant economic power on the planet. Does this description fit the Catholic Church, or any church? "Your merchants were the world's great men" [18.23]
The power of Babylon extended far beyond the normal parameters of business, however. The list of things traded there included, not only material goods, minerals, livestock and vehicles, but also the "bodies and souls of men" [18.12- 13]. Not only were her merchants the great men of the world, but "By your magic spell all the nations were led astray" [18.23] What could this magic spell be? What influence could one nation have that would so affect the rest of the nations of the world? Since the end of World War Two, the United States has managed to dominate the world's cultural and social life. People of all nations watch American movies, American TV shows. They go to Macdonald's, drink Coke and Pepsi, wear Levi's and eat burgers and pizza. In Europe and Asia, anything that is labelled "American-style" has added attraction for people, especially young people. It is called "Cocacolonization", and "McCulture". This process is destroying national and regional identities and cultures, appealing to the lowest common denominator. Hollywood and teh TV networks are influencing the minds of millions of people throughout the world, impressing on them the values and attitudes of the US. Commercialism, capitalism, a gun culture, arrogance. The really great values America has held to in the past, and less so today, are not praised in these media. Fairness, equality, toleration and honesty are not the values which America respresents to the world any longer.
Is there another nation on earth that fits the description of Babylon? Is there another political, cultural world power, consisting of people from a diversity of linguistic and ethnic backgrounds, that dictates the world's economic and cultural destiny? If the US is not Babylon, where is? If Babylon stands for another nation, which rises to such universal dominance in economic and cultural areas, what will happen to the US? If we are in the Last Days, and if we expect to see the Lord's return in the next years, or decades, then we must accept that only the United States of America can fulfill the role assigned to Babylon the Great in the Scriptures.
The most obvious objection to this theory is that the US has traditionally identified itself with God's people. Doesn't the Constitution of the United States specifically refer to it as "one nation under God"? Do not the words "In God we trust" appear on coins and currency? Has not the US been known through its history as a "God-fearing" country. What of the Bible-belt? What of the myriad television and radio ministries, the churches and Bible colleges? What of the very high percentage of Americans who claim to be born again, church-going Christians? How can this nation be Babylon? Ironically, these arguments only argue in favour of Babylon being the US! Because, in Revelation 17 and 18, Babylon is condemned for adultery. In other words, Babylon is a nation that by rights belongs to God. In 17.2-3, the full story is told:
Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!
She has become a home for demons and a haunt for every evil spirit,
a haunt for every unclean and detestable bird.
For all the nations of the earth have drunk the maddening wine of her adulteries.
The kings of the earth committed adultery with her,
and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries.
The woman was called a prostitute, because she sold what rightly belonged to another for profit. Babylon has become a home for demons, meaning it wasn't a home for demons before. The United States of America was founded by God-fearing men and women. For decades, the main ethos of the nation was based on the Bible. A great civil war was fought, in part, for principles of human equality and value. Honour was paid to biblical values and principles, and God was honoured in schools, homes and government.
But that changed. As the nation grew in wealth and power, so it began to move away from its own ideals. It went from Mr. Smith Goes to Washington to All the President's Men. It became the centre for pornography, the focus of the world's drug trade. It became a place of murder, where millions of unborn children were butchered in ways that would not be used against animals. A place where animals were treated better than the poor, billions of dollars spent on feeding and grooming dogs and cats, while millions of people went hungry and sick. Millions of dollars to make movies and TV shows, but not enough to provide health care for the poor and elderly. Fear came to dictate life: fear of outsiders expressed in wars and McCarthyism. Fear of neighbours, expressed in high murder rates and a gun culture unknown anywhere else in the 'civilised' world. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness contained the seeds of selfcentredness, greed, lust, materialism and every kind of religious heresy. Out of the US came the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science and the New Age movement. Americans have become known around the world as arrogant, ignorant of other cultures and traditions, and dangerous, imposing their values and culture for the sake of a dollar. It has become a nation where children murder other children, where parents kill their children. Most importantly, it is a nation that does not realise its danger: it remains convinced of its own righteousness, that its way is the best way. This is not the nation of the Pilgrims. It is not a nation under God. But its sin is that it claims to be under God, and acts in God's name. It uses God as an excuse for its own arrogance and violence, claiming that only the righteous US has the right to impose order and values on the rest of the world.
I had found one accusation made against Babylon hard to understand in the context of the United States. Babylon, according to Revelation 17.6, was "drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus". That did not seem to apply to the US. After all, when had America ever persecuted Christians, much less got "drunk with the blood of the saints"? Then I looked again at the Christians in the US, and I realised that they were, in fact, bleeding. An attack was being made on the gospel of Jesus Christ in the US. Not in the way you might think: by left-wing liberals outlawing prayer in the schools; not by scientists teaching evolution instead of creation. All of this was happening, and would add to the list of sins which made Babylon what it was. But the real attack on the gospel was coming from the Christians themselves!
Remember the accusation made against Babylon: adultery. God's people were at the root of Babylon's sin. Other nations shared the sins of unbelievers, but in the US it was the Christians who turned their nation into Babylon. The situation is similar to that of Israel at the time of Jesus. Israel, too, was accused of adultery, again and again. They mixed God's ways with the ways of the surrounding nations, allowing into their lives things which were not right. By the time Messiah arrived, they had become so blind to their own adultery, they could no longer see the truth, and they crucified the one for whom they had been waiting.
The United States is guilty of adultery also. The church has mixed the ways of the world with the ways of God, and no longer see it. Material wealth, arrogance, a belief that they are the natural leaders in the world, has led the Christians to adopt much of the idolatry that lies at the heart of the United States. Christians have adopted secular America's religion: patriotism. They take the symbols of the world, and bring them into the church. They swear allegiance to flags and nations, to worldly ideologies and worldly principles. They make allegiance to the US of more importance than allegiance to the gospel. No longer are they the salt and the light, they are an essential part of Babylon. The most extreme supporters of Babylon ally themselves with the Christian churches, waving the flag and preaching the superiority of the American way of life. But America is a nation of the world - not the kingdom of God. The Ameican flag, and even the American Constitution, are products and symbols of the World. Look again at what the Scriptures say:
Do not love the world, or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For everything in the world - the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does - comes not from the Father but from the world. [1 John 2.15-16]
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred towards God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God. [James 4.4]
American patriotism is probably the clearest example of this love for the world today. It is triumphalist, believing in the superiority of "the American way". Boasting about what a man has and does is at the centre of American life. "My country - right or wrong" is a belief that puts love of the world above the ways of God and has led to killing, wars, hatred and all kinds of evil. Ironically, it has also led to a serious internal threat to the security of the US. The men convicted of the Oklahoma City bombing represented a fast-growing right-wing movement which identifies itself with traditional Christianity. Although it is far from the gospel of Jesus, this movement seeks a return to the "good old days" when biblical standards were more accepted in America. These people fear and hate foreigners, ethnic groups other than their own, and even the American Government. When these people kill and spread their hatred and paranoia, they degrade the gospel, they bring Christianity into disrepute throughout the world.
Even more damaging to the honour of God in the world has been the preaching of evangelists on TV. They make the gospel a laughing-stock by being so blatantly greedy, money-hungry and false. They come across like the old con-men who sold snake oil in the past. No matter how sincere they may be, no matter how much they may honestly believe they are serving God, they preach materialism and American patriotism, claiming that their nation is God-fearing and true to the gospel. But at the same time, they identify themselves with one particular political party, one particular ideology. Yet these parties and ideologies are not Christianity, they are of the world. Babylon has become a haunt for every evil spirit. And this is why: because the Christians have not held themselves apart from the idolatry of America, but have embraced it, and brought it into their places of worship.
Babylon will fall in an hour! There is a judgment coming on Babylon that will suddenly and utterly destroy her. The evil spiritual powers which have raised her up for their own purposes, will turn on her and destroy her:
The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose...[Rev. 17.16- 17]
What could possibly destroy the US in a single hour? Sudden and complete destruction by fire, eating her flesh and leaving her naked, will come upon Babylon as God's judgment on her adulteries.
