ex 4:

21And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.

The enemies of Gods word have attempted to destroy this most solemn truth, that God hardens mens hearts according to His good pleasure.

But , I am determined by the grace of God to shine His truth forth as a light in darkness..

It was Gods purpose to harden pharaohs heart to accomplish His purpose..

This principle is seen again in deut 2:

30But Sihon king of Heshbon would not let us pass by him: for the LORD thy God hardened his spirit, and made his heart obstinate, that he might deliver him into thy hand, as appeareth this day.

Now , whenever a important truth like this is taught in scripture, and God intends on it being confirmed, He causes the sacred penmen to refer to this truth on several occasions:

Lets look at isa 6:

1In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the LORD sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.

2Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.
3And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
4And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.
5Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.
6Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:
7And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.
8Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
9And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. 10Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

John gill says as regard to making the heart fat:

Make the heart of this people fat…
Gross and heavy, stupid and unteachable, hard and obdurate; which is sometimes done by the preaching of the Gospel, through the wickedness of man's heart, that being the savour of death unto death to some, just as the sun hardens the clay; or declare that their hearts are thus gross and stupid; or that I will give them up to a judicial hardness of heart:

I agree, that sometimes God sends the gospel to a people to purposely harden them, so they believe a lie..

2 cor 2:

14But thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumphal procession in Christ and through us spreads everywhere the fragrance of the knowledge of him. 15For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. 16To the one we are the smell of death; to the other, the fragrance of life.

Paul teaches in 2 thess 2:

. 9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

God would not send someone He Loves a strong delusion in order for them to believe a lie..

Let us continue, there are more:

matt 13:

11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

12For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

The part of vs 15 that reads :

For this people's heart is waxed gross, this waxed gross is in the aorist passive voice, meaning the subjects were acted upon, hence confirming Gods activity and power on their hearts..

But Jesus reaffirms the blessing of being chosen to salvation to His disciples and says to them in opposite to those being blined and hardened:

16But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

This is Gods discriminate grace to some..

mk 4:


10And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.
11And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: 12That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

I highlighted the word that, in the greek its:
hina:
that, in order that, so that

Its a purpose clause.denoting something God has purposed..

so God purposed that seeing, they dont perceive, hearing, they dont understand..

There is more

lk 8:
9And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be?

10And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
11Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. [ or converted]

God is against, actively against the seed of the devil being saved..

jn 12:

37But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:

38That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
39Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. 41These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

This is just not being repetative, lest you charge God with Just being repetative, for its His inspired word..

My point is that this hardening of peoples heart is so important to God, that the same reference to it is in each gospel account, emphasizing its importance..

but thats not all:

acts 28:

20For this cause therefore have I called for you, to see you, and to speak with you: because that for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.

21And they said unto him, We neither received letters out of Judaea concerning thee, neither any of the brethren that came shewed or spake any harm of thee.
22But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken against.
23And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
24And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
25And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, 26Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:

paul refered to the Old test scriptures too..regarding this hardening of a people, and He knew it was the purpose of God read rom 11:

7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.


28Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

BTW the above reference is not a friend to the lie of freewill. paul here states that the gentiles not might, but shall hear the words of salvation , for it was planned by God..

God was actively for their conversion as he was against the jews conversion save the election of grace..

acts 26:

18To open their[ gentiles] eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light[ conversion], and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

The very opposite was true of the jews jn 12:

39Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

This should prove also that God works this way also within the gentile world as well..

That is He has a election in both groups of people, and in both groups of people there is a the rest which are blinded..

So throughout Gods word, its taught about Gods Sovereignly Hardening people to accomplish His purpose..Nothing in all the references speaks to man hardening himself, because thats not the point of emphasis of the Holy Ghost..just like when paul discourses on romans 9:

17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth

Paul knew of the scripture that said pharoah hardened his own heart, i am sure he did, for paul was an OLD Test scholar..but not one time did he ever refer to that verse, as the enemy of truth does to day, to make that teach , that is why God hardened pharoahs heart, only after he hardened it himself..which is a lie..because even when referring to that verse, it still reads this:

ex 8:

15But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said

You see that? Yes he did harden his heart, but it tells why ! which is:

As the Lord said, and what did the Lord say ? ex 4:

21And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.

God doesnt say, but he will harden his heart, but that I will harden his heart..

The I will means His power will, His Sovereignty will, thats why paul said he was raised up to show His power in him rom 9:

17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

And the conclusion was this?

19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will[ power]?

many today believe they can resist Gods power, His will..

why doeth he find fault ? is not that the reasoning many have today ? if its Gods power and will whereby one is hardened, then why does God find fault with them ?

