Would it benefit the members to start a thread on Foxes Book Of Martyrs?
Should I start a thread on Foxes Book Of Martyrs in preparation for the
coming Inquisition?
I believe after 37 years of bible study we are facing a time of trouble.
If the Administration would just as soon I not begin the thread please let
me know.

Thank you

Yes
No
Undecided

Jude




FOX's BOOK of MARTYRS

A History of the lives, sufferings and triumphant deaths of the early Christian and the Protestant martyrs
Edited by William Byron Forbush

"After the Bible itself, no book so profoundly influenced early Protestant sentiment as the Book of Martyrs. Even in our time it is still a living force. It is more than a record of persecution. It is an arsenal of controversy, a storehouse of romance, as well as a source of edification." - James Miller Dodds, English Prose.

Jude,


I think this study would be beneficial but I think you may have this topic under the wrong heading? Might I suggest: "Anything else?" or under "Bible Studies." Unless you want this topic debated, I would keep this thread out of the cellar and upstairs.

Topic looks like a great topic just seems to be misplaced under "Current Events." Just my opinion.

Gods Blessings,

Al

Might end up in the debates section would be my guess.

Hay Jude

why not just use the thread now that way you dont have to start a new thread i would be happy to discus foxes book of martyrs since i have it on E Sword and have used it many times to bring my point across when sharing about the warnings christ gave to his disciples many believe though Jude they wil be raptured and not experiance what paul and Jesus disciples experianced go over this forum to see were i am comming from Jude i my self am ready and i am keeping my eyes open it says also many wil be decieved in the last days i have a good dvd i got this from the christian book stre korong called the visitation and i have another dvd Deceived

i my self have discussed this with my fiancee who is a filapino pastor and like minded christians who also believe that we wil go through what the disciples and paul went through

when i first read foxes book of martyrs i could not get away i have read it know 8 times jude

what is given to us by fox and what he shares to us i am amazed how some proffessing christians think this wil never happen to them Jesus did not rescue his disciples and he did not even come to the aid of paul


as i said dont start a new thread use the one you have set up know Jude


what hurts me is what our brothers and sisters in india are going through know and the missonerys and christians in hot zones God has not raptured the ones who are being killed in india or bashed or who are in prison

Jesus warns us fox tels us so if Jesus said to his disciples not to be discouraged but warned them why do so many think they wil be raptured i am not a rapture believer Jude

i know that i wil not be raptured and i have no fear my faith rests in him alone not in what man has to say


1 corinthians 2 English standard version


5 that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God


if you like the foxes book of martyrs have you read the heavenly man by brother yun ? if so what are your comments to the heavenly man and what brother yun experianced do you support what he has to share in the heavnely man or do you think its not true that this can happen to a christian would like to hear your thoughts

for me when i first read the heavenly man i was moved i could not stop crying the heavenly man had a real effect on me i wrote to brother yun i got an email from one of his followers who stays in close contac with him he has spoken in australia and i missed hearing him preach





Damo

Thanks everyone for your comments, perhaps it should be in church history or a like forum.
It it my belief that the early Romans like this guy here did nothing more than open up a new
store with all the glint and glitter brought the Babylonian religion and ended up looking like...



I believe we will go through the great tribulation as does the previous poster Brother Damo.

We are called not only to believe in Jesus but suffer for his sake as well.

Jude




Lets give it the weekend and get together on the proper forum

hi Jude!

I started a thread back in August on Foxe's Book of Martyrs because I too
started reading it.. and thought we could learn much from our brothers and sisters who lived in the past..

there is some of it that I began typing .. it did get 177 views but only 2 responses..

I dunno? maybe it didn't seem an important thing back in August.. but you are certainly welcomed to continue it there if you'd like.. it IS in the
Debates (NOT FOR THOSE EASILY OFFENDED!) > Anything else section.. or you could click the link above..

Thought so. Straight to the debates forum I would say

I think this thread is a refreshing idea. Another great book if the same vein is Martyr's Mirror. I have this one also. I would also recommend Jesus Freaks 1 & 2 from DC Talk. They are about martyrdom and persecution. Very stirring and encouraging.

Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

there is no need to wait for the Great Trib to suffer.........every Christian has suffered, in every age

we have been zealous to do good works,,,,,,,while the pagans mocked us

we have been excluded from the "clique" and the "good life",,,,,,,,while our pagan neighbors were promoted to higher positions

we have sold all that we own, and gave the money to the poor,,,,,,,,,while the evolutionists lived in luxuries and leisure


we have preached the Gospel, while our neighbors spat on us

we have been hated,,,,,,,while the abortionists were loved

we were im-prisoned,,,,,while the communists sat on a golden throne

we were tortured by the State Churches, the popes, and the Nazis, ,,,,,,,,,while the wicked burned our Bibles

the Socialists take our money from working Christians,,,,,,,,,,,and, with our stolen dollars,,,they buy votes from Dead-Beats

the Socialists preach evolution to our schoolchildren, to destroy their faith in Christ and Bible

the Socialists destroy our nation, economy, and currency, by running huge deficit spendng programs,,,,,,,,to buy votes with bankrupt entitlements,,,,,,,,,,which is a cheap satan's substitute for Biblical charity and love

the Socialists fill our radio and TV airwaves, and the newspapers with their anti-christ propaganda


and etc

if you add up all the injuries of this Age,,,,,, the anti-christs have caused tremendous suffering to Christians and Christ


Act 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

when the African dictator burns a bible on the other side of the Ocean,,,,,,,,,i must work to replace that bible ,,,,,,,,into the hands of the person whose bible was burned

christians are constantly working very hard to repair the damage done by the anti-christs.

The Great Tribulation will be a fitting addition to Foxe's Book and Christians
who anticipate experiencing it. Whether a perusal of the Book of Martyrs actually encourages born-again believers to live for Christ, as opposed to foreboding due to a gruesomely morbid forray into the science of persecution, is debatable. Nevertheless, what it is worth for similar 'inspiration' -

http://remember.org/educate/intro.html

http://www.annefrank.dk/Holo/hitler.htm


-or-


For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1 Peter 3:18



Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
Hebrews 9:26


Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
Philippians 4:8

During the persecutions there seemed a lull for a time but then they continue, just because we
aren't facing it now here in the US. doesn't mean they've gone away, you don't see it on your regular
news updates but that doesn't mean a thing. Soon the persecutions will begin anew only this time it will be for keeps,
I see it as a time when the sheep will be separated from the goats.

Lord willing Monday I'll begin posting Foxes Book Of Martyrs, as far as debating the book I have no objections as long as
we don't become disrespectful by making light of it. The trend or so it appears is to hide the contents by the same
group of individuals that made it a reality. This comes from personal observation of book stores that no longer carry it,
that and another book that adds credibility to the contents called The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop.


Jude



http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sh...hy/martyrs.html

Please don't force me to debate in the Current events folder.
Foxes book of Martyrs is a shameless piece of protestant propoganda second only to Hislops two babylons.

Nobody can force you to debate on a thread, this would be your choice. Choices Ex and not force are the Christian way. We follow Christ and not the Church. Ex, aren't you still a Protestant?

Gods Blessings,

Al

My choice would be to defend the one holy apostolic church from all slanderous accusations. A personal sense of justice would compel me to do so rather than any external influence. However if the thread is not moved to Debates forum then I would be forced to debate in the Current events forum which I don't want to do. This highlights a weakness in the running of the forum which troublemakers have exploited in the past. They raise controversial issues in the general forum instead of in the Debates forum. They then give out their opinions and beliefs and when they meet the expected resistance they say "Well I don't want to debate about it, this is not the debates forum you know" They then go a'moaning to the moderators that someone is debating in the general forum.

