Here are some things I discovered (you may already know ) but it certainly cannot hurt to bring His Word to remembrence:

We all know the story but we forget & neglect sometimes the simple things (2 Corinth 1:12), that's what can happen by seeking and searching too deep, when the answer(s) are already supplied (1 Corinth 1:27). It's like saying "No God, that's not enough or that cannot be, there must be more, and there must be some hidden secret unrevealed in the Word of what really happen" That is the danger zone we are warned through and through to steer clear of and the only way is through the Christ mind-set. Lest we fall into temptation through or even to a satanically induced mind-set or famously known in this forum as "Serpent Seed". By putting our thoughts and our mind above God's, this is where we can fall subject to temptation-thus the garden scenerio! (2 Corinth 10:5, 2 Corinth 11:3, 2 Thess 2:4)

Adam was precious to God, created in His image even (Gen 1:27)! How awesome! God brought Adam gifts and gave Adam the authority and dominion over wonderful creatures and vegetations of the earth (Gen 2:19) the whole reason God created the earth was to create a man to tend it and keep it and bring forth, multiplying seed; vegetation AND human life (Genesis-all). God wanted a people to dwell with Himself! We read this in Scripture-through and through. So Yahweh also makes a woman for Adam from Adam's own body (Gen 2:22)-our God is fantastic, He even presented the woman to man, as a gift/help-meet. He blesses them (Gen 5:2).

Two points of truth to pause now and consider:
1. The location of the tree of knowledge of good and evil (midst of the garden)
2. The location of the serpent (field)


Yahweh commands Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil (Gen 2:17). And also Eve (Gen 3:3) Yahweh tells Adam and Eve that in the day they do eat from the tree; they will surely die ( Gen 2:17) Why would they die? Because sin is a result of disobedience unto God and death is a result of sin. God was being honest as He always is. Now we are introduced to the serpent (Gen 3:1) We also know that the woman is the weaker vessel (1 Peter 3:7) So the serpent beguiled's Eve into believing "they shall not die" but rather their eyes will be opened and shall be as god's, knowing good from evil (Gen 3:4-5) Therein is where the 'seed' of the serpent was planted in Eve's mind. And by her belief of the serpent over Yahweh, she thus did eat from the tree and also gave to her husband. Now let's look closely at Scripture, because here is where false teachings swing into action:

Genesis 3:6
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

The woman is no longer looking at the serpent; she is looking upon the tree of knowledge of good and evil, she see's it is good for food and pleasant to the eyes and it is a tree to be desired because...it can make one wise. She obviously is so tricked she forget's what God said and takes fruit from the tree and eats. But not just her, she gives to Adam and he also eats. So unless the tree is homosexual-which it is NOT, then there was not sex with the tree, nor with the serpent. Both Adam and Eve partook of the tree, not just Eve! Remember simplicity here, not corrupt imaginiations or "fruit that will make one wise" lest you also find yourself being beguiled right along with Eve. This is a lesson!

Now after Adam and Eve ate from the tree, their eyes were opened and they were ashamed, thus they "knew they were naked", we know this because:

Genesis 2:25
And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.


And we understand this because *The Word always interprets itself*

Revelation 16:15
Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.


Next comes punishment from disobedience.

I'll wrap this up here and I hope and pray that we can study together and discuss rather than argue, name call and dispute. Let's remember it isn't about you, or me. If you want to call me names and argue, please send me personal messages or make a separate thread for "venting" but let's atleast have respect for God's Word and either contribute or refrain. This is God's Word first hand and we must care for it to keep it Holy.

~Blessings

Good post Selah. The harlot or Laodicean Church is described as naked and wretched as well.
Clearly we can see that they have clothes on because they don't even know they are naked. Indeed, these people are most likely pathetic pharisees. They view themselves as being so above board and so holy before God that they don't realize how He really views them. These people are rich, they have plenty of goods but their lamps are empty. They worship A god but not the true and living God. Rather, they worship a god that is in "their own image". Meaning, they take what they like from the revealed Word of God and discount what they don't like thus don't understand.

Surely not good samaritans. Most likely the type of people who walk past the poor and disheveled and tell stories about how the poor make so much money on the streets begging; never considering that Lazarus himself was a beggar and was more likely to have been in his impoverished state because of opposition from satan just as Job encountered.

God tells us why His people are on the street; because they are upright with good hearts, not because they are wretched.

Anyhoo:

This is the same movement that was abounding 2000 years ago. They don't love their brother. They view their brother as a small segment within their Church of people who are LIKE THEM.

I would imagine that Adam and Eve were actually truely naked in the garden of Eden. First of all they were married partners and if one is married in their own house, being physically naked with your partner is no big deal. Nonetheless, the spiritual concept of naked is aptly explained in The Revelation of Jesus Christ as you have mentionned above. Nice study! Good job.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;


Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.


Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.


Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

People that have not studied the manuscripts or the Hebrew should not be trying to give the account of Genesis!!!!

The first error they make is telling people Adam was created here::::

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

I cant seem to copy the Hebrew script over which would make this very simple to understand very very simple so
I will explain...........

Final Mem Daled Aleph---------These letters make up the word Adam,,,,,which in hebrew means mankind or man in general or men,,,IT DOES NOT,,,I REPEAT ,,IT DOES NOT mean 1 particular man Adam!!!! that is listed below.......

Patach Taf Aleph Final Daled Aleph Final--------These letters make up Adams name yes Adam the husband of Eve 1 particular man.......


Does anyone see the difference here????????? 2 very different words meaning to very different things.......

Now some ignorant people will try and tell you Adam was created in Genesis 1:26 thats bull dont believe it mankind waqs created in Genesis

So when you read the bible and you come acroos this:::: 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, PLEASE NOTE THE WORD IS MANKIND......

ADAM WAS CREATED HERE::::::

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. KJV

But dont take my word for it,,,do the research,,,Hebrew is a very simple language why easier then english......Do the research and dont listen to ignorant christians who act like they know it all.......

NM the Hebrew

He claims to be one of the 144,000 sealed

and yet he does not even know which tribe of Israel he is from

O really you liar,,,why dont you post the post where I said it..............But you wont because I never said it.....

So you cant defeat my doctrine so you lie on my name......

I have more then one race in me,,,,,but mostly black,,,if I have any Israel blood in me I dont know what is you freakin liar,,,,now post where I said it,,,,or be known as the liar you are......

Gen 1:26
ויאמר אלהים נעשׂה אדם בצלמנו כדמותנו וירדו בדגת הים ובעוף השׁמים ובבהמה ובכל־הארץ ובכל־הרמשׂ הרמשׂ על־הארץ׃

Thanks researcher Your script is a little different then mine,,,,in mine they wrote all fancy and jazz,,,,,,


But 9th word/charcters is this::: Final Mem Daled Aleph which does not mean 'eth haa-'adam

Boy that was easy.....So the author of this thread has begun there teaching on the wrong note........

Thanks researcher Your script is a little different then mine,,,,in mine they wrote all fancy and jazz,,,,,,


But 9th word/characters is this::: Final Mem Daled Aleph which does not mean 'eth haa-'adam

Boy that was easy.....So the author of this thread has begun there teaching on the wrong note.....or should I say characters ...

Stephen....why do you continue to say that? Both Nightmare and I have explained that he is not of Adamic descent and therefore....is not of the tribes.

How's this:

Kinda small...but thats more how mine looks,,,it seems to jusy very depending on the author the letters arent different,,,,but the style in which they were written is,,,,,I actually like the simple ones without the fancy,,,,,but sometime they get a little hard to seperate....

Thank you Patmos for confirming the connections, it does certainly appear to be happening today! That's why we should at the least I mean at the very least, take the accounts given in the Bible as ensamples and lessons. All Scripture is profitable for these things. I'm pleased the you enjoyed the study and contributed in like manner; with respect for God's Holy Word

I consider also Laodicea as one of the most devestating accounts of a person or body who considers and see's themselves as having it all-yet so blind by their own pride and vanity-they actually have nothing. Of all the warnings in Revelation and all the reprovals, I would not want to be spewed out of Messiah's mouth! That terrifies me, to always check myself to be sure I'm not getting puffed up. Because also: The LORD giveth and also He taketh:
Job 12:24
He taketh away the heart of the chief of the people of the earth, and causeth them to wander in a wilderness where there is no way.