Is not the thought of many on this board ?..well paul knew this type of thinking was a normal reaction to his teachings..

But hear what He says to such thinking[ which is humanism]

20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

Who are you, that repliest against God..you see, if you have thought ,that, well if this is true, how can God find fault, then you are against God..

Thats right , against God, Gods enemy in your mind..

I am going to tell the truth, by the grace of God, which is God does harden peoples heart to not believe the Gospel, because he has purposed to dam them..to destroy them, and that forever..

1Ti 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
1Ti 2:2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

God wants all men to be saved,,,,,,,,,but many reject God and salvation,,,,,,,,because they love sin.

post # 1 in this thread is wrong

So you still a unbeliever i see..

Greetings,

Perhaps many other scriptures ought to be added, just to keep it HONEST! The Lord Jesus Christ does not NEGATE ONE TRUTH WITH ANOTHER. All truth is ONE! Jesus Christ is NOT divided against Himself.

Let's dig for the hidden treasure (Matt. 13:44); perhaps the Good News is better than we think. Firstly, "For by grace you have been saved through faith" (Eph. 2:8). The verse does not say, "have been saved 'because' of your faith."

Many make the mistake of thinking that repentance and faith is of such value as to atone for sin, but that can't be. Grace must be imparted, the atoning sacrifice must avail for man, before he can repent. "But with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption" (Heb. 9:12).

Christ Jesus is already the "Savior of all men, especially of those who believe" (1 Tim. 4:10). And has tasted "death for everyone" (Heb. 2:9).

Going back to Ephesians 2, examining the contextual layout. "But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 2:4-6).

There is no mention of the believers confession, repentance or faith. It is an act of God, apart from our own personal experience. The verses are referring to the "death and resurrection" of Christ." How do we know this? Because Paul took a great amount of his writings straight out of the Old Testament. In this case, from the book of Hosea.

Hosea 6:1,2--"For He has torn, but He will heal us: He has stricken, but He will bind us up. After two days He will revive us [make us alive]; On the third day He will raise us up [He will revive us], That we may live in His sight"

Where were you when Christ died on the cross? In Christ! All humanity, past, present, and future were crucified "in Him." Objectively, we "sit together in the heavenly places 'in Christ Jesus.'" "And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist" (Col. 1:17).

Hence, Jesus Christ first saves us, then calls us! How do we know this? According to the gospel, the power of God, "has saved us, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began" (2 Tim. 8,9).

I'm not talking of Universalism, Arminianism or Calvinism. Sadly, many will refuse the salvation already obtained for all. If any are to be saved at last, it will be because of God's intiatiative. And, if any will be lost at last, it will be because of man's initiative. It is easy to be saved and hard to be lost, IF, one comprehends the love of God's wonderful gospel. (See Eph. 3:14-20).

No one will see Jesus for the first time and say, "I did my part" "I did my part." The gospel is God laying the glory of man in the dust. Oh, the poor suffering sinnner, who all their lifetime trying so desperately to live up to God's calling by trying "first" to do something. He already has done something for us! Will we believe?

Many think this belief in an already established salvation will encourage people to go on sinning ad infinitum. However, there is one sin that cannot be forgiven, the deliberate, persistant resistance against the Holy Spirit (unbelief). When the Bible states: "For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to ALL men, it goes on to say, "instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age" (Titus 2:11, 12).

While Christ was walking the earth, He said, "Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones. ... For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost" (Matt. 18:10,11). Jesus also stated, "And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world" (John 12:47). And at the cross He exclaimed, "It is finished" (John 19:30). Did Jesus accomplish what He set out to do? Or did He fail? Will we believe? Or will we despise the gift already given? (Rom. 5:15-18).

The covenant of grace has God more actively involved in our salvation, initiating the entire process, "from first to last this has been been the work of God," (2 Cor. 5:18, NEB). Legalists are fearful of lowering obedience, unmindful that only "love is the fulfilling of the law," and that all egocentric motivation produces either lukewarmness or eventual falling-away (Rom. 13:10; only "agape never fails," 1 Cor. 13:8).

blessings in Christ,
Jake

Amen this is true

and indeed God is the power and has all right over the clay to form it has He pleases.

Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?

and the scripture is clear

Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:







While I agree with you beloved, may I comfort your heart.

It seems as if when scripture is given that is so clear and obvious, that it should be easy to believe and yet there are many that compete scripture with scripture, only able to believe the verses that they can view to support their ideas and ignoring the rest.