Woe! Woe, O great city, O Babylon, city of power! In one hour your doom has come! [Rev. 18.10]
Heaven will rejoice over the fall of Babylon, for it will come as a punishment for the way it has treated the saints and apostles and prophets [Rev. 18.20]. On that day, the words of men of God like A.W. Tozer will stand as a witness against the worldly idolaters who chose comfort and luxuries instead of allegiance to the their Lord. Look again at what God's command is to his people in Babylon:
Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues. [Rev. 18.4]
What does all this mean, and what are the believers to do? Should they literally leave the US so as to avoid the nuclear [?] catastrophe that is coming? I think American Christians need to look closely at what they have been giving their allegiance to. The United States is responsible for producing much of the pornography, materialism, occult teaching and deception in the world today. As a nation, it is paranoid, blind, worldly and self-absorbed. This is not how Christians should be, and it is not the kind of nation Christians should feel comfortable swearing allegiance to. No matter what country in which we Christians happen to be living, we are citizens of heaven, owing allegiance only to our King and his Kingdom. No earthly power should come between us and obedience to our God's commands. We should not be using heathen symbols, much less swearing loyalty to them. Come out and be separate. Imagine what a witness it would be to your fellow-countrymen, and to the world, were the true Christians of the United States to stand up for God and deliberately have nothing to do with the evil and worldliness around them. No-one had more reason to be proud of his worldly connections than Paul. He was a Hebrew of the Hebrews. He was also a citizen of the most powerful and civilised empire ever known to that time. Yet he separated himself from both allegiances for the sake of the gospel. He called them "dung", not worth thinking about compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Jesus Christ as his Lord.
Compromise on this issue is deadly. You cannot serve two masters, and when one master is the Lord, the other has to go. You are dead to this world and its ways, and you belong to another. Don't commit adultery with the world, even with the United States of America.
If you disagree with my thinking, please satisfy yourself from Scripture that there is another candidate in the world today for the role of Babylon. If there is, please let me know, I would be very grateful indeed to be put right, if I am in error. But is there is no other candidate, then the US is on the road to complete destruction. It is the duty of all Christians to pray for the people of the US, that they would turn to God before it is too late, and be ready for what is coming. Because it is coming: the Scripture cannot be broken. If you are an American Christian, then nothing is more important right now than finding out the truth of this for yourself. If you are convinced, then you need to spend yourself, and everything you have, to preach the Word, in season and out, to sound a warning cry in the church. Wake up, O sleeper. Rise from the dead, and your God will shine on you.
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Like so many believers in these days, I have found myself thinking a great deal about the end times. There seems to be a general acceptance among Christians that everything in the Scriptures seems to point to the fact that we are seeing the "beginning of birth pains", as Jesus promised. World events, and the prophecies of the Word of God, are coming together before our eyes in an amazing way. Christian bookstores have shelves of books dealing with the hows and whys, and even the whens, of the matter. There certainly seems to be a consensus that there will soon be a new political structure in Europe, from which will come a Leader who will make peace in the Middle East. In later years, there will be a massing of the world's armies in that part of the world, which will precipitate the return of Jesus. In all my reading on this subject, however, I had a growing sense of uneasiness. There was something nagging at the back of my mind, and it wouldn't go away. I often think that Christians are discouraged from addressing many of these nagging issues that afflict us. We seem afraid of facing our questions, preferring to simply ignore anything that seems unsure to us. However, I decided to face up to this particular issue because it seemed to be crucial to an understanding of the days in which we live.
My problem was this: I could accept that the Antichrist was going to rise from the nations of Europe. I could accept a Russian attack on Israel, and the involvement of China, with its enormous military capability. But what I could not understand was that apparent absence of the United States in the entire affair. After all, the US is now the only world empire, the most powerful economic and military force in the world today. As long as the Americans continued to lead the western nations, how could any European leader hope to eclipse the power and authority of the President of the United States? Furthermore, the State of Israel could not exist for long without the financial and military support of the United States, so I could not see how Israel could face an attack from any nation, much less Russia, without the US coming to its defence.
Some people might think that the absence of the US from the Bible accounts raised doubts about the accuracy of the Bible accounts; but that is not so. The Bible is God-breathed and is completely accurate and reliable in every respect. Of the 2,500 prophecies to be found in the pages of Scripture, 2,000 have been fulfilled literally and completely. All the rest have to do with the end times. The Bible is reliable. The only conclusion I could come to was that, either the United States was no longer interested in involving itself in world affairs by that stage in history, or else it was no longer in a position to be involved. In either case, it would require a major calamity to bring about such a state of affairs. The implications were obvious: between now and the return of Jesus, something profound is going to come upon the United States of America. But what might that be? And does Scripture give any help in understanding this?
I have looked at the writings of many of the end-time experts over the past few years. Ironically, most of these are Americans, and there is nowhere in the world where this issue is more popular than in the States. But, aside from Jack Van Impe, I have not found among the leading writers, anyone who tackles the issue of the role the US will play in the last days. That surprised me greatly, until I began to see what Scripture was saying. What I have found may be highly unacceptable to many, especially American Christians. Believers from the US have a very strong attachment to their country, as do all Americans. But if I am right, then American believers desperately need to know, and to respond to what I believe the Lord is saying in Scripture: the United States is the Babylon of the Book of Revelation.
Let's examine the verses which deal with the fall of Babylon the Great in Revelation and see how these words apply to the US in our day. The first mention is in Rev. 14.8, where an angel cries out that Babylon the Great has fallen, "which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries". But it is not until chapters 17 and 18 that the full details of the fall are given. Beginning in Chapter 17, then, we find in verse 1 a reference to a woman, a prostitute who sits on many waters. She is found in a desert, sitting on a scarlet beast which was covered with blasphemies and with seven heads and ten horns. [v. 3] The woman is dressed in purple and scarlet, the symbolic colours of empire and rulership, and is glittering with gold and jewels. She holds a golden cup full of abominable things and the filth of her adulteries [v. 4]. The title written on her forehead was:
Mystery
Babylon the Great
The Mother of Prostitutes
And of the Abominations of the Earth
In verse 15 we are told that the waters on which the woman sits "are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages". This implies that Babylon incorporates in herself a multi-ethnic and multicultural diversity of peoples. Verse 18 tells us that the woman "is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth", a political entity with superpower status.
In the past, some Bible commentators have held that the woman stands for the old Rome, centre of the greatest empire the world had known in the days Revelation was written. This view was supported by the fact that Peter refers to Rome as Babylon in his first letter [1 Peter 5.13]. However, the context in Revelation is the end times, and the Roman Empire has long since fallen and disappeared. Others agreed that the woman was Rome, but stood for the Roman Catholic Church. That, they said, is the great prostitute which has filled the earth with the maddening wine of her adulteries. More recently, modern commentators have held that Babylon the Great is the coming world religion that is described elsewhere in Revelation. However, both of these interpretations fail to account for other aspects of Babylon described in chapter 18.
This chapter opens with the declaration that Babylon the Great has fallen. One would think that the fall of Babylon would lead to great rejoicing; but the rest of the chapter describes the universal grieving that follows her fall. Why does the world mourn the fall of the great prostitute? Because their economies depended entirely on her. Verses 11 to 20 describe how the merchants of the earth, the traders, haulers and carriers, will mourn over the lost markets, the centre of economic life on the planet. It was because of her strong economy that the rest of the world profited: "all who had ships on the sea became rich through her wealth" [18.19] Babylon is not simply a religious power, it is the dominant economic power on the planet. Does this description fit the Catholic Church, or any church? "Your merchants were the world's great men" [18.23]
The power of Babylon extended far beyond the normal parameters of business, however. The list of things traded there included, not only material goods, minerals, livestock and vehicles, but also the "bodies and souls of men" [18.12- 13]. Not only were her merchants the great men of the world, but "By your magic spell all the nations were led astray" [18.23] What could this magic spell be? What influence could one nation have that would so affect the rest of the nations of the world? Since the end of World War Two, the United States has managed to dominate the world's cultural and social life. People of all nations watch American movies, American TV shows. They go to Macdonald's, drink Coke and Pepsi, wear Levi's and eat burgers and pizza. In Europe and Asia, anything that is labelled "American-style" has added attraction for people, especially young people. It is called "Cocacolonization", and "McCulture". This process is destroying national and regional identities and cultures, appealing to the lowest common denominator. Hollywood and teh TV networks are influencing the minds of millions of people throughout the world, impressing on them the values and attitudes of the US. Commercialism, capitalism, a gun culture, arrogance. The really great values America has held to in the past, and less so today, are not praised in these media. Fairness, equality, toleration and honesty are not the values which America respresents to the world any longer.