By misusing the forum this way they expect to plaster their beliefs unchallenged on the forum. I won't have it. I will not let the Holy Church of God to be slandered without contending for her.

Yes I am still protestant. I introduced myself to the priest at the local parish. He asked me to call him during the week to make an appointment to discuss becoming catholic. So things are moving slowly. I am also giving my immediate family time to adapt to the idea of me becoming catholic. After I talk to him I will resurrect my thread "One mans transition from a protestant to catholic belief system and let you all know how it goes. Cos I know you are all just cheering me on so much.

Thank you for the reply you've helped to prove my point, before we begin with Foxes book I'll try to
provide small pieces of information that deals with the here and now.

Battle Cry
"Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?"
Gal. 4:16

Pope Targets Soul Winners in Recent Trip to the West

Issue Date: March/April 1999

In the pope's recent visit to Mexico and St. Louis, he demonstrated once again that, "Rome when in minority is as gentle as a lamb, when in equality is as clever as a fox, and when in the majority is as fierce as a tiger."

In St. Louis, he went to great lengths to woo members of the other major U.S. religious groups. A special ecumenical service in the St. Louis cathedral was opened with the blowing of a shofar, a ram's horn used in Jewish ceremonies and a Rabbi was invited to read a portion of Isaiah. He was one of 95 representatives invited to the service from non-Catholic religions. Included were Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, Protestant, Muslim, Buddhist and Hindu leaders.

In "great swelling words" the pope declared, "I express my friendship and esteem for my fellow Christians, for the Jewish community in America, for our Muslim brothers and sisters. I express my cordial respect for people of all religions and for every person of good will."

However, in Mexico City, he made it very clear which category of people were not persons of "good will."

One of the objectives of the pope's mission to America was to deliver a 100-page "apostolic exhortation." This document was the written summation of the pope's conclusions after a recent "Synod of the Americas," a lengthy meeting in Rome of all the Western Hemisphere Bishops in which they report to the pope on the state of their jurisdictions.

One of the major concerns at the synod was the massive exodus of members from the Roman Catholic church in Latin America. In the last three or four decades more than 40 million people have left Romanism and joined various Protestant groups.

In a section of the "ex-hortation" addressing "The challenge of the sects," the pope declares, "The proselytizing activity of the sects and new religious groups in many parts of America is a grave hindrance to the work of evangelization."

As with most of the pope's pronouncements, a translation is needed. "Proselytizing" is, of course, synonymous with "soul winning" and includes any attempt to inform Roman Catholics that they are not saved and need to leave the pope's pagan-based religion.

"Sects and new religious groups" is anyone who practices "proselytizing." This, of course, includes a few Mormons, JWs, Moonies, and other cults which lead the people farther from the Bible. But most leaving Catholicism have joined the groups of Bible-believing soulwinners.

"Evangelization" is the pope's substitute for evangelism where someone is won to the bondage of rituals and sacraments of Catholicism instead of freedom in Christ.

For the world religions and even some Protestant denominations which do not attempt to bring the truth to Roman Catholics, the pope has a different name: "separated brethren." He even called the Muslims "brothers and sisters" and welcomed the fellowship of Buddhists and Hindus in St. Louis.

But those who "proselytize" are fast becoming public enemy number one throughout the world. In Muslim countries, winning a soul to Christ can get you a death sentence. In Buddhist and Hindu cultures, soul winning can provoke mob violence or jail on trumped-up charges.

In Chiapas and Oaxaca, Mexico, Bible-believers in Catholic communities have been driven from homes and farms and their churches burned while local authorities looked the other way. It isn't likely that the pope's recent comments will make it any easier for these believers.

How blessed we are in the U.S. to not fear for our lives if we witness to our neighbors. But the clouds are gathering. We better work diligently while we can.

I can attest to the fact two of my brothers in Mexico were killed by the Jesuits for preaching the gospel of grace and forgiveness.


Jude

To Excubitor




why does this topic have to be debated its just a topic that jude wants to introduce

you deffend the catholic church and any one who disagrees you try your hardest to get them to come around

i see nothing wrong in discussing the foxes book of martyrs if you dont like what jude is wanting to discuss dont drag jude or me or anyone else who wants to discus this openly


the problem i see is this catholics wil not rock the boat they will accept what is taught to them with out questioning the doctrines and i have told you why i wil not fal for what you leave i am a christian and if i choose to be in an apostolic penticostal church were i can worship god with out restrictions being put on me or my family who has the right to force me to take on a doctrine that wil lead me to hell ?


i asked you excubitor does the catholic church alow its young people to worship god with out placing restrictions on them to were they are told what to do

you want to build a bridge were we get on instead of were ther is division among us what is this then doing by what you are leaving

i dont force any one to leave their denomination they belong to i dont believe in doing this its up to the persosn them selves and if some one begins to question who has the right to come down on me or another brother and sister and say what you leave ?


have you been able to mend bridges with me and the other members you disagree with excubitor ?


i am glad you talked to the priest its your choice you are your own man excubitor you have done your research

i too have done my research i like the freedom i have excubitor i should be alowed to worship god the way i want to with out having anyone force me to give up what he has done in my life

if i want to worship god like playing hillsong songs and the style i am use to excubitor wil you judge me because i like what hill song and other worship leaders from abroad have to offer ?

i cant handle hearing an organ being played i cant handle singing hyms excubitor even though i like some of the old hyms i love amazing grace i have seen the movie and i am buying the dvd for my personal use

i like this old rugged cross


but i dont force anything on to anyone



and it should be the same when it comes to this forum not all of us are catholics excubitor not all of us support what the catholic church has to say or do we support the pope

it does not give me the right to walk into a catholic church and shame the priest because i dont like what he is preaching

i have catholic friends and i get on with the catholics i know i also know four penticostal nuns who come to the combined prayer meetings one nun makes me laugh i asked her has anyone come down on you for who you are she said some have but the ones i know dont judge me she speaks in tongues she loves the style of worship i am use to and when i am with her we dont debate like i do hear in this forum we talk on what god has done in our lives


wil you judge this nun and tell her to drop what she is holding on to and come back to your roots because she is spirit filled ?


how are we to get on excubitor if we alow divison to have its way ? i want us all to get on yet sadly this will never happen because we allow our pride to get in the way


hay i have changed excubitor and every day i am dying to my old self excubitor when you first came in contac with me excubitor i had a good go at you i dont do this with you or the catholics i have ran into but if i am being forced to denounce what he has done in my life or i am being jumped on or if i am being judged then i will say something


i am praying that we let go of our pride rebuke what religon has done from with in and focus on what christ is asking us to do

we al have a part to play we have been given gifts to use while we are alive on this earth i wil not have my gifts god has given me being wasted were i am coming down on another brother or sister who belongs to a diffrent denomination

you are your own man excubitor



Damo

...about Fox's Book of Martyrs. If you read about the horrible persecutions, and mass murders of tens of thousands of Christians by the state (Babylon the Great) and the horrible cruelties shown them in which they went to the slaughter...I want you to consider this:

It was not the Great Tribulation.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Concerning the Great Tribulation:

Matthew 24:21

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


If the persecution and torment and slaughter written about in Fox's book of Martyrs, about what happened to early Christians was terrible,...consider what is written: that there shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. So what does this say about what is to come? What makes us so special that we deserve to escape such persecution as the early Church?

I know that some believe this to be about national Israel only, but do not believe that or that lying spirit. The Church will go through the Great Tribulation, but not the wrath of God, as it written. And if the Lord decides to pull some away in the beginning, to keep them from the hour of trial...so be it.

I have withheld this for some time now, about when the first resurrection will occur. I do not believe we the Bride of the Lamb, are going to go through the wrath of God, for we are not appointed to wrath, but I do see persecution of the Lord's Bride coming from that harlot who sits on many waters.