However you and I both know that it is God who must reveal a thing to a man, it is Him who is sovereign and must give men eyes to see and ears to hear so if they do not yet see it, it is because God has not saw fit to reveal it to them for whatever reason.

Sometimes that reason may be that a person is still to immature in their walk with Him and He is a merciful Father, not wanting to give too much to babes causing them to charge Him with evil and condemning themselves.

This use to be the case with me but in His own time He gave me eyes to understand these things and before that day, I could not see or believe no matter how many people told me and gave me scripture.

Sometimes it may be that they have an idol before their hearts either of their own opinion, or ideas about God, or of their church doctrine and again, this truth we are speaking of again causes them to judge God charge Him with evil or just deny this truth in their blindness, as He has not given them the eyes to see because of the idol they put before Him.- Even if this is the case, God may see fit to work things in their lives in such a way that the idol may be removed and then truth can be given to them.

Either way that it may be for a person is the Lords knowing to have and both can be remedied in a person by His work in them and their lives so we may be found faithful to Him and our brethern if we stand in faith for them and pray that they may be turned or matured and we can have confidence in our God that He is able. We know that He knows who will never be grown or corrected but we stand rightly if we did our service towards them before His face since we do not know what their purpose and outcome is in His creation.

I disagree..thats a compromise in my opinion..even the immature believe the truth of the gospel..

And Gods mercifulness is limited to His elect, for he is not merciful to the non elect, God is sovereign in His mercy rom 9:

18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

If a person rejects the truth of the gospel, i have no reason to consider them a brother or sister in the Lord..

But a enemie..but if they are listening to the truth, then i believe there is hope..but not until then..

Not until this point is understood, just putting scripture against scripture without understanding is a endless cycle..do you believe what I have posted ? Do you understand whats being emphasized ?

Amen Beloved. I read every word. And I thank you for being so brave and humble and giving 'meat in due season' nothing can be rejected if nothing is given. And it is our duty, who do His will to give, give and give. Even if no one will listen anymore. If you're the only one upon the housetops saying the "Coming of the Day of the LORD is at hand" then let His will be done.

I cannot even say anymore. We are here and I pray for all of you, but I pray that Yahshua specifically keeps you Beloved, always in His name, even until the very second of His return.

Wow! This is a glorious time! The Gospel and testimony are being preached and unsealed, finally after all these years. Do not watch the world, watch His work, for it is marvelous! Amen!

Blessings and prayer and love to you Beloved. You are a beacon in the night hour.

Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

God wanted to save the people of Jerusalem,,,,,,,,but they resisted God's perfect will,,,,,,,,,,,,,they rejected God's Plan of salvation

God wants to save all people

post # 1 in this thread is wrong

Good illustration and teaching of God's sovereign will!

God hardens some hearts... He makes some blind to the truth; Yet He gives others seeing eyes and hearing ears!

Yes mam..rom 9:

18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

we have needy right here...we need to feed the children and provide for the frail.

they are even asking us for help! there are two orphanages involved with this
online ministry...they need our help!

what does it mean to preach to each other? Mercy and Grace need our participation
in the ministry of feeding and clothing...we all can participate and be in ministry now.

i just have to say this here and everywhere because i feel the need to answer what
is being asked of this board...by the Lord.

speaking of hardening of hearts...does it include the pocketbooks? people of God,
give a life a chance to survive and it will thrive with a testimony of Christ.

blessings,
signet

http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...mp;#entry263241

humanism

I would ask you what that remark is supposed to mean, humanism...
but i really don't care. It is a sad remark.

It seems that people want to teach, preach, judge and condemn...
but following the simple directives of the Lord,
feeding the hungry and clothing the naked
is too difficult for some.

(NKJV) Revelation 3:14 " And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, ' These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: 15 "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 "So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will you out of My mouth. 17 "Because you say, 'I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing' -- and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked -- 18 "I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19 "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. 20 "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 "To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. 22 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." ' "



(NKJV) James 2:13 For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment. 14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe -- and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.



James 1:27 Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

...it is acceptable according to what one is able or not able to give. But to villify a righteous work of God is abominable.

your whole post is humanism..you are a humanist..

i will admit, there are alot of people who post on this forum,
hence keeping straight in my mind, who is who, is often difficult..

but this a.m., while reading this thread, I have made a permanent, mental note..

beloved57, you have been marked.. I will NOT forget who you are..


and the mercy and grace of God - of which you speak - I pray it on your soul

==========================

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

-------------------------------------------------------

Beloved57 - Here is my God's warning to you

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

therefore...

[add] to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: