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Stephen
This is an excellent slide show of the territories of the ancient Middle Eastern Empires .... past and present

http://www.mapsofwar.com/images/EMPIRE17.swf

The Bible prophets cover these empires through the Asian Greek

The visions then breach to the time of the end which is still future

Several different successive dominions have ruled there since just before the first century

None of these are included in the scope of the visions of the Bible prophets

This geographical area is divided today with the presence of Israel in the mix again

This setting will be transformed into the kingdom of satan's beast and his followers during the tribulation period
taltimbr
QUOTE (Stephen @ Nov 17 2008, 05:18 PM) *
This is an excellent slide show of the territories of the ancient Middle Eastern Empires .... past and present

http://www.mapsofwar.com/images/EMPIRE17.swf

The Bible prophets cover these empires through the Asian Greek

The visions then breach to the time of the end which is still future

Several different successive dominions have ruled there since just before the first century

None of these are included in the scope of the visions of the Bible prophets

This geographical ares is divided today with the presence of Israel in the mix again

This setting will be transformed into the kingdom of satan's beast and his followers during the tribulation period



1dsz5f1.gif

The Romans were in charge of Israel proper during the ministery days of Christ our Lord. Many end-time ministries have the revived Roman empire
as the last world leaders, which in their fullness reach out and encompass the entire world because of the "kings" that are in cahoots with the a/c.
This is why alot of the present end time ministries see the R/C religion as the end-time false prophet.
We look at the world stage now and we see that the EU is the next in size of economies to the USA. The US is loosing their dominance on the world
scene do to the economic downturn and a massive debt built up financing 2 wars on the other side of the world. The R/C is a world-wide religion with
plenty of political pull in most regions of the world. We always see newly elected politicians travel to the Vatican to meet with the pontiff of the time and
many politicians become Catholics if they are not already.. it will be interesting to see Mr. Obamas travel plans once inaugrurated.
Any world leader at present would need the USA to be "onside" if they wanted to lead the entire world. Many have speculated that Mr. Clinton and
"W" Bush were playing the role for the coming world leader.. some even think that Mr. Obama will be Americas last president before the world is
brought to submission by willing kings of the earth acting in full accord with the A/C.

I pray that people will have their hearts and minds opened to end of days activities.

Praise the Lord and saviour Jesus Christ.

1dsz5e4.gif
taltimbr
Stephen
I believe that the Bible prophets visions are focused upon the Middle East and not Europe

Revelation tells us that the beast has only 7 kingdoms [heads]

We know that the first 5 have already come and gone

There are only two left

We also know that a number of different rulers of the Middle East have existed since then including Rome

None of these are kingdoms of satan's beast who only has 7

He once "was" [ruling over the first 5 .... the last was the northern Greek .... Syrio/Babylonia], then was "not" .... and still is not

And he will come out of the abyss [yet "is"] to rule again

This must mean that the scope of the prophets visions is limited and does not present Middle eastern rulers from the first century up to this day

When Rome ruled .... the beast was "not"

Satan was and has been active throughout the last 2,000 years, but his beast who ruled for him in the Middle East is still in the abyss where he cannot interact with humanity

If the last 2,000 years was in the scope then the visions would contain many more than just 7 consecutive rulers of the Middle East

The beast and his followers will rise out of the geographics of the ancient Middle East where he ruled before the first century

The visions of the time of the end recorded in Ezekiel and Daniel attest to this fact

This is the area where Israel has returned and is surrounded by the nation's ancient enemies

This must be the setting for the time of the end

The nations outside of the Middle East will be subdued by the beast and his followers during the tribulation period

This same area is where the Lord will rule from Jerusalem just after the tribulation period

If we are close to the begining of the time of the end, the beast [the little horn] and his followers will be the Islamics of the Middle East

Scripture identifies these ancient enemies of Israel who are the same inhabitants of the Middle East today

Daniel’s vision of the primary rulers of the Middle East is limited in scope and the student of Bible prophecy needs to consider this when interpreting those of the ancient past and future. Distinct changes of the elements in the scope of the vision represent changes in human rule of the Middle East except for the 6th and the 7th where the iron element is contained in both. These are the major rulers of the Middle East from ancient times to the present:

Post Flood (not included in the vision of the image)
1. Land of Magog ad his brothers
2. Akkadian/Assyrian

Ancient Image Elements
3. Neo-Babylonian – One head of gold

(Medo/Persian) – Two arms of silver
4. Persian – One chest of silver

5. Greek – One belly of Bronze
(Greek North/South) – Two thighs of bronze

Non-Image Elements (not included in the vision of the image)
These are all subsequent major rulers of the Middle East with distinctive changes, but they do not appear in the scope of visionary prophecy and all exist between the end of the 69th week decreed for national Israel and the beginning of the future 70th week.