Is there another nation on earth that fits the description of Babylon? Is there another political, cultural world power, consisting of people from a diversity of linguistic and ethnic backgrounds, that dictates the world's economic and cultural destiny? If the US is not Babylon, where is? If Babylon stands for another nation, which rises to such universal dominance in economic and cultural areas, what will happen to the US? If we are in the Last Days, and if we expect to see the Lord's return in the next years, or decades, then we must accept that only the United States of America can fulfill the role assigned to Babylon the Great in the Scriptures.
The most obvious objection to this theory is that the US has traditionally identified itself with God's people. Doesn't the Constitution of the United States specifically refer to it as "one nation under God"? Do not the words "In God we trust" appear on coins and currency? Has not the US been known through its history as a "God-fearing" country. What of the Bible-belt? What of the myriad television and radio ministries, the churches and Bible colleges? What of the very high percentage of Americans who claim to be born again, church-going Christians? How can this nation be Babylon? Ironically, these arguments only argue in favour of Babylon being the US! Because, in Revelation 17 and 18, Babylon is condemned for adultery. In other words, Babylon is a nation that by rights belongs to God. In 17.2-3, the full story is told:
Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!
She has become a home for demons and a haunt for every evil spirit,
a haunt for every unclean and detestable bird.
For all the nations of the earth have drunk the maddening wine of her adulteries.
The kings of the earth committed adultery with her,
and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries.
The woman was called a prostitute, because she sold what rightly belonged to another for profit. Babylon has become a home for demons, meaning it wasn't a home for demons before. The United States of America was founded by God-fearing men and women. For decades, the main ethos of the nation was based on the Bible. A great civil war was fought, in part, for principles of human equality and value. Honour was paid to biblical values and principles, and God was honoured in schools, homes and government.
But that changed. As the nation grew in wealth and power, so it began to move away from its own ideals. It went from Mr. Smith Goes to Washington to All the President's Men. It became the centre for pornography, the focus of the world's drug trade. It became a place of murder, where millions of unborn children were butchered in ways that would not be used against animals. A place where animals were treated better than the poor, billions of dollars spent on feeding and grooming dogs and cats, while millions of people went hungry and sick. Millions of dollars to make movies and TV shows, but not enough to provide health care for the poor and elderly. Fear came to dictate life: fear of outsiders expressed in wars and McCarthyism. Fear of neighbours, expressed in high murder rates and a gun culture unknown anywhere else in the 'civilised' world. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness contained the seeds of selfcentredness, greed, lust, materialism and every kind of religious heresy. Out of the US came the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science and the New Age movement. Americans have become known around the world as arrogant, ignorant of other cultures and traditions, and dangerous, imposing their values and culture for the sake of a dollar. It has become a nation where children murder other children, where parents kill their children. Most importantly, it is a nation that does not realise its danger: it remains convinced of its own righteousness, that its way is the best way. This is not the nation of the Pilgrims. It is not a nation under God. But its sin is that it claims to be under God, and acts in God's name. It uses God as an excuse for its own arrogance and violence, claiming that only the righteous US has the right to impose order and values on the rest of the world.
I had found one accusation made against Babylon hard to understand in the context of the United States. Babylon, according to Revelation 17.6, was "drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus". That did not seem to apply to the US. After all, when had America ever persecuted Christians, much less got "drunk with the blood of the saints"? Then I looked again at the Christians in the US, and I realised that they were, in fact, bleeding. An attack was being made on the gospel of Jesus Christ in the US. Not in the way you might think: by left-wing liberals outlawing prayer in the schools; not by scientists teaching evolution instead of creation. All of this was happening, and would add to the list of sins which made Babylon what it was. But the real attack on the gospel was coming from the Christians themselves!
Remember the accusation made against Babylon: adultery. God's people were at the root of Babylon's sin. Other nations shared the sins of unbelievers, but in the US it was the Christians who turned their nation into Babylon. The situation is similar to that of Israel at the time of Jesus. Israel, too, was accused of adultery, again and again. They mixed God's ways with the ways of the surrounding nations, allowing into their lives things which were not right. By the time Messiah arrived, they had become so blind to their own adultery, they could no longer see the truth, and they crucified the one for whom they had been waiting.
The United States is guilty of adultery also. The church has mixed the ways of the world with the ways of God, and no longer see it. Material wealth, arrogance, a belief that they are the natural leaders in the world, has led the Christians to adopt much of the idolatry that lies at the heart of the United States. Christians have adopted secular America's religion: patriotism. They take the symbols of the world, and bring them into the church. They swear allegiance to flags and nations, to worldly ideologies and worldly principles. They make allegiance to the US of more importance than allegiance to the gospel. No longer are they the salt and the light, they are an essential part of Babylon. The most extreme supporters of Babylon ally themselves with the Christian churches, waving the flag and preaching the superiority of the American way of life. But America is a nation of the world - not the kingdom of God. The Ameican flag, and even the American Constitution, are products and symbols of the World. Look again at what the Scriptures say:
Do not love the world, or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For everything in the world - the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does - comes not from the Father but from the world. [1 John 2.15-16]
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred towards God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God. [James 4.4]
American patriotism is probably the clearest example of this love for the world today. It is triumphalist, believing in the superiority of "the American way". Boasting about what a man has and does is at the centre of American life. "My country - right or wrong" is a belief that puts love of the world above the ways of God and has led to killing, wars, hatred and all kinds of evil. Ironically, it has also led to a serious internal threat to the security of the US. The men convicted of the Oklahoma City bombing represented a fast-growing right-wing movement which identifies itself with traditional Christianity. Although it is far from the gospel of Jesus, this movement seeks a return to the "good old days" when biblical standards were more accepted in America. These people fear and hate foreigners, ethnic groups other than their own, and even the American Government. When these people kill and spread their hatred and paranoia, they degrade the gospel, they bring Christianity into disrepute throughout the world.
Even more damaging to the honour of God in the world has been the preaching of evangelists on TV. They make the gospel a laughing-stock by being so blatantly greedy, money-hungry and false. They come across like the old con-men who sold snake oil in the past. No matter how sincere they may be, no matter how much they may honestly believe they are serving God, they preach materialism and American patriotism, claiming that their nation is God-fearing and true to the gospel. But at the same time, they identify themselves with one particular political party, one particular ideology. Yet these parties and ideologies are not Christianity, they are of the world. Babylon has become a haunt for every evil spirit. And this is why: because the Christians have not held themselves apart from the idolatry of America, but have embraced it, and brought it into their places of worship.
Babylon will fall in an hour! There is a judgment coming on Babylon that will suddenly and utterly destroy her. The evil spiritual powers which have raised her up for their own purposes, will turn on her and destroy her:
The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose...[Rev. 17.16- 17]
What could possibly destroy the US in a single hour? Sudden and complete destruction by fire, eating her flesh and leaving her naked, will come upon Babylon as God's judgment on her adulteries.
Woe! Woe, O great city, O Babylon, city of power! In one hour your doom has come! [Rev. 18.10]
Heaven will rejoice over the fall of Babylon, for it will come as a punishment for the way it has treated the saints and apostles and prophets [Rev. 18.20]. On that day, the words of men of God like A.W. Tozer will stand as a witness against the worldly idolaters who chose comfort and luxuries instead of allegiance to the their Lord. Look again at what God's command is to his people in Babylon:
Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues. [Rev. 18.4]
What does all this mean, and what are the believers to do? Should they literally leave the US so as to avoid the nuclear [?] catastrophe that is coming? I think American Christians need to look closely at what they have been giving their allegiance to. The United States is responsible for producing much of the pornography, materialism, occult teaching and deception in the world today. As a nation, it is paranoid, blind, worldly and self-absorbed. This is not how Christians should be, and it is not the kind of nation Christians should feel comfortable swearing allegiance to. No matter what country in which we Christians happen to be living, we are citizens of heaven, owing allegiance only to our King and his Kingdom. No earthly power should come between us and obedience to our God's commands. We should not be using heathen symbols, much less swearing loyalty to them. Come out and be separate. Imagine what a witness it would be to your fellow-countrymen, and to the world, were the true Christians of the United States to stand up for God and deliberately have nothing to do with the evil and worldliness around them. No-one had more reason to be proud of his worldly connections than Paul. He was a Hebrew of the Hebrews. He was also a citizen of the most powerful and civilised empire ever known to that time. Yet he separated himself from both allegiances for the sake of the gospel. He called them "dung", not worth thinking about compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Jesus Christ as his Lord.