I'd like to continue on with the study...if you're interested and have time, please by all means continue with where God turns to the serpent to punish...anyone is welcome!
~Blessings

There are not two accounts of Creation in Genesis. I'm well aware of that particular doctrine circulating as well. Keep in mind that the Torah was not originally divided into chapters it was entirely written upon a scroll, so the division/chapters can be a little misleading *if you allow it* otherwise we can be sure there was only one Creation-a second one coming through Yahshua. Both Genesis 1:26 & Genesis 2:7 are the same. Look at Gen 2:15:And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

*The word Adam/man is derived from the Hebrew word adamah 'earth' to signify that man is earth-born.

The second chapter in Genesis is vital to have because it is the more initmate *one on one* account of what took place in the garden regarding the fall etc.., so without it, many people would not understand why we even have to be redeemed and the importance of being obedient toward God, our Creator and Father.

So we continue this study with the punishments, picking up at Chapter 3 vs. 14. But first let's recall the reaction of the woman and man when they were confronted by Yahweh for what happened.

The man blames the woman which God made for him (Gen 3:12) Yahweh turns to the woman and asks her what she has done (Gen 3:13) and she blames the serpent. Notice something here. Neither of them are willing to take account for what they have done and thus neither show a repentant heart whatsoever, they are ashamed but not willing to confess before God their fault. This same nature is prevelant in mankind today, it seems an impossible feat almost for a person to stand up and take responsibility for their own act of disobedience. But in order to be forgiven, we have to, because repentance and forgiveness go hand in hand. So now the serpent is in the spotlight per say and yet 'it' has noone to turn to and blame and God does not even ask it, He simply begins the punishment (Gen 3:14) and curses the serpent all the day's of it's life.

Genesis 3:15 has caused a great amount of confusion, which in turn makes it even more difficult to bring understanding of or to. Once the mind has already fully conceived a situation and believes it, it is then very difficult to undo, redo or shed light to etc...But it can be done, with a willingness to accept truth which can be further supplied through Scripture. Many people fail to see that this is a prophecy or peek into our coming Messiah who did come and did bruise the seed of sin, with a crushing victory of being crucified in the *flesh* for mankind also gave us redemtion and eternal life, where before there was death and sin. If we add any other speculation to that passage, we lose one of the most important insights into God's future redemption plan for all makind-thus we give glory to the enemy rather than to our loving Creator who had a plan right then and there.

Isaiah 53:10
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

1 Corinthians 15:55
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Isaiah 53:5
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Romans 16:20
And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

Next : Woman and Man's punishment...

Gen 2:7 And Jehovah God formed man (Adam, the created son of God - Luke 3:38) of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Gen 2:8 And Jehovah God planted a garden eastward, in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made Jehovah God to grow every tree (people) that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Gen 2:15 And Jehovah God took the man (Adam, the created son of God), and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. (to dress and protect the people)