Consider what I write:

You see there are two women, one is the Lord's Bride, and the other is a Harlot that sits on many waters; both represent people.

The R/C Church is NOT Babylon the Great, as some insist on saying, but is only a part of what makes up Babylon the Great.

Please listen carefully.

Mystery Babylon the Great is the dominion and rule of man over the Earth in the spirit of unbelief in (spiritual darkness, oppression, wickedness covering this world, doctrines of demons seeking to destroy those whose hope is God...) Since the time of Adam she has ruled the Earth in unbelief, born of that apostate spirit called satan.

The other woman, who is the Lord's Bride is beautiful to Him...she loves the one to whom she is espoused, and the Lord loves her and gave Himself for her, that He might sanctify her and cleanse her with the washing of water by the Word, that He might present her to Himself a glorious Bride, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish....and she is born of the Spirit of the Living God!

...but the harlot, who is the unbelieving, unrepentant body of fallen man, who is not born of God, but is born after the rebellion of satan, and is of that spirit, will Jesus completely destroy by the the sword that proceeds out of His mouth and by the brightness of His coming. The day in which the wicked and ungodly are to be removed.


This harlot is about to make war with the saints once again, and to persecute her...and I understand what the two witnesses will be doing now...God will raise them up and give them power to make war with Babylon the Great and her king (who is satan...for he is the one to whom the great harlot is espoused to, whom the Lord calls the harlot)

These two witnesses will witness about the Lord who is the lamb of God, and Bride of the Lamb (who is the repented, believing body of man Jew and Gentile alike), and these two shall make war with the harlot, and to destroy her until she is fallen and is no more. They will take her apart piece by piece...the infrastructure that keeps Babylon the Great so strong and sitting as a queen will be the first to go...commodities such as oil supply and world stock markets, food and and all manner of trade...one by one they shall fall.

How much she hath glorified herself and lived voluptuously! That much torment and sorrow give back to her; for she saith in her heart,`I sit a queen and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.'


Therefore shall her plagues come in one day" death and mourning and famine, and she shall be utterly burned with fire; for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.


"And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived wantonly with her, shall bewail her and lament for her when they shall see the smoke of her burning,


standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, `Alas! Alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! For in one hour has thy judgment come.'


"And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her, for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:


the merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls; and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet; all scented wood, all manner of vessels of ivory and most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble;


and cinnamon, and perfumes, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat; and cattle, and sheep, and horses, and chariots; and slaves, and the souls of men.


"And the fruits that thy soul lusted after have departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly have departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.



So in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ I curse you with a curse from God oh Babylon the Great, because you have said there is no God, and there is none to judge, and I sit as a queen and will see no harm...cursed you are and cursed you shall be.

Cursed are those who put there hope and trust in Babylon (that is to say in the arm of man), for they will taste the vengeance of God almighty...come out from her my people says the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing, and I will receive you.

I understand that satan will not enjoy what has come upon him when he is thrown down to earth, for as long as Babylon the Great lives, he prevails, and rules over the affairs of man...but when she begins to fall and is taken apart, he will begin to make war with the saints and to persecute them.


...so let the wind of the Spirit of the living and true God blow in hurricane force winds across world to make them strong and to seal the servants of the living God! Let them prevail in holiness and sanctification of the Spirit of God, Let there be a turning, and repentance, and a brokenness, and a contriteness of spirit, and a humility, and a revelation of the God of heaven, let there be a revival and a turning to God in such a way, such as the world has not seen to this day, and let the Light of the Glory of God shine from their faces...that is to say let the Holy Spirit shine from their faces...like Moses coming down from Sinai. Blessed and holy are those whose names are written down in the Lamb's book of Life from before the foundation of the world, and blessed and holy is the Lamb of God forever and ever and forever. Amen.

I didn't say Foxes book was or had anything to do with the great tribulation, I said the great tribulation was yet to come.
And come it will, at the rate bible Prophecy is being fulfilled each day that event is sure to come in our lifetime. The signs
are everywhere, I refer to the book of Matthew.

Matthew 16: 1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.
2 He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.
3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

Jude

Ex, you're in for a surprise and a shocker. Ready?

I agree with you.

Jude could you move this discussion down the cellar with other debatable topics?

Ex, believe it or not, I am rooting for you. I believe that the Catholic Church is a Christian church because they do preach Christ Crucified. Although I do believe that the Catholic Church as with any other denomination can lead you down a road of damnation, it is written that the first criteria for salvation is to seek the face of Jesus. It is also promised that if we but Knock the door will be opened. It is not I that have ever suggested that you are not a Christian actually that honor goes to you. You have basically posted to me that if I do not return to the Catholic Church that I will be damned to an eternity in hell. Did I misunderstand you? And if that be the case, where all I can expect is damnation, than the Gospel of Christ is a false teaching for that would prove that Christ loved the Church more than He loves the individual. The Church vs The individual.

You are acting wisely by moving slowly in this transition for your families sake.

Gods Blessings,

Al

Thanks folks I got the answer I was looking for, if you want to carry on then you go right ahead.

Jude

If you are not being persecuted then you are either a member of the beast "patronizing the Lord, in vain, or you are a Person of God following "The Way", "The Truth, and "The Life", being hidden by the Lord until your ministry begins.

Everything you need is in the Words of Christ.

John Fox can't get you there and can't show you how to find the Living God.

Acts 17
27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;
28 for in Him we live and move and have our being,

Hebrews 11
6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

Do you know that God is Spirit and God is everywhere?


John 4
24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."


Psalms 139
7 Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence?
8 If I ascend into heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.
9 If I take the wings of the morning, And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,
10 Even there Your hand shall lead me, And Your right hand shall hold me.







.

depends endtime if your talking about color and religon and how much knowledge you have paul was hated by his lot when he encountered jesus he knew he had a real encounter what he was holding on to before he encountered jesus was getting paul no were


when i say color and religon you can work this out for your self with out me teling you what i have experianced since i have been a christian



today we have what you cal a pecking order if you are white you are acepted you can move forwared you have the suport of the white pastor and the white members and the board members you can say be put in a leadership role you can say have the right support around you were you and your family can use the gifts god has given you your kids wil be looked after if you want to go to bible collage you have your white pastors support


but if your black or like me yugoslavian who is olive brown in skin or an indian or an asian or a chinese person or a greek or italian or leb or hindu or muslim or arab you wil get no were


if you have the education like paul and the zeal paul had when he was persecuting the christians you wil be acepted by the pharisees paul hated christians even though he him self had been raised and taught and was educated paul hated christians paul had no love for christians paul wanted all christians dead paul was only loved by his lot who were like him paul could walk into a synagogue he could get up share the word and no one would question paul paul was at stephens death

paul was following the traditions of men but when he had encoutered jesus his whole focus changed he no longer hated the christians he no longer wanted to kill the christians


the relgion of flesh has done so much damage from with in its amazing what people will put up with with out ussing the brain god has given them


what is so wrong with foxes book of martyrs do you feel we wil not go through what jesus disciples went through and what paul went through ?

do you feel god is going to spare you endtime because you preach a jesus i dont know about ?

what about what is happening in india are the christians in india who are being killed and chased out of their homes to where they end up in camps are they flakes do they need to take on your jesus you preach endtime wil you cast the indians who are being persecuted out of the body like you tried with me


only know am i able to move forwared in my walk while i stayed in a white mans church that holds on to the traditions paul heald on to once i would have gotten know where

i see this every day if your white you are a true brother if your black or some one like me you are a flake

endtime tried to cast me out of the body endtime feels i am a flake endtime is the only one who hears from god

is endtime a white man ? to tell me who is yugoslavian i need to take on his jesus becaue the jesus i have accepted is a flake and only endtime has all the answers


good one endtime





Damo

When the Great Tribulation comes all Christians no matter what their denomination will come under the radar of the antichrist. In that day you will be martyred and persecuted for claiming that God is come in the flesh as Jesus Christ and died to pay for our sins and bring salvation. Whether or not the bread and the wine is actually the body and blood of Christ, or only symbolically the blood and body of Christ will not even factor in the minds of them who are doing the persecuting.
All of us who confess to the orthodox creeds of Christianity will need to prepare for these dastardly days ahead prayerfully and watchfully

Endtime is Jewish Damo.

The whole world will go through the great tribulation Damo.

When we (the witnesses of the Lord) remove the water from earth.

Then those who live by faith will shine like the firmament.

The man of sin who patronizes Christ while living at the beast's table, will fall and never rise again until the end of the thousand year reign.

Galatians 3
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Revelation 11
3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth."
6 These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire.

Matthew 3
8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance,







.

the pope is a blasphemer.............he calls himself the Name of God............HOLY FATHER.........John 17

every local RCC priest calls himself Father,,,,,,,,,,,,they violate the word of God,,,,,,,,on purpose,,,,,,,to oppose Christ

the RCC is part of BABYLON THE GREAT

the RCC is far worse than the Judaizers in Galatians,,,,,,,,,,,,and Galatians plainly says that Judaizers are not saved

the RCC is described in Rev 17 and 18.............the final form of Babylon is the RCC......

.....the first form of Babylon was ........Cain killed Abel



IN THE RCC:?
where is the simplicity of our Freedom in Christ?............where is the simplicity of the Gospel?.........the RCC has added so much stuff to the Gospel......that it's no longer Christianity..........it's a perversion of Christianity

Mormon, JW, Branch Davidian, RCC, Judaizer, OSAS, Calvinism, etc.........are perversions of Christianity

thank you for telling me who you are now can we focus in our groups we belong to and take the real gospel chirst preached to those who have not yet heard the true gospel christ preached

as i said endtime i am not your enemy i am a brother god shows no favortism so why should i judge some one because they dont have the same skin color as i do ?


this is why i jumped on you endtime when you tried to cast me out of the body i have had this hapen a lot that is why i had put depends on color and your religon today their is a pecking order and i see pastors judge guys like my self harshly while they accept those who have the same skin color as them selves if you dont have the same skin color like the pastor and his members you wil get no where only white man gets ahead


this is what i dont like and its un called for


i wil not pounce on you or wil i run you down we should be able to get on with out you trying to cast me out of the body




Damo

Amen dennis mann

And one of the worst perversions that they produced was in developing the trinity doctrine and threaten the translators with death if they didn't submit.

This is why it is so important for everyone who would name the name of the Lord to ask God for His Spirit and not take the Lord for granted. Ask and keep asking.






.

The Papists refer to themselves as..

AN'TI, n. [Gr. See Ante.]

...in place of.
Webster's 1828 Dictionary


Antichrist.

In place of Christ...

"[W]e hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty."

--POPE LEO XIII

quoting THE GREAT ENCYCLICAL LETTERS OF POPE LEO XIII
p. 304, Benziger Brothers (1903)

VIC'AR, n. [L. vicarius, from vicis]
...a substitute in office.
Webster's 1828 Dictionary

Vicar of Christ.

A substitute Christ...

"For the Roman pontiff (pope), by reason of his office as VICAR OF CHRIST, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal POWER over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise UNHINDERED."


CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, 1994, P. 254 #882

"We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely NECESSARY FOR the SALVATION of every human creature to be SUBJECT TO THE ROMAN PONTIFF (POPE)."

--POPE BONIFACE VIII, BULL UNUN SANCTUM, 1302

Charles Spurgeon had this to say about it..

"It is the bounden duty of every Christian to pray against Antichrist, and as to what Antichrist is no sane man ought to raise a question. If it be not the Popery in the Church of Rome there is nothing in the world that can be called by that name. It wounds Christ, robs Christ of His glory, puts sacramental efficacy in the place of His atonement, and lifts a piece of bread in the place of the Saviour....If we pray against it, because it is against Him, we shall love the persons though we hate their errors; we shall love their souls, though we loathe and detest their dogmas....

C. H. Spurgeon

" Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time."
1 John 2:18


Jude

This is already happening around the world as we speak, it is not a future event. There is more countries than the Usa or Canada.

....but he can help us understand what happened in the History of the Church long before we were here, and could not witness those things in person.

As far as the RCC inventing the Trinity Doctrine, the concept of God existing as the father, the son, and The Holy Spirit is a very clear and consise teaching throughout the New Testament, and especially in the Book of John. Any group that denies that Jesus was God in human form, is a cult.

CHAPTER I
History of Christian Martyrs to the First General Persecutions

Under Nero

Christ our Savior, in the Gospel of St. Matthew, hearing the confession of Simon Peter, who, first of all other, openly acknowledged Him to be the Son of God, and perceiving the secret hand of His Father therein, called him (alluding to his name) a rock, upon which rock He would build His Church so strong that the gates of hell should not prevail against it. In which words three things are to be noted: First, that Christ will have a Church in this world. Secondly, that the same Church should mightily be impugned, not only by the world, but also by the uttermost strength and powers of all hell. And, thirdly, that the same Church, notwithstanding the uttermost of the devil and all his malice, should continue.

Which prophecy of Christ we see wonderfully to be verified, insomuch that the whole course of the Church to this day may seem nothing else but a verifying of the said prophecy. First, that Christ hath set up a Church, needeth no declaration. Secondly, what force of princes, kings, monarchs, governors, and rulers of this world, with their subjects, publicly and privately, with all their strength and cunning, have bent themselves against this Church! And, thirdly, how the said Church, all this notwithstanding, hath yet endured and holden its own! What storms and tempests it hath overpast, wondrous it is to behold: for the more evident declaration whereof, I have addressed this present history, to the end, first, that the wonderful works of God in His Church might appear to His glory; also that, the continuance and proceedings of the Church, from time to time, being set forth, more knowledge and experience may redound thereby, to the profit of the reader and edification of Christian faith.

As it is not our business to enlarge upon our Savior's history, either before or after His crucifixion, we shall only find it necessary to remind our readers of the discomfiture of the Jews by His subsequent resurrection. Although one apostle had betrayed Him; although another had denied Him, under the solemn sanction of an oath; and although the rest had forsaken Him, unless we may except "the disciple who was known unto the high-priest"; the history of His resurrection gave a new direction to all their hearts, and, after the mission of the Holy Spirit, imparted new confidence to their minds. The powers with which they were endued emboldened them to proclaim His name, to the confusion of the Jewish rulers, and the astonishment of Gentile proselytes.

I. St. Stephen

St. Stephen suffered the next in order. His death was occasioned by the faithful manner in which he preached the Gospel to the betrayers and murderers of Christ. To such a degree of madness were they excited, that they cast him out of the city and stoned him to death. The time when he suffered is generally supposed to have been at the passover which succeeded to that of our Lord's crucifixion, and to the era of his ascension, in the following spring.

Upon this a great persecution was raised against all who professed their belief in Christ as the Messiah, or as a prophet. We are immediately told by St. Luke, that "there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem;" and that "they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles."

About two thousand Christians, with Nicanor, one of the seven deacons, suffered martyrdom during the "persecution that arose about Stephen."
II. James the Great

The next martyr we meet with, according to St. Luke, in the History of the Apsotles' Acts, was James the son of Zebedee, the elder brother of John, and a relative of our Lord; for his mother Salome was cousin-german to the Virgin Mary. It was not until ten years after the death of Stephen that the second martyrdom took place; for no sooner had Herod Agrippa been appointed governor of Judea, than, with a view to ingratiate himself with them, he raised a sharp persecution against the Christians, and determined to make an effectual blow, by striking at their leaders. The account given us by an eminent primitive writer, Clemens Alexandrinus, ought not to be overlooked; that, as James was led to the place of martyrdom, his accuser was brought to repent of his conduct by the apostle's extraordinary courage and undauntedness, and fell down at his feet to request his pardon, professing himself a Christian, and resolving that James should not receive the crown of martyrdom alone. Hence they were both beheaded at the same time. Thus did the first apostolic martyr cheerfully and resolutely receive that cup, which he had told our Savior he was ready to drink. Timon and Parmenas suffered martyrdom about the same time; the one at Philippi, and the other in Macedonia. These events took place A.D. 44.
III. Philip

Was born at Bethsaida, in Galilee and was first called by the name of "disciple." He labored diligently in Upper Asia, and suffered martyrdom at Heliopolis, in Phrygia. He was scourged, thrown into prison, and afterwards crucified, A.D. 54.
IV. Matthew

Whose occupation was that of a toll-gatherer, was born at Nazareth. He wrote his gospel in Hebrew, which was afterwards translated into Greek by James the Less. The scene of his labors was Parthia, and Ethiopia, in which latter country he suffered martyrdom, being slain with a halberd in the city of Nadabah, A.D. 60.
V. James the Less

Is supposed by some to have been the brother of our Lord, by a former wife of Joseph. This is very doubtful, and accords too much with the Catholic superstition, that Mary never had any other children except our Savior. He was elected to the oversight of the churches of Jerusalem; and was the author of the Epistle ascribed to James in the sacred canon. At the age of ninety-four he was beat and stoned by the Jews; and finally had his brains dashed out with a fuller's club.
VI. Matthias

Of whom less is known than of most of the other disciples, was elected to fill the vacant place of Judas. He was stoned at Jerusalem and then beheaded.
VII. Andrew

Was the brother of Peter. He preached the gospel to many Asiatic nations; but on his arrival at Edessa he was taken and crucified on a cross, the two ends of which were fixed transversely in the ground. Hence the derivation of the term, St. Andrew's Cross.
VIII. St. Mark

Was born of Jewish parents of the tribe of Levi. He is supposed to have been converted to Christianity by Peter, whom he served as an amanuensis, and under whose inspection he wrote his Gospel in the Greek language. Mark was dragged to pieces by the people of Alexandria, at the great solemnity of Serapis their idol, ending his life under their merciless hands.
IX. Peter

Among many other saints, the blessed apostle Peter was condemned to death, and crucified, as some do write, at Rome; albeit some others, and not without cause, do doubt thereof. Hegesippus saith that Nero sought matter against Peter to put him to death; which, when the people perceived, they entreated Peter with much ado that he would fly the city. Peter, through their importunity at length persuaded, prepared himself to avoid. But, coming to the gate, he saw the Lord Christ come to meet him, to whom he, worshipping, said, "Lord, whither dost Thou go?" To whom He answered and said, "I am come again to be crucified." By this, Peter, perceiving his suffering to be understood, returned into the city. Jerome saith that he was crucified, his head being down and his feet upward, himself so requiring, because he was (he said) unworthy to be crucified after the same form and manner as the Lord was.
X. Paul

Paul, the apostle, who before was called Saul, after his great travail and unspeakable labors in promoting the Gospel of Christ, suffered also in this first persecution under Nero. Abdias, declareth that under his execution Nero sent two of his esquires, Ferega and Parthemius, to bring him word of his death. They, coming to Paul instructing the people, desired him to pray for them, that they might believe; who told them that shortly after they should believe and be baptised at His sepulcher. This done, the soldiers came and led him out of the city to the place of execution, where he, after his prayers made, gave his neck to the sword.
XI. Jude

The brother of James, was commonly called Thaddeus. He was crucified at Edessa, A.D. 72.
XII. Bartholomew

Preached in several countries, and having translated the Gospel of Matthew into the language of India, he propagated it in that country. He was at length cruelly beaten and then crucified by the impatient idolaters.
XIII. Thomas

Called Didymus, preached the Gospel in Parthia and India, where exciting the rage of the pagan priests, he was martyred by being thrust through with a spear.
XIV. Luke

The evangelist, was the author of the Gospel which goes under his name. He travelled with Paul through various countries, and is supposed to have been hanged on an olive tree, by the idolatrous priests of Greece.
XV. Simon

Surnamed Zelotes, preached the Gospel in Mauritania, Africa, and even in Britain, in which latter country he was crucified, A.D. 74.
XVI. John

The "beloved disciple," was brother to James the Great. The churches of Smyrna, Pergamos, Sardis, Philadelphia, Laodicea, and Thyatira, were founded by him. From Ephesus he was ordered to be sent to Rome, where it is affirmed he was cast into a cauldron of boiling oil. He escaped by miracle, without injury. Domitian afterwards banished him to the Isle of Patmos, where he wrote the Book of Revelation. Nerva, the successor of Domitian, recalled him. He was the only apostle who escaped a violent death.
XVII. Barnabas

Was of Cyprus, but of Jewish descent, his death is supposed to have taken place about A.D. 73.

And yet, notwithstanding all these continual persecutions and horrible punishments, the Church daily increased, deeply rooted in the doctrine of the apostles and of men apostolical, and watered plentously with the blood of saints.

FOX'S BOOK OF MARTYRS
CHAPTER II

The Ten Primitive Persecutions
The First Persecution, Under Nero, A.D. 67

The first persecution of the Church took place in the year 67, under Nero, the sixth emperor of Rome. This monarch reigned for the space of five years, with tolerable credit to himself, but then gave way to the greatest extravagancy of temper, and to the most atrocious barbarities. Among other diabolical whims, he ordered that the city of Rome should be set on fire, which order was executed by his officers, guards, and servants. While the imperial city was in flames, he went up to the tower of Macaenas, played upon his harp, sung the song of the burning of Troy, and openly declared that 'he wished the ruin of all things before his death.' Besides the noble pile, called the Circus, many other palaces and houses were consumed; several thousands perished in the flames, were smothered in the smoke, or buried beneath the ruins.

This dreadful conflagration continued nine days; when Nero, finding that his conduct was greatly blamed, and a severe odium cast upon him, determined to lay the whole upon the Christians, at once to excuse himself, and have an opportunity of glutting his sight with new cruelties. This was the occasion of the first persecution; and the barbarities exercised on the Christians were such as even excited the commiseration of the Romans themselves. Nero even refined upon cruelty, and contrived all manner of punishments for the Christians that the most infernal imagination could design. In particular, he had some sewed up in skins of wild beasts, and then worried by dogs until they expired; and others dressed in shirts made stiff with wax, fixed to axletrees, and set on fire in his gardens, in order to illuminate them. This persecution was general throughout the whole Roman Empire; but it rather increased than diminished the spirit of Christianity. In the course of it, St. Paul and St. Peter were martyred.

To their names may be added, Erastus, chamberlain of Corinth; Aristarchus, the Macedonian, and Trophimus, an Ephesians, converted by St. Paul, and fellow-laborer with him, Joseph, commonly called Barsabas, and Ananias, bishop of Damascus; each of the Seventy.




The Second Persecution, Under Domitian, A.D. 81

The emperor Domitian, who was naturally inclined to cruelty, first slew his brother, and then raised the second persecution against the Christians. In his rage he put to death some of the Roman senators, some through malice; and others to confiscate their estates. He then commanded all the lineage of David be put to death.

Among the numerous martyrs that suffered during this persecution was Simeon, bishop of Jerusalem, who was crucified; and St. John, who was boiled in oil, and afterward banished to Patmos. Flavia, the daughter of a Roman senator, was likewise banished to Pontus; and a law was made, "That no Christian, once brought before the tribunal, should be exempted from punishment without renouncing his religion."

A variety of fabricated tales were, during this reign, composed in order to injure the Christians. Such was the infatuation of the pagans, that, if famine, pestilence, or earthquakes afflicted any of the Roman provinces, it was laid upon the Christians. These persecutions among the Christians increased the number of informers and many, for the sake of gain, swore away the lives of the innocent.

Another hardship was, that, when any Christians were brought before the magistrates, a test oath was proposed, when, if they refused to take it, death was pronounced against them; and if they confessed themselves Christians, the sentence was the same.

The following were the most remarkable among the numerous martyrs who suffered during this persecution.

Dionysius, the Areopagite, was an Athenian by birth, and educated in all the useful and ornamental literature of Greece. He then travelled to Egypt to study astronomy, and made very particular observations on the great and supernatural eclipse, which happened at the time of our Savior's crucifixion.

The sanctity of his conversation and the purity of his manners recommended him so strongly to the Christians in general, that he was appointed bishop of Athens.

Nicodemus, a benevolent Christian of some distinction, suffered at Rome during the rage of Domitian's persecution.

Protasius and Gervasius were martyred at Milan.

Timothy was the celebrated disciple of St. Paul, and bishop of Ephesus, where he zealously governed the Church until A.D. 97. At this period, as the pagans were about to celebrate a feast called Catagogion, Timothy, meeting the procession, severely reproved them for their ridiculous idolatry, which so exasperated the people that they fell upon him with their clubs, and beat him in so dreadful a manner that he expired of the bruises two days later.

by the way....Foxes Book of Martyrs is an excellent book of personal testimonies. I, however, couldn't read it without getting emotional. There was a part about a family, where the parents were being forced to deny their faith, and when they refused, their children had their brains and skulls bashed....right in front of them. There was no end to the cruelty of the Beast!!!

He can't even do that. He "wasn't there" and his writing is hearsay writen in the fifteen hundreds and contrived from other resources that are here today.

The trinity is not a very clear consise teaching in the bible where as the words "and of the" are not in the original. The true writing says "baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. Making all of them "One".












.

if you dont like what jude is sharing and wanting to bring into this forum dont let pauls old spirit that was evident in paul destroy what jude wants to bring into this forum why should proffessing christians who hold on to pauls old spirit destroy what some one wants to say what jude leaves hear could bring some light it could even open some ones eyes


i notice today when it comes to proffessing christians their eyes are wide shut to subjects like this

jesus rattled pauls cage paul had everything was brought up in the old covenant ways new what he was talking about was liked by his mates he could speak in any synagogue with out being questioned he sat in the best seats was looked up to by his friends paul was very zealous he even casted his vote he hated the saints this was very evident in his life

i even see this today when it comes to proffessing christians who claim to be his followers whoes spirit is evident in your life is it pauls old spirit or is it gods spirit ?

when i talk to a proffessing christian i look for two things i dont want to know how wise you are i dont want to know what degrees you have i dont care if your grammer is good i dont really care if you have a certiificate of acheivment saying you have a ba

if i see pauls old spirit evident in your life i wil drill you


look at pauls conversion hear we have a man who was going out of his way to persecute the saints he was very educated soon as he encounters gods son not god he says who are you lord jesus responce i am jesus you are persecuting

the hate paul had once towards the saints is no longer evident but he was not trusted by some of the disciples and they had every right to not trust paul only a few disciples welcomed paul the others were not willing to welcome him


think how hard it would have been for paul the hate he showed to the saints he is now experiancing this him self by his so called mates paul use to be a pharisee endtime soon as his mates found out what happend to paul they wanted to kill him sevral young men vowed to do this but god made sure paul got out of harms way he spent most of his time in chains at one stage he spent 2yrs in one jail endtime he witnessed god do some amazing things around him like freeing him from jail prottecting him on the ship when it hit ground god gave paul the right words to say paul had a peace the pharisees never had he know experiances the hate he had once towards the saints

put your self in pauls shoes for one moment what would be going through your head if you were in his shoes would you be trying your hardest to keep your old friendships or would you let go off your old friends were you are hanging out with men you hated once trying out new things when he was being tried fetus said to paul you are out of your mind

also i see this with in endtime the hate paul had towards the saints is evident today with in the body if you say you want nothing to do with the old spirit paul had you are hated by the so called ones who say we are his followers


you can leave your favorit bible verses you like to hide behind but if i dont see gods spirit evident in your life i wil as i said dril you


if you cant handle what jude is leaving endtme dont get involved but please dont run jude down or try to throw what he is leaving off its course to were we focus on what you have to say

i use the foxes book of martyrs and i use what brother yun experianced heavenly man sold out when it hit the christian book stores endtime have you read the heavenly man ? if so do you dare say what brother yun experianced is not true because he is not a true follower ?

try not to let pauls old spirit come out in this thread of judes were you end up showing the same hate paul showed to the saints

so then you have seen what i have seen endtime are you a oneness believer and do you belive what jesus said in john 17 when he prayed over the disciples ?



Damo

Sadly true, however I do not believe that the Great Tribulation is upon us yet which was the topic I was commenting on. Its interesting that you raise the point about the persecuted church. I read the Voice of the Martyrs and it is extremely alarming what is going on around the world. I have heard it said that there are more christians being martyred today than ever before in history. I have little doubt that this is true.

It is interesting to note that the persecuted church in China is quite a phenomonen. Protestants will tell you with delight that when they go into china they found a huge underground Christian church. What they don't tell you is that these christians almost totally isolated from the world for generations have a predominantly catholic belief system. A great many of them are in formal union with the Catholic church and there is even a cardinal in china who cannot attend the normal cardinal functions of the vatican because of the persecution he is suffering in china. The last pope canonised many martyred chinese catholics. What is however not understood is that the persecuted church which has no formal union with the catholic church is not in schism with the catholic church but is simply unable to communicate with the church, because of restriction of travel and communication and persecution.

In 1995 the Chinese government tried to prevent that annual pilgrimage to the shrine of our Lady of China at Dong Lu. 100,000 Catholic chinese braved the roadblocks, physical abuse and other restrictions to attend the mass.
They were rewarded with a wonderful miracle to encourage them in their faith.
http://www.cardinalkungfoundation.org/articles/miracle.htm


As Jesus said. "Signs shall surely follow them that believe"

Its a wonderful thing Christians have a mother in heaven which they can go to for comfort when they face persecution. Let us thank God that he raised up Mary into heaven and that he uses her so mightily to encourage Christians, in much the same way as he used the Angel of the Lord in the Old Testament.

These great miracles are a witness to the the world that God is with his people and confirming their beliefs.
Hebrews 2:4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts [2] of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

If it is God's will to glorify Mary and use her to do mighty deeds for the encouragement of the saints then who are we to argue?

No doubt these wonderful martyrs of the faith will one day be added to the Book of Martyrs but I can guarantee it won't be Foxes book.

The Third Persecution, Under Trajan, A.D. 108

In the third persecution Pliny the Second, a man learned and famous, seeing the lamentable slaughter of Christians, and moved therewith to pity, wrote to Trajan, certifying him that there were many thousands of them daily put to death, of which none did any thing contrary to the Roman laws worthy of persecution. "The whole account they gave of their crime or error (whichever it is to be called) amounted only to this-viz. that they were accustomed on a stated day to meet before daylight, and to repeat together a set form of prayer to Christ as a God, and to bind themselves by an obligation-not indeed to commit wickedness; but, on the contrary-never to commit theft, robbery, or adultery, never to falsify their word, never to defraud any man: after which it was their custom to separate, and reassemble to partake in common of a harmless meal."