Compromise on this issue is deadly. You cannot serve two masters, and when one master is the Lord, the other has to go. You are dead to this world and its ways, and you belong to another. Don't commit adultery with the world, even with the United States of America.
If you disagree with my thinking, please satisfy yourself from Scripture that there is another candidate in the world today for the role of Babylon. If there is, please let me know, I would be very grateful indeed to be put right, if I am in error. But is there is no other candidate, then the US is on the road to complete destruction. It is the duty of all Christians to pray for the people of the US, that they would turn to God before it is too late, and be ready for what is coming. Because it is coming: the Scripture cannot be broken. If you are an American Christian, then nothing is more important right now than finding out the truth of this for yourself. If you are convinced, then you need to spend yourself, and everything you have, to preach the Word, in season and out, to sound a warning cry in the church. Wake up, O sleeper. Rise from the dead, and your God will shine on you.
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post Nov 9 2005, 10:31 PM
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QUOTE(Gavrial @ Nov 9 2005, 11:12 PM)
WHY STUMBLING BLOCKS BECAME THE “TRADITION OF MEN”
I believe the antichrist will arise in and come out of a system of “ten successive presidential administrations” before being revealed as the “eighth” head of his short “reign of terror”!
Is this a new teaching, let the evidence speak for itself as you read this essay, if you are a SEEKER OF TRUTH, the links in and at the bottom will aid your understanding as you reach a verdict.
Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2) And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, his seat, and great authority.
Each of the seven heads is a blasphemous named god or goddess; they are wrapped inside the “forehead” of our Capitol dome on giant 15’ murals. Sitting on top of them, on the dome is Athena, the “Mother of harlots”!
LINKS FOR LEARNING:
http://www.aoc.gov/cc/art/freedom_1.cfm In this link she is holds a “crown” or presidential seal in her left hand.
http://www.aoc.gov/cc/art/Freedom_2.cfm She stands on 12 crowns at her base.
The ten horns are the last ten Presidents, with the ten crowns representing “the seal” of their Presidency. By being seen as a leopard with bear’s feet and having a mouth of a lion, THE BEAST IS SHOWING HIS “SUBJUGATION” of the last three Presidents.
3) And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 4) And they worshiped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshiped the beast, saying, who is like unto the beast? Who is able to make war with him? 5) And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
In Greek mythology, it was Athena who “sprung alive” from the head of Zeus, seen coming out of the sea in the “marine mural” on the inside or forehead of the dome. This would cause a wound to his head, would it not?
However could the “wound” be no more THAN A HINT as to what country the antichrist “COMES OUT OF”, the future warring powerful nation, the United States? The chronology of verses Rev. 13:1-5 points to that possibility.
ANOTHER LINK OF LEARNING:
http://www.aoc.gov/cc/art/rotunda/apotheosis/apoth_mar.cfm
Does the man (Zeus) coming out of the sea show a “wound to the head”? His beard, some of his hair and moustache are white. Yet the top of his head is dark! These murals wrapped around the dome are NOT there as paintings but for telling a story of “great prophetic significance”.
God’s wisdom of Revelation 17:9-10 exposes the Illuminati’s “Great undertaking”, a plan to go to war and defeat Yeshua at his return and set up their New world order!
To war she goes: http://www.aoc.gov/cc/art/rotunda/apotheosis/apoth_war.cfm Read Isaiah 47 to see what God’s plan for the “Mother of harlots” is.
In Rev.13:1-2 one can see an electoral system in place having ten kings, with the last three having attributes of animals. The question here is this; are these attributes referring to past beast empires which make up this “beast system”, or are they co-existent recent empires with a final “fourth” super power?
Here is a thought, unlike tradition that says these empires are Assyria, Babylon, Greece and Rome, or even possibly the more current empires of England, Russia, Germany and the UN/US. What if Daniel 7:17 IS TRUE! That they are “four kings”!
Daniel 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth. My own personal belief is they are listed below!
-The Lion (Bill Clinton)
-The Bear (George W. Bush)
-The Leopard (Dick Cheney) - Dominion given to it: when the bear falls, he will get dominion.
-The dreadful Fourth Beast (the subjugator of the three Daniel 7:24)
DON’T STUB YOUR TOE ON THE “TEN TOES” YOU WILL STUMBLE
What I am saying is the traditional Prophecy teachers are wrong, though there are similarities, the hard fact is, these 4 kings have been interpreted as beasts and the 10 horns have been interpretated as kingdoms and not kings, this is where the “stumbling blocks” materialized from!
The important thing to remember is that “the truth” came in verse 16 and said “These great beasts, which are four, are four kings that shall arise out of the earth”(Dan 7:17).
This ten king system is mentioned both here in Revelation and also in the book of the Daniel. The traditional thought is that this will be a revived Roman Empire. This view does not stand up when scrutinized closely. This comes from a traditional teaching that the ten toes of Daniel 2 correspond to the ten kings of Daniel 7 and Revelation 13.
Daniel 2 does not tell of any revived Roman Empire but speaks of the empire of Rome that was in power when Yeshua arrived and began his ministry to set up the Kingdom Of God. For the Daniel 7 interpretation is clear in that it is in the days of these ten kings, with emphasis on the last three that God will set up his millennial kingdom.
THE STUMBLING BLOCK OF DANIEL 2 KEEPS AMERICA HIDDEN
In fact if there is any empire that seems to fill the parameters set down by Daniel it is the Greek Empire. Remember the “four notable ones” who come up in the latter time, with the “little horn” subduing three of them are Grecian. Whose “fourth kingdom” is diminished in power and becomes a non factor in the final days as the antichrist ascends.
Daniel 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full (when the last 10 Presidents terms have ended), a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
If we take a close look at Daniel 8, one can see that he is not speaking of Rome but Greece/USA. For I believe the verses before this describe in detail, the presidency of George Bush Sr., his ‘Desert Storm’ invasion, his political defeat to Clinton-Gore (Daniel 8:8) then Bush-Cheney receiving there kingdom.
It is Greece, not Rome, that “in the latter time of THEIR kingdom”, these things begin to happen, describing the person and work of the antichrist, that work being his “subjugation” of the last three of ten Presidents’(Daniel 7:24).
If there is any revival here, it is a revival of a Greek civilization, the civilization that brought us democracy and our western culture along with the “Mother of harlots”, the Grecian goddess Athena, who sits on our Capitol dome!
However, the end time’s system of ten successive kings/presidents is clear in Revelation 13:1-18 and 17:7-18. It is not the ten toes that Daniel 2 spoke of, nor is it as falsely interpreted, “revived Roman Empire”, now taken to be the New European Union, already having 15 members and ready to add ten more, expanding the number 25. This should show any reasonable person that this interpretation is spurious and needs to be re-examined.
PRIDE AND THE POWER OF MONEY COVER THE TRUTH
God is not confused, but many so-called prophecy writers and teachers are. However it is God’s wisdom in Revelation 17:9 that destroys every prophecy book written and teaching spoken since 1970, it says “Here is a mind that has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.
Yet so many simply continue to believe and hold on to a “35 year old embarrassment” as unerring fact! What is it that causes these teachers to pursue this “false teaching”?
These men, who invariably are part of America's multi-billion dollar religion business, are pointing the world’s remnant believers in the wrong direction. However the hard fact is they can’t or won’t turn back. They would have to seek forgiveness for the “filthy lucre” of charging money for all their books, tapes and etc. that they have fleeced their sheep with. Pride is a strong sin; FEW IF ANY, will take a chance of the financial backlash coming against them!