Roman
Arabian
Seljuk
Kurd
Mongol
Mamluk
Turk
British
10 primary Islamic nation states and Israel (current)

Future Image Elements
6. Unnamed (North (little horn)/South) – Two - legs of iron
7. Unnamed (10 divisions ruled by little horn/beast) – Feet and toes of iron and clay
8. The Lord’s millennial Kingdom – Stone

There is a break in the image elements presented between the 5th and the 6th. This period represents the last 2,000+ years of history (list of non-image elements) and is still running. It corresponds with the lapse time of the 70 weeks of years (490 years) decreed for national Israel which began in 445 B.C. under Persian rule. 483 years of this time lapse transpired at approximately 33 A.D and the balance of 7 years is still pending. This future period will include the future image elements of the 6th and 7th which are unnamed and unknown, and then the Lord’s millennial Kingdom which will replace all human rule, will be centered in Israel and the Middle East, and will include the entire world.

Daniel’s other corresponding vision of the 4 “beast” dominions of the Middle East includes the rule of Neo-Babylon, Persia, and Alexander’s Asian dominion (his kingdom was broken and the two bronze thighs represent the kingdoms of the northern and southern Greeks who ruled the Middle East, one north of Jerusalem and one south). The 4th dominion is a combination of the 6th and 7th elements of the unnamed and unknown rulers of the Middle East at the future time of the end. The 6th will be the northern iron leg (northern sector of the Middle East) of the little horn/beast who will conquer the southern iron leg, the rest of the Middle East, and Israel. He will rule over the Middle East for 42 months with 10 other kings, will cause horrific destruction and upheaval for the rest of the world, and then his kingdom will be destroyed and replaced by the Lord’s millennial Kingdom.

Revelation has this same identical line up and limited scope of image elements and they are described as the 7 heads (dominions) of Satan’s angelic beast who rules over the Middle East. The first two elements not included in Daniel’s vision are added to the next 5 in the scope bringing the total to the 7 dominions of the Middle East. This is why the beast has 7 heads (dominions) in the scope of the visions of which 5 have fallen (are historical) and two will exist in the future in succession. The 6th will be the one that “is” (at the beginning of the 70th week) and the 7th will follow. The beast’s 6th rule will be a small (little horn) northern kingdom located in the Middle East, and he will expand it into the 7th divided kingdom of iron and clay. The chapters for study are Daniel 2, 7, and 8; Revelation 17.

The return of Abaddon-Apollyon, a fallen angelic, is a given in scripture and just who the little human horn will be is not known yet.

The little horn will appear in the northern Middle East rising up among 10 other Middle Eastern kings who will follow him at the time of the end .... his appearance will occur just at the beginning of the tribulation period.

Abaddon is the first beast of Revelation who will come out of the abyss .... released by satan. Here the term "beast" is used to describe a fallen angelic.

This term is used differently in Daniel's visions and symbolizes the succession of different Middle Eastern empires ... three historical and the future and last of Abaddon-Apollyon's human dominions.

This final dominion will include two phases ... a 6th smaller dominion in the northern Middle East followed quickly by an expanded dominion of the region with 10 other kings.

His presence on the earth and actions are noted specifically in chapters 9, 11, 13, 14, 16, 17, and 19. He is the "angelic prince" that shall come to rule again and stand against the Messiah Prince ....Jesus Christ at the time of the end [Daniel 9:24-27].

This beast [in the little horn] will conquer the Middle East including Israel, and will fend off all other national opposition including the noted destruction of the "great city" [civilization] of the Gentiles [Revelation 17,18].

Those who oppose his rule from the south, far east, and far north outside of the Middle East proper will be vanquished [Daniel 11:36-44, 12:7].

The Lord's two Israelite prophets will stand for the Lord against this entity and his false prophet [also a fallen angelic who will manifest in two human cleric leaders of the two main branches of Islam] during his 42 month rule of a conquered Israel [last 1,260 days of the 7 year tribulation period].