Eze 31:3 Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a forest-like shade, and of high stature; and its top was among the thick boughs.
Eze 31:4 The waters nourished it, the deep made it to grow: the rivers thereof ran round about its plantation; and it sent out its channels unto all the trees of the field.
Eze 31:5 Therefore its stature was exalted above all the trees of the field; and its boughs were multiplied, and its branches became long by reason of many waters, when it shot them forth.
Eze 31:6 All the birds of the heavens made their nests in its boughs; and under its branches did all the beasts of the field bring forth their young; and under its shadow dwelt all great nations.
Eze 31:7 Thus was it fair in its greatness, in the length of its branches; for its root was by many waters.
Eze 31:8 The cedars in the garden of God could not hide it; the fir-trees were not like its boughs, and the plane-trees were not as its branches; nor was any tree in the garden of God like unto it in its beauty.
Eze 31:9 I made it fair by the multitude of its branches, so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied it.
Eze 31:10 Therefore thus said the Lord Jehovah: Because thou art exalted in stature, and he hath set his top among the thick boughs, and his heart is lifted up in his height;
Eze 31:11 I will even deliver him into the hand of the mighty one of the nations; he shall surely deal with him; I have driven him out for his wickedness.
Eze 31:12 And strangers, the terrible of the nations, have cut him off, and have left him: upon the mountains and in all the valleys his branches are fallen, and his boughs are broken by all the watercourses of the land; and all the peoples of the earth are gone down from his shadow, and have left him.
Eze 31:13 Upon his ruin all the birds of the heavens shall dwell, and all the beasts of the field shall be upon his branches;
Eze 31:14 to the end that none of all the trees by the waters exalt themselves in their stature, neither set their top among the thick boughs, nor that their mighty ones stand up on their height, even all that drink water: for they are all delivered unto death, to the nether parts of the earth, in the midst of the children of men, with them that go down to the pit.
Eze 31:15 Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: In the day when he went down to Sheol I caused a mourning: I covered the deep for him, and I restrained the rivers thereof; and the great waters were stayed; and I caused Lebanon to mourn for him, and all the trees of the field fainted for him.
Eze 31:16 I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to Sheol with them that descend into the pit; and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, were comforted in the nether parts of the earth.
Eze 31:17 They also went down into Sheol with him unto them that are slain by the sword; yea, they that were his arm, that dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the nations.
Eze 31:18 To whom art thou thus like in glory and in greatness among the trees of Eden? yet shalt thou be brought down with the trees of Eden unto the nether parts of the earth: thou shalt lie in the midst of the uncircumcised, with them that are slain by the sword.


Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
Eze 28:13 Thou wast in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, the topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was in thee; in the day that thou wast created they were prepared.
Eze 28:14 Thou wast the anointed cherub that covereth: and I set thee, so that thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till unrighteousness was found in thee.
Eze 28:16 By the abundance of thy traffic they filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore have I cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God; and I have destroyed thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:17 Thy heart was lifted up because of thy beauty; thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I have cast thee to the ground; I have laid thee before kings, that they may behold thee.


Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, that didst lay low the nations!
Isa 14:13 And thou saidst in thy heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; and I will sit upon the mount of congregation, in the uttermost parts of the north;
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to Sheol, to the uttermost parts of the pit.
Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall gaze at thee, they shall consider thee, saying, Is this the ***man*** that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms
Isa 14:17 that made the world as a wilderness, and overthrew the cities thereof; that let not loose his prisoners to their home?


Jdg 9:8 The trees went forth on a time to anoint a king over them; and they said unto the olive-tree, Reign thou over us.
Jdg 9:9 But the olive-tree said unto them, Should I leave my fatness, wherewith by me they honor God and man, and go to wave to and fro over the trees?
Jdg 9:10 And the trees said to the fig-tree, Come thou, and reign over us.
Jdg 9:11 But the fig-tree said unto them, Should I leave my sweetness, and my good fruit, and go to wave to and fro over the trees?


The trees in the garden of Eden were people, and, Adam, the son of God, was put there to rule them.

As in the beginning, so in the end:

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth proceedeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of God, the Almighty.

Adam, the created son of God, failed, so, Jesus, the only begotten son of God, came to destroy the works of Satan and put everything back the way it was supposed to be. Thus He and the sons of God will rule the nations, as it should have been. That's it. No mystery. It's a course correction.

Researcher, may ask what your fixation is with trees? There are literal trees and men as figures of trees in the Bible. I am familiar with all the passages you provided. But we know there was mankind, womankind, trees and vegetation, beasts and serpent. God did not associate them as trees; the serpent was a beast of the field, not associated with a tree. The man was formed out of the dust of the earth and God breathed life into his nostrils and then made woman from one of man's ribs. Genesis is very clear on this. Man and woman were allowed to eat from any tree in the garden except the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Eat, because the trees were good for food, there is nothing in that account given that they could slay animals and eat, so God gave them trees to eat from, and the tree of life was there and they were free to eat from that tree as well.