Daniel 7:1-28, The ten horns are in the beasts head, a clear difference inferred from the ten toes of Daniel 2 which are toes located on the feet of the image.
Here we can also see that the beast overcomes and prevails against the saints of God until Yeshua returns, also notice carefully that the wording is quite different here, than in Daniel 2, where God set up his kingdom in the days of the “ten toes”.
A GODLY HEAVENLY KINGDOM COMES
However in Daniel 7 we notice that the saints actually have been given the kingdom of the Beast and the power of judgment. The old beast in Daniel 2 was actually destroyed by God; another very important point is that these beasts in 7 are future as Daniel 7:17 clearly states. This point alone has thrown many traditional interpretations out the window.
The fact that the ten horns on the head of the beast also lines up with the “ten crowns” of Revelation 13, as to location on the head, meaning that before Yeshua returns this ten-king/horned system as the final form of a secular satanic influenced government will be relegated to the short lived “eighth kingdom” that the antichrist will reign over.
IS THERE IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE OF THESE FACTS
Read these links in sequence (top to bottom) and let God’s wisdom through his Spirit lead you into all truth.
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=2466
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=2440
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=2430
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=2431
Giving Him the glory a Ezekiel 33:6 watching one
REPENT the Kingdom of God is at hand, make your election SURE
*
You have some interesting ideas, but it is not necessary to come on strong with the opening remark, "WHY STUMBLING BLOCKS BECAME THE “TRADITION OF MEN”'"
If it is true others will discern that. No need to imply that if they don't that they are unspiritual!
Its kind of like saying, "God told me so you must believe!
Anyway, interesting thoughts. wink.gif
--------------------
How to be saved and know it!
"When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it? Surely the Sovereign Lord does nothing without revealing his plan to his sevants the prophets. The Lion has roared, who will not fear!" (Amos 3:6b-8a)
Picture Bible Code
1260 days, 1290 days, Bible Prophecy Patterns
Bible Prophecy Numbers
Tabernacle: Temple of Time
360-days Bible-Prophecy Calendar
I can tell you this much, In the past 4 months teachings I have been sitting under for years have fallen apart and I have seen the truth by trusting the Holy Spirit and his Word and being like the Bereans. Test the things you are being tought by your pastors, do not follow blind.
it is kind of long, maybe I can sum it up. I hope I don't change the subject though. You all know that I have had problems with my mother-in-law and my husband turning their selves to God. Well last night my mother-in-law called and was crying. She was worried about her son and the world. She said she couldn't understand what has happening to the world. I told her that all I could say to her was from my heart and out of love that she needed to pull her bible out and study. So we talked a little more, she was actually interested. I felt I was getting through to her. Well we ended it with some personal things that have affected our relationship. So later my husband came home. I told him that I had a good talk with his mother. Which usually I am complaining about her.
My husband was exhausted from work so we head to bed. I notice he is reading something and look over and he is reading a book that I have been reading on prophecy. He then sits up in bed and I ask him what are you doing? He says I thought I heard music, funny but when I was turning myself to God and reading at night I too thought I was hearing music. Some of you could say that means nothing, but I think it is quite amazing. The next morning I asked him how he slept, he said fine, but I had a dream. He said that he dreamed he was going to work and when he reaced work he looked up into the sky and noticed some clouds. Then this great wind came and lifted him off the ground and was moving him up. He then looked over and saw our home and noticed myself and the children moving up through the roof towards the sky.
He felt happy,but then the wind stopped and somehow he was now with us and we were moving back down. He said we looked kind of sad at first, but then a great wind came and blew us back up. He said there were now a lot of people moving up with us, and some below us. He said our two year old son was saying bye people.
This dream touched both of us. The thing that is turely amazing is this. Remember the dream started with my husband going to work. Well today when he went to work, his boss pulled him aside and told him that an associate told him that he saw my husband at work at 7am sleeping in his red convertible mustang. My husband did not go in to work until 12:00pm today. He worked a very long day yesterday and did not return home until 3am in the morning, as this was around the time we went to bed and he had his dream. We awoke around 9am to the phone and that is when my husband told me of his dream.
Then I posted somewhere else about getting a call from Howard Stern, if you knew me I am a very sain person. I am not crazy, but truely had a phone call from Howar Stern at 12:53pm today. I do not understand why, but wonder after having the dream of the devil, if it was some kind of supernatural thing trying to pull me the other way. Anyway I did not take the call, I hung up. I have seen four shooting stars in a well lit city, which is, I would say impossible. I truely feel blessed and like I am wittnessing some truely amazing things of God, except the dream I had about the devil speaking to me and the Howard Stern thing of course.
I feel I am just glowing with excitement, I want to just go outside and scream to the world in a loving way that Jesus Christ is coming!!!!
Love~Stacy
My husband was exhausted from work so we head to bed. I notice he is reading something and look over and he is reading a book that I have been reading on prophecy. He then sits up in bed and I ask him what are you doing? He says I thought I heard music, funny but when I was turning myself to God and reading at night I too thought I was hearing music. Some of you could say that means nothing, but I think it is quite amazing. The next morning I asked him how he slept, he said fine, but I had a dream. He said that he dreamed he was going to work and when he reaced work he looked up into the sky and noticed some clouds. Then this great wind came and lifted him off the ground and was moving him up. He then looked over and saw our home and noticed myself and the children moving up through the roof towards the sky.
He felt happy,but then the wind stopped and somehow he was now with us and we were moving back down. He said we looked kind of sad at first, but then a great wind came and blew us back up. He said there were now a lot of people moving up with us, and some below us. He said our two year old son was saying bye people.
This dream touched both of us. The thing that is turely amazing is this. Remember the dream started with my husband going to work. Well today when he went to work, his boss pulled him aside and told him that an associate told him that he saw my husband at work at 7am sleeping in his red convertible mustang. My husband did not go in to work until 12:00pm today. He worked a very long day yesterday and did not return home until 3am in the morning, as this was around the time we went to bed and he had his dream. We awoke around 9am to the phone and that is when my husband told me of his dream.
Then I posted somewhere else about getting a call from Howard Stern, if you knew me I am a very sain person. I am not crazy, but truely had a phone call from Howar Stern at 12:53pm today. I do not understand why, but wonder after having the dream of the devil, if it was some kind of supernatural thing trying to pull me the other way. Anyway I did not take the call, I hung up. I have seen four shooting stars in a well lit city, which is, I would say impossible. I truely feel blessed and like I am wittnessing some truely amazing things of God, except the dream I had about the devil speaking to me and the Howard Stern thing of course.
I feel I am just glowing with excitement, I want to just go outside and scream to the world in a loving way that Jesus Christ is coming!!!!
Love~Stacy
Wonderful post Leia
Satan is described as he who weakens the Nations ................
America is in the Bible .
One of the most bizarre things about America is its syncretism of profound Christian beliefs and Masonic symbols .
I have said before , its almost as if America is founded on dual principles .
This is the weakening of the Nations . Wherever you see Tyre mentioned in the Bible it links to freemasonry .
Satan is described as he who weakens the Nations ................
America is in the Bible .
One of the most bizarre things about America is its syncretism of profound Christian beliefs and Masonic symbols .
I have said before , its almost as if America is founded on dual principles .
This is the weakening of the Nations . Wherever you see Tyre mentioned in the Bible it links to freemasonry .
Hi...
It's cantankerous old me again, making the same request.
Please site your sources! A link from the web page would be great.
It's cantankerous old me again, making the same request.
Please site your sources! A link from the web page would be great.
Let's just not forget something here people.... 
THE WHEAT ARE SOWN RIGHT IN WITH THE TARE
Everything you both say may be true but don't forget who you're hurting and discouraging when you say it and don't qualify and differentiate between the two.
Not everybody and everything in this country is Illuminati. Lets not just illuminate the naughty but let's illuminate the righteous Church of Jesus Christ as well.
The Church that's been the salt and light and bread basket to the world. People who have given their hard earned dollars and countless man hours to helping the oppressed around the world. And the blood spilt for freedom...
When you say how evil it all is your helping the stinking enemy justify his cause.
If even her own people turn on her....
What about my house hummm? My husbands the head....should my family and l be utterly destroyed with your words? He maybe the head but there's a lot of good going on behind the scenes that others don't see! These generalizing words sting deep and give the enemy a mocking grin.