The Lord will protect His two prophets during their service which will take place in Jerusalem, which will be occupied by the little horn and his followers .... the adherents of Islam.

The Lord will then turn on him and his human followers and destroy them in the next 30 days consumating in the battle of Armageddon [Revelation 16, 19].

The beast and the false prophet will be destroyed in the lake of fire [only the Lord can destroy angelics], the little horn and his followers will become bird food and their remains will be buried by Israel, and satan will be tossed into the same abyss where the beast was before his release [Revelation 19,20].

Mohammud's claims of a visitation by Gabriel were false and he was most likely visited by satan .... or it is possible that he just made the whole story up to support his ambitions of control and conquest.

The situation in the Middle East today is ripe for the coming of the "other prince" .... the Mahdi of the Islamic nation.
taltimbr
QUOTE (Stephen @ Nov 17 2008, 09:05 PM) *
I believe that the Bible prophets visions are focused upon the Middle East and not Europe

Revelation tells us that the beast has only 7 kingdoms [heads]

We know that the first 5 have already come and gone

There are only two left

We also know that a number of different rulers of the Middle East have existed since then including Rome

None of these are kingdoms of satan's beast who only has 7

He once "was" [ruling over the first 5 .... the last was the northern Greek .... Syrio/Babylonia], then was "not" .... and still is not

And he will come out of the abyss [yet "is"] to rule again

This must mean that the scope of the prophets visions is limited and does not present Middle eastern rulers from the first century up to this day

When Rome ruled .... the beast was "not"

Satan was and has been active throughout the last 2,000 years, but his beast who ruled for him in the Middle East is still in the abyss where he cannot interact with humanity

If the last 2,000 years was in the scope then the visions would contain many more than just 7 consecutive rulers of the Middle East

The beast and his followers will rise out of the geographics of the ancient Middle East where he ruled before the first century

The visions of the time of the end recorded in Ezekiel and Daniel attest to this fact

This is the area where Israel has returned and is surrounded by the nation's ancient enemies

This must be the setting for the time of the end

The nations outside of the Middle East will be subdued by the beast and his followers during the tribulation period

This same area is where the Lord will rule from Jerusalem just after the tribulation period

If we are close to the begining of the time of the end, the beast [the little horn] and his followers will be the Islamics of the Middle East

Scripture identifies these ancient enemies of Israel who are the same inhabitants of the Middle East today

Daniel’s vision of the primary rulers of the Middle East is limited in scope and the student of Bible prophecy needs to consider this when interpreting those of the ancient past and future. Distinct changes of the elements in the scope of the vision represent changes in human rule of the Middle East except for the 6th and the 7th where the iron element is contained in both. These are the major rulers of the Middle East from ancient times to the present:

Post Flood (not included in the vision of the image)
1. Land of Magog ad his brothers
2. Akkadian/Assyrian

Ancient Image Elements
3. Neo-Babylonian – One head of gold

(Medo/Persian) – Two arms of silver
4. Persian – One chest of silver

5. Greek – One belly of Bronze
(Greek North/South) – Two thighs of bronze

Non-Image Elements (not included in the vision of the image)
These are all subsequent major rulers of the Middle East with distinctive changes, but they do not appear in the scope of visionary prophecy and all exist between the end of the 69th week decreed for national Israel and the beginning of the future 70th week.

Roman
Arabian
Seljuk
Kurd
Mongol
Mamluk
Turk
British
10 primary Islamic nation states and Israel (current)

Future Image Elements
6. Unnamed (North (little horn)/South) – Two - legs of iron
7. Unnamed (10 divisions ruled by little horn/beast) – Feet and toes of iron and clay
8. The Lord’s millennial Kingdom – Stone

There is a break in the image elements presented between the 5th and the 6th. This period represents the last 2,000+ years of history (list of non-image elements) and is still running. It corresponds with the lapse time of the 70 weeks of years (490 years) decreed for national Israel which began in 445 B.C. under Persian rule. 483 years of this time lapse transpired at approximately 33 A.D and the balance of 7 years is still pending. This future period will include the future image elements of the 6th and 7th which are unnamed and unknown, and then the Lord’s millennial Kingdom which will replace all human rule, will be centered in Israel and the Middle East, and will include the entire world.