The error in the theory that there was sex in the garden is blatent. Because anyone who say's that all the trees were men in the garden and Eve had sex with the serpent (which is always confused with the tree of knowledge of good and evil, yet clearly they are SEPARATE) is "also" saying that Adam and Eve were free to have sex with all the trees/men in the garden. People who believe the sex in the garden farce do not acknowledge at all what they believe or are saying as a "whole". It's as equivalent as saying 2+2=4 and 2+3=4 also, there is only one truth not half truths that only meet to one's standards of imagination and then stops at the point when you cannot argue any longer-without confessing or admitting the scope of the lie etc..


Many people say 'eat' means sex or 'touch' means sex. Here is the passage in question, this is what Eve say's to the serpent:

Genesis 3:3
But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

God however said this:

Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Clearly anyone can see Eve added to what God said, we do not know why, my best guess would be that it was out of innocence and she was reemphasizing the command to "leave the fruit alone" period, don't even touch it! Perhaps Adam told her that, we do not know. However, the word is naga, and literally means touch as in extending the hand. That same word is used here:

Gen 28:12
And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek Concordances are helpful tools to understanding original languages, however there can be sometimes 20 or more meanings for one word, even naga has several meanings, so at that point we need to rely on our best discernment and rely on the translators of the Bible that they applied the proper English word for the Hebrew/Greek meaning, otherwise we must then retranslate the Bible ourselves which can be quite dangerous actually, you might wind up with an entirely different Book! We must consider and also believe that even though man makes mistakes, and there may be a few slight errors of translation, God was positively moving in the hearts of those chosen to translate the Bible into various languages, if we are to believe otherwise, then we must toss the book out as fallible.

So all in all...were there other humans in the garden? I believe so. I believe Adam and Eve are ensamples oe examples(personal accounts given as a whole of what happened). Because for one thing, if only 2 people disobeyed God's command, then we would not be in this fallen state. All of mankind fell in the garden and subsequently the tree of life was guarded, until later...now all of mankind is invited to the redemption offering given by God. We screwed up, and God saves us, pretty simple and yet very humbling and moving to realise what a loving and merciful Creator we have.

As far as humans go, there were only two in the garden. The sin of Adam, to disobey God is carried with and unto all of mankind. We "all" die !

Even though we all sin, it is not "our" sin(s) that leads to all of mankind dying. It was the sin of one -> Adam. Not the sin of two !

In Christ - M M

There isn't anything in there about sex in the garden. Only about God putting a son there to rule. The trees were mankind, and, Adam was a son of God, put there to rule. That's all it says.

Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek Concordances are helpful tools to understanding original languages, however there can be sometimes 20 or more meanings for one word, even naga has several meanings, so at that point we need to rely on our best discernment and rely on the translators


Why tell people this??????Just because you dont understand thebrew doesnt mean you shouls discourage others from studying the languages,,,,,,,and what your saying isnt even true,,,,,,,,With Hebrew article and particle allow the reader to render the correct defenitions,,,,it simply cant be changed......Your telling people there to many defenitons to choose from so believe what the translator writes,,,,well my bible a KJV has a letter from the writers explaining the problems they had with turning the language............

Just another weak attempt to discourge people from using the strongs......Why???????????Becaause the writers of the torah and masorah and the strongs concordance shows your doctrine is false................

The bible clearly tells that the tree of knowledge is the serpent/satan,,,,,,and the hebrew backs up it up.......

3Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs.

DO you know who the assaryian is?????well its satan!!!!!!!

4The waters made him great, the deep set him up on high with her rivers running round about his plants, and sent her little rivers unto all the trees of the field.

5Therefore his height was exalted above all the trees of the field, and his boughs were multiplied, and his branches became long because of the multitude of waters, when he shot forth.

6All the fowls of heaven made their nests in his boughs, and under his branches did all the beasts of the field bring forth their young, and under his shadow dwelt all great nations.

7Thus was he fair in his greatness, in the length of his branches: for his root was by great waters.

8The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chestnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty.

9I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him.

10Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast lifted up thyself in height, and he hath shot up his top among the thick boughs, and his heart is lifted up in his height;

11I have therefore delivered him into the hand of the mighty one of the heathen; he shall surely deal with him: I have driven him out for his wickedness.

The Lord created man from the dust of the ground and commanded the man not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (this tree represents Satan) which was in the midst of the Garden of Eden. The fruit that this tree produced was lies. Eve listen to the lies that were told to her by Satan, she believed him and told the lies to Adam. He listened to the voice of his wife and their disobedience toward God's commandment, to not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil brought death upon them as well as upon all mankind.