The spirit of the antichrist wares the saints down in the last days. When you aren't careful how you speak the truth you add to the load. Nobody is completely impervious to this.
Those good people God's chosen will rise out of the ashes and turn again to God and then we'll see if the last will be the greatest..Maybe some you've mocked because you couldn't see God's purpose behind the enemies smoke screen.
I love my country and the principles on which it was founded. I haven't lost those and neither has my God. Greater is he that is in me and the true church than he that is in the world!
GOD BLESS AMERICA
land that l love!
Stand beside her
and guild her
through the night with the light from above!
THE WHEAT ARE SOWN RIGHT IN WITH THE TARE
Everything you both say may be true but don't forget who you're hurting and discouraging when you say it and don't qualify and differentiate between the two.
Not everybody and everything in this country is Illuminati. Lets not just illuminate the naughty but let's illuminate the righteous Church of Jesus Christ as well.
The Church that's been the salt and light and bread basket to the world. People who have given their hard earned dollars and countless man hours to helping the oppressed around the world. And the blood spilt for freedom...
When you say how evil it all is your helping the stinking enemy justify his cause.
If even her own people turn on her.... What about my house hummm? My husbands the head....should my family and l be utterly destroyed with your words? He maybe the head but there's a lot of good going on behind the scenes that others don't see! These generalizing words sting deep and give the enemy a mocking grin.
The spirit of the antichrist wares the saints down in the last days. When you aren't careful how you speak the truth you add to the load. Nobody is completely impervious to this.
Those good people God's chosen will rise out of the ashes and turn again to God and then we'll see if the last will be the greatest..Maybe some you've mocked because you couldn't see God's purpose behind the enemies smoke screen.
I love my country and the principles on which it was founded. I haven't lost those and neither has my God. Greater is he that is in me and the true church than he that is in the world!
GOD BLESS AMERICA
land that l love!
Stand beside her
and guild her
through the night with the light from above!
excellent article with some excellent insight. i would have to agree with the author, in that the subject of the revelation babylon is something i believe god has been opening my eyes to. i don't want to sound condescending to the skeptics, but once you step out of this "modern roman empire" bubble we line in, it isnt at all hard to see that we may indeed be the babylon.
9-11 should be proof of god's disgust with this country. it may very well have been a warning, and due to the fact that we as a country have not heeded this warning; a mere forecast of what judgements may be around the corner.
i also would like to say that in no way have i forced any pre-disposed opinions, thoughts or beliefs into this conviction; this isn't something i want to believe is true. however like i said, coupled with god's help and the puzzle pieces fitting together too perfectly, i cannot ignore the very real possibility.
9-11 should be proof of god's disgust with this country. it may very well have been a warning, and due to the fact that we as a country have not heeded this warning; a mere forecast of what judgements may be around the corner.
i also would like to say that in no way have i forced any pre-disposed opinions, thoughts or beliefs into this conviction; this isn't something i want to believe is true. however like i said, coupled with god's help and the puzzle pieces fitting together too perfectly, i cannot ignore the very real possibility.
MIKI- thanks. You are a refreshing glass of water around here. Some folks act like the US is the only place you find porn,materialism etc. As I have pointed out Europeans have lived in luxury much longer than any one on the planet. My sister just came from Europe and couldn't believe the sexual immorality everywhere. Europeans have long prided themselves as being "free thinkers". Now that being said am I calling Europe Babylon the Great- No! As stated by Miki the wheat and tars grow together. Sometimes I wonder if the US isn't one of the two witnesses( or the restrainer) because their sure would be alot of dancing in the streets and gifts being exchanged if it were destroyed. 
QUOTE (john68 @ Mar 14 2008, 09:32 AM) 
MIKI- thanks. You are a refreshing glass of water around here. Some folks act like the US is the only place you find porn,materialism etc. As I have pointed out Europeans have lived in luxury much longer than any one on the planet. My sister just came from Europe and couldn't believe the sexual immorality everywhere. Europeans have long prided themselves as being "free thinkers". Now that being said am I calling Europe Babylon the Great- No! As stated by Miki the wheat and tars grow together.
indeed, immorality is widespread. however the one thing in my opinion that differentiates america from the others is that we have committed "adultery" against the lord. we as a nation have committed blatant apostasy.
jesus made it clear that those who have been given much, much is expected. america has been blessed greatly by god, yet we turned our back on him. "That servant who knew his master’s will but did not get ready or do what his master asked will receive a severe beating. But the one who did not know his master’s will and did things worthy of punishment will receive a light beating. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required, and from the one who has been entrusted with much, even more will be asked." luke 12:47-48
QUOTE
Sometimes I wonder if the US isn't one of the two witnesses( or the restrainer) because their sure would be alot of dancing in the streets and gifts being exchanged if it were destroyed.
i also think its possible america could be one of the two witnesses. however you look at it, america has a bad future. this really is the reality that americans need to wake up to. time truly is running out, whether we are babylon or not.
Dear group,
I know this post is long, but please bear with me. It is necessary to make all these points in order to see that I'm not just guessing about this.
There are 25 instances of the word "city" in the book of Revelation. By reading Revelation in context, it can be seen that *all* refer to Jerusalem, either the Old Jerusalem or the New Jerusalem.
Rev 3:12
"New Jerusalem"
Rev 11:2-3
"the holy city"
The next verse tells of the two witnesses who will prophesy, thus connecting to "the holy city" which is Jerusalem.
Rev 11:8
the bodies of the two witnesses shall lie in the street of the great city "where also our Lord was crucified", in other words, Jerusalem.
Rev 11:13
What same hour? The same hour that the two witnesses are killed, there will be a great earthquake and the tenth part of "the city" fell. What "the city"? The same city as Rev 11:8, Jerusalem.
Note: Rev 11:15 says that the seventh angel sounded (the last trumpet) and the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. This indicates that the Lord has returned.
Rev 14:8
". . . Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication."
Note, this tells us that the great city which had partially fallen as of Rev 11:13 has completely fallen, and also connects "Babylon", "wine", "wrath", and "fornication" with it. So all the references to "city" thus far has been to Jerusalem. "Babylon" is Jerusalem.
Rev 14:19-20 is a retelling in more detail of part of the story which was finished at Rev 11:15. It also connects "winepress" and "wrath of God" with "the city". What city? The same city that has been talked about all along, Jerusalem.
Rev 16:19 is also retelling in more detail the story which was finished at Rev 11:15 with the return of the Lord. It connects "great city", "Great Babylon", "wine", and "wrath". Just like Rev 14:19-20 it talks about the same great city, called "Great Babylon" this time, which is Jerusalem.
Revelation 17 talks about "that great city" which is also called "Babylon the Great". "Babylon the Great" in Rev 17:5 is the same as "Great Babylon" in Rev 16:19. By reading in context we can see that all the references in Revelation to "city", "great city", "that great city", "Babylon", "Great Babylon", and "Babylon the Great" up to this point have *all* been about the same city, which is Jerusalem.
Rev 18:10, 16, 18, 19, & 21 are references to "that great city Babylon", "that great city", and "this great city"; which is another retelling of the same story about that great city Babylon. This retelling reinforces the idea that the city was "clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls" which we read about in Rev 17:4. By doing a search in the Bible for those words and "harlot", "whore", or "fornication" we turn up many Scriptures in which Jerusalem and/or Israel are described as being a harlot and dressed with those items.
Rev 20:9 is a reference to "the beloved city" which is what Jerusalem will be during the thousand year reign of Christ on earth.
And Rev 21:2, 10, 14, 15, 16, 18, and 19 mention "holy city, new Jerusalem", "that great city, the holy Jerusalem", "the city", and "the holy city" which are all references to the new Jerusalem. Why is there a new Jerusalem? Because the old Jerusalem had fallen.
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Lastly, regarding Rev 18, note that it makes a connection between between "that great city" called "Babylon the Great" and the death of the prophets.
20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
Rev 18:20 (KJV)
What city would God seek vengeance upon for the death of the prophets? Wouldn't it be the city where they were killed?
In Luke 13:33-34 Jesus said that He had to walk for THREE DAYS to go to Jerusalem because "it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem"!