Daniel’s other corresponding vision of the 4 “beast” dominions of the Middle East includes the rule of Neo-Babylon, Persia, and Alexander’s Asian dominion (his kingdom was broken and the two bronze thighs represent the kingdoms of the northern and southern Greeks who ruled the Middle East, one north of Jerusalem and one south). The 4th dominion is a combination of the 6th and 7th elements of the unnamed and unknown rulers of the Middle East at the future time of the end. The 6th will be the northern iron leg (northern sector of the Middle East) of the little horn/beast who will conquer the southern iron leg, the rest of the Middle East, and Israel. He will rule over the Middle East for 42 months with 10 other kings, will cause horrific destruction and upheaval for the rest of the world, and then his kingdom will be destroyed and replaced by the Lord’s millennial Kingdom.

Revelation has this same identical line up and limited scope of image elements and they are described as the 7 heads (dominions) of Satan’s angelic beast who rules over the Middle East. The first two elements not included in Daniel’s vision are added to the next 5 in the scope bringing the total to the 7 dominions of the Middle East. This is why the beast has 7 heads (dominions) in the scope of the visions of which 5 have fallen (are historical) and two will exist in the future in succession. The 6th will be the one that “is” (at the beginning of the 70th week) and the 7th will follow. The beast’s 6th rule will be a small (little horn) northern kingdom located in the Middle East, and he will expand it into the 7th divided kingdom of iron and clay. The chapters for study are Daniel 2, 7, and 8; Revelation 17.

The return of Abaddon-Apollyon, a fallen angelic, is a given in scripture and just who the little human horn will be is not known yet.

The little horn will appear in the northern Middle East rising up among 10 other Middle Eastern kings who will follow him at the time of the end .... his appearance will occur just at the beginning of the tribulation period.

Abaddon is the first beast of Revelation who will come out of the abyss .... released by satan. Here the term "beast" is used to describe a fallen angelic.

This term is used differently in Daniel's visions and symbolizes the succession of different Middle Eastern empires ... three historical and the future and last of Abaddon-Apollyon's human dominions.

This final dominion will include two phases ... a 6th smaller dominion in the northern Middle East followed quickly by an expanded dominion of the region with 10 other kings.

His presence on the earth and actions are noted specifically in chapters 9, 11, 13, 14, 16, 17, and 19. He is the "angelic prince" that shall come to rule again and stand against the Messiah Prince ....Jesus Christ at the time of the end [Daniel 9:24-27].

This beast [in the little horn] will conquer the Middle East including Israel, and will fend off all other national opposition including the noted destruction of the "great city" [civilization] of the Gentiles [Revelation 17,18].

Those who oppose his rule from the south, far east, and far north outside of the Middle East proper will be vanquished [Daniel 11:36-44, 12:7].

The Lord's two Israelite prophets will stand for the Lord against this entity and his false prophet [also a fallen angelic who will manifest in two human cleric leaders of the two main branches of Islam] during his 42 month rule of a conquered Israel [last 1,260 days of the 7 year tribulation period].

The Lord will protect His two prophets during their service which will take place in Jerusalem, which will be occupied by the little horn and his followers .... the adherents of Islam.

The Lord will then turn on him and his human followers and destroy them in the next 30 days consumating in the battle of Armageddon [Revelation 16, 19].

The beast and the false prophet will be destroyed in the lake of fire [only the Lord can destroy angelics], the little horn and his followers will become bird food and their remains will be buried by Israel, and satan will be tossed into the same abyss where the beast was before his release [Revelation 19,20].

Mohammud's claims of a visitation by Gabriel were false and he was most likely visited by satan .... or it is possible that he just made the whole story up to support his ambitions of control and conquest.

The situation in the Middle East today is ripe for the coming of the "other prince" .... the Mahdi of the Islamic nation.



Stephen do you see the siging of the next peace accord (probably an extension of the Oslo accords) the one in which God says is the covenant of
"death and hell"? It was my understanding that the a/c was referred to as the "king of the north" which at some point invades the middle-east and
basically sets up shop in Jerusalem. We shouldn't confuse the king of the north with the Gog and MaGog war which is Russia and it's arab allies
attacking Israel at some point during tribulation.. as it says they will go up against Israel when she is resting in peace and without fear of her enemies
attacking her....

just wondering as there is quite a few end-time experts and they don't all agree to what country the a/c will come out of and who the false prophet
will be... everyone is focussed on Mr. Obama as he does fit the discription given us of the a/c's personality etc.