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 6:23)

So now Satan has destroyed man, God's creation, through iniquity. So the Lord sought out faithful men to serve him (Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob) so that he could redeem the creation. He made his covenant with Abraham, then passed it down to his seed Isaac, then to Jacob, then to Jacob's 12 sons, for which Moses came out of the lineage of Levi.

And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, ‘Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel; Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself. Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words, which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel." (Exodus 19:3-6)

Adam was a son of God. A son of God fell, and subsequently, mankind.

Luk 3:38 the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the likeness of Adam's transgression,
who is a figure of him that was to come.

You're right, Adam is a son of God, alone with the rest of the name written in luke 3 chapter 24-38



This is a good verse to explain to people, that even thoughs the prophets kept the royal law, including moses, if Jesus
didn't come the whole creation would of died.

Its just like a person in jail with very good behavior, repented, a change man, but can't get out unlest someone bail
him out. Verse 17,18

Roman 5:17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Thats what Grace is sisters and brothers, a free gift.

I know Researcher. I was addressing you and then continuing along with the study-in the same post, so I apologise if you felt it was all toward you. I was under the impression also that you were one of the members who believes the sex in the garden farce. I'm pleased to know that you are not. I figured if we could all study together, then we could undrestand together. There is so much separation and division, truly uncalled for in this forum. Hardly anyone seems willing to bend for another member. I see questions flying around like bullets with the expectation that others are going to catch them and answer to their standards. I hate leaving questions unanswered, but I know that they are only traps sometimes...so I ignore them, to avoid conflict I suppose. Anyway, just venting, I'm feeling very meloncholy this night. Depressed about the shape the body is in. I heard that song "If we are the body" by casting crowns tonight in the car and it brought tears to my eyes, because it's true...if we are the body, why aren't His arms reaching? Why aren't His hands healing? Why aren't His words teaching?

I don't understand why so many people see the tree of knowledge of good and evil as a representation of satan? Am I missing something in my Bible or my hard head? The tree is in the midst of the garden and Adam was commanded not to eat from it.

The serpent is a beast of the field-unless the tree is the field, which we know is the world? Even so..serpent is a separate entity all together. Otherwise Eve would have been speaking to the tree of knowledge of good and evil, but she was speaking to the serpent and beguiled to eat from the tree.

That knowledge of good and evil is it not God's?? He created the tree, it belongs to Him. So how can the tree be filled with lies? It is filled with knowledge of good and evil; that is knowing good from evil this is why the tree of life had to be immediately protected.

An interesting question might be, why is only the tree of life shown on the new earth (Rev 22:2), and not the tree of knowledge of good and evil? We don't hear about it anymore, but, both the tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil were there in the beginning.

Could the tree of knowledge be the 'world'? Not the earth so much as the earth and world are different, you know what I mean? World=Babylon.

I did a Bible search for every time the word tree came up (and also vine, branch, bough etc). If it doesn't mean a literal tree, it is usually used as a symbol for people, or, a line of people.

Like this:

Eze 17:2 Son of man, put forth a riddle, and speak a parable unto the house of Israel;
Eze 17:3 and say, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: A great eagle with great wings and long pinions, full of feathers, which had divers colors, came unto Lebanon, and took the top of the cedar:
Eze 17:4 he cropped off the topmost of the young twigs thereof, and carried it unto a land of traffic; he set it in a city of merchants.
Eze 17:5 He took also of the seed of the land, and planted it in a fruitful soil; he placed it beside many waters; he set it as a willow-tree.
Eze 17:6 And it grew, and became a spreading vine of low stature, whose branches turned toward him, and the roots thereof were under him: so it became a vine, and brought forth branches, and shot forth sprigs.

And then the interpretation 5 verses later:

Eze 17:11 Moreover the word of Jehovah came unto me, saying,
Eze 17:12 Say now to the rebellious house, Know ye not what these things mean?
tell them, Behold, the king of Babylon came to Jerusalem, and took the king thereof, and the princes thereof, and brought them to him to Babylon:
Eze 17:13 and he took of the seed royal, and made a covenant with him; he also brought him under an oath, and took away the mighty of the land;

There are a lot of references to trees being people (symbolically). I don't think tree is used in another way. I'll have to go back over my notes.