He also said "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets". . . OK, stop right there. Where were the prophets killed? Where would the blood of the prophets be found?
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
Rev 18:24 (KJV)
Go back to Rev 11:8.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Rev 11:7-8 (KJV)
Where was our Lord crucified? Jerusalem.
Where were the two prophets of Revelation killed? Jerusalem.
Does Luke 13:33-34 harmonize with Rev 11:7-8 if they were all killed in Jerusalem? Yes.
Does Luke 13:33-34 harmonize with Rev 18:24 if that great city called "Babylon the Great" is Jerusalem? Yes.
Would any other city on the earth fit? No.
1. Jesus said that it wasn't possible for a prophet to perish out of Jerusalem.Luke 13:33-34
2. The OT prophets were killed in Jerusalem.
3. Our Lord was killed in Jerusalem.
4. The two prophets of Revelation will be killed in Jerusalem.
5. The blood of the prophets will be found in Jerusalem. (Rev 18:24)
That great city, called "Babylon the Great" can't be any city in the world than Jerusalem. Logically, since statements 1-4 are true, then statement 5 MUST BE TRUE.
Babylon the Great (Jerusalem) is the head of a world-wide religion, Judaism. There are many Scriptures which call Jerusalem/Israel a harlot. Judaism was a harlot long before any other religious harlots existed. As such, "that great city" is the mother of harlots.
Jerusalem/Israel has been described in Scriptures using the same words as described Babylon the Great in Rev 17:4.
Both Judaism and wealthy Jewish bankers have influenced kings and leaders all over the world. Don't get me wrong. I'm not anti-Jewish. I'm not cursing Israel. The words I'm using are the words of the Bible. I'm not against the nation of Israel. When Israel is attacked God's fury will rise up in His face!
I'm only pointing out who Babylon the Great is because we need to know who the main players are in Bible prophecy and where we are in the timeline of the end times.
Babylon the Great is the same city that will be hated and attacked by the nations of the beast. These same nations are listed in Ezek 38 and are the same nations which are killing Christians and Jews by beheading. These are also the same nations that have vowed to wipe Israel off the map. And these are the things that we can see on CNN happening right before our eyes.
There are those who strain a gasket trying to make the Roman Catholic Church fit as Babylon the Great. It isn't.
The OT prophets were not killed in Rome.
Our Lord was not killed in Rome.
The two prophets of Revelation won't be killed in Rome.
The winepress of the wrath of God is not near Rome.
And the same could be said for NYC. Neither NYC nor America is the mother of harlots. The *mother* of harlots has to be older than her daughters. Jerusalem and Israel were called harlots in the Bible long, long before the USA or the RCC even existed.
I don't see how it would be possible for anyone who read this whole post and still not know who Babylon the Great is. But if anyone has a question, feel free to ask.
Yours in Christ,
John Reno
ps I'm indebted to a man who calls himself "A Small Voice in the Wilderness" for pointing me in the right direction a few years ago about this. It was a major piece of the end times puzzle. Understanding who Babylon the Great is helps one to understand who the beast is, and vice-versa. Go read the OT prophets and notice how many *end times* references there are to Assyria, the king of Babylon, the Chaldeans. Also look up where the area of the king of the north (The Seleucid empire) from Alexander's empire was. Nimrod, Nebuchadnezzar, and Antiochus are commonly understood to be "types" of the antichrist. Now, what do Nimrod, Nebuchadnezzar, Antiochus, and Saddam Hussein all have in common?
Also, antichrists are not Christians who are from a different denomination. Antichrists are not lukewarm Christians. Antichrists are those who deny that Jesus is the Christ, (the Son of God) come in the flesh. No Christian, not even the Pope, denies that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, come in the flesh. Muslims and Jews deny that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God because they say that God *doesn't have* a Son!
I know this post is long, but please bear with me. It is necessary to make all these points in order to see that I'm not just guessing about this.
There are 25 instances of the word "city" in the book of Revelation. By reading Revelation in context, it can be seen that *all* refer to Jerusalem, either the Old Jerusalem or the New Jerusalem.
Rev 3:12
"New Jerusalem"
Rev 11:2-3
"the holy city"
The next verse tells of the two witnesses who will prophesy, thus connecting to "the holy city" which is Jerusalem.
Rev 11:8
the bodies of the two witnesses shall lie in the street of the great city "where also our Lord was crucified", in other words, Jerusalem.
Rev 11:13
What same hour? The same hour that the two witnesses are killed, there will be a great earthquake and the tenth part of "the city" fell. What "the city"? The same city as Rev 11:8, Jerusalem.
Note: Rev 11:15 says that the seventh angel sounded (the last trumpet) and the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. This indicates that the Lord has returned.
Rev 14:8
". . . Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication."
Note, this tells us that the great city which had partially fallen as of Rev 11:13 has completely fallen, and also connects "Babylon", "wine", "wrath", and "fornication" with it. So all the references to "city" thus far has been to Jerusalem. "Babylon" is Jerusalem.
Rev 14:19-20 is a retelling in more detail of part of the story which was finished at Rev 11:15. It also connects "winepress" and "wrath of God" with "the city". What city? The same city that has been talked about all along, Jerusalem.
Rev 16:19 is also retelling in more detail the story which was finished at Rev 11:15 with the return of the Lord. It connects "great city", "Great Babylon", "wine", and "wrath". Just like Rev 14:19-20 it talks about the same great city, called "Great Babylon" this time, which is Jerusalem.
Revelation 17 talks about "that great city" which is also called "Babylon the Great". "Babylon the Great" in Rev 17:5 is the same as "Great Babylon" in Rev 16:19. By reading in context we can see that all the references in Revelation to "city", "great city", "that great city", "Babylon", "Great Babylon", and "Babylon the Great" up to this point have *all* been about the same city, which is Jerusalem.
Rev 18:10, 16, 18, 19, & 21 are references to "that great city Babylon", "that great city", and "this great city"; which is another retelling of the same story about that great city Babylon. This retelling reinforces the idea that the city was "clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls" which we read about in Rev 17:4. By doing a search in the Bible for those words and "harlot", "whore", or "fornication" we turn up many Scriptures in which Jerusalem and/or Israel are described as being a harlot and dressed with those items.
Rev 20:9 is a reference to "the beloved city" which is what Jerusalem will be during the thousand year reign of Christ on earth.
And Rev 21:2, 10, 14, 15, 16, 18, and 19 mention "holy city, new Jerusalem", "that great city, the holy Jerusalem", "the city", and "the holy city" which are all references to the new Jerusalem. Why is there a new Jerusalem? Because the old Jerusalem had fallen.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lastly, regarding Rev 18, note that it makes a connection between between "that great city" called "Babylon the Great" and the death of the prophets.
20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
Rev 18:20 (KJV)
What city would God seek vengeance upon for the death of the prophets? Wouldn't it be the city where they were killed?
In Luke 13:33-34 Jesus said that He had to walk for THREE DAYS to go to Jerusalem because "it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem"!
He also said "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets". . . OK, stop right there. Where were the prophets killed? Where would the blood of the prophets be found?
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
Rev 18:24 (KJV)
Go back to Rev 11:8.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Rev 11:7-8 (KJV)
Where was our Lord crucified? Jerusalem.
Where were the two prophets of Revelation killed? Jerusalem.
Does Luke 13:33-34 harmonize with Rev 11:7-8 if they were all killed in Jerusalem? Yes.
Does Luke 13:33-34 harmonize with Rev 18:24 if that great city called "Babylon the Great" is Jerusalem? Yes.
Would any other city on the earth fit? No.
1. Jesus said that it wasn't possible for a prophet to perish out of Jerusalem.Luke 13:33-34
2. The OT prophets were killed in Jerusalem.
3. Our Lord was killed in Jerusalem.
4. The two prophets of Revelation will be killed in Jerusalem.
5. The blood of the prophets will be found in Jerusalem. (Rev 18:24)
That great city, called "Babylon the Great" can't be any city in the world than Jerusalem. Logically, since statements 1-4 are true, then statement 5 MUST BE TRUE.
Babylon the Great (Jerusalem) is the head of a world-wide religion, Judaism. There are many Scriptures which call Jerusalem/Israel a harlot. Judaism was a harlot long before any other religious harlots existed. As such, "that great city" is the mother of harlots.