In this persecution suffered the blessed martyr, Ignatius, who is held in famous reverence among very many. This Ignatius was appointed to the bishopric of Antioch next after Peter in succession. Some do say, that he, being sent from Syria to Rome, because he professed Christ, was given to the wild beasts to be devoured. It is also said of him, that when he passed through Asia, being under the most strict custody of his keepers, he strengthened and confirmed the churches through all the cities as he went, both with his exhortations and preaching of the Word of God. Accordingly, having come to Smyrna, he wrote to the Church at Rome, exhorting them not to use means for his deliverance from martyrdom, lest they should deprive him of that which he most longed and hoped for. "Now I begin to be a disciple. I care for nothing, of visible or invisible things, so that I may but win Christ. Let fire and the cross, let the companies of wild beasts, let breaking of bones and tearing of limbs, let the grinding of the whole body, and all the malice of the devil, come upon me; be it so, only may I win Christ Jesus!" And even when he was sentenced to be thrown to the beasts, such as the burning desire that he had to suffer, that he spake, what time he heard the lions roaring, saying: "I am the wheat of Christ: I am going to be ground with the teeth of wild beasts, that I may be found pure bread."

Trajan being succeeded by Adrian, the latter continued this third persecution with as much severity as his predecessor. About this time Alexander, bishop of Rome, with his two deacons, were martyred; as were Quirinus and Hernes, with their families;

Zenon, a Roman nobleman, and about ten thousand other Christians.

In Mount Ararat many were crucified, crowned with thorns, and spears run into their sides, in imitation of Christ's passion. Eustachius, a brave and successful Roman commander, was by the emperor ordered to join in an idolatrous sacrifice to celebrate some of his own victories; but his faith (being a Christian in his heart) was so much greater than his vanity, that he nobly refused it. Enraged at the denial, the ungrateful emperor forgot the service of this skilful commander, and ordered him and his whole family to be martyred.

At the martyrdom of Faustines and Jovita, brothers and citizens of Brescia, their torments were so many, and their patience so great, that Calocerius, a pagan, beholding them, was struck with admiration, and exclaimed in a kind of ecstasy, "Great is the God of the Christians!" for which he was apprehended, and suffered a similar fate.

Many other similar cruelties and rigors were exercised against the Christians, until Quadratus, bishop of Athens, made a learned apology in their favor before the emperor, who happened to be there and Aristides, a philosopher of the same city, wrote an elegant epistle, which caused Adrian to relax in his severities, and relent in their favor.

Adrian dying A.D. 138, was succeeded by Antoninus Pius, one of the most amiable monarchs that ever reigned, and who stayed the persecutions against the Christians.

Haven't you already read, John Foxes book of martyers Damo?

All anyone needs is the teachings of Christ and his example to follow to salvation.

John Foxes book of martyers written in aprox 1560 Is only a comentary of other writings such as those of Josephus Flavius that may or may not be true.

Remember what I told you about the spirit of the flesh judging the Spirit of God Damo?

It doesn't work for any good thing.








.

The Fourth Persecution, Under Marcus Aurelius Antoninus, A.D. 162

Marcus Aurelius, followed about the year of our Lord 161, a man of nature more stern and severe; and, although in study of philosophy and in civil government no less commendable, yet, toward the Christians sharp and fierce; by whom was moved the fourth persecution.

The cruelties used in this persecution were such that many of the spectators shuddered with horror at the sight, and were astonished at the intrepidity of the sufferers. Some of the martyrs were obliged to pass, with their already wounded feet, over thorns, nails, sharp shells, etc. upon their points, others were scourged until their sinews and veins lay bare, and after suffering the most excruciating tortures that could be devised, they were destroyed by the most terrible deaths.

Germanicus, a young man, but a true Christian, being delivered to the wild beasts on account of his faith, behaved with such astonishing courage that several pagans became converts to a faith which inspired such fortitude.

Polycarp, the venerable bishop of Smyrna, hearing that persons were seeking for him, escaped, but was discovered by a child. After feasting the guards who apprehended him, he desired an hour in prayer, which being allowed, he prayed with such fervency, that his guards repented that they had been instrumental in taking him. He was, however, carried before the proconsul, condemned, and burnt in the market place.

The proconsul then urged him, saying, "Swear, and I will release thee;--reproach Christ."

Polycarp answered, "Eighty and six years have I served him, and he never once wronged me; how then shall I blaspheme my King, Who hath saved me?" At the stake to which he was only tied, but not nailed as usual, as he assured them he should stand immovable, the flames, on their kindling the fagots, encircled his body, like an arch, without touching him; and the executioner, on seeing this, was ordered to pierce him with a sword, when so great a quantity of blood flowed out as extinguished the fire. But his body, at the instigation of the enemies of the Gospel, especially Jews, was ordered to be consumed in the pile, and the request of his friends, who wished to give it Christian burial, rejected. They nevertheless collected his bones and as much of his remains as possible, and caused them to be decently interred.

Metrodorus, a minister, who preached boldly, and Pionius, who made some excellent apologies for the Christian faith, were likewise burnt. Carpus and Papilus, two worthy Christians, and Agatonica, a pious woman, suffered martyrdom at Pergamopolis, in Asia.

Felicitatis, an illustrious Roman lady, of a considerable family, and the most shining virtues, was a devout Christian. She had seven sons, whom she had educated with the most exemplary piety.

Januarius, the eldest, was scourged, and pressed to death with weights; Felix and Philip, the two next had their brains dashed out with clubs; Silvanus, the fourth, was murdered by being thrown from a precipice; and the three younger sons, Alexander, Vitalis, and Martial, were beheaded. The mother was beheaded with the same sword as the three latter.

Justin, the celebrated philosopher, fell a martyr in this persecution. He was a native of Neapolis, in Samaria, and was born A.D. 103. Justin was a great lover of truth, and a universal scholar; he investigated the Stoic and Peripatetic philosophy, and attempted the Pythagorean; but the behavior of our of its professors disgusting him, he applied himself to the Platonic, in which he took great delight. About the year 133, when he was thirty years of age, he became a convert to Christianity, and then, for the first time, perceived the real nature of truth.

He wrote an elegant epistle to the Gentiles, and employed his talents in convincing the Jews of the truth of the Christian rites; spending a great deal of time in travelling, until he took up his abode in Rome, and fixed his habitation upon the Viminal mount.

He kept a public school, taught many who afterward became great men, and wrote a treatise to confuse heresies of all kinds. As the pagans began to treat the Christians with great severity, Justin wrote his first apology in their favor. This piece displays great learning and genius, and occasioned the emperor to publish an edict in favor of the Christians.

Soon after, he entered into frequent contests with Crescens, a person of a vicious life and conversation, but a celebrated cynic philosopher; and his arguments appeared so powerful, yet disgusting to the cynic, that he resolved on, and in the sequel accomplished, his destruction.

The second apology of Justin, upon certain severities, gave Crescens the cynic an opportunity of prejudicing the emperor against the writer of it; upon which Justin, and six of his companions, were apprehended. Being commanded to sacrifice to the pagan idols, they refused, and were condemned to be scourged, and then beheaded; which sentence was executed with all imaginable severity.

Several were beheaded for refusing to sacrifice to the image of Jupiter; in particular Concordus, a deacon of the city of Spolito.

Some of the restless northern nations having risen in arms against Rome, the emperor marched to encounter them. He was, however, drawn into an ambuscade, and dreaded the loss of his whole army. Enveloped with mountains, surrounded by enemies, and perishing with thirst, the pagan deities were invoked in vain; when the men belonging to the militine, or thundering legion, who were all Christians, were commanded to call upon their God for succor. A miraculous deliverance immediately ensued; a prodigious quantity of rain fell, which, being caught by the men, and filling their dykes, afforded a sudden and astonishing relief. It appears that the storm which miraculously flashed in the face of the enemy so intimidated them, that part deserted to the Roman army; the rest were defeated, and the revolted provinces entirely recovered.