So, the king was the top of the cedar, the princes the twigs, the seed the royal line, and, they were all replanted in Babylon.

For the sex in the garden subject, I would go here to see how the subject was originally broached.
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...c=17754&hl=
Some approached it studiously, some, not so much, lol. You can see as some of us looked into whether it was logically/scripturally possible.

The most interesting topic was this one made specifically for Damo and Nightmare to... debate, lol: Read the 1st 3 pages of exchange between Damo and NM and take note of the demeanor, lol.
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...=22423&st=0

Then, the demeanor changes in this post (becomes... nicer, lol):
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...st&p=224901

And Damo explains a bit of why the change in tone:
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...st&p=224907

And a little more in this post.
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...st&p=225141

That's where I would start on that subject. You can tell the posters in there that were mostly there to sling ad-hominems rather than study. You can probably skip over those as there isn't too much to be learned from personal insults (althought they were on both sides. ).

If trees are "only" used symbolically, then there are no literal trees ! Where has common sense gone ? Just because God used trees as examples, does in no way mean that God used trees symbolically everywhere in the Word of God !

The trees in Genesis are literal trees. People, God just planted a garden ! He didn't "plant" people into the ground to watch them grow ! He took man out of the ground !

IN Christ - M M

Nobody said that all the trees where "Atsah, aw-tsaw/Atseh, aw-tseh,,,,when you read the manuscripts there ETS all over the place,,,,,,,but the Tress in the garden are not "ETS" it reads as Atsah, aw-tsaw,,,WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO GET IT THREW YOUR THICK HEAD,,,,,,YOUR NOT SMARTER THEN THE WRITERS OF THE MANUSCRIPTS AND YOU CANT CHANGE THE WORD Atsah, aw-tsaw TO "ets"

Hey,,,researcher,,,what do you believed happen?????

What He showed me happened.

Someone posted this dream a few days ago. It's telling.

http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=25934

I remember reading that......Its interesting.....I will go back and read it again,,,,it sometimes takes a while to interpret dreams correctly.....

The Hebrew word for "tree" is ets. And here are all the passages where "ets" is used:

Strong's Number: 06086 or 6086
Hebrew Word:
Transliterated Word: `ets
Book to Display: Genesis
Verse Count: 25

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew...amp;version=kjv
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Ge 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
Ge 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Ge 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Ge 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Ge 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Ge 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Ge 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Ge 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Ge 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Ge 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Ge 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
Ge 3:11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
Ge 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
Ge 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
Ge 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Ge 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
Ge 6:14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
Ge 18:4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:
Ge 18:8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.
Ge 22:3 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ---, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.
Ge 22:6 And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.
Ge 22:7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
Ge 22:9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood.
Ge 23:17 And the field of Ephron, which was in Machpelah, which was before Mamre, the field, and the cave which was therein, and all the trees that were in the field, that were in all the borders round about, were made sure
Ge 40:19 Yet within three days shall Pharaoh lift up thy head from off thee, and shall hang thee on a tree; and the birds shall eat thy flesh from off thee.

Strong's Number: 06095 or 6095
atsah is used in Proverbs and means "to shut".

Strong's Number : 06096 or 6096 (from the root 6095)
atseh is used in Leviticus and means "backbone"

So I don't know what "manuscripts" you have and how you are using them/it but either one; your manuscript is flawed or two; you have no idea what you are doing or even both. You are attempting to make words fit to legitimate your false doctrine and teaching.

You've been marked.

Hi Selah,

Lets go into Gensis an examine a few things.

Gensis 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Now verse 8, talks about the man (Adam) God have form, this is before the Woman (Eve).

Now verse 9, We got Four different type a trees in this verse, lets brake them down.

1) tree that is pleasant to the sight

2) tree for food

3) tree in the midst of the garden (Jesus)

4) tree of knowledge of good and evil (satan)

Lets go a little futher...

Matthew 3:10 - And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree whic