Jerusalem/Israel has been described in Scriptures using the same words as described Babylon the Great in Rev 17:4.
Both Judaism and wealthy Jewish bankers have influenced kings and leaders all over the world. Don't get me wrong. I'm not anti-Jewish. I'm not cursing Israel. The words I'm using are the words of the Bible. I'm not against the nation of Israel. When Israel is attacked God's fury will rise up in His face!
I'm only pointing out who Babylon the Great is because we need to know who the main players are in Bible prophecy and where we are in the timeline of the end times.
Babylon the Great is the same city that will be hated and attacked by the nations of the beast. These same nations are listed in Ezek 38 and are the same nations which are killing Christians and Jews by beheading. These are also the same nations that have vowed to wipe Israel off the map. And these are the things that we can see on CNN happening right before our eyes.
There are those who strain a gasket trying to make the Roman Catholic Church fit as Babylon the Great. It isn't.
The OT prophets were not killed in Rome.
Our Lord was not killed in Rome.
The two prophets of Revelation won't be killed in Rome.
The winepress of the wrath of God is not near Rome.
And the same could be said for NYC. Neither NYC nor America is the mother of harlots. The *mother* of harlots has to be older than her daughters. Jerusalem and Israel were called harlots in the Bible long, long before the USA or the RCC even existed.
I don't see how it would be possible for anyone who read this whole post and still not know who Babylon the Great is. But if anyone has a question, feel free to ask.
Yours in Christ,
John Reno
ps I'm indebted to a man who calls himself "A Small Voice in the Wilderness" for pointing me in the right direction a few years ago about this. It was a major piece of the end times puzzle. Understanding who Babylon the Great is helps one to understand who the beast is, and vice-versa. Go read the OT prophets and notice how many *end times* references there are to Assyria, the king of Babylon, the Chaldeans. Also look up where the area of the king of the north (The Seleucid empire) from Alexander's empire was. Nimrod, Nebuchadnezzar, and Antiochus are commonly understood to be "types" of the antichrist. Now, what do Nimrod, Nebuchadnezzar, Antiochus, and Saddam Hussein all have in common?
Also, antichrists are not Christians who are from a different denomination. Antichrists are not lukewarm Christians. Antichrists are those who deny that Jesus is the Christ, (the Son of God) come in the flesh. No Christian, not even the Pope, denies that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, come in the flesh. Muslims and Jews deny that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God because they say that God *doesn't have* a Son!
Thank you lovinhim , Could you please narrow it down to a few key points. Thank you patrick
Guest_lovingHIM,
Briefly ....
I would agree with your rendering of MBG and the "great city part". Is the "great city" the USA? It really depends upon how close we are to the beginning of the time of the end. Things can change over time and the Lord may tarry for years ..... He may not. If close, then the USA is the only nation today that fits the description recorded in Revelation 18. If true, then I believe it will be the militants of Islam who will destroy the USA in one day. Again if true, then Satan's beast and followers will be the core Islamics of the Middle East. This scene is a real possibility.
MBG is actually symbolic all of intransigent humanity from Babel forward. At the time of the end this unfaithful "woman" will be a worldwide and connected condition of humanity. It is this very structure of human intransigence and self separation from the Lord that will bring His coming judgment ..... just like the flood did. All of what humans build in the process of human self government fails. This is because we are imperfect and sin laden. This "woman" corporately and historically produces the setting and potential for self destruction .... all who have been slain on the earth ..... in one way or another. A few have separated themselves and have chosen to believe and follow the Lord ... even though they still live in the world [the "woman"], but are not part of it. Think about it. Wars, conquest, discrimination, vice, greed, graft, materialism, love of money, false religion, etc....... all contribute to the ultimate death of the human spirit. These conditions have and do keep most humans from seeking a relationship with their Creator.
At the time of the end there will be a "great city" [possible a connected nation of united states]. This "great city" will be the "woman's" central core financial,economic and market place of the entire planet. This "great city's" fall will have devastating effects upon the entire world and will most likely create a blade runnner society for all. It is these conditions that will give rise to satan's beast and followers ..... and these will be the very ones to destroy the "great city". I see this action as part of satan's strategy to rule through his angelic and human agents and I see it as occuring early in the tribulation period ..... the very first judgment event. It is the Lord who will instigate this action Himself and He will bring down all of the "woman's other cities that are left at the end of the period. His intent will be to eliminate human self government and to rule the earth Himself. I also think that Revelation 18:4 records His command and removal of living believers just before the "great city" part of MBG is destroyed.
There is a contrasting "great city" in Chapter 11 and this is Jerusalem .... not the same as the "great city" of the Gentiles recorded in 17 and 18. Jerusalem has gone the same way as the "woman" of the Gentiles regarding intransigence and unbelief, but it is not the same in the visions. The Lord differentiates between Israel [Jerusalem] and the nations and when all other nations and their cities have fallen, He intends to make Jerusalem His capital during His millennial reign. It will be the center of the kingdom.
Briefly ....
I would agree with your rendering of MBG and the "great city part". Is the "great city" the USA? It really depends upon how close we are to the beginning of the time of the end. Things can change over time and the Lord may tarry for years ..... He may not. If close, then the USA is the only nation today that fits the description recorded in Revelation 18. If true, then I believe it will be the militants of Islam who will destroy the USA in one day. Again if true, then Satan's beast and followers will be the core Islamics of the Middle East. This scene is a real possibility.
MBG is actually symbolic all of intransigent humanity from Babel forward. At the time of the end this unfaithful "woman" will be a worldwide and connected condition of humanity. It is this very structure of human intransigence and self separation from the Lord that will bring His coming judgment ..... just like the flood did. All of what humans build in the process of human self government fails. This is because we are imperfect and sin laden. This "woman" corporately and historically produces the setting and potential for self destruction .... all who have been slain on the earth ..... in one way or another. A few have separated themselves and have chosen to believe and follow the Lord ... even though they still live in the world [the "woman"], but are not part of it. Think about it. Wars, conquest, discrimination, vice, greed, graft, materialism, love of money, false religion, etc....... all contribute to the ultimate death of the human spirit. These conditions have and do keep most humans from seeking a relationship with their Creator.
At the time of the end there will be a "great city" [possible a connected nation of united states]. This "great city" will be the "woman's" central core financial,economic and market place of the entire planet. This "great city's" fall will have devastating effects upon the entire world and will most likely create a blade runnner society for all. It is these conditions that will give rise to satan's beast and followers ..... and these will be the very ones to destroy the "great city". I see this action as part of satan's strategy to rule through his angelic and human agents and I see it as occuring early in the tribulation period ..... the very first judgment event. It is the Lord who will instigate this action Himself and He will bring down all of the "woman's other cities that are left at the end of the period. His intent will be to eliminate human self government and to rule the earth Himself. I also think that Revelation 18:4 records His command and removal of living believers just before the "great city" part of MBG is destroyed.
There is a contrasting "great city" in Chapter 11 and this is Jerusalem .... not the same as the "great city" of the Gentiles recorded in 17 and 18. Jerusalem has gone the same way as the "woman" of the Gentiles regarding intransigence and unbelief, but it is not the same in the visions. The Lord differentiates between Israel [Jerusalem] and the nations and when all other nations and their cities have fallen, He intends to make Jerusalem His capital during His millennial reign. It will be the center of the kingdom.
but the New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven....it does not originate with this world, or from this earth.
in this way, it is very different. Unique. The Only One of her mother. (song of songs 6:8-10.) the superlative song of 1005.
in this way, it is very different. Unique. The Only One of her mother. (song of songs 6:8-10.) the superlative song of 1005.
Briefly ....
The "new Jerusalem" is the subject of chapter 21 ..... after the tribulation period and after the Lord's millennial kingdom is over. This "new Jerusalem" will be a part of eternity. The city of Jerusalem of the tribulation period and the millennium is the Jerusalem of today.
The "new Jerusalem" is the subject of chapter 21 ..... after the tribulation period and after the Lord's millennial kingdom is over. This "new Jerusalem" will be a part of eternity. The city of Jerusalem of the tribulation period and the millennium is the Jerusalem of today.
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