God Bless,
Taltimbr.
Stephen
I believe that Gog is satan addressed by the Lord [Ezekiel 38:17]

I don't think that Russia is in view in the passage

Satan is the one who stands behind the little horn, human king of the northern Middle East

This entity is called the "Assyrian" in Bible prophecy

The Lord uses the ancient names of the post flood era for locating the place where the little horn will rise .... the ancient "land" of Magog and his brothers which was in the northern sector of the fertile crescent

This land has had different rulers since including the Assyrians, neo-Babylonians, Persian's and northern Greeks

All had their cores centered in this northern sector of the Middle East

The little horn will be a Middle Easterner, not one from outside of the Middle East

This human king is noted in Daniel 8:9-12, 8:23-25, 9:26-27, 11:36-45, and 12:7

He is the same as the first beast of Revelation because satan's beast from the abyss will possess him

I see no "peace agreement" in the visions for the time of the end between Israel and the nation's enemies

This idea is derived from Ezekiel 38:11, Daniel 8:25, and 9:27

The covenant confirmed in the 9th chapter of Daniel is the covenant of the 70 weeks of years decreed for national Israel

It is the Lord who confirms by executing the 70th week and reaching the 6 objectives for the believing remnant of the nation

The "other" prince, the little horn [beast] and his followers will invade and occupy Israel at the midpoint ..... and then rule for 42 months unopposed

This invasion is the same as seen by Ezekiel and Zechariah

It will cause the believing remnant of Israel [who will be worshiping at the base of the temple mount] to flee the nation for protection by the Lord in the eastern wilderness [Zechariah 14:4-5, Matthew 24:15, and Revelation 12:6,14]

Israel will be residing permanently [at rest] just as they are today

The Lord is protecting [safety] the nation for His purposes in order to take Israel through the tribulation period

They have had difficulties, but the nation is still intact .... without the Lord's protection the nation would have been eliminated before now

It is satan [gog] who moves to destroy the nation when he sees Israel in a returned state in the land

The Lord will draw him into a trap .... satan's "team" will be destroyed in the process .... he will loose the game as always when he stands against the Lord

Ezekiel 38,39 has two parts to the vision .... the initial invasion at midweek .... and the resultant battle of Armageddon in which satan's human and angelic agents will be destroyed

The vision does not cover the 42 month rule of the little horn between the invasion and the battle of Armageddon

Satan will lose the battle of Armageddon and his beast and false prophet will be tossed into the lake of fire [Satan will be tossed into the abyss for 1,000 years and will be released at the end of the period to cause another human rebellion]

His little horn, the king of the northern Middle east, and His followers will become bird food and their bones will be buried by Israel at Armageddon

The little horn will destroy many of Israel [2/3s of the nation and of the other nations of the earth by the rational of "peace" .... not a "peace" agreement

He will use the object of peace to destroy those who will not submit to him .... his rant will be that in order to bring peace he must eliminate all humans who will not submit and worship him as a god

Pauls' statement about when "they shall say peace and safety" is describing an unsuspecting world that the Lord's judgment is about to fall .... like it was in the days of Noah

The Lord's coming judgment will come without warning against an unsuspecting world ... a time of unprecedented confusion, vexation, and destruction

BO is not the little horn

The little horn will rise in the northern Middle East with a "small" kingdom [the 6th kingdom of Satan's beast] at first, and he will then expand it into the 7th and final divided kingdom with 10 other Middle Eastern kings

His base of operations will be in the Middle East

BO is not a "little" horn who rises from small beginnings in the Middle East .... he is the president of the largest "kingdom" on the planet today

Neither is he an Assyrian and he does not have a "fierce" countenance

The little horn will gain a following of Middle Eastern inhabitants who will worship him as a god .... because of his extraordinary ability to defeat and destroy his opposition

He will not be a smooth talking politician and his character will be vile .... a terrorist

And it will be this king and the 10 others who will destroy the "great city" of the Gentiles at the beginning of the tribulation period

It is possible that the "great city" is the USA [I am speculating about this]

This successful action will be a major part of the little horn's rise to rule the earth
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