This affair occasioned the persecution to subside for some time, at least in those parts immediately under the inspection of the emperor; but we find that it soon after raged in France, particularly at Lyons, where the tortures to which many of the Christians were put, almost exceed the powers of description.

The principal of these martyrs were Vetius Agathus, a young man; Blandina, a Christian lady, of a weak constitution; Sanctus, a deacon of Vienna; red hot plates of brass were placed upon the tenderest parts of his body; Biblias, a weak woman, once an apostate. Attalus, of Pergamus; and Pothinus, the venerable bishop of Lyons, who was ninety years of age. Blandina, on the day when she and the three other champions were first brought into the amphitheater, she was suspended on a piece of wood fixed in the ground, and exposed as food for the wild beasts; at which time, by her earnest prayers, she encouraged others. But none of the wild beasts would touch her, so that she was remanded to prison. When she was again produced for the third and last time, she was accompanied by Ponticus, a youth of fifteen, and the constancy of their faith so enraged the multitude that neither the sex of the one nor the youth of the other were respected, being exposed to all manner of punishments and tortures. Being strengthened by Blandina, he persevered unto death; and she, after enduring all the torments heretofore mentioned, was at length slain with the sword.

When the Christians, upon these occasions, received martyrdom, they were ornamented, and crowned with garlands of flowers; for which they, in heaven, received eternal crowns of glory.

It has been said that the lives of the early Christians consisted of "persecution above ground and prayer below ground." Their lives are expressed by the Coliseum and the catacombs. Beneath Rome are the excavations which we call the catacombs, whivch were at once temples and tombs. The early Church of Rome might well be called the Church of the Catacombs. There are some sixty catacombs near Rome, in which some six hundred miles of galleries have been traced, and these are not all. These galleries are about eight feet high and from three to five feet wide, containing on either side several rows of long, low, horizontal recesses, one above another like berths in a ship. In these the dead bodies were placed and the front closed, either by a single marble slab or several great tiles laid in mortar. On these slabs or tiles, epitaphs or symbols are graved or painted. Both pagans and Christians buried their dead in these catacombs. When the Christian graves have been opened the skeletons tell their own terrible tale. Heads are found severed from the body, ribs and shoulder blades are broken, bones are often calcined from fire. But despite the awful story of persecution that we may read here, the inscriptions breathe forth peace and joy and triumph. Here are a few:

"Here lies Marcia, put to rest in a dream of peace."

"Lawrence to his sweetest son, borne away of angels."

"Victorious in peace and in Christ."

"Being called away, he went in peace."

Remember when reading these inscriptions the story the skeletons tell of persecution, of torture, and of fire.

But the full force of these epitaphs is seen when we contrast them with the pagan epitaphs, such as:

"Live for the present hour, since we are sure of nothing else."

"I lift my hands against the gods who took me away at the age of twenty though I had done no harm."

"Once I was not. Now I am not. I know nothing about it, and it is no concern of mine."

"Traveler, curse me not as you pass, for I am in darkness and cannot answer."

The most frequent Christian symbols on the walls of the catacombs, are, the good shepherd with the lamb on his shoulder, a ship under full sail, harps, anchors, crowns, vines, and above all the fish.

yes and i see nothing wrong with john foxes book of martyrs i have also others in my collection and i have the heavenly man that i read often

what is wrong with what jude is wanting to discuss i notice this with this forum you only get accepted if you say talk on what pro life christians have to say

and if you are accepted your topic does not get derailed or do you gang up on the new member

guys hear discuss if hitler was a jew guys hear talk about the rapture a lot members hear are know talking on obama

you also have topics set up that bring the body down so you tel me what is so wrong with discussing john foxs book of martrys

christians today have their head in the sand lights are on but no one is home


you have excubitor leaving us long posts saying how much he cares for the catholic church backing up the catholics who are being persecuted in china but wil not say one word when it comes to the true christians being persecuted in china like brother yun he supports the pope he even ups you if you bring down the priests and soon as you remind him what the priests did to the boys in their care he leaves you long posts up building the catholic church he tels you how mary watches over the chines catholics who are being persectuted

while brother yun and christians i know of are having to be care full and know i hear he is talking to a catholic priest i wonder if he knows much about the catholic priest he is talking i wonder if this catholic priest has some hidden sins he is holding on to and i wonder how many young boys has this priest raped we wil never know because excubitor loves the cstholic church so much he goes out of his way to get us al to come back to the true church were we bail the catholic church out so the pope can go on his fancy expensive trips show his bullet proof car off to the world show us the young people having fun on his ship and then goes for a fancy trip on his private plane sits in the best seats is seen with the top guys like bush were george bush picks him up this has never been done


i know what you are saying but i am saying give this brother a go he is new to the forum you dont want to turn him of or have him leave this forum what do you know about this brother have you welcomed him have you asked him how he is have you said do you need prayer brother jude ?


what i said is not an attack against you what i am saying is to how this topic of judes has turned out since ex got involved by saying dont force me to debate yet he comes in and trys to tell us how its only the catholics in those under ground caves who are being perectuted ex has his head in the sand he worships the idols god warned us about god hates idol worshipers

we can discuss this topic with out jumping on this new brother do you want to see new members coming to this forum or do you want to see where these new members comming hear for fellowisp are turned off ex can leave if he does not like what i have to say concering to the way the catholic church has lied to its members he is now hear by him self his old catholic mates have left he wants this to be a catholic forum were we worship mary talk about mary and the doctrines he is holding on to

history we can learn from what john has to say so no one else goes through it is this not what the teachers teach about what hitler did to the jews to our kids to were its passed on and on to the next generation do you want to see an end to were christians can live in harmony were they are not being persecuted even though jesus warns us this wil happen to us who truely follow him were we die to the ways of this world and pick up our cross and follow him

why should ex force his oppions on to us endtime


many proffessing pastors dont dare tell new christians or older christians they wil be persecuted they preach a wishy washy gospel and when persection comes those who have not been told the truth how wil they react would they say this was not in the contract i signed my pastor did not tell me this would happen to me or my wife or my kids why would this pastor lie to us when its evident in the new testament to what happend to those who followed jesus instead of following the pharisees


should we not preach the truth were we say to a new brother or sister this is what is going to happen to you now that you are a follower of christ why preach a wishy washy gospel when we should be preaching the turth


and remember what i said about pauls old spirit hating the saints ? its evident in this forum and in the broader community and around the world pauls old spirit is evident christians just dont want to rebuke what i see unfolding those who hold onto pauls old ways hate guys like my self who want nothing to do with what paul use to hold on to

why cant i be me why should i alow pauls old ways to be evident in my life wher i hate you instead of putting the hand out and haging out with new brothers and sisters it would have been hard for paul being a pharisee to were he supports the saints he once hated it would have been a shock encountering jesus to were jesus rattles pauls cage and says it is me you are persecuting paul the hate he had towards the saints he know experiances the same hate he had to were his life is know in danger no longer is he sitting in the best seats no longer is he honored like he was when he was a pharisee he is now feeling their hate towards him his mates hated him and the disciples who did not trust paul had every right to not trust paul i would not have wanted to be in his shoes yet he teaches us not to carry his old ways he tels me not to hate the true followers of christ be all i can be were i am winning the lost over






Damo

Sure it doesn't do any good, they have gone to be with Jesus but its not as if they vanished, they are waiting for us as we speak.

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

We will get to see our brothers and sisters nieces and nephews in due time the time described in verse 11

Jude